A question about "Friday"
James Krieger
In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
Jim Krieger
Kris Hasson
Just a guess...Learn to enjoy the inevitable?
--
Kris (has...@teleport.com)
Beverley Eyre
In article <35465D...@teleport.com> Kris Hasson <has...@teleport.com> writes:
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Yes, That's it. Just sit back and enjoy the inevitable.
Bev
XPESFAN
The phrasing as RAH knew it is:
When rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it
I doubt he thought it was inevitable very often
The most you can do .... etc. The point is the specific reference to rape
beyond any what can't be cured must be endured approach to life.
carlos...@dks.com.br
In article <6i5gge$dgk$1...@news7.ispnews.com>,
"James Krieger" <jkri...@sover.net> wrote:
>
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
books too.
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Simon Slavin
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
Advice to young girls undergoing rape: relax -- don't fight it.
Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
for fighting is more bruises.
Simon.
--
Simon Slavin -- Junk email hater. | [It] contains "vegetable stabilizer"
Junktrap deletes unread >4 UBEs/day.| which sounds ominous. How unstable are
Check email address for UBE-guard. | vegetables? -- jz...@pipeline.com
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk |
William G. Jennings
James Krieger wrote:
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been
> captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a
> "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions
> that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the
> ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>
> Jim Krieger
I have a vague recollection of a Chinese adage that goes: The softest
thing in the Universe can overcome the hardest.
Will
Dave Stone
Simon Slavin <slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
> Advice to young girls undergoing rape: relax -- don't fight it.
> Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
> for fighting is more bruises.
I have to say that I can't imagine *Heinlein* advocating any such thing
- or at least, that he would personally have far more respect for a rape
victim who fought scratching and biting all the way, even at the cost of
his/her own life.
I *don't* think he meant Friday's reaction to be taken as the correct
one - this was at the start of the book, remember, and one of his three
basic plots was a character who starts out stupid in some area or other
and learns better.
Indeed, my reading of the Friday theme in toto is that it's about a
woman who gets screwed, in various senses, by all and sundry until she
puts her foot down and realises, finally, that she simply doesn't have
to take it anymore.
--
Take care. Have fun. Is everybody go to utter horrible Oblivion.
http://www.sgloomi.demon.co.uk
Kali
I dissagree totaly. I can't remember who wrote it, but "rage, rage against the
dieing of the light" is approprite. I know that it's about dieing, but I think
that it works here just as well.
As to why I dissagree, physical bruises and wounds would be as nothing to me
compared to the knoledge that I did not try to fight, no matter the hopelessness
of the situation. Of course, I speek as a male, and as someone who has never
been raped. <knock on wood>
Simon Slavin wrote:
> In article <6i5gge$dgk$1...@news7.ispnews.com>,
> "James Krieger" <jkri...@sover.net> wrote:
>
> > In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> > is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> > deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> > option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> > Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>
> Advice to young girls undergoing rape: relax -- don't fight it.
> Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
> for fighting is more bruises.
>
Eric C. Sanders D. D.
On Fri, 1 May 1998 16:35:10 +0000, da...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk (Dave
Stone) wrote:
>Simon Slavin <slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
>
>> Advice to young girls undergoing rape: relax -- don't fight it.
>> Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
>> for fighting is more bruises.
>
>I have to say that I can't imagine *Heinlein* advocating any such thing
>- or at least, that he would personally have far more respect for a rape
>victim who fought scratching and biting all the way, even at the cost of
>his/her own life.
>
>I *don't* think he meant Friday's reaction to be taken as the correct
>one - this was at the start of the book, remember, and one of his three
>basic plots was a character who starts out stupid in some area or other
>and learns better.
>
>Indeed, my reading of the Friday theme in toto is that it's about a
>woman who gets screwed, in various senses, by all and sundry until she
>puts her foot down and realises, finally, that she simply doesn't have
>to take it anymore.
A good, reasonable exegesis, I'd say.
------------------------------------------------------
"No matter where you go - there you are."
- Dr Buckaroo Banzai
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes
da...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk (Dave Stone) wrote:
>Simon Slavin <slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
>
>> Advice to young girls undergoing rape: relax -- don't fight it.
>> Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
>> for fighting is more bruises.
>
>I have to say that I can't imagine *Heinlein* advocating any such thing
>- or at least, that he would personally have far more respect for a rape
>victim who fought scratching and biting all the way, even at the cost of
>his/her own life.
Might I suggest that "relaxing to the inevitable" is *one* way of
surviving a rape? Particularly if the rapist is armed.
As a disclaimer, I'm male, and have never even come close to being
raped, so my opinion may not be valid, but...
Given the choice between unpleasant sex with a rude stranger and
death, I'd choose the sex. It's less permanent.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moon...@bga.com
Eileen
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moon...@bga.com> wrote in article
<354a860a...@news2.bga.com>...
> da...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk (Dave Stone) wrote:
>
> >Simon Slavin <slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
> >
> Might I suggest that "relaxing to the inevitable" is *one* way of
> surviving a rape? Particularly if the rapist is armed.
>
> As a disclaimer, I'm male, and have never even come close to being
> raped, so my opinion may not be valid, but...
> Given the choice between unpleasant sex with a rude stranger and
> death, I'd choose the sex. It's less permanent.
>
> -Chris Zakes
> Texas
Unfortunately, rape usually is not about sex, but control through violence.
Also if the rapist wants to kill as well, there's not much point to
"relaxing".
"Relaxing" (if possible in the situation) may be better during date rape.
