worms in toilet
Dan Lanciani
appear in the upstairs toilet bowl. The toilet is never used, but I do
flush it occasionally to keep to water level up. The worms are a couple
of inches long and about 1/4" in diameter. They are quite active and seem
to respond to light. The first time I saw this I though it was a fluke (no
pun intended) and simply flushed them, adding some bleach. But a few weeks
later when I went to do some more work on the house, they were back. These
are earthworm-pink in color and stay under water. I have read about horse
hair worms but these seem thicker than implied by that description. Any idea
what these might be or who I might go to with a sample I captured? Our local
agricultural school is no longer funded to provide county-extension services
to the public and exterminators have never heard of such a thing. The house
is on septic (soon to switch to sewer), but it seems unlikely that the worms
crawl up the vertical main stack to get to the second floor toilet, bypassing
the one on the first floor. My thought is that something is entering through
the vent stack and laying eggs in the toilet trap.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
In article <841...@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) writes:
| I have an odd problem with a (currently) unoccupied 1960s house. Worms
| appear in the upstairs toilet bowl. The toilet is never used, but I do
| flush it occasionally to keep to water level up. The worms are a couple
| of inches long and about 1/4" in diameter.
Actually, make that 1/8" diameter...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Speedy Jim
The wax seal has failed. The worms are living
in the rotting wood flooring and are able to
negotiate the tiny opening in the seal in search
of water.
Jim
Ann & Uku Peets
Have you looked in the tank?
Dan Hicks
It's not at all unlikely that they're coming down a vent if you have a
tree branch over the roof. Other than that I can't say.
Dan Hicks
is drying up, so all the bugs will come out looking for water.
If this is the case then likely the flooring under the toilet is getting
pretty spongy and some repair work may be needed.
Bill
the sewer in NY or somewhere. Maybe the rats are looking for worms?
TinMan1332
>| appear in the upstairs toilet bowl. The toilet is never used, but I do
>| flush it occasionally to keep to water level up. The worms are a couple
>| of inches long and about 1/4" in diameter.
>
>Actually, make that 1/8" diameter...
Pour a cup of bleach in the unused bowl and place the lid down.
Dan Lanciani
| Just a thought. They may be tubifex worms. These worms, reddish
| in color, live in streams, brooks, ditches or ponds and often get
| into sewers or drain traps where they multiply. often stopping up
| plumbing. When disturbed, they retract as if the several hundred
| behave as one individual.
Do they pose any threat to humans or pets?
| The worms would probably live only a
| hour or so in salt solution, but I am not certain the effects of
| salt in a septic system.
It doesn't matter. The sewer will be connected (at great expense :()
before anyone lives there.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
Did that; they came back... :(
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
| Have you looked in the tank?
Yes, it looks clean. I put some bleach in there as well just in case.
(Yes, I know what it will do to the flapper.) I'd really like to get
the sample worm identified just in case it is something obnoxious...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Bo Williams
>
> In article <36nc6t0q1mmp7pauv...@4ax.com>, nob...@noone.com (Phisherman) writes:
> | Just a thought. They may be tubifex worms. These worms, reddish
> | in color, live in streams, brooks, ditches or ponds and often get
> | into sewers or drain traps where they multiply. often stopping up
> | plumbing. When disturbed, they retract as if the several hundred
> | behave as one individual.
>
> Do they pose any threat to humans or pets?
No, but if you have a freshwater aquarium, its inhabitants would gobble
them up. I doubt they're Tubifex worms anyway--a toilet bowl is an
unusually clean place for Tubifex to be found. They like *seriously*
nasty places.
Got a county agent? S/he could likely identify the worm for you.
--
Bo Williams - wrwi...@mindspring.com
"That's nitpicking, isn't it?" - Nigel Tufnel
Iove doII
>From: ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani)
>Date: 1/17/01 4:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <841...@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>
Maybe you should try stocking your toilet bowl with fish, to eat the worms...
TinMan1332
How soon? Was the toilet flushed inbetween the time the bleach went in and the
bugs came back? The chlorine will evaporate out of the water over time and
retreatment may need to be done weekly.
Mikie
i used to start her car monthly or so & roll the tires a tad.
...a week or so before she returned --I'd get her fridge running, air the
place out, etc.
Her toilet evaporation was nil... she would saran wrap the bowl & tank too.
"TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010118003252...@ng-bd1.aol.com...
: >Did that; they came back... :(
Dan Lanciani
| Got a county agent? S/he could likely identify the worm for you.
The local agricultural college used to provide county-agent services,
but they say they are no longer funded to answer questions from the
public. :( No luck yet finding a replacement...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
| >Did that; they came back... :(
|
| How soon?
Weeks...
| Was the toilet flushed inbetween the time the bleach went in and the
| bugs came back?
No.
| The chlorine will evaporate out of the water over time and
| retreatment may need to be done weekly.
Yes, the chlorine smell was certainly gone. However, I was hoping the
bleach would somehow kill off the source (eggs somewhere?). I'd like
to understand the infiltration mechanism.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
GaryMO
Putting the bleach in the bowl is transient, and does nothing about the water
in the tank, or the rim of the bowl... wonderful spot for these guys to hang
out.
Try putting a chlorine tablet (ask a friend who has a swimming pool) in th
tank... that'll take care of water from the tank, from the rim, in the bowl and
out to the sewers.
The tablet may well last a week or so.
The bathroom will smell of chlorine for a while, so you may want to leave a
window opened. One idea to limit the smells in the bathroom while you go
through this process (especially as the bathroom is not normally used) is to
cover the bowl, AND the tank with plastic wrap... that should contain the
smell.
BTW... if you do smell the chlorine despite sealing off the bowl and the tank,
then its likely that you've got the leak under the toilet that other writers
wrote about.
Judith Geisinger
see if anyone would take a shot at identifying your worms. If you can
provide a big enough live sample, there might be a class that would like
them for practice.
Derek R. Larson
Despite that line, I'd suggest taking a sample to a biologist there. All
the faculty I work with would be more than happy to answer a question like
this (probably intruiged) and I'm sure would be able to help you out.
Call up the biology department and ask the secretary to give you the name
of someone you could visit late in the afternoon or over lunch.
