Run away cars
Jack
Gordon Shumway
>I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>brakes.
>
>Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>then you could shut it off?
>
>Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
WTF does this have to do with home repair?
dpb
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:11:24 -0500, p4...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>
>> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>> brakes.
1) No, only requires locking to remove key from ignition
2) Far better to have manual braking and no acceleration than burn out
brakes w/ continued acceleration
>> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>> then you could shut it off?
Why not, indeed...
>> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
This seems to be a bone of contention that I've seen no clarification on
other than I think it's Toyota's recommendation (I say "I think" because
the reports I've seen are secondhand, not directly from Toyota--either
testimony or corporate statements. There seem to have been precious few
of those until the "technical presentation" to attempt to discredit the
firmware failure idea.)
> WTF does this have to do with home repair?
most home owners have autos??? Plus, it's a current topic of some
interest. If you're not, mark thread for not following in your
newsreader (as I'm getting ready to do).
--
tra...@optonline.net
>
> >> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
> >> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
> >> brakes.
>
> 1) No, only requires locking to remove key from ignition
To clarify, what he's saying is that if you turn off the ignition the
steering wheel will not lock unless you also remove the key.
>
> 2) Far better to have manual braking and no acceleration than burn out
> brakes w/ continued acceleration
>
> >> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
> >> then you could shut it off?
>
> Why not, indeed...
>
> >> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
Some people have claimed that they tried, but could not. Are they
telling the truth? Who knows. But take a look at the other thread
here I just posted. You have a Toyota again in San Diego, with
police involvement for a long time and from the reports so far, it
doesn't appear anyone had sense enough to just put it in neutral. And
it was in San Diego that a highway patrol officer and his family died
in a crash in a Lexus where the car went along long enough for a 911
call to be made. You'd think they surely would have learned
something from that one, but maybe not.
Steve B
"Gordon Shumway" <Rho...@Planet.Melmac> wrote in message
news:iqqcp59fu4bpnp04r...@4ax.com...
Was I drunk or absent the day you were put in charge?
HeyBub
No reason you couldn't have been both. I often am.
Gordon Shumway
Both.
Steve B
"Gordon Shumway" <Rho...@Planet.Melmac> wrote in message
Buhbye.
Steve B
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:pJ-dnY3vyfCiHwvW...@earthlink.com...
Was that YOU I was with. I really don't remember.
Steve ;-)
Doug Miller
>On Mar 9, 10:50=A0am, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
>> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>> > On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:11:24 -0500, p...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>>
>> >> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>> >> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>> >> brakes.
>>
>> 1) No, only requires locking to remove key from ignition
>
>To clarify, what he's saying is that if you turn off the ignition the
>steering wheel will not lock unless you also remove the key.
Incorrect. The steering wheel locks as soon as the ignition switch is turned
to the position in which the key _can_ be removed, even if the key remains in
the lock cylinder.
>
>
>
>>
>> 2) Far better to have manual braking and no acceleration than burn out
>> brakes w/ continued acceleration
>>
>> >> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>> >> then you could shut it off?
>>
>> Why not, indeed...
>>
>> >> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
>
>Some people have claimed that they tried, but could not. Are they
>telling the truth? Who knows. But take a look at the other thread
>here I just posted. You have a Toyota again in San Diego, with
>police involvement for a long time and from the reports so far, it
>doesn't appear anyone had sense enough to just put it in neutral. And
>it was in San Diego that a highway patrol officer and his family died
>in a crash in a Lexus where the car went along long enough for a 911
>call to be made. You'd think they surely would have learned
>something from that one, but maybe not.
>
>
>
>>
>> This seems to be a bone of contention that I've seen no clarification on
>> other than I think it's Toyota's recommendation (I say "I think" because
>> the reports I've seen are secondhand, not directly from Toyota--either
>> testimony or corporate statements. =A0There seem to have been precious fe=
>w
>> of those until the "technical presentation" to attempt to discredit the
>> firmware failure idea.)
>>
>> > WTF does this have to do with home repair?
>>
>> most home owners have autos??? =A0Plus, it's a current topic of some
>> interest. =A0If you're not, mark thread for not following in your
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>In article <904f38e1-7c0b-407c...@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
>>On Mar 9, 10:50=A0am, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
>>> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:11:24 -0500, p...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>>> >> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>>> >> brakes.
>>>
>>> 1) No, only requires locking to remove key from ignition
>>
>>To clarify, what he's saying is that if you turn off the ignition the
>>steering wheel will not lock unless you also remove the key.
>
>Incorrect. The steering wheel locks as soon as the ignition switch is turned
>to the position in which the key _can_ be removed, even if the key remains in
>the lock cylinder.
How old is the car you are driving???
For at least the last 10 years or more, the steering lock can NOT
engage without removing the key.
>>
>>
dpb
>
>> 2) Far better to have manual braking and no acceleration than burn out
>> brakes w/ continued acceleration
>>
>>>> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>>>> then you could shut it off?
>> Why not, indeed...
>>
>>>> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
>
> Some people have claimed that they tried, but could not. Are they
> telling the truth? Who knows. But take a look at the other thread
> here I just posted. You have a Toyota again in San Diego, with
> police involvement for a long time and from the reports so far, it
Just saw the driver say he was unfamiliar w/ the gearshift -- okay, so
who's car was it? If it was his as was indicated as he took it to the
dealership earlier for the fix, that's his bad...
Then, he followed that up w/ the astounding statement he thought (or
"didn't know if" may have been the actual words, I don't recall
precisely just now?) the car would flip if he did shift to
neutral...what in the world would possibly make one think something like
that? And, he eventually turned it off -- why wouldn't one think of
that before on one's own long before reaching 90 mph????
One good thing in this incident other than the doofus did escape is that
Toyota and DOT engineers are going to examine the particular vehicle
that did malfunction. Hopefully Toyota won't have a chance to clean it
up before independent parties are there for a real forensic examination.
