Iksar shaman thoughts
Billy Shields
The fact that Verant has decided that iksars can't wear anything
that even looks like plate could be a real downer though.
AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
armour could be a serious downfall.
This is on top of several very nice plate like items: runed
mithril bracers and any of the golden efreeti pieces (particularly
the boots).
Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
Kunark.
On the plus side, iksar do seem to have the best starting shaman
stats (particularly the 120 starting wisdom).
Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
as a necro)?
Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
Faction problems are quite repairable when you're agnostic (as
I've done with a troll previously) but how much harder is it
when you have to choose a god (like Cazic Thule)?
What do people think the best shaman race is?
Barbs have the next best wis but they are night blind (damned
inconveient even with sight spells) and can't wear ivanddrys
hoop (which is a damn nice thing to wear).
Trolls have regen but the lowest wis and high exp penalty.
Ogres have in between wisdom and a high exp penalty but are
also immune to being stunned.
I'd like to be a shaman (over my druid). There is very few of
them (and even fewer competent ones) and they are extremely
useful. Not too sure how they fare in the 51+ stakes though
(I'm going to study the spell list later).
Chris Godfrey
>
> On the plus side, iksar do seem to have the best starting shaman
> stats (particularly the 120 starting wisdom).
>
It's 115, if you put the maximum number of points into it. Starting
strength definitely should be raised (or twink some jewelry) because 75
isn't enough to even wear full banded without being overweight. I have
to keep the strength buff up all the time and I can only carry 8 pounds
of loot.
griz
Billy Shields
Well, I wouldn't wear banded anyway. I'd rather wear mesh. Much
much lighter (though worse AC) until I can replace pieces with
+wisdom gear. Much of the +wis gear has +str bonuses too.
Its a non-issue in my case anyway since if I started an iksar
shaman it'd be level 30 within 2 playing days and twinked to the
max anyway.
Matt Frisch
scribed into the ether:
>I've been tossing up whether or not to start an iksar shaman.
>The fact that Verant has decided that iksars can't wear anything
>that even looks like plate could be a real downer though.
Good iksar-only shaman armor is only beginning to be found. There is that
iksar skull in the sarnak fort in ill omen, ac5 +3 wis. Easily
(effortlessly) obtainable at mid-20s, not at all like trying to get a
totemic helm (of course, not as GOOD as a totemic helm...)
>AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
>inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
>armour could be a serious downfall.
The innate armor the lizards have undoubtedly helps with this.
Are the rune etched pieces raced for all? I don't recall offhand.
>This is on top of several very nice plate like items: runed
>mithril bracers and any of the golden efreeti pieces (particularly
>the boots).
I think the jaundiced bone boots discovered in kunark are better than the
efreeti boots (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
The other thing to consider re: iksar equipment, is that most of the flood
of items that have been coming have mostly been coming from high level
areas like mist, or karnors...places that the uberguilds swarmed to and
found out what was in there. The low-mid level stuff has been pretty
untouched, since few (if any) iksar are high enough to go there, and anyone
from off kunark is shut out by the high level nature of Overthere and
Firiona Vie. Lots of places, and I'm sure many of them hold shaman
equipment, have been pretty untouched.
>Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
>Kunark.
This can be a bit of a wrinkle...but then on the other hand, you may never
need to LEAVE kunark (except for planar trips)
>On the plus side, iksar do seem to have the best starting shaman
>stats (particularly the 120 starting wisdom).
Hmm, 110, I believe, someone else said 115...but definately not 120 :)
>Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
>as a necro)?
Yes. Combine racial regen with regen/chloro, and the improved versions of
cannibalize, and you are a mana machine. Helpful as shamans have a crappy
mana pool to begin with, regardless of their wisdom.
>Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
>penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon categories, and a
definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim like madmen, and forage.
>Faction problems are quite repairable when you're agnostic (as
>I've done with a troll previously) but how much harder is it
>when you have to choose a god (like Cazic Thule)?
Since every iksar, without exception. worships cazic, the agnostic part
doesn't enter into it.
I saw a quote on a website (maximumeq I think) where an iksar monk had
spent 15 hours tagging gnolls in blackburrow, and had not even gone from
scowls to glares.
It is quite possible that for most cities, it will not be possible for
iksars to get enough faction to enter (nevermind make productive use of the
merchants/trainers)
>What do people think the best shaman race is?
>
>Barbs have the next best wis but they are night blind (damned
>inconveient even with sight spells) and can't wear ivanddrys
>hoop (which is a damn nice thing to wear).
My personal choice...the nightblindness is really not a huge deal.
Everfrost is *easily* the best lit zone at night in the entire game (cities
notwithstanding), and tides you over well until you get a lightstone and
level 9 for serpent sight. Once you get ultravision at 29, it is a
non-factor. A single ultravision cast at 5-6 pm will last well into the
dawn. Underground you don't even need to bother with that, the limitations
of lightstones don't factor into underground areas.
>Trolls have regen but the lowest wis and high exp penalty.
>
>Ogres have in between wisdom and a high exp penalty but are
>also immune to being stunned.