-Derek
--
________________________________________________________________________
Derek R. Larson Indiana University Dept. of History
"Let me go on record as stating that Mountain Dew, although a refreshing
and enjoyable beverage, is NOT A CONTRACEPTIVE." -Ann Landers
Gary Slusser
Have you seen any flies or other insects?
> "Dan Lanciani" <ddl@danlan.*com> wrote
TinMan1332
>to understand the infiltration mechanism.
They are likely hatching from eggs of flying critters, either from the top side
or in the sewer line.
Dan Lanciani
| Suggestion....
|
| Putting the bleach in the bowl is transient, and does nothing about the water
| in the tank, or the rim of the bowl... wonderful spot for these guys to hang
| out.
|
| Try putting a chlorine tablet (ask a friend who has a swimming pool) in th
| tank... that'll take care of water from the tank, from the rim, in the bowl and
| out to the sewers.
Funny you should mention that. The other day I put some more bleach in the
tank, flushed, re-bleached the tank and then put one of those tablets in the
bowl. Today I found a (small) worm next to the tablet, seemingly dead. So
I guess they are not hatching in the bowl but climbing in live. The reason
I didn't put a tablet in the tank at the time is that I was concerned it
would get caught in the flapper or other mechanism. I may make a little cage
to hold the tablet until it dissolves.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Hicks
Yeah, I suspect that they're looking for water. Probably they're coming
out of rotting wood in the area.
Winifred Carbunkle
into a baggie. Set it on the flatbed and SCAN US A PICTURE of them!
They may also be one of the parasitic worms which infest small animals
(dogs cats squirrels etc).
I'd bet there's a usenet forum for worms or parasites (no, not the one
for lawyers) where they'd jump all over your worms!
Michael Baugh
it sits in the rim, rather than being diluted by the tank water, and
degrading the flapper valve.
Vinegar would be a nice substitute for bleach, as it also helps remove
calcium deposits.
In article <841...@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>,
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Beau Grant
>I have an odd problem with a (currently) unoccupied 1960s house. Worms
>appear in the upstairs toilet bowl. The toilet is never used, but I do
>flush it occasionally to keep to water level up. The worms are a couple
>of inches long and about 1/4" in diameter. They are quite active and seem
>to respond to light. The first time I saw this I though it was a fluke (no
>pun intended) and simply flushed them, adding some bleach. But a few weeks
>later when I went to do some more work on the house, they were back. These
>are earthworm-pink in color and stay under water. I have read about horse
>hair worms but these seem thicker than implied by that description. Any idea
>what these might be or who I might go to with a sample I captured? Our local
>agricultural school is no longer funded to provide county-extension services
>to the public and exterminators have never heard of such a thing. The house
>is on septic (soon to switch to sewer), but it seems unlikely that the worms
>crawl up the vertical main stack to get to the second floor toilet, bypassing
>the one on the first floor. My thought is that something is entering through
>the vent stack and laying eggs in the toilet trap.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com
Actually I heard of a case similar to this a few months ago, worms
were coming from city water system, when a lady went to fill up the
tub, they they were.. you may want to establish what direction the
worms are coming from, perhaps their size makes them unoticable until
they they grow in a preferred enviroment... just an idea..
Dan Lanciani
| Got a computer flatbed scanner?
In fact, I just got one. Amazing how cheap they have become...
| Catch a worm or two or more, put 'em
| into a baggie. Set it on the flatbed and SCAN US A PICTURE of them!
Ok. The one I captured previously died and I think it may have started to
decompose; however, I scanned it. The pictures can be viewed at:
http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
I think it stretched a little as a result of my skewering it out of the paper
cup of water where I had it stored. The worms seem to remain completely
submerged in the toilet but this one died in a cup of water. One interesting
thing that doesn't show up in the picture: where the worm was damaged by my
handling it glows green in the illumination of the scanner's tube.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
rosie@readandpost
--
READ AND POST EVERYDAY, ITS A COMMITMENT!
rosie
"Dan Lanciani" <ddl@danlan.*com> wrote in message
news:844...@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM...
Dan Lanciani
| that sure looks like an EARTHWORM..........
It does, doesn't it? However, the earthworms I see here in the earth
are considerably fatter. Maybe being under water has some effect...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Ben Franklin VI
the water therapy pool of the worm rehab center. And we thought worms are
dumb! <G>
There's a time to wink as well as to see. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Poor Richard's
Almanack
>rom: Beau Grant bgr...@yahoo.com
>Date: 1/21/01 9:57 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <63ff6tsl9q9hc6jrn...@4ax.com>
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, motto of the Historical
Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
Ben VI
Dan Hicks
sewer line. Worms that used to be perfectly happy elsewhere are coming
inside to look for water since the toilet isn't being used.
Dan Lanciani
| Wonderful scan!
Only my second attempt to use the scanner...
| I agree with Rosie. It looks like an earthworm!
| They typically feed on decaying matter. They require moisture but
| will drown in water.
These worms remained alive and very active completely submerged in the water
of the toilet bowl. The one I captured became inactive as I pulled it out
of the water but became quite active again when I put it in a paper cup of
water. I know it's hard to be sure, but I think water is their natural
environment. The alternative explanation would be that they just happen
to have fallen in and not drowned yet each time I find them...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Rackie
David Thomas
> Ok. The one I captured previously died and I think it may have
> started to
> decompose; however, I scanned it. The pictures can be viewed at:
>
> http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
>
> I think it stretched a little as a result of my skewering it out of
> the paper
> cup of water where I had it stored. The worms seem to remain
> completely
> submerged in the toilet but this one died in a cup of water. One
> interesting
> thing that doesn't show up in the picture: where the worm was damaged
> by my
> handling it glows green in the illumination of the scanner's tube.
Dan, what you have here is an aquatic version of the earthworm. They
are very common and are not harmful in themselves however their
presence in your home indicates to me that you probably have a non-
chlorinated well with extreme surface influence and should have your
water tested for Coliform bacteria.
I'm guessing that eggs rather than adults are entering your home system
and you would see them in other areas if they were given a chance to
hatch and grow. Treating just the toilet won't cure your problem. You
may want to shock chlorinate the entire well whenever these critters
show up or consider a more permanent treatment option such as
filtration to remove the eggs and/or UV.
You can learn more about aquatic earthworms here:
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Science/SWCS/xxv.html
(The site even has a photo very similar to the one you took.)
