- Liberal RADIO Vs. Perpetual VICTIMS
Crash
- Liberal RADIO -- ON RIGHT NOW!
www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php -Pheonix (my fav)
06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
immpersonations, fart jokes.
09:00 - noon PST, Thom Hartmann - like talk radio with brains.
..........
Re: - Hannity sure is NO Rush LIMBAUGH
Logical fallacies and rhetorical tricks
the Straw Man Fallacy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Straw Man Fallacy is to misrepresent someone
else's position so that it can be attacked
more easily, then to knock down that misrepresented
position, then to conclude that the enemy's
position has been demolished.
-- It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with
the actual arguments that have been made.
Typically the weak straw man is loudly and proudly
burned then dragged through town with much fanfare
and bombast, just as it was designed.
Often the duped propaganda victim believes that the
Straw Men really are the enemy's position and will
unknowing ape the fallacy much to the amusement
and encouragement of his like-minded buddies,
only to be humiliated when he takes that argument
public.
A rule of thumb for detecting Straw Men is to ask oneself;
"Could a good and rational man actually believe in that?"
"In different circumstance, could I believe that?"
If not, *assume Straw Man,* - then find time to test with
incisive research from more reliable sources.
That is because most often, for "the enemy" to actually
believe what the Straw Man proposes, requires the enemy
to be subhuman (sub-self, as defined above). In reality,
total idiots and evil demons are not common.
However keep in mind:
The First Rule of Warfare:
Before we can kill them, we must dehumanize them.
...so at times, subhumans may SEEM to be common.
** About rhetorical tricks:
** "One is generally either aware
** of them or duped by them."
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 01 Feb 2009, Foxtrot said
about:
Re: - Hannity sure is NO Rush LIMBAUGH
> (Crash) wrote:
> > Foxtrot said
> >> (Crash) wrote:
> >> >Not so with Hannity. All he does is repeat
................snip
> >> Have to agree with you on this one Crotch. Hannity is boring and
> >> repetitious. Rush has a big ego but his self flattery is pure shtick,
> >> part of his routine. It shows that he doesn't take himself too seriously.
> >Egads, don't tell me YOU can think for yourself too!?
> >Will wonders never cease!?
> You'll find much more analysis and independent thought on the
> right than on the left. Most libs thoughtlessly continue to rehash
> the same tired old claims like how everybody except hetero white
> males are victims.
Gee, and I was beginning to think you could think.
Instead you revert to the same tired straw man
talking points.
Tell me this then? If "Most libs thoughtlessly...,"
then why is that never mentioned on Air America
or Nova M Liberal radio stations?
Well you can't answer that can you? Cuz
like most conservatives you fear checking
them out for yourself. You fear considering
the *real* "rest of the story." So you guys
have to rely on what your masters tell you
they are saying. Self-censorship, it's
the richest kind!
On the other hand, in Limbaughtomyville, ALL
your talk shows, Fox, etc, it's a general
assumption that the whole outside (non-RW)
world is victim of the all-powerful Liberal
conspiracy? ...including all other Media,
universities, science, even encylopedias!!!?????
You guys are just one fun ball of irony!
....................snip
> >> How are their ratings compared to Rush's?
> >
> >Oh Rush got all the powerful stations way
> >back when, and yes, Rush is more feelsgood
> >than the sometimes boring and sometimes
> >feelsbad truth. So Rush has better ratings,
> >pure indicator of feelsgoodisms.
>
> You actually believe that Rush gets much better ratings than
> AA solely because of higher wattage of the radio stations that
> carry his show???? You must be joking Crotch.
solely????
Again, grabing at straws, you resort to straw man
arguments. I never said that did I? I mentioned
two things. The other was feelsgoodism, etc.
Ya know, an objective person reading this thread
might conclude that the reason you guys can't
deal with my actual arguments, is because you
guys can't deal with my actual arguments!
...That you have no real ammo.
...and can't deal with reality.
But you!?
Seemingly nothing clicks inside of you, you
never learn from your constant mistakes
and logical fallacies, I guess you have no
self-respect. You don't mind being wrong in
the name of carrying the Republican banner.
You have worse than the typical Republican
Party-before-America attitude, you are
Party-before-self. Constantly groveling in error
seemingly doesn't phase you guys at all.
