[I]Brasso and the credit crunch
GaryN
myself.
"Shine up your buckles with Brasso,
Only three ha'pennies a tin.
You can buy it or nick it from Woolies,
But make sure you rub it well in"
Non-UKians may not be familiar with this old childrens song but I suppose
we'll have to rewrite it for the next generation.
Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1] is
gone?
gary
[1]For them wot don't know "Woolies" is/was the affectionate name for
Woolworths - a UK general store that's been around forever (but not any
more).
--
"We're just human; and we weren't as clever as we thought we were when we
needed to be.
That will be the epitaph on the gravestone of the human race"
Alistair Reynolds from 'House of Suns' (paraphrased)
Geoff
"GaryN" <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B9C7DB077675g...@212.23.3.119...
Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that Woolies came from the USofAmerkia originally.
Although the first UK store was opened almost 100 yrs ago in Liverpool.
Which probably explains the 'nick it' line from your poem...which I must
admit I'd never heard before.
Geoff
-Feeling vaguely old and increasingly bemused-
Bonzai Kitten
> "GaryN" <g...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
We still have Woolies in Oz. In fact, all the Safeways just turned
into Woolies too. Possibly it has something to so with blackholes.
Lizzy Taylor
> I found a bottle of Brasso under the SO's sink this morning and thought to
> myself.
>
> "Shine up your buckles with Brasso,
> Only three ha'pennies a tin.
> You can buy it or nick it from Woolies,
> But make sure you rub it well in"
>
> Non-UKians may not be familiar with this old childrens song but I suppose
> we'll have to rewrite it for the next generation.
>
> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1] is
> gone?
Tesco? Morries (or Morrisons)?
Lizzy
Daibhid Ceanaideach
>
> "GaryN" <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B9C7DB077675g...@212.23.3.119...
>>I found a bottle of Brasso under the SO's sink this morning and
>>thought to
>> myself.
>>
>> "Shine up your buckles with Brasso,
>> Only three ha'pennies a tin.
>> You can buy it or nick it from Woolies,
>> But make sure you rub it well in"
>>
>> Non-UKians may not be familiar with this old childrens song but I
>> suppose we'll have to rewrite it for the next generation.
>>
>> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1]
>> is gone?
>>
>> gary
>>
>> [1]For them wot don't know "Woolies" is/was the affectionate name for
>> Woolworths - a UK general store that's been around forever (but not
>> any more).
> Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that Woolies came from the USofAmerkia
> originally.
Yep, F.W.Woolworths and Co. Our Woolies split in 1982 and the original US
company is now Foot Locker Inc.
Bill Bryson tells of meeting a British couple who were very surprised
there were Woolworths in America, and even more surprised there were
cornflakes...
> Although the first UK store was opened almost 100 yrs ago
> in Liverpool. Which probably explains the 'nick it' line from your
> poem...which I must admit I'd never heard before.
There was a Mitch Benn song about the loss of Woolies with the chorus:
Where will all the chavs go now,
To do their shoplifting?
They got everything they wanted from Woolworths,
And they never paid for a damned thing.
Where will all the schemies go
To nick stuff now?
They'll have to get past the security scanners,
At TK-Max somehow.
The second chorus referred (IIRC) to scallies and neds in place of chavs
and schemies. That's London, Embra (I think), Liverpool, and Glasga.
My mum found the song hilarious, because apparently this was a problem
when *she* worked at Woolies, some exty years ago. Which possibly
explains how they ran out of money.
--
Dave
"All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand."
The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
Large Dave
I recall this song:
http://www.folklore.ms/html/books_and_MSS/2000s/2004-04-25_from_guidinguk-freeservers-com__downloads__unsuitablesongs_(WORD)/index.htm
--
Large Dave
This space accidentally left blank
Nigel Stapley
Yep, that's near enough the version I know - which I would have replied
to Gary with if you hadn't posted the link.
--
Regards
Nigel Stapley
<reply-to will bounce>
Lesley Weston
<snip>
> There was a Mitch Benn song about the loss of Woolies with the chorus:
>
> Where will all the chavs go now,
> To do their shoplifting?
> They got everything they wanted from Woolworths,
> And they never paid for a damned thing.
> Where will all the schemies go
> To nick stuff now?
> They'll have to get past the security scanners,
> At TK-Max somehow.
>
> The second chorus referred (IIRC) to scallies and neds in place of chavs
> and schemies. That's London, Embra (I think), Liverpool, and Glasga.
>
> My mum found the song hilarious, because apparently this was a problem
> when *she* worked at Woolies, some exty years ago. Which possibly
> explains how they ran out of money.
>
Long ago (in the sixties, even!) I applied for a job at Marks and
Spencer's, wearing my hair loose for the interview in an effort to look
nice. I could usually get any of those sorts of jobs I wanted, but not
this time. The interviewer told me, barely able to contain her disgust,
that someone who wore her hair loose could possibly be hired by
Woolworth's but /never/ by M&S. Perhaps not putting one's hair up is
connected with not being able to prevent shoplifting?
I didn't really want to work anywhere just then, being part of a sort
of informal commune where different ones of us were always in work and
could thus support everybody, and having just come off a stint at
Pergamon Press which I did /not/ enjoy, so this news didn't break my heart.
--
Lesley Weston
The addy above is real, but I won't see anything posted to it for a long
time. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca, adjusting as necessary.
Grymma
> I found a bottle of Brasso under the SO's sink this morning and
> thought to myself.
>
> "Shine up your buckles with Brasso,
> Only three ha'pennies a tin.
> You can buy it or nick it from Woolies,
> But make sure you rub it well in"
Version we sang, it was buttons, not buckles, and the last line was 'but
they ain't ever got any in'
--
Grymma AFPOh Goddess Of Hangovers; DAcFD, BF (UU)
"Mothers of teens know why animals eat their young"
Eric Jarvis
daibhidc...@aol.com says...
>
> There was a Mitch Benn song about the loss of Woolies with the chorus:
>
> Where will all the chavs go now,
> To do their shoplifting?
> They got everything they wanted from Woolworths,
> And they never paid for a damned thing.
> Where will all the schemies go
> To nick stuff now?
> They'll have to get past the security scanners,
> At TK-Max somehow.
>
> The second chorus referred (IIRC) to scallies and neds in place of chavs
> and schemies. That's London, Embra (I think), Liverpool, and Glasga.
>
> My mum found the song hilarious, because apparently this was a problem
> when *she* worked at Woolies, some exty years ago. Which possibly
> explains how they ran out of money.
>
Shoplifting was a serious problem in the Scunthorpe Woolworths back in
the late seventies. To the extent that they eventually chained up the
lawnmowers after several had been stolen one weekend. The following
weekend all the lawnmowers were still in the shop. However the chains had
been stolen.
--
eric
Live fast, die only if strictly necessary.
CCA
> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1] �is
> gone?
Buy - Tescos. Nick - well, if you sneak into a neighbour's house and
have a quick look under their sink...
Tescos is probably the better way. At least that way you won't get
yourself labelled "The Brasso Thief of (insert area here)" :-)
CCA
Sabremeister Brian
Xns9B9CA8E896C38da...@130.133.1.4,
Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> said:
> On 23 Jan 2009, "Geoff" <ge...@vector7.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> "GaryN" <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9B9C7DB077675g...@212.23.3.119...
>>> I found a bottle of Brasso under the SO's sink this morning
>>> and thought to
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> "Shine up your buckles with Brasso,
>>> Only three ha'pennies a tin.