--
Oren
>Then, he followed that up w/ the astounding statement he thought (or
>"didn't know if" may have been the actual words, I don't recall
>precisely just now?) the car would flip if he did shift to
>neutral...what in the world would possibly make one think something like
>that? And, he eventually turned it off -- why wouldn't one think of
>that before on one's own long before reaching 90 mph????
San Francisco got first vote. San Diego ended up with all the lawyers.
Harry K
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:21:15 GMT, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
??? I have 2005 Ford 500. Has the usual (for the past 30 years at
least) LOCK, OFF, RUN,Run Positions (may have another position to run
radio, etc, only). Locks the steering in the LOCK positon with the
key still in it. I'll bet almost all other cars do the same.
Harry K
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
Near as I could follow the clips, he wasn't told, and didn't try, to
turn it off before slowing way down.
This is the second car that Toyota has had for a good exam. First one
was sitting in its lot with smoking brakes. Never heard what they
found on that one.
Harry k
Ed Pawlowski
"Harry K" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> Near as I could follow the clips, he wasn't told, and didn't try, to
> turn it off before slowing way down.
>
> This is the second car that Toyota has had for a good exam. First one
> was sitting in its lot with smoking brakes. Never heard what they
> found on that one.
>
> Harry k
The news tonight had the recording of part of the 911 call:
Operator: Did you try shifting to neutral?
Driver: NO
He later said he was afraid to because he thought the car might flip. He
should have his license revoked.
George
Retroactively...
ransley
Home Owners Repair, got it.
The Daring Dufas
> in the world who aren't aware of how to fix a leaky faucet, or which
> way to turn a screw to tighten it.
>
> I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
> have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
> as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
> them.
>
Well, the world does need poets and English professors. *snicker*
TDD
Doug Miller
>I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
>have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
>as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
>them.
>
neutral -- as has happened to me twice -- *does* make me superior to those who
lack that good sense. <g>
FWIW, neither one of those was a Toyota. One was a Buick, the other a GMC
truck.
Harry K
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:23:34 -0500, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> in the world who aren't aware of how to fix a leaky faucet, or which
> way to turn a screw to tighten it.
>
> have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
> as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, with all the coverage of the problem on the news you think that an
owner of one of those cars _shouldn't_ have known about it _and_ the
solution to how to stop? Turning off the engine does not take a
genius, nor does shifting out of gear. Everyone out there who drives
knows how to do both.
Harry K
tra...@optonline.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, here we go again. I may have generalized when I implied all
cars work that way. But apparently you and Doug are over generalizing
too. I have two cars here, a MB and a Porsche and just tried it on
both of them and they work exactly as I described. You can turn the
ignition off, to the lock position, and the steering wheel will not
actually lock until the key is removed. When I remove the key I here
a clunk sound of the spring loaded lock mechanism and at that point,
if you turn the wheel a few degrees either way it seats and the wheel
no longer moves. I previously had a number of Pontiac Gran Prixs and
I'm pretty sure they worked that way as well. I've never encountered
one where the wheel locked without the key removed.
I'd be interested in what others find in their cars. One would think
this would be a basic safety feature, as you would not want the
steering wheel to lock easily in the emergency kind of situation we've
been talking about.
tra...@optonline.net
> "Harry K" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote
Interesting, I heard the replay of the 911 call and I remember it
differently. I heard the 911 operator ask if he tried shifting into
netural and it sounded to me like he avoided the question and
responded saying something about having trouble talking on his cell
phone. I didn't hear him say no and his avoiding the question sounded
suspicious to me. I only heard it once and could have gotten it
wrong.
Jack
LSMFT
How can somebody be too STUPID to shut the switch off.
--
LSFT
LSMFT
He was paid by GM to smear Toyota.
--
LSFT
jamesgangnc
>
> - Show quoted text -
This guy is just trying to cash in. Nothing wrong with his car.
Bob F
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:11:24 -0500, p4...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>
>> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so
>> turning off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away
>> with power brakes.
I have never owned a car that could not be turned off without locking the
steering wheel, or that the power brakes would not stop you at least once after
turning off the engine. Turning off the engine while moving merely removes the
power and the power steering. So the car takes a little more force to steer.
Even after exhausting the power brake vacuum reservoir, the brakes still work,
just not as strongly.
Tony Hwang
Driving a car with manual shift has an advantage.
In olden days we all had brakes w/o powe(vacuum) boost.
Doug Miller
>On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:59:35 GMT, spam...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <0b5fp5pkb8kvfjel9...@4ax.com>,
> Joh...@nowheremonfrere.com wrote:
>>>I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
>>>have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
>>>as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
>>>them.
>>>
>>No, but having the good sense to shift a runaway-accelerating auto into
>>neutral -- as has happened to me twice -- *does* make me superior to those who
>>lack that good sense. <g>
>>
>
Smarter than you, apparently, and obviously smarter than the knothead that
drove 30 miles -- THIRTY MILES -- with the throttle wide open. Each time it
happened to me, it took much less than a hundred yards to get the vehicle to a
full stop.
>
>>FWIW, neither one of those was a Toyota. One was a Buick, the other a GMC
>>truck.
>
>So, you aren't very smart when buying vehicles, either. Okay.
Did you take an extra dose of dumbass this morning?
Doug Miller
>On Mar 10, 5:55=A0am, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snetnospam.net> wrote:
>
>> He later said he was afraid to because he thought the car might flip. He
>> should have his license revoked.
>
>Interesting, I heard the replay of the 911 call and I remember it
>differently. I heard the 911 operator ask if he tried shifting into
>netural and it sounded to me like he avoided the question and
>responded saying something about having trouble talking on his cell
>phone. I didn't hear him say no and his avoiding the question sounded
>suspicious to me. I only heard it once and could have gotten it
>wrong.
Article in the paper this morning said the guy didn't shift into neutral
because he was afraid it "might slip into reverse".
