Dragons see invisible....great
garbanzo
very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
your equipment forever.
What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
to leave the game sooner and sooner.
Banky
think I will go slay a dragon today. Think about it..These are MULTIPLE high
level people who go after these things. They have ways of retrieveing their
corpses, and most that actually do go after dragons prepare enough that they
will win. Remember, this is what everyone wanted when they got rid of
kiting. RISK..deal with it. If you want god mode go to Quake.
garbanzo <do...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu...
Beaconboy1
attempting to kill a dragon should have no problem getting their equipment
back. I say they should, instead, have NO decay time while in the lair and be
lootable by anyone after a week or so. So its kind of like the whole fantasy
thing---you know, venturing into a lair, being able to pick up a magic sword
from the corpse of a fallen hero, etc etc. But by all means leave the game if
you have to cry because you can be killed by a dragon and lose your stuff. Go
play pac man or something
>Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
>very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
>your equipment forever.
>
>What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>
>Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
>to leave the game sooner and sooner.
am i still immune...
am i naked too?
Paul V
that if that is the case.
In article <381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>,
do...@hotmail.com (garbanzo) wrote:
> Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
> very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
> your equipment forever.
>
> What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>
> Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
> to leave the game sooner and sooner.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Larry Coghlan
villages they should be powerful and if any of you play ad&d you'll agrre it
think
Noslom
<19991022104233...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>oh god forbid they try to instal some consequences into the game...anyone
>attempting to kill a dragon should have no problem getting their equipment
>back. I say they should, instead, have NO decay time while in the lair and
be
>lootable by anyone after a week or so. So its kind of like the whole
fantasy
>thing---you know, venturing into a lair, being able to pick up a magic
sword
>from the corpse of a fallen hero, etc etc. But by all means leave the game
if
>you have to cry because you can be killed by a dragon and lose your stuff.
Go
>play pac man or something
Consequence : a bunch of high level players having to re-aquire
items they already had. Something tells me they are not going
to be in a good mood while they go after these items. This in
my mind will cause a lot of problems when I meet them in a
dungeon.
Unrecoverable corpses are a BAD idea. Increase the penalty
for death for these areas but don't go from one extreme to
another. Currently at high levels there is very little penalty for
death (with exp res the exp loss is about the same as for
lower levels.) and no equipment loss. To suddenly jump
to total equipment loss is a little extreme. Find some
middle ground.
Noslom
Harry Mason
wrote:
>Ok...this is the most whining I have heard. You don't causually say, hey, I
>think I will go slay a dragon today. Think about it..These are MULTIPLE high
>level people who go after these things. They have ways of retrieveing their
>corpses, and most that actually do go after dragons prepare enough that they
>will win. Remember, this is what everyone wanted when they got rid of
>kiting. RISK..deal with it. If you want god mode go to Quake.
>
Hmm haven't been on a dragon raid I see.
Normal Nagafen raid, pre-patch, would take about 5-6 hours to pull off
as well as 36-42 high level players working together. There could be a
lot more people on the raids but due to poor graphics design you can't
have that many people down there and keep the zone up or playable.
Dragons not being able to see invisible was the way you could get your
corpse recovered, dragged back to the staging area, and a 49+ cleric
would bring you back.
Now if you want to take down Nagafen, you'll need to do it in one
wave. Good luck on keeping the zone playable, players going link dead
and dying due to a poor graphics engine, or any number of other
possibilitites.
Pre-patch when you took Nagafen down you had the opportunity to split
the 5 or 6 items that dropped between 40 or so people. You were
guaranteed multiple deaths of most of the people and even with the
high level clerics doing the res's most everyone would lose quite a
bit of experience. So why hunt dragons? They drop a few nice items and
the feeling of accomplishment when you bring the beast down.
Post-patch Verant didn't let us know that Nagafen now saw invisible.
He was taken down to the r in Lord Nagafen on the first wave and then
the corpse retreival people went in to pull corpses and get the second
wave ready to finish the assualt. They were slaughtered. Now we had 30
or so 46+ corpses laying in Nagafen's Lair.
Yes we got them back, all of them. Naked warriors fighting with
summoned weapons died repeatedly while other ran in and drug out their
fallen comrades. Many players died 10+ times but we did it without GM
invervention. No we didn't kill Nagafen that night but we'll be back.
Nice of Verant to put out the message the next day ... oh Yah, we
forgot to mention that dragons now see invisible.
It seems that every time players figure out how to win againes the
odds that Verant stacks up againest us, they just make it harder. The
Plane of Fear is a prime example, but we'll figure it out.
I find it ironic that instead of fixing things that are broken Verant
keeps tweaking things for "player balance". The two high level zones,
lower Guk and SolB, are overcrowded and overhunted. The quests have
helped a bit with that. Instead of making PoF playable for high level
players, Verant is tweaking existing stuff to make it harder. They
thought PoF was too easy, and instead of making it a bit harder, they
brought it to impossible levels. Now they've backed off slightly from
that and it's still not hunted with any regularity on Cazic-Thule.
I think the designers at Verant take it personal when one of their pet
mobs is taken down. It's possible the game designers forgot who they
created this game for.
McTyne
Cazic-Thule
John Hanafin
on the One Ring.
garbanzo wrote in message <381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
Sean
<!-- begin!
wtf is ur prob mang? u want 2 get the phat lewt from nagifan and not die to?
WTF? if u want 2 get tha good shit u haf to die some,,,, if u lose ur corpse
tuf shit!! LOL u should hav a chance to lose ur shit if u want some of the
best shit in the game! loser
-->
(I feel dirty)
In English:
If you want the best things in the game you need to take a little risk.
