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My resignation letter from the Heinlein FaceBook page.

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MajorOz

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Jan 24, 2016, 5:54:13 PM1/24/16
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I have know about the Heinlein FaceBook page for a few years, but, as I was not a FB "person", didn't bother.

Finally, granddaughter talked me into creating an account to keep track of all the babies running around. So I looked in....but...nah.

I had observed the disgraceful putsch a few years back and had seen all the tight-ass pretentiousness on "the forum", and didn't want any of that. But a couple old friends said: "give it a try".
So I did.

I came here a year ago, being "somewhat" senior (76), a founding member of THS, sitting many hours at the membership tables at various cons, taking pics at the cons (I have a zillion of them, by the way, including the Centennial....contact me if you want copies), non-smarmy, non-pretentious, and, foundationally, neither political nor politically correct, swore to observe whatever rules the nannies (who, as organizers, had every right to set up) insisted upon.

Nice folks, by and large. But the HUGE elephant in the room was big brother. "Off topic" my wrinkly old ass ! Who, invoking Heinlein, would have the self-righteous gall to say "off topic" ?

Both here and on "the forum", the alt.fan.heinlein is denigrated by the literati as being for the rabble....for the white trash....for those who don't "really" under-staaaand Heinlein.

Now.....they are defining "civil". ....heh,heh,heh... Imagine the poker LL would shove up their ass.

Usenet Heinlein is a welcoming lounge area in Jubal's home....bar over there, comfy chairs and couches everywhere - clothing optional <grin>. Nobody looks down their nose at you or your topics. If you become as boorish as the usual suspects, you are thrown in the pool.

I'm leaving to go back.

Thanks to old friends who can still stomach it.....I can't.

djinn

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Jan 24, 2016, 11:10:11 PM1/24/16
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Hey,pull up a chair. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 1:02:36 AM1/25/16
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On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 10:10:11 PM UTC-6, djinn wrote:
> Hey,pull up a chair. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.

We need to put some flyers up on some buildings.....

Will in New Haven

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Jan 25, 2016, 9:56:08 AM1/25/16
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I'm still here and I prefer it. But I'm on FB enough for other things that I'm not going to resign. I agree with your critique of the Heinlein group, though.

--
Will in New Haven

reilloc

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Jan 25, 2016, 10:17:39 AM1/25/16
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On 1/24/2016 4:54 PM, MajorOz wrote:
> [Original text edited to the following]: Flounce

LNC

Yisroel Markov

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Jan 25, 2016, 11:25:12 AM1/25/16
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On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:56:06 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
<willre...@yahoo.com> said:

>On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 1:02:36 AM UTC-5, MajorOz wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 10:10:11 PM UTC-6, djinn wrote:
>> > Hey,pull up a chair. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.
>>
>> We need to put some flyers up on some buildings.....
>
>I'm still here and I prefer it.

So do I. I've used FB for about a year and then gave up - too much of
a time-waster from my perspective. And it's atrocious as a forum - no
quoting, no nesting, etc.

>But I'm on FB enough for other things that I'm not going to resign. I agree with your critique of the Heinlein group, though.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 2:53:02 PM1/25/16
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Hey !!

He's still alive.....though busy measuring skirts in the legislature and censoring Darwin from textbooks.

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 2:55:14 PM1/25/16
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At the risk of giving offense.....are you still involved, at all, in the Ashkenazi community ?

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 2:58:42 PM1/25/16
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I could never understand the vitriol directed as David Silver. It really astounded me, coming from self-styled "academics".

One of their "april theses" points was to ruin this discussion group, as his only remaining legacy.

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 3:00:14 PM1/25/16
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On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 1:58:42 PM UTC-6, MajorOz wrote:
> On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 8:56:08 AM UTC-6, Will in New Haven wrote:
> > On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 1:02:36 AM UTC-5, MajorOz wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 10:10:11 PM UTC-6, djinn wrote:
> > > > Hey,pull up a chair. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.
> > >
> > > We need to put some flyers up on some buildings.....
> >
> > I'm still here and I prefer it. But I'm on FB enough for other things that I'm not going to resign. I agree with your critique of the Heinlein group, though.
> >
> > --
> > Will in New Haven
>
> I could never understand the vitriol directed as....

...ooops...

"directed AT..."