Hasn't it occured to you guys that the reason
for your constant mistakes about every important
issue and all your logical fallacies are NOT
a coincedence? It's NOT because we are so slick?
...that your underlying conservative world view
is flawed, in error? ...that perhaps Jesus was
right? Greed is NOT manly OR good? Violence is
NOT good? Favoring the rich is NOT good?
You know, the basics....
> >Was that your point? That Air America & Co
> >better represent reality than Limbaughtomyville?
> >...are more like true news...?
>
> To the contrary. Many times more people listen to Rush than
> Airhead America because he's more credible than they are,
Laff!
> not because his stations have more powerful transmitters. And
> he's more amusing and colorful to listen to than libs who do
I agree, he's more feelsgood! ...cartoon voices,
table-pounding, buldging veins, rock and roll music....
And certainly a lynch mob is the ultimate feelsgoodism.
> nothing but whine, bitch about how awful America is and how
> unjust reality is. Yuck who wants to listen to that gloom for hours
> a day?
Yep.
That would be Randi Rhodes (impeccable facts and
in depth analysis however,) and Mike Malloy's extremism
and shock value. Ooops, Air America fired them months ago.
Again, your portrayal of reality is in error.
Some of Liberal Radio's Free Streams:
www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php -Pheonix (my fav)
06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
immpersonations, fart jokes.
09:00 - noon PST, Thom Hartmann - like talk radio with brains.
http://airamerica.com/listen
09:00, Thom Hartmann - like talk radio with brains.
(I'm unsure of the rest of their lineup)
http://www.kpfa.org/home Pacifica Founded in 1949
06:00 - 10:00, + afternoon drivetime, PST:
Hard hitting news, little feelsgoodism.
14 Stations:
http://radiotime.com/channel/c_57925/Progressive.aspx
www.democracynow.org/podcast.xml
Hard hitting news magazine, op-eds, little feelsgoodism.
> >So?
> >How are Rush's accuracy ratings compared to Randi's?
> >...say on WMD, the Iraq war, the economy, Plamegate?
> >Torture....?
>
> Are you sure you want to use Randi Rhodes as some kind of
> beacon of accuracy?
Compared to RW radio and TV talk shows!?? You bet!
> The one time I listened to her she was
> describing the "October Surprise" which is the absurd unproven
> liberal conspiracy theory that Reagan conspired with the
> Iranian terrorists to hold the hostages past the 1980 election to
> embarrass Jimmy Carter. LOL
One time?
So she is no Dan Rather? You, standing behind
RW radio and TV talk shows!?? LAFF!
Thanks for your support!
--
When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776
Foxtrot
> - Liberal RADIO -- ON RIGHT NOW!
> www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php -Pheonix (my fav)
>06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
America as the most common subjects.
Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
>Foxtrot said
>> (Crash) wrote:
>> >Egads, don't tell me YOU can think for yourself too!?
>> >Will wonders never cease!?
>
>> You'll find much more analysis and independent thought on the
>> right than on the left. Most libs thoughtlessly continue to rehash
>> the same tired old claims like how everybody except hetero white
>> males are victims.
>
>Gee, and I was beginning to think you could think.
>Instead you revert to the same tired straw man
>talking points.
>
>Tell me this then? If "Most libs thoughtlessly...,"
>then why is that never mentioned on Air America
>or Nova M Liberal radio stations?
Huh?!? Are you asking why libs don't admit to being ignorant
Crotch? I suggest you rephrase your question.
>> >Oh Rush got all the powerful stations way
>> >back when, and yes, Rush is more feelsgood
>> >than the sometimes boring and sometimes
>> >feelsbad truth. So Rush has better ratings,
>> >pure indicator of feelsgoodisms.
>>
>> You actually believe that Rush gets much better ratings than
>> AA solely because of higher wattage of the radio stations that
>> carry his show???? You must be joking Crotch.
>
>solely????
>Again, grabing at straws, you resort to straw man
>arguments. I never said that did I? I mentioned
>two things. The other was feelsgoodism, etc.
LOL whatever Crotch. Claiming *any* relation between Rush's
popularity being the result of the wattage of radio stations that
carry his show is absurd.
Indeed you have it backwards. Rush isn't popular because
he's carried on powerful radio stations--he's on powerful
stations because he's popular.