Losing your corpse on a dragon hunt is more incentive to kill it and have
your healers... I don't know.. heal? If you don't want to take a risk, go
play solitare.
--
Sean S. -:- ICQ: 1826323
Zap small files with Zap `Em - http://home.rochester.rr.com/zapem
Visit www.ZenSearch.com a 100% quality search engine
EQ Log Renamed: http://home.rochester.rr.com/zapem/eq
(Email: sunymoon <AT> GeoCities >DOT< com )
"I tell you, there's nothing we're afraid to nerf. :)" - Brad McQuaid;
Everquest Producer
Banky
Thats nice, but this isn't EverLordOftheRingsQuest...It's Everquest, a
different gameworld...why do people always quote other game's or books...
John Hanafin <jo...@magiccarpet.com> wrote in message
news:s1165s...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hmm...I seem to remember that Smaug could not 'see invisible' when Bilbo
put
> on the One Ring.
Lokari
>Hmm...I seem to remember that Smaug could not 'see invisible' when Bilbo put
>on the One Ring.
Norrath isn't Middle Earth.
Sam Khatri
>"I say they should, instead, have NO decay time while in the lair and be
>lootable by anyone after a week or so. So its kind of like the whole
fantasy
>thing---you know, venturing into a lair, being able to pick up a magic
sword
>from the corpse of a fallen hero"
Oh yes. I am going to be very happy that you can run in and loot all my
armor and weapons just because within a Week I could not get together a
group and help me recover my corpse. Are you nuts?!!! I rather have it
decay then let a red tagged punk like you steal and loot my months and
months of work just beacuase I can't get back to a dragon. What will you be
corpse camping there then?
Nephlite Z'Ress
DE Shadow Knight of the 34 Rank
Cazic Thule
SirTifiable
garbanzo wrote in message <381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
>Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
>very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
>your equipment forever.
>
>What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>
>Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
>to leave the game sooner and sooner.
Could this have been done to give high level rogues something to do? That
is assuming that the rogue hide and sneak still works on dragons.
Good luck and good hunting.
SirTifiable
"of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most"
John Henders
>On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:29:58 -0400, "Banky" <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net>
>wrote:
>>Ok...this is the most whining I have heard. You don't causually say, hey, I
>>think I will go slay a dragon today. Think about it..These are MULTIPLE high
>>level people who go after these things. They have ways of retrieveing their
>>corpses, and most that actually do go after dragons prepare enough that they
>>will win. Remember, this is what everyone wanted when they got rid of
>>kiting. RISK..deal with it. If you want god mode go to Quake.
>>
>Hmm haven't been on a dragon raid I see.
Of course not. But rest assured, when and if he ever does, you'll hear
the whining server wide.
>Normal Nagafen raid, pre-patch, would take about 5-6 hours to pull off
>as well as 36-42 high level players working together. There could be a
>lot more people on the raids but due to poor graphics design you can't
>have that many people down there and keep the zone up or playable.
People on other servers appearantly laughed at the people on Tarrew
Marr for taking in 90 people on their first Nagafen slaying, but the
thing was, on TM we didn't know Nagafen couldn't see invis then.
>Dragons not being able to see invisible was the way you could get your
>corpse recovered, dragged back to the staging area, and a 49+ cleric
>would bring you back.
>Now if you want to take down Nagafen, you'll need to do it in one
>wave. Good luck on keeping the zone playable, players going link dead
>and dying due to a poor graphics engine, or any number of other
>possibilitites.
This is exactly what happens when you take enough people in to do it
without recovering corpses mid fight. You typically have about 25% of
your people lagged out and LD at any one instant, your casters have to
stand with their faces to the wall in order to be able to cast because
the video lag is so bad, and if you're real unlucky, the zone will
crash.
>forgot to mention that dragons now see invisible.
>It seems that every time players figure out how to win againes the
>odds that Verant stacks up againest us, they just make it harder. The
>Plane of Fear is a prime example, but we'll figure it out.
It's hard to "figure out" how to overcome the crappy limitations of the
programming and server, but I'm sure once you do they'll have another
"fix" in to make sure you can't do it again.
>I think the designers at Verant take it personal when one of their pet
>mobs is taken down. It's possible the game designers forgot who they
>created this game for.
This is quite obvious.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
Random User
your kind of attitude is what makes nice people act mean.
Remus Shepherd
> It seems that every time players figure out how to win againes the
> odds that Verant stacks up againest us, they just make it harder. The
> Plane of Fear is a prime example, but we'll figure it out.
Verant (i.e.: Brad and John) have said over and over again that as
the toughest things in the game get conquered, they will have their abilities
increased. The idea is to keep those uber-monsters a challenge. Players
are smart enough to evolve their tactics and improve their chances against the
big boys. But by continual tweaking, eventually Verant will find a set of
abilities for the dragons so that they are beaten only as rarely as Verant
wants them to be beaten, no matter what tactics the players use.
You can debate whether or not that's a good idea (I have no feelings
either way, myself), but Verant has been up front and consistent about it.
> I find it ironic that instead of fixing things that are broken Verant
> keeps tweaking things for "player balance". The two high level zones,
> lower Guk and SolB, are overcrowded and overhunted. The quests have
> helped a bit with that. Instead of making PoF playable for high level
> players, Verant is tweaking existing stuff to make it harder. They
> thought PoF was too easy, and instead of making it a bit harder, they
> brought it to impossible levels. Now they've backed off slightly from
> that and it's still not hunted with any regularity on Cazic-Thule.
