Schumer shutdown is on

[BurfordTJustice]

We hear a bill is to be introduced to not pay
all the fat assed overpaid government employees
for the tie they sit at home.

In the past they always go paid.

[Taxed and Spent]

What is the default, if nothing is done? They get paid for doing
nothing***, or they don't get paid?

*** I mean during the furlough, not when they are normally not doing
nothing.

[trader_4]

If it works like previous shutdowns, the federal employees who did not
work wind up getting their full pay anyway. I wouldn't be surprised
if it actually costs MORE, because there are probably cases where
things have backed up, so when they restart, I would not be surprised
to see some overtime, etc. to catch up.

And here we are, because Trump blew up a bipartisan deal with his
shithole remarks, and as of now, despite all the tweeting, all the
blame game, Trump still can't tell Congress what he wants, what he
will sign. He can't tell America, all he does is hurl insults
and blame. That proposal looked like a reasonable deal to me.
Maybe you'd like to share with us what you think is a realistic
deal on DACA, what could get 60 votes to pass? What was wrong with
the deal presented to Trump?

[BurfordTJustice]

Fed civilian employees that are non Essential
sit at home.

After all returns to normal they still get full pay for the time
they sat at home,, same for congress.


"Taxed and Spent" <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote in message
news:p42c1c$t21$2...@dont-email.me...

[BurfordTJustice]

LOL Country over part your lying ass!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm4E6lzsTfo


"trader_4" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:db212378-c3fa-4c59...@googlegroups.com...

[trader_4]

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 11:03:00 AM UTC-5, BurfordTJustice wrote:


Call it what it really is. The Trump Shithole Shutdown.
That's what caused it. Trump:

Deport all 11 mil illegals, no if's ands or buts. It can be done in a year.

I've always believed in merit, the people who are already here,
who've committed no crimes, we need a merit system.

Those DACA people are criminals, taking jobs, they need to be deported,
the law is the law.

(six hours later) - I'm asking Congress to legalize DACA

A few days later, - I'm extending Obama's DACA order for 6 months,
so Congress can act. And if they don't, then I will reconsider.

I love DACA!

Presented with a bipartisan deal on DACA, Trump shitholed it.



This is one big hot mess! It would be laughable if the consequences
were not so serious. But it's what you get when you elect a shyster
who's totally unfit.

[trader_4]

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

And here's another perversion those lazy slimeballs in the Senate
have pulled. Why is it that they need 60 votes to pass anything?
That's how many votes it takes for cloture, to end a filibuster.
But do they actually filibuster, which would require a senator
to be on the floor, non-stop, yacking away? No. They are so lazy,
that his isn't about an actual filibuster, that would involve
at least some effort, actually being there non-stop, for those
doing it. Instead it's become just the *threat* of a filibuster
is all it takes.

Seth Meyer was funny last night. He said in honor of a year of
GOP rule at the WH and House, let's spend a few minutes recapping
what they've accomplished. The screen roll went by in under a
second:

Tax cut
Govt Shutdown

[Dove Tail]

trader_4 wrote:

> And here's another perversion those lazy slimeballs in the Senate
> have pulled. Why is it that they need 60 votes to pass anything?
> That's how many votes it takes for cloture, to end a filibuster.
> But do they actually filibuster, which would require a senator
> to be on the floor, non-stop, yacking away? No. They are so lazy,
> that his isn't about an actual filibuster, that would involve
> at least some effort, actually being there non-stop, for those

> doing it. Instead it's become just the threat of a filibuster
> is all it takes.



But yet, the Fascist tax bill passed the senate in a 51-48 vote.

Republican Tax Bill Passes Senate in 51-48 Vote


The New York Times http://tinyurl.com/yawbkpod




--
Truth Sounds Like Hate To Those Who Hate The Truth

[Taxed and Spent]

If you don't know the answer to my question, just say so.

[Taxed and Spent]

On 1/21/2018 7:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Do we even KNOW what the deal that was presented to Trump was?

