Wizard of Oz as Political Parable vectored in WSJ. Movie Script Added!
Grinch
as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
populist political parable. (The Wizard being President McKinley; the
Cowardly Lion, William Jennings Bryan; the Wicked Witches of East &
West, the evil moneyed interests; the yellow brick road, the gold
standard; the munchkins, America's "little people", etc. & so on.)
That's not a new idea. But this piece also claims that the movie script
was a conscious revision of the story for Rooseveltian political
purposes, and that's a new one to me.
For anyone not familiar with the "Oz as Parable" idea who'd like a
lively presentation of it with illustrations, here:
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/dbj5/oz.html
And for the boring, academic, plain-text debunking:
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/t/tiktok/oz/parable.txt
This is really a great example of how 60 years after the fact it's
possible to read *anything* into a story and make it sound good -- with
sufficient analysis, the Winged Monkeys become the Plains Indians, and
Toto the Dog becomes the Prohibition Movement that tagged along with the
Populists.
It's also a fine example of how a boring, factual debunking never
catches up with a snazzy UL. For all the work that the UL believers
have put into ferreting out every iota of analogy in "Oz", none have
ever noticed the rather crude facts that Frank Baum owned a partisan
Republican newspaper and wrote poems in praise of McKinley.
There is some little irony in the WSJ publishing this UL. For years its
editorial pages have been lamenting that US colleges teach bogus
pseudo-history and absurd literary interpretations to further the social
agenda of liberal faculties.
That's exactly how the Oz as Political Parable myth got started in the
1960s -- as a pedagogical tool used to help illustrate to students the
virtues of popular movements and the evils of the moneyed interests. And
here's the WSJ repeating it, and praising it! The book, that is.
Of course, the WSJ puts its own spin on the Wiz UL. It says the book's
final moral was a virtuous one of small government and personal
responsibility (the Wizard -- the government -- can't fix your life for
you).
But, it says, "this message was uncongenial to E.Y. Harburg, the
socialist New Dealer who had the most to do with scripting the movie.
The movie makes the Wizard a force for good. . . He gives, however
indirectly, what the New Deal promised the American people -- brains,
heart and courage. The Wizard's farewell address was readily
identifiable to the audiences of 1939 with the style of Franklin
Roosevelt".
All I can say is that if Baum and Harburg both put so much work into
sending political messages to contemporary audiences, they were
singularly unsuccessful. Not one word on the politics of the Wizard of
Oz appeared until decades later, when it was all history. Failures
both.
The believers in the UL never mention that either.
The Journal's editors have been notably tough on a bunch of other
popular ULs, like QWERTY/Dvorak and Beta/VHS, but I guess those were in
the area of commerce that they know something about. In politics it
seems they get snookered into believing what they want just like
everybody else.
Regards
Bob Hiebert
Grinch wrote:
>
> Last Friday's Wall Street Journal carries a major Op-Ed piece presenting
> as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
> populist political parable.
<snip>
> The Journal's editors have been notably tough on a bunch of other
> popular ULs, like QWERTY/Dvorak and Beta/VHS, but I guess those were in
> the area of commerce that they know something about. In politics it
> seems they get snookered into believing what they want just like
> everybody else.
This wasn't written by the WSJ editors. It was a guest commentary with
the following attached to it "By David Schoenbrod, a professor at New
York Law School and an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute."
The WSJ invites a wide variety of sources for "commentary" and then
gleefully publishes letters to the editors which fillet the
commentators. In extreme cases, the editors have been known to publish a
counter-point guest commentary with just a few days. In very very
extreme cases, I've seen up to two pages dedicated to providing a series
of pro and con position pieces, though this is usually reserved for
economic issues.
Large volumes of letters could bring this issue to a critical mass that
would entice the editors to consider rebuttal commentary. I'm sure any
number of regular readers would stand a reasonable chance of getting a
rebuttal published. Given the history of "false history" pieces, this
would be even more likely.
I say you all should go for it.
Bob Hiebert
Caren Weiner Campbell
>
> Last Friday's Wall Street Journal carries a major Op-Ed piece presenting
> as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
> Cowardly Lion, William Jennings Bryan; the Wicked Witches of East &
> West, the evil moneyed interests; the yellow brick road, the gold
> standard; the munchkins, America's "little people", etc. & so on.)
But what's the allegorical significance of the Pink Floyd soundtrack?