They also have unpleasant faction difficulties, and large size. Once you
hit 19, this becomes less of a problem, but it still IS a problem...in
getting totemic if nothing else, unless you plan on a major twinking
effort, any ogre or troll essentially has to buy 2 complete sets of banded
armor...a large size they can use, and a medium they can trade for totemic.
Shamans have gunky mana, taking a wisdom penalty on top of it by not being
a barb (or iksar) makes it that much worse.
>I'd like to be a shaman (over my druid). There is very few of
>them (and even fewer competent ones) and they are extremely
>useful. Not too sure how they fare in the 51+ stakes though
>(I'm going to study the spell list later).
Superior heal at 53, a pet at 55, new poison DoT at um...57? (I
think)...and that is about it. I am deeply unimpressed with the shaman post
50 spell listings.
WAY WAY WAY too many group buffs, and pointless ones at that. C'mon, how
important is group charisma, really? Now group int or group wis...that
would be a slick buff.
Torpor is nice at 60, but only useful on warriors/monks/rogues...the -200
mana it sticks on the target makes it worthless for anyone else.
Alasdair Allan
> >them (and even fewer competent ones) and they are extremely
> >useful. Not too sure how they fare in the 51+ stakes though
> >(I'm going to study the spell list later).
>
> Superior heal at 53, a pet at 55, new poison DoT at um...57? (I
> think)...and that is about it. I am deeply unimpressed with the shaman
post
> 50 spell listings.
Unimpressed? Its a fucking class killer.
Consider. Although we *finally* get superior heal, a level 53 spell will
*not* channel through hits. I will likely find that for most occaisions I
am stuck using Greater because I can at least rely on it casting. The pet
is *weaker* than a Shadowknight's pet (one level higher but no dual wield).
The Poison DoT is 20% more damage. I costs 50% more mana!
Regrowth is a lousy 15hp regen but I get it next level and at least I'll use
it. I get Superior at 53 and I'll use that as required. Once I get Acumen
and pet at 55 I will have ever spell I'll ever use.
> WAY WAY WAY too many group buffs, and pointless ones at that. C'mon, how
> important is group charisma, really? Now group int or group wis...that
> would be a slick buff.
>
> Torpor is nice at 60, but only useful on warriors/monks/rogues...the -200
> mana it sticks on the target makes it worthless for anyone else.
Torpor now sucks *400* mana from the target. It can't be used in combat on
tanks (Tagar effect) and will over-write anyone's SoW (as it Roots the
target). It is a pet heal and worthless for any other use.
The three "ultimate" Shaman spells are a stat buff (we will see what Avatar
does when the numbers are tested, the stat effects are worth maybe a
percentage point more damage from a tank, the ATK may help as it is Raw), a
Resistance debuff (and Magicians get one virtually as good) and a pet heal.
Woo hoo! Fight through 10 hell levels to get a pet heal...
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
abatt...@netscape.net
> AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
> inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
> armour could be a serious downfall.
that reason alone would be good enough for me to NOT start an iksar shaman.
that is, if i didn't already have a 40+ shaman..
> Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
> Kunark.
thats another good reason. i chose barbarian because i didn't want to be KoS
to most stuff like trolls/ogres.
> Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
> as a necro)?
highly. our regen spells stack with natural racial regeneration. this makes
for great cannibalize fodder. i almost made a troll because of that, but i
didn't want to be KoS as i said.
> Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
> penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
nope. <GRIN>. you can start with 105 wisdom as a barbarian. if i had put
all my points into that when i started, i'd have 15 more wisdom than i do now.
but thats only 120 mana. yeah, it would be useful to have that much more, but
i'm rarely below a bubble when i HAVE to have it anyway.
> Faction problems are quite repairable when you're agnostic (as
> I've done with a troll previously) but how much harder is it
> when you have to choose a god (like Cazic Thule)?
probably a lot. but how "repairable" is faction for iksar? i'd guess not
very.
> What do people think the best shaman race is?
barbarian.
> Barbs have the next best wis but they are night blind (damned
> inconveient even with sight spells) and can't wear ivanddrys
> hoop (which is a damn nice thing to wear).
night blind is not a problem when you get 9th level. serpent sight is a great
spell. and when you get 29th, your world is filled with bright purple hazes.
everfrost looks fucking cool with ultravision, in my opinion.
i'm really pissed about the hoop bullshit. fucking elves and humans can wear
it. trolls and ogres can wear it. but barbarians can't. what the fuck is
the logic there? i'm willing to spend the thousands of plat to get the hoop,
but i can't wear it so whatever.
there's no other earring, to my knowledge, that gives more than 3 wisdom.
fuckin marvelous. (yeah black sapphire earrings give a good amount of mana,
but i can't kill the dino and i'm certainly not able to get to the planes).
> Trolls have regen but the lowest wis and high exp penalty.
guh. icky. i level slow enough as it is.
