Railway ties oozing creosote
Mamba
the hot sun this past weekend, old tars starting softening on the surface,
and folks tracked creosote up onto my deck. I can sand it off the deck, but
is there any way to treat the surface of these ties to prevent this?
Tearing up the risers would be somewhere between inconvenient and really
hard.
Tnx
ransley
I dought it, maybe cover them with 1" treated, screwed on.
Pete C.
Visit your materials place and get a bucket of stone dust. Apply a thick
layer of stone dust on the ties while they're hot and oozing. Pretty
much the same idea as the chip seal they do on roads.
Red
You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted
use product, right?
Red
hal...@aol.com
> You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted
> use product, right?
>
> Red
its unlikely to be creosote, in newer ties
older ties are less likely to bleed.
i heard creosote is no longer used in railroad ties
Mamba
news:5c9e64f2-e446-4f76...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Red
---------------
Well, they were resold to me by the local farm supply store in rural WA. I
certainly wouldn't buy them again, for my current reasons and because of the
environmental issues. Some of my bunch are perhaps older, as they seem bone
dry on the outside. They were used in full length as borders for the steps.
Some are quite smooth on the outside, and these are the ones I selected to
use as risers - they are also the ones with the "surface" creosote. Sadly,
I now have this 50' walkway with uniform ties as borders and step risders,
and 4 or 5 of them will need a different treatment. It was looking pretty
good too.
As an aside on this, wonder if there's any restrictions on the sale of the
old ones they tear up. I drive past a BNSF fail yard every weekend, and
they have stacks of them (hundreds, maybe thousands) with a big "4 sale"
sign painted on the side. Sure hope nobody would try to use them for a
cheap dock or anything like that.
Boden
If you have a cement manufacturer nearby get a load of "crusher dust,"
the stuff that is produced as a byproduct of Portland cement
manufacturing. I've found that it is a bit better than plain stone dust
for this purpose.
aussiblu
or somewhere else? Remember this is the Internet and it has no
borders. I'm from Western Australia myself and also have local
creosote soaked railway sleepers as a retaining wall but no
bleeding problems.
--
Regards
Blue
Remove ZX from email address to reply directly.
Red
>
> You do know that creosote is now listed as toxic and is a restricted
> use product, right?
>
> Red
>
> ---------------
> Well, they were resold to me by the local farm supply store in rural WA. I
> certainly wouldn't buy them again, for my current reasons and because of the
> environmental issues.
>
> As an aside on this, wonder if there's any restrictions on the sale of the
> old ones they tear up. I drive past a BNSF fail yard every weekend, and
> they have stacks of them (hundreds, maybe thousands) with a big "4 sale"
> sign painted on the side. Sure hope nobody would try to use them for a
> cheap dock or anything like that.
The seller does not know what you will be using them for and probably
doesn't want to know. There are a lot of uses where people do not
come in contact with the creosote and are probably safe for that
usage. Rural barbwire fence corner posts come to mind. When you
mentioned it being tracked onto your deck that raised a flag in my
mind as possibly getting into the house also - something I would worry
about.
Red
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political
movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and
ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the
dreaded "leaching".
The ban is on using it to treat wood members, there is no restriction
on selling and using already treated salvaged members. Any RR ties
for sale will almost always be the creosoted ones and likely will be
for a long while to come.
Age of RR ties is no gaurantee that they will, or won't, bleed. I
have retaining walls (5 ft high) and border edgings from RR ties that
are 20 years old that have a few that still bleed. The ties were
probably a lot older than that when I bought them.
The OP's problem is with tracking it. All that I can think of is to
either cover it up somehow or replace the ones that bleed. In my
case, it is the odor on a hot day that is a minor problem.
Harry K
Red
>
> The "Oh my God, Creosote!!, panic, run" is/was nothing but a political
> movement. Yes, you could have health problems if you chewed up and
> ate enough of the treated wood but short of that, no. Same with the
> dreaded "leaching".
>
The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having
oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects
(capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do
I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe?
Reno
looks of. Less messy and longer lasting than the powder type solutions.
stu
Do they mention any dose or exposure level?