--
Caren Weiner Campbell | carrie...@mindspring.com
Writer and editor | Phone: 212-807-1836
NYC, USA | Fax: 212-504-8012
Grinch
>Grinch wrote:
>>
>> Last Friday's Wall Street Journal carries a major Op-Ed piece presenting
>> as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
>> populist political parable.
><snip>
>> The Journal's editors have been notably tough on a bunch of other
>> popular ULs, like QWERTY/Dvorak and Beta/VHS, but I guess those were in
>> the area of commerce that they know something about. In politics it
>> seems they get snookered into believing what they want just like
>> everybody else.
>This wasn't written by the WSJ editors.
Well, I said it was an op-ed piece.
> It was a guest commentary with
>the following attached to it "By David Schoenbrod, a professor at New
>York Law School and an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute."
Cato is even tougher than the Journal on economics-related ULs,
QWERTY/Dvorak and Beta/VHS in particular, and on many political ones
too. Just check its Web site.
The point remains that even professed skeptics are prone to be seduced
by ULs they'd like to believe.
>The WSJ invites a wide variety of sources for "commentary" and then
>gleefully publishes letters to the editors which fillet the
>commentators. In extreme cases, the editors have been known to publish a
>counter-point guest commentary with just a few days. In very very
>extreme cases, I've seen up to two pages dedicated to providing a series
>of pro and con position pieces, though this is usually reserved for
>economic issues.
As an editor myself I can give the opinion that it's one thing to
publish controversial opinion pieces to 'kick up a dust', and quite
another to print things that are false as if they are true.
Editors are supposed to edit, not fall for ULs hook, line and sinker.
In this case the editors could have published Schoenbrod's piece and
done their job by adding a few qualifiers pointing out the
hypothetical nature of the "parable". The Oz story could still have
been used very well to make Schoenbrod's political point, whatever its
worth -- just as the original version of the UL was used very
effectively to make another political point, despite its lack of a
factual basis. With just a little rewriting the piece could have been
effective and accurate. That's what editing is supposed to be about.
Heck, if Schoenbrod actually has any real evidence that the original
story was changed in the movie script for political purposes, the
Journal should have printed that for its news value.
Perhaps the silver slippers in the book were changed to ruby -- red --
in the movie due to screenwriter Harburg's socialist leanings?
>Large volumes of letters could bring this issue to a critical mass that
>would entice the editors to consider rebuttal commentary. I'm sure any
>number of regular readers would stand a reasonable chance of getting a
>rebuttal published. Given the history of "false history" pieces, this
>would be even more likely.
>I say you all should go for it.
>Bob Hiebert
Of course we editors are human beings, so we do fall for ULs like
everyone else. When we make a mistake we should own up to it, but we
don't see any need flagellate ourselves. Printing a couple of
corrective letters to the editor is sufficient.
I'll be interested to see the response, if any, this piece produces,
and whether any corrective letters appear.
xyzzy...@my-dejanews.com
> Grinch wrote:
> >
> > Last Friday's Wall Street Journal carries a major Op-Ed piece presenting
> > as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
> > Cowardly Lion, William Jennings Bryan; the Wicked Witches of East &
> > West, the evil moneyed interests; the yellow brick road, the gold
> > standard; the munchkins, America's "little people", etc. & so on.)
Caren Weiner Campbell <carrie...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> But what's the allegorical significance of the Pink Floyd soundtrack?
>
And did they really use Jell-O powder to color that horse? What does it all
MEAN???
mutantdog
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Leesa
<bob.h...@worldnet.att.net> took pen in hand and scribed:
>Grinch wrote:
>>
>> Last Friday's Wall Street Journal carries a major Op-Ed piece presenting
>> as unquestioned fact the story of how the Wizard of Oz was written as a
>> populist political parable.
>
>
>> The Journal's editors have been notably tough on a bunch of other
>> popular ULs, like QWERTY/Dvorak and Beta/VHS, but I guess those were in
>> the area of commerce that they know something about. In politics it
>> seems they get snookered into believing what they want just like
>> everybody else.
>
>the following attached to it "By David Schoenbrod, a professor at New
>York Law School and an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute."