John David Galt

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Jan 25, 2016, 5:57:07 PM1/25/16
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On 2016-01-24 14:54, MajorOz wrote:
> Now.....they are defining "civil". ....heh,heh,heh... Imagine the poker LL would shove up their ass.
>
> Usenet Heinlein is a welcoming lounge area in Jubal's home....bar over there, comfy chairs and couches everywhere - clothing optional <grin>. Nobody looks down their nose at you or your topics. If you become as boorish as the usual suspects, you are thrown in the pool.
>
> I'm leaving to go back.
>
> Thanks to old friends who can still stomach it.....I can't.

Thank you. This validates why I continue to refuse to join FacePlantBook.

Will in New Haven

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Jan 25, 2016, 5:59:15 PM1/25/16
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I didn't see much of it and what I did see was almost incomprehensibly mean-spirited. He was a friend.

Still is

--
Will in new Haven

Chris Zakes

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Jan 25, 2016, 8:51:19 PM1/25/16
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<shrug> The biggest problem with alt.fan.heinlein these days is the
lack of traffic. Once upon a time (fifteen years ago, or so) I had to
drop a couple of newsgroups because I simply couldn't keep up with the
number of messages posted. These days, I check my newsgroups a couple
of times a week (including the two I dropped, because when things
started slowing down I re-subscribed) and am typically done in five or
ten minutes.

Facebook, for all its flaws, at least keeps me entertained. (Although
I suppose in another ten or fifteen years it, too, will go by the
technological wayside in favor of whatever the next big thing is.)

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--

GNU Terry Pratchett
Mind how you go.

Chris Zakes

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Jan 25, 2016, 8:59:15 PM1/25/16
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On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:58:42 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control
laser caused MajorOz <ozm...@gmail.com> to write:

*My* biggest problem with Silver was his tendency to posit wild
theories about various Heinlein-related topics and then
behave--presumably because *he* had said them--as if they were
completely correct, despite any evidence (including direct quotes from
the relevant books) to the contrary.

<shrug> I don't mind polite disagreement, and I have no problem
admitting I'm mistaken when I *have* made a mistake, but I like facts,
and I don't like being told that someone else's wild-ass guess trumps
my facts. He did that far too often for my taste.

Kai Jones

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Jan 25, 2016, 9:14:17 PM1/25/16
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On 2016-01-26 01:51:18 +0000, Chris Zakes said:

> <shrug> The biggest problem with alt.fan.heinlein these days is the
> lack of traffic.

We could rehash all the same fun threads from the mid-90s.
--
Usenet is my home planet.

djinn

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Jan 25, 2016, 9:33:14 PM1/25/16
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The way my memory is these days I wouldn't notice.

djinn

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Jan 25, 2016, 9:40:49 PM1/25/16
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Looks like we dont. Nice to see so many names from the past. Even LNC.

MajorOz

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Jan 25, 2016, 10:45:51 PM1/25/16
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Guess I didn't notice that as often as did you.

From having spent a lot of time with him, some things stand out:

1. He was a walking encyclopedia of this and that....much of it minutiae.
2. He loved to pull your leg...but never (at least that I could detect) lead you astray.
3. He did not suffer fools gently.

Michael Black

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Jan 26, 2016, 12:06:41 AM1/26/16
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On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Kai Jones wrote:

> On 2016-01-26 01:51:18 +0000, Chris Zakes said:
>
>> <shrug> The biggest problem with alt.fan.heinlein these days is the
>> lack of traffic.
>
> We could rehash all the same fun threads from the mid-90s.

You just need slow readers, who will now start posting again.

I was all set to get both volumes of The Biography last year, but it
turned out the second volume wasn't yet in paperback. So I got the first
volume, and it's sat there unread, me thinking I'd read them together,
more or less. There seemed to be a bigger gap between hard and softcovers
with the second volume than the first.

I think they are saying it's March that the second volume will be out in
paperback, so I may start reading volume 1 sometime soon.

I did "discover" an unread story a few summers back. I was at a used book
sale that had a massive selection of science fiction, real science
fiction. I assume someone moved or maybe died, and his whole library went
to the sale. It was deep in terms of the variety of authors, and deep in
terms of multiple books per author. Anyway, there was a Signet collection
of stories from the Future History, and this one had a story (titles I
can't remember) that I'd never read, it not being in The Past Through
Tomorrow. I remember there had been a few strays, and I had got the
Signet books that had the stories in multiple volumes, but somehow I never
got this volume, and forgot all about it until I came upon this book at
the sale.