The Plane of Fear was *cleaned out* on The Rathe server a few weeks
ago. A group of players, from multiple guilds, killed every monster in
the plane and killed Cazic Thule himself twice. I kind of expect them to
make it harder again. :/
I hope Paineel and The Hole, as well as the Kunark Expansion, has lots
of high-level areas for players to explore and hunt. I understand the
business model Verant's used at the launch of the game -- 'We don't expect
people to get to 50th level inside of 8 months of play, so we don't need
to release much for those levels right away'. But their projections of
how long it would take people were *very* far off; because, I think, they
neglected to take in account that one high level player would help other
players level. At this point they need to get more high level areas in
the game pretty quickly.
... ...
Remus Shepherd (re...@netcom.com)
John Henders
>garbanzo wrote in message <381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
>>Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
>>very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
>>your equipment forever.
>>
>>What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>>
>>Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
>>to leave the game sooner and sooner.
>Could this have been done to give high level rogues something to do? That
>is assuming that the rogue hide and sneak still works on dragons.
You don't think Verant would let hide and sneak escape the same
limitations as invisibility do you? See invisible sees rogues too.
Starhawk
SirTifiable <sirtifiable@_REMOVETHIS_mail.wowmail.com> wrote in message
news:7uqbeh$cgb$2...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Could this have been done to give high level rogues something to do? That
> is assuming that the rogue hide and sneak still works on dragons.
>
> Good luck and good hunting.
>
> SirTifiable
> "of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most"
>
Except hide is just an invisible spell on a skill button =) Come to think
of it, that's what Verant should have changed bind to.
A bit off topic here. I think our dear Brad will be reading the posts about
the new "enhancements". I have a quote I'd like him and the inhabitants of
Norrath here to read from Gabe Newell of Valve:
"Creating AI that is too tough is very easy, almost more so than creating
AI that's too weak, and in between is a very delicate balance. AI is just a
tool, and your goal is to create entertainment. There are lots of ways you
can fall in love with your own ideas and leave the gamer out in the cold."
Anyone disagree that Verants goal shouldn't be to provide entertainment?
How does possibly not being able to recover your corpse entertainment?
Starhawk
Brandon Mills
hypocritical. They think that because what they are changing doesn't
effect them, its ok - Its more than obvious from the posts. Personally
Brad needs to go to high level message board to listen about this because
you guys are just going to try to screw over high level players any ways.
I would like to see you all lose your corpse and not be complaining. The
entire idea is ludicrous. Most people would quit the game being that high
in level and have lost their corpse. I know most of you think when people
get high level, Brad should repay them with torture and suffering, but
Verant is in fact hurting its most devoted players by doing this. We have
had so many bugs that Verant just won't fix because Verant thinks they
don't have to test changes because changes should be made for "Everyone
except them" to play under. Verant, for any changes you make, I want to
see you doing the tasks you set out for the players. This has gotten
absurd, you guys placed the level 50 limit, and the EQ client can't
handle that many people in one zone without crashing them out!
I bet Verant still hasn't fixed the Dragon Fear bug where you have to LOG
in the middle of a dragon fight to cast a spell because the Dragon Fear
spell is buggy ( This is even if you resist the spell ) Verant, I hope
some decent competition comes your way because you truly have the worst
contact with the players I have ever seen. It seems you listen to no one
anymore except yourselves.
garbanzo wrote:
> Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
> very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
> your equipment forever.
>
> What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>
> Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
> to leave the game sooner and sooner.
--
Mills Lifestream
Lvl 50 Cleric - Rathe Server
http://www.everquester.com
-=[ Keeping an eye out for 'roleplaying' scum ]=-
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garbanzo
wrote:
>Ok...this is the most whining I have heard. You don't causually say, hey, I
>think I will go slay a dragon today. Think about it..These are MULTIPLE high
>level people who go after these things. They have ways of retrieveing their
>corpses,
If your corpse is sitting at a dragon's feet, you ain't getting it
back. Period. Anyone that did a corpse recovery from a dragon's lair
did it BEFORE the dragon's could see invis.
Derek J. Ludwig
have been partaking in the no real strategy approach to killin Naggie(basic Idea
is everyone to just rush him and have clerics rez and get right back into the
fray until the beast eventually dies) Kudos to Verant for helping keep Nag as a
challenge and not some lammerzz way of bummrush the Dragon so we can get kewl
loot without any thought as to actually make a strategy.
Harry Mason wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:29:58 -0400, "Banky" <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Ok...this is the most whining I have heard. You don't causually say, hey, I
> >think I will go slay a dragon today. Think about it..These are MULTIPLE high
> >level people who go after these things. They have ways of retrieveing their
> >corpses, and most that actually do go after dragons prepare enough that they
> >will win. Remember, this is what everyone wanted when they got rid of
> >kiting. RISK..deal with it. If you want god mode go to Quake.
> >
>
> Hmm haven't been on a dragon raid I see.
>
> Normal Nagafen raid, pre-patch, would take about 5-6 hours to pull off
> as well as 36-42 high level players working together. There could be a
> lot more people on the raids but due to poor graphics design you can't
> have that many people down there and keep the zone up or playable.
>
> Dragons not being able to see invisible was the way you could get your
> corpse recovered, dragged back to the staging area, and a 49+ cleric
> would bring you back.
>
> Now if you want to take down Nagafen, you'll need to do it in one
> wave. Good luck on keeping the zone playable, players going link dead
> and dying due to a poor graphics engine, or any number of other
> possibilitites.
>
> Pre-patch when you took Nagafen down you had the opportunity to split
> the 5 or 6 items that dropped between 40 or so people. You were
> guaranteed multiple deaths of most of the people and even with the
> high level clerics doing the res's most everyone would lose quite a
> bit of experience. So why hunt dragons? They drop a few nice items and
> the feeling of accomplishment when you bring the beast down.
