Hitting the wrong note while soloing!

[RK]

Though been playing for decades:

Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

[The Repair Guy]

"RK" <flemm...@mail.tele.dk> wrote:

I've had this happen when I learned a solo
by rote without really understanding it. If you
know what's going on you should be able to
substitute notes, change direction, etc.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

[boardjunkie1]

Most players will do this all the time. You just need to know how to
improvise well enough to get back on track quickly. Better players can
actually make the wrong note work for them. IE switching from major to
minor just for a second to make it sound like yer smartin' off instead
of try'n to pull out of a bunk note. It comes with experience....

[Lost in the Wasteland]

BFD ... Let it rip !

[JimT]

On 9/18/2011 1:09 PM, RK wrote:

Two words: "Finger memory"

Only comes with practice and understanding the scale you're working in.

When you do hit a wrong note make a face like you just hit musical
ecstasy and hope no one notices. <g>

[Tony Done]

"RK" wrote in message
news:4e7633cc$0$56769$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

Though been playing for decades:

Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

*****************

As TRG implied, after a while you do your solos as patterns, not by rote, if
you play a bum note if just work it in. Here's a weird thing we (Thommo and
I) decided to post on Sounclick as a novelty piece. I'm playing slide with
an high 6th string, like banjo, and the guitar is out of tune; it is single
tracked. At about 1:38 I have a mental glitch and hit a completely bum
chord. I decide to run with it and work it into the melody, and Thommo finds
a vocal melody to suit:

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=7504393&q=lo&newref=1

Tony D

[rmjon23]

There are two (2) tried-and-true escape plans for this:

1.) As soon as you realize it's a bum note, start bending until it sounds okay.

2.) An old jazz maxim (which I've heard repeated by rock players): if you hit a wrong note, hit it again so they'll think you meant it the first time. If you've got the ability to put on the Face of Ecstasy after you flubbed, so much the better.

Exception to #1 and #2: seasoned players will know you fucked up no matter what. Hey, we all hit a sour note. It's a good chance to learn: what do I hit and WHY did it sound so wrong?

There are also good theoretical reasons why we hit the wrong note and it sounds great. That too bears analysis. We can learn a lot from our mistakes, if we have the theory-tools.

[Tony Done]

"rmjon23" wrote in message
news:8761988.1116.1316378562626.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@preb19...

**************

One bum note is happenstance, two is coincidence, three is jazz. I think
blues, my main genre, originated from bum notes and sliding or bending out
of them.

Tony D

[notbob]

On 2011-09-18, RK <flemm...@mail.tele.dk> wrote:

> Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
> just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

Do like Microsoft and Windows. Call it a feature!

The Kingsmen screwed up one of the greatest, most popular, hits of all
time, Louie Louie. Catch the goofed vocal at 1:55 secs in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vae_AkLb4Q

Did anyone notice or even care? Hell no!!

BTW, notice the 45 label actually gives credit to the originator of the
song, Richard Berry. I'm geezer enough that that's the one I first
heard. The first version I actually cut my barre chord teeth on was
the Beach Boys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGocDWh07c8

....no doubt cuz that's when I had the album and a borrowed electric
guitar played thru my parents component stereo system. ;)

Let's face it, LL was one of the definitive standards that all early
gee-tar players aspired to master. I even had an all LL album,
everyone getting into the act from marching to bluegrass bands. A
real hoot.

Anyway, the point being, who gives a crap if you miss a note?
Definitely not as bad as yer girl missing her period! ;)

nb

[Lord Valve]

RK wrote:

Nope.

Lord Valve
Expert

[Lord Valve]

notbob wrote:

> Let's face it, LL was one of the definitive standards that all early
> gee-tar players aspired to master.

Holy SHIT!

Lord Valve
Organist

[notbob]

On 2011-09-19, Lord Valve <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Holy SHIT!

Couldn't say. Not into blessed fecal matter.

nb

[Lord Valve]

If you play crap like that, you're into fecal matter, holy or unholy.


