MS making out big with Kinect
The alMIGHTY N
costs of marketing and relationships with retail, that's a HUGE profit
on each device sold. Good for them - make that money while people are
still interested...
Tom
I just read in the first week Kinect hit the shelves, it sold nearly
500K units; that's not too shabby considering the Move did only 200k.
But the Move really took off after that and I think the recent huge
pickup in PS3 sales may have to do with that as well.. I can happily say
that I am not one of those who made or will make the purchase of the Kinect.
I also read that Black Ops sold 5m its first day and has sold over 7m
worldwide as of today on both consoles smashing MW2's record. Activision
has to be pouring loads of champagne about now.
RickMerrill
3x cost is a normal pricing markup to cover marketing, advertizing, transportation, etc.
sweet.lou...@gmail.com
And Pachter was right on the money when he said, several months ago,
it would cost around "50 bucks to make". However, he was slightly off
with the pricing.
Eman
purchases so far are Christmas gifts for the people that have
everything. Has there been any breakdown of bundle purchases versus
standalone unit purchases?
-= timm3r =-
"Eman" <supreme.ev...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a0ca59e-d05f-423b...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>I want to know who's buying these things.
My supervisor bought one and a new slimline last weekend on an impulse buy
for his 4 year old. He's not remotely a gamer and is only a part time dad
but he said his boy jumped right in like he had done it before.
Tom
Well, if you buy a Slim and the kinect separate, it will cost you $349,
and that is with the 4GB internal memory Slim, not the 250gb HDD Slim.
There's a bundle for $399 that includes the 250gig Slim and a Kinect
with the Kinect Adventures.
RickMerrill
You can get the 4GB bundle with Kinect for $299 as I did.
Eman
wrote:
>
> You can get the 4GB bundle with Kinect for $299 as I did.
Just curious, do you have kids? How old are they? Actually my wife
saw the Best Buy commercial and thought that Dance Central looked
fun. I cringed. She's always been a platform/puzzle gamer and when
we tried Wii for the first time, she just had to have one. I waited
and it passed. When I told her the price for Kinect she was turned
off. I would buy one for my kids if they really really wanted it, but
they're too young and my 17 year old nephew that lives with me hasn't
even mentioned it.
sweet.lou...@gmail.com
> On Nov 14, 9:03 am, RickMerrill <rick0.merr...@gmail.com.lessspam>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > You can get the 4GB bundle with Kinect for $299 as I did.
>
> Just curious, do you have kids? How old are they? Actually my wife
> saw the Best Buy commercial and thought that Dance Central looked
> fun. I cringed.
If you like dancing, it sure beats jumping up and down on a silly-
looking mat.
Eman
<sweet.lou.ferri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you like dancing, it sure beats jumping up and down on a silly-
> looking mat.
I like dancing. But not fond of dancing games. Either whack music or
whack dance moves. From what I've seen of the commercial, Dance
Central is both. I'm boycotting all rhythm games. By now they should
be allowing you to use your own mp3s OR select releases should come
with the tracks for Rock Band or GH also. Or atleast at a discount.
RickMerrill
I have grandkids 10,8,7 (and more) who just LOVE the Adventures games
as do I and their auntie.
The two-player river-rafting game is everybody's favorite. I suspect
that the Sports games will also be fun.
RPH
> On 11/12/2010 12:51 PM, The alMIGHTY N wrote:
>
> > Each Kinect device only costs $56 to make so even if you factor in
> > costs of marketing and relationships with retail, that's a HUGE profit
> > on each device sold. Good for them - make that money while people are
> > still interested...
>
> >http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1133932p1.html
>
> I just read in the first week Kinect hit the shelves, it sold nearly
> 500K units; that's not too shabby considering the Move did only 200k.
Looks like it sold over a million.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1134363p1.html
Tom
That's good news for MS and I hope the Kinect does do well. Not because
I like the system, I won't buy it. But because I need MS to make money
so they can get some games happening on the 360. They need to buy a few
more developers as they are lacking in that area these days.
Eman
wrote:
>
> I have grandkids 10,8,7 (and more) who just LOVE the Adventures games
> as do I and their auntie.
>
> The two-player river-rafting game is everybody's favorite. I suspect
> that the Sports games will also be fun.
