Look a Gift-horse in the Mouth and Get Your Nose Bitten Off
Bob G.
rail in Florida. He intended to use the money for other infrastructure
projects. A GOP and a Dem State Senator took him to the Florida
Supreme Court and lost, the Governor may refuse the money. In doing so
he just got his nose bitten off. Sec of Transportation La Hood has
said that Congress appropriated the money exclusively for high speed
rail an it may not be diverted to other uses. Either the Governor
accepts the money, I think Friday is the deadline, or it will be given
to another state that will use it for the rail project. The jobs that
nearly two and a half billion dollars would create in Florida will now
be created in another state and the Florida unemployed will remain
unemployed. Nice job, Governor Scott.
Bob G
CharlieB
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnnnnnnn
Bob G.
Still true to form, Charlie; no longer young enough to work you don't
care about those who are.
Bob G
**Dalin**
Is it possible that a high speed rail is not necessary in Florida? Or
once built that the state would be responsible for the upkeep and he
felt it was not affordable?
Dalin
Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.
news:4ca4e9fc-07f8-43ac...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
WAKE UP!
The 2 billion from the feds would have cost Florida tax payers over 10
billion over the ten years of the contract. Too many obligatory strings
attached.
If I were to offer you two hundred bucks but you had to give me a thousand
in order to get it would you think you were getting a good deal?
Freaking MORON! No wonder the national debt is so huge. You idiot liberals
are clueless when it comes to monetary issues.
And, another thing, the two billion has NOTHING to do with the several
millions the state of Florida set aside from STATE FUNDS for the dead
high-speed rail project. Instead of spending it on a boondoggle high speed
rail project the state is now going to spend it on the port of Miami so very
large ships will be able to do commerce there. There will be very large
ships coming because of the Panama Canal project underway.
Thank God for governor Rick Scott.
--
Gregory Hall
CharlieB
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:12:31 -0800 (PST), "Bob G."
>
Or that the governor of Florida knows a bit more about the situation
than a rabid BO supporter who is a substitute teacher.
Charlie
Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.
news:4d784c85...@news.individual.net...
Dalin, I'm a Florida resident and Bob G, as usual, in totally clueless.
The two billion offered by the feds comes with the usual myriad strings
attached. Such things as:
1) construction cost overruns - have you ever seen a govt. project that
didn't have severe cost overruns?
2) operating cost overruns once the project is up and running - there always
are those.
3) large fines for failing to meet this deadline or that
4) Mandatory state subsidizing if the project doesn't run at a profit. (fat
chance of such a project running at a profit - the citizens aren't
interested in high-speed rail rides)
The governor studied the contract the Fed offered and had his accountants go
over it and they determined the 2 billion dollar gift would most likely cost
the state of Florida about 10 billion dollars.
Liberals like Bob G just don't get it. We are BROKE! We can't afford
boondoggles.
--
Gregory Hall
CharlieB
>
> - Show quoted text -
You got your butt handed to you here teach. LOL
Charlie
oh well
"Bob G." <rlloyd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ca4e9fc-07f8-43ac...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Sure was a nice job, especially if it isn't profitable (think Amtrack) and
Florida has to pick up the tab for it then.
oh well......
**Dalin**
I figured it was something like that. I doubt a state would turn down
money for a project if it was beneficial to the state.
Obama just can't quit his spending even if it's a railroad to nowhere.
I'm sure Florida could have used that money to repair its roads and
bridges though. Isn't Obama always saying we should invest in our
infastructure?
Dalin
Marsha
"Bob G." <rlloyd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ca4e9fc-07f8-43ac...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Bonafide
"Bob G." <rlloyd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ca4e9fc-07f8-43ac...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
**********************************
Disneyland has a nice rail system.
Privately built and operated!
Jobs!
Lloyd Bonafide
Bob G.
> Brilliant as always Mr. Hall!
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, Greg and Lloyd at the bottom of the
Rabbit Hole.
Bob G
Jean B.
system and better public transportation, even if that has to be
subsidized for some period of time. We just cannot continue to
drive our own chariots everywhere in the future.
--
Jean B.
ylem
> "Bob G." <rlloydgeo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Infrastructural improvements produce dividends for businesses that
rely on transportation and must absorb the costs. Infrastructural
programs do not have to produce a direct profit ... that isn't the
idea. Wait until petrol hits $5 a gallon and stays there ... high
speed rail will start to look like a pretty cost efficient
alternative. But you guys don't think ahead.
Why is it that Republicans have no business sense at all?