Lord Valve
Organist

[DeeAa]

"RK" <flemm...@mail.tele.dk> kirjoitti
viestissä:4e7633cc$0$56769$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

> Though been playing for decades:
>
> Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
> just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

Just make sure you play that wrong note again, as if intended, and people
think you're incorporating some jazzy weird stuff, not making a mistake.

[Grinner]

"RK" <flemm...@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:4e7633cc$0$56769$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

> Though been playing for decades:
>
> Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
> just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

I saw Page do this live during the heartbreaker solo on the Page and Plant
tour in 96. He froze for a few seconds then recovered by playing further
down the piece. The crowd knew it and clapped regardless.

[moonpie]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:58:15 +1000, "Grinner" <Gri...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

He didnt play it well when I saw the same tour in Atlanta. It doesnt
seem like he has been able to play it at full speed, without riddled
of errors, since about 1975.

Oh well.. he' still better than me.

[jtees4]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:09:16 +0200, "RK" <flemm...@mail.tele.dk>
wrote:

>Though been playing for decades:
>
>Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
>just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

Seriously...I've written some great parts to my songs that started as
a mistake. But soloing, it happens not much you can do. Just have a
starting point to jump back to when it happens. When I hit a bum note
I sometimes just bend it until it makes sense...if that makes sense.
********
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[jtees4]

Cool....I never knew that...but then again I never could understand
many of the lyrics to begin with.
********
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[JimT]

LOL. I thought it was part of the song.

[JimT]

> Hungry Diva
>

Somebody needs a Snickers.

[Carl]

I am far from the consummate soloist or improviser, but I've learned enough
to know that any "wrong" note can only be a 1/2 step away from a "right"
note. Gypsy-jazz players, for example, almost always play their arpeggiated
solos by beginning with the notes 1/2 step below (or as much as a whole step
from above) the actual notes in the arpeggio.

Try treating the "wrong" note as a passing tone to the nearest "right" note
and just keep going.

Does anybody else think like this?

[moonpie]

"jazz is just a fret away"

thats been my slogan for about 30 years now.

[RK]

"Carl" <crot...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> skrev i meddelelsen
news:4e776d1d$0$4379$607e...@cv.net...

Interesting to hear your opinions. This is not a pentatonic matter. The
worst problem I see is when you have rehearsed (cover) a solo which is
played over a more sophisticated chord progression. When I loose it and hit
a bum note it's next to impossible to get into the proper note sequence
again. The chain is broken! Wave the white flag, surrender ;-)

[Dr. Zontar]

On Sep 19, 12:23 pm, "Carl" <croth...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:

> Try treating the "wrong" note as a passing tone to the nearest "right" note
> and just keep going.
>
> Does anybody else think like this?

Yep. I think Charlie Parker once said that you can play ANY note, if
you know how to resolve it. I do a lot of things that squeeze
chromatic licks in between pentatonic ones. If you end on a strong
chord tone (like the root or fifth), then you can throw in a lot of
"outside" notes on the way. Think of it as building tension, then
releasing it.

- Rich

[Carl]

Yeah, I sort of get that, especially since I'm inferring that you're trying
to do a note-for-note cover. But what I've expressed here is not much
different than other posters' suggestions that you 'bend' your way out of
it.

With all due respect, and reminding you once again that I am not a good
soloist myself so that whatever I'm saying is as hypothetical for you as it
is to me, perhaps it's that you're spending too much energy on memorizing
those solos by rote instead of understanding them, which would more enable
you to 'recover', ie. put aside the note-for-note rendition and modify it a
little.

My experience says that while you may, or a great guitarist may notice the
difference, the average audience member wouldn't have a clue that you
changed the solo.

[Carl]

I think this is exactly the idea. I think that even if you're not quite good
enough to know where all the roots and 5ths are, moving from the 'wrong'
note (which is, indeed, an 'outside note') to any scale tone will be better
than trying to find your way back to the pre-planned solo and sounding lost.
Thanks.

To the OP: I wish I could implement my own ideas as easily as I can write
about them, so please don't take anything I say as a criticism of your
problem- just as part of the general discussion.