Thanks for the feedback. I think for a certain demographic, Kinect
will probably be more fun than the Wii. This is probably where MS is
finding it's niche. Wii and Move are intuitive, but you can't get
more intuitive than Kinect, (well maybe a holodeck). I would buy one
too if I had kids between 5 and 12.
RPH
The X360 has more exclusives and more game rated 70% (and higher) than
the PS3. I think they are doing just fine.
GMAN
>> >> On 11/12/2010 12:51 PM, The alMIGHTY N wrote:
>>
>> >>> Each Kinect device only costs $56 to make so even if you factor in
>t
>> >>> on each device sold. Good for them - make that money while people are
>> >>> still interested...
>>
>> >>>http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1133932p1.html
>>
>> >> I just read in the first week Kinect hit the shelves, it sold nearly
>> >> 500K units; that's not too shabby considering the Move did only 200k.
>>
>> > Looks like it sold over a million.
>> >http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1134363p1.html
>>
>> That's good news for MS and I hope the Kinect does do well. Not because
>> I like the system, I won't buy it. But because I need MS to make money
>> so they can get some games happening on the 360. They need to buy a few
>> more developers as they are lacking in that area these days.
>
>The X360 has more exclusives and more game rated 70% (and higher) than
>the PS3. I think they are doing just fine.
2007 much?
Tom
What does that have to do with the Kinect sales, considering there are
only (IIRC) 5 games for the Kinect????
Using percentages in the context you use them isn't a very effective
means of getting a true idea of the quality of games, especially when
you have to use online data. But since you went there, if you do an
average, which is a more effective means, the PS3 games average higher
on scoring than the 360 games do; that has been the norm the past two
years. As far as the amount of exclsusives, it is so close as to not
even mention. Considering that the 360 has a sizable numerical
advantage in how many total game titles it has over the PS3 altogether,
the fact that it only has a very small lead in exclusives is pretty
silly to even include your this as some win for the 360.
RPH
> On 11/16/2010 11:24 AM, RPH wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 8:03 am, Tom<no...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >> On 11/16/2010 7:59 AM, RPH wrote:
>
> >>> On Nov 12, 1:17 pm, Tom<no...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 11/12/2010 12:51 PM, The alMIGHTY N wrote:
>
> >>>>> Each Kinect device only costs $56 to make so even if you factor in
> >>>>> costs of marketing and relationships with retail, that's a HUGE profit
> >>>>> on each device sold. Good for them - make that money while people are
> >>>>> still interested...
>
> >>>>>http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1133932p1.html
>
> >>>> I just read in the first week Kinect hit the shelves, it sold nearly
> >>>> 500K units; that's not too shabby considering the Move did only 200k.
>
> >>> Looks like it sold over a million.
> >>>http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1134363p1.html
>
> >> That's good news for MS and I hope the Kinect does do well. Not because
> >> I like the system, I won't buy it. But because I need MS to make money
> >> so they can get some games happening on the 360. They need to buy a few
> >> more developers as they are lacking in that area these days.
>
> > The X360 has more exclusives and more game rated 70% (and higher) than
> > the PS3. I think they are doing just fine.
>
> What does that have to do with the Kinect sales, considering there are
> only (IIRC) 5 games for the Kinect????
You said "MS needs to make money so they can get some games happening
on the 360." I just showed you why your statement was wrong.
RickMerrill
> On 11/16/2010 11:24 AM, RPH wrote:
>> On Nov 16, 8:03 am, Tom<no...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/16/2010 7:59 AM, RPH wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 1:17 pm, Tom<no...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/2010 12:51 PM, The alMIGHTY N wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Each Kinect device only costs $56 to make so even if you factor in
>>>>>> costs of marketing and relationships with retail, that's a HUGE
>>>>>> profit
>>>>>> on each device sold. Good for them - make that money while people are
>>>>>> still interested...
>>>
>>>>>> http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1133932p1.html
>>>
>>>>> I just read in the first week Kinect hit the shelves, it sold nearly
>>>>> 500K units; that's not too shabby considering the Move did only 200k.
>>>
>>>> Looks like it sold over a million.