--
David
Email me at dth...@NO.cityutilities.net
(Remove "NO." spam protection)
Opinions expressed are my own.
NOSPAMBOB
through the glass door into the family room. Lots on the garge floor. Don't
like saturated soil.
In article <anjp6tgaba705okk6...@4ax.com>, Phisherman
<nob...@noone.com> writes:
>It looks like an earthworm! They typically feed on decaying matter. They
require moisture but will drown in water.
Name works for E-mail
Dan Lanciani
| Dan, what you have here is an aquatic version of the earthworm. They
| are very common and are not harmful in themselves however their
| presence in your home indicates to me that you probably have a non-
| chlorinated well with extreme surface influence and should have your
| water tested for Coliform bacteria.
|
| I'm guessing that eggs rather than adults are entering your home system
| and you would see them in other areas if they were given a chance to
| hatch and grow. Treating just the toilet won't cure your problem. You
| may want to shock chlorinate the entire well whenever these critters
| show up or consider a more permanent treatment option such as
| filtration to remove the eggs and/or UV.
The house is on city water. Granted the water can be pretty bad, but
they do dump loads of chlorine in it I think. :)
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
| One other thing to consider.
| Do YOU have tapeworms?
| I'd see a doctor if you think it's possible.
While undoubtedly good advise in general, it's not really relevant since
I've never used the toilet (or for that matter, any toilet in the house)...
Now I have seen tapeworms and to me they don't look anything like what I
scanned. Does it appear to be a tapeworm to you?
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
TinMan1332
Litter box, crock pot... Depends? <G>
Dan Hicks
>
> ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>
> > Ok. The one I captured previously died and I think it may have
> > started to
> > decompose; however, I scanned it. The pictures can be viewed at:
> >
> > http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
> >
> > I think it stretched a little as a result of my skewering it out of
> > the paper
> > cup of water where I had it stored. The worms seem to remain
> > completely
> > submerged in the toilet but this one died in a cup of water. One
> > interesting
> > thing that doesn't show up in the picture: where the worm was damaged
> > by my
> > handling it glows green in the illumination of the scanner's tube.
>
> Dan, what you have here is an aquatic version of the earthworm. They
> are very common and are not harmful in themselves however their
> presence in your home indicates to me that you probably have a non-
> chlorinated well with extreme surface influence and should have your
> water tested for Coliform bacteria.
If they're coming in via the domestic water supply then they'll be in
the toilet tank as well as in the bowl.
Tom Womack
house. For some reason the worms can't enter the toilet I think you
mentioned was downstairs. I'd bet the two toliets were different in design.
I'd also bet where ever the house is located it rains a lot or thr soil
around the house is very wet.
Tom W.
David Thomas
> > Dan, what you have here is an aquatic version of the earthworm. They
> > are very common and are not harmful in themselves however their
> > presence in your home indicates to me that you probably have a non-
> > chlorinated well with extreme surface influence and should have your
> > water tested for Coliform bacteria.
>
> If they're coming in via the domestic water supply then they'll be in
> the toilet tank as well as in the bowl.
Only if there were enough organic material in the tank for the
hatchlings to eat and grow to a size where they would be noticable.
Organic material in the bowel is conceivable. Organic material in the
tank is less likely. All that aside, the owners says he is on a
chlorinated city sytem so my theroy falls flat anyway.
David Thomas
Date: 01/23/2001
Author: Dan Lanciani <ddl@danlan.*com>
Dan, I tried to reply to this thread directly but you had some sort of
restriction on it to only reply by e-mail. I will e-mail this response
to you, however I think it is the function of this newsgroup to share
all responses publicly so that we may all learn from these experiences.
> In article <94kfid$5gs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, dthom...@my-deja.com
> (David Thomas) writes:
>| Dan, what you have here is an aquatic version of the earthworm. They
>| are very common and are not harmful in themselves however their
>| presence in your home indicates to me that you probably have a non-
>| chlorinated well with extreme surface influence and should have your
>| water tested for Coliform bacteria.
>|
>| I'm guessing that eggs rather than adults are entering your home
> system
>| and you would see them in other areas if they were given a chance to
>| hatch and grow. Treating just the toilet won't cure your problem. You
>| may want to shock chlorinate the entire well whenever these critters
>| show up or consider a more permanent treatment option such as
>| filtration to remove the eggs and/or UV.
>The house is on city water. Granted the water can be pretty bad, but
>they do dump loads of chlorine in it I think. :)
I don't recall if you mentioned where you hail from or the name of your
water supplier. Any information you can give can certainly help. Does
your supplier use ground water or surface water? If the supplier uses
chlorine continuously then chances are good the worms aren't coming
from the domestic supply. If they use chlorine kinda hit and miss then
its another matter. Is your home located near any rivers, lakes or
swamps? (Here's an age-old question) Do you leave the stool lid up or
down?
I've forwarded your photo to a university with a request for a better
identification of the worm than I can do. If you want to go to extremes
you can pickle a few of the worms in rubbing alcohol and send them to
me. (Clean glass baby food jar work very well.) Armed with that
information, we stand a better chance at determining how the things are
getting into your home. From your description and photo, I feel these
are truly aquatic Oligochaetes and not just earthworms that entered
your sewage system through a crack in the pipe and crawled up the stack
to get to your upstairs toilet bowel.
If you are curious you could try a little experiment. Flush any worms
down and then after the bowel refills, dip a quart of the bowel water
into an open glass bowel (or jar) and set it on the bathroom counter.
(Flush the stool again so the water level is back where it should be.)
Now fill two more similar bowels from your kitchen tap and place them
next to the first after covering one with cellophane wrap. Wait until
the worms reappear in the toilet and then check the three bowels for
similar occupants. Let us know the results. If the worms are only in
the toilet bowel, that would point a finger at your sewage system.
Dan Lanciani
| On 23 Jan 2001 22:29:07 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
|
| >In article <k9pr6tg16ajpprhv6...@4ax.com>, nos...@somewhere.com (No Spam) writes:
| >
| >| One other thing to consider.
| >| Do YOU have tapeworms?
| >| I'd see a doctor if you think it's possible.
| >
| >While undoubtedly good advise in general, it's not really relevant since
| >scanned. Does it appear to be a tapeworm to you?
| >
| > Dan Lanciani
| > ddl@danlan.*com
|
http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
| I didnt get all of this thread.
| I never seen a human tape worm either, but my cats had them once.
| (gross) !
