Can someone explain this to me?
Parallax
Macross... and my question is:
How, by any means, can anyone prefer Robotech over Macross? It
completely defies all logic!
Let's do a quick comparison:
Intro: Robotech introduction music almost sends me to sleep and the
opening footage is just silly.
Macross intro music is definitely rousing and has a much
better tune.
Actually, Macross music blows Robotech music completely out of the
water; 'My boyfriend is a pilot' and 'Little white dragon' are so much
better than 'we will win' .... christ, 'we will win' makes me cringe in
agony whenever I hear it - By God, it's awful.
Actually, I don't think there is even one half-decent Robotech song.
Some of those Robotech songs ... how did they think *anyone* would like
them? Gah! The horror! The horror!
'Minmei's' concert - wherein the song she sings clearly doesn't match
even her body movements - ie, you don't do a rock style swing from side
to side when singing some sort of love song - a five year old knows
that.
Actually, pretty much all the dubbing in Robotech was bordering on the
pathetic - with lines that matched neither the situation nor the lip
synch at all.
Robotech Masters? Protocultured powered mecha? They think these were
*improvements*? Bah!
SDF-2? SDF-3? Why did they bother? None of these elements added
*anything* to the story at all and made it all the more confusing.
In Macross, Minmay Lynn is at least bareable (if not actually likeable)
- but Lynn Minmei is nothing more than a twisted mockery; like some
ghoulish reflection in a sideshow mirror.
Plus, there's also the way that Robotech confuses the living hell out of
all those new to the anime scene and also the way Harmony Gold doesn't
like anyone treading on 'their' product (we all know it's not theirs,
but let's let them live their little fantasy out, shall we?).
BTW, anyone actually bothered to see the Harmony Gold website? Heh. A
bit of a laugh.
What *I* would like to see is someone to do a proper, full translation
of Macross - ie, No mass amounts of editing, no changing massive slabs
of dialogue, no friggin' Robotech Masters. It would be really nice to
see a faithful translation for a change.
IMHO, Robotech is nothing more than the raped remains of Macross and it
completely eludes me how anyone can prefer RT over the true, original
series.
- Parallax,
expecting to get flamed for this one but really doesn't give a hoot.
Tim
"Parallax" <halj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39A4E409...@hotmail.com...
> I'm lucky, I have seen both the full series of Robotech and Sub-titled
> Macross... and my question is:
>
> How, by any means, can anyone prefer Robotech over Macross? It
> completely defies all logic!
>
Yup, that's right. The proof you give for this below is not an opinion, it's
fact.
> Let's do a quick comparison:
>
> Intro: Robotech introduction music almost sends me to sleep and the
> opening footage is just silly.
> Macross intro music is definitely rousing and has a much
> better tune.
>
> Actually, Macross music blows Robotech music completely out of the
> water; 'My boyfriend is a pilot' and 'Little white dragon' are so much
> better than 'we will win' .... christ, 'we will win' makes me cringe in
> agony whenever I hear it - By God, it's awful.
> Actually, I don't think there is even one half-decent Robotech song.
>
> Some of those Robotech songs ... how did they think *anyone* would like
> them? Gah! The horror! The horror!
> 'Minmei's' concert - wherein the song she sings clearly doesn't match
> even her body movements - ie, you don't do a rock style swing from side
> to side when singing some sort of love song - a five year old knows
> that.
>
Sure, everyone knows the required way to move when you sing a song. When
Minmei didn't move to her song with exactly the right body movements it
ruined my day.
> Actually, pretty much all the dubbing in Robotech was bordering on the
> pathetic - with lines that matched neither the situation nor the lip
> synch at all.
>
Robotech was a horrible dub for it's time. Hey, wasn't Robotech supposed to
be a translation of Macross? Before Robotech, there were dubs far superior
to it like Speed Racer, 8th Man, and Battle of the Planets. Those 14 or so
experienced ADR directors and staff writers that worked on Robotech did not
know what they were doing at all. They made the decisions that they did
because they hated Macross.
> Robotech Masters? Protocultured powered mecha? They think these were
> *improvements*? Bah!
> SDF-2? SDF-3? Why did they bother? None of these elements added
> *anything* to the story at all and made it all the more confusing.
>
> In Macross, Minmay Lynn is at least bareable (if not actually likeable)
Isn't her Chinese name "Lynn Minmay"?
> - but Lynn Minmei is nothing more than a twisted mockery; like some
> ghoulish reflection in a sideshow mirror.
>
> Plus, there's also the way that Robotech confuses the living hell out of
> all those new to the anime scene and also the way Harmony Gold doesn't
> like anyone treading on 'their' product (we all know it's not theirs,
> but let's let them live their little fantasy out, shall we?).
> BTW, anyone actually bothered to see the Harmony Gold website? Heh. A
> bit of a laugh.
>
> What *I* would like to see is someone to do a proper, full translation
> of Macross - ie, No mass amounts of editing, no changing massive slabs
> of dialogue, no friggin' Robotech Masters. It would be really nice to
> see a faithful translation for a change.
>
They made one in 1984, before Revell came in with the mecha design rights
and the "Robotech" name. If you want the subtitled DVDs, go to
www.animeigo.com.
> IMHO, Robotech is nothing more than the raped remains of Macross and it
> completely eludes me how anyone can prefer RT over the true, original
> series.
>
> - Parallax,
> expecting to get flamed for this one but really doesn't give a hoot.
>
No, I agree. Robotech is only its first 36 episodes. It's not Robotech
Masters, New Generation, Untold Story, The Sentinels, or 3000. It's just
Macross. Macross is the the anime universe that really exists, not Robotech.
:)
-Tim the Macross purist
Sean O'Mara
> I'm lucky, I have seen both the full series of Robotech and Sub-titled
> Macross... and my question is:
>
> How, by any means, can anyone prefer Robotech over Macross? It
> completely defies all logic!
Because people have different opinions on certain things, really rather
simple really...
> Let's do a quick comparison:
>
> Intro: Robotech introduction music almost sends me to sleep and the
> opening footage is just silly.
> Macross intro music is definitely rousing and has a much
> better tune.
The Robotech intro brings back a lot of fond memories for me, the Macross
theme just doesn't have that importance to me. I'd have to say I prefer the
Robotech intro for that reason alone...
> Actually, Macross music blows Robotech music completely out of the
> water; 'My boyfriend is a pilot' and 'Little white dragon' are so much
> better than 'we will win' .... christ, 'we will win' makes me cringe in
> agony whenever I hear it - By God, it's awful.
> Actually, I don't think there is even one half-decent Robotech song.
There's a difference between stating an opinion and forcing an opinion.
Just because you like something better than something else, doesn't mean
everyone else has to. C'mon, weren't we supposed to learn this in 3rd
grade? I personally enjoy most of the Robotech movie songs, as well as the
Michael Bradley stuff. But hey, I prefer the English version of 'Voices'
over the Japanese version.
> Some of those Robotech songs ... how did they think *anyone* would like
> them? Gah! The horror! The horror!
> 'Minmei's' concert - wherein the song she sings clearly doesn't match
> even her body movements - ie, you don't do a rock style swing from side
> to side when singing some sort of love song - a five year old knows
> that.
Well, yeah, I'll concede on that point.
> Actually, pretty much all the dubbing in Robotech was bordering on the
> pathetic - with lines that matched neither the situation nor the lip
> synch at all.
Personally I really liked the dubbing on Robotech, far better than the
stuff done nowadays for Gundam Wing and Dragon Ball Z. Especially
considering it was 15 years ago, I think it was pretty good.
> Robotech Masters? Protocultured powered mecha? They think these were
> *improvements*? Bah!
> SDF-2? SDF-3? Why did they bother? None of these elements added
> *anything* to the story at all and made it all the more confusing.
Improvements? Not necessarily. But they were necessary to bridge the three
stories together. The SDF-2 was added to explain the three mounds in The
Robotech Masters, while the SDF-3 was used to explain the disapearence of
Rick Hunter and the rest of the Macross Saga crew.
> In Macross, Minmay Lynn is at least bareable (if not actually likeable)
> - but Lynn Minmei is nothing more than a twisted mockery; like some
> ghoulish reflection in a sideshow mirror.
She was selfish, bratty, and a bit of a jerk. Considering she was a 16 year
old starlet, I'd say thats probably pretty accurate.
> Plus, there's also the way that Robotech confuses the living hell out of
> all those new to the anime scene and also the way Harmony Gold doesn't
> like anyone treading on 'their' product (we all know it's not theirs,
> but let's let them live their little fantasy out, shall we?).
> BTW, anyone actually bothered to see the Harmony Gold website? Heh. A
> bit of a laugh.
What does this have to do with the quality of the series? Whats important
is that its entertaining, some people find that it is, some people dont.
Which reminds me, where's Studio Nue's webpage?
> What *I* would like to see is someone to do a proper, full translation
> of Macross - ie, No mass amounts of editing, no changing massive slabs
> of dialogue, no friggin' Robotech Masters. It would be really nice to
> see a faithful translation for a change.
I believe Harmony Gold tried this, but couldn't because of episode
requirements for American syndication.
> IMHO, Robotech is nothing more than the raped remains of Macross and it
> completely eludes me how anyone can prefer RT over the true, original
> series.
The reason people can prefer Robotech over Macross is because everyone is
different, and has different opinions. What eludes me is why this newsgroup
spends so much time bashing Robotech.
