220V Air Conditioner - Proper Wire Gauge
Will Godfrey
I have a dedicated outlet for a 220V window air conditioner that is
connected to the main panel with 12-gauge wire and a 20-amp fuse. The
label on the air conditioner says "Cooling Amps 15.0/16/5," which would
lead me to believe that the wire is sufficient for the load. But, the
label also says "use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp." If a
30-amp fuse is required, does this mean that I need to replace the wire
with 10-gauge?
Here's the entire label from the unit:
Frigidare Gallery air conditoner
Model # FAS295J2A4
Serial # JK22068612
Volts 230/208
Cooling Amps 15.0/16.5
Cooling Watts 3365 3300
Cooling EER DOE 8.5/8.5
BTU 28,500
use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp
Thanks for your help!
Will
Doug Miller
>Hello,
>
>I have a dedicated outlet for a 220V window air conditioner that is
>connected to the main panel with 12-gauge wire and a 20-amp fuse. The
>label on the air conditioner says "Cooling Amps 15.0/16/5," which would
>lead me to believe that the wire is sufficient for the load. But, the
>label also says "use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp." If a
>30-amp fuse is required, does this mean that I need to replace the wire
>with 10-gauge?
Yes. However, given the data shown below, it should be just fine with 12-ga
wire and 20-amp fuses.
>
>Here's the entire label from the unit:
>Frigidare Gallery air conditoner
>Model # FAS295J2A4
>Serial # JK22068612
>Volts 230/208
>Cooling Amps 15.0/16.5
>Cooling Watts 3365 3300
>Cooling EER DOE 8.5/8.5
>BTU 28,500
>use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Join the UseNet Improvement Project: killfile Google Groups.
http://www.improve-usenet.org
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Download Nfilter at http://www.milmac.com/np-120.exe
Boden
#12 copper wire is appropriate for 20 amps. It's a good idea to keep
continuous loads to 80% of this maximum value so your 16 amp load is ok.
The suggestion that a time delay fuse be used indicates that there is
a short duration motor starting current that may exceed 20 amps.
Consequently a fuse, or circuit breaker that has a delay characteristic
so that it doesn't blow or trip immediately when its current limit is
exceeded is what you may need. Most Square-D QO series breakers
(commonly used in good residential installations and available at Home
Depot) are marked HACR (heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration)
and have a delay, or inverse time characteristic.
Boden
Edwin Pawlowski
"Will Godfrey" <boots...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:2008042921532416807-boots4bears@charternet...
> Hello,
>
> I have a dedicated outlet for a 220V window air conditioner that is
> connected to the main panel with 12-gauge wire and a 20-amp fuse. The
> label on the air conditioner says "Cooling Amps 15.0/16/5," which would
> lead me to believe that the wire is sufficient for the load. But, the
> label also says "use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp." If a
> 30-amp fuse is required, does this mean that I need to replace the wire
> with 10-gauge?
>
> Here's the entire label from the unit:
> Frigidare Gallery air conditoner
If you use a 30A breaker, no. 10 wire is required. At 15 A you are on the
upper limit of #12. It may be OK, but it may also trip the breaker on
startup. If you get voltage drops it will be even worse. I'd be inclined
to change it and be on the safe side.
John Grabowski
"Will Godfrey" <boots...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:2008042921532416807-boots4bears@charternet...
What kind of plug is on the cord? Is it a 30 amp plug or a 20 amp plug?
Check here for compatibility:
http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm
S. Barker
Yes=leave it alone
NO=put in a bigger wire
simple
s
"Will Godfrey" <boots...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:2008042921532416807-boots4bears@charternet...
bud--
Checking the plug is a good idea. If the manufacturer wants a 30A
breaker there should be a 30A plug and the circuit should be #10 with
30A breaker.
All residential circuit breakers are time delay. I never figured out how
HACR breakers differ from 'normal' breakers.
As others have said, the 230V rating is 15A and that is actually OK for
#12. If the A/C was hard wired you could use a 30A breaker with #12 wire
- one of the intricacies of the code. But not for a plug-in.
As others have said, on a 20A breaker the A/C should run OK but may trip
the breaker when it starts.
--
bud--
Tony Hwang
Looking at the spec. of the unit, 20Amp breaker with 2-12 wire is proper.
Too big a breaker won't give good protection. When it supposes to trip
it won't.
Will Godfrey
Here's a photo of it: http://www.webster.edu/~godfreyw/files/P1010199.JPG
Comparing it to http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm , it
appears that it will require an outlet, wire, and breaker rated for 30
amps. Does anyone think think plug might be intended for the 20-amp
5-20R or 6-20R outlets shown in the outlet diagrams?
Thanks again!
Will
Boden
current. So long as the wire gauge and breaker capacity are matched
properly the size of the load is immaterial.
Tony Hwang
Really? wire is link between breaker and the load. Current flowing on
the wire is depending on load. You are trying to say breaker only
protects wires, nothing to do with the load? Does not make sense to me!
Edwin Pawlowski
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>> But, the label also says "use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30
> Hi,
> Looking at the spec. of the unit, 20Amp breaker with 2-12 wire is proper.
> Too big a breaker won't give good protection. When it supposes to trip
> it won't.
Frigidaire makes thousands of ACs every day so the fact that they call for a
30A breaker is silly, right?
Tony Hwang
Even my 3.5 ton ODU is working on 20Amp with 2-12 wires.
David Nebenzahl
> Boden wrote:
>
>> The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire from excessive
>> current. So long as the wire gauge and breaker capacity are matched
>> properly the size of the load is immaterial.