I've seen dog and cat versions; I assumed human-inhabiting ones likely
looked similar...
| Just curious, well, probably none of my business, but where DO you
| use the toilet <grin> ?
In the house where I live... The house with the toilet with the worms
is unoccupied.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Brian Sandle
>
> http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
>
> | I didnt get all of this thread.
> | I never seen a human tape worm either, but my cats had them once.
> | (gross) !
>
> I've seen dog and cat versions; I assumed human-inhabiting ones likely
> looked similar...
>
> | Just curious, well, probably none of my business, but where DO you
> | use the toilet <grin> ?
>
> In the house where I live... The house with the toilet with the worms
> is unoccupied.
Could it be a starved earthworm which has come up some time ago from a
cracked sewer pipe or been dropped down a vent by a bird?
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RamblinOn
Brian Sandle wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2001, Dan Lanciani wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.danlan.com/worm.html
> >
> > | I didnt get all of this thread.
> > | I never seen a human tape worm either, but my cats had them once.
> > | (gross) !
> >
> > I've seen dog and cat versions; I assumed human-inhabiting ones likely
> > looked similar...
> >
> > | Just curious, well, probably none of my business, but where DO you
> > | use the toilet <grin> ?
> >
> > In the house where I live... The house with the toilet with the worms
> > is unoccupied.
>
> Could it be a starved earthworm which has come up some time ago from a
> cracked sewer pipe or been dropped down a vent by a bird?
That's my theory. Earthworms - and the picture looked like one - live in
soil, drown in water. When the soil is waterlogged, they come up for air.
I seriously doubt that they can climb up a sewer drain to second story, so,
they must come down. There must be organic matter they are living in.
Leaves and junk in sewer vent. Possibly a bird nesting in vent?
David Thomas
>dthom...@my-deja.com (David Thomas) writes:
>|Dan, I tried to reply to this thread directly but you had some sort of
>|restriction on it to only reply by e-mail.
>I'm sorry about that. My news reader has a "feature" that inserts a
>reply-to line on any posting which goes to more than one group. (I
>guess it's supposed to discourage cross-posting). Sometimes I forget
>to delete it. Please feel free (even encouraged!) to post the reply
>you emailed me.
The worst thing for me in participating in these newsgroups is also the
pesky quirks of my reader. ;-)
>|I don't recall if you mentioned where you hail from or the name of
>|your water
>|supplier.
>Gloucester, MA (and the city is the supplier) Our city is known for
>having some of the strictest environmental regulations in a state
>known for same. I'm about to spend $150k to connect this house to a
>sewer. Gloucester doesn't install sewers any more, leaving it to
>individuals. After you install the sewer you get to pay the city an
>additional 40% and then 5 years later they take ownership if they like
>the maintenance records. :) Unfortunately, most of the environmental
>regulations apply only to the residents and not to the city itself. :(
I found one community system in MA on EPA's web site for such things
(http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/dwinfo.htm) with the name you indicated:
GLOUCESTER DPW WATER DEPT. in Essex county serving a population of
39,000 with surface water as it primary source.
EPA's site shows one health violation of the Coliform rule on JUN-30-
1997 (failure to report) and another violation between OCT-01-1998 and
DEC-31-1998 for failure to complete all required samples in a timely
manner for monitoring nitrates. As is typical of most EPA violations
(see next paragraph), these are both "red-tape" violations rather than
"bad-water" violations. In both cases the water system complied with
EPA's follow up actions in a timely manner, public notification on JUL-
10-1997 for the former and a response (an explanation of why they
failed to comply) to the formal Notice Of Violation on FEB-05-1999 for
the latter.
For comparisons, in 1998 (the last year for which EPA has complete
data), based on information reported to EPA by the states, 0.75 percent
of all systems violated a treatment technique, 5 percent of all systems
violated an MCL, and 17.6 percent of all systems had a
reporting/monitoring violation. That is, almost one in five systems had
a "red-tape" violation of some kind.
>|Any information you can give can certainly help. Does your supplier
>|use ground water or surface water?
>As far as I know it's all surface.
>|If the supplier uses chlorine continuously
>|then chances are good the worms aren't coming from the domestic
>|supply. If they
>|use chlorine kinda hit and miss then its another matter.
>Well, the whole water supply is kind of hit-or-miss. For two years we
>were on water restrictions not because there was a lack of water but
>because the main pump was broken and the city was unwilling to hire an
>engineer to fix it. The pipes in the street are very old and from time
>to time the city backflushes them for our enjoyment. This results in
>lots of solid matter in the supply for the following day. However,
>all that said, I currently live in a house near the subject house and
>connected to exactly the same water supply line. (And I mean exactly:
>the connection to the main is probably within a few feet.) There is a
>seldom-used toilet in this house as well and it has never shown any
>signs of worms. Moreover, I've had tap water standing in tanks, snow
>globes (don't laugh) and the like for months without any worms
>appearing.
OK, my idea of eggs in the water hatching was all wet. I also found out
that these critters have a life-cycle of one or two years, so the idea
that they could hatch and grow to the size of the one you scanned in
just weeks is just more cold water on that theory. I'll lean with the
majority that these worms are crawling into the tiolet from the sewer
system, although I have to wonder why they haven't shown up in other
areas of the house.
>|Is your home located
>|near any rivers, lakes or swamps?
>Just the ocean.
I was just over in Beverly back in early Dec. Nice area, bad drivers.
>|(Here's an age-old question) Do you leave the
>|stool lid up or down?
>I don't really remember because I didn't actually use the that
>bathroom. Since I noticed the worms I've been leaving it down.
Although the women-folk may not approve, try leaving the lid up. These
type of worms are usually photophobic and will avoid direct light if
they can, hopefully there is a window in the bathroom. I'm not sure its
worth leaving a light on if there isn't a window but that could also be
a "treatment" option (as in directing a spotlight onto the bowel if
there is tracked lighting available). "Green" treatments are the rage
these days and I think fresh walnut hulls left in the toilet bowel
might repel the worms too. (Unfortunately it might also leave a brown
stain in the bowel.) Perhaps grind up a slurry of walnut hulls and pour
it down one of the stack vents closest to the second story bathroom?
