Enhancing An O-Ring Seal?

[(PeteCresswell)]

I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
--
Pete Cresswell

[tra...@optonline.net]

Silicone *lube* is what is typically used on O rings for PVC unions
and such.

[Pete C.]

Silicone grease. You can get it at your local SCUBA shop since it's used
on O-rings in UW camera gear, lights, etc.

[willshak]

I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
any of them.
The pool was installed in 1986.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

[willshak]

willshak wrote:
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
>> rains.
>>
>> The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.
>>
>> Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
>> disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
>> resistance to water penetration?
>> My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
>> o-ring.
>
> I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
> years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
> any of them.
> The pool was installed in 1986.

PS. I take apart the pool filter every Autumn and store it inside for
the Winter, then reinstall it in the late Spring.

[Nate Nagel]

On 05/25/2013 10:39 AM, willshak wrote:
> willshak wrote:
>> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>>> I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
>>> rains.
>>>
>>> The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.
>>>
>>> Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
>>> disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
>>> resistance to water penetration? My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with
>>> my luck, that would attack the
>>> o-ring.
>>
>> I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
>> years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
>> any of them.
>> The pool was installed in 1986.
>
> PS. I take apart the pool filter every Autumn and store it inside for
> the Winter, then reinstall it in the late Spring.
>
>
>

Some kind of grease is the answer, the issue is that vaseline might be
perfectly safe for some kinds of rubber and not others, the same may be
true of silicone grease (likely one or the other will work though.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[George]

The classic and well proven thing to use for such applications is
silicone grease. It is inorganic (obviously) and won't attack rubber.

[nestork]

Pete:

Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.

Here, I wrote up a blurb about O-rings while I was posting on a board
before I came here. Lemme find that write-up.




--
nestork

[DD_BobK]

PC-

Most of the comments thus far have helpful.

I would suggest avoiding the use of vaseline & stick with the silicone
lubes, valve stem lube, etc (compatible with rubber O-rings).

Depending on the exact design of the camera & O-ring sealing
means.... moisture could be getting in through a different route.
Another thing to consider...sometimes over tightening can reduce
sealing effectiveness.

cheers
Bob

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per nestork:

>Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
>the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
>O-ring in for a better seal.

In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.

I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails, I'll
just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
--
Pete Cresswell

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:43:12 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

silicone grease - won't attack the rubber, won't glue it together,
and seals against moisture intrusion. Can't remermber the brand I use
- but it is a food-grade grease used in food production lines.

[nestork]

(PeteCresswell);3068228 Wrote:
> Per nestork:-

> Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can
> take
> the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger

> O-ring in for a better seal.-

>
> In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
> custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.
>
> I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails,
> I'll
> just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
> hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
> --
> Pete Cresswell

Can you use a plumbing sealer like teflon tape there? Plumber's putty?
Plumber's putty that isn't too too old is easy to remove with a Q-tip
dipped in mineral spirits.




--
nestork

[nestork]

nestork;3068331 Wrote:
> Danny:
>
> No. If nobody knows, then go with nitrile rubber because it's the most
> widely used rubber for making O-rings, and so not only will every O-ring
> you ever need to buy be available and in stock in nitrile rubber at any
> place that sells O-rings, but nitrile rubber O-rings are very much
> cheaper than any other kind of rubber O-ring. An O-ring that costs 12
> cents in nitrile rubber will cost 2 dollars in EPDM rubber, and it's not
> because EPDM rubber will last 20 times as long. It's because there's 20
> nitrile rubber O-rings made and sold for every EPDM rubber O-ring made
> and sold, and it's mass production and greater availability from
> competitors that brings down the cost of nitrile rubber O-rings.
>
> Read my post in the thread by PeteCresswell entitled "Enhancing an
> O-ring Seal" just about 10 threads below yours. That will explain
> everything you need to know about O-rings.
>
> Maybe print off that post and show it to the manager of any place that
> sell's O-rings in your area to get his comment.

I looked at the diagram for the pool pump you posted. In my experience,
that large and small O-ring together shouldn't cost any more than $2 or
$3 in nitrile at any shop that sells O-rings. The manufacturer will
charge you $25 for those two O-rings as a repair "kit", but only people
that are scared to buy anything but OEM repair parts would ever pay that
much. Maybe just take your old O-rings down to any place that
specializes in pneumatic and hydraulic seals, and they'll size the
O-rings for you. EVERY O-ring meant for plumbing applications I've ever
come across has been 70 durometer hardness, and so if you buy 70
durometer nitrile rubber O-rings to replace what you have, they should
work fine for you.




--
nestork

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The "o-ring" on an underwater camera case is not a round o-ring you
can readilly get a replacement for - it is generally a pretty long
o-ring formed to fit the perimeter of the case.. And no dental pick
required to remove it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:24:41 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

The silicone grease WILL do the job unless the o-ring is badly
deteriorated.

[Oren]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:49:20 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> silicone grease - won't attack the rubber, won't glue it together,
>and seals against moisture intrusion. Can't remermber the brand I use
>- but it is a food-grade grease used in food production lines.

"plumber's grease" (silicone - food grade)

Found at HD or other locations under different brand names.

[Oren]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 00:52:20 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>
>I looked at the diagram for the pool pump you posted. In my experience,
>that large and small O-ring together shouldn't cost any more than $2 or
>$3 in nitrile at any shop that sells O-rings. The manufacturer will
>charge you $25 for those two O-rings as a repair "kit", but only people
>that are scared to buy anything but OEM repair parts would ever pay that
>much.