[gfre...@aol.com]

The difference is schumer didn't filibuster the tax bill. He is
filibustering this one and was proud of admitting it was him doing it.
That is why it is ther schumer shutdown.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 07:52:51 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>If it works like previous shutdowns, the federal employees who did not
>work wind up getting their full pay anyway.

BTW this points out more bullshit spewed by everyone on TV. They keep
telling us the military is not getting paid. Guess what? They were not
going to get paid until the 13th of February anyway. That is their
next pay day. Hopefully this will all be straightened out by then. The
same sort of thing is true of all of these bureaucrats. Nobody gets
paid tomorrow on the federal schedule. Maybe they should keep showing
up until they actually miss a payday.

[Dove Tail]

Ridiculous, the Fascists can reopen the government simply by
negotiating with the minority party, they have chosen to not do so and
they shutdown the government.

[Dove Tail]

Don't know where you get your information but, you are incorrect.

Active duty and reserve personnel are paid twice each month, the next
end of month pay date is February 1, 2018. The next mid-month pay date
is February 15, 2018.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:09:39 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

That is not what Durbin said today. They insist on DACA now or
nothing. There is no "negotiation" only capitulation.

[gfre...@aol.com]

https://www.navyfederal.org/products-services/checking-savings/active-duty-posting.php

[Dove Tail]

https://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/military-pay-dates.html


https://militarybenefits.info/military-pay-dates/

[Dove Tail]

gfre...@aol.com wrote:

> > Ridiculous, the Fascists can reopen the government simply by
> > negotiating with the minority party, they have chosen to not do so
> > and they shutdown the government.
>
> That is not what Durbin said today. They insist on DACA now or
> nothing. There is no "negotiation" only capitulation.

I did not read or hear anything from Dick Durbin today, do you have a
citation? So far today, a number of your assertions have been
incorrect.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:48:47 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

None of them are tomorrow tho are they? Calm the fuck down

[trader_4]

$1.6 bil for his wall, $1.2 bil for increased border security (exactly what Trump has requested in previous continuing resolutions), legalize DACA with green cards in a few years, they could apply for citizenship a few years after that, no chain migration for DACA, but parents already here would have legal status, renewable every 3 years, end the visa lottery.

[BurfordTJustice]

"trader_4" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:3847610d-eaff-479d...@googlegroups.com...

Schumer Shutdown!

You could have but did not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCwc-5YTBb0

[BurfordTJustice]

"trader_4" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:74e97592-3f6c-47b3...@googlegroups.com...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCwc-5YTBb0

[BurfordTJustice]

Not true.

turbin durbin and gay boi graham submitted
a package agreed to by only those two.

Even the other democrats in the room rejected it.


You are a two bit libtard hack.

"trader_4" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:bb0214bf-99fa-4c89...@googlegroups.com...

[mike]

If we all ran our budgets like the federal government, we'd all
be living on the streets.

Government funding bills are about dollars and cents.
They should be UNRELATED to other legislation. If legislation is
already passed and on the books, there should be a line item in the
budget for it. That's ALL. Pass it or not, but don't go bitching
about who gets deported. That's not part of the budget unless it
has been previously passed and shows up as a budget line item.

Was anybody in our government surprised about the due date for
passage of the bill? This childish behavior needs to stop.

If the government is gonna shutdown on Jan 20, the deadline
for passing the funding bill should be much earlier, like
September 1, of the previous year. If the budget isn't passed
by September 1, at least two things happen...

Each member of congress and the president get fined 1/365
of their total compensation, including perks for each and every
day that they're not doing their job. This is not a delay, it's
a FINE and is not tax deductible. Maybe it oughta be a crime,
similar to taking a hostage, with mandatory jail time to commence
at the end of your term of office.

A new line item gets added to the federal tax return.
You get to subtract D/365 of your total tax due (where D is the number
of days
past September 1 that the funding bill was not passed) if you were
not a member of the teams who didn't pass the funding bill.
If our government isn't doing its job, it doesn't need the money.

After 10 days of this childish behavior, maybe we have elections
to replace elected officials who are incapable of reading a calendar
with a big red circle around January 20.