[Lord Valve]

Somebody needs musical education.

Hint: not me.


Lord Valve
Organist

[Mark Bedingfield]

Amen to that. Do it again and show it off as talent. :-) I don't learn
solo's note for note I just work with the patterns, when I hit a bum
note (poor choice or accident) I just bowl along with it. No one is
perfect, except Mark Knopfler. :-) I notice it but half the time even my
band mates don't.

Mark

[klaw]

show biz rule # 1: the show must go on.

[Lord Valve]

This'll take 45 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsnh21ae6YI&feature=related

I don't expect you to understand why "Louie Louie" is
crap when you're finished watching it (if you do indeed
manage to make it all the way to the end) but you might
at least garner an inkling as to why an "early guitarist"
might want to aspire to something a little more evolved
than a piece of horrid dreck like that abominable Kingsmen
mess.


Got chops?


Lord Valve
Musician

[JimT]

Blood sugar low?

Nobody said the Kingsmen were Mozart.

[White Spirit]

On 18/09/2011 20:13, boardjunkie1 wrote:

> On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, "RK"<flemmin...@mail.tele.dk> wrote:

>> Though been playing for decades:

>> Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
>> just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

> Most players will do this all the time. You just need to know how to
> improvise well enough to get back on track quickly. Better players can
> actually make the wrong note work for them. IE switching from major to
> minor just for a second to make it sound like yer smartin' off instead
> of try'n to pull out of a bunk note. It comes with experience....

Apparently, Ritchie Blackmore did precisely that when recording the
intro to Speed King on In Rock.

[White Spirit]

On 19/09/2011 05:36, DeeAa wrote:

> Just make sure you play that wrong note again, as if intended, and people
> think you're incorporating some jazzy weird stuff, not making a mistake.

Or, follow it up with a flurry of wrong notes played at immense speed
and people will think you're influenced by Slayer.

[TheChris]

"RK" <flemm...@mail.tele.dk> wrote in news:4e7633cc$0$56769
$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk:

> Though been playing for decades:
>
> Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and
then
> just don't know how to continue, know this situ???
>

Do like Dickey Betts did on "Mountain Jam" - just hit the same note over
and over so people will think you planned it :)

Typically, what I do is just revert to a lead position I'm very familiar
with - like the first - and just do some Ace Frehley bends and hammer
ons.... Honestly, that's what I do :)

[Les Cargill]

You can't go wrong with Ace. Change the phrasing a bit, and they
even work in country songs.

--
Les Cargill

[moonpie]

Ace was the first guitar player I could actually play anything "kewl"
from. At the time, the early to mid 70s, all the other big boys in
rock were too advanced or weird, I couldnt figure out much that they
did. Maybe Harrison was an earlier influence on me. But I learned a
lot from Ace Frehley.

[Lawrence Logic]

"RK" wrote in message
news:4e77770b$0$56782$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

>
> Interesting to hear your opinions. This is not a pentatonic matter. The
> worst problem I see is when you have rehearsed (cover) a solo which is
> played over a more sophisticated chord progression. When I loose it and
> hit a bum note it's next to impossible to get into the proper note
> sequence again. The chain is broken! Wave the white flag, surrender ;-)

Surrender isn't much of an option. As well as practising the note-for-note
version, you should probably also practise deviating from that. If you
become accustomed to improvising over those chords, you'll be better
equipped to recover in the event that you drop a wheel on the grass and
start going sideways.

--
Lawrence
"Swallow, come!" - Sea Man - 21 April 2010

[jtees4]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:12:31 -0400, moonpie <mr_rc_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

That's how I felt about Leslie West way back in the day. I could never
play anything by anyone else. Leslie was simple, tasty, but still
great.
********
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[Tony Done]

"RK" wrote in message
news:4e7633cc$0$56769$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

Though been playing for decades:

Having rehearsed a solo over and over I suddenly hit a wrong note and then
just don't know how to continue, know this situ???