Either way, he's a total idiot. How frigging stupid do you have to be to drive
for THIRTY F**KING MILES with a wide-open throttle, and not try shutting the
ignition off or shifting into neutral? And how is it that after thirty miles
of -- as he told the 911 operator -- "standing on the brakes" while the car
still continues accelerating, once the cop pulls up next to him and tells him
to stand on the brakes and apply the parking brake too, suddenly he's able to
get the car stopped quickly?
tra...@optonline.net
> I posted here because of the great number of posters, some of whom might
> have an opinion. I was right !!
>
> Why people take the time to reply to a post to say that "they personally
> do not care to reply" is beyond me.
>
> My cars are 2000 and 2003 GM products and the keys are on the steering
> wheel and when you turn the key off it locks the steering. Maybe if the
> key is in the dash it does not lock the steering just by turning it off.
Go take a look and tell us which it is. Either it only locks the
steering wheel when you remove the key or else it locks it when you
turn it to the lock position. All of the cars I've had that I can
recall required the key to be removed to lock.
>
> The guy in CA said he was afraid to take his hands off the steering
> wheel (I think).
>
> Sorry to have bothered the group, I will not be back.
jamesgangnc
>
> - Show quoted text -
It most likely will not lock unless the shifter is in park.
Art Todesco
> I posted here because of the great number of posters, some of whom might
> have an opinion. I was right !!
>
> Why people take the time to reply to a post to say that "they personally
> do not care to reply" is beyond me.
>
> My cars are 2000 and 2003 GM products and the keys are on the steering
> wheel and when you turn the key off it locks the steering. Maybe if the
> key is in the dash it does not lock the steering just by turning it off.
>
> wheel (I think).
>
> Sorry to have bothered the group, I will not be back.
Please turn off the orange HTML stuff,
it's almost impossible to read.
Ok, I got up off my can and went 17
stairs to the garage where there are 2
GMs ... well, only one today, the other
is presently out. But, I then had to
hike back upstairs to get the keys. I
always leave the keys in the ignition
when the car is in the garage, but for
some reason they came upstairs and got
put on the table. Anyway, the 2002
Trailblazer column mounted key has 4
positions in this order.
1. Off and key removable
2. Accessory position .. key not removable
3. On
4. Spring return start
I started the car 4 then 3 and then put
it in drive. I then turned the key to 2
... engine off, key not removable, but
accessories on.
A lot can depend on whether you have a
column mounted gear selector or console
mounted. The Trailblazer has a console
selector. BTW, the gear selector also
locks under some conditions, but I
didn't "test" that. It actually locks
the little button that allows the
selector to be moved.
Now, many of the newer cars have a
pushbutton to start turn on and start
the car. It detects the presence of you
electronic key which doesn't have to be
touching the car .... obviously, some
electronics in this type of switch.
Seeing the Toyota problems would make be
scared to have one of these pushbutton
things. It also makes me wonder how
much of the gear selector is done
electronically, even though we move that
big lever.
Also, I just heard the noon news and the
911 tape from CA. The guy said, "My
breaks are burnt and I'm trying to shut
it off." The Asheville news person said
that the car finally lost power
(whatever that means) and the car rolled
into the squad car.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
> brakes.
> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
> then you could shut it off?
>
> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!
Essentially, the cars are death traps straight out of a Stephen King
novel.
Why is there no mass hysteria over this?
Why do we not hear ANYTHING about shifting into neutral on the news?
Who the hell at Toyota allowed a car with an infinite death loop in
the programming to get out to the public?
The computer thinks you want to go fast, and you're flooring the gas
pedal. To protect itself, it won't let you shift out of drive. You
can't shut the engine off either because there's no "accessory"
position on the ignition switch anymore; it's either ON or LOCK.
These are the kinds of oversights a high-school level computer
programmer would make.
Tony
> I posted here because of the great number of posters, some of whom might
> have an opinion. I was right !!
>
> Why people take the time to reply to a post to say that "they personally
> do not care to reply" is beyond me.
>
> My cars are 2000 and 2003 GM products and the keys are on the steering
> wheel and when you turn the key off it locks the steering. Maybe if the
> key is in the dash it does not lock the steering just by turning it off.
>
> The guy in CA said he was afraid to take his hands off the steering
> wheel (I think).
>
> Sorry to have bothered the group, I will not be back.
Oh, OK. Then I won't bother to tell you to post in plain text.. BLACK
not orange! And you don't need to include that attached file, your sig
file already shows up.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> Article in the paper this morning said the guy didn't shift into neutral
> because he was afraid it "might slip into reverse".
UNBELEIVABLE!! This is a LIFE and DEATH situation we're talking about
here.
Who gives a rat's ass about blowing up the engine or tearing out the
transmission when the alternative is DYING or KILLING
someone???!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?
People who place more importance on the condition of their car over
their lives and the lives of others, deserve what they get.
If they didn't stop their car because they were afraid of damaging it,
kill someone, and live to tell about it, they deserve to go to jail
like any other murderer.
Cheri
news:d18880bb-fc88-4a7c...@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
===========
I didn't believe him then, and I don't believe him now.
Cheri
tra...@optonline.net
> <mkirs...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
I think maybe you give a lot of these people credit for having more
brains than they do. Like how about he wasn't thinking that putting
it into reverse would blow out the drivetrain. He could think that
the car would go instantly to 94mph in reverse and he'd be killed by
the sudden g force. LOL
I agree a lot about this story stinks. One of the most interesting
being the car was apparently on the recall list, but when he took it
to the dealer they said it wasn't and turned him away. Then suddenly
this happens. Could be the guy knew it was on the recall list and
figured this was a good way to try to make a case or at least be a
media star.
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmmm...now you have me wondering. Gonna check it the next time I am
in either vehicle.
Things you know all your life and then find they are wrong...won't be
the first time.
In any case the point is moot as it is never necessary (AFAIK) to go
all the way to the lock position to turn the engine off. I wonder if
it can be done while moving. Gonna try that as well.
