Who Raped N atalie Wood?
Veecksterama
Packard
>From: veecks...@yahoo.com (Veecksterama)
>Date: 3/1/2004 10:58 PM Central Standard Time
>I'm watching the special. Apparently it was a big Hollywood star-- who??
>
The rumor circulating for years is Kirk Douglas.
AnthonyM1970
Cinefan1969
ensure that she would get the role in Rebel Without a Cause.
starpower47
of Michael.
"Cinefan1969" <cinef...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040302012552...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Roofshadow "Administering Intoxicant With Intent To Molest" Jackson
> Kobe Bryant
LOL and feeling guilty about it!
Allyyyyyyyy
>I'm watching the special. Apparently it was a big Hollywood star-- who??
>
>
Did anybody watch this who is familiar with the way all those stars looked back
then? The guy they got for Beatty looked just like him. And the woman who
played Natalie looked just like her oldest daughter. I'm wondering if they
tried to find a lookalike for the rapist, so we could know who did it without
them specifically accusing him. He can't bring a lawsuit that way, could he?
They showed the rapist's face for a couple of seconds but I'm not familiar with
what anyone looked like, so I don't have a clue.
2nz
>From: allyy...@aol.com (Allyyyyyyyy)
>Date: 3/2/04 9:58 AM Mountain Standard Time
>Message-id: <20040302115802...@mb-m07.aol.com>
And yes, he was gay.
What A Friend We Have In Cheeses.
Mary C.
Christopher Walken involved in her death in any way. I'm not saying they were
responsible, but they surely had to know more than what was said at the time.
I really enjoyed the movie, though. The young Warren Beatty was perfect. The
girl who played Marilyn Monroe was much too skinny. The drowning scene was
hard for me to watch.
Ivana Newhouse
Message-id: <20040302115802...@mb-m07.aol.com>
>From: veecks...@yahoo.com (Veecksterama)
The guy they got for Beatty didn't look like him at all. Had it not been for
the fact that he did a great job SOUNDING like him I would not have know who he
was playing. The Walken guy, not even close, the Wagner guy was similar, the
Natalie girl did look a lot like Natasha and that Marilyn Monroe was laughable.
I have no idea who the "rapist" was but if they did the same job in getting
someone to LOOK like the real person as they did with the other cast members
you may never know who it actually was.
Alex
news:20040302010510...@mb-m25.aol.com...
> Kobe Bryant
That's one in the eye of the time-space continuum.
Alex
Corse
"Mary C." <duke...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040302120532...@mb-m01.aol.com...
------------
Since both Walken and Wagner are still alive, the network would have had a
big fat lawsuit if they tried to implicate either of them criminally in
Wood's death. We're getting used to people slandering and libeling dead
people and that anyone can get away with. But when it comes to living
people, slanderers and libelers have to be very careful.
Corse
FeAudrey
says...
>
>
>Her mother pimped her out to Nicholas Ray when Natalie was still a teenager to
>ensure that she would get the role in Rebel Without a Cause.
That was a separate issue (and chronologically previous to the rape, according
to Suzanne Finstad's biography, _Natasha_).
--
Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)!
http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey
Alasdair MacColla
> Her mother pimped her out to Nicholas Ray when Natalie was still a teenager to
> ensure that she would get the role in Rebel Without a Cause.
That's NOT in Suzanne Finstad's recent biography. It says that Mr.
Ray initiated the sex with Natalie. He also initiated it with James
Dean.
Kirk Douglas is the only movie star who was alive at the time of Ms.
Finstad's publishing deadline who fits the description of the
anonymous star. But Kirk will never get bad press for it. When he
dies, every journalist who ever sat through Fatal Attraction and Basic
Instinct will celebrate Kirk as the patriarch of a dynasty. Oops,
don't forget Traffic, which will be a classic as long as drugs are
illegal.
Alasdair MacColla
> I think the show was trying really hard not to make Robert Wagner or
> Christopher Walken involved in her death in any way. I'm not saying they were
> responsible, but they surely had to know more than what was said at the time.
As long as it wasn't murder or manslaughter (explain a motive for mere
manslaughter), then why should Walken or Wagner ever come forward with
whatever trivia they know?