>>> You can buy it or nick it from Woolies,
>>> But make sure you rub it well in"
>>>
>>> Non-UKians may not be familiar with this old childrens song
>>> but I suppose we'll have to rewrite it for the next
>>> generation.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that
>>> Woolies[1] is gone?
I don't recall ever seeing Brasso in a branch of Woollies in the
first place.
Those ridiculous commercials with that annoying sheep and dog
didn't help, either.
--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel (TM)
Now available at http://stores.lulu.com/brian1173
Geoff Field
>> My mum found the song hilarious, because apparently this was a
>> problem when *she* worked at Woolies, some exty years ago. Which
>> possibly explains how they ran out of money.
What, because she was working for them? ;-)
> Shoplifting was a serious problem in the Scunthorpe Woolworths back in
> the late seventies. To the extent that they eventually chained up the
> lawnmowers after several had been stolen one weekend. The following
> weekend all the lawnmowers were still in the shop. However the chains
> had been stolen.
My father used to claim that nobody would steal shovels and other such
tools because they represented hard work and thieves are lazy. He had
a fair bit of experience in such things, being a building supervisor in a
distinctly bad area [0].
Geoff
[0] Broadmeadows, Victoria, Australia - back in the 70s - for those
from the South-Eastern corner of the XXXXian mainland.
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
SteveD
>On Jan 23, 12:21?pm, GaryN <g...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1] ?is
>> gone?
>
>Buy - Tescos. Nick - well, if you sneak into a neighbour's house and
>have a quick look under their sink...
>
>Tescos is probably the better way. At least that way you won't get
>yourself labelled "The Brasso Thief of (insert area here)" :-)
"Police are looking for a brassy, polished operator."
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> In a speech called
> Xns9B9CA8E896C38da...@130.133.1.4,
> Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> said:
>>> "GaryN" <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9B9C7DB077675g...@212.23.3.119...
>>>> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that
>>>> Woolies[1] is gone?
>
> I don't recall ever seeing Brasso in a branch of Woollies in the
> first place.
That's something else my mum went on about when they closed down.
Woolies used to sell all sorts of stuff that hardly anyone else did.
Inexpensive, good quality jewelery, for example. Or Brasso (which I've
never seen *anywhere* except films made in the 1950s). But when I was a
kid, and forever after, they sold stuff *everyone* else did: videos,
music, clothes, sweets, toys.
GaryN
news:5eGdnWskb62Fl-fU...@posted.plusnet:
Yup; Dat's der Bunny.
For a given variety of lapine recognition.
Although the version I know differs slightly (when do they not?)
I'd posted only the chorus for bandwidth sake.
gary
Richard Bos
> There was a Mitch Benn song about the loss of Woolies with the chorus:
>
> Where will all the chavs go now,
> To do their shoplifting?
> They got everything they wanted from Woolworths,
> And they never paid for a damned thing.
> My mum found the song hilarious, because apparently this was a problem
> when *she* worked at Woolies, some exty years ago. Which possibly
> explains how they ran out of money.
I doubt it. All sorts of shops complain about shoplifting. If you hear
the shop owners' spokesentities go on about it, every single shop in the
country is constantly being robbed dry, and they'll all go broke unless
we bring back flogging. And yet, it took a major global crisis to make
only some of the chains go bust - and what did for them wasn't lack of
money but lack of bank credit. Shoplifting may well be a major problem
for single-owner cornershops, especially when one is particularly
targeted, but it'll never be more than yet another entry in the books
for the large chains.
Richard
Richard Bos
> On Jan 23, 12:21=EF=BF=BDpm, GaryN <g...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
> > Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1]
> > is gone?
>
> Buy - Tescos. Nick - well, if you sneak into a neighbour's house and
> have a quick look under their sink...
Or in my house on the cupboard shelf. Also a tin of Silvo, from the same
company. Goodness knows why - we have some small brass objects, but none
that I know of of silver.
> Tescos is probably the better way. At least that way you won't get
> yourself labelled "The Brasso Thief of (insert area here)" :-)
Still, better than the Phantom Raspberry Blower of <town>.
Richard
Jazhara7
Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
*am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
- XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
Larry Moore
> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>
>
> - XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
Was that in response to German labour laws?
Walmart just closed two stores in Quebec where the union organizing
votes were successful.
--
'That's right,' he said. 'We're philosophers. We think, therefore we
am.' - 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett
Thomas Zahr
> On 2009-01-24, Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I *am*
>> rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the country
>> with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>
>>
>> - XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
>
>
> Was that in response to German labour laws? Walmart just closed two
> stores in Quebec where the union organizing votes were successful.
No, just hubris.
They managed to piss off, in no particular order, local politicians,
unions, suppliers, ...
To give you an example, while they were a very small player on the German
market they demanded free anytime access to every suppliers premises.
To give you another example, they started a price war with the two
dominant German discount stores Aldi and Lidl, each about 10 times larger
and lot's more efficient than the big box format (and incidently, in the
case of Aldi, much better paid employees).
Clearly they thought they'd teach the German market how to be a succesful
retailer.
They wasted any chance they might have had
--
Cheers,
Thomas =:-)
Elliott Grasett
> On 2009-01-24, Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>>Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>*am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>
>>
>>- XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
>
>
>
> Was that in response to German labour laws?
> Walmart just closed two stores in Quebec where the union organizing
> votes were successful.
>
>
Somewhat pyrrhic, perhaps, but think of it as defeating Wal*Mart,
one store at a time.
--
Cheers,
Elliott
Lesley Weston
<snip>
> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like clothes?
Lesley Weston
> On 2009-01-24, Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>
>>
>> - XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
>
>
> Was that in response to German labour laws?
> Walmart just closed two stores in Quebec where the union organizing
> votes were successful.
>
>
suppose it'll happen, though. Meanwhile, the people who would have been
in that union, who by reason of low income would be among Walmart's
customers, now have nowhere to buy things and nor do the other
low-income people in Quebec.
Winterbay
> Jazhara7 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>
> So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like clothes?
>
In any of the other low-price stores that exist there. Such as C&A and
KIK for cloths (and to a certain extent H&M), Aldi and Lidl for food and
so on.
/Winterbay
Thomas Zahr
...
> It would be quite easy to legislate against companies doing that. Don't
> suppose it'll happen, though. Meanwhile, the people who would have been
> in that union, who by reason of low income would be among Walmart's
> customers, now have nowhere to buy things and nor do the other
> low-income people in Quebec.
There is legislation against that[1]. Interfering with a workscouncil
election is one of the more expensive ways to waste shareholder money.
[1] at least in Germany there is
Thomas Zahr
> Jazhara7 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I *am*
>> rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the country
>> with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>
> So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like
> clothes?
There *are* shops in Germany, even without Walmart
Alec Cawley
> Any suggestions as to where to buy or nick Brasso now that Woolies[1] is
> gone?
Homebase had it yesterday - but not Zebrite stove blacking, which we
were looking for.
Alec Cawley
> Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that Woolies came from the USofAmerkia originally.
> Although the first UK store was opened almost 100 yrs ago in Liverpool.
> Which probably explains the 'nick it' line from your poem...which I must
> admit I'd never heard before.
It did, but the USAnian origin sold of its overseas bits decades ago.
Woolies has bounced sound since, sometimes part of a conglomerate,
sometimes an independent company, but generally slipping slowly downhill
since the seventies.
Alec Cawley
Several of which are successful low price, no frills, sellers now
expanding overseas - and likely to do well in the current economic
climate. We have a Lidl in Newbury, and it is very good for quite a lot
of stuff. We by a lot of non-perishables there, and moderate amounts of
perishables as well, The range is narrow compared to Tescos, and the
decor several steps down, but the goods are perfectly good. Except they
only do cheap German beer. (Though, to be honest, if you are to have
cheap beer, German beer is probably better than British).