In a Comparative Politics class which I was fortunate enough to take
about a year or two ago, the professor had us watch the movie, and she
mentioned the theory afterwards. I am very fuzzy on the details,
however, she did say that she had a book or an article (from The
Nation???) on the subject in her office. I remember thinking the
theory was interesting. In an Amazon search, I came up with the
following titles:
Nathanson, Paul. "Over the Rainbow: The Wizard of Oz as a
Secular Myth of America." (McGill Studies in the History of
Religions). ISBN: 0791407101.
Rahn. "The Wizard of Oz." (Twayne's Masterwork Studies
[Paper], No. 167). ISBN: 0805786449.
Earle, Neal. "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz in American Popular
Culture: Uneasy in Eden." ISBN: 0773494065.
Is anyone familiar with these books? I would like to find the book or
article (from the scholarly journal, not the WSJ) that articulates
this theory.
Leesa
D.P. Roberts
>standard; the munchkins, America's "little people", etc. & so on.)
And because the evil moneyed interests siphoned so much out of the
pockets of the "little people" one of them actually hanged himself.
You can see it in the movie, right around the time where the Dorothy
confronts the Witch on the roof of the house. Look very carefully in
the background. That segment represents where the Little Person is
figuratively flipping off the Evil Moneyed Interest by taking the
ultimate step.
D.P. "Or maybe it was a kind of stork bird flapping around" Roberts
Grinch
>In a Comparative Politics class which I was fortunate enough to take
>about a year or two ago, the professor had us watch the movie, and she
>mentioned the theory afterwards. I am very fuzzy on the details,
>however, she did say that she had a book or an article (from The
>Nation???) on the subject in her office. I remember thinking the
>theory was interesting. In an Amazon search, I came up with the
>following titles:
<snip>
This myth is still being taught in college, eh?
> I would like to find the book or
>article (from the scholarly journal, not the WSJ) that articulates
>this theory.
>Leesa
Did you see the original post and follow the links in it? Here they
are again...
>For anyone not familiar with the "Oz as Parable" idea who'd like a
>lively presentation of it with colorful illustrations, here:
>http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/dbj5/oz.html
>And for the boring, academic, plain-text debunking:
>ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/t/tiktok/oz/parable.txt
Follow the links, see the sources listed at the end of each.
Note that the latter, being a scholarly paper, gives a much fuller
story and is much better sourced.
Regards
Carlos Froggy May
: And because the evil moneyed interests siphoned so much out of the
^^^^^^^
: pockets of the "little people" one of them actually hanged himself.
: You can see it in the movie, right around the time where the Dorothy
: confronts the Witch on the roof of the house. Look very carefully in
: the background. That segment represents where the Little Person is
: figuratively flipping off the Evil Moneyed Interest by taking the
^^^^^^^
: ultimate step.
YM "Monkeyed". HTH.
-- And Your Little Frog Too
* Fro...@neosoft.com ** "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs] *
http://www.angelfire.com/la/carlosmay/
Richard Brandt
> But, it says, "this message was uncongenial to E.Y. Harburg, the
> socialist New Dealer who had the most to do with scripting the movie.
> The movie makes the Wizard a force for good. . . He gives, however
> indirectly, what the New Deal promised the American people -- brains,
> heart and courage. The Wizard's farewell address was readily
> identifiable to the audiences of 1939 with the style of Franklin
> Roosevelt".
I'd just like to see the WSJ's source for Yip Harburg, pinko or
no, having "the most to do" with writing the movie, other than
providing the lyrics for the songs. The IMDB lists him as one
of 13 uncredited contributors to the script (including Ogden Nash
and Herman J. Mankiewicz); this is in addition to the three
writers who shared screen credit.
Richard "'Red' Slippers? Hmmmmmm" Brandt
--
== Richard Brandt is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8720/ ==
"I'm sorry, but nit-picky is definitely hyphenated."--Chris Malme
Dan Hartung
<af...@rgfn.epcc.edu> wrote:
>Richard "'Red' Slippers? Hmmmmmm" Brandt
Yup. But and isn't "Wicked Witch of the West" an obvious
anti-imperialist reference?
Dan "or is that Auntie-Em-Perialist?" Hartung
David H. Siegel
It was vectored to me (Through Father) as a globo-political parable, not
as an American one:
Lion:England (Powerful+Lion as symbol/cowardly and losing power)
Tin Man:Germany/Prussia(Newly industrialized and powerful, no "Heart")
Scarecrow:France(Stupid and useless)
Dorothy:USA (Naive child who becomes leader)
Toto, the Wizard, and the Witches were all said to be symbols, but I've
forgotten them)
--
David Siegel
dh...@columbia.edu
<Webpage Coming Soonish>
There's a moral somewhere in here. I'm absolutely sure of it.