>
> I really enjoyed the movie, though. The young Warren Beatty was perfect. The
> girl who played Marilyn Monroe was much too skinny. The drowning scene was
> hard for me to watch.
You mean you would be less frightened to take one of the many tourism
boats that go from LA to Catalina? Sunday night's movie was totally
staged fiction in your living room.
km39497
"klm" <nonos...@com.com> wrote in message
news:1049mem...@news.supernews.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "2nz" <tun...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> news:20040302120113...@mb-m19.aol.com...
I didn't read the latest book but the author who apparently knew who the
rapist was (emphasis on apparently) claimed it was a famous actor/producer
who was famous for his grin. That doesn't sound like Raymond Burr, it
sounds more like maybe Clark Gable?
CT Guy 102
>I didn't read the latest book but the author who apparently knew who the
>rapist was (emphasis on apparently) claimed it was a famous actor/producer
>who was famous for his grin. That doesn't sound like Raymond Burr, it
>sounds more like maybe Clark Gable?
I think Raymond Burr was gay. When was this movie on, I would have watched it.
Miracle on 34th Street is one of my holiday favorites.
Patty
> ensure that she would get the role in Rebel Without a Cause.
In the newest book by Gavin Lambert and sanctioned by Robert Wagner,
the author says that Natalie Wood lost her virginity to Nicholas Ray
at the age of 16. I wonder if she may have been raped.
Corse
x-no-archive: yes
"km39497" <krei...@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
news:c23ev1$pkj$1...@news.netins.net...
I have that book. I don't suppose it names the person. I am reading so
many books at one time I haven't gotten through the book.
--------------------
Clark Gable didn't produce. Burt Lancaster was an actor/producer known for
his grin. If any of this story is remotely true, he would be an excellent
suspect. Of course Kirk Douglas was also a smiley actor/producer. So I
guess it would be either one of them.
Corse
CT Guy 102
Thanks. Maybe they will show it again.
BALLYGRL1
his grin. If any of this story is remotely true, he would be an excellent
suspect. Of course Kirk Douglas was also a smiley actor/producer. So I
guess it would be either one of them.<<<
FWIW this is from the A-List.
"Douglas, Kirk. "The most hated man in Hollywood." Difficult to work with
(obviously). Sex addict, and was willing to physically force women to have sex
with him (which is to say, he was a rapist; among his victims were Jean Seberg
and Natalie Wood). Linked with Lauren Bacall, Joan Crawford, Marlene Dietrich,
Rita Hayworth, Patricia Neal, Gene Tierney, and Lana Turner."
Patty
don't think he raped her.
Here's an interesting article on the newest book of her life from the
gay magazine The Advocate.
http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/910/910_wood.asp
Her splendor
Gavin Lambert's page-turner of a biography captures the magic of
Hollywood legend Natalie Wood
By David Ehrenstein
From The Advocate, March 16, 2004
Natalie Wood: A Life • Gavin Lambert • Knopf • $25.95
"I first met her in the fall of 1956, when I was working as Nick Ray's
personal assistant and living with him in his Chateau Marmont
bungalow," Gavin Lambert notes matter-of-factly on page 220 of Natalie
Wood: A Life. "After she left, Nick described in his laconic way how
they were quickly attracted to each other when he interviewed her for
the part in Rebel Without a Cause; and he seemed offhandedly proud of
having taken her virginity."
That's fairly shocking in and of itself. But then on page 221 Lambert
tops it, relating a meeting he had with Wood in the 1960s when she was
preparing to star in his adaptation of his great Hollywood novel
Inside Daisy Clover. "I recalled our first meeting at the Chateau
Marmont, and the gleam of curiosity in her eyes. ‘I was wondering
exactly what was going on with you and Nick Ray,' Natalie said. ‘What
was going on,' I said, ‘was exactly what you wondered.'"
That the brilliant bisexual filmmaker Nicholas Ray was the one degree
of separation between a noted novelist, screenwriter, and film
historian and one of the most iconic stars the motion picture industry
has ever produced may sound pretty damn sensational. But as Lambert
relates it in this scrupulously written and highly insightful book, it
was just an ironic twist of fate. Even if he hadn't met her through
Ray or come to work with her years later on Inside Daisy Clover,
Lambert would have wanted to write a biography of Natalie Wood.