Alec Cawley
Steady at about 2% of turnover for decades. But actually about half
blamed on staff rather than the general public.
CCA
> Lesley Weston skrev:
> > So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like clothes?
> In any of the other low-price stores that exist there. Such as C&A and
> KIK for cloths (and to a certain extent H&M), Aldi and Lidl for food and
> so on.
You still have C&A over there? They disappeared years ago in the UK.
They weren't too bad back back in the eighties, especially for a
teenager who didn't have a Saturday job :-)
CCA
Lister
wrote:
Well, C&A was a forn company anyway, was it not?
Winterbay
According to wikipedia C&A still have branches in Argentina, Austria,
Belgium, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, Federation of Bosnia and
Herzegovina, France, Germany, Hungary, Luxembourg, Mexico, the
Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Slovakia, Slovenia
and Turkey.
Apparently they was forced out of the UK due to too high competition
from Tesco and ASDA (again according to Wikipedia).
/Winterbay
Lesley Weston
Lucky Germany! Here there are allegedly lower-price stores like Zellers,
but they're not all they're cracked up to be. Our nearest Wal-Mart is an
hour's drive away so we don't often go there, but last year we were near
it for other purposes so we bought the Christmas presents for our
grandchildren there. We had previously decided how much we would spend
on them, based on the usual prices at Zellers and Toys 'R' Us, so we
picked out the things on the list that we had decided on, and then
discovered we had spent about a quarter of what we had set aside. So we
bought them more toys not on the list, things we knew they would like
(they did), and still it was only half the amount. So we got them
clothes - lots of clothes, which didn't interest them but did please
their parents. And it's all good-quality stuff: the toys are the exact
same ones we would have got elsewhere.
So I'm not a member of the Help Stamp Out Wal-Mart Movement at all,
quite the contrary. I can't wait for them to get through the legal
quagmire that Vancouver has set up specifically to block them and open
the store planned for much closer to us. This will be the greenest store
of any chain built so far in Canada, will provide employment on terms no
worse than those at Zellers, and will allow poor people like us to buy
the things we need and still have money left over for food or for
indulging grandchildren.
Lesley Weston
Germany?
Lesley Weston
Jeff Howell
> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>> Am Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:20:45 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>
>>> Jazhara7 wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I *am*
>>>> rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the country
>>>> with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>> So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like
>>> clothes?
>>
>> There *are* shops in Germany, even without Walmart
>>
> Of course! But are their prices as good? Or are there no poor people in
> Germany?
Just out of curiosity, how do you think the poor managed to clothe
themselves before WalMart existed?
--
Jeff Howell
Richard Bos
> On Jan 23, 2:18=A0pm, Bonzai Kitten <The.Bonzai.Kit...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ SNIP! (Please do.) ]
> > We still have Woolies in Oz. In fact, all the Safeways just turned
> > into Woolies too. Possibly it has something to so with blackholes.
>
> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
Well, yeah, but is that really reason to be proud, when you gave the
rest of the world Lidl?
Richard
Larry Moore
> Larry Moore wrote:
>> On 2009-01-24, Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>>
>>>
>>> - XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
>>
>>
>> Was that in response to German labour laws?
>> Walmart just closed two stores in Quebec where the union organizing
>> votes were successful.
>>
>>
> It would be quite easy to legislate against companies doing that. Don't
> suppose it'll happen, though. Meanwhile, the people who would have been
> in that union, who by reason of low income would be among Walmart's
> customers, now have nowhere to buy things and nor do the other
> low-income people in Quebec.
>
Metro now owns Dominion (and a number of other food retail chains,) in
the ROC [1] and Rona is giving the US bigbox hardware chain healthy
competition. I predict a killer rival to W*mart will come from PQ.
[1] Residiuum of Canada
--
"By my writing, I amuse people and make them happy. My writing style is
simple, straightforward, and upbeat - nothing nasty or horrid or violent or
perverse. In this sad world, I think that anyone who spreads happiness
automatically justifies his existence." - Isaac Asimov
Amethyst Deceiver
Lidl's fine. I'd rather shop in Lidl than WalMart/Asda. And, indeed, do.
--
Linz
Lesley Weston
exploited their workforces and those of their suppliers - Walmart didn't
invent the oxymoron of business ethics. Also thrift shops and
jumble-sales, which are still available but which can't be guaranteed to
have what's needed.
And there might not have been quite so many people who were quite so
poor, not since the last Depression anyway. The North American and
European boom in the fifties and sixties made everybody middle-class,
with the expectations of any other middle-class people. Now there's
going to be a lower class again as the jobs disappear, but because of
the earlier boom we will still want the same things as other people
have, instead of being humbly aware of our station in society and
trimming our wishes accordingly.
Lesley Weston
> On 2009-01-25, Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Larry Moore wrote:
>>> On 2009-01-24, Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
>>>
>>> Was that in response to German labour laws?
>>> Walmart just closed two stores in Quebec where the union organizing
>>> votes were successful.
>>>
>>>
>> It would be quite easy to legislate against companies doing that. Don't
>> suppose it'll happen, though. Meanwhile, the people who would have been
>> in that union, who by reason of low income would be among Walmart's
>> customers, now have nowhere to buy things and nor do the other
>> low-income people in Quebec.
>>
>
> Metro now owns Dominion (and a number of other food retail chains,) in
> the ROC [1] and Rona is giving the US bigbox hardware chain healthy
> competition. I predict a killer rival to W*mart will come from PQ.
>
> [1] Residiuum of Canada
>
low-income Canadians with the stuff we need! But of course, Canadian or
not, they'll still have to exploit their staff and buy products made in
sweatshops if they're going to go on supplying us at prices we can afford.
Lesley Weston
any difference among these three?
Alec Cawley
> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
>> In article <497b7d77...@news.xs4all.nl>, ral...@xs4all.nl says...
>>> Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 23, 2:18=A0pm, Bonzai Kitten <The.Bonzai.Kit...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>> [ SNIP! (Please do.) ]
>>>
>>>>> We still have Woolies in Oz. In fact, all the Safeways just turned
>>>>> into Woolies too. Possibly it has something to so with blackholes.
>>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>> Well, yeah, but is that really reason to be proud, when you gave the
>>> rest of the world Lidl?
>>
>> Lidl's fine. I'd rather shop in Lidl than WalMart/Asda. And, indeed, do.
>>
> We don't have Lidl. Or Asda. So that leaves Wal-Mart. Is there actually
> any difference among these three?
Asda is Wal*mart(UK). They own it, and their lorries say "Part of the
Wal*mart family", which makes me wince when I see it.
Lidl is much more focused on traditional groceries than the others,
whech sell computers, mowers, clothes etc. Lidl sells the everyday
shopping basket: food, cleaning materials, general household
consumables. The sort of thing you might have on a preprinted
shoppinglist of things that you buy regularly. They have a more
warehouse-like ambience - less attempts to be "elegant", less special
offers. They don't take credit cards in the UK. Basically, the come over
as more "honest" in a subjective way - they don't pretend to be what
they are not.
There is talk in the UK of "Lidl/Waitrose" shoppers. Buy the basic in
Lidl, then squander the savings on foodie goodys at Waitrose.
Thomas Zahr
> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>> Am Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:20:45 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>
>>> Jazhara7 wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>> So where do poor people in Germany buy things they must have, like
>>> clothes?
