It seems like Stan Lee didn't think up the idea for Spiderman

[Chris Tsao]

Joe Simon came up with a super hero charactor the Silver Spider who
could shoot webs out of his wrists, which was then changed to the Fly.
I read the autobiography Joe Simon My Life in Comics, it mentioned
that Stan Lee read the scripts and Joe Simon's sentences sounded like
they were left unfinished maybe because he was leaving out that Stan
Lee got the idea from him. There's no index in the book and so I can't
find the places he wrote about how he got the idea for the Spiderman
charactor.

In an ad for another book he wrote _JOE SIMON COMIC BOOK MAKERS_ it
says "his untold origin of Spider Man from 1953." I sent away for it,
it won't arrive till Monday, I'll type up any incrimidating info. I
sent away for Stan Lee's autobiography, it should be here on Friday, I
will type up anything he says regarding how he came up with the idea
for Spiderman.

From posts I read in a rec.arts.movies.past-films Kirk Cameron didn't
think up the idea for Avatar.

He took three Outer Limits episodes and melded them together for The
Terminator.

[Chris Tsao]

page 207 _Joe Simon My Life in Comics_

it's too much trouble to type up, it's long er than I thought.

[Chris Tsao]

> it's too much trouble to type up, it's long er than I thought.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Joe Simon My Life in Comics

p. 207

Kirby convinced Stan to get Martin to hold off while he brought in
some new ideas for characters. Then he went home, and brought back the
C.C. Beck pages for the "The Silver Spider," along with the logo I had
originally drawn up. It's been rumored that Jack drew up some pages of
his own, but that Stan decided to turn the idea over to Steve Ditko.
When Ditko looked at the Beck pages, he said,"This is Joe Simon's 'The
Fly.'"

p. 208

Years later Will Eisner interviewed Kirby (as part of a series of
audio interviews, published as _Will Eisner's Shop Talk_ and asked
where Spider-Man had come from. Jack gave this answer:


It was the last thing Joe and I had discussed..."The Silver Spider"
was going into a magazine called _Black Magic_. _Black Magic_ folded
with Crestwood and we were left with the script. I believe I said this
could become a thing called Spider- Man, see, a superhero character.

[Spaceman Spliff]

Of course Kirk Cameron didnt come up with the idea for Avatar,
everyone knows it was Alan Thicke.

[Chris Tsao]

On Sep 23, 8:04 pm, Spaceman Spliff <w...@out.there> wrote:

> everyone knows it was Alan Thicke.

Someone told me in rec.arts.moviespast-films last January that James
Cameron is thought to have taken the idea from other writers.

If you're talking about "Call Me Joe" by Poul Anderson, the
similarities were indeed noted when AVATAR came out.

Check out this link which mentions that one and, in the comments, a
couple of other sci-fi novels from the '50s that might have given
Cameron more of his ideas for AVATAR.

http://smellslikescreenspirit.com/2009/10/james-camerons-avatar-inspired-influenced-or-plagiarized/

---------------------------------

Here's another link. The previous one doesn't seem to be working.

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2009/10/james-cameron-stole-avatar-question-mark

Here's the text, if the link doesn't work:


"A reader over on Io9 recently brought up some striking similarities
between James Cameron’s upcoming Avatar and a 1957 short story called
Call Me Joe, written by Poul Anderson and included in The Science
Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume Two.


Like Avatar, Call Me Joe centers on a paraplegic — Ed Anglesey — who
telepathically connects with an artificially created life form in
order to explore a harsh planet (in this case, Jupiter). Anglesey,
like Avatar’s Jake Sully, revels in the freedom and strength of his
artificial created body, battles predators on the surface of Jupiter,
and gradually goes native as he spends more time connected to his
artificial body.


Should the similarities between Avatar and Call Me Joe cause problems
for Cameron, it wouldn’t be the first time. After The Terminator
came
out, writer Harlan Ellison sued the production company for
plagiarizing two episodes he wrote for The Outer Limits. Even though
Cameron took Ellison’s ideas in a very different and novel direction,
the company settled with Ellison, who is now acknowledged in the
film’s credits.


Call me Joe sounds pretty similar to the Avatar plot, and if the
cover
art means anything, in both the aliens are blue cat people (though in
Call Me Joe’s case they’re way-more-awesome centaurs). Poul Anderson
also wrote a 1978 novel called The Avatar, which says… uh… something.
But even if Cameron did steal it, at least give him credit for
finding
something people had forgotten while everyone else in Hollywood is
busy ripping off 300 and Shaun of the Dead. And for being able to
read."