Miracle on 34th Street, Rebel Without a Cause, West Side Story, and
Splendor in the Grass will enthrall audiences as long as celluloid or
video copies of these films exist. Central to their success is the
startling beauty and sadly underrated talent of Wood. And Lambert,
whose nonfiction works include Norma Shearer, On Cukor, Nazimova, and
Mainly About Lindsay Anderson, is the ideal writer to illuminate it.
One of the very few child stars to make the transition to adult roles,
Wood arrived as the studio system was on the wane. Yet unlike so many
others, she managed to prove herself adaptable to the shifting demands
of Hollywood over three tumultuous decades in which she married,
divorced, and remarried actor Robert Wagner—with a marriage to agent
Richard Gregson and a host of affairs in between.
And this in turn brings up the gay angle, for besides Nicholas Ray,
Natalie Wood was the "Grace" to an army of Hollywood "Wills,"
including James Dean, Tab Hunter, Nick Adams, Scott Marlowe, and
Raymond Burr. The brilliant but utterly self-loathing Jerome Robbins
even asked her to marry him. No fool, she politely declined,
preferring to do her part for gay history by supporting Mart Crowley
in a manner that made it possible for him to write his seminal The
Boys in the Band. He had planned to do something for her by adapting
Dorothy Baker's novel about twin sisters, Cassandra at the Wedding,
for the screen. But Hollywood wasn't ready for twin Natalie Woods—one
of whom would have been a lesbian.
Lord knows it would be just the ticket for today. But we'll have to
content ourselves with the movies she did manage to leave behind and
be grateful that Gavin Lambert was given the opportunity to illuminate
her life so well.
Ehrenstein is the author of Open Secret: Gay Hollywood, 1928–2000.
CT Guy 102
>"Douglas, Kirk. "The most hated man in Hollywood." Difficult to work with
>(obviously). Sex addict, and was willing to physically force women to have
>sex with him (which is to say, he was a rapist; among his victims were Jean
>Seberg and Natalie Wood). Linked with Lauren Bacall, Joan Crawford, Marlene
>Dietrich, Rita Hayworth, Patricia Neal, Gene Tierney, and Lana Turner."
He was a real snake. His son and daughter in law apparently learned from him.
Patty
$25.95.
Equipped for Stardom, Alas— Natalie Wood's Unhappy Career
by Scott Eyman
New York Observer
Excerpt:
On the evidence of Mr. Lambert's book, Natalie Wood had a life that
might gently be termed "uneasy." Born Natasha Gurdin, the fruit of an
extramarital affair, she was pushed into show business by her mother,
a real-life Mama Rose. Natasha was very Russian, very emotional: She
lost her virginity to the bisexual, addictive personality who went by
the name of Nicholas Ray and served as another notch on Warren
Beatty's bedpost, which seems to have induced a mysterious suicide
attempt.
Wood had rotten luck, some of it self-induced. While she was filming
the hideous Penelope, Mr. Beatty offered her the role of Bonnie in
Bonnie and Clyde, but she turned it down because she didn't want to be
separated from her psychiatrist by a long location shoot. She turned
down William Wyler's The Collector in order to do Gavin Lambert's own
adaptation of his novel, Inside Daisy Clover. Both films were downbeat
hothouse flowers, but Wyler wasn't about to be manhandled by the
studio, while Inside Daisy Clover was bound to be. For too much of her
limited time, Wood was stuck churning out gilded turds like The Great
Race.
She knew it, and so put a lot of emotional energy into her
relationships. She was a spectacular friend, warm and supportive to
her circle, which included Guy McElwaine, Mart Crowley, Howard
Jeffrey, Asa Maynor and the late Norma Crane. What Natalie wanted in a
friend was humor, intelligence and emotional directness; to qualify,
one had to pass what Norma Crane called "the kindness test."
It's all very odd: In life, she was sharp and funny ("What killed your
father?" she was asked. "My mother, I think," she replied), but you
couldn't say she was a natural screen comedienne. It's almost as if
acting was some sort of violation of her essential nature, even as it
fed her need for drama, for notice.