(Its not the best time of year to find fresh walnut hulls, I admit.)
>|I've forwarded your photo to a university with a request for a better
>|identification of the worm than I can do.
>Thanks!
It was easy to do but not as easy to get information back. So far not a
word in response.
>|If you want to go to extremes you can
>|pickle a few of the worms in rubbing alcohol and send them to me.
>I think the chlorine in the toilet has really been discouraging them,
>but when it dissipates I'll bet they will reappear and I'll capture a
>few more. By rubbing alcohol do you mean isopropyl or ethyl/denatured?
Any alcohol will do (even vodka) as long as it is 70% (140 proof) or
more.
>|I feel these are truly aquatic Oligochaetes and not just
>|earthworms that entered your sewage system through a crack in the
>|pipe and
>|crawled up the stack to get to your upstairs toilet bowel.
>They certainly didn't act like they were drowning, so I think you must
>be right. They couldn't be leeches, could they? The mouth on one end
>looked pretty big and they waved those ends in a threatening way. :)
No, these worms are not leeches. Leeches are relatively smooth-skinned
flatworms with a very apparent sucker on both ends. Try
http://www.gondar.co.uk/abe/leeches.html "Leeches - Hirundinea" for
more information on leeches (I'm currently having trouble with my
browser and wasn't able to preview this site but it sounded like a good
one from the directory I used.)
In the photo you provided, IMO the mouth was located on the lower right
of the critter (the end closest to the ruler). The other end (which was
not as easy to see in the photo) appeared to be flattened with respect
to the rest of the body and is either used in locomotion or as a
breathing gill which would require waving around in either case. The
clincher that the critter you scanned is a member of the earthworm
family is the slightly thicker segment about an inch behind the head
(called a clitellum). It isn't as obvious as on the typical earthworm
we all know and love but that is often the case in the true aquatic
species.
pat
David Thomas <dthom...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94pv3q$vli$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
> >dthom...@my-deja.com (David Thomas) writes:
> >Gloucester, MA (and the city is the supplier) Our city is known for
> >having some of the strictest environmental regulations in a state
> >known for same. I'm about to spend $150k to connect this house to a
> >sewer. Gloucester doesn't install sewers any more, leaving it to
> >individuals. After you install the sewer you get to pay the city an
> >additional 40% and then 5 years later they take ownership if they like
> >the maintenance records. :) Unfortunately, most of the environmental
> >regulations apply only to the residents and not to the city itself. :(
Dude, For that kind of money, i'd be using a bucket and outhouse.
;-)
pat
JmG
>Or you could put in a pretty fancy composting system with dual heated
>bucket seats and full dolby surround ice dispensers. Seriously
>though... I'd be looking at just about every other option. 150K is
>nuts!
I'm pretty sure, unless the guy is running a multi-story apartment building,
it's a typo.
J
Dan Lanciani
No, it's not a typo. In fact, it's probably on the conservative side. The
run is about 1300 feet at $100/foot for trenching and installation of PVC
pressure pipe. There are additional costs for manholes and stub connections
for other houses (even if they don't want to connect). The tank and grinder
pump cost about $20k exclusive of electrical work. (That's per-house, so it
doesn't help anybody else who wants to connect.) Then there is a sewer
privilege fee (in lieu of betterment) to the city equal to 40% of what the city
would have charged had they installed the sewer. This fee is a wildcard as I
can't really find out what it will be until it's too late. :( Finally there
is a 5 year bond of 25% of the total project cost. I'm not sure what the
carrying cost of that will be. Oh, and that ignores all the engineering and
permit fees, advertising, etc.
And yes, I have considered every other option. And no, I'm not running
a multi-story apartment building. Just a three-bedroom house.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dan Lanciani
[...]
| As is typical of most EPA violations
| (see next paragraph), these are both "red-tape" violations rather than
| "bad-water" violations.
Of course, nobody has ever come to sample the water from our taps, so
all the EPA's monitoring requirements tend to ignore the state of the
~100 year old pipes in the road. Not that I think there are worm eggs
there, but all the black and brown solid material that appears after
each back-flush makes for bad water in my book. (It also plugs up the
toilet fill valves, sink & tub flow restrictors, etc.)
| I also found out
| that these critters have a life-cycle of one or two years, so the idea
| that they could hatch and grow to the size of the one you scanned in
| just weeks is just more cold water on that theory.
Years? Hmm, I know it can be extremely misleading to extrapolate from so
few samples, but I really had the feeling that they were growing there.
On one occasion after a few days there was one small worm. Later after
more time there was the large one I scanned. Prior to all that I had
left the house alone for more weeks and there were lots of large ones.
But I suppose it's equally possible that they just enter with some fixed
probability, so the longer you wait the more there are and the more likely
it is that there are large ones.
| I'll lean with the
| majority that these worms are crawling into the tiolet from the sewer
| system, although I have to wonder why they haven't shown up in other
| areas of the house.
Especially the toilet on the first floor... I just find it hard to
believe that they are crawling all the way up the main stack (which
was probably dry until I started worrying about this) to find water
when they could simply go down to the septic tank (which has always had
water in it).
I was up on the roof a few months ago and I did inspect the stack. No
obvious blockage, birds, deposits of organic matter, etc.
| Although the women-folk may not approve, try leaving the lid up. These
| type of worms are usually photophobic and will avoid direct light if
| they can, hopefully there is a window in the bathroom.
They certainly react to light, though I'd say they are attracted to it.
That's how I baited the one I captured up from the bottom of the bowl,
and after it was in the cup I could get it to stick its head up by
shining a flashlight.
| "Green" treatments are the rage
| these days and I think fresh walnut hulls left in the toilet bowel
| might repel the worms too.
I'm happy with the un-green chlorine tablets. If chlorine is good enough
for potable water & pools, it's good enough for the toilet. :)
| >|I've forwarded your photo to a university with a request for a better
| >|identification of the worm than I can do.
|
| >Thanks!
|
| It was easy to do but not as easy to get information back. So far not a
| word in response.
They probably don't want to panic the public. :)
| In the photo you provided, IMO the mouth was located on the lower right
| of the critter (the end closest to the ruler). The other end (which was
| not as easy to see in the photo) appeared to be flattened with respect
| to the rest of the body and is either used in locomotion or as a
| breathing gill which would require waving around in either case.
