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"Why Aren't The Aliens Here Already?"
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a425couple
Jun 1, 2015, 12:38:01 PM6/1/15
to
"Why Aren't The Aliens Here Already?
May 27, 2015 8:33 AM ET
Adam Frank
The story begins like this: In 1950, a group of high-powered physicists were
lunching together near the Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Among those in attendance were Edward Teller (father of the nuclear bomb)
and the Nobel Prize-winning Enrico Fermi. The discussion turned to a spate
of recent UFO sightings and, then, on to the possibility of seeing an object
(made by aliens) move faster than light. The conversation eventually turned
to other topics when, out the blue, Fermi suddenly asked: "Where is
everybody?"
While he'd startled his colleagues, they all quickly understood what he was
referring to: Where are all the aliens?
What Fermi realized in his burst of insight was simple: If the universe was
teeming with intelligent technological civilizations, why hadn't they
already made it to Earth? Indeed, why hadn't they made it everywhere?
This question, known as "Fermi's paradox," is now a staple----"
http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/05/27/409670639/why-arent-the-aliens-here-already
May 27, 2015 8:33 AM ET
Adam Frank
The story begins like this: In 1950, a group of high-powered physicists were
lunching together near the Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Among those in attendance were Edward Teller (father of the nuclear bomb)
and the Nobel Prize-winning Enrico Fermi. The discussion turned to a spate
of recent UFO sightings and, then, on to the possibility of seeing an object
(made by aliens) move faster than light. The conversation eventually turned
to other topics when, out the blue, Fermi suddenly asked: "Where is
everybody?"
While he'd startled his colleagues, they all quickly understood what he was
referring to: Where are all the aliens?
What Fermi realized in his burst of insight was simple: If the universe was
teeming with intelligent technological civilizations, why hadn't they
already made it to Earth? Indeed, why hadn't they made it everywhere?
This question, known as "Fermi's paradox," is now a staple----"
http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/05/27/409670639/why-arent-the-aliens-here-already
JRStern
Jun 2, 2015, 1:13:36 PM6/2/15
to
And we're getting new data on that all the time, only recently
confirming that many/most stars have planets, even if they're not all
as comfy as Earth.
It would seem likely enough that roughly Earth-style life should occur
multiple times as it occurred here, however that is, at an average
distance of mumble light-years. Even if they can't travel here we
should be able to detect them, or they detect us, at some point.
Where are the alien "I Love Lucy" shows?
Well, if mumble light-years is big enough I guess that mostly answers
itself, short of a major effort to blast powerful laser signals
towards distant targets, even our worst noise is too hard to pick up
at a distance.
J.
a425couple
Jun 3, 2015, 12:50:55 PM6/3/15
to
"JRStern" <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in message ...
>>The story begins like this: In 1950, ---
> And we're getting new data on that all the time, ---
Perhaps,,,,,,.
I have a different take on it.
How long do you think our dear Homo sapiens will
1) last as an intelligent technological civilization,
2) or even last as a species?
As smaller and smaller less responsible countries get the A-Bomb,
and more and more suicide bombers express themselves,
and more people get silly with drones ----
I've got some doubts.
If you are considering 14.2 Billion years of time, even if there
are/were other "intelligent technological civilizations" that
exist/existed, you need a really long overlap for them
to interact.
>>The story begins like this: In 1950, ---
>>What Fermi realized in his burst of insight was simple: If the universe
>>was
>>teeming with intelligent technological civilizations, why hadn't they
>>already made it to Earth? Indeed, why hadn't they made it everywhere?
>>This question, known as "Fermi's paradox," is now a staple----"
>
> Yeah.
>>was
>>teeming with intelligent technological civilizations, why hadn't they
>>already made it to Earth? Indeed, why hadn't they made it everywhere?
>>This question, known as "Fermi's paradox," is now a staple----"
>
> And we're getting new data on that all the time, ---
> It would seem likely enough that roughly Earth-style life should occur
> multiple times as it occurred here, however that is, at an average
> distance of mumble light-years. Even if they can't travel here we
> should be able to detect them, or they detect us, ----
> multiple times as it occurred here, however that is, at an average
> distance of mumble light-years. Even if they can't travel here we
Perhaps,,,,,,.
I have a different take on it.
How long do you think our dear Homo sapiens will
1) last as an intelligent technological civilization,
2) or even last as a species?
As smaller and smaller less responsible countries get the A-Bomb,
and more and more suicide bombers express themselves,
and more people get silly with drones ----
I've got some doubts.