Bob Hiebert
The Wall Street Journal published a letter to the editor on Thursday,
December 3 by one Karen Healy of Buffalo, New York. It was a brief but
well stated rebuttal of the commentary.
There were a couple of standard debunking facts along with an
interesting twist on the importance of the story's moral of self
reliance. My favorite excerpt:
"Finally, while Yip Harburg ("who had the most to do with scripting the
movie") may have been (horrors) a democratic New Dealer, I can't believe
that any child watching the movie would see the Wizard as a force for
good. He is a completely ineffectual humbug of a man who sends our
heroes into near death at the Wicked Witch's castle and then cannot even
bring Dorothy home in his balloon."
Bob Hiebert
Emily Harrison Kelly
>
>The Wall Street Journal published a letter to the editor on Thursday,
>December 3 by one Karen Healy of Buffalo, New York.
>
>good. He is a completely ineffectual humbug of a man who sends our
>heroes into near death at the Wicked Witch's castle and then cannot even
>bring Dorothy home in his balloon."
Just to strengthen this point, if the symbolism had been intended (that
the Wizard provided the things promised by the New Deal), I have to wonder
why they altered that part of the story from the book's original, where
the Wizard really does give the Scarecrow, Tin Man and Cowardly Lion brains,
a heart and courage, respectively, and makes a successful balloon from
scratch, rather than merely reusing the one he arrived in.
Emily "and Glinda's supposed to be from the South, dammit" Kelly
--
Emily Harrison Kelly "Being near death is like being near Worcester.
eke...@world.std.com You're either there or you're not.
--Rector Truman Welch on the afterlife
For the AFU FAQ and Archives: http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Beau Bowen
>
> Bob Hiebert <bob.h...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >The Wall Street Journal published a letter to the editor on Thursday,
> >December 3 by one Karen Healy of Buffalo, New York.
> >
> [the Wizard]
> >good. He is a completely ineffectual humbug of a man who sends our
> >heroes into near death at the Wicked Witch's castle and then cannot even
> >bring Dorothy home in his balloon."
>
> Just to strengthen this point, if the symbolism had been intended (that
> the Wizard provided the things promised by the New Deal), I have to wonder
> why they altered that part of the story from the book's original, where
> the Wizard really does give the Scarecrow, Tin Man and Cowardly Lion brains,
> a heart and courage, respectively, and makes a successful balloon from
> scratch, rather than merely reusing the one he arrived in.
>
> Emily "and Glinda's supposed to be from the South, dammit" Kelly
Native Americans are protesting the Baum Conference that is being put on
by the town of Aberdeen, ND, where he edited the local newspaper. He
published some particularly hideous anti-Indian editorials after the
Massacre of Wounded Knee in 1890.
But for some strange reason the townsfolks think he was a nice guy because
he wrote a children's book.
It's amazing to me how many works of political satire (Gulliver's Travels
also leaps to mind, as does Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn), have been handed
over to the kids as fun fairytales while the adults remain oblivious to the
messages being sent.
Beau
Beau Bowen
> > Emily "and Glinda's supposed to be from the South, dammit" Kelly
>
> Native Americans are protesting the Baum Conference that is being put on
> by the town of Aberdeen, ND, where he edited the local newspaper. He
> published some particularly hideous anti-Indian editorials after the
> Massacre of Wounded Knee in 1890.
>
Okay, I dug up the URL:
http://www.dickshovel.com/oz.html
Excerpt:
"He twice wrote editorials calling for the extermination of the entire Sioux
Nations. Many historian believe that it was newspaper-induced hysteria
that led to the Wounded Knee Massacre."
Beau
James Wallis
writes
>It's amazing to me how many works of political satire (Gulliver's Travels
>also leaps to mind, as does Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn), have been handed
>over to the kids as fun fairytales while the adults remain oblivious to the
>messages being sent.
You can add the German "Till Eulenspiegel" (originally published in
1515) to that list: it's one of the most scatological books I've ever
read, yet is best known today in a version for children. "The Travels
and Surprising Adventures of Baron Munchausen" also fits.