Yes, this is true to some degree. You can also spend hours on end
"learning" about O-rings.

You'll note the kit for his pump includes the ceramic seal, etc. What
he needs to stop the pump leak, all in one package.

If I had a deadline, I'd get the kit, fix the leak and be done with
the project. Study the history of O-rings later.

"Shit or get off the pot", as they saying goes.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I wouldn't go close to my camera case with plumbers putty!!. You can
do what you like with yours. Silicone Grease has been the standard
solution for this problem with divers and photographers for almost 30
years (possibly even longer) - because it works and does not cause
other problems. It is very easy to purchase, use, and remove.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per cl...@snyder.on.ca:

>Silicone Grease has been the standard
>solution for this problem with divers and photographers for almost 30
>years (possibly even longer) - because it works and does not cause
>other problems. It is very easy to purchase, use, and remove.

I'm going to Home Depot today.

Hit the local hardware store, and could not find anything explicitly
"Grease". A lot of "Silicone Compound" stuff - and I even have a tube
of that already..... but I'm guessing there is some significant diff
with "Compound" vs "Grease". In fact, the stuff I have looks more like
lubricating gel that grease.
--
Pete Cresswell

[notbob]

On 2013-05-25, (PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:

> My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
> o-ring.

Use a silicon grease made for sealing against liquids. Fountain pen
owners use it to seal ink reservoirs. You can buy it in small
amounts that won't break the bank:

http://www.isellpens.com/product_p/a-silgrease.htm

Inspect the oring with a minimum 5X magnifier for excess or negative
casting flash. Make sure the oring is does not have cuts or defects.
Inspect the oring grooves for scratches or dings. You can smooth 'em
out with some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. If all is well, grease 'er
up and reassemble.

nb

[croy]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:43:12 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
<x...@y.Invalid> wrote:

For most o-ring situations, the preferred lube is
"high-vacuum silicone grease". But it is expensive.
Plumber's silicone grease is a good substitute.

But before you goop things up, keep in mind that the elegant
o-ring is dependent on clean, smooth, scratch-free surfaces.
And the o-ring has to be pristine. Never use metal tools to
dig an o-ring out its home. A strong hand lens and strong
lighting are essential for inspecting o-rings and
o-ring-groove sealing surfaces. The slightest scratch
across the surface, or the slightest nick in the o-ring
itself can be un-fixable with lube. An eyelash can cause a
serious leak!

--
croy

[croy]

On 27 May 2013 14:29:43 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com>
wrote:

>On 2013-05-25, (PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>
>> My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
>> o-ring.
>
>Use a silicon grease made for sealing against liquids. Fountain pen
>owners use it to seal ink reservoirs. You can buy it in small
>amounts that won't break the bank:
>
>http://www.isellpens.com/product_p/a-silgrease.htm

Thanks for that link!

--
croy

[Oren]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 12:49:48 -0700, croy <ha...@spam.invalid.net>
wrote:

>But before you goop things up, keep in mind that the elegant
>o-ring is dependent on clean, smooth, scratch-free surfaces.
>And the o-ring has to be pristine. Never use metal tools to
>dig an o-ring out its home. A strong hand lens and strong
>lighting are essential for inspecting o-rings and
>o-ring-groove sealing surfaces. The slightest scratch
>across the surface, or the slightest nick in the o-ring
>itself can be un-fixable with lube. An eyelash can cause a
>serious leak!

O-rings become deformed. In pools pumps, they may flatten on one side,
so not to seal. Then leak.

[nestork]

croy;3069351 Wrote:
>
> Never use metal tools to dig an o-ring out its home.
>

I and everyone I know uses metal dental picks to remove and re-install
rubber O-rings. I have been using metal dental picks to do that for
well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

What do you suggest using instead?




--
nestork

[notbob]

On 2013-05-27, nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

> well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

It's not the oring that might get dinged, it's the oring groove
surface becoming gouged. Plastic electronics adj tools shaped like a
flat blade screwdriver are much more practical and are easily
obtainable. This might not be so critical for something like a
waterproof seal, but for something like a high vacuum seal, it's
definitely critical.

nb

[chaniarts]

try a pool store.

[croy]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 23:19:59 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>
>croy;3069351 Wrote:
>>
>> Never use metal tools to dig an o-ring out its home.
>>
>
>I and everyone I know uses metal dental picks to remove and re-install
>rubber O-rings. I have been using metal dental picks to do that for
>well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

O-ring sealing surfaces are often rather soft materials,
such as mild-steel, brass, aluminum or plastic. A metal
tool can easily scratch such surfaces. I've seen skilled
workers successfully use a pick to remove an o-ring that is
not to be reused by deliberately piercing the o-ring itself,
and not touching the mating surfaces with the pick.

>What do you suggest using instead?

Forced air usually works for face seals. For external shaft
seals that are large enough, squeezing the ring around the
shaft until a portion of it pooches up enough to get fingers
or a chop-stick under it. Internal cylindrical o-rings can
be a bugger, indeed--if compressed air won't do it, and you
don't have wooden or plastic tools for the job, you're in a
really bad situation!

I've seen some high-durometer o-rings (TFE, etc.) where I
don't know how the mfr. got them on there in the first place
(but maybe used heat and a sled), and I know of no way to
get them off without destroying them. But I'm no expert
(guess I should have stated that part first!).

--
croy

[jwcra...@gmail.com]

Vegetable oil