Or maybe I just damaged it... I don't think it looked flat at that end
while it was alive.
| The
| clincher that the critter you scanned is a member of the earthworm
| family is the slightly thicker segment about an inch behind the head
| (called a clitellum).
Now that feature was very obvious when it was alive. Just like the
picture in a book. Unfortunately, the book was concerned with what
to feed lizards, so it didn't say much about the worm itself...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Brian Sandle
> Brian Sandle wrote:
>> On 25 Jan 2001, Dan Lanciani wrote:
>> Could it be a starved earthworm which has come up some time ago from a
>> cracked sewer pipe or been dropped down a vent by a bird?
> That's my theory. Earthworms - and the picture looked like one - live in
> soil, drown in water. When the soil is waterlogged, they come up for air.
> I seriously doubt that they can climb up a sewer drain to second story,
Unless some plant roots are growing in it. Earthworms wriggle for some
time in water.
so,
> they must come down. There must be organic matter they are living in.
> Leaves and junk in sewer vent. Possibly a bird nesting in vent?
Sometimes birds try to hold a couple of worms and as they juggle them to a
more confortable position for a longer flight they may drop one. Sometimes
they may perch on the vent?
I have seen worms in a little used toilet bowl at ground level in
winter. They reappeared in a couple of weeks - I didn't check each day. I
have not seen them for months (now it is summer here).
Roots can travel very long distances.
When you flush does the water slightly build up in the bowl?
Tony Miklos
>
> No, it's not a typo. In fact, it's probably on the conservative side. The
> run is about 1300 feet at $100/foot for trenching and installation of PVC
> pressure pipe.
$100 a foot? What are they digging through, granite?
--
Tony
Dan Lanciani
Yes, exactly. (Though restoring the surface of the road apparently adds
quite a bit.) Note that that figure assumes that there won't be too much
_solid_ ledge requiring blasting. With ledge the figure would increase to
around $200/foot, but there is an alternate approach of insulating the pipe
and not putting it as deep (above the frost line). The insulation costs "only"
about $35/foot (for a total of $135/foot), but I'm kind of worried that it must
require a certain minimum flow rate since eventually the pipe and insulation
would (I think) reach the temperature of the ground. Go away on vacation and
find a very expensive burst sewer when you get back... (There is no way to
empty these pressure sewer systems; they are always full.) Ah for the good
old days of gravity sewers.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
IleneB
<j...@chebucto.ca> wrote:
>
> Or you could put in a pretty fancy composting system with dual heated
> bucket seats and full dolby surround ice dispensers. Seriously
> though... I'd be looking at just about every other option. 150K is
> nuts!
The fine state of Massachusetts will get you coming and going with
septic problems. But I did think the hook-up charge in Gloucester was
more like $10K, at least it was when a friend of mine bought a house
there in 1993. She bought a place in town, which was already hooked up,
and then was assessed some thousands because it was decided that all
town members should be assessed.
Was it a typo- did you mean $15K?
My own new septic will cost $25K, which appalls me. (Littleton MA)
Ilene B
JmG
>Was it a typo- did you mean $15K?
That is what I thought but he came back and said "No," though still, his numbers
simply aren't adding up.
>My own new septic will cost $25K, which appalls me. (Littleton MA)
That's high, no doubt. But a new, properly built septic will serve you and your
neighbors a long time. You through the fact that it works, and your neighbors
from the fact that if it's working properly there will be less of a chance of
polluting your and their wells.
Yeah, the cost is high but the benefits are for a long time.
J
<RJ>
where what should be a $5000 renovation
turns into a $50,000 renovation after complying
with "local codes"
At times, it seems that Mass. building regs
were authored by a collusion between
building contractors, and trades unions.
At this rate, the only people that will be able to afford to live
there will be politicians, union officials, and
people in public housing.
<rj>
On 26 Jan 2001 04:52:53 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>
>No, it's not a typo. In fact, it's probably on the conservative side. The
>run is about 1300 feet at $100/foot for trenching and installation of PVC
>pressure pipe. There are additional costs for manholes and stub connections
>for other houses (even if they don't want to connect). The tank and grinder
>pump cost about $20k exclusive of electrical work. (That's per-house, so it
>doesn't help anybody else who wants to connect.) Then there is a sewer
>privilege fee (in lieu of betterment) to the city equal to 40% of what the city
>would have charged had they installed the sewer. This fee is a wildcard as I
>can't really find out what it will be until it's too late. :( Finally there
>is a 5 year bond of 25% of the total project cost. I'm not sure what the
>carrying cost of that will be. Oh, and that ignores all the engineering and
>permit fees, advertising, etc.
>
>And yes, I have considered every other option. And no, I'm not running
>a multi-story apartment building. Just a three-bedroom house.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com
<RJ>
IleneB
<jmg...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> You through the fact that it works, and your neighbors
> from the fact that if it's working properly there will be less of a chance of
> polluting your and their wells.
I try to cheer myself up with that, but we're on town water- no wells.
One reason mine was so costly is that my lot was grandfathered in- it's
too close to a wetlands by current laws, but they had to give me a
permit because there was an existing habitation. On the other hand,
they could make me jump through hoops and law offices and meetings for
a year and a half, and they did. Wonder if it'll take that long to
double my taxes?
I also try to remember that one reason my town has some open land and
open lots *is* because of septic systems. My friend in Gloucester tells
me that, as soon as sewers were put in, development went wild in places
where no houses could be put before that.
Ilene B
Dan Lanciani
| IleneB <ile...@shore.net> wrote:
|
| >Was it a typo- did you mean $15K?
|
| That is what I thought but he came back and said "No," though still, his numbers
| simply aren't adding up.
Would you be so kind as to tell me exactly how my numbers aren't "adding up?"
If you think you could manage the project to reduce the costs I'd be happy
to hire you on a percent-of-cost-saved basis. (Naturally if you run over
your estimate I'd expect you to pay me the same percentage. :) But beware that
I have the numbers for the previous segment along the same road and for the most
recent grinder pump/tank connection to said segment (within the past year and
month, respectively). And costs aren't going down...
| >My own new septic will cost $25K, which appalls me. (Littleton MA)
|
| That's high, no doubt.