Physically, Wood was the quintessential star—emotionally, too. She was
nervous and prone to short-term liaisons with inappropriate men:
Dennis Hopper, Henry Jaglom, Steve McQueen, Frank Sinatra and, most
ridiculous of them all, Ladislow Blatnik, known as "The Shoe King of
Venezuela." Then there was Jerry Brown, at the time California's
secretary of state, whose equipment Wood described as being "like a
wand."
snip
The last time Mr. Lambert saw her, she asked him if she looked her
age. She was thinking of Barbara Stanwyck, who had seemed bitter and
lonely when Wood had dinner at her house. "To stay on an even keel,"
Mr. Mankiewicz said, "Natalie needed all her cards, and she was very
afraid of losing her beauty card."
Reduced to nothing parts in theatrical movies and ostensibly meaty
parts in déclassé TV movies, Wood began planning a comeback on stage
as Anastasia.
When Christopher Walken sparked to her on the set of Brainstorm—yet
another lousy movie—it seemed like a chance for creative rebirth. He
was from New York, handsome, serious about acting, "edgy." He was also
younger. The woman who told friends that she had never cheated on
Robert Wagner was smitten; Mr. Lambert believes there was an affair.
Certainly, she was drinking during working hours and behaving in a
less-than-professional manner.
The psychodrama continued on board Wagner and Wood's yacht. Everybody
was drinking; Mr. Wagner isn't entirely clear about exactly when Wood
left the cabin, or what a woman who had always been terrified of the
water was doing trying to get into a dinghy. The last notation in
Wood's daybook reads: "This loneliness won't leave me alone." Song
lyric or ruthless self-appraisal?
Wood's vivid personality and turbulent life compel a certain amount of
attention, but the career is punctuated by dreary failure. She helps
render West Side Story unwatchable on those too-frequent occasions
when Jerome Robbins' dancers aren't snapping their fingers. And if
you're looking for proof that Jack Warner was way over the hill,
there's the otherwise inexplicable fact that he didn't shut down Gypsy
after the first week of shooting, recast every part and fire Mervyn
LeRoy.
Thanks to the ridiculously furtive Robert Redford—it's as if he were
embarrassed to be seen acting—Wood is the best thing in Inside Daisy
Clover. And yes, she's very moving in Splendor in the Grass, but Elia
Kazan could have drawn good work out of Lash La Rue. (Mr. Lambert
reveals that Kazan's first choice for Deanie was the doomed Diane
Varsi—not sexy enough; his second choice was Jane Fonda—too sexy.)
For me, the best performance Wood gave was Love with the Proper
Stranger, directed by the underrated Robert Mulligan. It's a part—nice
Italian girl gets knocked up—that requires being, not acting. Freed up
from the big emotional arias that tended to reveal her structural
flaws as an actress, Wood's natural likeability and charm came
through.
Corse
x-no-archive: yes
"Corse" <Tse...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:oDb1c.5344$LK3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
I am wondering if they are not named because they are still living.
------------
Lancaster is no longer with us. Kirk Douglas, of course, is. Who knows.
Corse
BALLYGRL1
because it gets everything from here.<<<
It's from the A-List, doesn't Billie run that site? I think Billie does, and I
believe everything she says : ).
Tina
Isn't this the same guy who was living with James Dean for a while too?
::::::Tina::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger". - Mark Twain
Tina
>I didn't read the latest book but the author who apparently knew who the
>rapist was (emphasis on apparently) claimed it was a famous actor/producer
>who was famous for his grin. That doesn't sound like Raymond Burr, it
>sounds more like maybe Clark Gable?
>
I don't know if he was a producer or not but maybe it was Lex Barker? He liked
teenage girls and supposedly raped Lana Turner's daughter when she was young
too.
Patty
"Alasdair MacColla" <terrypo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5b4b7fd.04030...@posting.google.com...
: cinef...@aol.com (Cinefan1969) wrote in message
I read the Finstad book and I've currently got the Lambert book. Another
clue in the Finstad book: was that she later turned down a role in 1958
because it meant working with this actor/producer. She had just married
Wagner and told the studios that she didn't want to leave Wagner's side
to go to England. What movies were made in England in 1958/1959?