>
> Post-patch Verant didn't let us know that Nagafen now saw invisible.
> He was taken down to the r in Lord Nagafen on the first wave and then
> the corpse retreival people went in to pull corpses and get the second
> wave ready to finish the assualt. They were slaughtered. Now we had 30
> or so 46+ corpses laying in Nagafen's Lair.
>
> Yes we got them back, all of them. Naked warriors fighting with
> summoned weapons died repeatedly while other ran in and drug out their
> fallen comrades. Many players died 10+ times but we did it without GM
> invervention. No we didn't kill Nagafen that night but we'll be back.
>
> Nice of Verant to put out the message the next day ... oh Yah, we
> forgot to mention that dragons now see invisible.
>
> It seems that every time players figure out how to win againes the
> odds that Verant stacks up againest us, they just make it harder. The
> Plane of Fear is a prime example, but we'll figure it out.
>
> I find it ironic that instead of fixing things that are broken Verant
> keeps tweaking things for "player balance". The two high level zones,
> lower Guk and SolB, are overcrowded and overhunted. The quests have
> helped a bit with that. Instead of making PoF playable for high level
> players, Verant is tweaking existing stuff to make it harder. They
> thought PoF was too easy, and instead of making it a bit harder, they
> brought it to impossible levels. Now they've backed off slightly from
> that and it's still not hunted with any regularity on Cazic-Thule.
>
> I think the designers at Verant take it personal when one of their pet
> mobs is taken down. It's possible the game designers forgot who they
> created this game for.
>
> McTyne
> Cazic-Thule
garbanzo
wrote:
>Most of the replies under this thread are from people lower level who are
>hypocritical. They think that because what they are changing doesn't
>effect them, its ok - Its more than obvious from the posts. Personally
>Brad needs to go to high level message board to listen about this because
>you guys are just going to try to screw over high level players any ways.
>
>I would like to see you all lose your corpse and not be complaining.
What he said.
Banky
Brandon Mills <bmi...@citynet.net> wrote in message
news:3810DFA7...@citynet.net...
> Most of the replies under this thread are from people lower level who are
> hypocritical. They think that because what they are changing doesn't
> effect them, its ok - Its more than obvious from the posts. Personally
> Brad needs to go to high level message board to listen about this because
> you guys are just going to try to screw over high level players any ways.
Spoken like a true high level DICK..I in fact had a lvl 29 shaman..not that
high, not that low. I lost my corpse to an unretrievable place( permafrost
pre fixin), and by your logic, I shouldn't be playing anymore, but I'll be
damned if I still don't play. Lvl 9 now and lovin it.
>
> I would like to see you all lose your corpse and not be complaining.
Did it, have the medal
The
> entire idea is ludicrous. Most
Powergaming
people would quit the game being that high
> in level and have lost their corpse. I know most of you think when people
> get high level, Brad should repay them with torture and suffering, but
> Verant is in fact hurting its most devoted players by doing this.
Would you like some cheese with that whine? Ohh, I am high level i have
nothing worthwhile to do and now you make the dragons hard. Shut up.
We have
> had so many bugs that Verant just won't fix because Verant thinks they
> don't have to test changes because changes should be made for "Everyone
> except them" to play under. Verant, for any changes you make, I want to
> see you doing the tasks you set out for the players. This has gotten
> absurd, you guys placed the level 50 limit, and the EQ client can't
> handle that many people in one zone without crashing them out!
Then fix that...the invis thing will still be there and you'll still whine..
>
> I bet Verant still hasn't fixed the Dragon Fear bug where you have to LOG
> in the middle of a dragon fight to cast a spell because the Dragon Fear
> spell is buggy ( This is even if you resist the spell ) Verant, I hope
> some decent competition comes your way because you truly have the worst
> contact with the players I have ever seen. It seems you listen to no one
> anymore except yourselves.
Except whiny elitist powergamers..
JubJub McRae
James
wrote:
>
>Brandon Mills <bmi...@citynet.net> wrote in message
>news:3810DFA7...@citynet.net...
>> Most of the replies under this thread are from people lower level who are
>> hypocritical. They think that because what they are changing doesn't
>> effect them, its ok - Its more than obvious from the posts. Personally
>> Brad needs to go to high level message board to listen about this because
>> you guys are just going to try to screw over high level players any ways.
>
>
>Spoken like a true high level DICK..I in fact had a lvl 29 shaman..not that
>high, not that low. I lost my corpse to an unretrievable place( permafrost
>pre fixin), and by your logic, I shouldn't be playing anymore, but I'll be
>damned if I still don't play. Lvl 9 now and lovin it.
>
At lvl29 most equipments can be bought, nothing too special but money.
At level 40-50 most gears can be a good/bad memory. Some are gifts
from friends, some are from a hard fight. And some are from boring
camping/quests. I will hate it very much if I lose any of my gears. I
might still play if it happened, but it is definately a bad design.
' Lvl 9 now and lovin it.' ? So you also gave up your lvl29 shaman
after you lost your corpse? how sad ! The thing is, if you don't care
too much about your char, you can easily start a new one after losing
corpse without hard feelings. But if you do like your char, it hurts.
Binbini
lvl45 wizard
Silverlock
wrote:
>
>Thats nice, but this isn't EverLordOftheRingsQuest...It's Everquest, a
>different gameworld...why do people always quote other game's or books...
>
>John Hanafin <jo...@magiccarpet.com> wrote in message
>news:s1165s...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Hmm...I seem to remember that Smaug could not 'see invisible' when Bilbo
>put
>> on the One Ring.