> Ogres have in between wisdom and a high exp penalty but are
> also immune to being stunned.
ogres are fat and smell bad. :-)
> I'd like to be a shaman (over my druid). There is very few of
> them (and even fewer competent ones) and they are extremely
> useful. Not too sure how they fare in the 51+ stakes though
> (I'm going to study the spell list later).
the 51st level shaman in my guild kicks serious ass. tugur's on a wurm makes
it attack slow enough that just a monk and two wolf pets can tank it down.
(with appropriate heals). immobilize works better than enstill for parking
those annoying wandering apes. :-). i don't know much about 51+ for shamans.
tribunal doesn't even have a 52nd level shaman yet, as far as i know.
when you start your shaman, are you making a second account and power leveling
with the druid? :)
--
josh
Dark Jedi of the Sysadmin Sith Darth ddifdevrandomofslash
abatt...@netscape.net
> Are the rune etched pieces raced for all? I don't recall offhand.
BAR TRL OGR
no iksar for rune etched.
however, the tree weave is iksar wearable. and its a kick ass chest piece.
(i wear one instead of totemic now :).
> I think the jaundiced bone boots discovered in kunark are better than the
> efreeti boots (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
AC on GEBs is 5. the jaundiced is 18. fuck the efreeti boots, its all about
AC in my opinion. :-)
> This can be a bit of a wrinkle...but then on the other hand, you may never
> need to LEAVE kunark (except for planar trips)
nope, completely unnecessary. unless you want to visit your friends in the
lost temple of cazic thule :)
anyone know what the lizards there con to an iksar?
> cannibalize, and you are a mana machine. Helpful as shamans have a crappy
> mana pool to begin with, regardless of their wisdom.
bah. in a group, i rarely use all my mana up. i togor's/melee and heal when
needed. buffs are quickness, ac and hit point buffs. stat buffs only if i
have clarity. if i get below 40%, i stop meleeing and med.
> It is quite possible that for most cities, it will not be possible for
> iksars to get enough faction to enter (nevermind make productive use of the
> merchants/trainers)
probably. i imagine the lizards will NEVER get up to glares with ogres :-P.
> My personal choice...the nightblindness is really not a huge deal.
nope.
> level 9 for serpent sight. Once you get ultravision at 29, it is a
which he said he'd be 30 in /played 2 days.
> non-factor. A single ultravision cast at 5-6 pm will last well into the
yup, 12 game hour duration on ultravision.
> Shamans have gunky mana, taking a wisdom penalty on top of it by not being
> a barb (or iksar) makes it that much worse.
bleah! i have low base wisdom for a barbarian, 90. and i do just fine.
nyah nyah.
> think)...and that is about it. I am deeply unimpressed with the shaman post
> 50 spell listings.
there's a few good spells, but nothing that makes me want to race to 60. i'd
like to see how avatar stacks up. but i'll let someone else find out.
> WAY WAY WAY too many group buffs, and pointless ones at that. C'mon, how
> important is group charisma, really? Now group int or group wis...that
> would be a slick buff.
how about group quickness? how about finally getting a group regeneration
(yeah i know, its a parlour trick. shut up billy :P)? or how about this.
how about finally getting an upgrade to burst of flame? the single DD we have
that is not cold based is level 1. 5 damage. bah. thats how much winter's
roar will do to anything in kedge or permafrost (yes, i'm exaggerating, deal
with it).
Sergey Dashevskiy
@netscape.net says...
> Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
> > inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
> > armour could be a serious downfall.
>
> that reason alone would be good enough for me to NOT start an iksar shaman.
> that is, if i didn't already have a 40+ shaman..
There are many ways to play a shaman. I won't get into which is better,
but a lot of people play a pure caster shaman. The ones that don't even
own a weapon, and look like a clown in plate helm, gold boots, no
gloves, 2 dollies, leather pants, lavender bracers, red shirt. I don't
like it, but it's an option for people
>
> > Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
> > Kunark.
>
> thats another good reason. i chose barbarian because i didn't want to be KoS
> to most stuff like trolls/ogres.
>
> > Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
> > as a necro)?
>
> highly. our regen spells stack with natural racial regeneration. this makes
> for great cannibalize fodder. i almost made a troll because of that, but i
> didn't want to be KoS as i said.
Hell yeah. Shamans don't ever want to let me leave the group :) I raise
their regeneration to about 27 hp/tick in addition to their natural one.
That means they can get extra 20 mana every 12 seconds without losing
health at all
>
> > Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
> > penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
>
> nope. <GRIN>. you can start with 105 wisdom as a barbarian. if i had put
> all my points into that when i started, i'd have 15 more wisdom than i do now.
> but thats only 120 mana. yeah, it would be useful to have that much more, but
> i'm rarely below a bubble when i HAVE to have it anyway.
My shaman's wisdom after modifiers is 121 at level 30, and he has no
problems with it. Once I get my spear and buy a shield, it will go up to
136. That will be a lot for me
>
> > Faction problems are quite repairable when you're agnostic (as
> > I've done with a troll previously) but how much harder is it
> > when you have to choose a god (like Cazic Thule)?