Harry K
Harry K
> In article <8ubfp5h4km7sqjaptkj0fc1bu8akk0j...@4ax.com>, John...@nowheremonfrere.com wrote:
> >On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:59:35 GMT, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
> >wrote:
>
> >>In article <0b5fp5pkb8kvfjel9gmv4eu5g43oibn...@4ax.com>,
> > John...@nowheremonfrere.com wrote:
> >>>I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
> >>>have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
> >>>as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
> >>>them.
>
> >>No, but having the good sense to shift a runaway-accelerating auto into
> >>neutral -- as has happened to me twice -- *does* make me superior to those who
> >>lack that good sense. <g>
>
> >This clearly indicates you are no where near as smart as you think.
>
> Smarter than you, apparently, and obviously smarter than the knothead that
> drove 30 miles -- THIRTY MILES -- with the throttle wide open. Each time it
> happened to me, it took much less than a hundred yards to get the vehicle to a
> full stop.
>
>
>
> >>FWIW, neither one of those was a Toyota. One was a Buick, the other a GMC
> >>truck.
>
> >So, you aren't very smart when buying vehicles, either. Okay.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like he opened a full case of it.
Harry K
Harry K
The "according to some people" are only those that are speculating.
There have been abzero reliable cites to that.
Harry K
Ed Pawlowski
<Joh...@nowheremonfrere.com> wrote
>
> I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
> have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
> as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
> them.
>
But when you are travelling at 90 mph and the operator tell you to shift
into neutral, do it. Takes few brain cells for that.
That aside, if you have a Toyota you'd be following with interest the
problems and have seen the news media, Consumers Reports and others showing
how to stop the car.
No, I don't know everything, but in 19 minutes I'd figure out how to stop a
car. He is 61 years old and probably has many years behinds the wheel. WTF
has he been doing? I've said it here before, good drivers practice in
their mind what to do in an emergency and they are equipped to react. Sure,
some panic sets in, but the dispatcher told him what to do. It was on the
news last night when they played the recording of the call.
Maybe I am superior now that you bring it up.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 9, 4:35 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:21:15 GMT, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >In article <904f38e1-7c0b-407c-a5ab-69a389d7f...@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>> >>On Mar 9, 10:50=A0am, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
>> >>> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>> >>> > On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:11:24 -0500, p...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>>
>> >>> >> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>> >>> >> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>> >>> >> brakes.
>>
>> >>> 1) No, only requires locking to remove key from ignition
>>
>> >>To clarify, what he's saying is that if you turn off the ignition the
>> >>steering wheel will not lock unless you also remove the key.
>>
>> >Incorrect. The steering wheel locks as soon as the ignition switch is turned
>> >to the position in which the key _can_ be removed, even if the key remains in
>> >the lock cylinder.
>>
>> How old is the car you are driving???
>> For at least the last 10 years or more, the steering lock can NOT
>> engage without removing the key.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>??? I have 2005 Ford 500. Has the usual (for the past 30 years at
>least) LOCK, OFF, RUN,Run Positions (may have another position to run
>radio, etc, only). Locks the steering in the LOCK positon with the
>key still in it. I'll bet almost all other cars do the same.
>
>Harry K
My Mercury Mystique (1996) and Chrysler PT Cruiser (2005) do not lock
the steering with the key in the ignition.
Nor did my 1995 Pontiac or 1988 Chrysler
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<e...@snetnospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Harry K" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>
>> Near as I could follow the clips, he wasn't told, and didn't try, to
>> turn it off before slowing way down.
>>
>> This is the second car that Toyota has had for a good exam. First one
>> was sitting in its lot with smoking brakes. Never heard what they
>> found on that one.
>>
>> Harry k
>
>The news tonight had the recording of part of the 911 call:
>Operator: Did you try shifting to neutral?
>Driver: NO
>
>He later said he was afraid to because he thought the car might flip. He
>should have his license revoked.
I heard "might flip into reverse" - still stupid.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>On Mar 9, 10:11 am, p...@webtv.net (Jack) wrote:
>> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so turning
>> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>> brakes.
>
>
>
>> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>> then you could shut it off?
>>
>> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
>
>According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
>neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
>programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!
Not true of Toyota or any car I've ever driven -or worked on. The ONLY
car in history that I am aware of that could NOT be shifted into
neutral at speed was Packhard with Ultramatic transmission in the
early-mid fifties.
>
>Essentially, the cars are death traps straight out of a Stephen King
>novel.
>
>Why is there no mass hysteria over this?
>
>Why do we not hear ANYTHING about shifting into neutral on the news?
>
>Who the hell at Toyota allowed a car with an infinite death loop in
>the programming to get out to the public?
>
>The computer thinks you want to go fast, and you're flooring the gas
>pedal. To protect itself, it won't let you shift out of drive. You
>can't shut the engine off either because there's no "accessory"
>position on the ignition switch anymore; it's either ON or LOCK.
>
>These are the kinds of oversights a high-school level computer
>programmer would make.
If it was true - which id most definitely is NOT.
Stormin Mormon
destroy the engine. Might not be a bad thing, compared to
slamming a tree.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:tvagp5trvgi2p96rt...@4ax.com...
Ed Pawlowski
"Jack" <p4...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:25715-4B9...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
I posted here because of the great number of posters, some of whom might
have an opinion. I was right !!
Why people take the time to reply to a post to say that "they personally
do not care to reply" is beyond me.
My cars are 2000 and 2003 GM products and the keys are on the steering
wheel and when you turn the key off it locks the steering. Maybe if the
key is in the dash it does not lock the steering just by turning it off.
The guy in CA said he was afraid to take his hands off the steering
wheel (I think).
Sorry to have bothered the group, I will not be back.
I have a 2001 LeSabre. You can turn the key to the "off " position and the wheel will NOT lock. When you turn it to the "lock" position it will lock even with the key in the lock. Sorry, but it can be turned off safely.The guy in CA was an idiot. He was afraid to shift to neutral and said so.
Ed Pawlowski
<Joh...@nowheremonfrere.com> wrote
>>Maybe I am superior now that you bring it up.