>> garbanzo wrote in message <381074a4...@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
>> >Basically this means that if you attempt to slay a dragon, there is a
>> >very very high probablity that you will lose your corpse and all of
>> >your equipment forever.
>> >
>> >What possible justification can there be for this enhancement?
>> >
>> >Fine with me. I won't go after the dragons. Keep giving me excuses
>> >to leave the game sooner and sooner.
>>
>>
>
Yeah its different... from last week. Why is this change necessary? It
already took large groups of people to fight a dragon, they have the
ability to teleport fleeing people to them and summon help. Now when
you fight them you lose all your stuff too? That's utterly stupid.
--
Silverlock, ICQ 474725
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
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to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Silverlock
wrote:
And worse yet they keep twinking for the power gamers. Heck its
doubtful I would ever have been on a Dragon run when they were non see
invisible but the thought of spending hours recovering corpses means
now it will never happen.
Banky
> At lvl29 most equipments can be bought, nothing too special but money.
Not everyone subscribes to EQ Kmart. I earn my equipment. It has meaning
other than, oh, i spent 100pp on that. My equipment has stories. And who's
to tell me what's special. Just because your boomstick is louder doesn't
mean mine is any less important to me.
>
> At level 40-50 most gears can be a good/bad memory. Some are gifts
> from friends, some are from a hard fight. And some are from boring
> camping/quests. I will hate it very much if I lose any of my gears. I
> might still play if it happened, but it is definately a bad design.
It's called risk. No doubt you look on the cheat sites and find the best
equipment out there so you can be walking armageddon, a cookie cutter of
everyone else in the game. I am lvl 10 now (yes) and the only real "gear" I
have is a dwarven tunic I got for saving a guy in crushbone, and a Short
sword of Morin I got for tracking a mob in WK for a higher level
char...after his kill the goblin runner ran by and he killed it for me *that
goblin is fast, must be carl lewis and stuff* The rest of my stuff is
patchwork, yes, patchwork that I made. And you know what, the pw has as much
sentimentality as the rest, because I made it. So as you can see, level
means SHIT, sorry about my french. If you want to powergame and get the kewl
loot, by all means, but DON'T tell me I and my equipment aren't important
because of level. Your stuff is just as important as mine, that Fiery
Avenger is just as important to the guy who earned it as the Shawl of the
Windspirit is to the lvl 2 bard that earned that.
>
> ' Lvl 9 now and lovin it.' ? So you also gave up your lvl29 shaman
> after you lost your corpse? how sad ! The thing is, if you don't care
> too much about your char, you can easily start a new one after losing
> corpse without hard feelings. But if you do like your char, it hurts.
No, actually I got new equipment back for him, but most the people around my
level were DICKHEADS that were only into camping for the next spawn. And all
the begging for buffs and SOW got on my nerves. I loved to play Jamin, my
shaman, He was great, I could do anything I wanted, but, certain abilities I
had made me a target for Kewl doodz to bother me all the time. So I created
Kihaji, Ranger (Yes Dennis, a Ranger). I love playing him now, I am taking
my time, been playing him now for about a month, I am a venture tailor,
smither, brewer, and baker. I will be doing pottery and hopefully some
jewelcraft also. As you can see I am very and utterly broke. I deleted Jamin
the other day, kind of sad, but, he wasn't what I wanted to be anymore, I
like to be lone and work on my terms, i couldn't with him. Level means
nothing if you haven't noticed. Once you get over level and the fear of
loosing your stuff, the game becomes much more fun.
As for the guy who said that the corpses should stay there, no, just the
loot. Dragons did have great wealth the aquired by killing the foolish
hero's that ventured into their lair. And as for some prick going in an
getting it, if he is in there, and able to pick up your loot, he probably
killed it and therefore EARNED it, he did after all succeed where you
failed.
>
> Binbini
> lvl45 wizard
Canuck
to pick up your loot, he probably killed it and therefore EARNED it, he did
post)
Hail! Hail! Hail! And Hail Again!
Nothing else to add... You said it all.
Bravo!
Canuck
Brian Cully
Banky <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net> wrote:
>
>> At lvl29 most equipments can be bought, nothing too special but money.
>
>Not everyone subscribes to EQ Kmart. I earn my equipment. It has meaning
>other than, oh, i spent 100pp on that. My equipment has stories. And who's
>to tell me what's special. Just because your boomstick is louder doesn't
>mean mine is any less important to me.
That's the thing, isn't it? I earned my equipment once, and I'll
be damned if I have to do it /again/. I have tons of motivation to
go out and get an executioner's hood the first time, the second
time will just be a boring camp.
Also, at 29 your equipment is /far/ easier to get than it is at
50. Camping for your charred guardian shield is /a lot/ easier than
camping for Ykesha. I mean, really, I've farmed about a dozen CGSs,
solo, it's /easy/.
We also have very rare items, too. You know, off those 2 week spawns
in Rathe. No thanks on getting those back. What about the monk
quest? You know how long it takes to get all the stuff for that
tunic?
My point is that permanent corpse loss on high level people is
orders of magnitude more difficult than it is for you. So don't
get all holier-than-thou because you lost your corpse and it didn't
bug you that much. You know what? I lost my corpse a lot at level
5 and I didn't care. Big deal. From a high level player's perspective,
there's not a lot of difference between losing it at 30 and losing
it at 5.
Powergaming my ass, we've already had our shitty camps for our
equipment, doing it again is even less fun. It has zilch to do with
powergaming.
Archi Tuttle
Monk at Large
Innoruuk
Noslom
Canuck wrote in message ...