[trader_4]

Yes, because giving back money is a lot easier to get 9 Democrats to vote
for. But it's still an example that the Democrats are not totally
obstructionist. They also gave Trump his SC nominee.

To start deporting these DACA people is so despicable, so anti-AMerican,
that I agree with the Democrats, they need to use the only leverage
they have.

And you know what goes unchallenged here by Trump? What Mr. big balls,
big mouth accepts? He's supposed to be a great businessman who will
bring new ideas, apply business principles to govt. Why is it that
he accepts that Congress, with 535 members, can only do one thing at
a time? What business would accept that? The GOP Congress spent
the first 6 months trying to kill Obamacare. Then they did nothing
for months, finally passed a tax cut. They take long vacations.
Why is it that they could not be doing DACA, immigration, healthcare,
infrastructure, etc at the same time? Every business is capable of
doing many big things at a time. Why isn't Trump challenging that?
It's incredible that a great country that won WWII and put a man on
the moon in less than decade, has been reduced to this.

[Taxed and Spent]

FALSE. Lots of other gimmes added by Scheemer, and his "deal" was agree
to DACA now, pass the spending bill, and then we will talk about the rest.

Sort of like Feinstein asking the President "how about we agree to DACA
now, with a commitment to work on the other things."

Sort of like Wimpy asking for a hamburger today, for which he will
gladly pay you on Tuesday.

[trader_4]

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 3:15:17 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
> On 1/21/2018 7:36 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> > On 1/20/2018 4:50 AM, BurfordTJustice wrote:
> >> We hear a bill is to be introduced to not pay
> >> all the fat assed overpaid government employees
> >> for the tie they sit at home.
> >>
> >> In the past they always go paid.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > What is the default, if nothing is done? They get paid for doing
> > nothing***, or they don't get paid?
> >
> > *** I mean during the furlough, not when they are normally not doing
> > nothing.
> If we all ran our budgets like the federal government, we'd all
> be living on the streets.
>
> Government funding bills are about dollars and cents.
> They should be UNRELATED to other legislation.

You mean like Trump's wall? Obviously he was full of baloney when
he said Mexico was going to pay for it. So, it has to be paid for in
the budget if it's going to be built. So the Democrats gave Trump
what he had asked for $1.6 bil for the wall, $1.2 bil in addtional
border security. They presented that as part of a proposal at the
shithole meeting. So, now what? Is the money for the wall and
border security going in the budget or not?

Aside from that, this is a very American issue at it's core.
Trump is already screwing those DACA people, using then as pawns.
TRUMP is the one that lit the fuse last Sept, created the crisis.
So now with then about to be deported in just over a month,
Trump blew up the bipartisan compromise that would have fixed it.
Normally, I'd agree that the budget should not be used to force
an issue, but when the lives and welfare of 800K families in America
are about to go down the drain, I'd sure use the budget as the
final means.

If legislation is
> already passed and on the books, there should be a line item in the
> budget for it.

A line item for what exactly?

That's ALL. Pass it or not, but don't go bitching
> about who gets deported. That's not part of the budget unless it
> has been previously passed and shows up as a budget line item.

The money Trump wanted for a wall and increased border security,
which Democrats agreed to, would be in the budget and conditional
on DACA.

>
> Was anybody in our government surprised about the due date for
> passage of the bill? This childish behavior needs to stop.

I agree. Who started the childish behavior, who lit the fuse? TRUMP

Who the day the fuse was lit had his AG vilifying the DACA people as
criminals, taking jobs from Americans? TRUMP

Who just six hours later said that Congress should legalize those
people? TRUMP

Who then gave them a 6 month extension and said that if Congress did not
act in that time, then he would reconsider TRUMP

Who while doing the above says he loves DACA? TRUMP

Who runs Congress and sets the schedule, the priorities, determines
what gets discussed and voted on? The GOP

Who accepted that Congress with 535 members can only do one thing at
a time and never complains about it? TRUMP

>
> If the government is gonna shutdown on Jan 20, the deadline
> for passing the funding bill should be much earlier, like
> September 1, of the previous year. If the budget isn't passed
> by September 1, at least two things happen...
>
> Each member of congress and the president get fined 1/365
> of their total compensation, including perks for each and every
> day that they're not doing their job. This is not a delay, it's
> a FINE and is not tax deductible. Maybe it oughta be a crime,
> similar to taking a hostage, with mandatory jail time to commence
> at the end of your term of office.