>Ya know, an objective person reading this thread
>might conclude that the reason you guys can't
>deal with my actual arguments, is because you
>guys can't deal with my actual arguments!
>...That you have no real ammo.
>...and can't deal with reality.
>
>But you!?
>Seemingly nothing clicks inside of you, you
>never learn from your constant mistakes
>and logical fallacies, I guess you have no
>self-respect.
Nonsense. I use anecdotes and observations of libs' inane
points of view. I don't pretend to be the captain of the debate
team at an ivy league college. I don't consider these talks
to be important enough to spend hours researching every
esoteric aspect of what people say. Can't you tell by how
I often say "IIRC"? It means I'm too lazy and/or disinterested
to research every detail of the subject at hand. LOL
>You don't mind being wrong in
>the name of carrying the Republican banner.
>You have worse than the typical Republican
>Party-before-America attitude, you are
>Party-before-self. Constantly groveling in error
>seemingly doesn't phase you guys at all.
Offhand I'd say that most conservatives on usenet criticize
Repubs more than most libs criticize Dems. You guys often
post defensive kneejerk responses.
>Hasn't it occured to you guys that the reason
>for your constant mistakes about every important
>issue and all your logical fallacies are NOT
>a coincedence? It's NOT because we are so slick?
>...that your underlying conservative world view
>is flawed, in error?
Subjective supposition.
>Greed is NOT manly OR good?
Providing a comfortable life for oneself and one's loved ones
is good. You're phony and pompous if you claim otherwise.
>Violence is
>NOT good?
Who says it is?
>Favoring the rich is NOT good?
Capitalism is good. If don't believe me compare our quality
of life with that of North Korea or Cuba.
>> >Was that your point? That Air America & Co
>> >better represent reality than Limbaughtomyville?
>> >...are more like true news...?
>>
>> To the contrary. Many times more people listen to Rush than
>> Airhead America because he's more credible than they are,
>
>Laff!
>
>> not because his stations have more powerful transmitters. And
>> he's more amusing and colorful to listen to than libs who do
>
>I agree, he's more feelsgood! ...cartoon voices,
>table-pounding, buldging veins, rock and roll music....
>And certainly a lynch mob is the ultimate feelsgoodism.
He's tongue-in-cheek. Not a miserable whiner. It's the main
reason why he's popular and liberal talk radio is a flop.
>> nothing but whine, bitch about how awful America is and how
>> unjust reality is. Yuck who wants to listen to that gloom for hours
>> a day?
>
>Yep.
>That would be Randi Rhodes (impeccable facts and
>in depth analysis however,) and Mike Malloy's extremism
>and shock value. Ooops, Air America fired them months ago.
As I said Rhodes' rant about the mythical "October Surprise"
is a perfect example of libs' bitter whining about falsehoods.
>> Are you sure you want to use Randi Rhodes as some kind of
>> beacon of accuracy?
>> The one time I listened to her she was
ChasNemo
> see.my....@theBeach.edu (Crash) wrote:
> > - Liberal RADIO -- �ON RIGHT NOW!
> >06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
>
> Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
> painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
> America as the most common subjects.
>
> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
So you value humor over truth?
Foxtrot
>Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> see.my....@theBeach.edu (Crash) wrote:
>> > - Liberal RADIO -- ?ON RIGHT NOW!
>> > ?www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php-Pheonix (my fav)
>> >06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
>>
>> Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
>> painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
>> America as the most common subjects.
>>
>> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
>> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
>> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
>> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
>> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
>> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
>
>So you value humor over truth?
Who says you can't have both?
ChasNemo
> ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
> >> see.my....@theBeach.edu (Crash) wrote:
> >> > - Liberal RADIO -- ?ON RIGHT NOW!
> >> >06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
>
> >> Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
> >> painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
> >> America as the most common subjects.
>
> >> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
> >> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
> >> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
> >> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
> >> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
> >> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
>
> >So you value humor over truth?
>
> Who says you can't have both?
