Kelly Fisher Lowe book
Charles Ulrich
Fisher Lowe.
I'm afraid the title is a misnomer. The book is primarily about FZ's
lyrics, with little about his music. Lowe admits on page xvii that "I am
much more at home working with lyrics than I am working with music".
When he does talk about music, he proves this point. On page 53, he
talks about "Lonely Little Girl" on WOIIFTM, referring to "a great
trumpet part... vaguely Mexican flavor... very influenced by the stock
music that you would hear in the Westerns of the fifties and sixties".
Perhaps he's talking about the lick under "the way you feel". But isn't
that played on an electric guitar? Is there any trumpet at all on this
track? I re-listened to three versions (mono, stereo, remix) and
couldn't detect any.
On page 88, he talks about trumpet in "Would You Go All The Way?" and
tuba in "Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink", when the liner notes should
make it clear that the only brass instrument on these songs is George
Duke's trombone.
As for his discussion of FZ's lyrics, I'd say it tells you more about
Kelly Fisher Lowe than it does about Frank Zappa. In that respect, it
was reminiscent of Ben Watson's Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play (not
that Watson's book tells us much about Lowe). But I think Watson would
acknowledge that his interpretations of FZ's lyrics don't necessarily
reflect FZ's own intentions--and argue that there's no reason they
should. On the other hand, I get the feeling that Lowe believes he
really is describing FZ's feelings. And he hasn't persuaded me that he's
right.
Lowe mentions the "white, middle-class values" of the narrator of "Go
Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder". Isn't FZ imitating a pachuco accent
here ("I thought it was charp")? Note that FZ's exposure to car culture
was largely through the hispanic community in San Diego ("All the
Mexican kids had these really fine cars, 39 Chevies mostly... You had
to have that kind of car; otherwise you were losing points."--FZ,
8/10/68).
If he wants to discover FZ's thoughts, wouldn't it help to consult
interviews with the man himself? He quotes The Real Frank Zappa Book and
interviews that are quoted in other books (Watson, Slaven, Miles), but
he doesn't appear to have consulted any interviews directly (even the
many that are available on line).
For each album that he discusses (and he doesn't discuss every FZ
album), he summarizes the "contemporary" critical reaction (by which he
means contemporary to his book, not to the album itself) as represented
by a handful of on-line resources and the alleged consensus fan opinion
as represented in reviews at amazon.com. He even notes when an album is
not reviewed on a particular website. But I don't need some amazon.com
user speaking for all Zappa fans, any more than I need Lowe to tell me
which Zappa songs are "hilarious".
I could go on and on about typos (e.g. "Halvah Nagilah" on page
201--isn't that an Israeli dessert?), factual errors (as on page 205,
where he says that Ahead Of Their Time was recorded at the Royal Albert
Hall, Does Humor Belong In Music? "documents the 1982 band", FZ:OZ
"documents the 1976-77 band", and YCDTOSA "spans a 30-year touring
history"--all in the same sentence), and bad editing (like the paragraph
on pages 106-107, which goes back and forth between talking about
Overnite Sensation and talking about both Overnite Sensation and
Apostrophe).
I'm not sorry I read it, but it wouldn't be the first book that I'd
recommend to someone looking for a book on FZ.
--Charles
Just Another
Charles Ulrich <ulr...@sfu.ca> wrote:
Informative review, thanks. Was there any interesting discussion of
lyrics?
Yesterdays Wafflez
ulr...@sfu.ca (Charles Ulrich) Wrote:
..I'm not sorry I read it, but it wouldn't be the first book that I'd
recommend to someone looking for a book on FZ.
--Charles
Thanks lots for that review Charles, I almost $ it but will hold back.
Rock & Jazz bio writings full of flaws like those mentioned (especially
with FZ) are so horrible! The guy had to do enough with straightening
authors and such when he was alive!
Much like the 'Miles' bio and 'Jaco Pastorious' but worse is 'Listening
to the Future-The Time of Progressive Rock' by Bill Martin. The prog
is in pretty good order not straying too much but his Zappa pages are
quotes from 'Poodle Play' and doesn't even mention guitar playing or
hardly any other FZ recordings other than his music was close to Henry
Cow & Soft Machine. Then at least every other paragraph is a blurb from
his previous book on the music of Yes.
(so irritating).
What do you think of Slaven's 'Electric Don Quixote'?
Thanks again!
Y.W.