So there's always hope.

Michael

Yisroel Markov

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Jan 26, 2016, 9:36:19 AM1/26/16
to
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:55:14 -0800 (PST), MajorOz <ozm...@gmail.com>
said:

>On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 10:25:12 AM UTC-6, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:56:06 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
>> <willre...@yahoo.com> said:
>>
>> >On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 1:02:36 AM UTC-5, MajorOz wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 10:10:11 PM UTC-6, djinn wrote:
>> >> > Hey,pull up a chair. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.
>> >>
>> >> We need to put some flyers up on some buildings.....
>> >
>> >I'm still here and I prefer it.
>>
>> So do I. I've used FB for about a year and then gave up - too much of
>> a time-waster from my perspective. And it's atrocious as a forum - no
>> quoting, no nesting, etc.
>>
>> >But I'm on FB enough for other things that I'm not going to resign. I agree with your critique of the Heinlein group, though.
>> --
>> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
>> www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
>
>At the risk of giving offense.....are you still involved, at all, in the Ashkenazi community ?

I see nothing by which to be offended, but... which Ashkenazi
community? The term is very broad.

reilloc

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Jan 26, 2016, 10:46:30 AM1/26/16
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You here yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dtPc3wNxOg

Didn't think so.

LNC

Nyssa

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Jan 26, 2016, 11:02:57 AM1/26/16
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Speaking (writing) of two-volume works, I'll piggyback this
onto Michael's post.

Does anyone know whatever happened to the supposed second
volume of the "limited edition" "Project Moonbase and Others"
book that was to include the rest of RAH's scripts and
stories that were written to be made into TV shows or
movies?

The site was subterraneanpress.com, but it only shows that
the first volume was sold out.

It's too bad if that second volume never appears since it
would be both wonderful to read more of the Master's works
as well as giving afh some fodder for new discussions.

Nyssa, who has never been a member of Facebook and refuses
to even consider it despite urgings from all directions

Will in New Haven

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Jan 26, 2016, 11:57:36 AM1/26/16
to
I don't know what that had to do with anything, although I have always found the Dobro interesting.

Michael Black

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Jan 26, 2016, 12:34:21 PM1/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, Nyssa wrote:


> Does anyone know whatever happened to the supposed second
> volume of the "limited edition" "Project Moonbase and Others"
> book that was to include the rest of RAH's scripts and
> stories that were written to be made into TV shows or
> movies?
>
> The site was subterraneanpress.com, but it only shows that
> the first volume was sold out.
>
> It's too bad if that second volume never appears since it
> would be both wonderful to read more of the Master's works
> as well as giving afh some fodder for new discussions.
>
I don't know. But maybe the first volume didn't sell well, or they
couldn't arrange financing for the first one?

I once got that book that collected John W. Campbell letters cheap, I
guess they were clearing it out. And it said "volume 1" on the cover, but
I never heard about a second volume. The more specific you get, the less
interest there is, so the market may not be there, despite the hope.

Michael

MajorOz

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Jan 26, 2016, 2:06:27 PM1/26/16
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...heh,heh...I wish....

Getting to jams between cold snaps...take Alieve to keep the fingers going.

Good news is...one of the Oscar nominations is for music scoring in the movie _Carol_ (John Williams will win, however -- again -- for the new Star Wars), but the actual music played included my #2 son (osbornmusic.com) as one of the musicians.

Good kids, good Scotch, good music, good health....life is good.

MajorOz

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Jan 26, 2016, 2:10:18 PM1/26/16
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I am familiar with the community(s) only from my youth. Keeping culture alive and teaching history to the kids.

My (obviously limited) knowledge is local communities loosely joined to others in a manner to any other ethnic group....mine used to be Norwegians, even though as Catholics, we were small time apostates.

Mostly....what I am thinking of is the music.

Yisroel Markov

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Jan 26, 2016, 5:30:19 PM1/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:10:17 -0800 (PST), MajorOz <ozm...@gmail.com>
said:

>On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:36:19 AM UTC-6, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:55:14 -0800 (PST), MajorOz <ozm...@gmail.com>
>> said:

[snip]

>> >At the risk of giving offense.....are you still involved, at all, in the Ashkenazi community ?
>>
>> I see nothing by which to be offended, but... which Ashkenazi
>> community? The term is very broad.
>> --
>> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
>> www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
>
>I am familiar with the community(s) only from my youth. Keeping culture alive and teaching history to the kids.