>>
>> There *are* shops in Germany, even without Walmart
>>
> Of course! But are their prices as good? Or are there no poor people in
> Germany?
Walmart lost a price war, so yes, there's shops that are cheaper, and
easier to get to.
Thomas Zahr
> From the cheap stores that closed long ago, and that also underpaid and
> exploited their workforces
Just for the record, one of the hardest of hard discounters, Aldi, pays
the best wages in the business
Rocky Frisco
All those charming cobblers and tailors, no?
-Rock
--
Chris Zakes
Our most convenient local grocery store closed a few years ago and was
replaced with a "plus" version a couple of miles down the road. The
plus version includes furniture, auto parts, a large garden shop and I
don't know what else. We went in there to try to buy groceries and had
to fight our way past the sofas and car batteries to even *find* the
food.
Once was too many. We now drive about twice as far to a grocery store
that actually has groceries in the majority of its floor space.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
Be careful what you wish for, it may have a very long job description.
-Puck Curtis
Amethyst Deceiver
brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk says...
> And there might not have been quite so many people who were quite so
> poor, not since the last Depression anyway. The North American and
> European boom in the fifties and sixties made everybody middle-class,
> with the expectations of any other middle-class people. Now there's
> going to be a lower class again as the jobs disappear, but because of
> the earlier boom we will still want the same things as other people
> have, instead of being humbly aware of our station in society and
> trimming our wishes accordingly.
You're having a laugh, innit. In some parts of the UK we're on our
second generation of people with absolutely no expectations because
there are no jobs and no opportunities and they see no point in
education. They aren't middle class, they don't regard themselves as
middle class.
Amethyst Deceiver
brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
> > In article <497b7d77...@news.xs4all.nl>, ral...@xs4all.nl says...
> >> Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jan 23, 2:18=A0pm, Bonzai Kitten <The.Bonzai.Kit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> [ SNIP! (Please do.) ]
> >>
> >>>> We still have Woolies in Oz. In fact, all the Safeways just turned
> >>>> into Woolies too. Possibly it has something to so with blackholes.
> >>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
> >>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
> >>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
> >> Well, yeah, but is that really reason to be proud, when you gave the
> >> rest of the world Lidl?
> >
> > Lidl's fine. I'd rather shop in Lidl than WalMart/Asda. And, indeed, do.
> >
> We don't have Lidl. Or Asda. So that leaves Wal-Mart. Is there actually
> any difference among these three?
Yes. WalMart/Asda tends to have huge shops with huge ranges of stock in
a variety of brands. Lidl will have a half shelf of tinned tomatoes and
if you don't like the brand you go elsewhere. Similarly there'll be one
kind of rice noodles, one make of spaghetti, one brand of yoghurt. In
the freezer section you'll find everything from ice pops to Brussels
sprouts, chicken nuggets to lobster. I don't recall ever seeing lobster
in Asda.
Carol Hague
> Lesley Weston wrote:
> > We don't have Lidl. Or Asda. So that leaves Wal-Mart. Is there actually
> > any difference among these three?
>
> Asda is Wal*mart(UK). They own it, and their lorries say "Part of the
> Wal*mart family", which makes me wince when I see it.
>
> Lidl is much more focused on traditional groceries than the others,
> whech sell computers, mowers, clothes etc. Lidl sells the everyday
> shopping basket: food, cleaning materials, general household
> consumables. The sort of thing you might have on a preprinted
> shoppinglist of things that you buy regularly.
They do have a fair few other things too, but those are weekly specials
rather than constantly available. They can be very good value though.
>They have a more
> warehouse-like ambience - less attempts to be "elegant", less special
> offers. They don't take credit cards in the UK.
They do take debit cards these days though - when they first started up
they were cash only here.
I think I'd shop in Lidl a lot more if there were one nearby.
--
Carol. www.mullimages.com
"This might as well say "bing tiddle tiddle bong".
It's complete gibberish," - Rodney McKay, Stargate: Atlantis
Lesley Weston
Lesley Weston
But I'll bet they all have large TVs, central heating, plenty of
fashionable clothes, maybe even a car, and all the rest of it. I guess I
was using the term "middle class" in its North American sense, meaning
"Having an income that allows one to own at least some of the nice
non-essentials", rather than in its English sense of "Doing easy jobs in
pleasant surroundings and getting paid far more than people who do nasty
jobs (or no jobs) and talk in regional accents".
Lesley Weston
found these in the first few hits:
http://www.union-network.org/unisite/sectors/commerce/Multinationals/Lidl_action_2006.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/sep/21/foodanddrink.supermarkets
On another note, the BBC has a story today about Asda (which is
Walmart) taking on 6,000 more employees, 3,000 of them to be long-term
unemployed people, because their sales have risen astronomically as
peoples' incomes fall.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7855482.stm
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
>>> In article <497b7d77...@news.xs4all.nl>, ral...@xs4all.nl says...
>>>> Jazhara7 <Ti...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 23, 2:18=A0pm, Bonzai Kitten <The.Bonzai.Kit...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> [ SNIP! (Please do.) ]
>>>>
>>>>>> We still have Woolies in Oz. In fact, all the Safeways just turned
>>>>>> into Woolies too. Possibly it has something to so with blackholes.
>>>>> Same here in jolly old Germany. Woolworth is still going strong. I
>>>>> *am* rather proud of saying that we managed to make WalMart flee the
>>>>> country with its tail between its legs. *cackles*
>>>> Well, yeah, but is that really reason to be proud, when you gave the
>>>> rest of the world Lidl?
>>>
>>> Lidl's fine. I'd rather shop in Lidl than WalMart/Asda. And, indeed, do.
>>>
>> We don't have Lidl. Or Asda. So that leaves Wal-Mart. Is there
>> actually any difference among these three?
>
> Asda is Wal*mart(UK). They own it, and their lorries say "Part of the
> Wal*mart family", which makes me wince when I see it.
Yes, I just found that out from the BBC this morning, along with some
unpleasant information from Googling about Lidl that indicates that of
the three mostly indistinguishable companies (in terms of ethics), Lidl
is the worst.
>
> Lidl is much more focused on traditional groceries than the others,
> whech sell computers, mowers, clothes etc. Lidl sells the everyday
> shopping basket: food, cleaning materials, general household
> consumables. The sort of thing you might have on a preprinted
> shoppinglist of things that you buy regularly. They have a more
> warehouse-like ambience - less attempts to be "elegant", less special
> offers. They don't take credit cards in the UK. Basically, the come over
> as more "honest" in a subjective way - they don't pretend to be what
> they are not.
Honest, maybe, but have you noticed any of the female staff wearing
special headbands when you shop there?
>
> There is talk in the UK of "Lidl/Waitrose" shoppers. Buy the basic in
> Lidl, then squander the savings on foodie goodys at Waitrose.
So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK). Here, Walmart's main
competitor in the grocery section is Superstore, which now calls itself
The Great Canadian Superstore. We buy basics there at good prices, and
then buy much fresher produce and a few luxury goods like Caramella at
other stores that are considerably more expensive.
Carol Hague
> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
Waitrose's first supermarket opened in 1955 (although the company was
founded in 1904) [1]. So, yes, relative newcomers, compared to
Sainsburys, who opened their first shop in 1869, but *their* first
self-service store was only opened in 1950 (in Croydon) just five years
before Waitrose's.
[1] Although they're owned by the John Lewis Partnership, which goes
back to 1864, five years *before* Sainsburys started up...
Thomas Zahr
> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>> Am Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:49:07 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>
>>> From the cheap stores that closed long ago, and that also underpaid
>>> and exploited their workforces
>>
>> Just for the record, one of the hardest of hard discounters, Aldi, pays
>> the best wages in the business
>>
> Good for them! Where does their stock come from?