Sounds like something like that would be a good idea.

>
> A new line item gets added to the federal tax return.
> You get to subtract D/365 of your total tax due (where D is the number
> of days
> past September 1 that the funding bill was not passed) if you were
> not a member of the teams who didn't pass the funding bill.
> If our government isn't doing its job, it doesn't need the money.

That makes no sense, because the govt needs the money either way.

>
> After 10 days of this childish behavior, maybe we have elections
> to replace elected officials who are incapable of reading a calendar
> with a big red circle around January 20.

It's not the Jan 20 date that's the core problem. It's that Trump put
those DACA people's lives into play, he set the countdown to March and then
when presented with a reasonable bipartisan compromise last week,
he made the shithole remarks and blew it all up. And since the GOP
and Democrats agree on one thing, that is that Trump can't or won't
tell them what is that he wants, what he will sign.

[Dove Tail]

trader_4 wrote:

> On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 12:03:55 PM UTC-5, Dove Tail wrote:
> > trader_4 wrote:
> >
> > > And here's another perversion those lazy slimeballs in the Senate
> > > have pulled. Why is it that they need 60 votes to pass anything?
> > > That's how many votes it takes for cloture, to end a filibuster.
> > > But do they actually filibuster, which would require a senator
> > > to be on the floor, non-stop, yacking away? No. They are so
> > > lazy, that his isn't about an actual filibuster, that would
> > > involve at least some effort, actually being there non-stop, for
> > > those doing it. Instead it's become just the threat of a
> > > filibuster is all it takes.
> >
> >
> >
> > But yet, the Fascist tax bill passed the senate in a 51-48 vote.
> >
> > Republican Tax Bill Passes Senate in 51-48 Vote
> >
> >
> > The New York Times http://tinyurl.com/yawbkpod
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes, because giving back money is a lot easier to get 9 Democrats to
> vote for. But it's still an example that the Democrats are not
> totally obstructionist.

From the article: "The Senate voted 51 to 48, with no Republican
defections and no Democratic support."


So, I am confused by your comment, What "9 democrats" are you
referring to?

[trader_4]

I see, so now the guy who just asked what was in the DACA proposal
presented to Trump, now returns and claims to know what was in it.
ROFL
Let me guess, you visited some right wingnut website for revisionist
history and spin. I followed the news as it happened. Let's review.
Trump had a big bipartisan meeting with Congress at the WH with the
cameras rolling. Go look at it. He said that you're all great people,
I know you'll come up with a great deal and I'll sign it. Pelosi
asked him if he's sign a clean DACA bill and Trump said YES! So,
they went and worked for two days straight, came up with a bipartisn
deal, as I outlined in my previous post. They came back to the WH
just two days after that previous meeting to present it. It was
not presented by Schumer, but by Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin.
Trump who's supposed to be not only a genius, but a great negotiator,
turned it into the shithole meeting. Had Trump agreed to it, then
the Democrats would have agreed to a two week extension on the budget
so that DACA could be passed first. The only reason the budget has
come into play is that Trump is about to screw the 800K DACA families
that he says he "loves" so much and the Democrats only have this as their
last option.

Polls show 62% of Americans are on the side of the DACA people.
Only 19% want them deported. Trump sure knows how to pick the
right side of issues, eh? If Trump wants to pass the budget,
if it's so important to him, then he can grant a one year extension
to DACA and forgo the money he asked for his wall. That would
probably be acceptable to the Democrats.

The problem here is simple. Trump has been all over the map on this,
he doesn't know what he wants. And if you disagree, provide us the
links to what big mouth, big balls Trump wants in this DACA deal.
Where is it? He can tweet insults, why can't he put up the list
of what it is that he wants, what he will sign? Both the GOP and
the Democrats agree he either can't or won't tell them what he wants.
Then people wonder why they say he behaves like a child. So, point
us to his DACA deal requirements.......