I'm an observant Jew, so to me the above is pretty much a religious
requirement.

>My (obviously limited) knowledge is local communities loosely joined to others in a manner to any other ethnic group....mine used to be Norwegians, even though as Catholics, we were small time apostates.
>
>Mostly....what I am thinking of is the music.

Ah. When I say "culture" and "history" above, I mean the aspects
common to all Jews, not just those of Ashkenazi origin, and music
would be the peculiar to the latter.

More to your point, America is the nation of immigrants. As a result,
the Jewish community in Boston is comprised of both Sephardi and
Ashkenazi Jews, and each group recognizes further cultural
subdivisions based on origin and religious affiliation. We all get
along, mostly, but individuals are typically most involved with their
own subgroup.

MajorOz

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Jan 26, 2016, 8:43:50 PM1/26/16
to
Thank you. That kinda fills in the blanks for me.

Over on alt.callahans, there is a guy from Los Angeles, an observant Jew, who explains to us the history and modern day observations of him and his community regarding the major holidays.

I find his approach interesting and informative. He is a VERY gifted educator in the "sitting in the living room, discussing stuff" kind of way.

He is NOT, in any way exclusive, superior, nor downtalking.

I have many of the "facts" of Jewish history. He helps me gain a "feeling".

Chris Zakes

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Jan 27, 2016, 9:23:02 AM1/27/16
to
Story description?

Chris Zakes

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Jan 27, 2016, 9:28:41 AM1/27/16
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You might have to buy the Virginia Edition to get those. (My wife, who
loves me very much, bought it for my birthday about a year and a half
ago.)

*Lots* of cool stuff there, including screenplays for a TV adaption of
"Gulf", a full volume of Heinlein's letters to John Campbell and two
more volumes of his letters to the rest of the world, Heinlein's
earliest known story--written while he was still at Annapolis--etc.

http://www.virginiaedition.com/

jeanet...@gmail.com

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Jan 30, 2016, 4:28:36 PM1/30/16
to
I got both copies of the biography from the library and then waited until my favorite book store had used hardback copies. (I just checked--their preorder for the paperback says 3/15/16.

I don't do facebook, but I think it must take some work to find anything off-topic. Heinlein covered so many things.

Jeanette

Chris Zakes

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Jan 31, 2016, 11:19:09 AM1/31/16
to
If Major Oz is talking about the Heinlein Facebook group that I'm on,
they've instituted a policy of "let's not talk about the election"
because they don't want to be swamped with political squabbles for the
next nine or ten months.

I can see that, because the liklihood of anyone changing their
mind--as opposed to constant "I'm right and you're an idiot!/No *I'm*
right and *you're* an idiot" arguments--is pretty low, and it's not
like there aren't plenty of other venues for such discussions.

Michael Black

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Jan 31, 2016, 11:22:12 AM1/31/16
to
I prefer paperback for reading, though I suppose something like this
should be the rare exception bought as hardcover.

The Biography is not the sort of thing I expect to see locally in the used
book stores, a tad too esoteric, and even if the odd copy shows up, likely
someone else would find it first. But the context is that I am buying
both volumes, so it's not a matter of waiting around until I come across
them. I read one or both volumes of Isaac Asimov's autobiography, but
that was because I found them used, not because I had decided it was
something I had to have.

I was just suprised the second volume took longer to come to paperback. I
had a gift card, I was all set to buy the two volumes together so I could
read them one after the other (though perhaps I would want a break),
wanting the details of the first strong in my mind while I read the
second, and then I discover the second volume didn't go to paperback for
almost another year.

I'll get them in March.

Michael

lal_truckee

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Jan 31, 2016, 11:44:51 AM1/31/16
to
On 1/31/16 8:19 AM, Chris Zakes wrote:
> I can see that, because the liklihood of anyone changing their
> mind--as opposed to constant "I'm right and you're an idiot!/No*I'm*
> right and*you're* an idiot" arguments--is pretty low, and it's not
> like there aren't plenty of other venues for such discussions.

I suggest he only other type of Internet interaction there is, is the
YASID post.