Patty
"Tina" <lisa...@aol.comspamsuxx> wrote in message
news:20040302224812...@mb-m18.aol.com...
: Kreiland wrote:
: >I didn't read the latest book but the author who apparently knew who the
: >rapist was (emphasis on apparently) claimed it was a famous actor/producer
: >who was famous for his grin. That doesn't sound like Raymond Burr, it
: >sounds more like maybe Clark Gable?
: >
:
: I don't know if he was a producer or not but maybe it was Lex Barker? He liked
: teenage girls and supposedly raped Lana Turner's daughter when she was young
: too.
:
:
: ::::::Tina::::::
Good guess but in the book it said that this actor/producer told her that he had never
had a teenager before.
Patty
"klm" <nonos...@com.com> wrote in message news:104ajbh...@news.supernews.com...
: x-no-archive: yes
:
: "Patty" <eartha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > by Scott Eyman
: > Wood had rotten luck, some of it self-induced. While she was filming
: > the hideous Penelope, Mr. Beatty offered her the role of Bonnie in
: > Bonnie and Clyde, but she turned it down because she didn't want to be
: > separated from her psychiatrist by a long location shoot.
: Beatty's nickname for her was MA for mental anguish.
I wonder what his nickname was for Diane Keaton.
maryanne kehoe
Re: Who Raped N atalie Wood?
Group: alt.gossip.celebrities Date: Wed, Mar 3, 2004, 1:34am (EST+5)
From: Tse...@pobox.com (Corse)
AnthonyM1970
>: Beatty's nickname for her was MA for mental anguish.
>
>I wonder what his nickname was for Diane Keaton.
>: Beatty's nickname for her was MA for mental anguish.
>
>I wonder what his nickname was for Diane Keaton.
Also MA for manly attire.
Ambrose
rape is pretty well known. It's been attributed to several actors, among
them Raymond Burr who was gay and for whom tender hearted Natalie bearded
after they acted together in a film in which he plays a psychopathic mama's
boy who kidnaps her. Nut it's unlikely it was Burr was a friend. She kept
touch with him even in later years. From what I've been told the best guess
is Kirk Douglas who seems to have had a hostility toward women. Some famous
actress was asked if she had been to Kirk's dressing room. "Only until I
could get away." was her response, whereupon she lifted the sleeve to show
finger shaped bruises on her arm. There are numerous stories about women who
hated him. Why he was allowed to get away with such behavior is a mystery.
Similar to Douglas' unchallenged treatment of women, is Richard Burton
who was known to seduce women and use them in a deeply frightful way. Helen
Hayes told horror stories about being in the next dressing room to Burton
while he sexually abused Susan Strasburg. Miss Hayes said it sounded like
Susan's head was being slammed into the wall. And in early versions of the
manuscript for her biography, Bittersweet, Ms Strasburg described requiring
stitches to close a tear in her rectum which was the result of Burton
abusing her. Ms Strasburg was talked out of telling the story and later said
she did so in deference to Burton's children. But it was rumored that one of
the reasons Burton was never given the Oscar is because he had mistreated
the wives and daughters of too many powerful men. Despite having married
legendary beauty Elizabeth Taylor, Burton usually sought out ordinary
looking, or even plain looking women, whom he could use and abuse at will.
He had a particular fetish for the daughters of men he despised like Actor
Studio head Lee Strasburg, whom Burton considered a charlatan. Shakespearian
trained Burton loathed method types. Ironically Burton was quoted as
calling Strasburg a sick twisted man who ruined actors with his useless
method and used his authority to seduce women.
Whatever, the last part of Burton's opinion is true, among Strasburg's
conquests were Ellen Burstyn, and dozens of others among them Carol Baker
and Marilyn Monroe (who returned the favor by seducing Susan when she was
about 16.)
Poor Susan seems to have been sexually passed around like a bad penny.