>
> I'm sure all your ideas work perfectly in your armchair.
>
They do, thank you. I got where I am today by making more right decisions
than wrong ones.
Ed Pawlowski
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote
> Interesting, I heard the replay of the 911 call and I remember it
> differently. I heard the 911 operator ask if he tried shifting into
> netural and it sounded to me like he avoided the question and
> responded saying something about having trouble talking on his cell
> phone. I didn't hear him say no and his avoiding the question sounded
> suspicious to me. I only heard it once and could have gotten it
> wrong.
NBC news had the subtitle also and it was a plain NO.
tra...@optonline.net
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:08:48 -0800 (PST), mkirs...@rochester.rr.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, from everything I've heard so far, no one is saying that any of
the Toyotas are built so that they can't be shifted into neutral while
moving. I still think you need a full investigation that includes
knowing how the particular transmissions are designed, what interlocks
they have, looking at the actual remains of the cars, etc. But
clearly in this latest incident, the guy is NOT claiming that he tried
to put it in neutral, but couldn't.
On another note, there was an AP story today that says Toyota, like
other manufacturers, has a black box type system built into the air
bag system. In the event of air bag deployment it captures key data
from a few seconds before the crash until a couple seconds after the
crash. While the other manufacturers have been open about their
system and make it known how to access it, Toyota has continually
stone-walled anyone getting access to it. Even in court cases over
the years, Toyota has responded to requests with sheets of data with
most fields blank, etc. They have also given different accounts of
what info the system actually captures. For example at one time they
said it didn't capture braking info, then later did, etc. It
appears the system does capture a lot of info though which could be
useful in figuring out what is going on, like throttle position,
brake, speed, acceleration, etc. The story also said that as of now,
there is only one notebook PC in the US capable of accessing the
information from the cars.
Harry K
I would expect to destroy the tranny first. Mythbusters tried that
and found out that in at least the cars they tested, it could not be
forced into reverse.
Harry K
Rick Brandt
> Racing engine, shift into reverse. Probably throw a rod, and
> destroy the engine. Might not be a bad thing, compared to
> slamming a tree.
While one is understandably hesitant to actually try it, multiple mechanics
have told me that modern cars will simply not engage reverse while the car
is moving forward past a minimal speed.
HeyBub
>> I do not have one of the key-less cars with the start button so
>> turning
>> off the car would 1)lock the steering wheel and 2)do away with power
>> brakes.
>>
>> Why not put the car in neutral, and the brake would stop the car, and
>> then you could shut it off?
>>
>> Can the problem cars not be shifted into neutral when this happens?
>>
>>
Well, it can on MY car. I routinely shift into neutral many times a day,
sometimes at speeds over 50 MPH!
'Course I have a manual, 5-speed, transmission...
jamesgangnc
I did it accidentally once on an american product. The car jerked and
then freewheeled after that. There was no damage to the engine or
tranmission. I suspect they have started to build protection into
them.
Jack
Tony
> "According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
> neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
> programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!"
>
> NEUTRAL!!!
>
> You do not like the color of my print ... Don't read it.
Damn, he said he would not be back.
knock knock
who's there?
Orange.
Orange who?
Orange you glad I use black text!
Tony
I do it all the time on my 2000 chevy 3500 van, with an automatic
transmission and my 2002 Saturn SL2, also automatic. There are a couple
mile long declines I drive on and often take it out of gear and coast.
bud--
>
> I agree a lot about this story stinks. One of the most interesting
> being the car was apparently on the recall list, but when he took it
> to the dealer they said it wasn't and turned him away. Then suddenly
> this happens. Could be the guy knew it was on the recall list and
> figured this was a good way to try to make a case or at least be a
> media star.
I believe it was a 2008 Prius.
Probably had a recall for floor mat that _might_ interfere with the
accelerator pedal. I believe the 'victim' said that didn't happen.
Only other Prius recall I have heard about is the 2010 (new model) with
a brake hesitation which I believe was fixed in software. (Far as I know
brakes were always available if the pedal was pushed harder.)
Prius has not (so far) been in any of the acceleration recalls.
I also have some major questions about this one.
--
bud--
The Daring Dufas
If people knew that a certain brand of automobile was spying on them,
I'm sure many people would avoid that brand. I'm very distrustful of
the GM OnStar system especially after the government has gotten its
hands on GM. I know it's already being used to track certain owners.
Certain governments don't want their diplomats driving such cars.
TDD
Bob F
My '94 Caravan with an electronically controlled automatic does the same.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> My '94 Caravan with an electronically controlled automatic does the same.
What, we don't have any readers here with a toyota prius?
I know a couple of prius owners and they're not willing to do a full-
throttle shift-to-neutral test on their cars.
I really want to see if the stuff I've been reading about the computer
not letting the transmission shift into neutral to protect the engine
are true.
Harry K
And still ignoring the FACT that no one has cited anything showing
they _cannot_ be shifted to reverse - only speculation.
I guess when you are stupid, it is easier to remain that way rather
than trying to learn... at least it seems so in his case.
Harry K
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
2005 Ford 500 - shiftable into neutral, key turns off (doesn't lock
wheel), etc.
Harry K
Harry K
Almosst certainly _not_ true but it would be nice to have an official
source.
No need for the Prius owners to do a full throttle test, just driving
normally is good enough. The claim from the "speculators" is that
they cannot be shifted while moving.
Of course when it is proven that they can be shifted while moving they
will then claim "but can it be done on the 5th Tuesday of a month"
Harry K
cl...@snyder.on.ca
The law REQUIRES they can be put into neutral
>
>On another note, there was an AP story today that says Toyota, like
>other manufacturers, has a black box type system built into the air
>bag system. In the event of air bag deployment it captures key data
>from a few seconds before the crash until a couple seconds after the
>crash. While the other manufacturers have been open about their
>system and make it known how to access it, Toyota has continually
>stone-walled anyone getting access to it. Even in court cases over
>the years, Toyota has responded to requests with sheets of data with
>most fields blank, etc. They have also given different accounts of
>what info the system actually captures. For example at one time they
>said it didn't capture braking info, then later did, etc. It
>appears the system does capture a lot of info though which could be
>useful in figuring out what is going on, like throttle position,
>brake, speed, acceleration, etc. The story also said that as of now,
>there is only one notebook PC in the US capable of accessing the
>information from the cars.