MajorOz

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Jan 31, 2016, 2:22:16 PM1/31/16
to
... mostly correct...

But, even then....we are HEINLEIN PEOPLE. We don't get nasty. ;>}}


Generally, however, the primary characteristic of too many over there is condescension.

I HATE that shit.

MajorOz

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Jan 31, 2016, 2:28:19 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 10:19:09 AM UTC-6, Chris Zakes wrote:
...well...that was the trigger...

"they" being the "more equal" pigs


But....I was wearying of the permeation of the air with condescension. I have never been able to figure why so many RAH fans are infected with that.

:: sarcasm on ::

Yeah....I know WE -- as a group -- are better than others....but why act that way among ourselves ?

:: sarcasm off ::

[ must confess, however, to sneaking in a comment on something REALLY interesting ]

MajorOz

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Jan 31, 2016, 2:30:15 PM1/31/16
to


[ snippppp ]

Sorry for the double tap......first didn't show up, so I made another one.

Chris Zakes

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Feb 1, 2016, 8:54:29 PM2/1/16
to
Depends on where you look, I suppose. There's still the occasional
interesting discussion here, or over on alt.callahans (although
alt.fan.pratchett has gotten pretty dull, lately.) But I've seen
similarly-interesting discussions on Facebook's Heinlein Forum. The
problem with Facebook is that such discussions tend to be shorter,
overall (and somewhat harder to follow) due to the nature of the
beast.

John David Galt

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Feb 2, 2016, 12:59:51 AM2/2/16
to
>> I got both copies of the biography from the library and then waited
>> until my favorite book store had used hardback copies. (I just
>> checked--their preorder for the paperback says 3/15/16.

> I prefer paperback for reading, though I suppose something like this
> should be the rare exception bought as hardcover.
>
> The Biography is not the sort of thing I expect to see locally in the
> used book stores, a tad too esoteric, and even if the odd copy shows up,
> likely someone else would find it first. But the context is that I am
> buying both volumes, so it's not a matter of waiting around until I come
> across them. I read one or both volumes of Isaac Asimov's
> autobiography, but that was because I found them used, not because I had
> decided it was something I had to have.
>
> I was just suprised the second volume took longer to come to paperback.
> I had a gift card, I was all set to buy the two volumes together so I
> could read them one after the other (though perhaps I would want a
> break), wanting the details of the first strong in my mind while I read
> the second, and then I discover the second volume didn't go to paperback
> for almost another year.

Has anyone read enough to tell us -- is this an approved and/or
scholarly biography? I dread it being the kind of thing that Alexei
Panshin would write.

Michael Black

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Feb 2, 2016, 3:01:58 AM2/2/16
to
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016, John David Galt wrote:


>> I was just suprised the second volume took longer to come to paperback.
>> I had a gift card, I was all set to buy the two volumes together so I
>> could read them one after the other (though perhaps I would want a
>> break), wanting the details of the first strong in my mind while I read
>> the second, and then I discover the second volume didn't go to paperback
>> for almost another year.
>
> Has anyone read enough to tell us -- is this an approved and/or
> scholarly biography? I dread it being the kind of thing that Alexei
> Panshin would write.
>
>
I thought it was authorized, I remember discussion where he had access to
papers, but I cant' remember if that might have changed.

It's two volumes, the first one is big enough as is, so I don't think
anything better is going to come along.

As I said, I thought about reading the two volumes together, so I've only
glanced at volume 1.

Michael

Will in New Haven

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Feb 2, 2016, 9:23:36 AM2/2/16
to
It was authorized by and had the cooperation of Virginia Heinlein. Of course, Heinlein-slammers see this as a problem but I thought it was fairly balanced. Even more, it was extremely interesting to see behind the scenes.

Nyssa

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Feb 2, 2016, 10:01:34 AM2/2/16
to
Here's my review of Volume 2 I wrote and posted on Amazon.com.
You can read others' reviews there too for a wider range of
opinions.

Robert Heinlein was my favorite writer and easily the most influential
author I read during my teen and later years. I had read the first
volume of this biography when it came out and waited eagerly for the
continuation of the biography for the rest of the story. I was ready to
give it five stars out of the box simply because of the subject.
Instead, I read the book slowly, savoring the details and absorbing the
new data. Once I finished the biography, I still let it simmer for a
while before writing this review in order to fairly judge not just the
content, but its presentation and what might have been missing from the
treatment of the biographical information.

