URGENT: Mesa Boogie and Engineering ISSUES:
RAC
Hello folks,
Thought the whole world would like to see how a very large customer of
this company is treated after I supposedly erroneously quoted a price I
paid for something:
Amazing, how this works...too bad emails can be saved and forwarded.
Maybe The owner of the company will address Tien's concerns.
Cheers.
Subject:
(none)
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:52:10 +0100
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
To:
"RAC <rco...@attglobal.net>" <RAC <rco...@attglobal.net>>
Rich,
Why do you think it is necessary for you to print incorrect prices on
what
we sell so that others call me and expect the same price(incorrectly
stated
by you). These customers then "haggle" with me because they think they
aren't getting the best price( because of what you print) instead of
realizing that this is a great product at an outstanding. This is not
the
first time this has happened! I never quoted you that price for EL-34's.
I
never quoted you or sold you a used Tigris for $1250 either. I have
dealt
with customers who read your postings and felt I was lying or not
providing
a fair price compared to what you got. The Baron amp you got was not in
perfect condition, and was priced accordingly. You also seem to think
that
it is important to mention in every e-mail you have sent me how much you
have had to pay, as if I should be thankful for providing you with "a
real
bargain" at such an outrageous price.
You are making this job very difficult for me, and while we certainly
appreciate the recommendation in a good light. Perhaps you either don't
remember how much you spent,( which I doubt is the case since you make
it so
clear to me each time you mail how much your time is worth and how much
you
have spent on a particular product) or you just don't care. I was
reluctant
to deal with you after you forced the first order for the Tigris on me
through nasty e-mails about needing one YESTERDAY etc..., and then the
issues and "cold tone" in your e-mails with regard to schematics. I will
again reiterate how clear you have made it to me that I've done you no
favors in the amps you have recieved from me, but in all of your web
postings you seem to think you've done rather well and then misrepresent
our
transactions in web postings.
I am sorry to have to send this e-mail and for the way our transactions
have
all ended. I must say that I have never tried to "sell" you an
amplifier,
and I have only tried to provide one when you asked. Perhaps you don't
realize the ramifications of such postings. Again, we do appreciate any
kind
words you may have with regard to our products, but I must admit to my
job
being more difficult because of your postings, especially with regard to
your posting incorrect prices and incorrect information. This is clearly
not
appreciated.
Please respond if you feel it is necessary.
Tien Lawrence
Dear Experts and Readers alike,
You can get a used one delivered by Mesa in perfect shape with all the
TRI POWER mods for $1650.
contact ti...@mesaboogie.com + Warranty, shipping box and manual. Comes
with 5881's though so this is a real bargain $150 more for EL34's,
depends on what brand...that's $150/12 = $12.50 more per
tube...matched...12.
Nice amp.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Tien Lawrence
Product Specialist
Tech Support/Customer Service
Customer Service Hours: 9:00 AM-5:00 PM Pacific...Closed Fridays
Subject:
RE: Price for a "B" Stock Baron
Date:
Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:08:57 +0100
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
To:
RAC <rco...@ibm.net>
Hi Rich,
I have an amp that I will include pictures of with this mail.
The amp has
all mods and is current, including Tri-Tube capability. It fully checked
up
and in perfect working order with some nicks and chips at the paint in
some
areas. The photos should reveal the dinged areas. This amp will sell for
$1650.00 plus shipping. If you are interested, feel free to contact me
via
e-mail or by phone at 707-778-6565. Glad to hear the Tigris is working
well.
Cheers,
Tien
Subject:
RE: Baron Price and Tube Complement + Warranty
Date:
Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:43:11 +0100
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
To:
RAC <rco...@ibm.net>
Hi Rich,
The amp is currently loaded with Mesa tested 5881's, a military
version of
6L6 that the amp was originally designed around the use of. The tubes
have
been tested and have a minimum of usage. This amp was a review return
from 2
different magazines. It has a bit of road wear(shipping) but has minimal
usage. The amp will carry a warranty of one year, and all Mesa tubes
carry a
six month warranty. Original owners of the Baron are entitled to a 50%
retube discount making the cost of a set of the stock 5881's $144.00. We
do
have a limited stock of Sylvania tubes from the last manufacturing run
in
1985, probably less than 500 left, and they sell for $75.00 ea. They are
not
used in any current production and are available for individuals who
have
older Boogies whose amps were designed around the use of that tube when
they
were readily available. We do not sell the KT-90's or KT-99's. If you
want
to use those tubes, you will have to acquire them from another supplier.
The
preamp tubes are 12AX7's. We do offer matched sets of the Tesla E34L,
and
Svetlana EL-34's. The Svet 34's are perhaps slightly less refined than
the
Tesla's, but the Svets are longer lasting and less expensive. The
recommended 5881 alternative and available as matched sets from Mesa.