The two "Outer Limits" episodes are: "Soldier" and "Demon with a
Glass
Hand."

[Chris Tsao]

On Sep 23, 9:51 pm, Chris Tsao <rigida7...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 23, 8:04 pm, Spaceman Spliff <w...@out.there> wrote:
>
> > everyone knows it was Alan Thicke.
>
> Someone told me in rec.arts.moviespast-films last January that James
> Cameron is thought to have taken the idea from other writers.

I was too lazy to write that the below are two posts he wrote to me
that I am copying and pasting :

[Chris Tsao]

On Sep 22, 1:49 am, Chris Tsao <rigida7...@aol.com> wrote:

I'm reading Will Eisner's biography, it says Al Capp stole some Li'l
Abner charectors (sp.) from the guy who drew the Uncle Sam Wants You
poster. Will Eisner it seems took credit for a charector (sp.?) called
Black Hawk.

In the Will Eisner book, it quotes a comic book artist as saying,
"There is no universally accepted definition of the word _creator_ in
comics, and there are arguable claims, especially in cases where guys
were working in a shop arrangement."

[Chris Tsao]

> were working in a shop arrangement."- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

When I clicked on Google just now there are these monsters for Jim
Henson's 75 birthday and one has a trunk which reminds me of a cartoon
character my father created that someone stole. According to my
parents, when I was in the low single digits, I used to pretend there
was a monster living in the attic and I gave it a name. Then when I
was about seven or eight I was sitting on the floor playing with these
little rubber toy monsters and my fathers asks me if he could borrow
them. Then he created these cartoon characters based on the toys. So
he named one the name of the monster I used to pretend lived in the
attic. About a year and a half ago, I saw a video of some woman on the
YouTubes saying that she created the charactor based on her cat. This
is not possible, I vaguely remember that one of the toy monsters I
played with had a trunk. Plus my father named all of the charactors
with similar names like the one I thought up, that must mean that he
got the idea from me. Then, I researched the woman on the internets
and I saw that she lied and said that she drew this group drawing of
all of the monsters together that my father drew. So I e-mailed the
link to my father and he responded by saying that she traced over it
and that she was known for having taken credit for other people's
work. So that means she's been doing this for forty years or so. I
think she just created one character--the only female charactor. She
probably just named it and my father probably created what it looks
like. Then, they made toys out of them in rubber and plastic just like
the ones I used to play with.

[Chris Tsao]

>Then, they made toys out of them in rubber and plastic just like
> the ones I used to play with.

I was too lazy to concentrate when I was wording my sentence, so I
deluded myself that I was wording what I was meant to convey. I meant
to say that the monsters were the exact same size of the ones I used
to play with.

[Alan Smithee]

Chris Tsao wrote:
> On Sep 22, 1:49 am, Chris Tsao <rigida7...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Joe Simon came up with a super hero charactor the Silver Spider who
>> could shoot webs out of his wrists, which was then changed to the Fly.
>> I read the autobiography Joe Simon My Life in Comics, it mentioned
>> that Stan Lee read the scripts and Joe Simon's sentences sounded like
>> they were left unfinished maybe because he was leaving out that Stan
>> Lee got the idea from him. There's no index in the book and so I can't

>> find the places he wrote about how he got the idea for the Spider-Man
>> character.

> In the Will Eisner book, it quotes a comic book artist as saying,
> "There is no universally accepted definition of the word _creator_ in
> comics, and there are arguable claims, especially in cases where guys
> were working in a shop arrangement."

And didn't Jerry Robinson invent "The Batman"? Despite Kane taking credit.

[Chris Tsao]

> And didn't Jerry Robinson invent "The Batman"? Despite Kane taking credit.

I'll send away for their biographies if they have one, and then post
what I find.

[Chris Tsao]

On Sep 24, 10:49 pm, Chris Tsao <rigida7...@aol.com> wrote:

> I'll send away for their biographies if they have one, and then post
> what I find.

I just sent away for "Jerry Robinson: Ambassador of Comics." I shall
report back if there any discrepencies (sp.?).

[Chris Tsao]

From the biographies I've been reading, I have learned that Jews went
into the comic book business because people wouldn't hire them as
artists at advertising agencies and as illustrators. The two people
who wrote Superman were Jewish, but that was just a coincidence. They
sent their scripts out to publishers in the mail.

