[Deep Future] Continental Positions & Consequences
William P. Baird
another newsgroup[1] and see if I can get James, Carlos,
and others to participate. The far future seems to be on
charter here based on The Reclaimation Threads, so here we go.
What's the point of the thread? I'd like to examine alternate
future layouts of the continents. The definitive map that most
people online reference to seems that seems to be here:
http://www.scotese.com/future2.htm
Our own James Nicoll used it in his Beyond the Green Door TL.
There are other future continental maps that people have
generated. Frex, in Dougal Dixon's _After Man_ and the
Discovery Channel's _The Future Is Wild_.
I'd like to try rolling another one.
Some changes to include (or so it seems to me):
1. The Atlantic Ocean is still spreading. It might become
as large as the Pacific given time.
2. Australia marches north. Given time and no shifts in
direction (ha!) Tasmania might end up being equitorial
and a mountain range the size of the Himilayas lying
on the Asian[2] border. Does thus mean that New Zealand
is tropical too?
3. Lemuria. The Rift Valley seems to be spreading still.
We migh end up with the African equivalent of New Zealand.
But much, much larger.
4. Africa marches north still. There is no Med anymore.
Possibly the southern tip of Africa is at the equator. It
depends on what happens to Europe.
5. India marches further north making the whole subcontinent
into Asia and very, very mountainous.
6. If the Pacific Plate is subducting in the east under Japan.
The simplest is that it simply shrinks. It seems to be sliding
norh on the NorAm side. The subduction is underway under Japan.
that means NorAm and SoAm are moving west.
Wacko Maybes:
1. The Gakkel Ridge is located under the Arctic Ocean and is
slowly, very slowly spreading. it's between Siberia and NorAm.
If this continues might we see Asia or Greenland/NorAm move
south?
2. There's a hotspot under the Rhine, iirc, spreading and
splitting Europe like Lemuria is from Africa. Might we see
either a new sea or gulf open up between France and Germany?
France and Spain are then a great pennisula off of Africa
like Europe is now for Asia? Or could we see it way out in
left field in the Grosser Atlantic forming its own
'continent'?
3. SoAm seems to be moving north towards the Caribbean.
Might we see NorAm and SoAm be East and West America?
That doesn't seem likely. More likely is that Central
America gets squished into a very tall mountain range
as NorAm goes SW and SoAm goes NW.
Thoughts?
Will
2. That's one way that Oz might end up in China's orbit!
--
William P Baird Do you know why the road less traveled by
Home: anzhalyu@gmail. has so few sightseers? Normally, there
Work: wba...@nersc.go is something big, mean, with very sharp
Blog: thedragonstales teeth - and quite the appetite! - waiting
+ com/v/.blogspot.com somewhere along its dark and twisty bends.
Jack May
"William P. Baird" <anzh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121724754....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
There are animations out there that make predictions for many different
times in the future.
http://www.scotese.com/newpage13.htm
Are you implying that something like a massive collision changing the Earth
or there is great uncertainty in how the continents will slide around
William P. Baird
> Are you implying that something like a massive collision changing the Earth
> or there is great uncertainty in how the continents will slide around
I am suggesting that there is a great deal of uncertainty
in the future time frames as to the position of the continents.
Continental plates break (we know that and are observing it in
a few places, frex, the Rift Valley in east Africa). Subduction
zones come and go. They move continents as much as hot spots and
spreading do.
Dr Scorese has Antarctica moving off the south pole. Very possible
but not easy to find evidence for right now at all. Antarctica just
isn't moving right now almost any which way.
Right now we have a general model of what's going on down there in
the mantle, but we're not currently modeling it, afaik. There's
really not enough data, as I seem to remember.
So, hence the idea of moving the continents around in a different
fashion than Dr Scorese. After all he does caveat his own with
"what it might look like far into the future".
So what else can we mess with? Whither Arabia and Madagascar?
The former is its own plate and the latter looks like it'd end
up on the new Lemurian Plate.
Will
sigi...@yahoo.com
William P. Baird wrote:
> 2. Australia marches north. Given time and no shifts in
> direction (ha!) Tasmania might end up being equitorial
> and a mountain range the size of the Himilayas lying
> on the Asian[2] border. Does thus mean that New Zealand
> is tropical too?