>
> probably a lot. but how "repairable" is faction for iksar? i'd guess not
> very.
some of it is fixable, but I'd imagine it's worse than for TSKs
>
> > What do people think the best shaman race is?
>
> barbarian.
It's a personal preference. I'd prefer to have been an ogre for the
immunity to stun. But barbarians are awesome
>
> > Barbs have the next best wis but they are night blind (damned
> > inconveient even with sight spells) and can't wear ivanddrys
> > hoop (which is a damn nice thing to wear).
>
> night blind is not a problem when you get 9th level. serpent sight is a great
> spell. and when you get 29th, your world is filled with bright purple hazes.
> everfrost looks fucking cool with ultravision, in my opinion.
About everything does. My bard can see better in Dreadlands too, once
she hits her mask and gets ultravision
>
> i'm really pissed about the hoop bullshit. fucking elves and humans can wear
> it. trolls and ogres can wear it. but barbarians can't.
Hmm, barbarians get to use staff of observers. Both get to use Forest
loops, which are very nice. It's not quite that big of a deal
--
Vedun, 30th tank mage
Xirin, 31st retired druid
Xirinia Gusl'ar, 41st tanking bard of Povar, guildless
Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
Erin Smith
> Its a non-issue in my case anyway since if I started an iksar
> shaman it'd be level 30 within 2 playing days and twinked to the
> max anyway.
And this, right here, pretty much explains why you seem so dissatisfied with your
druid. Have you EVER given any thought to just PLAYING? Not getting in a level race
with yourself, not twinking yourself beyond maybe a decent weapon or shield, some
silver jewelry, and some leather armor?
I have fun with Kulani. I ALWAYS have fun with Kulani... even when I die because
of something horrifically stupid, I'm usually grinning like a fool and laughing my
ass off. Ask my kid sister and my partner. I can die 10 times on a corpse retrieve
and STILL be having fun.
If I was, as you are, obsessed with experience and k3wl l3wts, bet I wouldn't be
having half that much fun. It has taken me close to a year to get to 35... and I am
NOT a casual gamer. I play, pretty much, all day every day. 95% of the time I'm
playing Kulani.
So why did it take so long to get her as high as I have? It's called FUN. I have
it, powergamers don't.
--
Erin Smith (lady...@yahoo.com)
Kulani Shadowdancer, 35 Druid on E. Marr (NO MORE BOOK!!!!!!)
Sisilisko, 6 Shaman on E. Marr
ICQ # 58162391
--Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult
to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of
excrement when you least expect it.--
--Gene Spafford--
Mike
more fun from this game, even when I'm dying and losing experience like
crazy.
Ecwfrk
>
> And this, right here, pretty much explains why you seem so dissatisfied with your
> druid. Have you EVER given any thought to just PLAYING? Not getting in a level race
> with yourself, not twinking yourself beyond maybe a decent weapon or shield, some
> silver jewelry, and some leather armor?
>
> of something horrifically stupid, I'm usually grinning like a fool and laughing my
> ass off. Ask my kid sister and my partner. I can die 10 times on a corpse retrieve
> and STILL be having fun.
>
> having half that much fun. It has taken me close to a year to get to 35... and I am
> NOT a casual gamer. I play, pretty much, all day every day. 95% of the time I'm
> playing Kulani.
>
> So why did it take so long to get her as high as I have? It's called FUN. I have
> it, powergamers don't.
People like you are the only reason I continue to play this game. Too bad
you're getting more and more rare by the day...
Billy Shields
: Billy Shields wrote:
:> Its a non-issue in my case anyway since if I started an iksar
:> shaman it'd be level 30 within 2 playing days and twinked to the
:> max anyway.
: And this, right here, pretty much explains why you seem so dissatisfied with your
: druid. Have you EVER given any thought to just PLAYING? Not getting in a level race
: with yourself, not twinking yourself beyond maybe a decent weapon or shield, some
: silver jewelry, and some leather armor?
Different strokes for differnt folks.
I've done the low level thing. I've played some 5 untwinked
characters below level 20. I don't consider the first 20 levels
to be that special or even different from one class to any other
so I'd rather just skip them.
There are exceptions to this. Like the first necro I played I
didn't twink (not initially anyway) and I played it like any
other newbie would so I could learn the tacctics. I died so
many times I lost count but hey thats ok the knowledge I gained
was worth far more than the time to recover from those deaths.
: I have fun with Kulani. I ALWAYS have fun with Kulani... even when I die because
: of something horrifically stupid, I'm usually grinning like a fool and laughing my
: ass off. Ask my kid sister and my partner. I can die 10 times on a corpse retrieve
: and STILL be having fun.
: If I was, as you are, obsessed with experience and k3wl l3wts, bet I wouldn't be
: having half that much fun. It has taken me close to a year to get to 35... and I am
: NOT a casual gamer. I play, pretty much, all day every day. 95% of the time I'm
: playing Kulani.