What all these books have in common is their satirical take on society,
and their demotion to children's literature would seem to be a way of
defusing the potentially dangerous or unpleasant messages in them. But
I'm not enough of a conspiracy theorist to suggest that an
anthropomorphised Society or any element within it is doing this on
purpose.
--
James Wallis (ja...@erstwhile.demon.co.uk)
"There is no such thing as adventure. There's no such thing as romance.
There's only trouble and desire" -- from Simple Men, a Hal Hartley film
Emily Harrison Kelly
[seguing from Wizard of Oz]
>It's amazing to me how many works of political satire (Gulliver's Travels
>also leaps to mind, as does Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn), have been handed
>over to the kids as fun fairytales while the adults remain oblivious to the
>messages being sent.
Actually, it's the adults who seem to be interpreting all these messages
from the Wizard of Oz. We still don't have any evidence suggesting Baum
intended all these different symbolisms, do we? Your segue draws on an
assumption that's unfounded.
Emily "and Gulliver, at least, is usually expurgated
pretty heavily before it's handed to kids" Kelly
--
Emily Harrison Kelly "Maybe Christmas is a double-edged sword with a
eke...@world.std.com vibrating Stim-U-Luxe clitoral knob."
--Rob McGee
For the AFU FAQ: http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/
D. A. Kelly
Harrison Kelly) wrote:
> Emily "and Gulliver, at least, is usually expurgated pretty heavily
before it's handed to kids" Kelly
Well, you wouldn't want a little kid reading some of the things in the
Houyhnhnm section!
Diane "though my kid might wind up that obsessed with horses..." Kelly
Lord Jubjub
>
> It's amazing to me how many works of political satire (Gulliver's Travels
> also leaps to mind, as does Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn), have been handed
> over to the kids as fun fairytales while the adults remain oblivious to the
> messages being sent.
I've seen "Animal Farm" referred to as a children's story. Makes me think
some people label stories without ever bothering to read them.
--
Lord Jubjub, Ruler of the Jabbewocky
Mike Holmans
[re the Houhynhms]
>
>Diane "though my kid might wind up that obsessed with horses..." Kelly
No, Lizz. We do not need to hear about George and Pixel again.
Mike "just tell the Sheddi" Holmans
El Sig, having dusted off the cold electrons some killjoy spilt
everywhere, is not prepared to admit to being obsessed with anything -
which sucks, he said.
--
I prefer Yorkshire terriers myself, deep fried in a good beer batter.
- Wibble
Read lotsa fine stuff, including the FAQ, at http://www.urbanlegends.com
JasCJones
>It's amazing to me how many works of political satire (Gulliver's Travels
>also leaps to mind, as does Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn), have been handed
>over to the kids as fun fairytales while the adults remain oblivious to the
>messages being sent.
My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
Jim "Darn good economics, too" Jones
AOL made a profit last quarter - JasC...@aol.common.org
Alex Elliott
JasCJones <jasc...@aol.common.org> wrote:
>
>My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
I was unaware that Jonathan Swift had used that particular pseudonym.
I've spotted "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book"[1] in children's sections before.
Alex "Oops" Elliott
[1] For those who aren't familiar with this book, it's written by Shel
Silversein and is an amusing parody of a children's book, but not really
appropriate for children to actually read. It's written as an alphabet
book, but with the letters in the wrong order and it has entries like
(paraphrased from memory), "K is for Kidnapper. The kidnapper has a
nice car. If you get in the kidnapper's car, maybe he'll give you some
candy."
David H. Siegel
> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
Pope? Are you sure about that?
--
David "I always thought it was by Swift, myself. Perhaps I was wrong."
Bruce Tindall
>My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
Mine is "A Modest Troll" by James C. Jones.
B "The proper study of mankind is cannibalism" T
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Lizz Holmans
>JasCJones wrote:
>
>> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
>
>
James, you may reel them in.
Lizz 'But I'm not sure about the Rape of the Hesperus' Holmans
--
Visit http://www.urbanlegends.com
Crash
<trim>
> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
>
Is my memory failing? Wasn't that Swift?
--
Crash 'no famine around here boss,' Johnson
Richard Brandt
> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
What, no keywords or anything?
Richard "'Cry Rape' is the next thread over" Brandt
--
== Richard Brandt is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8720/ ==
"Face it, we're just an ant farm with beepers." -- Dennis Miller
JoAnne Schmitz
>In article <19981217010856...@ng-ce1.aol.com>,
>JasCJones <jasc...@aol.common.org> wrote:
>>
>>My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
>
>I was unaware that Jonathan Swift had used that particular pseudonym.