New Zealand's on another plate, so maybe and maybe not.
> 3. Lemuria. The Rift Valley seems to be spreading still.
> We migh end up with the African equivalent of New Zealand.
> But much, much larger.
East Africa rips off of Africa and goes... somewhere? Sure.
The Asian plate has a little rip in the center (Lake Baikal) but it's
unclear whether it will grow or not.
> 4. Africa marches north still. There is no Med anymore.
The Med has been on-and-off for the last few million years. For much
of the Pliocene and Pleistocene, it was a honkin' huge basin filled
with salt pans. The weather is supposed to have been really weird --
like nothing in the world of today. (Much of it would have been
hundreds of feet below sea level.)
So, the Italian plate gets squished. A new round of Alp formation,
matched by anti-Alps in Libya/Tunisia.
> Possibly the southern tip of Africa is at the equator.
It's a long way -- > 30 degrees.
> 5. India marches further north making the whole subcontinent
> into Asia and very, very mountainous.
There's probably a limit to that. The bigger mountains get, the faster
they erode.
> 6. If the Pacific Plate is subducting in the east under Japan.
> The simplest is that it simply shrinks. It seems to be sliding
> norh on the NorAm side. The subduction is underway under Japan.
> that means NorAm and SoAm are moving west.
It's a lot more complicated than that.
> 1. The Gakkel Ridge is located under the Arctic Ocean and is
> slowly, very slowly spreading. it's between Siberia and NorAm.
> If this continues might we see Asia or Greenland/NorAm move
> south?
Sure. Why not? Greenland has been tropical before.
> 2. There's a hotspot under the Rhine, iirc, spreading and
> splitting Europe like Lemuria is from Africa.
Really? Cite?
Doug M.
William P. Baird
> New Zealand's on another plate, so maybe and maybe not.
That could be interesting. Is there any hint of where the
plates are headed?
> East Africa rips off of Africa and goes... somewhere? Sure.
East? Depends on how far.
> The Asian plate has a little rip in the center (Lake Baikal) but it's
> unclear whether it will grow or not.
Little rips seem to be all over. Most of what I've stumbled across
seem to say that the Asia plate's pretty darned solid and not going
anywhere. Over a hundred million+ years that could change though.
> The Med has been on-and-off for the last few million years. For much
> of the Pliocene and Pleistocene, it was a honkin' huge basin filled
> with salt pans. The weather is supposed to have been really weird --
> like nothing in the world of today. (Much of it would have been
> hundreds of feet below sea level.)
Yup. Must have been an interesting place. I ahve to wonder what sort
of ecology lived down there...if anything. A little hard to go fossil
hunting though.
> So, the Italian plate gets squished. A new round of Alp formation,
> matched by anti-Alps in Libya/Tunisia.
The Med Valley? Two pairs of mountains separated an ever
upthrusting valley floor stretching from the Atlantic to what
was the Syrian coast? Depending on how it ends on the former
Syrian coast - mountains? Or...? - it might be a rather
interesting and isolated place biologically. Alps and Antialps.
Interesting. Wonder what the climate would be like...
Maybe next year's SC conference. I'll ahev to find something to
top waht I am doing this year. Simming a future world's climate
might be fun and challenging live on the floor of the conference.
> It's a long way -- > 30 degrees.
Yeah. I was thinking in the 250 million year range, same as James'
Green Door TL.
> There's probably a limit to that. The bigger mountains get, the faster
> they erode.
That is true. Wonder what the limit is.
Also would India become a Nova Tibet though as a highland plateau?
> It's a lot more complicated than that.
true, but I'm give an ATL solidus for you to expound a little.
> Sure. Why not? Greenland has been tropical before.
But does it force NorAm and Asia a little south? Or a lot south?
> Really? Cite?
There are many examples of Stage 1. East African Rift Valley
is the classic example. But also the Midland Valley of Scotland,
the Rhine Graben, the Oslo Graben. These rifts have never got
beyond stage 1. Commonly the volcanism associated with these
rifts is highly alkaline and undersaturated in silica.
http://www.le.ac.uk/geology/art/gl209/lecture3/lecture3.html
May not be going anywhere then, but its there. This Island Western
Europe might be fun to play with though.