The answer is simple ... use the money that Florida rejects in states
more forward looking. If some retarded US states refuse to cooperated
with an inter-continental high speed rail system ... open negotiations
with Canada and Mexico to go around them and let those states wither
on the vine until they grow some sense.
Ylem
CharlieB
>
> - Show quoted text -
You should run for president. Your ideas are goofyer that BO's.
Charlie
ylem
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 16:06:01 -0500, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
>
>
>
> >"**Dalin**" <l...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
Infrastructural improvements are not "boondoggles". And we'd be a lot
less broke if we would dump the Bush tax cuts. You and your ilk don't
"get it". There can be no civilization without taxation. (Basic
economics.)
> I figured it was something like that. I doubt a state would turn down
> money for a project if it was beneficial to the state.
Beneficial for whom ... the vested interests that oppose modernizing
our transportation system?
> Obama just can't quit his spending even if it's a railroad to nowhere.
Baloney!
> I'm sure Florida could have used that money to repair its roads and
> bridges though. Isn't Obama always saying we should invest in our
> infastructure?
>
> Dalin
Send the money to California, Oregon, and Washington states. Let the
backward states wither.
Ylem
ylem
> The people of Fl also voted on it"Bob G." <rlloydgeo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The Republicans don't really care about public opinion ... they are
owned outright by vested interest groups and the right-wing "destroy
government" cult.
Ylem
ylem
> No. I think we have to have foresight. We NEED a better rail
> system and better public transportation, even if that has to be
> subsidized for some period of time. We just cannot continue to
> drive our own chariots everywhere in the future.
> --
> Jean B.
One thing is certain - the Republican Death Cult doesn't care about
the future. We definitely do NEED to create an efficient rail
system ... I saw a chart last night on Bill Maher's show that shows
the USA 22nd in infrastructure. (I'll have to research that ... for
confirmation.) It's like being 37th in health care ... they simply do
not love our country enough to want to see us prosper. Their lizard-
brained greed might well be our downfall.
As for the personal automobile; like the vast majority of Americans, I
love my vehicles, I love the convenience ... but we can innovate
better technologies in personal that make them more environmentally
friendly and fuel efficient. As it stands, driving in any major city
is a hassle ... but it doesn't have to be so.
Ylem (looking at motor-bikes)
ylem
Too old and gnarly-looking ... and I might invade Texas.
Ylem
Marsha
"ylem" <primord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44aded90-b6c4-443f...@k10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
oh well
Ylem
**|**
I don't think anyone disagrees with the assertion that all infrastructure
must, from time to time, be maintained, repaired, improved, upgraded, etc.
etc. I mainly question the timing, with the economy, not only here but
worldwide, in dissaray and confusion, is now the time to be investing in new
technologies and ideas or would this time and treasure be better invested in
stability and a more gradual development rather than this.
This high speed rail line would run roughly parrallel to Interstate 4 and
considering your schedule would have to be adjusted to leave and arrive when
the railway line wants you to rather than when you want to. In addition you
would have to arrive at the station some time before you get underway, when
you arrive you would have to arrange for transportation, move luggage around
then drive from the station to your destination, I don't see it being
quicker and very possibly for a trip of less than 100 miles, longer and less
convient. In my opinion the Feds are pretty inferior at running a railroad
line, as I mentioned above, Amtrack comes to mind.
And BTW Ylem (I often wonder what that means or stands for), you are the
most arrogant and egotistical individual I have associated with. When
someone disagrees with you in any manner you resort to the most evil,
derogatory name calling imaginable. Very little constructive comes from
your post, and I don't respond to them unless it might help clarify
something for others. (Although you do use a lotta big words and if I were
interested enough I'd have to go to the dictionary a lot.)
oh well......
Jean B.
degree, that is because public transportation is not a viable
option in all areas. MY neck of the woods is better than much of
the country in that regard too.
I didn't have a car until I was 42. I didn't need one when I
could walk a few miles and get to most things I needed, or walk
somewhat less to get on a bus or train. In the burbs, depending
on where one is, public transportation is possible if one is
reasonably near a bus route or commuter rail. At my the old
house, it is a hike to the bus route, but doable. It is a longer
hike to a bus terminal, but doable if the weather isn't hideous.
Those buses don't run in the night, and run poorly or not at all
on the weekends though. So one has to bike or drive to the train
station in Cambridge.
At the new house, there seems to be some bus service. I am not
sure where it goes or whether it links to anything useful. There
is a commuter rail station within reasonable driving distance.
Anyway... The problem increases as one gets farther from the city
(not just here but in most places), and some cities don't have
viable public transportation at all. And then there are the
exurbs and rural areas. YOU know all of this....
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
be civil.) And egotistical? I sure don't see that.