>
>I've spotted "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book"[1] in children's sections before.
Last time I went to a Waldenbooks, I saw _Satanic Verses_ shelved next to the
Anton La Vey.
JoAnne "Joe, is it okay to refer to our subscribers as readers?" Schmitz
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Bruce Tindall
>>I've spotted "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book"[1] in children's sections before.
>
>Last time I went to a Waldenbooks, I saw _Satanic Verses_ shelved next to the
>Anton La Vey.
My local gas-station-convenience-store-and-video-rental shelved
John Huston's "The Dead" with the horror movies.
B "although, come to think of it, there is a scene in which
some legs, breasts, and other body parts get sliced up" T
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Bruce Tindall
>Is my memory failing? Wasn't that Swift?
No, it wasn't. I hate to break this to you, but it's been
failing slowly for quite a while now.
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
David Hatunen
Lizz Holmans <di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk.DELETE> wrote:
>David H. Siegel <dh...@columbia.edu> writes
>>
>>> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by
>>> Alexander Pope.
>>
>>
>
>James, you may reel them in.
>
>Lizz 'But I'm not sure about the Rape of the Hesperus' Holmans
Fear not, it's a lock.
Dave "splitting hairs" Hatunen
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California: *
* where San Francisco meets The Peninsula *
******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> My local gas-station-convenience-store-and-video-rental shelved
> John Huston's "The Dead" with the horror movies.
Not quite in the same category, but for thirty years we have shelved
Robert Welch's Black Book right next to Mao's Red Book. On a
really quiet night you can faintly hear the two arguing with each other.
Charles Wm. "la rouge e la noir" Dimmick
--
http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/dimmick.html
"And some rin up hill and down dale,
knapping the chucky stanes to pieces wi'
hammers, like sae mony road-makers run
daft -- they say it is to see how the
warld was made!"
JasCJones
>JasCJones <jasc...@aol.common.org> wrote:
>>
>>My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander
>Pope.
>
>I was unaware that Jonathan Swift had used that particular pseudonym.
Very good Alex. Dumb mistake here, and thanks to you, I am unlikely to
make it again. It's what happens when I try to remeber which author
was which, all of them a blur from reading to much at the same time.
Now then, do you think calling "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathan Swift a nice
children's book meshed with the spirit of the thread?
Jim "But I remember you" Jones
JasCJones
>JasCJones wrote:
>
>> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander
>Pope.
>
>Pope? Are you sure about that?
>
>
I am sure it is not. Jim made a mistake. Flying quadraplegic incandescent
whoopie. It was Swift. Jonathan Swift.
Jim "He says indiscriminately" Jones
JasCJones
>JasCJones <jasc...@aol.common.org> wrote:
>>My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander
>Pope.
>
>Mine is "A Modest Troll" by James C. Jones.
>
>B "The proper study of mankind is cannibalism" T
I'm not that smart. Isn't this the point where I start bragging about my
test scores? Oh damn, there's this hook in my finger.
Jim "Let's not get all steamed up about it" Jones
JasCJones
>JasCJones wrote:
><trim>
>> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander
>Pope.
>>
>> Jim "Darn good economics, too" Jones
>
>Is my memory failing? Wasn't that Swift?
>
>--
>Crash 'no famine around here boss,' Johnson
No problem with your memory. And you can't say mine is failing [1] either. Was
thinking more about the subject and was shamefully sloppy regarding the author.
Jim "Better than bad table manners, don't you think?" Jones
[1] It can be argued I never had a memory. A lot of things can be argued. It
can be argued, for instance, that our prez mistook the meaning of high office.
But that would be a low blow.
JasCJones
>David H. Siegel <dh...@columbia.edu> writes
>>JasCJones wrote:
>>
>>> My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander
>Pope.
>>
>>Pope? Are you sure about that?
>>
>
>James, you may reel them in.
>
>Lizz 'But I'm not sure about the Rape of the Hesperus' Holmans
>
Suddenly, I'm full.
Jim "Let's just be a little foggy about what." Jones
mister
: >
: >My favorite children's story, then, is "A Modest Proposal" by Alexander Pope.
: I was unaware that Jonathan Swift had used that particular pseudonym.
:
: I've spotted "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book"[1] in children's sections before.