Will
> Doug M.
low key
<mra...@willamette.edu> wrote in message
news:1121910530.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> For some reason, plot or otherwise, Stephen Baxter has repeatedly
> (Evolution and Children of Time) had the continents reform into a
> super-Pangea that causes most of the world to be a desert that
> evetnually becomes as dry as Mars.
I saw a documentary on possible future species [a very good show] that had
experts saying the same thing - that the future of continental drift meant
that the planet would eventually* end up with an Australia-like
super-pangea with a dry desert interior and very wet coasts.
* By 'eventually' they were speaking in terms of tens of millions of years.
--
'We can be quick-witted or very intelligent,
but not both' -stephen hawking
William P. Baird
> <mra...@willamette.edu> wrote in message
> news:1121910530.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > For some reason, plot or otherwise, Stephen Baxter has repeatedly
> > (Evolution and Children of Time) had the continents reform into a
> > super-Pangea that causes most of the world to be a desert that
> > evetnually becomes as dry as Mars.
huh. Mike's message is MIA. If it shows up I'll reply.
> I saw a documentary on possible future species [a very good show] that had
> experts saying the same thing - that the future of continental drift meant
> that the planet would eventually* end up with an Australia-like
> super-pangea with a dry desert interior and very wet coasts.
You're refering, iirc, to _The Future is Wild_ that I referenced
in the beginning of the thread. It's moderately good. There are
some 'huh?' moments like that theys tate that there are no bony
fishes to survive the ubervulcanism that exterminates all the
land dwelling life...yet there are the flishes - fish that have
adapted to flying and have lungs. They are, beat, bony fish
descendants that took advantage of the lack of birds after the
extinction.
> * By 'eventually' they were speaking in terms of tens of millions of years.
*cough* Hundreds *cough*
Will
low key
> low key wrote:
>> <mra...@willamette.edu> wrote in message
>> news:1121910530.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > For some reason, plot or otherwise, Stephen Baxter has repeatedly
>> > (Evolution and Children of Time) had the continents reform into a
>> > super-Pangea that causes most of the world to be a desert that
>> > evetnually becomes as dry as Mars.
>
> huh. Mike's message is MIA. If it shows up I'll reply.
>
>> I saw a documentary on possible future species [a very good show] that
>> had
>> experts saying the same thing - that the future of continental drift
>> meant
>> that the planet would eventually* end up with an Australia-like
>> super-pangea with a dry desert interior and very wet coasts.
>
> You're refering, iirc, to _The Future is Wild_ that I referenced
> in the beginning of the thread.
Yes, that's it. I didn't remember the title and didn't see your original.
>> * By 'eventually' they were speaking in terms of tens of millions of
>> years.
>
> *cough* Hundreds *cough*
What's a zero more or less.
:)
--
'A person who never made a mistake
never tried anything new.' -albert einstein
Errol Cavit
> sigi...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> New Zealand's on another plate, so maybe and maybe not.
>
> That could be interesting. Is there any hint of where the
> plates are headed?
>
Australian North, Pacific East.
NZ up, and shake it all about.
http://www.gns.cri.nz/what/earthact/index.html
--
Errol Cavit | errol...@hotmail.com
If you took the whole of Norway, scrunched it up a bit, shook out all the
moose and reindeer, hurled it 10,000 miles around the world and filled it
with birds then you'd be wasting your time because it looks very much like
someone has already done it.
Douglas Adams, describing Fiordland, _Last Chance to See_
Errol Cavit
news:1121869716.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> William P. Baird wrote:
>
>> 2. Australia marches north. Given time and no shifts in
>> direction (ha!) Tasmania might end up being equitorial
>> and a mountain range the size of the Himilayas lying
>> on the Asian[2] border. Does thus mean that New Zealand
>> is tropical too?
>
> New Zealand's on another plate,
Well, parts of it :-(
http://www.gns.cri.nz/what/earthact/index.html
As they say, only a few parts of NZ are entirely on one plate.
<snip>
William P. Baird
> NZ up, and shake it all about.
And the posthuman zoological evolution in New Zealand is dominated
by sheep and rats.
*shudders*
;)
Will
> Errol Cavit | errol...@hotmail.com
Errol Cavit
> Errol Cavit wrote:
>
>> NZ up, and shake it all about.
>
> And the posthuman zoological evolution in New Zealand is dominated
> by sheep and rats.