That's cheap for Gloucester. The only kind of septic system I could install
is an advanced treatment system (lack of 4 feet of naturally occurring pervious
soil--although some jurisdictions in MA seem to allow you to build up with fill
with a variance, Gloucester does not). It would cost about $40k for a FAST
system exclusive of electrical and plumbing (the entire sewer pipe system of
the house is under the foundation and would have to be raised, i.e., replaced
to bring it above the level of the first pump chamber). A recirculating sand
filter system would cost significantly more, so I didn't bother getting bids.
Now, the FAST system might seem like a good deal (at least compared to the
sewer) until you get a little more information. First of all, the system has
to be re-inspected (at the owners expense) every 3 months forever. In
addition to inspecting the FAST system and leech field the company has to
read your water meter to make sure usage is within the parameters of the
system. Any problems are reported to the local health department and the state
DEP. A remediation report must then be filed. The inspection agency also must
report alarm activations (the system requires an alarm panel) to those agencies
within 24 hours, so this seems to require a dialer on the alarm. (Details are
sketchy because all this technology is so new.)
For all these inspection and reporting services you must buy what is
euphemistically called a "maintenance contract" from the single company
in the state that is authorized to service FAST systems. This costs a few
thousand per year (payable 2 years in advance) and, if it really were a
maintenance contract, it might be a good deal. But it isn't. It's only an
inspection contract. If any maintenance is required, you pay whatever they
tell you to pay. They don't sell actual maintenance contracts that cover
maintenance. Nobody sells insurance. Nobody will offer any useful guarantee
on the system, not even a guarantee that it will pass its first 3-month
inspection. The design engineer guarantees only that the system is designed
to code. The contractor guarantees only that he built the system according to
the approved plans. The manufacturer of the FAST insert guarantees that the
insert won't "break" but points out that they never break because they are just
concrete boxes.
At this point you're probably going to say that in all likelyhood nothing
will go wrong, and the various complaints about active treatment systems
are anomalies. The inspections every three months are a pain, but they
probably won't hurt resale value _that_ much. And you can probably landscape
around the access ports for the leech field and the two manhole covers for
the pump chambers. I was at this stage in the analysis about 6 months ago.
But there is one more catch. Read on.
| But a new, properly built septic will serve you and your
| neighbors a long time. You through the fact that it works, and your neighbors
| from the fact that if it's working properly there will be less of a chance of
| polluting your and their wells.
|
| Yeah, the cost is high but the benefits are for a long time.
Don't count on it. My city has entered into some sort of consent decree with
the state DEP and (I think) the EPA. All houses within something like 1000
feet of the ocean have to go on sewer. The exact time frame and implementation
details are unclear, but individuals have already been forced to connect even
though there was no state triggering event (change of ownership, etc.) and no
evidence of system failure. Moreover, people with better insight than I into
the politics are connecting now (even though some have very new septic systems)
so as to have a little better control of the process. Given that any money
spent on a new septic system will become worthless in an unspecified time (but
a time probably bounded by a few years), I choose to connect to the sewer now.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Peter Bucy
Have you though of installing a septic tank?
v.
motley fool wrote:
>>Was it a typo- did you mean $15K?
>
>That is what I thought but he came back and said "No," though still, his numbers
>simply aren't adding up.
>
I don't know why you won't believe the guy. He is laying 1300 feet of
force main. Normally a developer would do that to serve a dozen
houses or more, but it aint much chaeper that it's only one house.
Ever been to the ocean at Goucester? The phrase "the rock-bound
coast" was coined for Maine but it could be Gloucester, too. It IS
granite.
And he is working in the public way, so he has to open the pavement
first, not as simple as a new installation going in before the road.
Did you know that in Mass., the person doing the work must pay for an
actual police officer (not a flag man) to stand by any work being done
in the public way? Only state in the Union like that.
Both the regulations, and, apparently, the neighbors can be tough in
Gloucester. I recall a case a few years back where a woman there with
some interest in real estate investment bought one of the few ocean
front vacant parcels in town, thinking to build on it. Well financed
neighbors who had gotten used to the idea that the parcel was their
free playground brought lawsuit after lawsuit to stymie her until (if
I recall correctly) she was driven bankrupt and lost the property.
That's the good old people's republic of Massachusetts.
I wish the guy luck.
-v.
JmG
>We've all seen the series on "This Old House"
>where what should be a $5000 renovation
>turns into a $50,000 renovation after complying
>with "local codes"
Those "local codes", though they may appear to be harsh and arbitrary are base
don the same lines that people cannot be trusted to do what is right by
themselves. We've got laws against marijuana and for wearing helmets and whatnot
for pretty much the same reason. But, they also protect the people who live
around you and those who come after you.
Remember, the homes _actually built_ to local code in Dade County survived
Hurricane Andrew.
>At times, it seems that Mass. building regs
>were authored by a collusion between
>building contractors, and trades unions.
I'd be willing to bet that's pretty right on target.
>At this rate, the only people that will be able to afford to live
>there will be politicians, union officials, and
>people in public housing.
Nah.
J
Terry Sanford
> Gloucester. I recall a case a few years back where a woman there with
> some interest in real estate investment bought one of the few ocean
> front vacant parcels in town, thinking to build on it. Well financed
> neighbors who had gotten used to the idea that the parcel was their
> free playground brought lawsuit after lawsuit to stymie her until (if
> I recall correctly) she was driven bankrupt and lost the property.
>
Neighbourly bunch!
re...@mailandnews.com
>Deltona's drinking water can really make your skin crawl
>
>Kate Santich
>of the Sentinel Staff
>
>Posted January 27, 2001
>
>
>DELTONA -- Denise Kodya was filling the tub one night this week to give her
>kids a bath when she found what she thought was a little fiber of
>burgundy-colored carpet floating in the water.
>
>Only it wasn’t. It was a bloodworm -- with its tiny egg sack still attached,
>she said.
>
>"It was nasty," the Deltona woman said, wrinkling her nose.
>
>The kids, needless to say, did not get a bath that night. Denise’s husband,
>Kevin, went immediately to the kitchen sink and unscrewed the screen on the
>tap. There, he said, he found several more worms.
>
>Now the whole family is on bottled water. They’re taking showers at
>relatives’ homes. Kevin Kodya cleaned and replaced the kitchen filter.