I doubt THAT is true. Any forensic computer tech could get the data
out of the box. Might not be able to make sense of it though--. It's
likely encoded - but if an enterprising hacker WANTED to know badly
enough, a couple days work would crack the code -guaranteed.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
That is true.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
Not true. The engine protects itself with a "rev limitter" which
selectively miss-fires the engine to limit speed to a "safe" level by
cutting out fuel injection (not spark)
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Only two things are infinite. The universe, and stupid.
Ed Pawlowski
You do not like the color of my print ... Don't read it.
Two comments:
1. Newsgroups are supposed to be plain text as it eliminates a lot of
problems between news readers
2. You say "Don't read it" but in fact, many can't read it because of the
light color. You may think it look snazzy, but it hurts the eyes of others.
OK, one ore comment.
We come hear to learn and to help. If you want to be treaded special, it is
not going to happen. You are very welcome to join the discussions and
start new ones but to have a combative attitude you'll spoil your own fun.
Learn how to do plain text on Web TV. It can be done.
willshak
> "According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
> neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
> programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!"
>
> This is what I was hopping someone could tell me. YOU CAN NOT PUT IT IN
> NEUTRAL!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
> Nicholson
I don't know what the problem could be
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>Jack wrote the following:
>> "According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
>> neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
>> programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!"
>>
>> This is what I was hopping someone could tell me. YOU CAN NOT PUT IT IN
>> NEUTRAL!!!
>>
>> You do not like the color of my print ... Don't read it.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
>> Nicholson
>
>I don't know what the problem could be
Get the year, make and VIN of the car that can NOT be shifted into
neutral. I'd really like to know.
According to what I"VE found, it is a REQUIREMENT that they CAN be
shifted into neutral. Law in both USA and Canada.
Looking for cite - but I know [problems with the old Packhard
transmission brought the situation to light back in the fifties.
Jim Yanik
news:iMydnTiP48LsKwTW...@supernews.com:
> Jack wrote the following:
>> "According to some replies I have seen, the car WILL NOT shift into
>> neutral, even though you put the shift lever there. The computer is
>> programmed to leave the car in gear to prevent damage to the engine!!!"
but many modern EFI motors have rev limiting programmed into the ECU.
it cuts off the fuel flow at a preset RPM limit.
You won't damage them that way.
still better to blow up a motor than to crash into a solid object at 100
MPH. you can always replace a motor.
>>
>> This is what I was hopping someone could tell me. YOU CAN NOT PUT IT IN
>> NEUTRAL!!!
good reason to drive stick shift.
it's a really rare failure when you can't put in the clutch.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Ed Pawlowski
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote
>
> good reason to drive stick shift.
> it's a really rare failure when you can't put in the clutch.
Happened on my '62 Corvair. Engine mount broke and slackened the clutch
cable. I still managed to shift gears and drive the car home, just could
not come to a stop. Yes, kiddies, it is possible to shift both up and down
and not use the clutch. It is one of those things you have to practice,
just like shifting into neutral in an emergency.
tra...@optonline.net
> On Mar 11, 9:43 am, mkirs...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>
> > On Mar 11, 11:59 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > My '94 Caravan with an electronically controlled automatic does the same.
>
> > What, we don't have any readers here with a toyota prius?
>
> > I know a couple of prius owners and they're not willing to do a full-
> > throttle shift-to-neutral test on their cars.
>
> > I really want to see if the stuff I've been reading about the computer
> > not letting the transmission shift into neutral to protect the engine
> > are true.
>
> Almosst certainly _not_ true but it would be nice to have an official
> source.
Yes, I think we all would like to see a link to any credible source.
All I've seen is:
A - speculation from various individuals that it might be possible
that some of the Toyotas can't be shifted into neutral under runaway
conditions
B - some of the people driving the runaway cars have claimed they
could not shift them into neutral
C - Toyota has said at least on the Lexus that they can be shifted
into neutral at any time. They may have also said it about more cars
than the Lexus, not sure about that.
If there were an intentionally designed system to prevent shifting
into neutral while moving, I would think there is a 99% chance we
would have heard about it by now.
LSMFT
>
>
> "Harry K" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>
>> Near as I could follow the clips, he wasn't told, and didn't try, to
>> turn it off before slowing way down.
>>
>> This is the second car that Toyota has had for a good exam. First one
>> was sitting in its lot with smoking brakes. Never heard what they
>> found on that one.
>>
>> Harry k
>
> The news tonight had the recording of part of the 911 call:
> Operator: Did you try shifting to neutral?
> Driver: NO
>
> He later said he was afraid to because he thought the car might flip.
> He should have his license revoked.
How can somebody be too STUPID to shut the switch off.
--
LSFT
LSMFT
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:23:34 -0500, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/10/2010 5:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Harry K" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>> Near as I could follow the clips, he wasn't told, and didn't try, to
>>>> turn it off before slowing way down.
>>>>
>>>> This is the second car that Toyota has had for a good exam. First one
>>>> was sitting in its lot with smoking brakes. Never heard what they
>>>> found on that one.
>>>>
>>>> Harry k
>>>
>>> The news tonight had the recording of part of the 911 call:
>>> Operator: Did you try shifting to neutral?
>>> Driver: NO
>>>
>>> He later said he was afraid to because he thought the car might flip. He
>>> should have his license revoked.
>>
>
> You guys are pretty hysterical. There are probably BILLIONS of drivers
> in the world who aren't aware of how to fix a leaky faucet, or which
> way to turn a screw to tighten it.