If you are considering 14.2 Billion years of time, even if there
are/were other "intelligent technological civilizations" that
exist/existed, you need a really long overlap for them
to interact.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Jun 3, 2015, 1:54:12 PM6/3/15
to
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:mknba...@news6.newsguy.com:
There have been many, in depth discussions of those very issues.
But there's also the issue of non-intelligent life, and the
detection thereof[1]. We are right as the cusp of being able to
detect that on planets much like our own, but data so far is very
limited on earth-like planets. Time will tell. Or confuse. One of
the two.
[1]Cchlorophyll, for example, puts out a specific spectrum of
light, which we should be able to detect from (short, perhaps)
stellar distances if life is widespread on the planet.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
news:mknba...@news6.newsguy.com:
But there's also the issue of non-intelligent life, and the
detection thereof[1]. We are right as the cusp of being able to
detect that on planets much like our own, but data so far is very
limited on earth-like planets. Time will tell. Or confuse. One of
the two.
[1]Cchlorophyll, for example, puts out a specific spectrum of
light, which we should be able to detect from (short, perhaps)
stellar distances if life is widespread on the planet.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
lal_truckee
Jun 3, 2015, 2:49:30 PM6/3/15
to
On 6/1/15 9:36 AM, a425couple wrote:
> Why Aren't The Aliens Here Already?
They are.
> Why Aren't The Aliens Here Already?
Dimensional Traveler
Jun 3, 2015, 3:30:02 PM6/3/15
to
--
Veni, vidi, snarki.
MajorOz
Jun 3, 2015, 4:02:38 PM6/3/15
to
Sagan is the prime example. Brilliant mind....down the rat hole.
lal_truckee
Jun 3, 2015, 4:28:50 PM6/3/15
to
On 6/3/15 1:02 PM, MajorOz wrote:
> When scientists pollute their thought processes with dogma...
What part of observation triggered the "dogma" thought?
> When scientists pollute their thought processes with dogma...
MajorOz
Jun 4, 2015, 11:04:17 AM6/4/15
to
2. We gonna burn the planet up.....flood NYC.....kill all the polar bears....yadda-yadda.
3. We gotta get rid of (heh,heh...even the evil bastards) all the nukes.
4. What, OH WHAT, are we ever going to do when we are up to our ass in nuclear waste ?
and the worst one....
5. Sagan's pronouncement that Sadam's firing of all the Kuwait oil wells will trigger a "nuclear winter".
Chris Zakes
Jun 7, 2015, 2:46:08 PM6/7/15
to
Presuming there are other planets with intelligent life (which I think
is plausible, considering the size of a galaxy, and the number of
galaxies we've observed) how many of them have developed
faster-than-light travel? Of those, how many have gone touristing in
our little corner of the universe?
Consider how many centuries it took for Europeans to start colonizing
the Americas. Maybe some UFOs *are* alien explorers, but they're the
equivalent of Leif Erickson visiting North America, not Columbus, or
Cortez or the Jamestown colony.
(On the other hand, we may have come full-circle. When I first got a
computer with internet access, about twenty years ago,
alt.fan.heinlein was just winding down a massive discussion of the
Fermi Paradox.)
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
GNU Terry Pratchett
David Lesher
Jun 7, 2015, 11:44:44 PM6/7/15
to
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Yisroel Markov
Jun 8, 2015, 9:26:46 AM6/8/15
to
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 13:46:07 -0500, Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com>
said:
[snip]
>Presuming there are other planets with intelligent life (which I think
>is plausible, considering the size of a galaxy, and the number of
>galaxies we've observed) how many of them have developed
>faster-than-light travel? Of those, how many have gone touristing in
>our little corner of the universe?
[nod] Hence, the SETI project. The idea being that a civilization
ought to be noisy in certain spectrums. Just the same, though - our
own civilization's noise has only reached out, what - 200 light years?
A tongue-in-cheek theory propounded in a certain Russian sci-fi book
was that civilizations, in fact, abound, and each supernova is an
advanced civilization destroying itself.
>Consider how many centuries it took for Europeans to start colonizing
>the Americas. Maybe some UFOs *are* alien explorers, but they're the
>equivalent of Leif Erickson visiting North America, not Columbus, or
>Cortez or the Jamestown colony.
Well, didn't Mr. Erickson at least try to colonize Newfoundland? The
climate was warmer then - the Vikings in Greenland grew wheat where
now not much more than moss grows.
>(On the other hand, we may have come full-circle. When I first got a
>computer with internet access, about twenty years ago,
>alt.fan.heinlein was just winding down a massive discussion of the
>Fermi Paradox.)