Fresh food local
General grocery stuff Germany and Europe
Rest all over, same as anybody else
ingenious paradox
wrote:
>Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
>> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
>> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>
>I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
>reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was
flabbergasted to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
And yes, Lesley, Waitrose is the Posh Supermarket.
Julie
Definitely not posh. I'm just drawn that way.
ingenious paradox
<brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
(on Lidl)
>
>Honest, maybe, but have you noticed any of the female staff wearing
>special headbands when you shop there?
I'm not sure I understand this. What kind of special, and why?
Julie
Larry Moore
If we were to disintermediate and deal directly with the factories,
we could free up enough money to pay decently, enforce quality standards
and provide domestic employment for our knowledge workers designing
goods appropriate to our needs. I like the idea of helping the third
world to work their way out of poverty but see no reason to bakshis
american corporations at the same time.
--
Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of
human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of
circumstances, to choose one's own way.
Viktor E. Frankl
steveski
However, it is the only one where those who work there have a vested
interest because they are 'partners'. I like this ethos. I shop there
most of all of the supermarkets (and not just because it's the easiest
one to get to for me) but because I like their pricing - things go down
in price as well as up - not because they're 'loss-leaders' but because
of the wholesale price. And, yes, I'm old enough to remember John
Sainsbury with the marble worktops . . . :-)
--
Steveski
Amethyst Deceiver
brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
> > In article <glnheo$l4d$1...@mud.stack.nl>,
> > brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk says...
> >
> >> And there might not have been quite so many people who were quite so
> >> poor, not since the last Depression anyway. The North American and
> >> European boom in the fifties and sixties made everybody middle-class,
> >> with the expectations of any other middle-class people. Now there's
> >> going to be a lower class again as the jobs disappear, but because of
> >> the earlier boom we will still want the same things as other people
> >> have, instead of being humbly aware of our station in society and
> >> trimming our wishes accordingly.
> >
> > You're having a laugh, innit. In some parts of the UK we're on our
> > second generation of people with absolutely no expectations because
> > there are no jobs and no opportunities and they see no point in
> > education. They aren't middle class, they don't regard themselves as
> > middle class.
>
> But I'll bet they all have large TVs, central heating, plenty of
> fashionable clothes, maybe even a car, and all the rest of it. I guess I
Bet away, I don't think your money's safe though.
> was using the term "middle class" in its North American sense, meaning
> "Having an income that allows one to own at least some of the nice
> non-essentials", rather than in its English sense of "Doing easy jobs in
> pleasant surroundings and getting paid far more than people who do nasty
> jobs (or no jobs) and talk in regional accents".
Ah, another North-American with no idea about the British class system.
Those pesky lower-class regional accents letting the side down again,
eh.
Carol Hague
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:36 +0000, ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague)
> wrote:
>
> >Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
> >> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
> >> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
> >
> >I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
> >reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>
> I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
> questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was
> flabbergasted to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
Rob tells me that Sainsbury's definitely used to have a "posh" image
some years ago - which probably explains Lesley's perception of them
based on when she was last in the UK.
Having worked for them once and heard the managers swearing like
troopers in the warehouse, it never occurred to me to think of the place
as posh :-)
GaryN
news:1iuauei.m7csn76gd5wnN%ca...@wrhpv.com:
> ingenious paradox <julie.w...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:36 +0000, ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that
>> >> would be Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember
>> >> from all those years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>> >
>> >I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
>> >reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>>
>> I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
>> questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was
>> flabbergasted to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
>
> Rob tells me that Sainsbury's definitely used to have a "posh" image
> some years ago - which probably explains Lesley's perception of them
> based on when she was last in the UK.
>
> Having worked for them once and heard the managers swearing like
> troopers in the warehouse, it never occurred to me to think of the
> place as posh :-)
If people in the warehouse *aren't* swearing like troopers they're
probably not doing their jobs right.
I did a fair amount of warehouse work whilst I could (completely
illegally) still climb the racking to ensure that the required article
was:-
a) Actually where the manifest said it was - ha ha!
b) What the manifest said it was - ha ha ha!!
c) Undamaged and possible to reach without taking out either the rear
wall or 3 tons of other stuff that shouldn't even be in the store anyway
- mwahaaahaaaahaaa!!!
The customer service, and goods available may be posh but warehouse
staff, and managers, swear.
As in:
Warehouse manager: "The database says we've got 5 of these bloody things
and you're telling me you can't f'ing find them"
Warehouse worker: "Yeah - the f'ing pieces of s*** aren't where they're
supposed to be
WM: "Well where the f*** are they then?"
WW: "How the F'ing hell should I know? The bastard things were
delivered on my day off"
Forklift driver: "Don't f'ing look at me I was on the late shift that
day"
WM: "Wait a minute. This is the wrong F'ing delivery docket anyway.
Who the F*** signed for this?"
WW (now high up the 30 foot racking): "Wait a minute - I think I can
see them but some c*** forklift driver smashed the f'ing things against
the wall with a pallet of bricks"
FD: "Don't f'ing look at me - the f'ing things shouldn't have been
there"
etc ad infinitum.
Important note - if signing for a delivery scrawl someone else's
name..;-)
gary
--
"We're just human; and we weren't as clever as we thought we were when
we needed to be.
That will be the epitaph on the gravestone of the human race"
Alistair Reynolds from 'House of Suns' (paraphrased)
Carol Hague
> ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague) wrote in
> news:1iuauei.m7csn76gd5wnN%ca...@wrhpv.com:
> > Having worked for them once and heard the managers swearing like
> > troopers in the warehouse, it never occurred to me to think of the
> > place as posh :-)
>
>
> If people in the warehouse *aren't* swearing like troopers they're
> probably not doing their jobs right.
:-) I expect you're right - it just doesn't give off that Hyacinth
Bucket posh-wannabe vibe, is all :-)
<snippetry>
> The customer service, and goods available may be posh but warehouse
> staff, and managers, swear.
I did a fair bit of it myself, for that matter - I was in the cash
office then, and all of us in there would use the f-word with great
frequency. especially when those little plastic cash tubes would get
stuck in the pneumatic delivery pipes, which would happen at least a
couple of times a month if not more often....
Chris Zakes
That *might* work, but you'd also end up paying more to the factories,
because they'd need extra staff to handle the increased shipping and
order-processing. It's comparatively easy for the factory to ship a
truckload of, say, bicycles to a central distributor (whose sole job
is to break them down into smaller shipments to individual stores.)
It'd be more work for the factory to send five bikes to this store and
ten to that store and two to another store and warehouse the rest
until needed.
One reason the big chains have lower prices is because they own their
own distribution centers, so stuff gets shipped there directly from
the factory, then consolidated into truckloads for each store. When I
worked at Target (big US discount retailer, similar to Wal-Mart, but
with more class) we'd get in a truck from the distribution center
every night. It would get unloaded, and probably 3/4 of the product
would go directly onto the sales floor--but it was everything from
bicycles to bras to bread knives.
Lesley Weston
(S)he don't know me very well, do (s)he? But then there's no reason why
(s)he should.
Lesley Weston
Walmart, that they must be an everything store. If they are, then their
goods other than food are probably made at starvation wages by children
and/or prisoners in China and Third-world countries, like those sold by
Walmart and every other discount store in every First-world country.
This seems to be the only way they can offer such good prices.
But it's very much to their credit that they pay their own staff properly.
Lesley Weston
I like this word! Is it real? If not, it should be.