>
> I'm guessing that you aren't perfect and all knowing, either. You just
> have different areas of interest than some other people. This may come
> as a shock, but that doesn't make you in any way superior to any of
> them.
tra...@optonline.net
> to shift into neutral is connected to the malfunction in some way. Or,
> perhaps not. You can't rule it out without correctly and completely
> diagnosing what is causing the runaway problem.
I agree 100%. I've said several times in the various threads here
that you need a thorough independent investigation of the cars
involved which includes looking at how the transmissions are designed
and also analyzing the actual transmissions. An investigation similar
to what the NTSB does for an airplane crash.
But what I was responding to here was someone making a post saying
that they had scene reports that the transmissions were actually
designed so that they could not be shifted into neutral while
moving. I have surely haven't seen that and would like to see a link
if the person has it.
On another note, I read an article yesterday that said attributed the
fatal Lexus crash with the CA partrol officer driving to a stuck
floormat. That's the first and only time I've seen a cause listed,
so not sure as to the accuracy.
>
> I'm also not sure how many people, in the midst of a crisis, would be
> quick to assume that turning off the key would NOT lock the steering
> and make things worse.- Hide quoted text -
>
Yes, that could be a factor. BUT, the longer these drives go on, the
less likely you would think that would be. The latest guy drove 20
miles. Surely in that time, a few things would happen. One would
be that you'd very likely have a straight section of highway and/or a
section where you had some space off to the sides, etc. So, if you
shut it off and the steering wheel did lock, it would still seem to be
a far preferable choice to just continuing to ride along out of
control not knowing what was up ahead. Even if the wheel locked, by
applying the brakes, you'd very likely stop before having a fatal
crash. That choice sure looks good to me compared with just going
along out of control.
Harry K
> willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote innews:iMydnTiP48LsKwTW...@supernews.com:
But is does happen :). I blew the clutch servo in my F150 20 miles
out in the boonies at a stop sign. Got it going by starting in gear
and drove it back home over gravel/paved/major highway. Of course I
know how to clutchless shift...
Harry K
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
Same here. I mentally tried to come up with a scenario where
continuing to runaway would be better than shutting off the engine
even it it locked the steering. Can't do it.
On a side note, I tried the 'shut off engine' and 'lock the wheel
without removing key' in my Ford 500. No problem shifting to nuetral
or shutting it off under fairly hard acceleration. The locking
without removing key? Dunno. The steering was so stiff at a stop
that I couldn't turn the wheel far enough to tell if it was locked.
Harry K
HeyBub
>
> On another note, I read an article yesterday that said attributed the
> fatal Lexus crash with the CA partrol officer driving to a stuck
> floormat. That's the first and only time I've seen a cause listed,
> so not sure as to the accuracy.
If the California Highway Patrol are driving Lexus automobiles, well, that
explains a lot.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> But what I was responding to here was someone making a post saying
> that they had scene reports that the transmissions were actually
> designed so that they could not be shifted into neutral while
> moving. I have surely haven't seen that and would like to see a link
> if the person has it.
There are several instances of this being stated on answers.yahoo.com:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100308222153AAXey3P
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100309153458AA9gkGx
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100311052352AAIFak7
...to name a few.
Yes, I know that's not exactly an authoratative source of information
but it's the best I can find. I tend to give some credence to
consistent intelligent-sounding responses. I take them with fewer
grains of salt.
tra...@optonline.net
> On Mar 12, 10:28 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > But what I was responding to here was someone making a post saying
> > that they had scene reports that the transmissions were actually
> > designed so that they could not be shifted into neutral while
> > moving. I have surely haven't seen that and would like to see a link
> > if the person has it.
>
> ...to name a few.
>
> Yes, I know that's not exactly an authoratative source of information
> but it's the best I can find. I tend to give some credence to
> consistent intelligent-sounding responses. I take them with fewer
> grains of salt.
Good grief. Not exactly an authoratative source? In yahoo answers
anyone can post anything. Those threads are nothing but pure
speculation without a single reference to any credible source of
info. And besides that, it simply makes no sense. Why the hell
would anyone purposefully design a tranny so that it could not be
shifted into neutral while driving? Engines today with electronic
controls have rev limiters that would prevent the engine from over
revving. Plus, I don't recall hearing reports about cars blowing up
all over the place because they can be put into neutral. What about
all the manual tranny cars?
tra...@optonline.net
> On Mar 12, 11:03 am, mkirs...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>
> > On Mar 12, 10:28 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > > But what I was responding to here was someone making a post saying
> > > that they had scene reports that the transmissions were actually
> > > designed so that they could not be shifted into neutral while
> > > moving. I have surely haven't seen that and would like to see a link
> > > if the person has it.
>
> > ...to name a few.
>
> > Yes, I know that's not exactly an authoratative source of information
> > but it's the best I can find. I tend to give some credence to
> > consistent intelligent-sounding responses. I take them with fewer
> > grains of salt.
>
> Good grief. Not exactly an authoratative source? In yahoo answers
> anyone can post anything. Those threads are nothing but pure
> speculation without a single reference to any credible source of
> info. And besides that, it simply makes no sense. Why the hell
> would anyone purposefully design a tranny so that it could not be
> shifted into neutral while driving? Engines today with electronic
> controls have rev limiters that would prevent the engine from over
> revving. Plus, I don't recall hearing reports about cars blowing up
> all over the place because they can be put into neutral. What about
> all the manual tranny cars?
Here's the latest news on the San Diego runaway Prius guy, from Fox:
On Monday, James Sikes called 911 to report that he was behind the
wheel of an out-of-control Toyota Prius going 94 mph on a freeway near
San Diego. Twenty-three minutes later, a California Highway Patrol
officer helped guide him to a stop, a rescue that was captured on
videotape.