>>
> Hmmm,
> Really? wire is link between breaker and the load. Current flowing on
> the wire is depending on load. You are trying to say breaker only
> protects wires, nothing to do with the load? Does not make sense to me!
The point is that the tripping point of the breaker depends on the
maximum capacity of the wires, *not* the load. Think about it and you'll
see why this is so. I suppose you could say that it's more important to
protect the wires, since they're what can cause fires if overloaded.
So if you have a device that normally draws, let's say, 1 amp on a
20-amp circuit, and the device overloads and draws, let's say, 10 amps,
that device is going to burn up without tripping the breaker. No way to
avoid it, unless the device itself is fused.
--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.
- Attributed to Winston Churchill
Edwin Pawlowski
> Even my 3.5 ton ODU is working on 20Amp with 2-12 wires.
Start up load
Tony Hwang
> On 4/30/2008 6:46 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:
>
>> Boden wrote:
>
> >
>
>>> The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire from excessive
>>> current. So long as the wire gauge and breaker capacity are matched
>>> properly the size of the load is immaterial.
>>>
>> Hmmm,
>> Really? wire is link between breaker and the load. Current flowing on
>> the wire is depending on load. You are trying to say breaker only
>> protects wires, nothing to do with the load? Does not make sense to me!
>
>
> The point is that the tripping point of the breaker depends on the
> maximum capacity of the wires, *not* the load. Think about it and you'll
> see why this is so. I suppose you could say that it's more important to
> protect the wires, since they're what can cause fires if overloaded.
>
> So if you have a device that normally draws, let's say, 1 amp on a
> 20-amp circuit, and the device overloads and draws, let's say, 10 amps,
> that device is going to burn up without tripping the breaker. No way to
> avoid it, unless the device itself is fused.
>
>
Who in right mind would configure/install a wire/load like that? All 3
is on a closed loop. They all interact together.
Tony Hwang
Hi,
Of course, not all breakers are created equal. Certain type is used on
certain type of application. A type of breaker can withstand surge of
certain period without tripping.
David Nebenzahl
You would. I would. We all do.
Think about it: you've got a 20-amp circuit in your house connected to a
run of baseboard outlets. You've got various things plugged into that
circuit: let's say one of them is a device that draws half an amp
maximum. Then let's say that device overloads and draws, let's say, 10
amps: enough to blow the device, but not enough to blow the breaker. (Of
course, it's far more likely that an overload will cause a direct short
which *would* trip the breaker, but this scenario is possible.)
If I understand your logic correctly, then yes, we could set things up
so that each load is perfectly matched to its wires. But that would mean
we'd need a separate circuit *and* circuit breaker for each and every
device in the house. The systems we actually have--branch circuits each
serving a number of devices--is a compromise.
Ralph Mowery
Most recepticals in houses are wired with either 15 or 20 amp breakers.
Look at all the devices you have in the house and see how many are plugged
in that only draw a few amps.
As said above , the sizing of the breakers and wire is such that the wires
are protected from getting too hot and causing a fire in the wall. The
devices plugged into the recepticals should be fused to protect them.
John Grabowski
receptacle. The 30 amp plugs are bigger which judging by the prongs of the
plug in your fingers is what you have.
"Will Godfrey" <boots...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:2008043020180575249-boots4bears@charternet...
Will Godfrey
> Will, If you already have a 220 volt, 20 amp circuit it should have a
> 6-20R receptacle. The 30 amp plugs are bigger which judging by the
> prongs of the plug in your fingers is what you have.
Thanks, John. I'm thinking that the plug is the larger, 30-amp 6-30 as
well. I don't have the recepticle installed yet, just the existing
wire and outlet box. Looks l ike I need to upgrade to 10-gauge wire.
With appreciatiion,
Will
bud--
Looking at the spec: "use time delay fuse or circuit breaker 30 amp"
If that is what the nameplate or manufacturer says the code requires a
30A circuit. One can guess that the A/C will trip a 20A breaker when it
starts.
> The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire from excessive
> current. So long as the wire gauge and breaker capacity are matched
> properly the size of the load is immaterial.
But not the way it is done for hard wired motors.
--
bud--
Pedro
Edwin your absolutely right*/_ "be on the safe side"_/*, like any requirements
from point to point must be of the same standard and should not be any of
these maybe's, it's cut and dry, people who made comments that may lead people
to believe that it okay to go below the standards should not even make any
comments at all, we are creatures of habits both good and bad, and if it's
going to save people a little buck then they will buy the cheap stuff, that's
going to lead to a disaster.
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/220v-air-conditioner-proper-wire-gauge-303881-.htm
trader_4
gfre...@aol.com
efficient the new systems are. They generally run significantly below
FLA on the sticker. If it starts getting up there, you probably have a
problem.
MS DETAILS
What does it mean devices need to be fused
MS DETAILS
Unquestionably Confused
> replying to Ralph Mowery, MS DETAILS wrote:
> What does it's mean to be fused?
>
you need to ask that particular question, while resuscitating a 10 year
old thread.
trader_4
> replying to Ralph Mowery, MS DETAILS wrote:
> What does it mean devices need to be fused
>
should have their own fuse. But that isn't the case. Some devices, eg
a TV or air conditioner typically have a fuse or breaker. Others,
eg a table lamp, do not.
Technical Solutions 77
Any and all 30 A breakers need to be wired with 10 ga copper wire in order to
be safe and efficient. 12 ga wire would work but wouldn't safely power the
circuit because it would quickly reach ( Or be dangerously close ) it's
maximum power transfer capacity which heats up the wire and compromise all the
conductive connections and increase the resistance which would cause excessive
power usage and eventuall create fire hazard.