I see infrastructure creating jobs. Ditto conservation and things
that would benefit the planet.
--
Jean B.
Joan F (MI)
Luddites.
Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.
news:E9OdnZ-BSakEHu_Q...@giganews.com...
> I'm amazed that some of the people here even use computers, they are such
> Luddites.
Some of us are wise; but others of us are otherwise.
--
Gregory Hall
Joan F (MI)
give the economy the boost it needs. This project will create a new
manufacturing industry in the U.S. which is badly needed to replace the jobs
that have gone away to other countries. If we wait for a slow recovery to
give us money in hand, we will have missed the ground floor and will be
importing instead of manufacturing. I think that rail travel will be very
popular, getting to a terminal will be easier than with air travel as you
don't need the buffer space an airport requires. Once the infrastructure is
in place, the operating costs are much lower. And the security for
passengers will never be as invasive, planes by their very nature are a more
attractive target for terrorists.
As for ylem's name, Google is your friend.
normak
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:8tfcrb...@mid.individual.net...
I'm going to side-step here, but... I was amazed, when in Boston, at how
easy it is to get around by foot or public transportation. We even took a
bus from the China Town in Boston to the NYC China Town. Fr there, of
course, the public transportation is great. I like to walk in certain
areas. One day I walked from the UN Building to the MOMa, and then to the
Empire State Building.
Of course, I love to visit large cities, but do like my more rural home area
to come home to.
NormaK
Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.
news:4goe5h....@news.alt.net...
> Brilliant as always Mr. Hall!
>
It takes one to know one. LOL!
--
Gregory Hall
Bob G.
wrote:
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum down the rabbit hole.
Bob G
ylem
> oh well wrote:
> Huh? Look at the flak he receives. (Of course, I wish all would
> be civil.) And egotistical? I sure don't see that.
Water off a duck's back ... it's an attempted distraction
> I see infrastructure creating jobs. Ditto conservation and things
> that would benefit the planet.
>
> --
> Jean B.
They will complain that mass transit is a government-sponsored job
creation program. So what? So was nearly every dam, railroad, sewer
and water system, etc., in the entire country! So is almost the
entire defense budget and all government subsidies to Big Biz and Big
Energy.
We already know, from direct experience, that Republicans, once in
office, dramatically increase the debt. They can't argue against that
because it's the truth.
We also know that capital hoarding by that tiny percent who profited
from Republican policies, policies which transferred wealth from the
middle class to the ultra rich ... that capital hoarding of illegally
gotten wealth is the reason the country is stuck in an economic
quagmire.
No wonder they'd rather talk about me.
LOL!
Ylem
CharlieB
Do you mean you weak ego? Go suck you thumb.
Fool.
Charlie
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Heh! So what if they are government-created jobs. They would be
a win-win-win-win situatiob. How can anybody oppose something
that would create jobs, boost the economy, modernize our
infrastructure, and decrease pollution/stress on our poor planet?
Might was well also throw in the possibility of producing things
that other countries would like to buy. (Right now, it looks like
we just want to play catch-up. That hasn't worked too well in the
past. Think, for example, of the US auto industry.)
--
Jean B.
Jan
wrote:
>Florida Governor Scott refused over 2 billion dollars for high speed
>rail in Florida. He intended to use the money for other infrastructure
>projects. A GOP and a Dem State Senator took him to the Florida
>Supreme Court and lost, the Governor may refuse the money. In doing so
>he just got his nose bitten off. Sec of Transportation La Hood has
>said that Congress appropriated the money exclusively for high speed
>rail an it may not be diverted to other uses. Either the Governor
>accepts the money, I think Friday is the deadline, or it will be given
>to another state that will use it for the rail project. The jobs that
>nearly two and a half billion dollars would create in Florida will now
>be created in another state and the Florida unemployed will remain
>unemployed. Nice job, Governor Scott.
>
>Bob G
What cities and the distances are involved in this idea Bob?
Jan
"If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined"
DittyDu...@webtv.net
rail would be helpful, as there are lots of stops along the way.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
don't need it. Cross and cross the panhandle, you don't need it. They
have a highway down one side of the peninsula, I think The opposite
side hway is stooped every ten feet with pedestrian crossings. The
middle is all swamp, with gators and snakes and protected wildlife.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
have to be reprogrammed every time the power goes off. It would be so
nice just to have a clock that you plug it in and it works. No
progtamming. I don't want it to answer the phone and the door and tell
time around the world, and turn on the coffee pot or automatically order
pizza for supper. Just plug it in and let it tell time, with no further
instructions in the booklet. Not to mention the caveats that are
written in such fine print you miss them.