*************

There's a (paraphrased) quote from one of the famous metal heroes, maybe
someone will remember who - "I knew I'd made it when they started copying my
clams".

Tony D

[jtees4]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 06:50:48 +1000, "Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

That's a great quote...gotta find out who said it.
********
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[Lawrence Logic]

"jtees4" wrote in message
news:k702879g2ir94lnq6...@4ax.com...

>
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 06:50:48 +1000, "Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> There's a (paraphrased) quote from one of the famous metal heroes, maybe
>> someone will remember who - "I knew I'd made it when they started copying
>> my
>> clams".
>>

> That's a great quote...gotta find out who said it.
>

I don't know the actual answer, but it's the sort of thing that Angus Young
could have said - a la "I just learnt one guitar solo and made a career out
of it" (or something like that) from a Guitar Player magazine (or something
like that) interview about 20 years ago...

--
Lawrence
"They even have a bacon sundae for dessert" - Eric Cartman - 25 May 2011

[Dr. Zontar]

> Blood sugar low?
>
> Nobody said the Kingsmen were Mozart.

I'll go one better. The Kingsmen were *BETTER* than Mozart. So there.
I'd also rather hear The Trashmen's "Surfin' Bird" than anything in
the Beethoven catalog. Stupid, 3-chord rock is a wonderful thing.

Actually, "Louie Louie" was written by Richard Berry, not the
Kingsmen. But why should facts get in the way of a good LV rant?

- Rich

[notbob]

On 2011-09-28, Dr. Zontar <drzo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Actually, "Louie Louie" was written by Richard Berry, not the
> Kingsmen. But why should facts get in the way of a good LV rant?

Who never saw a cent from the song. Even the Kingsmen took 20 yrs
suing their label to get any $$$. Anyone claiming the RIAA is
protecting artist's rights is a fool.

nb

[Lord Valve]

...

And another no-blower fucktard from the "eat
shit - 60,000,000,000,000,000 flies can't be
wrong" camp weighs in...


Got chops? <smirk>


Lord Valve
Musician

[Dr. Zontar]

On Sep 28, 1:15 pm, Lord Valve <detri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> And another no-blower fucktard from the "eat
> shit - 60,000,000,000,000,000 flies can't be
> wrong" camp weighs in...

Have you ever actually heard me play? I'm not about to get in a
pissing match with ANYONE, let alone an overly opinionated,
neoconservative, blowhard on the web. But really, how can you critique
the skills of someone you've never heard, or the IQ of someone you've
never met?

Okay, so you think "Louie Louie" is shit. Fine. That's your right. But
I happen to think that simplicity is a good thing. Sometimes it can be
more moving and powerful than complexity. I spent my teenage years
listening to Miles Davis, Frank Zappa and Igor Stravinsky. Now, in my
40s, I'd much rather hear The Ramones or an early Kinks song. It's not
about chops. Chops only count when you're trying to impress another
player. It's all about the SONG. And countless people have proven that
all you need to move people are 3 chords, a backbeat, and something to
say. If you can't grasp that, I feel sorry for you.

- Rich

[Lord Valve]

You like low-class amateur crap. <shrug>

Go right ahead, son. You've got tons of
company. You think the Kingsmen are
better than Mozart, and the Trashmen
are better than Beethoven - and you
feel sorry for *me*. I've been running a
music store for three decades; I've met
10,000 more just like you. Losers to a
man. Have a nice life.

[JimT]

On 9/28/2011 3:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
> "Dr. Zontar" wrote:
>
>> On Sep 28, 1:15 pm, Lord Valve<detri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And another no-blower fucktard from the "eat
>>> shit - 60,000,000,000,000,000 flies can't be
>>> wrong" camp weighs in...
>> Have you ever actually heard me play? I'm not about to get in a
>> pissing match with ANYONE, let alone an overly opinionated,
>> neoconservative, blowhard on the web. But really, how can you critique
>> the skills of someone you've never heard, or the IQ of someone you've
>> never met?
>>
>> Okay, so you think "Louie Louie" is shit. Fine. That's your right. But
>> I happen to think that simplicity is a good thing. Sometimes it can be
>> more moving and powerful than complexity. I spent my teenage years
>> listening to Miles Davis, Frank Zappa and Igor Stravinsky. Now, in my
>> 40s, I'd much rather hear The Ramones or an early Kinks song. It's not
>> about chops. Chops only count when you're trying to impress another
>> player. It's all about the SONG. And countless people have proven that
>> all you need to move people are 3 chords, a backbeat, and something to
>> say. If you can't grasp that, I feel sorry for you.
>>
>> - Rich