--
Eileen
Matt Hickman
In <6iec4f$k...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Eileen" <Datasphe...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moon...@bga.com> wrote in article
>
>> surviving a rape? Particularly if the rapist is armed.
>
>Also if the rapist wants to kill as well, there's not much point to
>"relaxing".
IIRC, Friday was referring to rape as a torture technique used within the
context of her profession. To her it was a professional risk and she had
the responsibility to survive and escape. Take a look at the way the L. M.
Bujold novel (forgot which one) treats Mark's torture and how his training
as an assasin allowed him to turn the tables on his torturer.
--
Matt Hickman
A wise man should be prepared to abandon his baggage at any time.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
_The Door Into Summer_ 1956
RicknMers
Eileen <Datasphe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6iec4f$k...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moon...@bga.com> wrote in article
> <354a860a...@news2.bga.com>...
> > da...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk (Dave Stone) wrote:
> >
> > >Simon Slavin <slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost> wrote:
> > >
> > Might I suggest that "relaxing to the inevitable" is *one* way of
> > surviving a rape? Particularly if the rapist is armed.
> >
> > As a disclaimer, I'm male, and have never even come close to being
> > raped, so my opinion may not be valid, but...
> > Given the choice between unpleasant sex with a rude stranger and
> > death, I'd choose the sex. It's less permanent.
> >
> > -Chris Zakes
> > Texas
>
> Unfortunately, rape usually is not about sex, but control through
violence.
> Also if the rapist wants to kill as well, there's not much point to
> "relaxing".
Eileen, I think he means that if you are being raped by some unspeakable
that has a knife to your throat or a gun to your head it is in your best
interest not to fight back, assuming you want to improve your chances of
living through the experience. This also gives you opportunity to hunt it
down later and kill it.
>
> "Relaxing" (if possible in the situation) may be better during date rape.
From personal experience, this is the BEST time to fight, assuming the
situation above does not apply, (it usually doesn't, as most people don't
bring weapons on a date). I was lucky enough to hold them off long enough
for my screams to attract attention. And if they had been successful, our
mutual scratches and bruises would have helped my case immeasurably in
court. A rape victim is usually assumed guilty until proven innocent, and
anything that supports your story helps.
-Mers
David Gutschow
The poem you quoted was written by Dylan Thomas.
Kali wrote in message <354A74C0...@idt.net>...
>I dissagree totaly. I can't remember who wrote it, but "rage, rage against
the
>dieing of the light" is approprite. I know that it's about dieing, but I
think
>that it works here just as well.
>
> As to why I dissagree, physical bruises and wounds would be as nothing to
me
>compared to the knoledge that I did not try to fight, no matter the
hopelessness
>of the situation. Of course, I speek as a male, and as someone who has
never
>been raped. <knock on wood>
>
>Simon Slavin wrote:
>
>> In article <6i5gge$dgk$1...@news7.ispnews.com>,
>> "James Krieger" <jkri...@sover.net> wrote:
>>
>> > In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
>> > is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a
"professional"
>> > deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that
one
>> > option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the
ancient
>> > Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>>
>> Basically, that once you're actually being raped all you'll get
>> for fighting is more bruises.
>>
david.h...@gmail.com
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>
She is a Professional Spy. You cannot break her by torture. You can certainly not break her by rape. She's been through years of attempts by Her Own People to harden her.
Ancient Chinese Adage:
Rape impossible!
Woman with skirt up run faster than man with trousers down!
Best I could find, although it was in a topic labeled "Jokes"
david.h...@gmail.com
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>
> Jim Krieger
danny burstein
then, but Heinlein was referring to the concept that "if rape
is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it".
- this was actually verbalized by a NYC tv weather man, Tex
Antoine, when the camera switched to him after the news anchor
had just reported on a rape attack.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Will in New Haven
> On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, James Krieger wrote:
> > In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> > is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> > deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> > option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> > Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
> >
> > Jim Krieger
>
> She is a Professional Spy.
For those who _really_ believe that rape is a "fate worse than death," believe what you want.
--
Will in New Haven
reilloc
> For those who _really_ believe that rape is a "fate worse than death," believe what you want.
decades of experience that inform your dismissively condescending
utterances. Not unreasonably, to include the abortive witticism, quoted
above, you're claiming those experiences include having been raped.
Do tell.
LNC
Will in New Haven
---
Will in New Haven
lal_truckee
> Have you experienced being dead?
Not much going on.
reilloc
having taken away from you the enjoyment of a necessary part of life?
You can't imagine that once that's been stolen it's not unreasonable to
wish for even a death that's nothingness?
LNC
Will in New Haven
It is a mistake to think that any of us is _above_ that kind of reaction but it is not right to call it reasonable.
reilloc
dedicated (in the way you seem to have things figured out) to behaving
by "gets angry and screams and shouts." Then, identify that separate
organ that "thinks." Finally, please explain why you apparently claim
that it's possible to exclude emotion from rational decision making.
You're a bridge player. In the absolute sense, would you rather be lucky
or good?
LNC
Will in New Haven
reilloc
LNC
Luminaria
> In the second chapter of this book, where Friday has been captured and
> is being interrogated, she talks a little bit about how a "professional"
> deals with rape as part of the interogation process. She mentions that one
> option, for those with "advanced training", is to "...emulate the ancient
> Chinese adage." Does anyone know what this means?
>
> Jim Krieger
Someone tries to rape you in the field, you fight back as hard as you can, just like any other attack. As an "interrogation technique", you fight back against that too - just like if they try and cut off your nuts or slice out your tongue. You sit there and take that, guys? Do you? Nice and quiet-like? Sure, you do that. Me, I go out kicking. Black Widow all the way.
Lis