Sean
"Musashi was not afraid to die, but his objective was to win definitively,
not just survive, and he was trying to build up the confidence to do so.
Let others die heroic deaths, if that suited them. Musashi could settle for
nothing less than a heroic victory." - Musashi, Eiji Yoshikawa (1892-1962)
kyrieleison
weyland...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Parallax wrote:
What eludes me is why this newsgroup
> spends so much time bashing Robotech.
>
> Sean
A few months ago, I haven't seen one negative word mentioned towards
Harmony Gold or Robotech on this NG. Much of the group focused on the
new YF-19 Macross Plus Toycom toy. Posts were inspired by Toycom's PR
man Auden who filled us in on developments. Basara was also another
topic. Praise him or mock him.
Then came the news that Harmony Gold was going to use it's license,
which decreed that they have all rights over anything Macross in the
US, to fight over royalty rights for the Macross Plus Toycom toys. This
was time just before the toys were to be released here in the states.
Naturally this angered most of the loyal fans. There was a previous
fight over Robotech and Macross purists but it died out years ago. This
unfortunate move by HG just reopened the wounds. Obviously angered fans
here take their time to bash HG and their work. It might all turn out
well since the legal battle has allowed the Toycom company to make the
upcoming improvements during the delay. However not a minute goes by
where Auden and Toycom are losing money. And macross purists are
angered by the principality of it.
The arguments have evolved from legal rights, ethical rights, money
smooching, plagerism, destruction of original story, continuity,
techinical accuracy to which one is down right better.
Well, that's how I see it.
Drew
**************************************************
The real truth is that I probably don't want to
be too happy or content, cuz then what? I actually
like the quest, the search, that's the fun, the
more lost you are, the more you have to look
forward to, what do you know, I'm having a great
time and I don't even know it.
**************************************************
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Keith
>that because R:TMS wasn't just a dub of Macross. In Robotech, it is part of
>a bigger story that is totally different.
No, it's an altered version of Macross borrowing the majority of itself from
Macross (because it's Macross hacked up & altered).
>This is the misinformation that
>gets people confused and they start calling Macross 7 or Macross Plus
>"Robotech". And then some people will say they hate Robotech then complain
>that it's not an accurate translation of Macross, but it's not even supposed
>to be.
Actually, yes, it "is" supposed to be. It didn't turn out to be, but in
licensing Macross, artistic integrity demands that a proper release be done. If
you want to make your own story, then make your own, leave other peoples work
alone.
>I own a copy of Harmony Gold's pre-Robotech Macross dub (see the
>comic book Macross #1) and there is a huge difference between when they were
>trying to do a dub and when they later were making Robotech.
Still had the bad theme song & name changes.
>They use the
>correct Macross words and terms like "Hayase", "Captain Global". "GERWALK"
>(but they say it like "jehrwalk"),
Much like in the Mospeada dub pilot, where they pronounced Legioss
"Redgy-Oh's."
>"The Macross", and "Atalia Island"(sp?).
>And this dub was produced by Carl Macek. So anyway my point is that there is
>a clear distiction between the actions of the characters Rick Hunter and
>Hikaru Ichijo. The two characters look alike because R:TMS uses Macross
>footage or if you're looking for an internal answer, they are in separate
>realities.
>
>-Tim
Uses Macross footage, Macross story elements, & attempts to change things
enough to make a new story, but all that happens is that an already existing
story is hampered by someone elses lack of creativity.
>Sure, everyone knows the required way to move when you sing a song. When
>Minmei didn't move to her song with exactly the right body movements it
>ruined my day.
Not to mention perfectly good songs were replaced with crap.
>Robotech was a horrible dub for it's time. Hey, wasn't Robotech supposed to
>be a translation of Macross? Before Robotech, there were dubs far superior
>to it like Speed Racer, 8th Man, and Battle of the Planets. Those 14 or so
>experienced ADR directors and staff writers that worked on Robotech did not
>know what they were doing at all. They made the decisions that they did
>because they hated Macross.
Nope, they were just highly uncreative, trying to make their own series out of
pre-existing ones. And bad translations existing before does not justify it
being done again.
>Isn't her Chinese name "Lynn Minmay"?
No, her Chinese name is Lin Minmei, her stage name is Lynn Minmay. Her first
name being Minmay/Minmei, sir name being Lin/Lynn.
>They made one in 1984, before Revell came in with the mecha design rights
>and the "Robotech" name. If you want the subtitled DVDs, go to
>www.animeigo.com.
The dub pilot was also too altered to be considered an accurate translation
(see "Rick Yamato"), the AnimEigo release finally qualifying.
>> IMHO, Robotech is nothing more than the raped remains of Macross and it
>> completely eludes me how anyone can prefer RT over the true, original
>> series.
>>
>> - Parallax,
>> expecting to get flamed for this one but really doesn't give a hoot.
>>
>
>No, I agree. Robotech is only its first 36 episodes.
Yup, when the majority remembers Robotech, they think Macross.
>It's not Robotech
>Masters,
Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross.
>New Generation,
Genesis Climber MOSPEADA.
>Untold Story,
Megazone 23 Part-I
>The Sentinels,
The only thing that can be considered to be an original Robotech production,
and as such, the only thing that is truly Robotech, even though Mospeada &
Southern Cross designs are still used, as is Macross stock footage, so even
then, far from entirely original.
>or 3000.
Yet to enter existence.
>It's just
>Macross. Macross is the the anime universe that really exists, not Robotech.
>:)
Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, Megazone 23 Part-I,
& Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross.
>-Tim the Macross purist
You should be so lucky.
~Keith
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
~~~
ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
CavScout
> The reason people can prefer Robotech over Macross is because
everyone is
> different, and has different opinions. What eludes me is why this
newsgroup
> spends so much time bashing Robotech.
It is simple. As much as Macross fans despise Robotech they know it has
done more in the American market than Macross has. Robotech made it
mainstream, Macross was relegated to the niche market. Simple envy
really...
Cav
--
"God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
Russell
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
Franklin, 1759
kyrieleison
CavScout <cavs...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <39A5067C...@mindspring.com>,
> weyland...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > The reason people can prefer Robotech over Macross is because
> everyone is
> > different, and has different opinions. What eludes me is why this
> newsgroup
> > spends so much time bashing Robotech.
>
> It is simple. As much as Macross fans despise Robotech they know it
has
> done more in the American market than Macross has. Robotech made it
> mainstream, Macross was relegated to the niche market. Simple envy
> really...
>
> Cav
Macross was first introduced to the US via robotech. And Harmony Gold
has my thanks for doing so. It's introduced the masses to the world of
anime, manga, and other Japanese related products. Perhaps more of the
American public knows of Robotech over Macross. But I doubt if any of
the Robotech bashers have any envy over this. In fact alot of those who
do perfer Macross over Robotech have some sort of pride that they did
step out of the mainstream. They don't care at all. Elite-sim, if you
will. But not to the point of keeping the orginal Macross a secret.
They've got more of a teacher mentality bringing people to the world of
anime showing you the original for what it is.
Think of Robotech as the bridge that brings people over to the world of
anime. Macross Fans are more than willing to teach and convert the
uninitiated. Listen to Minmay's real voice and her songs. Watch all the
parts that have cut out by censors. Part of anime's appeal is that it's
much more graphic than cartoons. Not to say that Robotech didn't have
deaths and adult issues, but it did leave out some pretty violent
scenes.
I remember watching Starblazers where they were offering each
other "spring water" and "cake". Years later I'd find out it was really
sushi and saki. It was really strange to find the characters acting so
strange after consuming spring water. It's lost the original meaning
and I would have wanted someone to explain it to me what was lost in
the translation.
Drew
**************************************************
Keith
>done more in the American market than Macross has. Robotech made it
>mainstream, Macross was relegated to the niche market. Simple envy
>really...
>
>Cav
Ah, the typical "Robotech made the anime industry in the U.S. mainstream" myth
that Robotech fans tend to enjoy perpetuating.
YF21Bowman
>done more in the American market than Macross has. Robotech made it
>mainstream, Macross was relegated to the niche market. Simple envy
>really...
>
You're a jerk, Cav.
Guld Bowman
YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
remove "dooby" to mail me
"Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
"Power to the rainbow..."-Nekki Basara-Fire Bomber!
Tim
"Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o4jem$4hj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <sq9t4r...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote:
> > Robotech was a horrible dub for it's time. Hey, wasn't Robotech
> supposed to
> > be a translation of Macross?
>
> though. Had to have at least 65 to air. That's why HG added Southern
> Cross and Mospeada and changed the storyline.
>
> FYI
>
> --
> Captian Gloval
> SDF-1 CO
Only Revell called it Robotech before they combined Macross with the other 2
series. And SDF Macross is 36 episodes, but you basically got it right.
-Tim
Jeffrey T. Jhee
kyrieleison wrote:
>
> I remember watching Starblazers where they were offering each
> other "spring water" and "cake". Years later I'd find out it was really
> sushi and saki.
I wonder why many people spell and pronounce "sake" as "saki." (I don't
say this as to offend you, but simply to explain an observation.) I
know I was one of the many offenders.
--
*****
Jeffrey T. Jhee
j-j...@nwu.edu
AIM: MahKuRoss ICQ: 4289637
David H.
delayed. (The point of "HG isn't the bad guy" is invalid--I don't care if IBM
filed the suit, it still makes us angry)
David H.
(please remove "nospam" to reply via e-mail)
Captian Gloval
Keith
>though. Had to have at least 65 to air. That's why HG added Southern
>Cross and Mospeada and changed the storyline.