> I've been running my mouth for three decades...
>
>
>
> Lard Vulva
>
>
>
>

FTFY

[Les Cargill]

Better *for what*? Beethoven isn't
very good for drunk people to dance to, in
my experience. Random selections from the
soundtrack to "Guys and Dolls" ain't, either.

> - and you
> feel sorry for *me*. I've been running a
> music store for three decades; I've met
> 10,000 more just like you. Losers to a
> man. Have a nice life.
>
>
> Got chops?<smirk>
>
>
> Lord Valve
> Musician
>
>
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[dvaoa]

On Sep 19, 1:10 pm, "Dr. Zontar" <drzon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 19, 12:23 pm, "Carl" <croth...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
> > Try treating the "wrong" note as a passing tone to the nearest "right" note
> > and just keep going.
>
> > Does anybody else think like this?
>
> Yep. I think Charlie Parker once said that you can play ANY note, if
> you know how to resolve it. I do a lot of things that squeeze
> chromatic licks in between pentatonic ones. If you end on a strong
> chord tone (like the root or fifth), then you can throw in a lot of
> "outside" notes on the way. Think of it as building tension, then
> releasing it.
>
> - Rich

I don't recall the context, but I saw one instructional video where
the guy was pushing moving up a half step for the solo, then resolving
right before the end by moving back down to the right key. It
actually sounded good.

-d

[RichL]

"Lord Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4E838138...@ix.netcom.com...

> Go right ahead, son. You've got tons of
> company. You think the Kingsmen are
> better than Mozart, and the Trashmen
> are better than Beethoven - and you
> feel sorry for *me*. I've been running a
> music store for three decades; I've met
> 10,000 more just like you. Losers to a
> man. Have a nice life.

Hey, I'm just wondering if those "10,000 more just like you" include Derek
Trucks, I mean hey, he's just playing simple "three-chord" crap too. No?
Could that be because he's feeding both your business and your ego?

What a fraud.

[Lawrence Logic]

"Lord Valve" wrote in message news:4E83564E...@ix.netcom.com...

>
> "Dr. Zontar" wrote:
>
>> Actually, "Louie Louie" was written by Richard Berry, not the
>> Kingsmen. But why should facts get in the way of a good LV rant?
>>

> And another no-blower fucktard from the "eat
> shit - 60,000,000,000,000,000 flies can't be
> wrong" camp weighs in...
>

http://tinyurl.com/louiethefly

The end of an era!

--
Lawrence
"They're French, so they surrendered immediately!" - NATO Captain - 22 April
2009

[Lord Valve]

RichL wrote:

> "Lord Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:4E838138...@ix.netcom.com...
>
> > Go right ahead, son. You've got tons of
> > company. You think the Kingsmen are
> > better than Mozart, and the Trashmen
> > are better than Beethoven - and you
> > feel sorry for *me*. I've been running a
> > music store for three decades; I've met
> > 10,000 more just like you. Losers to a
> > man. Have a nice life.
>
> Hey, I'm just wondering if those "10,000 more just like you" include Derek
> Trucks,

Why, no, they wouldn't.

I don't think he would ever make a mind-bogglingly
stupid statement like "The Kingsmen were *BETTER*
than Mozart." And he's demonstrably not a no-blower,
has impeccable taste and mad guitar skills.

> I mean hey, he's just playing simple "three-chord" crap too. No?

No.