Her promising early film career (she acts circles around Kim Novak in
Picnic) was for unclear reasons frozen in place, and then after she began
doing TV, her career was sunk by her marriage to TV star and famously bad
over-actor, one time teen idol Christopher Jones who regularly beat low
self-esteemed Susan, forced her to take psychedelic drugs which nearly cost
her her sanity, and though he was obsessively jealous and cursed her
constantly for having affairs (which she didn't) he would force her to have
sex with his friends while he stood watching and cursing her. (shades of
Jan-Michael Vincent.) To make things worse they had a child with severe
health and developmental problems whom Jones couldn't stand to be around and
after Jones dumped Strasburg for Swedish blonde sometime call girl and third
rate actress, Pia Dagemark who soon dumped Jones who disappeared into
obscurity and trivia. Most of this was left out of Strasburg's two
biographies but was included in several other books, including a WEHT book
edited by John Gilmore, one time near-moviestar and chronicler of
Hollywood's seedy underbelly.)
Christopher Jones returned to California, burned out and paranoid from
drugs. Long after the Manson-Tate murders he was still convinced they were
going to come after him. His movie money long gone, Jones was sometimes seen
around Sunset, a scraggly toothless man who made his money raising
rattlesnakes to sell to pet stores and restaurants. At one point has-been
collector, Quentin Tarantino found Jones and offered him an acting job but
the still frightened Jones turned it down, though he did pull himself
together to appear in a movie the next year. But there was no follow-up. Now
in his sixties, the last word of Jones was that he was living on welfare in
a nursing home. Payback for the sins of youth can be a real bitch.
I don't recall if Kirk Douglas won the Oscar, but I know that during one
of Burton's more likely years that there was a telephone campaign against
him by a group of people with east coast connections. Maybe it's a
coincidence. After Elizabeth won for Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolfe, for
which most experts felt that Burton should also have won, Burton was told by
someone that he would never win the award.
Back to Natalie Wood. Her life was an ongoing saga or excesses, of
mistakes, comebacks, miscues and betrayals. There has been the long standing
story that (ala) Streetcar named Desire that she came in on Robert and
someone else, another man, in flagrante delicto. It was said that this event
precipitated one of their breakups. but she seems to have been obsessed with
Wagner and was capable of deep denial.
One of the uglier versions of the story of the night of her death, was
that she had gotten drunk and became enraged after she realized that Walken
on whom she had a crush, was actually more interested in Wagner, or was
being seduced by Wagner's legendary charm. The wife of the people who worked
on the "Spendor" tried unsuccessfully to sell a book about that night but
got greedy and asked for too much money. The only thing they really had was
Natalie screaming at RJ, "I wont go through this again." I guess despite
"Bob and Carroll, Ted and Alice," a ménage a trois was not was Natalie had
in mind.
Natalie raged that she had come through the mid-fifties too-cool
Hollywood youth-orgy scene and wasn't going back there. Actually cool is
hardly the word for Natalie's wild youth which, included several notoriously
embarrassing incidents, one in which she tried to bathe in Champaign
(supposedly done in the nineteen twenties by Clara Bow or Louise Brooks)
with Dennis Hopper and gay actor Nick Adams and an actress who's name
escapes me watching. The quartet emptied numerous magnums of Dom Perignon
into a bathtub and Natalie got in ,and was oohing and aahing and pretending
to be luxuriously decadent, but moments later she began screaming. She
leaped from the tub crying that her pussy was on fire. When nothing relived
her discomfort the panicked group rushed poor Natalie to the emergency room.
All four were later called on the studio carpet and read the riot act for
risking bad publicity. For a time around the studio poor, deeply embarrassed
Natalie suffered several nicknames, among them, "the burning bush," which
must have been almost as embarrassing as appearing opposite Tab Hunter in
The Burning Hills and doing that horribly bad accent, which she would later
recreate for laughs at parties, "Let go of me you filthy gringo."
Ambrose
Roofshadow "Administering Intoxicant With Intent To Molest" Jackson
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "Roofshadow "Administering Intoxicant With Intent To Molest" Jackson"
> <Roofsha...@removespamtrap.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:nqSdne8AKba...@comcast.com...
>
>>AnthonyM1970 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Kobe Bryant
>>
>>LOL and feeling guilty about it!
>>
>
>
> Yeah right. Kobe hadn't even had his third birthday when Natalie died.
>
>
Really?