>
>FYI
Problem being they could just as easily have done it as an anthology, problem
solved.
O.D.
Why us?
Why not Dawson's Creek, Popular, and Young Americans (with a bastardized
Opposite Sex movie?) smooshed together, and called something silly (like
"Teenie Theque?")
Why us? Why did *we* get Harmony Gold?
*sigh* Ah well...
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000824233228...@ng-ck1.aol.com...
Parallax
Oh well, at least we didn't get Saban International ... did you see what they
did to Gatchaman? 'Eagle Riders'?! Bah!
I curse their non-sensical hides!
But yes, Harmony Gold really don't seem to have clue 1 about what they're
doing...
- Parallax
CavScout
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> Ah, the typical "Robotech made the anime industry in the U.S.
mainstream" myth
> that Robotech fans tend to enjoy perpetuating.
No myth that Robotech is/was more popular than you precious Macross.
Simple fact. It is also fact that many anime fans got their first taste
of anime with Robotech. You may not like either but it harldy negates
them.
cav
CavScout
yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
> >It is simple. As much as Macross fans despise Robotech they know it
has
> >done more in the American market than Macross has. Robotech made it
> >mainstream, Macross was relegated to the niche market. Simple envy
> >really...
> >
>
> You're a jerk, Cav.
I'd rather be the jerk that's right then your buddy and wrong.
Cav
CavScout
ncc4...@aol.comnospam (David H.) wrote:
> No, not really envy, more like being really pissed off that are Valks
are
> delayed. (The point of "HG isn't the bad guy" is invalid--I don't
care if IBM
> filed the suit, it still makes us angry)
While you may be angry, I still disagree with who you aim that anger
at. It seems that the Japanese were very willing to sell the rights to
these shows to just about anybody. Heck, even Robotech was created
partially because of the same screwy rights disposition. HG was FORCED
to call it Robotech by Revell who had been selling models of the
Macross vehicles.
Cav
--
"God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
Russell
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
Franklin, 1759
Phil
do dodododo, DoDo do do doooo dodo do dododo do do do doooooo!
Ah, the memories.....
"CavScout" <cavs...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o61lv$o3c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20000824164252...@ng-ck1.aol.com>,
> keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> > Ah, the typical "Robotech made the anime industry in the U.S.
> mainstream" myth
> > that Robotech fans tend to enjoy perpetuating.
>
> No myth that Robotech is/was more popular than you precious Macross.
> Simple fact. It is also fact that many anime fans got their first taste
> of anime with Robotech. You may not like either but it harldy negates
> them.
>
> cav
>
>
Keith
Power Rangers is still more popular than both, hardly makes it better.
>Simple fact. It is also fact that many anime fans got their first taste
>of anime with Robotech.\
Simple fact, many more got their first taste before Robotech & after Robotech.
Not to mention the industry hardly picked up with the release of Robotech, nor
was its popularity enough to warrent carrying the Sentinels.
>You may not like either but it harldy negates
>them.
>
>cav
Nope, your false claims of Robotech launching the anime industry is what
negates them.
Keith
>at. It seems that the Japanese were very willing to sell the rights to
>these shows to just about anybody. Heck, even Robotech was created
>partially because of the same screwy rights disposition. HG was FORCED
>to call it Robotech by Revell who had been selling models of the
>Macross vehicles.
>
>Cav
Nope, the blame rests soley with those abusing the rights, not with those
trusting companies with the rights.
Phil
show than Card Captors. As Macross is way better than Robotech.
Really, american companies really must learn about aritistic integrity.
Ya don't believe me? Go watch Card Captors on TV. Then ask me for the
links to the sub titled Card Captor Sakura. There is a difference.
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000825114038...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Keith
>show than Card Captors. As Macross is way better than Robotech.
>
>Really, american companies really must learn about aritistic integrity.
>
>Ya don't believe me? Go watch Card Captors on TV. Then ask me for the
>links to the sub titled Card Captor Sakura. There is a difference.
Difference being that luckily Pioneer has stepped in (as they are with the S &
SS seasons of Sailor Moon), and decided to release an uncut sub on DVD, almost
immediately after the tv dub.
Sean O'Mara
> I'd rather be the jerk that's right then your buddy and wrong.
>
> Cav
I think an interesting thing about Cav's actions is that he's doing
exactly what some people on this newsgroup tend to do, be a jerk (no
offense intended, Cav). The difference is that instead of being a jerk
bashing Robotech, he's a jerk standing up for Robotech. In effect his
actions are a creation of this newsgroup, you guys created him. That
being said, I still agree with him pretty much all of the time.
Either way its funny seeing you guys get a taste of your own medicine.
YF21Bowman
>
>Cav
>
Too bad you're a jerk and wrong.
Captian Gloval
weyland...@mindspring.com wrote:
>What eludes me is why this newsgroup
> spends so much time bashing Robotech.
>
>
> --
> weyland...@mindspring.com
>
Because to many of the people on this news group follow the "It's my
way or the highway" way of thinking.
I personally like both Robotech and Macross. With out Robotech, as I
have said before wither certain ppl on this news group like it or not,
a
lot of the people that even know what the h*ll Macross is wouldn't.
Robotech brought anime to the adolescences of the mid 80'. If you
don't
believe it or like it, tough. Look at when anime got popular. Yes a
few of you watched it before 84-87, but not all of you. Or a majority
of you either. Shows like Robotech, Transformers, and the early Gundam
series are what have built the anime fan base in the US. Look it up
instead of just bashing it like a lot of you do.
I look at the dubbing done at that time and see the Robotech dubbing as
a norm. They didn't change that much of the animation for the Macross
Saga of Robotech. The name changes were made because a 10 yr old could
relate to "Rick Hunter" but wouldn't be comfortable with "Hikaru
Ichijyo" because Americans were raised to be stereotypical and
prejudiced. The music was WRITEN FOR THE 80s, not for all time.
Cartoons didn't last that ling and wern't written to stand the test of
generations.
"Robotech Masters? Protoculture powered mecha? They think these were
*improvements*?" No, nor was it ever said that they were supposed to
be. It's called continuity. Read a few books. Story continuity is,
in the long run, more important then most other elements in the story.
Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
One last thing of note. Notice how ALL kinds of Macross fans bash
Robotech with out understanding it, but very few Robotech fans bash
Macross. Things that make ya say Hmmm....
--
Captian Gloval
SDF-1 CO
Keith
>exactly what some people on this newsgroup tend to do, be a jerk (no
>offense intended, Cav). The difference is that instead of being a jerk
>bashing Robotech, he's a jerk standing up for Robotech. In effect his
>actions are a creation of this newsgroup, you guys created him. That
>being said, I still agree with him pretty much all of the time.
We didn't create him, and the only reason Cav is here is because he's still mad
about losing that little debate, I left his little board upon request, and came
here looking for me because I didn't try to stay.
>Either way its funny seeing you guys get a taste of your own medicine.
>
>Sean
Our own medicine how? We have a legitimate grievence with a piece of crap
attempt to mangle someone elses art, and acknowledge it as such, as well as the
people who did it.
YF21Bowman
>exactly what some people on this newsgroup tend to do, be a jerk (no
>offense intended, Cav)
So, basically, he's ok because he's being a jerk to us. Why do you guys even
post here if you do not enjoy Macross. I don't go watching the WWF and Robotech
boards to pick fights with people.
Tim
> >No myth that Robotech is/was more popular than you precious Macross.
>
> Power Rangers is still more popular than both, hardly makes it better.
>
> >Simple fact. It is also fact that many anime fans got their first taste
> >of anime with Robotech.\
>
> Simple fact, many more got their first taste before Robotech & after
Robotech.
> Not to mention the industry hardly picked up with the release of Robotech,
nor
> was its popularity enough to warrent carrying the Sentinels.
>
> >You may not like either but it harldy negates
> >them.
> >
> >cav
>
> Nope, your false claims of Robotech launching the anime industry is what
> negates them.
>
> ~Keith
Actually it was Reiji Matsumoto's anime like Captain Harlock and Starblazers
that really got America interested. The 60s had a sort of "proto-fandom"
when a bunch of anime titles went into syndication in America like Astro
Boy, Eight Man, Gigantor, Kimba The White Lion, Prince Planet, Marine Boy,
The Amazing 3, Speed Racer, and Mazinger Z.
In 1977 the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization had its first meeting, right around
the time that the first VCRs reached the consumer market, and is generally
considered to be the beginning of the first real anime fandom in America.
Around this time anime fans were watching shows like Star Blazers, Battle of
the Planets, and Force Five.
Then, in September of 1984, Harmony Gold released their Space Fortress
Macross Boobytrap tape, which was the first American-produced animated title
to emphasize its Japanese origins and cultural influences as assets, rather
than ignore or try to hide them. The next year, Robotech went into American
syndication, and produced a huge wave of fans that would create a demand for
the first professionally subtitled anime tapes. Robotech was mostly
responsible for the late 80's interest in anime in America.
-Tim
Tim
mostly based on what ratings they think they'll get for them, which leads to
more advertising money. It has more to do with the producers' and the
audience's perceptions of "cartoons", which after all this time persists.
The "cartoon" stereotype is very hard to get rid of, and TV, which caters to
stereotypes, is a very difficult place to get something like that changed.
-Tim
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:BEwp5.22256$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> Such as Nelvana with it's Card Captors. Card Captor Sakura was a way
better
> show than Card Captors. As Macross is way better than Robotech.