I was some 40 days old at level 35--as a druid. I certainly know
what stopping to smell the roses is like. Don't go labelling me
a k3wl l3wts player because I have a desire to skip the earlier
levels. At level 50 (druid) I have no planes or dragon loot and
the most valuable item I own is a manastone. Then again when I
bought that they were only 1500pp. The only other semi-valuable
item is a paw of opolla. I couldn't be the least concerned about
items. They're largely irrelevant for all but melee classes
anyway.
: So why did it take so long to get her as high as I have? It's called FUN. I have
: it, powergamers don't.
How do you know (so-called) powergamers don't have fun? It strikes
me as highly illogical that someone would continue to play if they
weren't at least having some fun. I'll say it again: different
strokes for different folks.
abatt...@netscape.net
> There are many ways to play a shaman. I won't get into which is better,
> but a lot of people play a pure caster shaman. The ones that don't even
> own a weapon, and look like a clown in plate helm, gold boots, no
> gloves, 2 dollies, leather pants, lavender bracers, red shirt. I don't
> like it, but it's an option for people
better is a relative term anyway. the problem is the shamans that switch
between being pseudo tank and caster regularly. they don't spend enough time
at either to be good. that's why i've dumped most of my +wis gear for AC and
decided to be a tank shaman. plus it suits me better. i wanted to play a
class that can fight as well as cast good spells. just so happens that
shamans are the class for me :)
> My shaman's wisdom after modifiers is 121 at level 30, and he has no
> problems with it. Once I get my spear and buy a shield, it will go up to
> 136. That will be a lot for me
of course you don't have a problem with it. its not a problem :)
i can get my wis down to like 123 with full bore AC gear minus shield (2h is
better for damage in my experience) or 148 wis with a few wis items (spear,
shield, RMBs, rings).
>> > What do people think the best shaman race is?
>> barbarian.
> It's a personal preference. I'd prefer to have been an ogre for the
> immunity to stun. But barbarians are awesome
best / better is always a relative term. especially in something like this
where its a preference.
just so happens that my preference is the best <GRIN>.
> About everything does. My bard can see better in Dreadlands too, once
> she hits her mask and gets ultravision
:-P
> Hmm, barbarians get to use staff of observers. Both get to use Forest
> loops, which are very nice. It's not quite that big of a deal
staff of observers is a toothpick. real shamans use gatorsmash maul for 2h
blunt.
forest loop. <drooling>. the big deal is 6 AC 6 wis. the loop is 2 AC 3
wis. that's quite a difference for one small item. :)
Sam Schlansky
<390fda2e...@news.earthlink.net>:
>On 03 May 2000 05:45:16 GMT, Billy Shields
><ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> scribed into the ether:
>
>>I've been tossing up whether or not to start an iksar shaman.
>>The fact that Verant has decided that iksars can't wear anything
>>that even looks like plate could be a real downer though.
>
>Good iksar-only shaman armor is only beginning to be found. There
>is that iksar skull in the sarnak fort in ill omen, ac5 +3 wis.
>Easily (effortlessly) obtainable at mid-20s, not at all like
>trying to get a totemic helm (of course, not as GOOD as a totemic
>helm...)
Not remotely as good as a totemic helm.
>>AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
>>inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
>>armour could be a serious downfall.
>
>The innate armor the lizards have undoubtedly helps with this.
Nobody knows how the innate armor works yet, because nobody has run
the numbers to compare.
>Are the rune etched pieces raced for all? I don't recall offhand.
No. Iksar cannot wear rune-etched.
>>This is on top of several very nice plate like items: runed
>>mithril bracers and any of the golden efreeti pieces
>>(particularly the boots).
>
>I think the jaundiced bone boots discovered in kunark are better
>than the efreeti boots (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
They're both better and worse. They have a great armorclass, but they
give no (0) wisdom. I can't imagine any shaman wearing them over
efreeti boots unless they're wearing the rune etched breastplate and
legs. They're "I got 200 wisdom already" items.
>The other thing to consider re: iksar equipment, is that most of
>the flood of items that have been coming have mostly been coming
>from high level areas like mist, or karnors...places that the
>uberguilds swarmed to and found out what was in there. The low-mid
>level stuff has been pretty untouched, since few (if any) iksar
>are high enough to go there, and anyone from off kunark is shut
>out by the high level nature of Overthere and Firiona Vie. Lots of
>places, and I'm sure many of them hold shaman equipment, have been
>pretty untouched.
The low level stuff has been explored a lot too. There's very little
wisdom equipment there. Sure, there's more to be discovered... but a
whole set of wisdom armor? Nah.
>>Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
>>Kunark.
>
>This can be a bit of a wrinkle...but then on the other hand, you
>may never need to LEAVE kunark (except for planar trips)
There's no reason to leave kunark, ever. Well, if you count the
planes, I GUESS.... but they can't wear rune etched.
>>On the plus side, iksar do seem to have the best starting shaman
>>stats (particularly the 120 starting wisdom).
>
>Hmm, 110, I believe, someone else said 115...but definately not
>120 :)
Yes, it's 110.
>>Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
>>as a necro)?
>
>Yes. Combine racial regen with regen/chloro, and the improved
>versions of cannibalize, and you are a mana machine. Helpful as
>shamans have a crappy mana pool to begin with, regardless of their
>wisdom.