[Chris Tsao]

I downloaded a book into a Kindle of mine called From Krakow to
Krypton: Jews and Comic Books and it says that Stan Lee co-created
Spider-Man.

[Chris Tsao]

I typed up the below from Stan Lee's Biography that he co-wrote:

I confessed that I had gotten the idea from watching a fly on the wall
while I had been typing. (I can't remember if that was literally true
or not, but I thought it would lend a little color to my pitch.)
(page 126)

I also mentioned that our hero, whom I wanted to call Spider-Man,
would be a teenager, with all the ...

I was surprised to learn, years later, that even Jack Kirby also
claimed a piece of the action, saying he had done a Spider-Man comic
years ago and that I had copied it. If it really existed, I've never
seen it and no one's ever shown it to me, and to this day, I don't
know what he was talking about. (p. 129)

I later learned that C.C. Beck and Joe Simon (Jack's ex-partner) had
earlier worked on a character they called the Silver Spider, but
it was an entirely different concept and the only similarity was the
word spider.

[Chris Tsao]

It still hasn't arrived, but he was the one who created the Joker, not
Batman. The guy who created Bat-Man used to lie and claim that he
created the Joker. After the book arrives, I will type up text about
it and copy and paste other info about it from Arie Kaplan. From
Krakow to Krypton: Jews and Comic Books that's in my Kindle.

[Chris Tsao]

Could it be that Larry David guy the idea for a very young gay boy in
the single digits from I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry?

[Chris Tsao]

> From the biographies I've been reading, I have learned that Jews went
> into the comic book business because people wouldn't hire them as
> artists at advertising agencies and as illustrators. The two people
> who wrote Superman were Jewish, but that was just a coincidence. They
> sent their scripts out to publishers in the mail.

because of the anti-Semitism of the early 20th century, Jews were
forced to more or less create the movie business, just as they founded
the comic-book industry: "The Jews founded Hollywood because they
weren't allowed any place else. They had to create their own business,
their own industry, so they went out and created Hollywood. That's
factual! Go look at everyone who started the motion picture companies
and it's Jewish businessmen, and they did it because they were all
basically forced out, there was no other place for them to go into
business so they had to create one.

Arie Kaplan. From Krakow to Krypton: Jews and Comic Books (p. 185).
Kindle Edition.

[Chris Tsao]

On Sep 22, 1:49 am, Chris Tsao <rigida7...@aol.com> wrote:

> In an ad for another book he wrote _JOE SIMON COMIC BOOK MAKERS_ it
> says "his untold origin of Spider Man from 1953." I sent away for it,
> it won't arrive till Monday, I'll type up any incrimidating info.

Very very incrimidating evidence against Stan Lee in this book.
There's a lot, I'm not finished reading it. Over the next day or
three, I will type the incrimidating info into my hard drive so I can
do it little by little and then copy and paste it into this thread.

[Chris Tsao]

Also, Joe Simon showed the pages around to some people in the early
1950s.

_THE COMIC BOOK MAKERS_

I worked up a few ideas to discuss with Oleck. So many titles had come
and gone by that time that it seemed futile to come up with a concept
even remotely unique. After a lot of doodling, I settled on one that
looked a little betters than the others. I roughed up a logo,
SPIDERMAN, then did the finished lettering. p. 173

There is a troublesome boy named Tommy Troy, living in an
orphanage ,who is expelled into the custody of a weird elderly couple.
p. 173

The next day, at the Archie office, I made a verbal pitch to John
Goldwater. "A super-hero who climbs straight up and down a building
using a fine thread that he holsters in his costume like a fishing
tackle. ..." p. 176

Lee called Kirby in and asked him if he had any comic characters lying
around that hadn't been used. p. 184

As I learned years later, Jack brought in the SPIDER-MAN logo that I
had loaned to him before we changed the name to the Silver Spider.
Kirby laid out the story to Lee about the kid who finds a ring in a
spider web, gets his powers from the ring and goes forth to fight
crime armed with the Silver Spider's old web--spinning
pistol. p. 184

Stan Lee said, "Perfect, just what I want." p. 184

[Chris Tsao]

I read it and Jerry Robinson didn't mention one single word about the
idea having been taken from him.

[Chris Tsao]

> I read it and Jerry Robinson didn't mention one single word about the
>
> idea having been taken from him.