>
> Sort of like Feinstein asking the President "how about we agree to DACA
> now, with a commitment to work on the other things."
>
> Sort of like Wimpy asking for a hamburger today, for which he will
> gladly pay you on Tuesday.

Sort of like you don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

[Wade Garrett]

On 1/21/18 10:36 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 1/20/2018 4:50 AM, BurfordTJustice wrote:
>> We hear a bill is to be introduced to not pay
>> all the fat assed overpaid government employees
>> for the tie they sit at home.
>>
>> In the past they always go paid.
>>
>>
>
>
> What is the default, if nothing is done?  They get paid for doing
> nothing***, or they don't get paid?
>
> *** I mean during the furlough, not when they are normally not doing
> nothing.

Never mind that. Since we pay income tax to receive government services,
it the feds ain't providing none, we shouldn't have to pay tax for those
days that they're shut down.

Kinda like the cable company crediting your account if your service is
down for a few days

--
If people, who cross our border illegally are not Illegal— then what are
they?
- @chuckwoolery

[trader_4]

> referring to? If there were not 9 Democrats that would side with
the GOP on the tax bill, the Democrats could have blocked it with
a filibuster. I guess the alternative is that the Democrats
>

I was assuming the tax cut was subject to a filibuster and the GOP
would need 60 votes, as they do on most bills, to pass it. That's
what's holding up most legislation, if the opposing party threatens
a filibuster, then the Senate won't proceed without at least 9
Democrats needed for cloture. But you're right, the tax cut was
passed with the budget reconciliation process, that few even
understand, so it was not subject to needing 60 votes. And if you
need those 9 votes, they don't typically need to get identified,
it's just the Democrat leadership knows that they would vote for
cloture if it came to it. So, I was talking about 9 votes in
their pocket in the general case. But you're right, for the tax
they just needed a majority. Which raises the interesting point,
why can't they use the budget reconciliation process now to pass
the budget? Seems if you can pass a tax cut, you could do the
same with the actual budget, it is a budget reconciliaiton process?

[Dove Tail]

trader_4 wrote:

> But you're right, for the tax
> they just needed a majority. Which raises the interesting point,
> why can't they use the budget reconciliation process now to pass
> the budget? Seems if you can pass a tax cut, you could do the
> same with the actual budget, it is a budget reconciliaiton process?

Thanks for clearing that up. As for the BR process, I don't know
enough about it.

I believe the 60 vote requirement is a very good thing. It requires
the majority to show respect for the minority, regardless of which
party is in the majority.

The 2018 midterms are going to be a bloodbath for the alt-right, I just
hope the left can find someone other than Pelosi to lead the house. At
this point, I think Schumer will do a good job leading the Senate.

[trader_4]

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 7:43:54 PM UTC-5, Dove Tail wrote:
> trader_4 wrote:
>
> > But you're right, for the tax
> > they just needed a majority. Which raises the interesting point,
> > why can't they use the budget reconciliation process now to pass
> > the budget? Seems if you can pass a tax cut, you could do the
> > same with the actual budget, it is a budget reconciliaiton process?
>
>
> Thanks for clearing that up. As for the BR process, I don't know
> enough about it.
>
> I believe the 60 vote requirement is a very good thing. It requires
> the majority to show respect for the minority, regardless of which
> party is in the majority.
>

I probably agree. It does prevent a lot of things from getting done,
it's been a major roadblock. But both parties have used it and neither seems
interested in getting rid of it.

> The 2018 midterms are going to be a bloodbath for the alt-right, I just
> hope the left can find someone other than Pelosi to lead the house. At
> this point, I think Schumer will do a good job leading the Senate.
>

We'll see what happens. Historically the WH party loses seats and with
the s***show you'd think it would be much worse than typical. Chuck
Todd on Meet the Depressed had the stats on Lations. 64% say the
Democrats should control Congress in November, 19% say the GOP.
There are ~55 House seats in districts where Latinos are 18%+ of the
voters. I think about 20 were in districts that are 30%+ Latino.
Ten of those GOP congressmen are not running for re-election.
Doesn't sound good for the GOP and Trump could be sowing the seeds
for his own impeachment.