Cannibalize is shit.
Cannibalize doesn't "make max mana worthless". Lich+BOD does. Not
cannibalize.
My mana pool is fine. My shaman has 2164 mana at level 52.
>>Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
>>penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
For a shaman, absolutely not.
For a monk, absolutely.
For a necromancer, absolutely.
For a warrior or shadowknight, absolutely not... but they can wear
truesilver mail which has better AC than rubicite. Combined with
their innate AC bonus, their AC might be pretty damn good. No way to
tell yet.
>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
>like madmen, and forage.
Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
Forage is worthless.
(snip)
>I saw a quote on a website (maximumeq I think) where an iksar monk
>had spent 15 hours tagging gnolls in blackburrow, and had not even
>gone from scowls to glares.
>
>It is quite possible that for most cities, it will not be possible
>for iksars to get enough faction to enter (nevermind make
>productive use of the merchants/trainers)
So? Why would they want to leave kunark anyway?
(snip)
>Shamans have gunky mana, taking a wisdom penalty on top of it by
>not being a barb (or iksar) makes it that much worse.
My mana is fine. Of course I have nice items. :)
>>I'd like to be a shaman (over my druid). There is very few of
>>them (and even fewer competent ones) and they are extremely
>>useful. Not too sure how they fare in the 51+ stakes though
>>(I'm going to study the spell list later).
>
>Superior heal at 53, a pet at 55, new poison DoT at um...57? (I
>think)...and that is about it. I am deeply unimpressed with the
>shaman post 50 spell listings.
Join the party. The >50 shaman spells basically suck. The DD is crap,
the poison DoT is crap, we only get one pet, and our "god" spells
(torpor and avatar) are nerfed to shit and/or totally worthless.
>WAY WAY WAY too many group buffs, and pointless ones at that.
>C'mon, how important is group charisma, really? Now group int or
>group wis...that would be a slick buff.
The group buffs take almost twice as much mana as they should, and in
many cases (the group str and cha buffs) are absolutely totally 100%
undenyably worthless.
>Torpor is nice at 60, but only useful on
>warriors/monks/rogues...the -200 mana it sticks on the target
>makes it worthless for anyone else.
Torpor used to be a really cool, interesting, tactical spell, now
it's shit. Don't forget that it overwrites SoW and all haste buffs
too.
If it isn't changed to group-only, it'll be great in PvP.
Sam
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danstrad
Sam Schlansky wrote in message <8F2A46115vi...@207.126.101.100>...
<snip>
>>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
>>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
>>like madmen, and forage.
>
>Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
>whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
>
>The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
>
>Forage is worthless.
>
Forage is far from useless for an evil race, especially one as KoS as the Iksar.
<snip>
Sam Schlansky
<01bfb4df$6a0ff2c0$240201c0@dell40>:
>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote
>> On 03 May 2000 05:45:16 GMT, Billy Shields
>> <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> scribed into the ether:
(snip)
>Consider. Although we *finally* get superior heal, a level 53
>spell will *not* channel through hits. I will likely find that
>for most occaisions I am stuck using Greater because I can at
>least rely on it casting.
Oh, I dunno about that. When you're the main healer, channeling
through hits isn't usually a big problem. I guess we'll see.
>The pet is *weaker* than a
>Shadowknight's pet (one level higher but no dual wield).
Our 49 pet is five levels lower than the necro's 49 pet, and only
hits for seven less max damage. Level is a major part of it, but
damage matters too.
All-in-all, I'd guess that the 44 necro pet (which SKs get) will end
up dealing SLIGHTLY more damage than our 55 pet and will have 30%
more hitpoints.
Of course I could be totally wrong. Even though our 55 pet is between
level 35 and 39, it might doubleattack for 64 and have 2400HP (as it
should). But I doubt it.
>The Poison DoT is 20% more damage. I costs 50% more mana!
The poison dot is fucking insulting.
Venom of Snake, lvl 39: 2.83 dam/mana
Ebolt, lvl 49: 3.54 dam/mana (0.71 more)
Bane of Nife, lvl 56: 3.88 dam/mana (0.34 more)
Scourge, lvl 34: 3.20 dam/mana
Plague, lvl 49: 4.05 dam/mana (0.85 more)
Pox of Bertox, lvl 4.86 dam/mana (0.81 more-- in only 108 secs)
It seems obvious that Bane of Nife should have a 4.25 dam/mana
efficiency. It SHOULD do a 150DD followed by 236 damage per tick, a
total 1802 damage for 425 mana.
Too much damage in too short a time? NO PROBLEM. Adjust it, drop the
mana and the damage, but the EFFICIENCY SHOULD BE 4.25 NOT 3.88.
That's less than fucking plague!
Compare that to the current bane of nife; 150DD followed by 214
damage per tick, for 1648 damage for 425 mana. A MUCH worse spell.