Red
> "Red" <RedA...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
No, but I assume as with all products it would vary with each
individual. Some may never be affected and other's could be affected
with minimal contact.
Harry K
As I said. It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and
mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the
playground. That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even
though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem.
One of the problems was the ?arsenic? content (may have been one of
the other highly dangerous poisons) in spite of the fact that many
regions have that chemical as a natural portion (very slight) of the
drinking water.
The truth is that almost _everything_ is carcinogenic given a large
enough doseage. Even water is fatal if overdosed.
Harry K
Dick Adams
>oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects
>(capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do
>I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe?
And you would trust the EPA with their history of fraudulent
research?
hal...@aol.com
> As I said. �It was a political movement run by the ecofreaks and
> mommies who thought their little darlings were in danger on the
> playground. �That battle raged for years before the EPA caved in even
> though noone ever came up with a case were it caused a problem.
>
note thats what said about so much, global warming hazardous products,
heck even smoking, and most recently secondhand smoke..........
I seriously doubt RR ties still use creosote, and the new power pole
just installed doesnt have the tell tail creosote appearance either
Harry K
NO, nothing is treated with creosote any more.
Harry K
aussiblu
my State of WA). See
http://www.auspine.com.au/ProductsExpanded.asp?menu=4&Expanded=33&Parent=295
http://www.safersolutions.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=133
http://www.tpaa.com.au/creosote.htm
http://www.worksafemedics.com.au/PDFsManuals/Chemical%20Fact%20Sheets/Creosote.pdf
Harry K
> Creosote is still legal and widely available in Australia (and
>
> --
> Regards
> Blue
>
> Remove ZX from email address to reply directly.
Thanks. I checked your cites and found the discussions interesting in
that they support my position that the 'danger' of it is marginal at
best.
I could not find anything in any of the four cites that discuss the
legality of use. Could you point it out? I am hoping you are right
but the "in the state of WA" doesn't sound right as the ban was a
federal, not state law and thus WA should be included.
I didn't dig into any of the 'side' links on those pages so it may
have been in their someplace.
Harry K
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
I suggest you check the references that 'aussiblu' posted. Much more
valid than the opinions of the people who pushed for the ban.
Harry K
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> The EPA Restricted Use Pesticides listing lists creosote as having
> oncogenic effects (capable of producing tumors) and mutagenic effects
> (capable of mutating DNA & causing cancer). A political movement? Do
> I take your word it's safe or the EPA's word that it isn't safe?
Nobody said creosote was safe. If you eat it you'll get sick. If you
roll around in it day in and day out for years and years without
protective clothing, you'll probably get cancer, or at least some
pretty nasty skin problems.
Everything isn't black and white. There are shades of gray, and this
one is a pretty light shade of gray.
The amount of creosote leaching from railroad ties used as landscape
timbers in your yard is tiny. The amount of contact you have with
these railroad ties is tiny. Unless you have an obsessive compulsive
need to roll around naked on bleeding railroad ties, or chew on them
like a beaver, you will not experience any adverse effects from the
simple presence of creosote.
You get more direct exposure to creosote from bonfires, your
fireplace, or your wood stove, but none of those are subject to the
same PANIC ALERT that these creosote-coated railroad ties are
receiving.
Harry K
For sure. the cites 'aussiblui' gave above pretty well lays it out.
If you aren't taking a bath in it or 'huffing' it - no problem.
Of course facts have never stopped the ecofreaks and the like from
raising a dust storm in the middle of a flood.
Harry K
aussiblu
aussiblu
See http://www.baddevelopers.green.net.au/Docs/toxictimber.htm
"Currently in Australia that are about 130 CCA plants, 35 boron
plants and baths, 11 light organic solvent preservative (LOSP)
plants, 4 creosote plants, ...."
but it also notes:
"Since the introduction of bans on the use of creosote and
pentachlorophenol, chromated copper arsenate (CCA) has emerged
as the most popular form of wood treatment. "
A check through the Australian legislation database at
http://www.austlii.edu.au does indicate it is scheduled poison
and a Class B Activity under Section 42 of the Commonwealth
(Federal) Environmental Protection Act but all this means is
that areas covered by Commonwealth rather than state
jurisdiction:
' person shall not conduct an activity listed in Schedule 1 as a
Class B activity unless the person-
(a) is a party to an environmental protection
agreement that is in effect in respect of that activity; or
(b) holds an environmental authorisation in respect
of that activity. "
There is also a lot of various Australian State legislation
preventing its use in the marine environment and prescribing
occupational health and safety requirements for its use. My
conclusion is while its list and sales is restricted its use is
not yet banned.