Chuck Todd also had on the former head of the American Conservative Union.
His analysis was pretty much where mine has been. That the deal Trump
shitholed, wasn't a bad one, that Trump should have said yes, then sold
it to his base as another great accomplishment. He would have had the tax cut,
now DACA with funding for his wall, etc. He said it was terrible politics.
62% of Americans want DACA fixed with them staying, only 19% want deportation.
He lamented about where the compassion has gone in the GOP. And he
pointed out that in 2006 the hard right torpedoed Bush's immigration
reform. At that time, there were 5 mil illegal aliens, now there are
11 mil. So, who won on that? And here they are, back making the same
mistake again.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:53:20 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"
<do...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> > Ridiculous, the Fascists can reopen the government simply by
>> > negotiating with the minority party, they have chosen to not do so
>> > and they shutdown the government.
>>
>> That is not what Durbin said today. They insist on DACA now or
>> nothing. There is no "negotiation" only capitulation.
>
>
>I did not read or hear anything from Dick Durbin today, do you have a
>citation? So far today, a number of your assertions have been
>incorrect.

Track down the face the nation show from Sunday. Durban is using lots
of "it's trump's fault" language but the thrust of all of it is we are
not going to fund the government without a DACA deal. DACA has
absolutely nothing to do with the appropriations to fund the
government beyond it's extortion value.
Maybe the GOP should just let them have something on DACA but hang a
bunch of other unrelated crap on the bill.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:


>> Do we even KNOW what the deal that was presented to Trump was?
>
>$1.6 bil for his wall, $1.2 bil for increased border security (exactly what Trump has requested in previous continuing resolutions), legalize DACA with green cards in a few years, they could apply for citizenship a few years after that, no chain migration for DACA, but parents already here would have legal status, renewable every 3 years, end the visa lottery.

Do you think that would get through the house?

[Dove Tail]

It would be helpful if you could provide an exact quote with a citation
to a transcript or a specific point in a video. I just don't have the
time to do the kind of research required to substantiate your
interpretation of Durbin's words.

Additionally, Durbin is not the senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer
functions in that capacity.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 13:31:08 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

It wasn't one sentence, it was the interview taken as a whole.
Politicians are very good at not leaving sound bites but every
question led back to the fact that they were not going to let this
appropriations bill proceed without DACA, Maybe that is too complex
for your Rachel Maddow addled brain.

Here it is but I am tired of doing your homework
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-sen-dick-durbin-on-face-the-nation-jan-21-2018/

[trader_4]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 12:22:53 AM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:53:20 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"
> <do...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> > Ridiculous, the Fascists can reopen the government simply by
> >> > negotiating with the minority party, they have chosen to not do so
> >> > and they shutdown the government.
> >>
> >> That is not what Durbin said today. They insist on DACA now or
> >> nothing. There is no "negotiation" only capitulation.
> >
> >
> >I did not read or hear anything from Dick Durbin today, do you have a
> >citation? So far today, a number of your assertions have been
> >incorrect.
>
> Track down the face the nation show from Sunday. Durban is using lots
> of "it's trump's fault" language but the thrust of all of it is we are
> not going to fund the government without a DACA deal.

I don't see anyone here disagreeing with that. That is the Democrats
position. It's the only leverage they have with DACA deportation set for
a month from now.

DACA has
> absolutely nothing to do with the appropriations to fund the
> government beyond it's extortion value.

As stated many times now, the proposal that Trump shitholed included
$1.6 bil for his wall, $1.2 bil for increased border security. Trump
wanted that. It would be in the budget, so now what? Trump and the
GOP don't want it anymore?