>
> Really, american companies really must learn about aritistic integrity.
>
> Ya don't believe me? Go watch Card Captors on TV. Then ask me for the
> links to the sub titled Card Captor Sakura. There is a difference.
>
> "Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000825114038...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
> > >While you may be angry, I still disagree with who you aim that anger
> > >at. It seems that the Japanese were very willing to sell the rights to
> > >these shows to just about anybody. Heck, even Robotech was created
> > >partially because of the same screwy rights disposition. HG was FORCED
> > >to call it Robotech by Revell who had been selling models of the
> > >Macross vehicles.
> > >
> > >Cav
> >
> > Nope, the blame rests soley with those abusing the rights, not with
those
> > trusting companies with the rights.
> >
Tim
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000825183314...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Parallax created this thread. And Keith fans the flames of all these
flamewars. If you want to play hardball and knowingly sling mud at someone
else's favorite show, then don't whine that they're coming into the
newsgroup just to pick on you. And BTW, I love watching Macross, but lately
I haven't been able to watch, because it makes me hate it when it's used
against Robotech.
-Tim
Phil
Sean O'Mara
> >I think an interesting thing about Cav's actions is that he's doing
> >exactly what some people on this newsgroup tend to do, be a jerk (no
> >offense intended, Cav)
>
> So, basically, he's ok because he's being a jerk to us. Why do you guys even
> post here if you do not enjoy Macross. I don't go watching the WWF and Robotech
> boards to pick fights with people.
Who said we don't enjoy Macross? I have never said that, and I don't believe Cav
has either. I'm a big Macross fan, as well as a Robotech fan. We aren't picking
the fights either, Parallax started the thread, he started the fight. We merely
chimed in with our opinions.
Dosun1
Also the Japanese companies must start looking after their product once it hits
the states. They still can control how their product is portrayed once it hits
the states. For example in Escaflowne, Bandai stepped in when Fox wanted to
replace Yoko Kanno's music, plus I noticed all the names are the same (so far).
Captian Gloval
yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
> >I'd rather be the jerk that's right then your buddy and wrong.
> >
> >Cav
> >
>
> Too bad you're a jerk and wrong.
Opinions are never wrong. Look up this word also. Facts can be right
or wrong, opinions are just what they are. Personal thought and
feelings. You mix the two, that's why you keep getting cornered.
Old proverb:
Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one and no one thinks their's
stink.
YF21Bowman
>or wrong, opinions are just what they are. Personal thought and
>feelings. You mix the two, that's why you keep getting cornered.
>
Me? People are pushing equally hard against me for expressing my opinions. You
all are at least as guilty as me for persecuting people for their
beliefs..well...maybe not persecute. Annoy is a better word.
O.D.
Changing a certain orchestral score in favour of some gawd-awful Fox Kids
standard techno-garbage, f'rinstance.
I expected the Digimon to jump out at any moment in the middle of Van's
suit-up sequence so that they could fulfil their digi-destiny >_<
Enough complaints from me. Waiting patiently for DVDs.
"Dosun1" <dos...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20000825215807...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
O.D.
We go to war with America!!
@_@
(*O.D. launches the Ghost X-9 from the West Edmonton Mall...)
"Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:sqdu6v...@corp.supernews.com...
> They aren't making the shows like this out of evil. What they put on TV is
> mostly based on what ratings they think they'll get for them, which leads
to
> more advertising money. It has more to do with the producers' and the
> audience's perceptions of "cartoons", which after all this time persists.
> The "cartoon" stereotype is very hard to get rid of, and TV, which caters
to
> stereotypes, is a very difficult place to get something like that changed.
>
> -Tim
>
> "Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:BEwp5.22256$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> > Such as Nelvana with it's Card Captors. Card Captor Sakura was a way
> better
> > show than Card Captors. As Macross is way better than Robotech.
> >
> > Really, american companies really must learn about aritistic integrity.
> >
Phil
> I personally like both Robotech and Macross. With out Robotech, as I
> have said before wither certain ppl on this news group like it or not,
> a
> lot of the people that even know what the h*ll Macross is wouldn't.
> Robotech brought anime to the adolescences of the mid 80'.
Nope, started watching it in Hong Kong. No Robotech for me ^_^.
Shows like Robotech, Transformers, and the early Gundam
> series are what have built the anime fan base in the US. Look it up
> instead of just bashing it like a lot of you do.
They have never shown Mobile Suit Gundam on TV in the states. You get YOUR
facts straight.
> One last thing of note. Notice how ALL kinds of Macross fans bash
> Robotech with out understanding it, but very few Robotech fans bash
> Macross. Things that make ya say Hmmm....
Hmmm..That Robotech fans can't diss the series that their beloved following
is derived from? It's like dissing Sentai, but loving the Power Rangers.
Really. Robotech came after Macross. It will always be compared to
Macross. And if the majority of Macross fans dislike Robotech, whatcha
gonna do foo? NOTHING!
YF21Bowman
>
::smashes Canada with a bazillion nuclear weapons:: bwahaha! Teach you to mess
with a country a zillion times more powerful than your own!
I'm only joking. I don't want to hear about how I'm so anti-Canada, or I'm such
a fascist, etc.
O.D.
That was the unromantic version.
This is the romantic version:
The Canadian Military raided the Avro building and burned all the
blueprints. Our hero Auden took the last YF-19 and crashed it into a part
of the ocean where immediate recovery would be impossible for many fiscal
years to come.
Canada would then go on to buy a costly, and rather substandard means of
entertainment from Japan.
Another sad tale in Canadian history.
Everyone say hello once more to "WebTV Phil." He no longer posts in
HTML--may his wisdom enlighten the future, and yet have his name confuse
others...
Cheers!
"Phil" <LBCsu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21814-39...@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Where is my YF-19?
>
YF21Bowman
>
They're out of stock. If you want to wait around awhile, stick your order in
and pray.
O.D.
Just thought I'd help you out there, Bowman!!
LOL!!
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000825230603...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
YF21Bowman
>eehhmm... Keith would say "oppress"
>
>Just thought I'd help you out there, Bowman!!
>
>LOL!!
>
:)
=
O.D.
a super-secret geofront, fortified by the Canadian Shield.
And the Greater Toronto Area is in fact a fully retractable city.
From now on, we shall be launching EVA at your ass, every hour, on the hour,
until you submit to us!!!
Meanwhile, we shall live safely underground, all the while reminded that our
children are smarter than yours.
Canada: We may look wussy, but ask yourself:
"Why hasn't the U.S. attacked them in such a long time?"
The simple answer?
Fear.
Thank you. Good night.
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000825233525...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
O.D.
one with a pilot's license! The one in the Air Force!
See? Follow the arrow! (I hope the arrow works this time) >_<
|
|
|
|
V
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:5TGp5.23469$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Parallax
> them.
I don't know about America, but Australia's first taste of anime came with
shows like Ulysses 31, Astroboy, Kimba the White Lion, Mysterious Cities of
Gold, and a few others which were shown waaaaay before Robotech ever was.
- Parallax
Oyan
halj...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I'm lucky, I have seen both the full series of Robotech and Sub-titled
> Macross... and my question is:
That is lucky. I've only seen The Macross Saga of Robotech, and I
haven't seen Macross (TV) at all.
> How, by any means, can anyone prefer Robotech over Macross? It
> completely defies all logic!
I don't think anyone knows why anyone perfers anything over something
else. I mean, there is no really way to tell why.
> Let's do a quick comparison:
>
> Intro: Robotech introduction music almost sends me to sleep and the
> opening footage is just silly.
> Macross intro music is definitely rousing and has a much
> better tune.
There is one song that I like that is Robotech, that is that one she
sang when Rick and her were stuck inside the SDF-1... (Note: I'm
talking about Robotech, so I thought I'd use the Robotech terms, I have
see ppl been flamed for this, and I don't want to be one of them, even
though it's all pointless...in a sense, anyway.) ... and the lyrics
were something like "...to be in love, to live a dream...", something
like that, I don't really remember. Anyway, that is the one I like.
There is also this "...my time to be a star..." song that I find
okay.... But if anything, I like the BGM. I mean, I love "Broken
Heart" (my fav. from Robotech), "Private Time", the "Main Title" (not
sure if that's correct), "Desolation", "Reconstruction Blues", "Roy
Fokker Theme", "The 15th Squadron", "Love Theme", "Catastrophe", "Love
Triangle", "Earth Government Theme", and "SDF-1 Theme". I like all of
those a lot, and I mean a lot, and that's the BGM of course....
> Actually, Macross music blows Robotech music completely out of the
> water; 'My boyfriend is a pilot' and 'Little white dragon' are so
much
> better than 'we will win' .... christ, 'we will win' makes me cringe
in
> agony whenever I hear it - By God, it's awful.
> Actually, I don't think there is even one half-decent Robotech song.
Well, I can't compare here, but I do know there are decent BGM songs.
> Some of those Robotech songs ... how did they think *anyone* would
like
> them?
I like the BGM...and one/two other songs....
> Robotech Masters? Protocultured powered mecha? They think these were
> *improvements*? Bah!
> SDF-2? SDF-3? Why did they bother? None of these elements added
> *anything* to the story at all and made it all the more confusing.
I'm guessing to make it their own, I don't know.
> Plus, there's also the way that Robotech confuses the living hell out
of
> all those new to the anime scene and also the way Harmony Gold doesn't
> like anyone treading on 'their' product (we all know it's not theirs,
> but let's let them live their little fantasy out, shall we?).