Moot anyway, checked last nigh. Invis/Hide/Camo don't
work anymore but Sneak still does. So until they nerf
sneak as well it is still possible to get a corpse back
from under a dragon.
Noslom
Lorraine Venner
perma by mistake when chased by an ibs, the ice giants
can SUMMON you to Vox. [I did this once when I was a level 20
barbarian and got lost]
Or, say, SolB and LGuk are crowded, so let's kill ice giants...
Well, now ice giants are much much worse than they used to
be (and their loot isnt good for the risk either!)
Yes, having dragons see invis will really help the crowding problem....
it will make it much worse!
-lorraine
demonik...@demonic.com
BM: I would like to see you all lose your corpse and not be complaining. The
BM: entire idea is ludicrous. Most people would quit the game being that high
BM: in level and have lost their corpse. I know most of you think when people
BM: get high level, Brad should repay them with torture and suffering, but
BM: Verant is in fact hurting its most devoted players by doing this. We have
I agree here. I don't think that killing a dragon should be a walk in
the park, nor should Plane of Fear break-ins or the upcoming (I hope)
Plane of Hate. Having a dragon see invisible seems like a reasonable
thing. Unrecoverable corpses are not reasonable. In any circumstance.
Without my gear at the lowly level of 44, I would be useless as a
warrior. I *AM* my gear. This is not like when I lost my corpse in
Crushbone at level 8. I killed bats with my bare hands to make enough
money to buy new gear. For hours. It was not fun. Could I do the same
thing now for my current gear? No way.
Having to run through dangerous areas or survive res effects in
a nasty part of a zone in addition to losing experience is enough.
Unrecoverable corpses at level 45+ is not a reasonable "play risk"
when you have spent so much time, money, and effort into obtaining
(often rare) items that make you worthwhile in a group.
I haven't been to a Nagfen or Vox raid, though I hope to participate
in one someday. The idea of not being able to summon my corpse
(inevitable, as a tank) is spinechilling.
BM: except them" to play under. Verant, for any changes you make, I want to
BM: see you doing the tasks you set out for the players. This has gotten
BM: absurd, you guys placed the level 50 limit, and the EQ client can't
BM: handle that many people in one zone without crashing them out!
This does not only apply to things like dragon slaying or fear. The
new JBoot quest is absurd. If I want to quest for something that is
worth obtaining, one of the items necessary shouldn't be an accident.
It's not like I will happen to successfully run into the Ancient
Cyclops and kill him, solo, to get the ring that every INT hound
in the realm is chomping after. Sitting in a zone and killing newbie
monsters to make the "spawn table" roll over is also unreasonable.
Just my 2 copper tacked on.
~*Megwedariel Drakonblayde*~ | <= unguilded =>
Wood Elf Warrior of Kelethin, The Rathe (Level 44)
Banky
Brian Cully <sh...@natasya.mrf.va.noc.rcn.net> wrote in message
news:7v2koh$mjm$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> In article <B0HQ3.34191$E_1.1...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>,
> Banky <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net> wrote:
> >
> >> At lvl29 most equipments can be bought, nothing too special but money.
> >
> >Not everyone subscribes to EQ Kmart. I earn my equipment. It has meaning
> >other than, oh, i spent 100pp on that. My equipment has stories. And
who's
> >to tell me what's special. Just because your boomstick is louder doesn't
> >mean mine is any less important to me.
>
> That's the thing, isn't it? I earned my equipment once, and I'll
> be damned if I have to do it /again/. I have tons of motivation to
> go out and get an executioner's hood the first time, the second
> time will just be a boring camp.
>
> Also, at 29 your equipment is /far/ easier to get than it is at
> 50. Camping for your charred guardian shield is /a lot/ easier than
> camping for Ykesha. I mean, really, I've farmed about a dozen CGSs,
> solo, it's /easy/.
There's your cookie cutter attitude again. And the powergamer coming out,
you only need one shield, why oh why are you farming them then? Is it
because you are a.....Powergamer?
>
> We also have very rare items, too. You know, off those 2 week spawns
> in Rathe. No thanks on getting those back. What about the monk
> quest? You know how long it takes to get all the stuff for that
> tunic?
>
> My point is that permanent corpse loss on high level people is
> orders of magnitude more difficult than it is for you. So don't
> get all holier-than-thou because you lost your corpse and it didn't
> bug you that much. You know what? I lost my corpse a lot at level
> 5 and I didn't care. Big deal. From a high level player's perspective,
> there's not a lot of difference between losing it at 30 and losing
> it at 5.
It may be more difficult, but is it more important.
>
> Powergaming my ass, we've already had our shitty camps for our
> equipment, doing it again is even less fun. It has zilch to do with
> powergaming.
Powergamers camp, If I have to sit somewhere for more than 5 minutes, I go
elsewhere. Norrath is huge, there are more than enough unique items and
things to do than sit at a camp all day for the boomstick-wizzbang to be
dropped by a creature. But hey, if that tweaks your cookie, go ahead, I'll
be exploring. (How many people know about the hidden tunnels in neriak?)
James
wrote:
>> At lvl29 most equipments can be bought, nothing too special but money.
>
>Not everyone subscribes to EQ Kmart. I earn my equipment. It has meaning
>other than, oh, i spent 100pp on that. My equipment has stories. And who's
>to tell me what's special. Just because your boomstick is louder doesn't
>mean mine is any less important to me.
>
>>
>> At level 40-50 most gears can be a good/bad memory. Some are gifts
>> from friends, some are from a hard fight. And some are from boring
>> camping/quests. I will hate it very much if I lose any of my gears. I
>> might still play if it happened, but it is definately a bad design.