And this technique was used by the GOP to try to kill Obamacare, get rif
of EPA regulations, etc. Both of which had nothing, or as little to do
with the budget as the above. Actually, it was worse, because OBamacare
for example had already been brought to the floor, argued before the whole
country and voted on. The GOP had lost. So far DACA, nothing has been
done.

> Maybe the GOP should just let them have something on DACA but hang a
> bunch of other unrelated crap on the bill.

The proposal already did that, per the above. It's the GOP that apparently
is trying to hang the unrelated stuff on, eg Tom Cotton wants an end to
all chain migration, not just eliminating it for DACA. Trump wants his
wall and increased border security funding, which was in the proposal.

[trader_4]

Yes, that's why that bipartisan group took the proposal to Trump. They
figured out a compromise that they believed would pass.

[gfre...@aol.com]

We agree that both sides have used this shutdown extortion but that
does not make it right and it is also a fairly new thing. It started
with the Reagan administration but was actually a democrat sponsored
bill.
If DACA is such a popular thing, deal with it in a clean immigration
bill.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 09:17:51 -0800 (PST), trader_4

<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 12:24:05 AM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> Do we even KNOW what the deal that was presented to Trump was?
>> >
>> >$1.6 bil for his wall, $1.2 bil for increased border security (exactly what Trump has requested in previous continuing resolutions), legalize DACA with green cards in a few years, they could apply for citizenship a few years after that, no chain migration for DACA, but parents already here would have legal status, renewable every 3 years, end the visa lottery.
>>
>> Do you think that would get through the house?
>
>Yes, that's why that bipartisan group took the proposal to Trump. They
>figured out a compromise that they believed would pass.

Why bother Trump then? Pass it and dare him to veto. That is the only
way this would be a Trump shutdown. Until the bill is enrolled just
ignore him.

[Dove Tail]

gfre...@aol.com wrote:

> > Additionally, Durbin is not the senate minority leader, Chuck
> > Schumer functions in that capacity.
>
> It wasn't one sentence, it was the interview taken as a whole.
> Politicians are very good at not leaving sound bites but every
> question led back to the fact that they were not going to let this
> appropriations bill proceed without DACA, Maybe that is too complex
> for your Rachel Maddow addled brain.

Oh my God, the Rachel Maddow insult, I am crushed. Please, have mercy
on me! :-)

>
> Here it is but I am tired of doing your homework
>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-sen-dick-durbin-on-face-the-nation-jan-21-2018/

Apparently, you have never been in a formal debate or authored any kind
of a research paper. It is not the obligation of the reader to find
confirmation of the facts you assert. It is your obligation to back up
your claims when requested to do so.

After reading the transcript you provided, I see NOTHING to
substantiate your interpretations and or claims of impropriety.

[Terry Coombs]

  Then you have a serious reading comprehension problem .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

[Dove Tail]

Terry Coombs wrote:

> Then you have a serious reading comprehension problem .

Terry, why don't you cite specific quotes from the transcript which you
"feel" are inappropriate? You might get lucky! :-)

[Terry Coombs]

On 1/22/2018 1:05 PM, Dove Tail wrote:
> Terry Coombs wrote:
>
>> Then you have a serious reading comprehension problem .
>
> Terry, why don't you cite specific quotes from the transcript which you
> "feel" are inappropriate? You might get lucky! :-)
>
>
>

Every single question gets looped back to a reference to DACA and how
nothing is happening unless the libs get to keep their illegal voter
base . Not too hard to figure out - if one has an IQ above room
temperature . You have a nasty habit of twisting things to fit your spin
and your spin is always anti-Trump . He won , he's the president now ,
and all the lib-lies and chicanery isn't going to change that . Y'all
lost your chance to turn the USA into a 3rd world shithole .

[trader_4]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
> On 1/22/2018 1:05 PM, Dove Tail wrote:
> > Terry Coombs wrote:
> >
> >> Then you have a serious reading comprehension problem .
> >
> > Terry, why don't you cite specific quotes from the transcript which you
> > "feel" are inappropriate? You might get lucky! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> Every single question gets looped back to a reference to DACA and how
> nothing is happening unless the libs get to keep their illegal voter
> base . Not too hard to figure out - if one has an IQ above room
> temperature . You have a nasty habit of twisting things to fit your spin
> and your spin is always anti-Trump .