You mean that was just a joke??
Gosh I had no idea!
Billie
>I read the Finstad book and I've currently got the Lambert book. Another
>clue in the Finstad book: was that she later turned down a role in 1958
>because it meant working with this actor/producer. She had just married
>Wagner and told the studios that she didn't want to leave Wagner's side
>to go to England. What movies were made in England in 1958/1959?
>
>
I'd guess it was "The Vikings" with Kirk, and the role went to Janet Leigh.
Billie
Please submit your suggestions for 'Website of the Day' to: pusss...@aol.com
http://artwc.org/Billie/AGCWEBSITES04.html
BLIND ITEMS:
http://artwc.org/Billie/MAINPAGE.HTML
Billie
list that it is rumor and gossip. It's really a good read and source of rumor.
Ophie
gross.
I had heard stories about Robert Wagner from my parents that he played
for both teams. Didn't know that about Raymond Burr.
Why is Hollywood such a loser magnet of a town?
Helsing@alucard.com Van Helsing
On 2-Mar-2004, "Patty" <aie...@iuyc.com> wrote:
> I read the Finstad book and I've currently got the Lambert book. Another
> clue in the Finstad book: was that she later turned down a role in 1958
> because it meant working with this actor/producer. She had just married
> Wagner and told the studios that she didn't want to leave Wagner's side
> to go to England. What movies were made in England in 1958/1959?
"Sparticus?"
Helsing@alucard.com Van Helsing
On 3-Mar-2004, pusss...@aol.com (Billie ) wrote:
> I'd guess it was "The Vikings" with Kirk, and the role went to Janet
> Leigh.
>
> Billie
Darn good guess. My idea of Sparticus was wrong. It was done in '60.
AKA
Shot in Spain.
AKA
Maybe, but if the movie was to have been made in 1958/59, The Vikings was
released at the beginning of June 1958 (June 11, 1958) which means it
probably was shot in 1957 and early 1958. Natalie and Robert Wagner weren't
married until Decemeber of 1957.
kathy
>
> Similar to Douglas' unchallenged treatment of women, is Richard Burton
> who was known to seduce women and use them in a deeply frightful way.
Strasberg's descriptions of Burton's abusive behavior (and I have no
doubts whatsoever regarding the "anal tear" incident you mention).
Burton was a brilliant actor but definitely had problems IMHO with
realting to women. In Rosemary Kingsley's book, she talks about the
"affair" she had with him when she was only 14. Even when he
discovered her age, he did not stop having sex with her, which I found
extremely disturbing. I guess his mother's death at an early age
affected him in his later relationships, but maybe that was not the
only reason. Kathy C
Divine Ms. C G
> conquests were Ellen Burstyn, and dozens of others among them Carol Baker
> and Marilyn Monroe (who returned the favor by seducing Susan when she was
> about 16.)
What? Is this author saying that Marilyn Monroe was bisexual? News to
me. Has anyone else written about this?
Zeb Quinn
> is Kirk Douglas who seems to have had a hostility toward women.
That's what I heard and understood too. Being that they were both of
Russian immigrant stock, maybe he thought he had the right. But what
I find most ironic about it and about Douglas in general is that it
dovetails almost exactly with his role In Harms Way, including the
rape. What was up with that? They had to know in 1965.
Even so, Natalie was a beautiful actress. I always found her
fetching. Maybe like Marilyn, she never really had a chance.
Patty
That's been written about for years. It was rumored that she had an
affair with her drama coach Natasha Lytess.
explorer
"Patty" <aie...@iuyc.com> wrote in message
news:52d5f5adddc2179b...@news.teranews.com...
And a rapist would never lie....
Tina
>Probably WGO. Can you figure it out? haha.
>Oh but as far as Natalie Wood, her pallbearers were the following, so it was
>none of them:
>Fred Astaire, Rock Hudson, Elia Kazan, Laurence Olivier, Gregory Peck and
>Frank Sinatra.
Especially since 3 of them were rumored to be gay. Wouldn't be raping any women
at least.
Patty
"klm" <nonos...@com.com> wrote in message news:104ap1a...@news.supernews.com...