About twenty minutes ago, I also came across this book below on Bill Finger who they say co-created Batman. I put it in my Shopping Cart on amazon.com. I'm about to hit Proceed to Checkout. I will post any interesting info on the matter if there is any. I've had Bob Kane's autobiography for almost a year. I haven't read it yet, but from what I've read online about it, is that he didn't credit Bill Finger for having helped with Batman (for example: That material was written by Bill Finger, but Kane kept his scripter's contributions quiet for as long as he could.)

Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman [Hardcover] Marc Tyler Nobleman Marc

[Chris Tsao]

It says in the book Book Description "Bill helped invent Batman, from concept to costume to character."


Book Description
Publication Date: July 2012
Every Batman story is marked with the words “Batman created by Bob Kane.” But that isn’t the whole truth. A struggling writer named Bill Finger was involved from the beginning. Bill helped invent Batman, from concept to costume to character. He dreamed up Batman’s haunting origins and his colorful nemeses. He named Gotham. Despite his brilliance, Bill worked in obscurity, his name never appearing on a Batman comic. It was only after his death that fans went to bat for Bill, calling for DC to acknowledge him as co-creator of Batman. Their fight for justice continues to this day.

[Chris Tsao]

There's a book coming out on the 9th of this month called Marvel Comics: The Untold Story and the book descriptions says that it covers matters of credit and control. I will download the book onto my kindle the day it comes out and report back any info that I may not have covered in this thread. Also what's curious is that at the exact same time this book was advertised on amazon.com by a fantastic coincidence another book called The Secret History of Marvel Comics was advertksed. (I would venture to say that each author is pissed.) It was supposed to be released on August 28, 2012 and I pre=ordered it in June and they've since changed the release date to December something.

PS. Does amazon.com program their computers so that if they mention on their site that you can download a book onto your kindle on a specif day that the very instant that the clock strikes midnight making it the release date that the book will download onto your kindle?

[Chris Tsao]

On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:26:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Tsao wrote:

> There's a book coming out on the 9th of this month called Marvel Comics: The Untold Story

I meant the 11th. I got confused because I counted 9 more days until they will send it out.

[Chris Tsao]

I got the book today. It turns out it's like a children's book. It is only about forty pages and on each page is a drawing with only a few little words. I.e, a little paragraph or a sentence. Some of the pages just have drawings without any words.

[Chris Tsao]

> I got the book today.

What I found out.

Bill Finger changed Batman's outfit that Bob Kane came up with from red to black, he changed the mask that looked like glasses to a cowl that covered all but Batman's chin and put ears like a bat on it. Bill Finger wrote most of the Batman stories. Bob Kane insisted that artists who drew Batman comics work annonymously (sp.). (Jerry Robinson was one of the artists and he didn't mention this in his autobiography.)

Author's Note

In his 1989 autobiography, _Batman & Me_, Bob included a sketch of a Batman-like figure conspicuously dated 1934--five years before Bob went to Bill for brainstorming. Bob said that, in 1939, he'd "remembered" the sketch. He seemed to want to prove he'd come up with the general look--perhaps particularly the distinctive mask--before Bill. Yet in the same book, he credited Bill with originating Batman's design, bat cowl and all.


I'm reading this other book now Words of Wonder The Life and Times of Otto Binder and it talks about how someone named Bill Parker invented Captain Marvel, but I vaguely remember that in at least two of Joe Simon's books that he wrote about how he was the one who thought up Captain Marvel and that it was his idea to make him a child.

[Chris Tsao]

> PS. Does amazon.com program their computers so that if they mention on their site that you can download a book onto your kindle on a specif day that the very instant that the clock strikes midnight making it the release date that the book will download onto your kindle?

The book--according to amazon.com--will be released on the 9th, so since tomorrow is the 8th, I will buy it at 11:59 pm and if it doesn't load into my Kindle, I'll try again at midnight and report back what happens.

[Chris Tsao]

THis is a huge coincidence because BOTH books are about Marvel before they sold comic books--they sold pulp magazines.

[Chris Tsao]

On Sunday, October 7, 2012 4:07:46 PM UTC-4, Chris Tsao wrote:
> > PS. Does amazon.com program their computers so that if they mention on their site that you can download a book onto your kindle on a specif day that the very instant that the clock strikes midnight making it the release date that the book will download onto your kindle?
>
>
>
> The book--according to amazon.com--will be released on the 9th, so since tomorrow is the 8th, I will buy it at 11:59 pm and if it doesn't load into my Kindle, I'll try again at midnight and report back what happens.