> BTW, anyone actually bothered to see the Harmony Gold website? Heh.
A
> bit of a laugh.
Well, I was confused at time cause of somewhat different reasons then
what you may be thinking about...I dunno....
> What *I* would like to see is someone to do a proper, full translation
> of Macross - ie, No mass amounts of editing, no changing massive
slabs
> of dialogue, no friggin' Robotech Masters. It would be really nice to
> see a faithful translation for a change.
I always would like to see a near close perfect translation when
watching anything that is dubbed, or subbed.
> IMHO, Robotech is nothing more than the raped remains of Macross....
I don't know about that....
Oyan
--
A Macross Fan For Life
A Robotech (The Macross Saga) Fan For Life
Phil
^_^
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MlHp5.23835$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
YF21Bowman
When the time's right... BAM! We'll be launching our super secret Mobile Suit
army, complete with mass produced Eva's and VF-22's. I mean, hell, everyone in
the US has one. Don't you guys?
Keith
>way or the highway" way of thinking.
No, we just don't put up with crap.
>I personally like both Robotech and Macross. With out Robotech, as I
>have said before wither certain ppl on this news group like it or not,
>a
>lot of the people that even know what the h*ll Macross is wouldn't.
Oh yes we would have, just like we knew about tons of other anime titiles.
>Robotech brought anime to the adolescences of the mid 80'. If you
>don't
>believe it or like it, tough.
Tough my ass, that's a complete & total load. Anime was no more popular after
Robotech than it was before.
>Look at when anime got popular.
After Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, & the Sci-Fi channel anime festivals if you
want to get picky. That and anime companies finally doing proper home releases.
None of which Robotech plays into. It didn't reach its current status until
after Pokemon.
>Yes a
>few of you watched it before 84-87, but not all of you.
And the majority not until well after. I would rank as those who watched
before.
>Or a majority
>of you either. Shows like Robotech, Transformers, and the early Gundam
>series are what have built the anime fan base in the US. Look it up
>instead of just bashing it like a lot of you do.
Bull, Gundam has not been shown in the U.S. until Gundam Wing. The first series
has never been released (will be next year). Many a person had their anime
teeth cut on shows well before Robotech, and many more well after. Few fall
into that "I only saw Robotech" bumper, and those that did didn't know any
different.
>I look at the dubbing done at that time and see the Robotech dubbing as
>a norm.
The dubbing was just as much crap for then as it is for now. Bad acting is bad
acting, period.
>They didn't change that much of the animation for the Macross
>Saga of Robotech.
They mixed it in with two other series, sounds like a significant change to me.
>The name changes were made because a 10 yr old could
>relate to "Rick Hunter" but wouldn't be comfortable with "Hikaru
>Ichijyo" because Americans were raised to be stereotypical and
>prejudiced.
A 10 year old could just as easily relate to "Hikaru Ichijyo" when given the
chance. It's the myth that they can't that's based in prejudice.
>The music was WRITEN FOR THE 80s, not for all time.
Doesn't make it any less the crap that it is.
>Cartoons didn't last that ling and wern't written to stand the test of
>generations.
Again, that is hardly an excuse.
>"Robotech Masters? Protoculture powered mecha? They think these were
>*improvements*?" No, nor was it ever said that they were supposed to
>be. It's called continuity.
Continuity my ass, there was no continuity, an attempt at one, but not nearly
enough effort.
>Read a few books. Story continuity is,
>in the long run, more important then most other elements in the story.
Then what happened to the continuity there? And no, a good story "with"
continuity is what stands.
>Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
>
>One last thing of note. Notice how ALL kinds of Macross fans bash
>Robotech with out understanding it, but very few Robotech fans bash
>Macross. Things that make ya say Hmmm....
That's because most Macross fans "do" understand Robotech, that's why we bash
it.
Keith
With legitimate questions.
>And Keith fans the flames of all these
>flamewars.
Take responsability for your own posts, I don't make you or anyone else post
anything.
>If you want to play hardball and knowingly sling mud at someone
>else's favorite show, then don't whine that they're coming into the
>newsgroup just to pick on you.
What mud, it's acknowledging it for what it is. If you're insecure with that,
it's your problem.
>And BTW, I love watching Macross, but lately
>I haven't been able to watch, because it makes me hate it when it's used
>against Robotech.
>
>-Tim
Again, that's "your" issue to deal with.
Keith
Most often spelled "Leji Matsumoto" by himself.
>anime like Captain Harlock and Starblazers
>that really got America interested. The 60s had a sort of "proto-fandom"
>when a bunch of anime titles went into syndication in America like Astro
>Boy, Eight Man, Gigantor, Kimba The White Lion, Prince Planet, Marine Boy,
>The Amazing 3, Speed Racer, and Mazinger Z.
Mazinger Z was shown in the 70's-80's.
>In 1977 the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization had its first meeting, right around
>the time that the first VCRs reached the consumer market, and is generally
>considered to be the beginning of the first real anime fandom in America.
>Around this time anime fans were watching shows like Star Blazers, Battle of
>the Planets, and Force Five.
>
>Then, in September of 1984, Harmony Gold released their Space Fortress
>Macross Boobytrap tape, which was the first American-produced animated title
>to emphasize its Japanese origins and cultural influences as assets, rather
>than ignore or try to hide them.
Though they still made some odd enough changes "Rick Yamato."
>The next year, Robotech went into American
>syndication, and produced a huge wave of fans that would create a demand for
>the first professionally subtitled anime tapes. Robotech was mostly
>responsible for the late 80's interest in anime in America.
>
>-Tim
Actually, fansubs existed well before Robotech, and fans wanted something not
dubbed after watching Robotech doesn't really help your case any. You also
leave out a few titles.
Keith
>mostly based on what ratings they think they'll get for them, which leads to
>more advertising money. It has more to do with the producers' and the
>audience's perceptions of "cartoons", which after all this time persists.
>The "cartoon" stereotype is very hard to get rid of, and TV, which caters to
>stereotypes, is a very difficult place to get something like that changed.
>
>-Tim
And it's even harder to get rid of when being perpetuated. Meanwhile, quality
is still being turned into crap.
Keith
>or wrong, opinions are just what they are. Personal thought and
>feelings. You mix the two, that's why you keep getting cornered.
Quick example. Two men are sitting in a room (they shall be known as man "A" &
man "B."). In this room is a table with an apple in the center, this apple has
been on the table for oh let's say...5 months. Man A is of the opinion that the
apple is entirely too rotted & moldty to eat, and would make anyone who did so
violently ill, while man B is of the opinion that it's perfectly fine to eat.
Now if man B eat's the apple, will he be any less violently ill if not dead
after eating said apple, just because he has the "opinion" that it was "ok" to
eat?
Opinions can very easily, and often are "wrong." Anyone who says different is
full of crap.
O.D.
Iraq was able to shoot down one of your much lauded stealth fighters.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SHOOT DOWN A *STEALTH* FIGHTER?
That's the state of American technology. Canada has nothing to fear here.
Do you know what'll happen when we shoot down your shoddy American rip-off
"VF-22?"
Do you know what'll happen when we send our EVAs out to crush your Mobile
Suits?
We get American prisoner slave labour, that's what happens.
Thank you.
Good night.
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000826083323...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> No, we're just being ultra-nice and luring you into a false sense of
security.
> When the time's right... BAM! We'll be launching our super secret Mobile
Suit
> army, complete with mass produced Eva's and VF-22's. I mean, hell,
everyone in
> the US has one. Don't you guys?
>
>
> >
O.D.
super-secret aircraft we've been hiding from the world!!
I'm telling you: Don't mess with us!!
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:kzOp5.24391$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> YOU GO GIRL!
> ^_^
>
> "O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MlHp5.23835$i5.9...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Tim
> >Actually it was Reiji Matsumoto's
>
> Most often spelled "Leji Matsumoto" by himself.
>
I used to spell it that way, but I was going for the romanji approach.
> >anime like Captain Harlock and Starblazers
> >that really got America interested. The 60s had a sort of "proto-fandom"
> >when a bunch of anime titles went into syndication in America like Astro
> >Boy, Eight Man, Gigantor, Kimba The White Lion, Prince Planet, Marine
Boy,
> >The Amazing 3, Speed Racer, and Mazinger Z.
>
> Mazinger Z was shown in the 70's-80's.
>
> >In 1977 the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization had its first meeting, right
around
> >the time that the first VCRs reached the consumer market, and is
generally
> >considered to be the beginning of the first real anime fandom in America.
> >Around this time anime fans were watching shows like Star Blazers, Battle
of
> >the Planets, and Force Five.
> >
> >Then, in September of 1984, Harmony Gold released their Space Fortress
> >Macross Boobytrap tape, which was the first American-produced animated
title
> >to emphasize its Japanese origins and cultural influences as assets,
rather
> >than ignore or try to hide them.
>
> Though they still made some odd enough changes "Rick Yamato."
>
Rick Yamada, Lisa Hayase, and "Jason" were the only name changes. Yamada is
a common Japanese name and their first names were probably changed to make
more profitable toys. The tape combines the first two episodes into one
"movie". No scenes were cut, even the Zentradi Roy kills and Minmei's
swaying ass. It even still has Minmay's name on the screen in Japanese.
There is some westernization but up until Space Fortress Macross Boobytrap,
almost no anime had been sold to the general public and remained as faithful
to the original.