Svetlana EL-34's sell for $225.00 for the set, and the Tesla's sell for
$480.00 per set. A manual is included with the amp. The boxed amp weighs
86
lbs. The unit itself weighs in at approx. 75 lbs. The unit does come
with
power cords and they are of course the heaviest guage we carry as the
Baron
is one of our higher current/voltage circuits. I hope this answers your
questions.
Cheers,
Tien
Rich,
The Tri-Tube mod allows for the use of different tubes like the
ones you've
mentioned. Different types of tubes will have bias setting points in
different places on the meters. The photo(s) I sent you are of the unit
that
is available. The picture of the front of the Baron I realize is not as
clear as I would have hoped, but I think it is detailed enough to
display
the condition of the meters. We do not have the manual available in pdf.
format. Sorry to say. If you give the word, that amp could arrive sooner
or
at the same time as the manual, but I'll be bhappy to send a manual out
as
well. Please advise if you would like just the manual sent. If you
decided
to get the amp loaded with other types of tubes that we carry, the cost
of
the tubes would be the upcharge. Installation and burn-in are at no
charge.
Cheers,
Tien
Rich,
I'll try to send a copy via fax. It will be many pages. Hope thefax can
handle it. I would not send you an amp whose metersdid not work. How
would
you adjust the bias properly? Again, reference the picture for overall
condition. They are not broken. The 400+ is a Bass amp and was
specifically
designed for that pourpose. It is not full range oriented like true
Hi-Fi
amp is or at least should be. I would recommend against this amp for
Home
audio. The only other "Boogie" that has been usedwith decent success in
Home
audio is the Mesa Strategy 400. With mods done here at the factory, they
can
be quite good, but still no where near the detail of the Baron.
Cheers,
Tien
Hi Rich,
Consider the amp ordered. It will leave tomorrow. I will provide
a tracking
# when it is available. Thanks for your patience!
Cheers,
Tien
Subject:
RE: ORDER (1) Baron Demo B Stock Reviewr Model
Date:
Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:19:11 +0100
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
To:
RAC <rco...@ibm.net>
Rich,
Here is your tracking #. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx (I change this for
privacy). Sent via FedEx Express Saver
(3-day). Enjoy and thanks for your patience. The Schematic is in the
mail!
Tien
PROBLEM TIME:
Subject:
RE: URGENT: Baron Problem Found: See Eric Carlson
Date:
Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:47:08 +0100
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
To:
RAC <rco...@attglobal.net>
The resistors are in the mail!
===== Original Message from RAC <rco...@attglobal.net> at 10/05/99 1:09
pm
>Hi Tien,
>
>First, let me say thanks for working the problem...
>
>Second, let me say thanks for getting the Baron guy involved.
>
>After Eric fax'd me the TRI-POWER mod. information, I found it
>immediately. Someone either at Mesa or where ever, whomever did the
>mod., did not test for E34L's and if they had would have found the WRONG
>resistor value on the balance POT (read bias for rear 3 tubes Channel
>A), hence the reason the bias would not swing positive enough to give
>the current draw needed...it's I believe a larger resistor than the 56K
>it should be. This is evidenced by the 20-22mA max. draw on the tubes,
>per tube....all other circuitry checks out fine.
>
>To end, please overnight, yes overnight me the correct R - 56K, give me
>at least 4 so if they get hosed in the installation I have a fall back,
>in addition please provide 8-16 - 22 Ohm R's for the cathodes, just in
>case when I do the installation of the E34L's one blows or a few. Eric
>and I agreed that this is a minor cost to Mesa v. me sending the entire
>amp back at your cost to have it corrected. It should cost you more
>than $5.
>
>Your call. Thanks and I look forward to a bag of Resistors asap.
>
>Maybe you could swing me a deal to get me 6CA7's the STR one's at a
>reduced rate...??? I will get with my accountant.
>
>Please have your TRI-POWER Test plan and upgrade plan revised to double
>check Resistor values on the POTS AND get Randy to give you guys funds
>for a matched 12 of E34L's, EL34's and KT90's...it would save you folks
>time, money and effort...+ you'd have even more satisfied customers.
>Trust me, $1200 worth of tubes in a test lab that validate the Baron's
>would have saved me my time...by the way, my hourly rate is $195-$300/hr
>as a consultant...I spent at least 4 hours on this problem...not to
>whine but to put time in perspective.
>
>Thanks Tien.
>
>Hats off to Eric.
>
PS: I own 15 of the original Mesa Units and a TIGRIS and a Baron...+
>numerous Marshall and AMPEG standards...I would say you are up there in
>service with them and Peavey....