You don't.
lab~rat >:-)
puked:
Who wants to listen to dry radio? Hosts like Thom Hartman are like
listening to paint dry. I would rather listen to someone try to be
funny and fail (Rhodes and Lionel) than someone that drones on
monotonously.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
ChasNemo
> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:08:12 -0800 (PST), ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com>
Admit that liberal radio is simply beyond your comprehension and STFU.
lab~rat >:-)
puked:
>On Feb 9, 7:01?am, "lab~rat >:-)" <ch...@cheeze.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:08:12 -0800 (PST), ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com>
>> puked:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 7, 10:28?am, Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> >> ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> >> >> see.my....@theBeach.edu (Crash) wrote:
>> >> >> > - Liberal RADIO -- ?ON RIGHT NOW!
>> >> >> > ?www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php-Pheonix(myfav)
>> >> >> >06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
>>
>> >> >> Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
>> >> >> painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
>> >> >> America as the most common subjects.
>>
>> >> >> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
>> >> >> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
>> >> >> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
>> >> >> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
>> >> >> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
>> >> >> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
>>
>> >> >So you value humor over truth?
>>
>> >> Who says you can't have both?
>>
>> >You don't.
>>
>> Who wants to listen to dry radio? ?Hosts like Thom Hartman are like
>> listening to paint dry. ?I would rather listen to someone try to be
>> funny and fail (Rhodes and Lionel) than someone that drones on
>> monotonously.
>
>Admit that liberal radio is simply beyond your comprehension and STFU.
Yeah, sure. two dozen talking points. Rinse, repeat, add callers
with the same viewpoint.
Seriously, do you listen to liberal radio? Which show? I probably
listen to more liberal programming than you do...
Foxtrot
>"lab~rat >:-)" <ch...@cheeze.net> wrote:
>> ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com>
>> puked:
>> >Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> >> ChasNemo <chasn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
>> >> >> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
>> >> >> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
>> >> >> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
>> >> >> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
>> >> >> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
>>
>> >> >So you value humor over truth?
>>
>> >> Who says you can't have both?
>>
>> >You don't.
By saying "you value humor over truth" you phrased it like they're
mutually exclusive.
>> Who wants to listen to dry radio? ?Hosts like Thom Hartman are like
>> listening to paint dry. ?I would rather listen to someone try to be
>> funny and fail (Rhodes and Lionel) than someone that drones on
>> monotonously.
>
>Admit that liberal radio is simply beyond your comprehension and STFU.
As I said Rhodes is still peddling the 1980 "October Surprise"
myth which was dismissed as unproven partisan bile decades ago.
Beyond our comprehension?!? LOL more like beneath our level
of comprehension much like stories of Bigfoot and the Lock Ness
Monster.
Crash
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On 09 Feb 2009, lab~rat >:-) said
about:
Re: - Liberal RADIO Vs. Perpetual VICTIMS
Persoal preference is why I posted all those
listen-links to all those different liberal
talk shows.
In my opinion, Thom Hartmann is the best talker
out there. The smartest man in talk radio, and
serious, he's certainly not one of your 3 stooges!
He devotes the first segment of most hours to
debating one of your RW heros, and gives them a
chance to spew what ails them. (that all Repubs do)
Having written a dozen books on ADD, two on
Jefferson, one on political epistemology, and
several other historical non-fictions, he brings
reason and historical context, as well as a well
rounded education to the table. I find it to
often be absolutly facinating!
But you prefer Limbaughtomyville slapstick
and Stephanie Miller's fart jokes. That's fine.
...or would be if that's all there was to it.
Read the headlines for the rest of the story.
Limbaugh & Co did that to America.
Kristol - Will Obama Save Liberalism.sig
Ascendancy -- noun: The state that exists when
one person or group has power over another.
From ultra-Neocon William Kristol’s last
column in the New York Times:
"Will Obama Save Liberalism?" - January 25, 2009
"All good things must come to an end. Jan. 20, 2009, marked the end of a conservative era.
"Since Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980, conservatives of various sorts, and conservatisms of various stripes, have generally been in the ascendancy. And a good thing, too! .... Conservatives of the Reagan-Bush-Gingrich-Bush years have a fair amount to be proud of.
"They also have some regrets. They’ll have time to ponder those as liberals now take their chance to govern.
"Can Obama reshape liberalism to be, as it was under F.D.R., a fighting faith, unapologetically patriotic and strong in the defense of liberty? That would be a service to our country."
lab~rat >:-)
puked:
Sounds to me like you touch yourself while you listen. I don't find
him to be all that smart, sorry. I don't listen to radio to be
educated, I read for that. Besides, no one impresses me as being
particularly brilliant on the radio except maybe Phil Hendrie in his
early days...