To start with, you'll need two bookmarks when you read this biography:
one for your place in the narrative and another to keep your place in
the end notes where you'll find not only the usual reference citations,
but further explanations, source quotations, and anecdotes.

This book does not lack in detail, but at times it seems that the
details take over from the big picture of Heinlein and his work, and at
other times only a small amount of information is given on some topics
almost as a teaser before dropping it and moving onto something else.

An example of a teaser topic is the mention of the opus system of
organization that Virginia Heinlein set up for her husband to track his
various writing projects. After a few sentences briefly describing the
system, it is mentioned in passing throughout the rest of the book
without ever giving an example or describing it in full. Photographs of
the cards and numbering system for one of his works used as an example
would have been ideal. Since this system was so important to Heinlein's
work, why wasn't it given a more thorough treatment in the text? On the
other hand, we're told about each time that one of the Heinleins went to
see a production of Wagner's Ring operas, and each time reminded how
Robert wasn't that keen on them.

There were some factual errors in the text and endnotes, mostly having
to do with events of the times rather than directly to do with the
Heinleins themselves. (One was the statement that Ford did not have
automatic transmission for their cars until 1973. Since I had 1960 and
1966 Fords, both with automatic, I know this to be untrue. I don't know
why this would even be mentioned since the Heinleins had a Chevrolet at
the time, and the endnote was explaining a term used by General Motors
to describe their transmission. Why even mention Ford, especially when
you've just introduced an error into the text?)

Mr. Patterson was authorized to write this biography by Virgina
Heinlein, and with that authorization he was given free access to the
Robert Heinlein archives at UC Santa Cruz and hours of time with Mrs.
Heinlein for interviews. I remember when Mrs. Heinlein was a participant
in the Usenet newsgroup rec.fan.heinlein (as was Patterson), and she was
gracious in answering questions and joining in discussions of her
husband's works. It was quite clear from her interactions that she
regarded herself as Keeper of the Faith for her husband's legacy. That
same tone can be found in this biography. Patterson is acting both as a
biographer and a defender which limits his usefulness to the reader when
an unbiased analysis or criticism is needed. It is a case of the author
being too close to his subject through his close relationship to Mrs.
Heinlein.

In conclusion, although to me the topic of Robert Heinlein is always
worth five stars, I am giving this volume of his biography four stars
due to the lack of critical analysis and overview. Yes, I learned things
I did not previously know about Heinlein, but this book could have been
much more than a cataloging of details and minutiae of his life with a
side trip of a defense of his politics. I recommend it to fans of
Heinlein, those wanting to know more about how a successful writer got
and stayed that way, and anyone interested historically in the
post-World War II era of science fiction.

Nyssa, who never did get around to reviewing Volume 1

djinn

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Feb 3, 2016, 8:05:41 AM2/3/16
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Thanks, that was an interesting review.

Chris Zakes

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Feb 4, 2016, 10:54:05 AM2/4/16
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It's definitely not the hack-job Panshin did, and it has a fair bit to
say about Panshin's interactions with the Heinleins.

MajorOz

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Feb 4, 2016, 12:41:44 PM2/4/16
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My POV of Panshin's POV.....

He thought that RAH was gonna / had already named him the heir apparent.

When he realized he wasn't...he became the stereotypical medieval rejected son.


...but _Rite of Passage_ is still a great book...

djinn

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Feb 4, 2016, 10:07:27 PM2/4/16
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You remind me I should try to read RoP again. I don't think I finished it,but many people apparently like it. Maybe with different perspective I'd like it more.

Sean Gaeltach

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Feb 26, 2016, 9:26:48 PM2/26/16
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On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 1:07:27 PM UTC+10, djinn wrote:
> You remind me I should try to read RoP again. I don't think I finished it,but many people apparently like it. Maybe with different perspective I'd like it more.

I tried that. Several years ago I had an email conversation with Panshin regarding RAH. I mentioned in passing that I couldn't find the energy to finish RoP, as it just did not engage me. He offered no advice, and perhaps I was a bit rude to say what I did. I dunno. In any case, I went on to finish RoP at a future date. It was ok, but not great. Perhaps I had been expecting more from Heinlein's supposed heir-apparent? Expectation can sometimes be the issue and not so much the material itself.
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