: x-no-archive: yes
:
: "Patty" <aie...@iuyc.com> wrote in message
: news:678dd810eae9b076...@news.teranews.com...
: >
: > "Alasdair MacColla" <terrypo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: >
:
: The Devil's Disciple but both Kirk and Burt were in that.
That must be the one. According to the Natalie Wood biography by Gavin Lambert,
"the Hecht-Hill-Lancaster Company requested her services on loan for 'The Devil's
Disciple.'" She would have a small role but would be in a movie with Laurence
Olivier, Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas and Eva La Gallienne. When it was decided that
the movie would be filmed entirely in England, Natalie wasn't sure that she wanted to be
separated from her husband for those months of filming. Jack Warner was informed
through her agent that the Wagners decided to stand by their prenuptial agreement
of not being separated for more than two weeks at a time.
Mary
> cinef...@aol.com (Cinefan1969) wrote in message news:<20040302012552...@mb-m16.aol.com>...
> > Her mother pimped her out to Nicholas Ray when Natalie was still a teenager to
> > ensure that she would get the role in Rebel Without a Cause.
>
> That's NOT in Suzanne Finstad's recent biography. It says that Mr.
> Ray initiated the sex with Natalie. He also initiated it with James
> Dean.
>
> Kirk Douglas is the only movie star who was alive at the time of Ms.
> Finstad's publishing deadline who fits the description of the
> anonymous star. But Kirk will never get bad press for it. When he
> dies, every journalist who ever sat through Fatal Attraction and Basic
> Instinct will celebrate Kirk as the patriarch of a dynasty. Oops,
> don't forget Traffic, which will be a classic as long as drugs are
> illegal.
Kirk Douglas also fits the description of actor-producer (he was
successful producer of Paths of Glory and Spartacus). Natalie's
mother referred to the rapist as "Mr. Showbiz." This could apply to
Douglas because he did have a time period in which he landed a huge
number of important roles for the biggest directors in Hollywood.
There had to have been something about how he carried on in his
personal life that prevented him from winning the Best Actor award, as
his talent alone certainly earned him the right to one or two such
Oscars. I'll bet that more than one biographer is out there right
now, working on tell-all accounts of Douglas' life. I get the feeling
that all the dirt that's been concealed about Kirk over the decades
will be quite extensive.
Ambrose
> Even so, Natalie was a beautiful actress. I always found her
> fetching. Maybe like Marilyn, she never really had a chance.
Totally agree. I had a crush on Natalie since I saw her in Marjorie
Morningstar when I was six or seven and then a few years later in Splendor
in the Grass. I've seen SITG maybe ten times and don't think I've ever seen
a more painfully personal performance. The scene where Natalie is trying to
lure Bud(Beatty) into the car to have sex with her has to be the most real
evocation of desperately vulnerable desire ever put to film. (Hey I know I'm
always something or other is the best ever put on film), but in that scene
outside in the night at that party Natalie evokes a wrenching sense of truth
which Kim Novak could have only fantasized about achieving in the famous
dance scene in Picnic, which is the best acting of Novak's career.
One only can wonder what Natalie might have achieved if she hadn't
wasted so much time and energy on bad films and sad relationships. For
instance, imagine her in Bonnie and Clyde, which Beatty offered or say
Klute.
My favorite imaginary role for Natalie would have for to have her play
Lara in Dr. Zhivago. Hell, at least we would have gotten an authentic
Russian vocal quality and a poetic sexual intensity that would have made us
(or at least me) believe Zhivago would throw his life away out of love for
her, instead of Julie Christie's incessant deep breathing which for some
reason passed as sexual desire in the mid sixties much like Jessica Lange's
annoying, low breathy moans did later in the eighties
On the lighter side imagine Natalie in the Katherine Ross role in Butch
Cassidy and The Sundance Kid. We already know Natalie had great chemistry
with Robert Redford. At least she would have sparkled with repressed
sexuality, which poor wooden Katherine Ross couldn't manage if she was
attached to jumper cables. Ah, to dream.
But Natalie's having been in the best troubled youth film ever made, and
having one of the greatest romantic kisses in film history (when she and
James Dean first kiss) will suffice for those of us fans who still love her.
Ambrose