HOw about a camera that just takes pictures? HOw abouty a TV that
just responds to the clicker. They charge us for all the stuff they
built in that a device witll do, that we never use. Or use so seldom
we have to hunt up the instructions on how to make it work.
BLAH
Jean B.
timers. And I have been reverting to wind-up bedside clocks. The
latter was before the batteries started dying in a couple of
months. And last time I was looking at some, I noticed that ONE
battery of this short-lived type cost ca $12! No thank you. How
did we become convinced that we need all of these battery/electric
devices? To the degree that I can find devices that don't require
such power sources, I am replacing the newer ones.--Jean B.
Joan F (MI)
the country.
Jan
<jjf...@removethisameritech.net> wrote:
>It would connect with the HS rail in other states so you could zoom across
>the country.
From where to where? You don't get much track for two billion.
Jan
>
>DittyDu...@webtv.net wrote:
>| Where would a high speed rail go? cross and cross the peninsula, you
>| don't need it. Cross and cross the panhandle, you don't need it.
>| They have a highway down one side of the peninsula, I think The
>| opposite side hway is stooped every ten feet with pedestrian
>| crossings. The middle is all swamp, with gators and snakes and
>| protected wildlife.
>
Bob G.
>
> What cities and the distances are involved in this idea Bob?
>
> Jan
> "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined"
This particular segment is only 84 miles to link Tampa and Orlando.
When my wife and I were in France a few years ago we took high speed
rail from London to Paris and then to Strasbourg. The time between
Paris and Strasbourg was only a fraction of what it was when I was
there in the early 70S. I would have preferred, as a tourist, the old
scenic rail routes with the wagon-lits and many stops. The sunken
tracks, I suppose to dampen the noise, meant no scenery.
Bob G
Jan
wrote:
>On Mar 5, 9:21 pm, Jan <johnr...@bell.net> wrote:
Based on numbers I've seen from the UK where a high speed rail link is being
proposed for a distance of about 121 miles, the cost is estimated at 17 billion
pounds, which equates to approx. 25 billion dollars. As this is close to the
distance proposed in Florida, it seems to me that as the state was only offered
2 billion, they made a wise decision in rejecting the idea.
Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.
news:c33an6l506qetvf5q...@4ax.com...
Right you are, Jan. Thank you for the proof of how expensive it would really
be. How the taxpayer has a friend in the Republican governor. So far nobody
has shown that high-speed rail can actually run at a profit - every existing
system is subsidized by taxpayers or it would quickly go bankrupt.
--
Gregory Hall
DittyDu...@webtv.net
your car will get stuck in the sand. My guesss is that the water
table is very high, too. Coastal areas are subject to hurricane damage.
Seems to me that to go from Memphis to the east coast, Amtrack takes you
to NOLa, where the track connects with an eastbound ( westbound)
track that goes along the coast to a north / south bound track that
goes up and down the east coast. east of the mountain chain.
Or a track that goes south down the east side of the Florida peninsula
to Miami.
don't recall , in detail, as I never used it. autos are more
convenient. Trains are subject to passenger counts for scheduling.
I would guess that the Florida crops are moved by trucks. When the
strawberries come in, a truck would be expedient. seems to me.
Joan F (MI)
transportation, trucks, planes, etc. One way that cargo is transported
efficiently is by loading truck trailers onto trains. They get loaded at
the producer end, driven to the rail station, detached, then unloaded at the
other end where a truck tractor hooks up and pulls them to their
destination. Minimizes loading/unloading but provides the cheap transport
costs of rail.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
everytime a train stops us at th crossing. Seems that with the produce,
what we get from Florida is much fressher than what we get for
California. I just don't buy California strawberries. They are always
green when picked. It is only 8 hours from here to Orlando by truck
refr. And they don't have to wait for a train. The best strawberries
are the ones grown here, and vine ripened. We even have some "pick your
own" farms that ppl with lots of kids love. blake
Bob G.
>
> Based on numbers I've seen from the UK where a high speed rail link is being
> proposed for a distance of about 121 miles, the cost is estimated at 17 billion
> pounds, which equates to approx. 25 billion dollars. As this is close to the
> distance proposed in Florida, it seems to me that as the state was only offered
> 2 billion, they made a wise decision in rejecting the idea.
>
they have to spend extra billions in acquiring the right-of-way
through eminent domain?
Bob G
Jan
wrote:
>On Mar 7, 9:54�am, Jan <johnr...@bell.net> wrote:
I'm not sure. I think it's new all the way, but could be incorporating some
existing track. Either way, it's not cheap and to replace existing rails means
the system is shut down for a considerable time.