Derek's book has tunes by Trane, Shorter, Mongo Santamaría,
Miles, Diz, Dr. Billy Taylor and many many more I could name.
Next time you see him, you can ask him about his repertoire...
if you can shout loudly enough for him to hear you from the
nosebleed seats.

> Could that be because he's feeding both your business and your ego?

Is this really all you've got?

Every time your undies bunch up on you, you feel the need
to snipe about Derek? "Oh, Derek this, Derek that, what
would Derek say if he knew this or that..." The cat's my friend,
and has been for over 13 years. It doesn't have anything to
do with money or politics. Fuck you with a rake if you
don't like it, you pissant cocksucker.

> What a fraud.

What a whiny little girl.

And I've heard *you* play. Laughable.


Got chops? <snicker>


Lord Valve
Organist

[RichL]

"Lord Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:4E83D1AB...@ix.netcom.com...

> And I've heard *you* play. Laughable.
>
> Got chops? <snicker>

Heh. Valvie conveniently forgets that he *praised* my playing before he
decided he didn't like my politics. Which is exactly why I brought up the
Derek Trucks thing: the double-standard in action. Politics suddenly
doesn't matter (as in LV's interactions with DT) if money winds up in his
pocket.

[Dr. Zontar]

On Sep 28, 10:02 pm, Lord Valve <detri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> I don't think he would ever make a mind-bogglingly
> stupid statement like "The Kingsmen were *BETTER*
> than Mozart."  And he's demonstrably not a no-blower,
> has impeccable taste and mad guitar skills.

Anyone who would take a statement like that at face value is an idiot.
I don't feel compelled to put smiley faces in my posts to point out
when I'm joking. I assume people are smart enough to figure it out.
But since you seem pretty dense, I'll explain. "The Kingsmen are
better than Mozart" was a joke, because: (A) "better" is a subjective
term that means nothing when discussing music, and (B) Mozart is a
standard of sophistication that I was invoking for absurdist effect.
I'm sure the Kingsmen themselves would laugh at that. Although I
prefer Bach, I do actually like Mozart.

But I do stand by my statement that "simplicity is good". You don't
need to play 32nd note exotic scale licks to be a good musician. I
think George Harrison's guitar solos are far more memorable than
anything Wankie Malmsteen ever played. Why? Because Harrison's solos
are SINGABLE. They have melodic statements that listeners can follow,
not just a flurry of notes. In the end, that's what makes a song work
- it stirs something emotional.

And, I was serious about feeling sorry for anyone who can't appreciate
good simplicity. If you can listen to a Ramones or early Kinks song
without feeling a rush of adrenaline, then you should give up music
and become an accountant.

- Rich

[Dr. Zontar]

On Sep 29, 4:17 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Heh.  Valvie conveniently forgets that he *praised* my playing before he
> decided he didn't like my politics.  

That's pretty shallow. I've brought up The Ramones a few times. I love
their music, despite Johnny Ramone being a Republican.

> Which is exactly why I brought up the
> Derek Trucks thing: the double-standard in action.  Politics suddenly
> doesn't matter (as in LV's interactions with DT) if money winds up in his
> pocket.

That's pretty much the way of all conservatives. Money trumps values.
"So what if they're pink? Their money's green."

- Rich

[moonpie]

BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


nope.

nice stereotyping and bigotry, tho.


I busted you before on this remember, with your bullshit comments
about people living below the mason-dixon line.

[Dr. Zontar]

On Sep 29, 9:27 am, moonpie <mr_rc_moon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 05:32:50 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Zontar"

> >That's pretty much the way of all conservatives. Money trumps values.
>
> BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
>
> nope.
>
> nice stereotyping and bigotry, tho.

Seriously? Do you really think so? I'll get back to this in a moment.

> I busted you before on this remember, with your bullshit comments
> about people living below the mason-dixon line.

Yes. I resorted to an ugly stereotype about Southerners. And you were
absolutely right to call me on it. But if you'll remember, I
apologized. And I've stated here that one of my heroes lives south of
the Mason-Dixon line (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center).