:
: Alex "Oops" Elliott
:
: [1] For those who aren't familiar with this book, it's written by Shel
: Silversein and is an amusing parody of a children's book, but not really
: appropriate for children to actually read. It's written as an alphabet
: book, but with the letters in the wrong order and it has entries like
: (paraphrased from memory), "K is for Kidnapper. The kidnapper has a
: nice car. If you get in the kidnapper's car, maybe he'll give you some
: candy."
Please add to this "Amphigorey", by Edward Gorey. His classic
Alphabet, in rhyme, includes, "A is for Annie, run through with an awl. B
is for Billy, smashed flat in a brawl..."
Brian Jones
> Please add to this "Amphigorey", by Edward Gorey. His classic
> Alphabet, in rhyme, includes, "A is for Annie, run through with an awl. B
> is for Billy, smashed flat in a brawl..."
Very, very nice indeed. You appear to be referring to the book,
collected in the Gorey anthology "Amphigorey," called "The Gashlycrumb
Tinies," which begins, "A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs/B is for
Basil, assaulted by bears..."
I don't intend to flame you, but I do wonder where you came up with
your...er..."quote." It appears to be entirely made up.
Brian "From 9 yards of whole cloth, as it were" Jones
PS for Gorey fans only, here's a neat illustration: the cover of the
latest edition of "Gashlycrumb."
http://www.amazon.com/covers/0/15/100/308/0151003084.l.gif
--
Brian Jones II Samuel 12:7 Carpe Stipes
"Yeah man, I tell ya what you do...man...You just keep that
dang ol' arm straight...put your left hand still...man...Just...
speed it the hell up." --Golfing advice from Boomhauer
John Francis
Brian Jones <brian...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>mister wrote:
>
>> Please add to this "Amphigorey", by Edward Gorey. His classic
>> Alphabet, in rhyme, includes, "A is for Annie, run through with an awl. B
>> is for Billy, smashed flat in a brawl..."
>
>Very, very nice indeed. You appear to be referring to the book,
>collected in the Gorey anthology "Amphigorey," called "The Gashlycrumb
>Tinies," which begins, "A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs/B is for
>Basil, assaulted by bears..."
>
>I don't intend to flame you, but I do wonder where you came up with
>your...er..."quote." It appears to be entirely made up.
Not entirely. Amy & Basil had a couple of friends - Olive & Prue.
Their fates are pretty much as given above.
--
John "Getting The Haunted Tea-Cozy for Christmas" Francis
Nathan Tenny
Brian Jones <brian...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>mister wrote:
>> "A is for Annie, run through with an awl. B is for Billy, smashed flat in
>>a brawl..."
>
>your...er..."quote." It appears to be entirely made up.
Well, it's nearly the O and P Tinies:
O is for Olive run through with an awl
P is for Prue trampled flat in a brawl
---so I expect it's an honest misremembrance.
Yes, I can quote the rest of it. Fortunately I am merciful.
ObUL: F. Edward Gorey is from the UKoGBaNI.
NT
--
Nathan Tenny | Words I carry in my pocket, where they
Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA | breed like white mice.
<nten...@qualcomm.com> | - Lawrence Durrell
JasCJones
>
>In article <36800207...@mindspring.com>,
>Brian Jones <brian...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>mister wrote:
>>> "A is for Annie, run through with an awl. B is for Billy, smashed flat in
>>>a brawl..."
>>
>>I don't intend to flame you, but I do wonder where you came up with
>>your...er..."quote." It appears to be entirely made up.
>
>Well, it's nearly the O and P Tinies:
>
> O is for Olive run through with an awl
> P is for Prue trampled flat in a brawl
>
>---so I expect it's an honest misremembrance.
>
>Yes, I can quote the rest of it. Fortunately I am merciful.
I believe you, but do you think this froup could write one - one letter per
person, er ogre, and have it done in twenty four hours?
Jim "N is for Nancy, drenched in napthol" Jones
Bruce Tindall
>Jim "N is for Nancy, drenched in napthol" Jones
Shouldn't that one begin, "H is for Hans Castorp..."?
B "cough" T
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Madeleine Page
: JasCJones <jasc...@aol.common.org> wrote:
:>Jim "N is for Nancy, drenched in napthol" Jones
: Shouldn't that one begin, "H is for Hans Castorp..."?
It's always Settembrini somewhere on the net.