> and deal directly with the factories,
> we could free up enough money to pay decently, enforce quality standards
> and provide domestic employment for our knowledge workers designing
> goods appropriate to our needs.
Enough money to provide everybody in the world with the life-style that
we demand for ourselves?
> I like the idea of helping the third
> world to work their way out of poverty but see no reason to bakshis
> american corporations at the same time.
I'm all for supporting Canadian companies, but if a company's not
Canadian I don't see that it matters which country holds its head
office. And don't forget that even Timmy's [1] is American.
[1] Tim Horton's, for non-Canadians. Iconic "Canadian" supplier of
doughnuts, given to advertising itself with a picture of a cup of its
coffee and the slogan "True patriot love".
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
>> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
>> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>
> I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
> reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
Or the Co-op, which was where we shopped when we were first married - we
couldn't afford Sainsbury's.
>
>> which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
>> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>
> Waitrose's first supermarket opened in 1955 (although the company was
> founded in 1904) [1]. So, yes, relative newcomers, compared to
> Sainsburys, who opened their first shop in 1869, but *their* first
> self-service store was only opened in 1950 (in Croydon) just five years
> before Waitrose's.
So they were around in England when I was. Me not knowing about them
just means that they didn't have any branches in any of the places where
I lived, or perhaps that I wasn't paying attention.
>
>
> [1] Although they're owned by the John Lewis Partnership, which goes
> back to 1864, five years *before* Sainsburys started up...
John Lewis used to be a sort of Socialist organisation, owned by their
staff. I don't think it actually worked that way even at the beginning,
but it's a nice idea.
Lesley Weston
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:36 +0000, ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague)
> wrote:
>
>> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would be
>>> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
>>> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>> I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
>> reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>
> I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
> questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was
> flabbergasted to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
M&S had an image all those years ago that was not exactly posh but more
"sensible middle-class", just like Sainsbury's, so that doesn't seem
weird to me.
>
> And yes, Lesley, Waitrose is the Posh Supermarket.
Same goods at higher prices? We have those too.
Carol Hague
> Carol Hague wrote:
> > [1] Although they're owned by the John Lewis Partnership, which goes
> > back to 1864, five years *before* Sainsburys started up...
>
> John Lewis used to be a sort of Socialist organisation, owned by their
> staff. I don't think it actually worked that way even at the beginning,
> but it's a nice idea.
It's still run on those lines, I believe - I don't know a great deal
about it, but from what I've heard the workers are all "partners" and
have a share, however small, in the business.
Lesley Weston
<snip>
My husband is nodding sagely as I read this to him while he watches
rugby on TV (we seem to spend some time in this joint activity most
mornings). He and both our sons have driven fork-lifts in various
warehouses (they all say it's fun, especially when you make the
fork-lift do completely-illegal and wildly-dangerous wheelies), and he
agrees that this is a true rendition.
>
> Important note - if signing for a delivery scrawl someone else's
> name..;-)
However, he amends this to "Rule 1: Never sign for anything with
anybody's name." He also adds a comment to the story: "Try doing that
with engine-blocks!"
Jeff Howell
> Larry Moore wrote:
<snip>
>> and deal directly with the factories,
>> we could free up enough money to pay decently, enforce quality standards
>> and provide domestic employment for our knowledge workers designing
>> goods appropriate to our needs.
>
> Enough money to provide everybody in the world with the life-style that
> we demand for ourselves?
This rather assumes that the rest of the world actually *wants* that
lifestyle.
>> I like the idea of helping the third
>> world to work their way out of poverty but see no reason to bakshis
>> american corporations at the same time.
>
> I'm all for supporting Canadian companies, but if a company's not
> Canadian I don't see that it matters which country holds its head
> office. And don't forget that even Timmy's [1] is American.
>
> [1] Tim Horton's, for non-Canadians. Iconic "Canadian" supplier of
> doughnuts, given to advertising itself with a picture of a cup of its
> coffee and the slogan "True patriot love".
While it is true that for a time TDL group was wholly owned by Wendy's
International, this is no longer the case. Tim Horton's started in
Canada and is still headquartered in Canada. It's a publicly traded
company, so exact location of ownership is fuzzy at best...
--
Jeff Howell
Lesley Weston
The story is here:
http://www.union-network.org/unisite/sectors/commerce/Multinationals/Lidl_action_2006.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/sep/21/foodanddrink.supermarkets
It seems that Lidl tried to forbid their employees to go to the loo
during their shifts. When people protested, including pointing out that
menstruating women would have to, they came up with the solution that
female employees would be required to wear a special headband while they
were having their period, and would then be allowed to use the loo.
Lidl isn't alone, though they're the only one I've heard of that went
to that level of absurdity. A meat-packing company in Canada tried to
time the washroom-breaks that its employees took, and thus caused a
major strike.
Carol Hague
<snippety do-dah>
> However, he amends this to "Rule 1: Never sign for anything with
> anybody's name." He also adds a comment to the story: "Try doing that
> with engine-blocks!"
I should think using an engine blocj to sign for something would be very
difficult indeed....
steveski
> ingenious paradox wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:36 +0000, ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that would
>>>> be Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all
>>>> those years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>>> I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
>>> reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>>
>> I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
>> questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was flabbergasted
>> to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
>
> M&S had an image all those years ago that was not exactly posh but more
> "sensible middle-class", just like Sainsbury's, so that doesn't seem
> weird to me.
>>
>> And yes, Lesley, Waitrose is the Posh Supermarket.
>
> Same goods at higher prices? We have those too.
Not quite - I would say 'better goods at slightly higher prices'. You
gets what you pays for even if you're skint and have to buy less.
--
Steveski
steveski
> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Carol Hague wrote:
>
>> > [1] Although they're owned by the John Lewis Partnership, which goes
>> > back to 1864, five years *before* Sainsburys started up...
>>
>> John Lewis used to be a sort of Socialist organisation, owned by their
>> staff. I don't think it actually worked that way even at the beginning,
>> but it's a nice idea.
>
> It's still run on those lines, I believe - I don't know a great deal
> about it, but from what I've heard the workers are all "partners" and
> have a share, however small, in the business.
As I said in my, apparently unread, post above.
--
Steveski
Carol Hague
steveski
> steveski <stev...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:22:45 +0000, Carol Hague wrote:
>>
>> > Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Carol Hague wrote:
>> >
>> >> > [1] Although they're owned by the John Lewis Partnership, which
>> >> > goes back to 1864, five years *before* Sainsburys started up...
>> >>
>> >> John Lewis used to be a sort of Socialist organisation, owned by
>> >> their staff. I don't think it actually worked that way even at the
>> >> beginning, but it's a nice idea.
>> >
>> > It's still run on those lines, I believe - I don't know a great deal
>> > about it, but from what I've heard the workers are all "partners" and
>> > have a share, however small, in the business.
>>
>> As I said in my, apparently unread, post above.
>
> Sorry. Some days I have a really poor atten.....oooh! shiny!
That actually got me LOL :-)
--
Steveski
Chris Zakes
caused Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> to write:
(snip)
>My husband is nodding sagely as I read this to him while he watches
>rugby on TV (we seem to spend some time in this joint activity most
>mornings). He and both our sons have driven fork-lifts in various
>warehouses (they all say it's fun, especially when you make the
>fork-lift do completely-illegal and wildly-dangerous wheelies), and he
>agrees that this is a true rendition.