>
>It's called risk. No doubt you look on the cheat sites and find the best
>equipment out there so you can be walking armageddon, a cookie cutter of
>everyone else in the game. I am lvl 10 now (yes) and the only real "gear" I
>have is a dwarven tunic I got for saving a guy in crushbone, and a Short
>sword of Morin I got for tracking a mob in WK for a higher level
>char...after his kill the goblin runner ran by and he killed it for me *that
>goblin is fast, must be carl lewis and stuff* The rest of my stuff is
>patchwork, yes, patchwork that I made. And you know what, the pw has as much
>sentimentality as the rest, because I made it. So as you can see, level
>means SHIT, sorry about my french. If you want to powergame and get the kewl
>loot, by all means, but DON'T tell me I and my equipment aren't important
>because of level. Your stuff is just as important as mine, that Fiery
>Avenger is just as important to the guy who earned it as the Shawl of the
>Windspirit is to the lvl 2 bard that earned that.
Nah, I didn't say that your equipment weren't important. What I wanted
to say is.
If you lost your corpse at your level (10), how long does it take to
get these patchwork and dwarf tunic back? If you have 100pp in bank,
30 mins from auction, if you don't have enough money, one day killing
wolves to get PW, and a few more levels to get dwarf tunic since it is
kind of twinked for you.. But even then, you will hate to lose them
since they bring you good memories, and killing wolves is boring.
If you lost my corpse at lvl50, how long does it take to get your
gears back? Believe me, you can't buy them back. The only way is
camping, or settle with lvl 20-30 gears. It isn't going to be fun,
right ? And a game, is supposed to be fun.
Sure, risk is necessary. But imagine, if verant set up a rule, who
slayed by dragon would be wiped from Norrath, i.e, permanent death as
a punishment from challenging a god, you think anyone will go try it ?
The day before canceling account, maybe :)
Binbini
lvl 45 wizard in Innoruuk
Billy Shields
: On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:06:38 -0400, "Banky" <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net>
: wrote:
I thought I may as well weigh into this dragon seeing debate.
First off, conceptually speaking, dragons seeing invisible is
ENTIRELY unreasonble. On a side note I think this should exclude
rogues sneak/hide (as its already pretty crappy compared to invis).
May as well gives rogues SOMETHING they can do well.
Secondly, the only real problem here is the bugs. Namely:
1. The dragon fear bug
2. Too many people causing a zone crash
3. SEVERE lag from 90 people fighting something at once that makes
it completely unplayable (even if the zone stays up)
If you want to include the Plane of Fear in this discussion (about
bugs) then you have to add:
4. Free hits when zoning in
5. Too many people zoning in at once causing a zone crash
Now these bugs being well known I think its entirely unreasonable
for Verant to take a hard line on certain issues (like resurrection
as well as dragon sight) when bugs are the result of most of the
problems.
Personally I would have no problem with dragons seeing invis if
everything else actually worked.
Clearly it doesn't which is why its a problem.
As for the losing equipment, that isn't going to happen if you have
friends. You might die a lot but thats about it. If you want to
recover a corpse from Nagafen all you have to do is to go in naked
with invulnerability (so you don't care if you die) and drag that
corpse out of there. Someone will get it out if 20 people rush in.
And lets face it a death is a lot less significant than losing your
equipment at high level.
Of course the PoF is more difficult since you can't drag your
corpse to safety but (conceptually) I don't think its unreasonable
to have some situations where the corpse recovery is so difficult
that you may not be able to recover your corpse.
Again, this is on the proviso that its not bugs and game limitations
that cause you to die in the first place.
garbanzo
wrote:
>As for the losing equipment, that isn't going to happen if you have
>friends. You might die a lot but thats about it. If you want to
>recover a corpse from Nagafen all you have to do is to go in naked
>with invulnerability (so you don't care if you die) and drag that
>corpse out of there. Someone will get it out if 20 people rush in.
Vox will summon you back to her side repeatedly until your Divine Aura
is gone. You can't pull a corpse out this way.
Gordon Chapman
>
>Vox will summon you back to her side repeatedly until your Divine Aura
>is gone. You can't pull a corpse out this way.
With divine aura you are immune to spells, she shouldn't be able to do
this.
Although you are supposed to be INVULNERABLE (it says so in GREAT BIG
LETTERS LIKE THESE) and you can still be stunned, so I wouldn't count
on it working, however, I'm not going to go say hi just to find out.
On a related note, are the dragons all KOS ? or are they more relaxed
intelligent creatures you COULD actually TALK to ? (as they are
frequently displayed elsewhere)
G.
--
Software engineering is an ongoing battle between software
engineers constantly striving to create bigger and better
idiot-proof programs and the Universe constantly striving to
create bigger and better idiots.
Right now the Universe is winning.
Gordon W. Chapman
--Lead Artist
--Climax Group
--gor...@climax.co.uk
Brent Burkholder
Gordon Chapman wrote in message <3815bce2...@reading.news.pipex.net>...
>On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:39:15 GMT, do...@hotmail.com (garbanzo) wrote:
>>
>>Vox will summon you back to her side repeatedly until your Divine Aura
>>is gone. You can't pull a corpse out this way.
>
>With divine aura you are immune to spells, she shouldn't be able to do
>this.
>
>Although you are supposed to be INVULNERABLE (it says so in GREAT BIG
>LETTERS LIKE THESE) and you can still be stunned, so I wouldn't count
>on it working, however, I'm not going to go say hi just to find out.