NB In Australia the constitution restricts the legislative
powers of the Commonwealth to things like:
trade and commerce with other countries, and among the States [s
51(i)];
taxation [s 51(ii)];
defence [s 51(vi)];
corporations [s 51(xx)];
immigration [s 51(xxvii)]; and
external affairs [s 51(xxix)].
Of course having power over tax legislation gives it a very
powerful lever over the states.
aussiblu
of creosote here
http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/Ento/termites.htm (the
Agriculture Department of WA) so I doubt it is banned.
"Creosote can be an effective timber preservative, preventing
termite attack and wood rot. Protection depends upon the depth
of penetration. Simply brushing creosote on wood surfaces gives
little protection. Multiple applications by brush are better,
but preferably soak the timber in creosote for at least 48
hours. All cutting and hole boring should be completed before
soaking. Round fence posts of seasoned softwood timber, with
sapwood present and the bark removed, can be successfully
treated in a similar manner. "
aussiblu
"The oil-borne preservative high temperature creosote, (HTC) is
recommended for treating posts on the farm. A 205 L drum of HTC
(ex Perth) costs about $240 if a pallet of four drums is bought.
Costs can be reduced by including mineral oil or distillate, for
example a 60:40 mixture of creosote and furnace oil. Some
commercial creosote treaters are: Norman Bario, Mt Barker;
Dryandra Timber Products, Cuballing; and C.C. and J. Russell,
Narrogin. "
http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/content/LWE/VEGT/TREES/TREENOTE8.HTM
Harry K
Hmmm...I was hoping to find a date on that with no luck. I did find
dates at the end in the list of cites for other documents with the
latest one of 1993 - that would be near the time the ban was enacted
but I think it was prior.
That report is also another one from Australia - looks like the WA.GOV
agency just stole it in it's entirety.
Harry K
Harry K
And once again I was bitten by the 'parochrial bug'. I got bit by
that not very many days ago also.
Harry K
Harry K
And I see I did it again in my other reply.
Harry K
aussiblu
store.
Red
> but it also notes:
>
> "Since the introduction of bans on the use of creosote and
> pentachlorophenol, chromated copper arsenate (CCA) has emerged
> as the most popular form of wood treatment. "
>
>
> Class B activity unless the person-
> (a) is a party to an environmental protection
> agreement that is in effect in respect of that activity; or
> (b) holds an environmental authorisation in respect
> of that activity. "
>
That is the same as in the USA. It is not banned, but it is listed as
a "restricted use" chemical, meaning that it is not available to the
general public but is available to licensed persons who are trained in
handling hazardous chemicals.
Red
B...@halpernusa.com
Do you suggest that I cover it with a light coat of concrete to seal it. there are bricks on either of the long sides. My handyman suggested that he could use outdoor paint on the concrete to look just like the bricks and cement on the walkway. do you think that will work?
hub...@ccanoemail.ca
>
>I have had these Railroad ties that leach Creosole for 38 years.
> I want to sell the house and the leaching log is close to my front door
>and the buyers will notice it as they walk on the walk way.
>Also, they will track the creosole into my house & get it on the wood floor & carpets.
>Do you suggest that I cover it with a light coat of concrete to seal it.
> there are bricks on either of the long sides.
>My handyman suggested that he could use outdoor paint on the concrete to
> look just like the bricks and cement on the walkway. do you think that will work?
the brighter the better. sympatico rail ties <> neck ties
https://www.aliexpress.com/cheap/cheap-tie-g.html
... I'm a genious ! :-)
John T.
nuncha
wow you are a special kind of stupid arentcha harry this stuff is deadly when
you are dying of cancer think about your asinine comments
--
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