> >The next year, Robotech went into American
> >syndication, and produced a huge wave of fans that would create a demand
for
> >the first professionally subtitled anime tapes. Robotech was mostly
> >responsible for the late 80's interest in anime in America.
> >
> >-Tim
>
> Actually, fansubs existed well before Robotech, and fans wanted something
not
> dubbed after watching Robotech doesn't really help your case any. You also
> leave out a few titles.
>
I wasn't talking about fansubs (because they weren't "mainstream"). To
attract new anime fans, it had to be dubbed because that's what most people
want to see. I like subtitled better as well but everyone knows that dubbed
tapes outsell subbed. And I don't have to list every single title.
-Tim
Tim
> >Parallax created this thread.
>
> With legitimate questions.
>
Never said they weren't. He isn't beyond scrutiny.
> >And Keith fans the flames of all these
> >flamewars.
>
> Take responsability for your own posts, I don't make you or anyone else
post
> anything.
>
Hmm. Okay.. why don't you? That's a question you should ask yourself,
Megatron.
> >If you want to play hardball and knowingly sling mud at someone
> >else's favorite show, then don't whine that they're coming into the
> >newsgroup just to pick on you.
>
> What mud, it's acknowledging it for what it is. If you're insecure with
that,
> it's your problem.
>
In another message you were explaining to "Captain Gloval" that most
opinions are wrong. You know that your "acknowledging" of an opinion is not
a fact. I bet you were hoping we wouldn't think about that too much. Next
time you do the "Robotech sucks as plain as day" thing, give some good solid
reliable facts. Right now all you got is a house of cards.
YF21Bowman
>
>Iraq was able to shoot down one of your much lauded stealth fighters.
>
>HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SHOOT DOWN A *STEALTH* FIGHTER?
Luck! Get a million monkeys with a million typewriters typing for a million
years, and one of 'em will turn out Shakespeare.
>
>That's the state of American technology. Canada has nothing to fear here.
>
>Do you know what'll happen when we shoot down your shoddy American rip-off
>"VF-22?"
>Do you know what'll happen when we send our EVAs out to crush your Mobile
>Suits?
This thread is getting retarded. I'm gonna stop it before we get serious.
>
>We get American prisoner slave labour, that's what happens.
>
>Thank you.
O.D.
Do I really need to end each sentence with an emoticon? o_O
calm down, dude. ^_^
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000826175113...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
YF21Bowman
>
>Do I really need to end each sentence with an emoticon? o_O
>
>calm down, dude. ^_^
>
Dude, I know it's not serious. I'm sayin' we better stop before
A) Someone jumps in who is serious
B) Someone thinks we're serious and we're being "assholes"
C) I say the wrong thing, or you say the wrong thing, and we offend each other
(unlikely)
D) A Robotech"ER" takes offense and starts flaming me
Tim
Unconscious mistake. That should read "Minmay".
Captian Gloval
yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
> >Opinions are never wrong. Look up this word also. Facts can be
right
> >or wrong, opinions are just what they are. Personal thought and
> >feelings. You mix the two, that's why you keep getting cornered.
> >
>
> all are at least as guilty as me for persecuting people for their
> beliefs..well...maybe not persecute. Annoy is a better word.
>
> YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
> remove "dooby" to mail me
> "Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
> Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
> "Power to the rainbow..."-Nekki Basara-Fire Bomber!
>
Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act like
it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding my
ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
opinions.
--
Captian Gloval
SDF-1 CO
Captian Gloval
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
> Answers laced within
>
> > I personally like both Robotech and Macross. With out Robotech, as
I
> > have said before wither certain ppl on this news group like it or
not,
> > a
> > lot of the people that even know what the h*ll Macross is wouldn't.
>
>
> > series are what have built the anime fan base in the US. Look it up
> > instead of just bashing it like a lot of you do.
>
get YOUR
> facts straight.
Funny I used to watch them when I was a kid.
>
> > One last thing of note. Notice how ALL kinds of Macross fans bash
> > Robotech with out understanding it, but very few Robotech fans bash
> > Macross. Things that make ya say Hmmm....
>
> Hmmm..That Robotech fans can't diss the series that their beloved
following
> is derived from? It's like dissing Sentai, but loving the Power
Rangers.
> Really. Robotech came after Macross. It will always be compared to
> Macross. And if the majority of Macross fans dislike Robotech,
whatcha
> gonna do foo? NOTHING!
>
Very good. I don't care what you like or dislike. I am concerned with
your fellows stating their deluded opinions as facts.
O.D.
= P
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
news:20000826181159...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> >Who's getting serious?
> >
> >Do I really need to end each sentence with an emoticon? o_O
> >
> >calm down, dude. ^_^
> >
>
> Dude, I know it's not serious. I'm sayin' we better stop before
> A) Someone jumps in who is serious
> B) Someone thinks we're serious and we're being "assholes"
> C) I say the wrong thing, or you say the wrong thing, and we offend each
other
> (unlikely)
> D) A Robotech"ER" takes offense and starts flaming me
>
YF21Bowman
>Young man I have not made comment 1 about the comments that you or
>Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
>you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
>you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
>prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act like
>it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
>state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding my
>ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
>opinions.
What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have stated as if
they were facts. Also, don't call me "Young Man". I don't have any respect for
a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A retarded
character from the kids show to boot.
>
>--
>Captian Gloval
>SDF-1 CO
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
YF21Bowman
>your fellows stating their deluded opinions as facts.
>
Is the way I say "Robotech sucks" bothering you? It is clearly not a fact,
although enough people believe that it might as well be.
Tim
"YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
>
>
>
> >Young man I have not made comment 1 about the comments that you or
> >Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
> >you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
> >you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
> >prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act like
> >it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
> >state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding my
> >ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
> >opinions.
>
> What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have stated as
if
> they were facts. Also, don't call me "Young Man". I don't have any respect
for
> a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A retarded
> character from the kids show to boot.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >--
> >Captian Gloval
> >SDF-1 CO
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
> remove "dooby" to mail me
> "Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
> Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
> "Power to the rainbow..."-Nekki Basara-Fire Bomber!
I got a question. My August 1994 Newtype calls him "Guld Goa Bowmann". There
is also kana underneath his name that says "Ga ri do" "go a" "bo ma n".
Isn't there supposed to be another "n" in your name?
-Tim
Captian Gloval
yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
>
>
> >Young man I have not made comment 1 about the comments that you or
> >Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
> >you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
> >you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
> >prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act
like
> >it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
> >state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding
my
> >ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
> >opinions.
>
> What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have
stated as if
> they were facts.
Read back through this thread alone. I'm not picking through it. You
have stated yourself that you are still in HS. View it as an ojective
report research study.
> Also, don't call me "Young Man". I don't have any respect for
> a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A
retarded
> character from the kids show to boot.
I will call you "Young Man" because that what I assumed you were. I
have already noted that assumtions don't work in this NG. So, child,
now you are calling the show you have been supporting all through this
thread and others a "kids show". Notice I go by Captain Gloval. Not
Henry J ot Bruno J., and before you go spactic I have seen it on
Macross pages (not fan pages) spelled both ways, Global and Gloval. I
know you are going to bitch about this and that's fine. It will just
prove the point all the more.
Tim
>
> "YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
> news:20000826190432...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > >Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
> > >you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
> > >you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
> > >prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act like
> > >it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
> > >state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding my
> > >ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
> > >opinions.
> >
> > What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have stated
as
> if
respect
> for
> > a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A retarded
> > character from the kids show to boot.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Captian Gloval
> > >SDF-1 CO
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > >Before you buy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
> > remove "dooby" to mail me
> > "Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
> > Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
> > "Power to the rainbow..."-Nekki Basara-Fire Bomber!
>
> I got a question. My August 1994 Newtype calls him "Guld Goa Bowmann".
There
> is also kana underneath his name that says "Ga ri do" "go a" "bo ma n".
> Isn't there supposed to be another "n" in your name?
>
> -Tim
>
Tim
more than Robotech.
-Tim
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:SHZp5.24954$i5.10...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> Exactly. You don't USE japanese anime. You show japanese anime.
>
> "O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:EAZp5.24951$i5.10...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> > Therein lies the problem.
> >
> >
> > "Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:8o9mrd$p74$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > In article <20000826102512...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
> > > keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> > >IT 'WAS' ONE
> > >OF THE FIRST SHOWS THAT USED JAPANESE ANIME.
Tim
they showed it there. AFAIK there wasn't an English language version.
I prefer subtitled anime. I've heard very few American voice actors as good
as the Intersound group that did Robotech. It's okay for something like
Robotech thats not supposed to be a translation, but otherwise I watch
Japanese only.
-Tim
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:1HZp5.24953$i5.10...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> You are delusional, cause Mobile Suit Gundam has never, EVER been shown on
> US Tv. It hasn't even been dubbed, and you all know how well you
> Robotechers respond to subs(the only way to watch anime by the way).
>
> If you don't believe me, go to www.gundamproject.com and ask Mark Simmons.
>
> "Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8o9lo4$o16$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <20000826190611...@ng-fi1.aol.com>,
> > yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
> > > >Very good. I don't care what you like or dislike. I am concerned
> > with
> > > >your fellows stating their deluded opinions as facts.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is the way I say "Robotech sucks" bothering you? It is clearly not a
> > fact,
> > > although enough people believe that it might as well be.
> >
> > Enough ppl believe that some Macross fans suck. Doesn that mean that
> > it's true also? Going by that thinking, I guess the answer is yes.