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Tien Lawrence
Product Specialist
Tech Support/Customer Service
Customer Service Hours: 9:00 AM-5:00 PM Pacific...Closed Fridays
Subject:
Tigris Owner Needs Schematic and what voltage output of
preout and
Date:
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:28:00 -0800
From:
Tien Lawrence <ti...@mesaboogie.com>
Organization:
Mesa/Boogie
To:
rco...@ibm.net (RAC)
======== Original Message ========
John or Tien,
I bought your Mesa Engineering Tigris via Tien.
Here's the deal, how do I get a Schematic, knowing I am a tech and an
MSEE?
I need to know the voltage output of the PREAMP OUT and the TAPE OUT,
one has the Volume POT and one is not on a POT but a
passthrough...reason
is that I am second system connecting it to a CROWN K2 for a large
estate, home, mine. The K2 needs 1.75 Volts to drive to full power.
I am running 16 speakers off a 4 ohm load line to the Crown and the
choice of PREAMP OUT or TAPE OUT is very important for input match.
Please let this VERY satisfied customer know at your earliest
convenience.
Sincerely love this amp.
Ship schematic to:
======== Fwd by: Tien Lawrence ========
Hi Rich,
Glad to hear the amp is working well for you. The Tape out is a
parallel
tap that provides the same level of output as the source in use with the
amp. Reference your source component currently in use for its voltage
output. The Preamp level out is obviously a variable control that ranges
from 0-3 Volts depending on the preamp level setting and also the front
panel volume control. I would recommend setting this control to taste as
opposed to trying to find an exact voltage, as I am sure that the range
of
control of the Preamp Out is specifically designed for the use that you
are
applying it to. I would think a 40-60% setting should be sufficient and
within the 1.5-2volt range you are seeking.
With regard to the schematic.
Here's the deal, how do I get a Schematic, knowing I am a tech and an
MSEE?
This is stated in such a way that I wonder, should we be concerned about
providing you with a schematic? Our general policy is to provide
schematics
to authorized dealers and repair stations only. If someone was to have
some
sort of difficulty with an amplifier, and the schematic can be of some
help
in the individual getting the amplifier back up and running, we may
consider
sending the part of the schematic that is relative to the area in
questions.
Also, what is an MSEE?
I am glad to hear of the good experience with the amp, and I look
forward to
hearing from you. I hope the voltage information is helpful to you as
well.
Cheers,
Tien
DEidelberg
amps and forgetten about anal engineers with high-end audio systems. Puhleeze!
What else do you want Tien to do? Seems to me he's providing you with great
customer service and you're responding by being a royal pain in the ass. Work
WITH them and not against them.
Audiotech
DEidelberg wrote in message
<19991022144539...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
DITTO!
Talk about going above and beyond! (AFA Tien anyways).
Brian Rost
>
> Consumers will prevail.
>
> Hello folks,
>
> Thought the whole world would like to see how a very large customer of
> this company is treated after I supposedly erroneously quoted a price I
> paid for something:
So what is your f**ing point?
--
Brian Rost
3Com Corp.
508-323-2029
br...@3com-ne.com
*********************************************************************
Playing the bass is like dancing the limbo: how low can you go?
*********************************************************************
RAC
Someone posts a FS: Item Mesa Baron at $1800 with EL34's in it...I reply
to that post with a comment that I paid $1650 for mine and it came with
5881's in it, so for a minor $150 more the buyer could buy this
gentlemans amp with EL34's in it and get a great deal...MESA would
charge me as a Baron owner, a lot more than $150 for the EL34's...
Now I get nasty emails from Mesa about quoting erroneous pricing when I
never did and they never researched, called me or asked me about the
original FS item by a private party, rather they tell me they regulate
the First Amendment rights of MESA owners and how they communicate
pricing, whether or not purchases or solicitations for purchases or
sales exist at MESA Directly...
Their products have minor issues I admit, yes they fix them, after much
to do, but frankly this stuff shouldnot happen...I want users to think
about this when they buy.
I am not bashing MESA for providing bad gear, bad tubes or other, rather
the way they go about bashing their customers in email, not even nice
enough to call, then I get nasty email from someone at MESA under the
cloak of anonymity with a threat...for apology...this is frankly not the
way to do business.
What if your folks at 3COM sent this email to a user after they quoted a
price to another customer in error, betcha' the customer service folks
wouldn't be bashing customers for long...
No need to C**rse dude.
By the way, do 3COM's still use boundry routing?
Curious.
Brian Rost wrote:
>
> RAC wrote:
> >
> > Consumers will prevail.
> >
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > Thought the whole world would like to see how a very large customer of
> > this company is treated after I supposedly erroneously quoted a price I
> > paid for something:
>
Audiotech
>My point is this, I spend/spent $50K on Mesa Gear this last year.