>
>But you prefer Limbaughtomyville slapstick
>and Stephanie Miller's fart jokes. That's fine.
>
>...or would be if that's all there was to it.
>Read the headlines for the rest of the story.
>Limbaugh & Co did that to America.
>
>
>
>Kristol - Will Obama Save Liberalism.sig
>
>Ascendancy -- noun: The state that exists when
>one person or group has power over another.
>
>From ultra-Neocon William Kristol’s last
>column in the New York Times:
> "Will Obama Save Liberalism?" - January 25, 2009
>
>"All good things must come to an end. Jan. 20, 2009, marked the end of a conservative era.
> "Since Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980, conservatives of various sorts, and conservatisms of various stripes, have generally been in the ascendancy. And a good thing, too! .... Conservatives of the Reagan-Bush-Gingrich-Bush years have a fair amount to be proud of.
> "They also have some regrets. They’ll have time to ponder those as liberals now take their chance to govern.
> "Can Obama reshape liberalism to be, as it was under F.D.R., a fighting faith, unapologetically patriotic and strong in the defense of liberty? That would be a service to our country."
--
Crash
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Thu, 12 Feb, lab~rat >:-) said
about:
Re: - Liberal RADIO Vs. Perpetual VICTIMS
> > in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On 09 Feb 2009, lab~rat >:-) said
> >> >On Feb 7, 10:28?am, Foxtrot wrote:
> >> >> ChasNemo wrote:
> >> >> >Foxtrot wrote:
> >> >> >> (Crash) wrote:
> >> >> >> > - Liberal RADIO -- ?ON RIGHT NOW!
> >> >> >> > ?www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php-Pheonix(my fav)
> >> >> >> >06:00, PST, Stephanie Miller - news, humor, skits,
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Miller is one of the few libs with a sense of humor. Most are
> >> >> >> painfully depressing to listen to, with alarmism and bashing
> >> >> >> America as the most common subjects.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Miller uses spoof which IMHO is a powerful political weapon.
In fact, I'm listening to the Stephanie Miller Show now.
She's a good way to start the morning, Humor, news, skits, news,
fart jokes, news, sound clips from yesterday, "Right Wing World,"
impersonations and so on. . I agree, those guys are fun!
www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php
She beats Laura Ingram in Arbitron.
> >> >> >> Rush is boring sometimes too but he's in top form when he
> >> >> >> mocks libs. Last week when he was quoting Obama he played
> >> >> >> the sound effect of chiseling marble. It cleverly mocked how
> >> >> >> libs and most of the media marvel over Toots and act as though
> >> >> >> he's Moses and every word he utters is of biblical importance.
I replied to that in a new thread:
Liberal RADIO Vs. the Perpetual VICTIMS
The error of course, is assuming libs think like cons.
One can self-educate, but a professor makes it a lot easier.
Because of Hartmann I've read the Federalist Papers, read
up on neocon founder Leo Strause and others, looked into
conservative philosophical father Eddie Burke, and more.
In fact, he may have been partially responsible for
my interest in the transitions into, and out of, the
Age of Enlightenment....which pretty well forces one
to know a bit about the transition out of the Dark Ages.
...which leads to......
> Besides, no one impresses me as being
> particularly brilliant on the radio except maybe Phil Hendrie in his
> early days...
Heven't heard of him.
For raw brain power, it would be hard to beat
Rachel Maddow.
Of course, I'm only talking about the political
head bobbers here.
> >
> >But you prefer Limbaughtomyville slapstick
> >and Stephanie Miller's fart jokes. That's fine.
> >
> >...or would be if that's all there was to it.
> >Read the headlines for the rest of the story.
> >Limbaugh & Co did that to America.
Some Liberal Radio Free Streams:
www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php -Pheonix (my fav)
http://www.kpfa.org/home Pacifica Founded in 1949
14 Stations:
http://radiotime.com/channel/c_57925/Progressive.aspx
www.democracynow.org/podcast.xml
Kristol - Will Obama Save Liberalism.sig
lab~rat >:-)
puked:
>For raw brain power, it would be hard to beat
>Rachel Maddow.
Ok, I see where you sit. I listened to her for her entire stint on
Air America and we have VERY differing opinions.