>
>"I’m paying at least $100 a month in water, and all I can use it for is to
>flush the toilet," he said.
>
>And they’re not the only residents here squeamish about what may or may not
>be coming out of their faucets. The worms first showed up last September in
>the bathtub of Rosemarie Hester, who lives about a quarter-mile away.
>
>"It turned my stomach," she said. "It’s not fair. It’s not right. I live in
>the United States. I shouldn’t have to live like this."
>
>For months, officials from the water company -- privately owned Florida
>Water Services -- and the Volusia County Health Department assured folks the
>appearance of the worms was a highly isolated incident. They even speculated
>that the problem might have more to do with Hester’s plumbing than the
>public water supply.
>
>But a week ago they found the worms in several fire hydrants they tested in
>other parts of the 6,000-home region the company serves. Suddenly, neighbors
>are squinting at their tap water, praying they don’t see anything. Some,
>just to be on the safe side, are calling the Culligan man.
>
>"You just think about it, and it grosses you out," said Debbie Berrios, who
>lives across the street from Hester. She has switched her family to bottled
>water and now does all her laundry in the hottest temperatures her washing
>machine can muster. "You think about even your underclothes."
>
>Never mind that the water company points out the worms have been confirmed
>at only two homes -- of Hester and her next-door neighbors, the Martinez
>family -- while samples from the Kodyas’ bathtub are still at the lab. Never
>mind that the county health department and the state Department of
>Environmental Protection have said repeatedly that the worms -- or, more
>correctly, midge fly larvae -- are positively harmless, except for the "ick"
>factor.
>
>"There are no known adverse health effects from the midge fly larvae, eggs
>or adult flies," said Ray Van Loon, the health department’s drinking-water
>program manager. "In fact, when I was at Ms. Hester’s house, I did take a
>sip -- and I didn’t even spit it out."
>
>Van Loon is braver than most. Even Deltona’s mayor, John Masiarczyk, admits,
>"If they were in my water I’d be just as upset, and I’d be on the phone in
>30 seconds demanding something be done."
>
>Paul Morrison, the environmental manager for the Department of Environmental
>Protection’s drinking-water program, concurs.
>
>"Of course no one wants them -- and the name doesn’t help any. ‘Bloodworms
> -- just that name right there turns people off," he said. "Who knows what
>people think when they hear that?"
>
>Technically, though, they are not worms at all. They are larvae -- the
>insect equivalent of toddlers. First, the adult midge flits around, mating
>in some nighttime rendezvous. Then the female scopes out a watery site in
>which to lay her eggs, and just maybe that site is an ever-so-tiny hole near
>a well or a water tank somewhere. At least, that’s the theory of how the
>worms might have gotten into the system.
>
>The eggs hatch into larvae, which snack on organic material, such as plant
>debris, that can safely be present in microscopic quantities in public
>drinking water. The larvae graduate to teenage pupae, the pupae swim to the
>surface and adult flies emerge. The whole thing is over in four or five
>weeks. The adult lives such a short time -- 12 days, tops -- that it doesn’t
>even have to eat. It dies of old age before it dies of starvation.
>
>The larvae have soft bodies that turn a deep red -- hence the name -- and
>are about a half-inch long. They’re easily broken up in dishwashers, shower
>heads and washing machines -- Hester said she has found them
>
>whole and in segments -- which may be why more people haven’t detected them.
>Unless you’re filling a bathtub, you might not notice, the health department
>admits.
>
>Further, the worms are practically impervious to chlorine. They can survive
>250 times the level put in drinking water to kill bacteria.
>
>"They’re tough to get rid of," Van Loon said.
>
>At first, the water company installed a filter on the line to Hester’s home.
>That worked -- until the company took off the filter earlier this month. The
>worms not only reappeared, but this time they invaded the Martinez household
>next door, too.
>
>Last weekend, the water company flushed out a nearby storage tank, and it
>will do so again in the next four days. The health department also plans to
>inspect four other water plants.
>
>The city will host a public forum on the issue Feb. 7 at 7 p.m. in
>Friendship Elementary School’s cafeteria. Representatives from the water
>company, the county and the state will be there to answer questions.
>
>Van Loon hopes that, by then, the worms will be history.
>
>The residents hope he is right. "They’d better pray to God nothing happens
>to my family," Hester said.
>
>Beth Kassab of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report.
>
>http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/volusia/orl-vol-worms-012701.story
>?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines
>
>
TakeThisOut
>where what should be a $5000 renovation
>turns into a $50,000 renovation after complying
>with "local codes"
>
>At times, it seems that Mass. building regs
>were authored by a collusion between
>building contractors, and trades unions.
>
>At this rate, the only people that will be able to afford to live
>there will be politicians, union officials, and
>people in public housing.
>
><rj>
>
There you go. Blame unions.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
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TAKETHISOUT budysbackagain(@)THAT TOO a-oh-ell dot com
mus...@yahoo.com.au
Tegger
224cea...@googlegroups.com:
>
> worms in toilet
>
Is that the name of a new rock band?
--
Tegger
Robert Green
one of two creatures: the horsehair worm or the moth fly larva
http://www.google.com/search?q=worms+in+toilet
gregz
toilet. That had me thinking. Still. After flushing all gone. Hard to tell
how long room was vacant. Now closed.
Greg
america...@gmail.com
Tony944
wrote in message
news:f26503b2-7881-48d6...@googlegroups.com...
Same thing happened to me yesterday, I have no idea what it is. People say
it could be from your septic tank. But UH!! I couldn't sleep and im not
using that toilet for awhile but yeah, it could be your septic tank.
thekma...@gmail.com
If this is the case then likely the flooring under the toilet is
getting pretty spongy and some repair work may be
needed."
Well, the uptake on that is someone will
sit down there to take a dump and the whole
sturmondramg 'll fall through into the room
below, and proper repairs can commence.
Similar scenario almost played out in 1948
at the White House: Pres Truman almost
made an unscheduled appearance in the
East Room at some cotillion his wife was
throwing directly below the executive suite.
The wood was dangerously rotted below his
tub!
When it was made clear that entire floors
of the White House were in danger of
collapsing, the Presidency was relocated
temporarily while a full steel frame
renovation was conducted.