I order the book last night (the 8th) at 9:47 and then for ten seconds, my computer froze and then at 9:48 it unfroze. I got a message that said Thanks, Christopher! Thank you for your purchase. This book will be auto-delivered wirelessly to your Kindle on October 9, 2012. It didn''t download into my computer for about a half an hour. I forhot where I wrote the password to go online with my Kindle so I couldn't check to see if it downloaded in the Kindle, then I got a confirmation e-mail from amazon.com came at 12:32 and I checked my computer and the book was in my computer, I found my password and went online with my kindle and the book immediately downloaded, so the answer is that it takes an extra half hour from the time amazon.com promises you that the book wwill be released for it to be released. RIght after I bought it, I checked "View Your Digital Orders' and I kept on checking for about ten minutes and there were no digital orders.

[Chris Tsao]

> in at least two of Joe Simon's books that he wrote about how he was the one who thought up Captain Marvel and that it was his idea to make him a child.

I was too lazy to exert the mental energy that it takes to finish this thought. I meant to say that in one of the books I read that it said that Spider-Man was a boy and that a boy being a superhero was a concept thought up by Joe SImon, so this is extra proof that he was the one who came up with the idea of a Spider-Man character AND the origins of Captain Marvel.

[Chris Tsao]

>
> I was too lazy to exert the mental energy that it takes to finish this thought. I meant to say that in one of the books I read that it said that Spider-Man was a boy and that a boy being a superhero was a concept thought up by Joe SImon, so this is extra proof that he was the one who came up with the idea of a Spider-Man character AND the origins of Captain Marvel.

I was too lazy to exert the mental energy that it takes to word this properly, I meant to say that either Joe Simon claimed or the author of one of the bookks I read claimed that this is extra proof that he was the creator of Spider Man.

[Chris Tsao]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:39:54 AM UTC-4, Chris Tsao wrote:
> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 4:07:46 PM UTC-4, Chris Tsao wrote:
>
> > > PS. Does amazon.com program their computers so that if they mention on their site that you can download a book onto your kindle on a specif day that the very instant that the clock strikes midnight making it the release date that the book will download onto your kindle?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The book--according to amazon.com--will be released on the 9th, so since tomorrow is the 8th, I will buy it at 11:59 pm and if it doesn't load into my Kindle, I'll try again at midnight and report back what happens.
>
>
>
> I order the book last night (the 8th) at 9:47 and then for ten seconds, my computer froze and then at 9:48 it unfroze.

I meant 11:47, with the logic that since it's almost the 9th, that maybe they will release a book a few minutes early.

[Chris Tsao]

> I meant 11:47, with the logic that since it's almost the 9th, that maybe they will release a book a few minutes early.

Because amazon.com sends out books in the mail the day before the books they say on their web site "title will be released on."

[Chris Tsao]

On Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:49:23 AM UTC-4, Chris Tsao wrote:
> Joe Simon came up with a super hero charactor the Silver Spider who
>
> could shoot webs out of his wrists, which was then changed to the Fly.
>
> I read the autobiography Joe Simon My Life in Comics, it mentioned
>
> that Stan Lee read the scripts and Joe Simon's sentences sounded like
>
> they were left unfinished maybe because he was leaving out that Stan
>
> Lee got the idea from him. There's no index in the book and so I can't
>
> find the places he wrote about how he got the idea for the Spiderman
>
> charactor.
>
>
>
> In an ad for another book he wrote _JOE SIMON COMIC BOOK MAKERS_ it
>
> says "his untold origin of Spider Man from 1953." I sent away for it,
>
> it won't arrive till Monday, I'll type up any incrimidating info. I
>
> sent away for Stan Lee's autobiography, it should be here on Friday, I
>
> will type up anything he says regarding how he came up with the idea
>
> for Spiderman.
>
>
>
> From posts I read in a rec.arts.movies.past-films Kirk Cameron didn't
>
> think up the idea for Avatar.
>
>
>
> He took three Outer Limits episodes and melded them together for The
>
> Terminator.

But the wording of the open letter that Lee sent out in August 1999 was a stumbling block. “I have always considered Steve Ditko to be Spider-Man's co-creator,” it read, and Ditko quickly pointed out that “ 'Considered' means to ponder, look at closely, examine, etc. and does not admit, or claim, or state that Steve Ditko is Spider-Man's co-creator.”

Howe, Sean (2012-10-09). Marvel Comics: The Untold Story (p. 401). Harper. Kindle Edition.