>
> *shudders*
>
> ;)
>
Nah, you should she what the local insects are like - huge gothic
grasshoppers!!
--
Errol Cavit | errol...@hotmail.com
I've heard a tape of collected kakapo noises, and it's almost impossible to
believe that it all just comes from a bird, or indeed any kind of animal.
Pink Floyd studio out-takes perhaps, but not a parrot.
Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_
William P. Baird
> Nah, you should she what the local insects are like - huge gothic
> grasshoppers!!
Sheep, bugs, and rats, oh my!
hrm.
If New Zealand is on two plates could we end up with a string of
remnant islands all the way up the plate boundries with little
populations of different critters diverging all over the place?
Hrm.
Will
> Errol Cavit | errol...@hotmail.com
--
William P Baird Do you know why the road less traveled by
Home: anzhalyu@gmail. has so few sightseers? Normally, there
Work: wba...@nersc.go is something big, mean, with very sharp
Blog: thedragonstales teeth - and quite the appetite! - waiting
+ com/v/.blogspot.com somewhere along its dark and twisty bends.
Errol Cavit
> Errol Cavit wrote:
>
>> Nah, you should she what the local insects are like - huge gothic
>> grasshoppers!!
>
> Sheep, bugs, and rats, oh my!
>
There is a very welcome lack of large carnivores, so it s hard to say what
would come out on top. Pigs?
> hrm.
>
> If New Zealand is on two plates could we end up with a string of
> remnant islands all the way up the plate boundries with little
> populations of different critters diverging all over the place?
>
Like Indonesia? Quite possibly.
William P. Baird
> There is a very welcome lack of large carnivores, so it s hard to say what
> would come out on top. Pigs?
Derived Rats and pigs as the carnivores?
Giant pigs as rhino analogs. A herding instinct carnivore might be
interesting if there were enough islands. Giant sheep that turn into
browsers? Then again, you guys do havea lot of cats, right?
> Like Indonesia? Quite possibly.
A more north-south Indonesia might be the case. I have a feeling it'd
not have as large of islands along the way though. Could be wrong.
Summary so far...Some interesting landforms so far:
Great Mediterranean Canyon stretching from Tunisia and Italy to
xAnatolia and Greece. Perhaps as far east as xSyria. A great river
basin there. Agean as the neo-caspian or aral? Black Sea as a
great dry pit like the Med has been in the past?
This Island Gaul out in the uber Atlantic? Pushed west by the
Rhine Graben and south by the Midland Valley of Scotland.
Carribea out in the uber Atlantic with a long serpentine
island "continent"?
Zeanesia stretching from current New Zealand up to Tuvali?
Great America? NorAm and SoAm close the Gulf of Mexico
attaching at the Yucatan and Florida? Gulf of Mexico
becomes a nuevo Med?
The Great Indian Plateau? India as Tibet...
Australonesia as a really great India-Indochina Pennisula
on steroids.
Plus the other ones mentioned and I've forgotten to add
here.
Coyu
> There are many examples of Stage 1. East African Rift Valley
> is the classic example. But also the Midland Valley of Scotland,
> the Rhine Graben, the Oslo Graben. These rifts have never got
> beyond stage 1. Commonly the volcanism associated with these
> rifts is highly alkaline and undersaturated in silica.
>
> http://www.le.ac.uk/geology/art/gl209/lecture3/lecture3.html
The Connecticut (and if memory serves, the Hudson too) river valley
is an example of a failed dead rift which later geological processes
used as a channel for glacial run-off. And I gather that deep deep
under the sediments of the Nile, there's a rift as well.
IMS, the study of initial rift formation is kind of a dead area
itself in geology, but this is based on my reading of one (1)
book, Scholz's <i>Fieldwork</i>.
William P. Baird
> The Connecticut (and if memory serves, the Hudson too) river valley
> is an example of a failed dead rift which later geological processes
> used as a channel for glacial run-off. And I gather that deep deep
> under the sediments of the Nile, there's a rift as well.
I wonder if the fault under the Rio Grande is another one?
> IMS, the study of initial rift formation is kind of a dead area
> itself in geology, but this is based on my reading of one (1)
> book, Scholz's <i>Fieldwork</i>.
hrmph. Sounds like there's a plethora of dissertations waiting
to be done.
Will