But getting back to conservatives and values... most of the hardcore,
conservative Republicans I've encountered *ARE* focused on money.
That's *WHY* they become conservative Republicans in the first place.
They may give lip service to religion or social causes, but when push
comes to shove, they'll go for the money every time. If it's any
consolation, the majority of liberals will also sell out if given the
chance.

- Rich

[Lord Valve]

"Dr. Zontar" wrote:

> And I've stated here that one of my heroes lives south of
> the Mason-Dixon line (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center).

Morris Dees is a race-hustling piece of leftist shit. He's in it for the
money.

Got guns?

Lord Valve
American - so far

[Les Cargill]

Dr. Zontar wrote:
> On Sep 29, 9:27 am, moonpie<mr_rc_moon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 05:32:50 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Zontar"
>>> That's pretty much the way of all conservatives. Money trumps values.
>>
>> BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
>>
>> nope.
>>
>> nice stereotyping and bigotry, tho.
>
> Seriously? Do you really think so? I'll get back to this in a moment.
>
>> I busted you before on this remember, with your bullshit comments
>> about people living below the mason-dixon line.
>
> Yes. I resorted to an ugly stereotype about Southerners. And you were
> absolutely right to call me on it. But if you'll remember, I
> apologized. And I've stated here that one of my heroes lives south of
> the Mason-Dixon line (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center).
>

Meh. Whatever. Southern stereotypes don't hold up to
empirical analysis very well, but they serve to slow
down the migration pattern, so they're Useful.

So when you live in Florida long enough, you see
this mixture of ... Larry The Cable Guy and Jersey
Shore ... ethos.

> But getting back to conservatives and values... most of the hardcore,
> conservative Republicans I've encountered *ARE* focused on money.

I'd disagree a bit. There's an emphasis on money as a survival
strategy. Behind that is a general belief that things are gonna crash
hard. This is about independence first. I think that's why it
offends people who hold that buy-in to "social" causes is how
progress happens. This is a fundamental values
shear.

Conservatives tend to be skeptical of the ability of the economy
to continue to provide a living more than any sort of Mammon worship.
You have to get pretty far up the food chain to get to the
"money is keeping score" level, and that's not happening in
the South much outside of Houston.

This being said, the various megachurches have embraced "prosperity
gospel", but I think that's an effect, not a cause. When people
don't just have "job" jobs, but are one-man companies, they will
gravitate towards that message naturally. Since the late '80s,
that is what has happened. For low population density regions,
that means they're isolated without the churches.

But for economic reasons, the sort that James McMurtry writes
songs about, there's close to nothing left *but* churches
in places. Oddly enough, this recession may reverse that
some.

> That's *WHY* they become conservative Republicans in the first place.
> They may give lip service to religion or social causes, but when push
> comes to shove, they'll go for the money every time. If it's any
> consolation, the majority of liberals will also sell out if given the
> chance.
>

Selling out is an excellent end game strategy.

> - Rich

--
Les Cargill

[moonpie]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Zontar"
<drzo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sep 29, 9:27 am, moonpie <mr_rc_moon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 05:32:50 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Zontar"
>> >That's pretty much the way of all conservatives. Money trumps values.
>>
>> BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
>>
>> nope.
>>
>> nice stereotyping and bigotry, tho.
>
>Seriously? Do you really think so? I'll get back to this in a moment.
>
>> I busted you before on this remember, with your bullshit comments
>> about people living below the mason-dixon line.
>
>Yes. I resorted to an ugly stereotype about Southerners. And you were
>absolutely right to call me on it. But if you'll remember, I
>apologized. And I've stated here that one of my heroes lives south of
>the Mason-Dixon line (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center).
>
>But getting back to conservatives and values... most of the hardcore,
>conservative Republicans I've encountered *ARE* focused on money.

"You've encountered" doesnt translate into "pretty much the way of all
conservatives".

why dont you and RichL take this over to alt.guitar.amps where its the
norm and welcome.

[RK]

Somebody hit a bum note converstion wise ;-)



"Dr. Zontar" <drzo...@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelelsen
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