Under the current SPDAT, Bane of Nife is total shit, and Pox of
Bertox is better than it actually should be. I'd much prefer a useful
Bane of Nife (as above) and a useless Pox of Bertox (taking 21 ticks)
to what we've got now.
>Regrowth is a lousy 15hp regen but I get it next level and at
>least I'll use it. I get Superior at 53 and I'll use that as
>required. Once I get Acumen and pet at 55 I will have ever spell
>I'll ever use.
Nah. You'll use Pox of Bertox, Malosini, and Malo. Of course
magicians get Malosini and (essentially) Malo too.
>> WAY WAY WAY too many group buffs, and pointless ones at that.
>> C'mon, how important is group charisma, really? Now group int or
>> group wis...that would be a slick buff.
>>
>> Torpor is nice at 60, but only useful on
>> warriors/monks/rogues...the -200 mana it sticks on the target
>> makes it worthless for anyone else.
>
>Torpor now sucks *400* mana from the target.
No it doesn't. No possible interpretation of the spell gives 400
mana. Torpor either:
a) Takes 50 mana directly from the target.
or
b) Takes 50 mana per tick for four ticks from the target for a total
of 200 mana.
It's either A or B. If it's A (which I very much doubt) Torpor is
actually a pretty good spell. Not great, not what a level 60 spell
SHOULD be, but a pretty good spell.
But we both know it's gonna be B, now don't we?
>It can't be used in
>combat on tanks (Tagar effect) and will over-write anyone's SoW
>(as it Roots the target). It is a pet heal and worthless for any
>other use.
It's not supposed to be used in combat; that's the entire point of
the spell... and I'm cool with that. But the increased mana cost and
the 200 mana drain from target make it marginal for DOWNTIME
healing-- and that I'm NOT cool with.
>The three "ultimate" Shaman spells are a stat buff (we will see
>what Avatar does when the numbers are tested, the stat effects are
>worth maybe a percentage point more damage from a tank, the ATK
>may help as it is Raw), a Resistance debuff (and Magicians get one
>virtually as good) and a pet heal.
>
>Woo hoo! Fight through 10 hell levels to get a pet heal...
The magicians' resistance debuff is not "virtually as good". It IS as
good-- Malo and Mala's ONLY POSSIBLE USE is to get Malosini to stick.
They're worthless spells on their only. Their ONLY POSSIBLE UTILITY
LIES IN THEIR BEING UNRESISTABLE.
So Mala does 10 less resistance debuff? Who gives a fuck, because
Malosini is coming next, and that'll stick just as well with -84
magic resist (tashanian+malo) as -74 (tashanian+mala).
Sam Schlansky
<8ernc6$it7$1...@news.ihug.co.nz>:
>Sam Schlansky wrote in message
><8F2A46115vi...@207.126.101.100>...
>
><snip>
>
>>>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
>>>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
>>>like madmen, and forage.
>>
>>Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
>>whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
>>
>>The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
>>
>>Forage is worthless.
>
>Forage is far from useless for an evil race, especially one as KoS
>as the Iksar.
The hell it isn't. Who the hell WANTS to leave Kunark, ever?
Billy Shields
: postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk (Alasdair Allan) wrote in
: <01bfb4df$6a0ff2c0$240201c0@dell40>:
:>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote
:>> On 03 May 2000 05:45:16 GMT, Billy Shields
:>> <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> scribed into the ether:
: (snip)
:>Consider. Although we *finally* get superior heal, a level 53
:>spell will *not* channel through hits. I will likely find that
:>for most occaisions I am stuck using Greater because I can at
:>least rely on it casting.
: Oh, I dunno about that. When you're the main healer, channeling
: through hits isn't usually a big problem. I guess we'll see.
But in a hairy situation what are you going to do: cast superior
heal which you know fairly certainly will be interrupted if you
get hit or greater heal which is incredibly hard to interrupt
(I'm actually surprised when I get interrupted when tanking
something that hits for 80+ a hit; except for bashing of course).
:>The pet is *weaker* than a
:>Shadowknight's pet (one level higher but no dual wield).
: Our 49 pet is five levels lower than the necro's 49 pet, and only
: hits for seven less max damage. Level is a major part of it, but
: damage matters too.
Yes it does. The necro pet dual wields. The shaman pet does not
so the damage margin is a bit wider than 7 points.
: All-in-all, I'd guess that the 44 necro pet (which SKs get) will end
Mr Foo Bar
drink ? So where is the use of forage (besides a couple of low level quests)
?
danstrad <dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8ernc6$it7$1...@news.ihug.co.nz...
>
> Sam Schlansky wrote in message <8F2A46115vi...@207.126.101.100>...
>
> <snip>
>
> >>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
> >>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
> >>like madmen, and forage.
> >
> >Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
> >whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
> >
> >The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
> >
> >Forage is worthless.
> >
>
>
> Forage is far from useless for an evil race, especially one as KoS as the
Iksar.
>
> <snip>
>
>
danstrad
Mr Foo Bar wrote in message
<957520576.26388.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Uhm, the context is iksar shaman, didnt you notice they get summon food and
>drink ? So where is the use of forage (besides a couple of low level quests)
>?