John Henley
<ulr...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> I just finished reading The Words and Music of Frank Zappa by Kelly
> Fisher Lowe.
Was this review helpful to you? __X__ Yes ____ No
John Henley
Martin Gregorie
researched biog covering more about FZ's life outside albums and music.
I'm very far from being an expert on FZ books, but in this case I think
"The Real Frank Zappa Book" is a lot more enjoyable and informative.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
Yesterdays Wafflez wrote:
> Much like the 'Miles' bio and 'Jaco Pastorious' but worse is 'Listening
> to the Future-The Time of Progressive Rock' by Bill Martin. The prog
> is in pretty good order not straying too much but his Zappa pages are
> quotes from 'Poodle Play' and doesn't even mention guitar playing or
> hardly any other FZ recordings other than his music was close to Henry
> Cow & Soft Machine. Then at least every other paragraph is a blurb from
> his previous book on the music of Yes.
I've met Bill. Nice guy. He doesn't get FZ, though. It didn't seem
worth debating him about it.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
The Duke of Prunes
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> I just finished reading The Words and Music of Frank Zappa by Kelly
> Fisher Lowe.
>
> I'm afraid the title is a misnomer. The book is primarily about FZ's
> lyrics, with little about his music. Lowe admits on page xvii that "I am
> much more at home working with lyrics than I am working with music".
> <snip a lot>
> I'm not sorry I read it, but it wouldn't be the first book that I'd
> recommend to someone looking for a book on FZ.
>
> --Charles
I bought it and started reading it, but I had to put it down after the
first hundred pages or so. For me it didn't provide any new perspective
whatsoever on FZ and as such was incredibly disappointing. I'll take
Watson's weird exegesis over Lowe's sloppy, ill-informed plowing
through the albums any day of the week -- I really liked (for instance)
the discussion of Watermelon in Easter Hay in the Esemplastic book
(whatever the hell it was called) -- may not be accurate, but at least
it tries to pop the hood of the work and figure out what's really going
on.
the duke.
Strictly Commercial
> Much like the 'Miles' bio and 'Jaco Pastorious' but worse is 'Listening
> to the Future-The Time of Progressive Rock' by Bill Martin. The prog
> is in pretty good order not straying too much but his Zappa pages are
> quotes from 'Poodle Play' and doesn't even mention guitar playing or
> hardly any other FZ recordings other than his music was close to Henry
> Cow & Soft Machine. Then at least every other paragraph is a blurb from
> his previous book on the music of Yes.
> (so irritating).
In fact Lowe in his book is trying to make the case for FZ's music as
"prog rock", which is why he writes about some albums (the more "prog
rock" ones) and not about others.
Charles said it was poorly edited; my professional opinion is that it
was not (professionally) edited at all. An editor (who doesn't
necessarily edit manuscripts as such) for Praeger, looking for a title
in his "American singer-songwriter" series, heard about Lowe and
contracted with him for the manuscript. The title is almost certainly
the publisher's, as within the body of the book itself Lowe takes pains
to state that he knows little about music and is mostly concerned with
the lyrics and presentation of the material. The manuscript was almost
certainly spell-checked, as this is what passes for editing at a lot of
firms these days, and then set by an offshore typesetting firm, possibly
in India, and issued with no absolutely unavoidable expense spared.
(Well, that's not entirely fair: the book is well bound.) A shoddy piece
of work all round.
Rolf
Charles Ulrich
Strictly Commercial <maure...@telus.net> wrote:
> Charles said it was poorly edited; my professional opinion is that it
> was not (professionally) edited at all.
Well, I have pretty high standards for non-professional editing.
> The manuscript was almost certainly spell-checked, as this is what
> passes for editing at a lot of firms these days
Strangely, their spell-checker missed two occurrences of Honza for Hozna
(pages 184, 259).
--Charles
Charles Ulrich
"The Duke of Prunes" <dukeo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I bought it and started reading it, but I had to put it down after the
> first hundred pages or so. For me it didn't provide any new perspective
> whatsoever on FZ and as such was incredibly disappointing. I'll take
> Watson's weird exegesis over Lowe's sloppy, ill-informed plowing
> through the albums any day of the week -- I really liked (for instance)
> the discussion of Watermelon in Easter Hay in the Esemplastic book
> (whatever the hell it was called)
Academy Zappa.
Note that the Watermelon article (which I haven't read yet; that book
has sat on my shelf half-read longer than the Lowe book did) is not by
Watson, but by one T. H. F. Drenching.