>>>> http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1134363p1.html
>>>
>>> That's good news for MS and I hope the Kinect does do well. Not because
>>> I like the system, I won't buy it. But because I need MS to make money
>>> so they can get some games happening on the 360. They need to buy a few
>>> more developers as they are lacking in that area these days.
>>
>> The X360 has more exclusives and more game rated 70% (and higher) than
>> the PS3. I think they are doing just fine.
>
> What does that have to do with the Kinect sales, considering there are
> only (IIRC) 5 games for the Kinect????
Those are the announced stand alone games, but "Harry Potter" looks like
it is to be released in December.
How to count the on-line games?
The alMIGHTY N
The problem Tom et al are talking about is that in recent times - say
the past couple of years - the 360's exclusives have dwindled while
the PS3's exclusives have increased. I used to make the argument that
from a new consumer's perspective, it didn't matter how old the
exclusives were, but it's tough to say that today since most of those
older exclusives are no longer available at retail.
The alMIGHTY N
wrote:
Normal for what? Very few items in the video game industry are priced
at 3x their cost. In fact, most items are priced pretty damn close to
cost and consoles by everyone except Nintendo are priced lower than
cost when they first hit the market.
Texan_2112
R&D funding. Fifty-six dollars worth of hardware does not make an
entertainment device.
Tom
If what MS has stated is true in actual sales of the Kinect to date
(nearly 1.4m), it is already well under way to making a profit. Why
couldn't $56 make a piece of hardware an entertainment device as that is
subjective as a meaning to the person using the device? If I buy a nice
little radio for $50 so I can listen to musical entertainment, is it not
an entertainment device as well?
Also, keep in mind that the Kinect is not some complex machine requiring
many different pieces of hardware to make it function, like a PC or even
a console. It is a simple set of electronics, working with two cheap
cameras that translate the input images with software. The 360
ultimately processes most of that through its system.
As far as cost of development, MS didn't foot all of it into it as much
as marketing, since the they bought (or is paying a fee to use) the
technology from a foriegn customer a few years back. I am sure they just
created the software to work with the games. It doesn't seem that costly
to develop games for camera eye motion sensors.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly--56--teardown-finds-
http://www.cultofmac.com/how-apple-almost-got-microsofts-kinect-game-controller/67951
kool-aid
"The alMIGHTY N" <natl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d6d1d2db-0fc2-41e3...@p1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Why shouldn't Microsoft make a profit off Kinect, considering the amount of
money that they lost on the orig Xbox, and Xbox 360? $150 on the Kinect
seems to be priced reasonable considering what you would pay for the move,
or Nintendo's motion controller with noon chuck.
Kool-Aid
Texan_2112
years of software development on Microsoft's part to properly exploit that
chipset and api. I can't believe you are minimizing Microsoft's involvement
here.
By the way, the most the Linux community has been able to do
programmatically with this device is tilt the head back and forth. Shouldn't
they have already hacked the metaphysical barrier by now, seein' as how all
the work has already been done by the Israelis?
RickMerrill
> Microsoft bought a chipset and an api. Everything else came out of
> multiple years of software development on Microsoft's part to properly
> exploit that chipset and api. I can't believe you are minimizing
> Microsoft's involvement here.
>
Microsoft released open source code and incentives for people to use Kinect from a
computer.
> By the way, the most the Linux community has been able to do
> programmatically with this device is tilt the head back and forth.
> Shouldn't they have already hacked the metaphysical barrier by now,
> seein' as how all the work has already been done by the Israelis?
>
"metaphysical barrier" - say what?
Texan_2112
news:ice4rp$phm$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
You know, exploiting facial micro expressions for ESP, lie detection,
advanced 'smart' biometrics, that kinda stuff. At least the wiimote makes a
cool interactive whiteboard. Sorry, been listening to that black helicopter
guy on the radio at night too much, suppose.
My point is that Microsoft did indeed purchase the tech, but they also
delivered a tremendous amount of additional value to that tech via research
R&D primarily, and the development and testing of the Kinect library. This
will determine the ultimate manner in which this technology will become
available to the public; as a Hit, or as just more infrastructure. So far it
appears to be a hit. Good for them. I wish their cost was 56 bucks a unit.