Tim
> >I used to spell it that way, but I was going for the romanji approach.
>
>
> >Rick Yamada, Lisa Hayase, and "Jason" were the only name changes.
>
>
> >Yamada is
> >a common Japanese name and their
>
> >first names were probably changed to make
> >more profitable toys.
>
>
> >The tape combines the first two episodes into one
> >"movie". No scenes were cut, even the Zentradi Roy kills and Minmei's
> >There is some westernization but up until Space Fortress Macross
Boobytrap,
> >almost no anime had been sold to the general public and remained as
faithful
> >to the original.
>
Then tell me what it is. I'm 100% certain that Super Space Fortress Macross
was the first professionally translated licensed anime tape sold in America
that emphasized it's Japanese origins rather than hide them. It set a
precedent for the translation of anime in America. Before 1984 they did not
sell American tapes of a cartoon with that level of violence, romance, and
maturity. Especially one with the original Japanese story and music. And I'm
talking about anime, not "Heavy Metal".
>
> >I wasn't talking about fansubs (because they weren't "mainstream"). To
> >attract new anime fans, it had to be dubbed because that's what most
people
> >want to see. I like subtitled better as well but everyone knows that
dubbed
> >tapes outsell subbed. And I don't have to list every single title.
>
> They outsell subs because companies want them too, more money is made off
of
> dubs in general. The prejjudice against things that are foreign is played
on.
>
> And as for your correction, her true name is "Lin Minmei," with the
stage
> version being "Lynn Minmay."
Tim
> >Never said they weren't. He isn't beyond scrutiny.
>
>
> >Hmm. Okay.. why don't you? That's a question you should ask yourself,
> >Megatron.
>
>
> >In another message you were explaining to "Captain Gloval" that most
> >opinions are wrong.
>
>
> >You know that your "acknowledging" of an opinion is not
> >a fact. I bet you were hoping we wouldn't think about that too much.
>
>
> >Next
> >time you do the "Robotech sucks as plain as day" thing, give some good
solid
>
> I do, it's Bowman that's been going off. Robotech is a bastardization,
it
> breaks artistic integirty of 3 already existing series (& one movie), it
feeds
> into tv dub stereotypes, and its an ancient style of release that should
not
> be continued or perpetuated, especially in the face of a proper release of
> Macross.
Since Robotech: The Movie, all new Robotech series have been and will be
made with new animation. That style of release, of dubbing over the footage
of other shows is, at least for Robotech, far in the past. It was made
during a time when anime was being translated like Star Blazers, Battle of
the Planets, and Macron 1.
-Tim
Tim
> >Since Robotech: The Movie, all new Robotech series have been and will be
> >made with new animation.
>
1,
> and as far as "all new," so far there has only been "1" attempt that's
come
> remotely close to completion, that being the sentinels, hardly qualifying
as
> an "all."
>
The new Robotech series is not going to use footage from another series.
Wherever you heard this from, there is no truth to it. When I said "since",
I was talking about after Robotech: The Movie, though Harmony Gold did have
Idol Co. (or whoever it was) animate a new ending.
> >That style of release, of dubbing over the footage
> >of other shows is, at least for Robotech, far in the past.
>
> Can't really say that, as nothing has come of the proposed "new"
animation.
There is almost 4 minutes of Robotech 3000 footage (just a preview), but
after showing it at FanimeCon, Harmony Gold decided to make it cel animation
instead. They said it should be done about 2002.
> Besides which, it doesn't make the foundation of robotech any less a
> bastardization. You want to call robotech its own entity, then you'd
better
> hope they re-do the beginning.
>
As usual the entire purpose of your response is to be contrary to anything
pro-Robotech, to get in the last word by calling it a "bastardization". You
can never admit you're wrong. Wanting them to somehow "re-do" all 85
episodes of Robotech is a ridiculous and unrealisitic expectation. Robotech
IS it's own entity, whether you like it or not.
I bet you're going to come back again with "It's not my fault you can't
acknowledge the fact that Robotech sucks".
Fact: Robotech is an animated TV series.
Opinion: Robotech sucks.
Can I make it any more clearer? You do this every time, just to keep the
debate going in circles.
> >It was made
> >during a time when anime was being translated like Star Blazers, Battle
of
> >the Planets, and Macron 1.
> >
> >-Tim
>
> It however did not make the practice any less wrong.
>
I'm bleeding up here on this crucifix for your bastardized 80's anime Keith,
I really am, to wash the sin away.
Tim
"Parallax" <halj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39A8C65D...@hotmail.com...
> > I prefer subtitled anime. I've heard very few American voice actors as
good
> > as the Intersound group that did Robotech. It's okay for something like
> > Robotech thats not supposed to be a translation, but otherwise I watch
> > Japanese only.
> >
> > -Tim
>
amazing ...
>
> Anyhow, I didn't mind the dub of Macross Plus - they stayed pretty
faithful
> (with only 3 changes that I noticed).
> Before you start harrassiing me; not I said I *didn't mind it* - I still
prefer
> the subbed :)
>
> - Parallax
>
I've heard that Dan Woren (Roy Fokker) did a voice in Macross Plus. Was it
Guld?
-Tim
Captian Gloval
Captian Gloval
Talking to you reminds me of talking to my 2 yr old niece.
Ever seen Big Daddy with Adam Sandler?
Keith: "I win!!"
Just cause YOU have an opinion that something isn't good, doesn't mean
EVERYONE else does. Some ppl may and that's fine, but some of the ppl
on this NG understand what we are saying. This isn't grade school the
teacher isn't going to make us stop because we are making you upset
that because we arn't letting you win.
And, just because you aperently arn't reading all of the post I made
the comment in I'll spell it out for you.
ROBOTECH DID NOT MAKE THE ANIME MOVMENT. IT HELPED IT. IT 'WAS' ONE
OF THE FIRST SHOWS THAT USED JAPANESE ANIME.
--
O.D.
"Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o9mrd$p74$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil
US Tv. It hasn't even been dubbed, and you all know how well you
Robotechers respond to subs(the only way to watch anime by the way).
If you don't believe me, go to www.gundamproject.com and ask Mark Simmons.
"Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o9lo4$o16$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EAZp5.24951$i5.10...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Phil
"Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:sqgg5f...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
> news:sqgb72j...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20000826103216...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> > > >Actually it was Reiji Matsumoto's
> > >
> > > Most often spelled "Leji Matsumoto" by himself.
> > >
> >
> > I used to spell it that way, but I was going for the romanji approach.
> >
> > > >anime like Captain Harlock and Starblazers
> > > >that really got America interested. The 60s had a sort of
> "proto-fandom"
> > > >when a bunch of anime titles went into syndication in America like
> Astro
> > > >Boy, Eight Man, Gigantor, Kimba The White Lion, Prince Planet, Marine
> > Boy,
> > > >The Amazing 3, Speed Racer, and Mazinger Z.
> > >
> > > Mazinger Z was shown in the 70's-80's.
> > >
> > > >In 1977 the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization had its first meeting, right
> > around
> > > >the time that the first VCRs reached the consumer market, and is
> > generally
> > > >considered to be the beginning of the first real anime fandom in
> America.
> > > >Around this time anime fans were watching shows like Star Blazers,
> Battle
> > of
> > > >the Planets, and Force Five.
> > > >
> > > >Then, in September of 1984, Harmony Gold released their Space
Fortress
> > > >Macross Boobytrap tape, which was the first American-produced
animated
> > title
> > > >to emphasize its Japanese origins and cultural influences as assets,
> > rather
> > > >than ignore or try to hide them.
> > >
> > > Though they still made some odd enough changes "Rick Yamato."
> > >
> >
> > Rick Yamada, Lisa Hayase, and "Jason" were the only name changes. Yamada
> is
> > a common Japanese name and their first names were probably changed to
make
> > more profitable toys. The tape combines the first two episodes into one
> > "movie". No scenes were cut, even the Zentradi Roy kills and Minmei's
>
> Unconscious mistake. That should read "Minmay".
>
> > swaying ass. It even still has Minmay's name on the screen in Japanese.
> > There is some westernization but up until Space Fortress Macross
> Boobytrap,
> > almost no anime had been sold to the general public and remained as
> faithful
> > to the original.
> >
> > > >The next year, Robotech went into American
> > > >syndication, and produced a huge wave of fans that would create a
> demand
> > for
> > > >the first professionally subtitled anime tapes. Robotech was mostly
> > > >responsible for the late 80's interest in anime in America.
> > > >
> > > >-Tim
> > >
> > > Actually, fansubs existed well before Robotech, and fans wanted
> something
> > not
> > > dubbed after watching Robotech doesn't really help your case any. You
> also
> > > leave out a few titles.
> > >
> >
> > I wasn't talking about fansubs (because they weren't "mainstream"). To
> > attract new anime fans, it had to be dubbed because that's what most
> people
> > want to see. I like subtitled better as well but everyone knows that
> dubbed
> > tapes outsell subbed. And I don't have to list every single title.
> >
O.D.
Full name in all DVD regions (^_^): "Guld Goa Bowman."
In the anime, everyone seems to pronounces the first name as "Galdo"
Fun with Engrish: Project Super Nova took place at "New Eduwerds Test Fright
Centre."
This is where all the AFM linguistic specialists jump in! ^_^
"Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:sqgntt...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
> news:sqgkqc...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "YF21Bowman" <yf21b...@aol.comdooby> wrote in message
> > news:20000826190432...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Young man I have not made comment 1 about the comments that you or
> > > >Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
> > > >you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
> > > >you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
> > > >prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act
like
> > > >it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
> > > >state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding
my
> > > >ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
> > > >opinions.