I'll agree that using a forklift can be fun (as long as it's somebody
*else* on top of the stack of 20 pallets that you're raising up to the
ceiling so he can change the light bulbs--yes, the boss was too cheap
to buy/rent proper equipment or hire a professional crew to do the
job, so I drove the forklift and his son stood on top of the pallets)
but how do you make a forklift do a wheelie? I wouldn't think they
have enough acceleration.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
What do you mean that eating pizza, drinking beer and watching football isn't "multitasking?"
Rocky Frisco
Tulsa's best supermarkets are Reasor's stores. They're locally owned
(Muskogee family; old man Reasor died recently). They ran the national
chains off a few years ago, simply by being better: lower prices and
well-stocked shelves, etc.
The old Albertsons's stores are all Reasor's now.
-Rock
--
Alec Cawley
> In article <glq3ik$74p$1...@mud.stack.nl>,
> brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> Bet away, I don't think your money's safe though.
>
>> was using the term "middle class" in its North American sense, meaning
>> "Having an income that allows one to own at least some of the nice
>> non-essentials", rather than in its English sense of "Doing easy jobs in
>> pleasant surroundings and getting paid far more than people who do nasty
>> jobs (or no jobs) and talk in regional accents".
>
> Ah, another North-American with no idea about the British class system.
> Those pesky lower-class regional accents letting the side down again,
> eh.
I am just re-reading Kate Fox's "Watching the English", in which she
provides a superb analysis of the English, their faults and their
virtues (of which they have a few) including a detailed analysis of
class and its indicators. In which she points out that the class system
has now become almost entirely divorced from income or job, and is much
more a state of mind an an attitude. The most poverty stricken are
probably, but not certainly, working class, one the basic necessities
have been covered class is mostly in the mind.
When I was young, our local GPO (now BT) lineman - the man who climbs
telephone poles to fix the wires thereon - was an Earl. We also had
another Earl nearby who was genuinely wealthy and actually worked quite
hard in the House of Lords (deputy Tory leader in the Lords, IIRC).
Whereas some of the wealthiest people around were flash gits proud of
their Loads o'Money driving Rolls Royces with fluffy dice.
Alec Cawley
> ingenious paradox wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:36 +0000, ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> So Waitrose is more upmarket? The Guardian seemed to think that
>>>> would be
>>>> Sainsbury's, which is in keeping with what I remember from all those
>>>> years ago before Waitrose existed (SFAIK).
>>> I giggled a bit at the thought of Sainsburys being upmarket, but on
>>> reflection, I suppose they *are*, compared to, e.g. Lidl.
>>
>> I got sent an "are you posh?" survey a while back. One of the
>> questions was "do you shop at M&S or Sainsbury's?" I was
>> flabbergasted to discover that it was a yes/no answer...
>
> M&S had an image all those years ago that was not exactly posh but more
> "sensible middle-class", just like Sainsbury's, so that doesn't seem
> weird to me.
>>
>> And yes, Lesley, Waitrose is the Posh Supermarket.
>
> Same goods at higher prices? We have those too.
I wouldn't say so - when I described them as "foody", I meant it i.e.
they have higher prices but stock quite a lot of more up market,
recherché stuff. If I was looking for venison, for example, I would try
Waitrose first. Or their German/Italian/Moroccan/etc delicacies are more
likely to have been imported from the relevant country than made to a
recipe in this country,
Larry Moore
> Larry Moore wrote:
>> On 2009-01-27, Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> If we were to disintermediate
>
> I like this word! Is it real? If not, it should be.
>
It is - first seen in print in 1967 AIH.
> Enough money to provide everybody in the world with the life-style that
> we demand for ourselves?
>
A consumerist culture supported by planned obsolesce, engineered
unrepairability and consumer debt? I pray that 'everybody
in the world' finds a better way.
>
> I'm all for supporting Canadian companies, but if a company's not
> Canadian I don't see that it matters which country holds its head
> office. And don't forget that even Timmy's [1] is American.
>
> [1] Tim Horton's, for non-Canadians. Iconic "Canadian" supplier of
> doughnuts, given to advertising itself with a picture of a cup of its
> coffee and the slogan "True patriot love".
>
Covered in the reply by the OP.
--
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there
is.
Isaac Asimov
Suzi
brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk wibbled...
> M&S had an image all those years ago that was not exactly posh but more
> "sensible middle-class", just like Sainsbury's, so that doesn't seem
> weird to me.
So it might have done, but things change (especially over long periods
of time).
These days Sainsbury is on a par with places like Tesco and Asda (the
fact that Sainsbury seem to think that they're better is somewhat
amusing).
The upmarket food halls are M&S and Waitrose. However, even the middle
range supermarkets now all offer a "high end" range (e.g. "Tesco's
Finest") alongside their normal and cheap offerings.
Suzi
--
"You could turn it into Suzi, and it sounded as though you danced on
tables for a living.........." Soul Music (B.F., AFPetite & AFProud)
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C++ M pp+ L+ c-@ B Cn:+ PT+ Pu49- 5++ X++ MT eV+ rp++++ x+++ End~~
http://www.lspace.org/ - The Ultimate Terry Pratchett fan site!
SteveD
wrote:
>When I was young, our local GPO (now BT) lineman - the man who climbs
>telephone poles to fix the wires thereon - was an Earl. We also had
>another Earl nearby who was genuinely wealthy and actually worked quite
>hard in the House of Lords (deputy Tory leader in the Lords, IIRC).
>Whereas some of the wealthiest people around were flash gits proud of
>their Loads o'Money driving Rolls Royces with fluffy dice.
Thus the thriving business of buying and selling titles.
-SteveD
Geoff Field
> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>> Am Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:01:52 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>
>>> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>>>> Am Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:49:07 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>>>
>>>>> From the cheap stores that closed long ago, and that also
>>>>> underpaid and exploited their workforces
>>>> Just for the record, one of the hardest of hard discounters, Aldi,
>>>> pays the best wages in the business
>>>>
>>> Good for them! Where does their stock come from?
>>
>> Fresh food local
>> General grocery stuff Germany and Europe
>> Rest all over, same as anybody else
>>
> Aldi are just a grocery store? I thought, from their being compared to
> Walmart, that they must be an everything store. If they are, then their
> goods other than food are probably made at starvation wages by
> children and/or prisoners in China and Third-world countries, like
> those sold by Walmart and every other discount store in every
> First-world country.
I bought this here computer from an Aldi here in Melbourne.
I lined up behind people buying their food, handed over some money
and walked out with a rather nice PC. In Australia, Aldi seem to have
half the store selling food and the other half selling other stuff.
> This seems to be the only way they can offer such good prices.
I've heard the strategy is to select just ONE variety of each type
of item. Other supermarkets can have tens of thousands of different
items on their shelves, each of which costs a little bit to administer
(and takes space). Aldi just have one of each item, so they need
less shelf space and smaller overheads.
> But it's very much to their credit that they pay their own staff
> properly.
They save on the overheads so they can treat the important parts
of their business properly.
Geoff
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Geoff Field
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:26:23 -0800, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> to write:
>
> (snip)
>
>> My husband is nodding sagely as I read this to him while he watches
>> rugby on TV (we seem to spend some time in this joint activity most
>> mornings). He and both our sons have driven fork-lifts in various
>> warehouses (they all say it's fun, especially when you make the
>> fork-lift do completely-illegal and wildly-dangerous wheelies), and
>> he agrees that this is a true rendition.
>
> I'll agree that using a forklift can be fun (as long as it's somebody
> *else* on top of the stack of 20 pallets that you're raising up to the
> ceiling so he can change the light bulbs--yes, the boss was too cheap
> to buy/rent proper equipment or hire a professional crew to do the
> job, so I drove the forklift and his son stood on top of the pallets)
> but how do you make a forklift do a wheelie? I wouldn't think they
> have enough acceleration.