RickMerrill
When you "wave" to get the Kinect attention, it shows a video with the contact points
enhanced: hands, face and feet. Although the device can recognize your face, I doubt
it can read your expression, much less eye-motion.
Of course the CIA may upgrade your equipment so they can watch YOUR every movement;-)
Tom
> Microsoft bought a chipset and an api. Everything else came out of
> multiple years of software development on Microsoft's part to properly
> exploit that chipset and api. I can't believe you are minimizing
> Microsoft's involvement here.
Little emotional over MS are you?? I am not minimizing anything, rather
you're overstating MS' R&D expenditure with your previous comment. It
was all but known that this system was developed by another company. MS
is hardly innovative in anything, let alone ever having been innovative.
>
> By the way, the most the Linux community has been able to do
> programmatically with this device is tilt the head back and forth.
> Shouldn't they have already hacked the metaphysical barrier by now,
> seein' as how all the work has already been done by the Israelis?
>
HUH?
The alMIGHTY N
Software development cost is inherently implied in the overall cost of
producing a game. I can't speak for anyone else, but when I talked
about the cost of an individual unit of a game, I wasn't referring to
just the materials.
The same goes for R&D funding with the accessories. It's a little
different with those articles where they break down the cost of the
individual components in a console as those comparisons are speaking
only to the materials costs. They don't account for R&D or even supply
chain costs, marketing costs, labor, etc.
The alMIGHTY N
> On 11/20/2010 9:21 PM, Texan_2112 wrote:
>
> > No one has mentioned the software development cost or the recovery of
> > any R&D funding. Fifty-six dollars worth of hardware does not make an
> > entertainment device.
>
> If what MS has stated is true in actual sales of the Kinect to date
> (nearly 1.4m), it is already well under way to making a profit. Why
> couldn't $56 make a piece of hardware an entertainment device as that is
> subjective as a meaning to the person using the device? If I buy a nice
> little radio for $50 so I can listen to musical entertainment, is it not
> an entertainment device as well?
I believe he was pointing out that just pumping out $56 worth of
components doesn't magically create a device - there was a lot more
investment on Microsoft's part beyond just buying some materials and
slapping them together.
> Also, keep in mind that the Kinect is not some complex machine requiring
> many different pieces of hardware to make it function, like a PC or even
> a console. It is a simple set of electronics, working with two cheap
> cameras that translate the input images with software. The 360
> ultimately processes most of that through its system.
>
> As far as cost of development, MS didn't foot all of it into it as much
> as marketing, since the they bought (or is paying a fee to use) the
> technology from a foriegn customer a few years back. I am sure they just
> created the software to work with the games. It doesn't seem that costly
> to develop games for camera eye motion sensors.
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly-...
>
> http://www.cultofmac.com/how-apple-almost-got-microsofts-kinect-game-...
>
> http://www.primesense.com/
The alMIGHTY N
> On 11/22/2010 10:12 AM, Texan_2112 wrote:
>
> > Microsoft bought a chipset and an api. Everything else came out of
> > multiple years of software development on Microsoft's part to properly
> > exploit that chipset and api. I can't believe you are minimizing
> > Microsoft's involvement here.
>
> Little emotional over MS are you?? I am not minimizing anything, rather
> you're overstating MS' R&D expenditure with your previous comment. It
> was all but known that this system was developed by another company. MS
> is hardly innovative in anything, let alone ever having been innovative.
The sensing hardware was developed by PrimeSense, but the software was
developed by Rare. Microsoft of course needed PrimeSense to create the
base technology first, but they're the ones who actually made it do
something "useful."
Smart phones are nice and all, but if they didn't have any OS, apps,
etc. they wouldn't be all that useful for consumers.
The alMIGHTY N
> "The alMIGHTY N" <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:d6d1d2db-0fc2-41e3...@p1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I'm not sure who you're arguing with here. I'm quite certain I never
said that they shouldn't make a huge profit let alone any profit at
all.
$150 for the Kinect is quite reasonably priced compared to what you
would pay for the Move since the full Move experience for just one
player is already 67% of the price of the Kinect.
There's no comparison to the Wii, though. A Wii costs $199. An Xbox
360 Kinect bundle costs $299.