> > >
> > > What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have stated
> as
> > if
> > > they were facts. Also, don't call me "Young Man". I don't have any
> respect
> > for
> > > a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A
retarded
> > > character from the kids show to boot.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Captian Gloval
> > > >SDF-1 CO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > >Before you buy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
O.D.
Official Macross:
www.macross.co.jp
Officially sanctioned:
www.anime.net/macross
So useful, it might as well be official:
http://www.nmma.fini.net/main.html
Take it up with the respective webmasters.
"Captian Gloval" <captian...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o9lie$nnp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
YF21Bowman
>In article <20000826190432...@ng-fi1.aol.com>,
> yf21b...@aol.comdooby (YF21Bowman) wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Young man I have not made comment 1 about the comments that you or
>> >Keith have made and noted as opinion. The over opinionated comments
>> >you have made and stated as fact are the ones that have gotten
>> >you "annoyed". If you are going to make an inmature comment be
>> >prepared to get a screen-full. We are all adults here. Let's act
>like
>> >it. If you have fact to support a comment please post it. Do not
>> >state opinions as fact. You are the one pushing. I'm just holding
>my
>> >ground with the facts I have. Facts hold a lot more weight then
>> >opinions.
>>
>> What comments have I made that you take for opinion, but I have
>stated as if
>> they were facts.
>
>Read back through this thread alone. I'm not picking through it. You
>have stated yourself that you are still in HS. View it as an ojective
>report research study.
No. I will say I have not contradicted myself until I am proven wrong.
>
>> Also, don't call me "Young Man". I don't have any respect for
>> a supposed Adult running around with a name from a kids show. A
>retarded
>> character from the kids show to boot.
>
>I will call you "Young Man" because that what I assumed you were. I
>have already noted that assumtions don't work in this NG. So, child,
>now you are calling the show you have been supporting all through this
>thread and others a "kids show". Notice I go by Captain Gloval. Not
>Henry J ot Bruno J., and before you go spactic I have seen it on
>Macross pages (not fan pages) spelled both ways, Global and Gloval. I
>know you are going to bitch about this and that's fine. It will just
>prove the point all the more.
>
>Captian Gloval
>SDF-1 CO
>
You have zero authority over me because I have zero respect for you. I don't
like the "I'm better than you" vibe I'm picking up. Age has no meaning on the
internet: it only matters how mature you are. You may say I'm immature, and
that's fine: I don't care, this is an informal newsgroup. You, however, have
the NERVE to talk down to me.
A) Macross is not a kid's show. Sex and blood aren't common elements of a
childrens show aired in the mid eighties
B) Robotech is most definitely a child's show.
As for the Global/Gloval issue, you yourself have stated you are an avid
Robotech fan. If someone calls themself "Bruce", and is a Batman fan, you'd
assume they're calling themselves Bruce because of Bruce Wayne. Take it in
context, idiot.
Keith
Given that he spells it with an L, that is the proper spelling.
>Rick Yamada, Lisa Hayase, and "Jason" were the only name changes.
Changes enough.
>Yamada is
>a common Japanese name and their
Doesn't matter, it's still a change.
>first names were probably changed to make
>more profitable toys.
i.e. prejudice.
>The tape combines the first two episodes into one
>"movie". No scenes were cut, even the Zentradi Roy kills and Minmei's
>swaying ass. It even still has Minmay's name on the screen in Japanese.
>There is some westernization but up until Space Fortress Macross Boobytrap,
>almost no anime had been sold to the general public and remained as faithful
>to the original.
Oh I'm sure something was.
>I wasn't talking about fansubs (because they weren't "mainstream"). To
>attract new anime fans, it had to be dubbed because that's what most people
>want to see. I like subtitled better as well but everyone knows that dubbed
>tapes outsell subbed. And I don't have to list every single title.
They outsell subs because companies want them too, more money is made off of
dubs in general. The prejjudice against things that are foreign is played on.
And as for your correction, her true name is "Lin Minmei," with the stage
version being "Lynn Minmay."
~Keith
Keith
No reason for scruity, his questions were legitimate.
>Hmm. Okay.. why don't you? That's a question you should ask yourself,
>Megatron.
Because everyone is responsable for their own posting.
>In another message you were explaining to "Captain Gloval" that most
>opinions are wrong.
No, that they can be wrong, after the claim that no opinion can be wrong.
>You know that your "acknowledging" of an opinion is not
>a fact. I bet you were hoping we wouldn't think about that too much.
Perhaps you'd care to come somewhere close to a point here?
>Next
>time you do the "Robotech sucks as plain as day" thing, give some good solid
>reliable facts. Right now all you got is a house of cards.
I do, it's Bowman that's been going off. Robotech is a bastardization, it
breaks artistic integirty of 3 already existing series (& one movie), it feeds
into tv dub stereotypes, and its an ancient style of release that should not
be continued or perpetuated, especially in the face of a proper release of
Macross.
~Keith
Phil
anime do you? A lesser evil, is still evil.
"Tim" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:sqgt3d...@corp.supernews.com...
> Battle of the Planets/Science Ninja Team Gatchaman "used" Japanese anime
> more than Robotech.
>
> -Tim
>
> "Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:SHZp5.24954$i5.10...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Phil
the Macross (Unless that's your boat license number....)
> >Captian Gloval
> >SDF-1 CO
Keith
>EVERYONE else does.
No, just because you think something that's a bastardized version of something
is good, does not make it good.
>Some ppl may and that's fine, but some of the ppl
>on this NG understand what we are saying. This isn't grade school the
>teacher isn't going to make us stop because we are making you upset
>that because we arn't letting you win.
You seem to think I care if you like it or not, that's not the issue. Bottom
line is that it's a screwed up versioon of an already existing series.
>And, just because you aperently arn't reading all of the post I made
>the comment in I'll spell it out for you.
Don't drop entire quotes and then accuseme of not reading.
>ROBOTECH DID NOT MAKE THE ANIME MOVMENT. IT HELPED IT. IT 'WAS' ONE
>OF THE FIRST SHOWS THAT USED JAPANESE ANIME.
No, it wasn't one of the first shows, it was "1" in a long line.
YF21Bowman
>>reliable facts. Right now all you got is a house of cards.
Good and Solid is an opinion. Basically, you won't accept any facts we give you
because you'll counter with some other stupid fact that you think makes our
fact irrelevant.
>
>I do, it's Bowman that's been going off. Robotech is a bastardization, it
>breaks artistic integirty of 3 already existing series (& one movie), it
>feeds
>into tv dub stereotypes, and its an ancient style of release that should not
>be continued or perpetuated, especially in the face of a proper release of
>Macross.
>
>~Keith
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
>Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
>Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> ~~~
>ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dosun1
>
It's true that dubs are cheaper but you are wrong in assuming that's why dubs
sell more. The vast majority of people (ie the mainstream) just prefer dubs
over subs. You should check out the numbers for vhs anime through the years,
dubs always sell more. Sub vhs is actually being phased out as we speak.
Keith
>made with new animation.
I assume you mean since "after," since it was made out of Megazone 23 part 1,
and as far as "all new," so far there has only been "1" attempt that's come
remotely close to completion, that being the sentinels, hardly qualifying as
an "all."
>That style of release, of dubbing over the footage
>of other shows is, at least for Robotech, far in the past.
Can't really say that, as nothing has come of the proposed "new" animation.
Besides which, it doesn't make the foundation of robotech any less a
bastardization. You want to call robotech its own entity, then you'd better
hope they re-do the beginning.
>It was made
>during a time when anime was being translated like Star Blazers, Battle of
>the Planets, and Macron 1.
>
>-Tim
It however did not make the practice any less wrong.
~Keith
Keith
>sell more. The vast majority of people (ie the mainstream) just prefer dubs
>over subs. You should check out the numbers for vhs anime through the years,
>dubs always sell more. Sub vhs is actually being phased out as we speak.
Dubs are cheaper, more dubs wind up in stock because they are cheaper (and as
such are an easier sell), & as such sell better overall. Combine that with the
underlying prejudice myth that people won't like something unless it's in their
own language, and you've got the reason dubs sell more.
Keith
>was the first professionally translated licensed anime tape sold in America
>that emphasized it's Japanese origins rather than hide them.
Yet it did hide them, though I'd go with Galaxy Express 999 which had a
theatrical release in the late 70's (though edited for violence, not culture),
and its likely vhs release before then. Had Macross been the first anime VHS
release, it would be heralded as such.
>It set a
>precedent for the translation of anime in America. Before 1984 they did not
>sell American tapes of a cartoon with that level of violence, romance, and
>maturity. Especially one with the original Japanese story and music. And I'm
>talking about anime, not "Heavy Metal".
And I'm asking for actual proof other than your random claims.
Dosun1
>>made with new animation.
>
Who says? Maybe they'll do like they did in the Sentinels and throw in old
footage.
Dosun1
>as
>such are an easier sell), & as such sell better overall. Combine that with
>the
>underlying prejudice myth that people won't like something unless it's in
>their
>own language, and you've got the reason dubs sell more.
It's not a myth, dubs sell so many more it's not even worth comparing.
Keith
It's quite the myth, people buy dubs because they think subs are too much for
them to handle, when the average person can quite easily watch a sub, but
haven't been properly exposed to them.