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
said:
[snip]
>Presuming there are other planets with intelligent life (which I think
>is plausible, considering the size of a galaxy, and the number of
>galaxies we've observed) how many of them have developed
>faster-than-light travel? Of those, how many have gone touristing in
>our little corner of the universe?
ought to be noisy in certain spectrums. Just the same, though - our
own civilization's noise has only reached out, what - 200 light years?
A tongue-in-cheek theory propounded in a certain Russian sci-fi book
was that civilizations, in fact, abound, and each supernova is an
advanced civilization destroying itself.
>Consider how many centuries it took for Europeans to start colonizing
>the Americas. Maybe some UFOs *are* alien explorers, but they're the
>equivalent of Leif Erickson visiting North America, not Columbus, or
>Cortez or the Jamestown colony.
climate was warmer then - the Vikings in Greenland grew wheat where
now not much more than moss grows.
>(On the other hand, we may have come full-circle. When I first got a
>computer with internet access, about twenty years ago,
>alt.fan.heinlein was just winding down a massive discussion of the
>Fermi Paradox.)
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
lal_truckee
Jun 8, 2015, 11:07:33 AM6/8/15
to
On 6/7/15 11:46 AM, Chris Zakes wrote:
> Consider how many centuries it took for Europeans to start colonizing
> the Americas. Maybe some UFOs*are* alien explorers, but they're the
> Consider how many centuries it took for Europeans to start colonizing
> equivalent of Leif Erickson visiting North America, not Columbus, or
> Cortez or the Jamestown colony.
Too what difference are you alluding?
> Cortez or the Jamestown colony.
The Vikings came to colonize, made several trips for men (and women) and
supplies, build a village (interesting; if you haven't seen the site
it's worth a visit), and intended to make their future in the Americas.
Michael Black
Jun 8, 2015, 4:13:03 PM6/8/15
to
was relatively brief. The story is mostly about landing on islands off
the coast. Kind of like the "UFOs" in "Have Spacesuit Will Travel",
hiding out on Pluto, then the Moon, to study things before actually coming
to earth. And of course, Columbus never came to North America, an
important consideration since he has ended up important in the history of
North America.
Michael
Chris Zakes
Jun 11, 2015, 8:51:15 AM6/11/15
to
(Especially compared to the Spanish or English colonies a few
centuries later?)
Chris Zakes
Jun 11, 2015, 8:55:44 AM6/11/15
to
America on his third voyage, and on mainland Central America (which is
techincally considered part of North America--NA isn't *just*
modern-day US and Canada) on his fourth voyage.
Third voyage map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus#/media/File:Tercer_viaje_de_Col%C3%B3n.svg
Fourth voyage map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus#/media/File:Cuarto_viaje_de_Col%C3%B3n.svg
danny burstein
Jul 26, 2015, 2:37:11 PM7/26/15
to
In <1qormat4tei1ip4hu...@4ax.com> JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> writes:
>multiple times as it occurred here, however that is, at an average
>distance of mumble light-years. Even if they can't travel here we
>should be able to detect them, or they detect us, at some point.
>Where are the alien "I Love Lucy" shows?
>Well, if mumble light-years is big enough I guess that mostly answers
>itself, short of a major effort to blast powerful laser signals
>towards distant targets, even our worst noise is too hard to pick up
>at a distance.
Actually, it ain' tthat hard.
>multiple times as it occurred here, however that is, at an average
>distance of mumble light-years. Even if they can't travel here we
>should be able to detect them, or they detect us, at some point.
>Where are the alien "I Love Lucy" shows?
>Well, if mumble light-years is big enough I guess that mostly answers
>itself, short of a major effort to blast powerful laser signals
>towards distant targets, even our worst noise is too hard to pick up
>at a distance.
Back in 1975 a college friend and I asked
ourselves that very question...
So we sketched out the transmission power coming
off NYC's Empire State Building (about a half dozen
tv transmitters, about a dozen radio..), then
took the sensivity of Arecibo.
Don't recall the exact numbers, but it basically
worked out that Proxima Centuri was just about
in range.
And.. as it turned out, a couple of weeks later
Science Magazine had a similar article... and
the writers looked at the earth as a single,
so to speak, point source.
They came up with numbers that got a bit farther
out, and also pointed out that anyone monitoring
the signals, even if they couldn't decode them,
would figure out _lots_ of stuff about the Earth.
FOr example, back then the vast majority of radio/tv
signals were on the US East Coast. So... as the planet
rotated, the signal strength would go up and down
depending on which part of the Earth was in view.
- They also added that RADAR, especiall (back then)
the military Super Duper High Power stuff, would
go a lot, make that a LOT, farther. However, it
was very directional and pulsed, so the recipient
would have to be in a very narrow field of the sky.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
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