>
>On a related note, are the dragons all KOS ? or are they more relaxed
>intelligent creatures you COULD actually TALK to ? (as they are
>frequently displayed elsewhere)
Well, if you didn't kill a bunch of goblins and ice giants to get down
there, maybe she'd be a little more relaxed. ;) Not sure if there's any
quest to actually INCREASE Vox faction... there might be. A guild might
want to designate one person as the Vox-Liason so that they could go in and
collect the corpses after a bungled raid.
thor...@my-deja.com
the people on EQ would do such. But most wouldn't, in my experience.
In article <s83Q3.3190$sa.1...@typ12.nn.bcandid.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
thor...@my-deja.com
lok...@enteract.com wrote:
> "John Hanafin" <jo...@magiccarpet.com> wrote:
>
> >Hmm...I seem to remember that Smaug could not 'see invisible' when
Bilbo put
> >on the One Ring.
>
> Norrath isn't Middle Earth.
>
>
Even if it were, the One Ring is an artifact-level magic item. Not the
same a some namby-pamby wizard's little level 16 invisibility spell,
IMHO.
garbanzo
wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:39:15 GMT, do...@hotmail.com (garbanzo) wrote:
>>
>>Vox will summon you back to her side repeatedly until your Divine Aura
>>is gone. You can't pull a corpse out this way.
>
>With divine aura you are immune to spells, she shouldn't be able to do
>this.
Being summoned does not involve a spell. It is an ability of Vox, not
a spell. She will bring you back.
Shrike
>
> Well, if you didn't kill a bunch of goblins and ice giants to get down
> there, maybe she'd be a little more relaxed. ;) Not sure if there's any
> quest to actually INCREASE Vox faction... there might be. A guild might
> want to designate one person as the Vox-Liason so that they could go in and
> collect the corpses after a bungled raid.
Is it just me, or is that an awesome idea?
--
Hanrahan, Druid in Fennin Ro, Griffin Snack.
"Remember, you reap what you SoW."
Brian Cully
Banky <den...@NOSPAMimcnet.net> wrote:
>There's your cookie cutter attitude again. And the powergamer coming out,
>you only need one shield, why oh why are you farming them then? Is it
>because you are a.....Powergamer?
I don't need any shields. I was farming them so I could sell them
off so I could buy a Tinker's Bag, which I did, or to outfit friends
of mine with neither the time nor the inclination to get them.
Which is beside the point, anyway. The point is that it's bloody
easy to get level 30 gear, and damn difficult to get level 50 gear.
>It may be more difficult, but is it more important.
Gear at high levels is much more important than it is at lower
levels. Getting Ykesha is almost a requirement for the classes that
can use it.
>Powergamers camp, If I have to sit somewhere for more than 5 minutes, I go
>elsewhere. Norrath is huge, there are more than enough unique items and
>things to do than sit at a camp all day for the boomstick-wizzbang to be
>dropped by a creature. But hey, if that tweaks your cookie, go ahead, I'll
>be exploring. (How many people know about the hidden tunnels in neriak?)
*bales of laughter*
*wipes a tear from his eye*
Oh man. That's a good one.
Norrath is /not/ huge. Norrath is only big for low level players.
At high levels there's nowhere to go, and nothing to get except
for a few specific places, which are: Lower Guk and Solusek B.
There are /not/ more than enough unique items for high level players.
In fact, most high level gear is shared by an ungodly number of
classes, so the two dozen or so things that drop on about a dozen
MOBs in those two places are camped to the hilt.
Powergamers didn't have these problems. Powergamers became high
level before the zones became camped to hell and back. It's the
average players, now 35+ that are realising there are no other
options worth talking about and move in with the rest of the crowds
in SolB and LGuk.
Bedouin
worn by most classes..
called, Bracers of allegiance to Vox.
Bedouin - Druid on Quel
Mousse - also on Quel, but not a druid. a WARRIOR GRRR
Shrike wrote in message <38158D...@alcaudon.com>...
Billy Shields
: On 26 Oct 1999 07:32:31 GMT, Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au>
: wrote:
:>As for the losing equipment, that isn't going to happen if you have
:>friends. You might die a lot but thats about it. If you want to
:>recover a corpse from Nagafen all you have to do is to go in naked
:>with invulnerability (so you don't care if you die) and drag that
:>corpse out of there. Someone will get it out if 20 people rush in.
: Vox will summon you back to her side repeatedly until your Divine Aura
: is gone. You can't pull a corpse out this way.
Even if 20 people are all doing this at the same time? There
something to be said for the strength of numbers. Sure some of
you (if not most) will die but thats why you go in naked: losing
a set of 50 equipment is a lot worse than eating a death.
Gordon Chapman
<bed...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I've been told about those cool (I think) red looking bracers than can be
>worn by most classes..
>called, Bracers of allegiance to Vox.
>
Don't know how much effect this would have, I was wearing a "Ring of
Allegiance to Najena" but I was still KOS to everything there.
Even though I'm a Dark Elf and haven't really hunted there much (I was
KOS to start with - yeah, clever).
John Henders
>Powergamers didn't have these problems. Powergamers became high
>level before the zones became camped to hell and back. It's the
>average players, now 35+ that are realising there are no other
>options worth talking about and move in with the rest of the crowds
>in SolB and LGuk.
No, you're wrong about this I think Archie. The new definition of
powergamer seems to be, anyone who's higher level/has better stuff than
me. If they weren't powergamers there's no way they'd be higher level
than me, they'd be lower level than me, and thus be lame ass newbies.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
Sophist
Quite honestly I'm still waiting for Verant to make a change that
HELPS the crowding problem at higher levels. It seems every move
they make is one step forward, 2 back....or just simply 2 back in
this case.
Sophist