You don't need acceleration - you need torque. A totally different thing.
Apparently the trick is to load the forks so that there's not much weight
on the driving wheels. Of course, this depends on the driving wheel(s)
being at the back. If they're under the forks, I suppose you'd have to
drive them unloaded.
lee
wrote:
(wheelies)
> You don't need acceleration - you need torque. A totally different
> thing.
>
> Apparently the trick is to load the forks so that there's not much weight
> on the driving wheels. Of course, this depends on the driving wheel(s)
> being at the back. If they're under the forks, I suppose you'd have to
> drive them unloaded.
>
> Geoff
>
That's what you'd do if you wanted to do a burnout.
For a wheelie you need to get the non-drive-wheels off the ground, which
would involve putting load *onto* the drive wheels and *off* the others.
and yes you'd need accelleration.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Oppose Mandatory Internet Censorship in Australia
nocleanfeed.com
Carol Hague
> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
> > Ah, another North-American with no idea about the British class system.
> > Those pesky lower-class regional accents letting the side down again,
> > eh.
>
> (S)he don't know me very well, do (s)he? But then there's no reason why
> (s)he should.
It seems, from what you post (which is all I have to go on) that your
image of life in the UK hasn't changed since you left, whereas *actual*
life in the UK *has* , quite a lot.
While nobody can be expected to know every detail of life in every other
country in the world, this means that Amethyst Deceiver's description of
you isn't quite as inaccurate as you might think it is.
GaryN
news:9jk5o4prca4alc817...@4ax.com:
Ah well, you can't have any old Tom, Dick or Harry, just because their
family have been titled for years, sitting in the HoL.
That won't do at all - what is required is a bunch of peers who give you
money and don't do undemocratic things like voting against your,
possibly illegal, legislation.
I personally liked it when the Lords was a real chamber which could put
a check on the lunatic schemes of incompetent ministers but that is,
alas, no more.
"This House (the Commons) votes to ignore the opinions of the Upper
House when it suits us, and to push through any Bill that we want to"
So why bother with a two House system?
gary
--
"We're just human; and we weren't as clever as we thought we were when
we needed to be.
That will be the epitaph on the gravestone of the human race"
Alistair Reynolds from 'House of Suns' (paraphrased)
Thomas Zahr
> I've heard the strategy is to select just ONE variety of each type of
> item. Other supermarkets can have tens of thousands of different items
> on their shelves, each of which costs a little bit to administer (and
> takes space). Aldi just have one of each item, so they need less shelf
> space and smaller overheads.
There are no exact numbers, but an Aldi store will have only, depending
on which of the two brothers owns it, 800 to 1200 SKU's [1].
A good retail productivity might be in the neighbourhood[2] of 3000 € per
sqm, Lidl is at about 7000, Aldi at about 10000.
[1] stock keeping unit (which might be a box containing 6 flavours of
joghurt, all with the same bar code
[2] I'm going on memory here
--
Cheers,
Thomas =:-)
Arthur Hagen
> Am Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:18:02 +1100 schrieb Geoff Field:
>
>> I've heard the strategy is to select just ONE variety of each type of
>> item. Other supermarkets can have tens of thousands of different
>> items on their shelves, each of which costs a little bit to
>> administer (and takes space). Aldi just have one of each item, so
>> they need less shelf space and smaller overheads.
>
> There are no exact numbers, but an Aldi store will have only,
> depending on which of the two brothers owns it, 800 to 1200 SKU's [1].
>
> A good retail productivity might be in the neighbourhood[2] of 3000 €
> per sqm, Lidl is at about 7000, Aldi at about 10000.
The number doesn't mean much. You can get 250 different kinds of breakfast
cereals and 500 different shampoos. But you can't ask them for meat cut a
certain way. Or fish that hasn't been cleaned.
One of the big problems with capitalism is that it leaves no room for those
who are less profitable, but still run a useful service. "Coexist
peacefully" isn't in the capitalist vocabulary. It's eat or be eaten, until
government breaks you up for antitrust or monopoly violations. Then the
cycle repeats itself.
Regards,
--
*Art
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:01:52 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>>
>>>> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>>>>> Am Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:49:07 -0800 schrieb Lesley Weston:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From the cheap stores that closed long ago, and that also
>>>>>> underpaid and exploited their workforces
>>>>> Just for the record, one of the hardest of hard discounters, Aldi,
>>>>> pays the best wages in the business
>>>>>
>>>> Good for them! Where does their stock come from?
>>> Fresh food local
>>> General grocery stuff Germany and Europe
>>> Rest all over, same as anybody else
>>>
>> Aldi are just a grocery store? I thought, from their being compared to
>> Walmart, that they must be an everything store. If they are, then their
>> goods other than food are probably made at starvation wages by
>> children and/or prisoners in China and Third-world countries, like
>> those sold by Walmart and every other discount store in every
>> First-world country.
>
> I bought this here computer from an Aldi here in Melbourne.
Where was it made?
<snip>
>> But it's very much to their credit that they pay their own staff
>> properly.
>
> They save on the overheads so they can treat the important parts
> of their business properly.
That's the way to do it.
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
>
>>> Ah, another North-American with no idea about the British class system.
>>> Those pesky lower-class regional accents letting the side down again,
>>> eh.
>> (S)he don't know me very well, do (s)he? But then there's no reason why
>> (s)he should.
>
> It seems, from what you post (which is all I have to go on) that your
> image of life in the UK hasn't changed since you left, whereas *actual*
> life in the UK *has* , quite a lot.
>
> While nobody can be expected to know every detail of life in every other
> country in the world, this means that Amethyst Deceiver's description of
> you isn't quite as inaccurate as you might think it is.
>
the UK class system to change in any but superficial ways, besides
which I read things written in the UK (including most of afp) that
indicate that there really hasn't been much change - see Alec's post a
little way up there. Canada has its own class system of course, but it's
far less pervasive into every aspect of life, and it has to do almost
entirely with money.
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>> Larry Moore wrote:
> <snip>
>>> and deal directly with the factories,
>>> we could free up enough money to pay decently, enforce quality standards
>>> and provide domestic employment for our knowledge workers designing
>>> goods appropriate to our needs.
>>
>> Enough money to provide everybody in the world with the life-style
>> that we demand for ourselves?
>
> This rather assumes that the rest of the world actually *wants* that
> lifestyle.
Yes, that was the wrong term. I should have said standard of living.
>
>>> I like the idea of helping the third
>>> world to work their way out of poverty but see no reason to bakshis
>>> american corporations at the same time.
>>
>> I'm all for supporting Canadian companies, but if a company's not
>> Canadian I don't see that it matters which country holds its head
>> office. And don't forget that even Timmy's [1] is American.
>>
>> [1] Tim Horton's, for non-Canadians. Iconic "Canadian" supplier of
>> doughnuts, given to advertising itself with a picture of a cup of its
>> coffee and the slogan "True patriot love".
>
> While it is true that for a time TDL group was wholly owned by Wendy's
> International, this is no longer the case. Tim Horton's started in
> Canada and is still headquartered in Canada. It's a publicly traded
> company, so exact location of ownership is fuzzy at best...
The important thing is where the profits go.
Lesley Weston
Yes, I wasn't allowing for that. We also buy a few items from the local
one-off store that costs so much more than the others, because that's
the only place we can find them. However, most of their stock is the
same as that in the cheaper big-box stores, and still costs much more in
the one-off than it does in the big-box.