I was speaking for Iksar in general. Forage is inherently better than summon
anyway, you can forage while doing other things and the provisions won't vanish
when you log.
>danstrad <dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:8ernc6$it7$1...@news.ihug.co.nz...
>>
>> Sam Schlansky wrote in message <8F2A46115vi...@207.126.101.100>...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
>> >>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
>> >>like madmen, and forage.
>> >
>> >Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
>> >whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
>> >
>> >The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
>> >
>> >Forage is worthless.
>> >
>>
>>
Mr Foo Bar
Anyway foraged isn't better in all regards than summoned, summoned is
guaranteed, foraged isn't. (Summoned also helps practice conjuration for
those dots).
Going off topic ;-) I agree for other Iksar it certainly is useful. Enough
(along with the ac bonus and regen) to make up for the xp penalty, KOS and
inability to wear plate or the exisiting class armours ? Doesn't look like
it so far, but I assume Verant have some Iksar specific armours to make up
for that lack.
danstrad <dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8eu9ie$h92$1...@news.ihug.co.nz...
>
> Mr Foo Bar wrote in message
> <957520576.26388.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> >Uhm, the context is iksar shaman, didnt you notice they get summon food
and
> >drink ? So where is the use of forage (besides a couple of low level
quests)
> >?
>
>
> I was speaking for Iksar in general. Forage is inherently better than
summon
> anyway, you can forage while doing other things and the provisions won't
vanish
> when you log.
>
> >danstrad <dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> >news:8ernc6$it7$1...@news.ihug.co.nz...
> >>
> >> Sam Schlansky wrote in message
<8F2A46115vi...@207.126.101.100>...
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> >>Also higher int (helpful for keeping up with all 3 weapon
> >> >>categories, and a definite boon for alchemy). Plus they can swim
> >> >>like madmen, and forage.
> >> >
> >> >Intelligence does not affect weapon skill raise. It's debatable
> >> >whether it affects alchemy skill raises.
> >> >
> >> >The innate swimming skill is a throwaway. Whoopee.
> >> >
> >> >Forage is worthless.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
Pat Cole
>drink ? So where is the use of forage (besides a couple of low level quests)
>?
Summoning food and water sucks :) It takes like 10 min to summon a stack of
both (if you don't have that "make the donuts" spell :) and if you go LD, it
goes away. Bah, I'll take forage anyday. Although capped at a fairly low level,
my lizard necro has actually foraged quite a bit of stuff, and saved, gee, I
dunno, maybe 1 gp on food/water :) The big usefulness of forage is that you
never, ever have to go back to civilization unless you want to sell. With
judicious use of spirit pouches from shaman friend (yes, I know, no-rent,
dangerous... I am weak) and ruthless "plat maximization" of items I kept, Knot
has stayed in the wilderness for weeks at a time before. Not to mention, I
forage constantly while adventuring and hand the food out to my companions.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to make friends with someone who thinks they
have to run back to Firiona from Frontier Mountains (which, BTW, are coolest
zone I have ever seen, bring on the badgers and goblin dirtcallers) thru
"spider zone of sooner-than-instant-death" because they're hungry when you hand
them 2 stacks of food and a stack of water.
Pat
Knot: 33 Druid Lanys T'vyl
Who foraged a gold nugget in Frontier Mountains last night, anyone know what
it's for?
David Schrank
after 39 for us). Regen though really speeds down time also(puppy is fragile
and you have to bleed for him, plus chlor 3 will speed mana regen). If I had
it to do again I would make a lizzie I think, though after 51 levels thats
not happining. On the other hand my baby liz necro rocks. God am I going to
need int items one day (110 sucks).
Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:390fbcec$0$22...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> I've been tossing up whether or not to start an iksar shaman.
> The fact that Verant has decided that iksars can't wear anything
> that even looks like plate could be a real downer though.
>
> AC is imiportant to shamans (unlike, say, necros). As such the
> inability to wear one's class specific (totemic) or even planar
> armour could be a serious downfall.
>
> This is on top of several very nice plate like items: runed
> mithril bracers and any of the golden efreeti pieces (particularly
> the boots).
>
> Verant has also made them KOS virtually everywhere outside of
> Kunark.
>
> On the plus side, iksar do seem to have the best starting shaman
> stats (particularly the 120 starting wisdom).
>
> Do people think the regen is useful as a shaman (it certainly is
> as a necro)?
>
> Are the armour restrictions, faction problems and high exp
> penalty worth the higher wisdom and regen?
>
> Faction problems are quite repairable when you're agnostic (as
> I've done with a troll previously) but how much harder is it
> when you have to choose a god (like Cazic Thule)?
>
> What do people think the best shaman race is?
>
> Barbs have the next best wis but they are night blind (damned
> inconveient even with sight spells) and can't wear ivanddrys
> hoop (which is a damn nice thing to wear).
>
> Trolls have regen but the lowest wis and high exp penalty.
>
> Ogres have in between wisdom and a high exp penalty but are
> also immune to being stunned.
>