Since then, it's been learned that:
— Sikes filed for bankruptcy in San Diego in 2008. According to
documents, he was more than $700,000 in debt and roughly five months
behind in payments on his Prius;
— In 2001, Sikes filed a police report with the Merced County
Sheriff's Department for $58,000 in stolen property, including
jewelry, a digital video camera and equipment and $24,000 in cash;
— Sikes has hired a law firm, though it has indicated he has no plans
to sue Toyota;
— Sikes won $55,000 on television's "The Big Spin" in 2006, Fox40.com
reports, and the real estate agent has boasted of celebrity clients
such as Constance Ramos of "Extreme Home Makeover.
terry
>
> But it oes happen :). I blew the clutch servo in my F150 20 miles
> out in the boonies at a stop sign. Got it going by starting in gear
> and drove it back home over gravel/paved/major highway. Of course I
>
Harry I agree. Having learned to drive on a vintage 1926 Daimler
hearse (used as an ambulance and hearse in the UK during WWII) which
had a 'crash box' (that's a manual with no synchromesh) back in the
1950s, have done the same thing you describe.
That vehicle had a handle sticking out front for starting the engine,
which had been changed during WWII to a 1938 model, Bedford (that was
the UK version of GMC) straight six. Years later we drove a 1963 GMC
pickup in North America and its engine looked identical to the 1938
engine!
With clutch inoperative starting on a slight down-slope if possible
(even the slope to the side of the road may help) and continuing in
gear all time, because of no clutch control, one can get home to then
work on the problem. Did that twice.
Also got a V.W 'bug' home one time with a broken throttle
cable .............. a piece of string from the driver's window run
around to the back of the vehicle actuated the carburetor. It was
about 8 miles home and just drove along with the traffic 'pulling the
string'.
Had a diesel VW Golf run away on me (in traffic) once; breathing it's
own crankcase fumes on a hot day. Knew instantly what had happened!
Declutched, engine raced like it was going to break apart, pulled into
side of the road and with all brakes hard on stalled the engine by
bringing in the clutch (hoping nothing would break!). It didn't and
when things cooled down drove to the dealership who had the part
(nothing more than a modified breather tube) to fix problem.
I think a lot of the problem is not knowing your vehicle; although
this fly by wire stuff is somewhat scary. Recall meeting a factory
manager one time with a broken down vehicle out in the country, we got
him going to the nearest town by using a junk war surplus radio
capacitor as a substitute for the one across the ignition distributor
points. Nowadays my son plugs in his laptop to 'tune' his engine!
cl...@snyder.on.ca
>We are discussing cars that are malfunctioning. Perhaps not being able
>to shift into neutral is connected to the malfunction in some way. Or,
>perhaps not. You can't rule it out without correctly and completely
>diagnosing what is causing the runaway problem.
>
>I'm also not sure how many people, in the midst of a crisis, would be
>quick to assume that turning off the key would NOT lock the steering
>and make things worse.
Everone is looking for an electrical or electronic boogeyman to blame
- and I can tell you, absolutely and without any doubt, there is NO
electrical or electronic failure that could POSSIBLY make it
impossible to shift the vehicle to neutral, as the neutral control is
STRICTLY MECHANICAL. No need to diagnose what caused the runaway
problem, because there can be NO inter-related issues.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
That was given as the cause the day afeter the crash It had a winter
floormat from a fifferent model installed OVER TOP OF the original
equipment floor mat. It did not fit right, even if it had been
installed the way it was supposed to be (which is with no other
floor-mat underneath it)
cl...@snyder.on.ca
And without a clutch it is still very easy to knock a standard
transmission into neutral.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
It's all "i've been told" that it "may be".
Absolutely no credibility at all.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Mar 12, 12:34 pm, Harry K <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> But it oes happen :). I blew the clutch servo in my F150 20 miles
>> out in the boonies at a stop sign. Got it going by starting in gear
>> and drove it back home over gravel/paved/major highway. Of course I
>> know how to clutch-less shift...
>>
>Harry I agree. Having learned to drive on a vintage 1926 Daimler
>hearse (used as an ambulance and hearse in the UK during WWII) which
>had a 'crash box' (that's a manual with no synchromesh) back in the
>1950s, have done the same thing you describe.
>
>That vehicle had a handle sticking out front for starting the engine,
>which had been changed during WWII to a 1938 model, Bedford (that was
>the UK version of GMC) straight six. Years later we drove a 1963 GMC
>pickup in North America and its engine looked identical to the 1938
>engine!
Up to 1962, the engine WAS the same old stove-bolt 6. (235 and 261) In
1963 the new engines came on stream (194, and 230 - eventually also
250 inch)
tra...@optonline.net
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:56:20 -0500, sa...@dog.com wrote:
Excuse me if I doubt that you have the personal experience with the
design of every model of Toyota made over the last 7 years to be able
to make that blanket statement. It may have a high probability of
being true, but clearly you are over reaching here and just discredit
yourself.
>No need to diagnose what caused the runaway
> problem, because there can be NO inter-related issues.-
Yes there is.. Because cars are not supposed to just randomly go to
full throttle by themselves. Whether it's because of sticking floor
mats, sticking throttles or an electronic problem, the root cause
needs to be found so that these cars can be fixed and the potentially
fatal problem avoided in future automobiles. Would you just sweep an
airline crash under the carpet too?
Tony
I suppose he could be reported to web TV for using other than plain text
where it is not allowed, but it's much easier if the offender simply
complies with the rules.
Tony
At a job with a brand new van, 3 on the floor, the clutch was a real
SOB. It was so bad that my knee started giving me pain. I tested
others and none of them were so difficult to disengage the clutch but
the dealer and my boss denied anything was wrong. OK, so I used the
clutch to stop and start only. From gear to gear did it without the
clutch. After some time something happened to first gear. Couldn't get
it into first until it came to a full stop, and then sometimes had to go
to another gear and back to first. It ended up going into the tranny
shop at least 5 times and they never could fix the problem. Everything
looked good, synchronizers looked like new but they changed it anyway.
Still never worked right... for the other employees that used the clutch
anyway. For me I could still go from 2nd to 1st without the clutch.