So, I suppose you were outraged when the GOP shutdown the govt in the
past over the EPA and trying to kill Obamacare? I'd say the lives of
800K families here is way more important that those issues. And those
issues were fully vetted, brought up for a vote. In the case of Obamacare,
it passed, yet the GOP wanted to go back to the issue to kill it via
the budget. In the case of DACA, nothing has even been brought up for
a vote, with those 800K facing deporattion in a month. I'd say that if
you're going to shut the govt down, that's a damn good reason. Trump lit
the fuse on this, there was no crisis.

He won , he's the president now ,
> and all the lib-lies and chicanery isn't going to change that . Y'all
> lost your chance to turn the USA into a 3rd world shithole .
>
> --
> Snag
> Ain't no dollar sign on
> peace of mind - Zac Brown

Watch what happens with the backlash to Trump and the GOP. We'll see.
The hard right said screw moderation, screw compromise, we want a bomb
throwing, insult throwing maniac for president. We'll see what the net
result will be. I'm figuring it's likely conservatives will be banished
to the wilderness for generations, possibly forever. So, whatever it is
Trump wants to get done, he better hurry up, the election is 9 months
away.

[trader_4]

Sure, where the Democrats have no leverage. It won't happen and it's
TRUMP that created the crisis, threw those DACA under the bus and set
the deadline of MArch. I'm perfectly fine with a shutdown to protect
those DACA people. The images that I'm seeing, the things that the GOP
supports looks more like Nazi Germany, than America. The storm troopers
arriving, taking the father who came here as a 5 year old, who'd been
here all his life, who's 40, deporting him, leaving the family to suffer.
That's Trump's Amerika, not mine. Watching that more than justifies a
shutdown, when it's the only way to prevent it that's left.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 12:42:02 -0600, Terry Coombs <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:

He is a Trump hater and that is all he sees no matter where he looks

[gfre...@aol.com]

Who said anything about inappropriate? Durbin just made it clear that
the democrats are going to hold the country hostage until they get
their way on DACA.

[Dove Tail]

LOL

Robert Mueller. Tick, tock.

LOL

[Dove Tail]

I will say this Trader, you have a lot of patience to be able to paper
the walls with pertinent details for the likes of people such as Terry.
Unfortunately, they don't care about details and complete facts.

It is much easier for them to live in their intellectual slums. Facts
are just "chicanery", don't think I have ever used that word in a
sentence before.


LOL!

[Dove Tail]

gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>
> He is a Trump hater and that is all he sees no matter where he looks

Hummm, now you want to talk about your feelings and mine, curious.

I had the impression we were a couple of guys having a heated debate
about facts.

Now I discover you are playing the role of a reality TV housewife.

It's getting to the point where you can't tell the players on Usenet
without a scorecard!

ROFL!

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 12:15:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>So, I suppose you were outraged when the GOP shutdown the govt in the
>past over the EPA and trying to kill Obamacare?

Yes, next?

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:08:23 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"
<do...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> He is a Trump hater and that is all he sees no matter where he looks
>
>
>Hummm, now you want to talk about your feelings and mine, curious.
>
>I had the impression we were a couple of guys having a heated debate
>about facts.
>
>Now I discover you are playing the role of a reality TV housewife.
>
>It's getting to the point where you can't tell the players on Usenet
>without a scorecard!
>
>ROFL!

The democrats seemed to agree with me. This was the schumer shutdown
and they reined him in.

[Dove Tail]

gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>
> The democrats seemed to agree with me. This was the schumer shutdown
> and they reined him in.

"Agreed with you", that is pretty funny.

Wrote it before and I will write it again, with such dramatic leaps,
you should be in the Olympics.

So much for your histrionics about Durbin and Schumer.

The democrats proved they are the adults in the room and most
concerned with the best interests of the nation. Plus, they will have
another bite at the budget apple in February if your fascists try to
sidestep the DACA issue.