Geez! What the hell are you using it all for (do you play stadiums)? And
whatcha got? <wry smile> :-)
>Someone posts a FS: Item Mesa Baron at $1800 with EL34's in it...I reply
>to that post with a comment that I paid $1650 for mine and it came with
>5881's in it, so for a minor $150 more the buyer could buy this
>gentlemans amp with EL34's in it and get a great deal...MESA would
>charge me as a Baron owner, a lot more than $150 for the EL34's...
>
>Now I get nasty emails from Mesa about quoting erroneous pricing when I
>never did and they never researched, called me or asked me about the
>original FS item by a private party, rather they tell me they regulate
>the First Amendment rights of MESA owners and how they communicate
>pricing, whether or not purchases or solicitations for purchases or
>sales exist at MESA Directly...
This is just very hard for me to believe-personally. Because I've NEVER had
anything but the *best* of dealings with Boogie...Tien has always been
helpful. And Mike Bendanelli can be a service tech's best friend as far as
lending a helping hand...I had a customer bring in a MKIII Simul-Class that
a guy inadvertantly left on for a weekend (w/old tubes to boot!), and
voila-Murphy's Law. A tube finally smokes (it was overdue on a good tubing
to start with), and takes out the output transformer too! Item of note: we
ARE NOT a Mesa Authorized svc. center. I was informed about their policy
re-the releasing of the Simul-Class OT to auth. svc. centers ONLY, and after
explaining further relevant circumstances, they made an exception (upon
confirmation of other info) and I had the unit back up and rockin' 2 days
later. They will however, try to sniff out the BS'rs <wannabe tech's who
have little to no clue, who are not much more than a safety hazard> and give
them the boot (refer them to a Mesa svc. center)....they just want to make
sure <understandably so> that their equipment is maintained to their
standards. And RAC-this IS NOT a jab at *you*. Just general info for the
rest of the world about *my* dealings with Mesa. Nothing but praise here!
And to some of the others out there...yes, Mesa can sound like crap, IF
you use crappy tubes...but put in some real ones and 99.9% of the time
you've got a real nice amp. NOW, before the flaming starts....This opinion
stops after the MK-IV...due to limited exposure to and interest in their
newer products....Seeing as how *I* think they've already achieved
perfection with the MK-III Simul (I've 2 of 'em, an '85 and an '89<latter of
which too many people whined about "I want more headroom," so they did the
later ones in pentode mode-which I, of course, put back into triode mode.) I
tend to drool all over myself with regard to that sweet gain factor-in
triode mode that is!
>Their products have minor issues I admit, yes they fix them, after much
>to do, but frankly this stuff shouldnot happen...I want users to think
>about this when they buy.
>
>I am not bashing MESA for providing bad gear, bad tubes or other, rather
>the way they go about bashing their customers in email, not even nice
>enough to call, then I get nasty email from someone at MESA under the
>cloak of anonymity with a threat...for apology...this is frankly not the
>way to do business.
On the last point you make I agree whole heartedly.
And if what you've said IS true, then by all means...
>> > Consumers will prevail.
and such will be reflected in their sales....
*******************************************************************
Just wanted to throw up a few thoughts from the other side of the fence so
people can make their own decisions.
Happy tones to all,
-Audiotech-
nuke
Why?
--
Dr. Nuketopia
When replying, please note that your email is *not* spam in the subject line.
DEidelberg
Why?<<
Well, he might have to check with his accountant before he can answer that
question.
DEidelberg
perfection with the MK-III Simul (I've 2 of 'em, an '85 and an '89<latter of
which too many people whined about "I want more headroom," so they did the
later ones in pentode mode-which I, of course, put back into triode mode.) I
tend to drool all over myself with regard to that sweet gain factor-in
triode mode that is!
<<
Yech! I bought a Mark III simulclass when it first came out. The rhythm 2 and
lead channels were always muddy for me. I'm much happier since I finally
traded it in on a Tremoverb after 10 years of stuggle.
Audiotech
DEidelberg wrote in message
<19991025232240...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>Yech! I bought a Mark III simulclass when it first came out. The rhythm 2
and
>lead channels were always muddy for me. I'm much happier since I finally
>traded it in on a Tremoverb after 10 years of stuggle.
I never use the rhythm2 channel by itself...It's either clean or
paint-peeling gain! I do, however use it as a "boost," when I'm already in
the lead channel (which I like-but fully noting that there have been *many*
subtle revisions in the architecture of the MKIII series. And some were not
ideal, but still a far cry better sounding than most others in the same
category and price range, all things considered -features, etc).
BTW, glad to hear you got yourself a Boog that makes you happy!
-Audiotech-