> -- may not be accurate, but at least
> it tries to pop the hood of the work and figure out what's really going
> on.
--Charles
cheevyjames
Why is it that most books about FZ just suck? Of all the one's I've
read so far, the only one I really enjoyed and was worth reading
(besides TRFZB) was Greg Russo's. All the rest, Miles' Bio, the Watson
book...all of those just bite.
Maybe it's because most people can relate to song lyrics, but can't
relate to actual *music*...but why do nearly all of the books focus on
his lyrics and not his music? Of course he was a very good lyricist,
but his primary focus was nearly always the music. Why is that so hard
to figure out?
Just once I'd like to see a book that analyzes FZ's MUSIC.
I greatly look forward to what you're doing, Charles; I think THAT will
be what we're all looking for.
James (I still can't believe that in the Miles bio he got FZ's death
date wrong. Ugh.)
Bill
"cheevyjames" <cheev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
> > In article <1160150568....@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> > "The Duke of Prunes" <dukeo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I bought it and started reading it, but I had to put it down after the
> > > first hundred pages or so. For me it didn't provide any new perspective
> > > whatsoever on FZ and as such was incredibly disappointing. I'll take
> > > Watson's weird exegesis over Lowe's sloppy, ill-informed plowing
> > > through the albums any day of the week -- I really liked (for instance)
> > > the discussion of Watermelon in Easter Hay in the Esemplastic book
> > > (whatever the hell it was called)
> >
> > Academy Zappa.
> >
> > Note that the Watermelon article (which I haven't read yet; that book
> > has sat on my shelf half-read longer than the Lowe book did) is not by
> > Watson, but by one T. H. F. Drenching.
> >
> > > -- may not be accurate, but at least
> > > it tries to pop the hood of the work and figure out what's really going
> > > on.
> >
> > --Charles
>
> Why is it that most books about FZ just suck?
Because most books suck. But we're more likely to subject ourselves to
bad books about FZ than, say, bad books about Bobby Sherman or Jimmy
Durante.
Tomasz Michalak
something, a smidgen of some value that could salvage the book? Takes a lot
of passion to write a book. I wonder if there are passages or parts, faulty
or not, that show some of that passion.
globual
"Strictly Commercial" <maure...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:aavVg.3704$H7.454@edtnps82...
Yesterdays Wafflez
tmic...@shaw.ca (Tomasz Michalak) Wrote:
..wow, guys, he's getting pretty lowe rating all right. Is there not
something, a smidgen of some value that could salvage the book? Takes a
lot of passion to write a book. I wonder if there are passages or parts,
faulty or not, that show some of that passion.
I kind of agree, a passion with limited FZ-in- depth knowledge, chose
inexpensive publishing, or is 'Only In It For The Money?"
Some pubishers such as iUniverse do printing on demand and edit well and
will place you in many on-line stores as a package deal.
Charles will show them the way to do it I'm sure! That'll be awesome!
Y.W.
NP: Proto~Cosmos by Tony Williams Lifetime
Gary
> Just once I'd like to see a book that analyzes FZ's MUSIC.
Did you see the PhD thesis on the Be-Bop tango? That's some pretty
heavy "lifting".
Anonymous via Panta Rhei
I only have one question: What the fuck kind of boy's name is KELLY?
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Piper
> I only have one question: What the fuck kind of boy's name is KELLY?
Don't ever ask that question of a man with a machine gun in his hands.
Chris West
>In fact Lowe in his book is trying to make the case for FZ's music as
>"prog rock", which is why he writes about some albums (the more "prog
>rock" ones) and not about others.
I think some of his music is definitely prog rock. (Most of what he
performed in 1973 and 1974 for starters.) I'd love to see someone write
about time signatures in Echidna's Arf and Inca Roads. But why would you
focus on the lyrics of the prog rock period??
--
Chris West
David Z
message news:HE2TGAW838997.6586689815@anonymous.poster...
> I only have one question: What the fuck kind of boy's name is KELLY?
Irish.
What the fuck kind of name is anonymous?
Chris West
>I just finished reading The Words and Music of Frank Zappa by Kelly
>Fisher Lowe.
>
>I'm afraid the title is a misnomer. The book is primarily about FZ's
>lyrics, with little about his music. Lowe admits on page xvii that "I am
>much more at home working with lyrics than I am working with music".
That's typical of just about every book about 'rock music'. They all go
on about the lyrics, because it's easier to talk about.
>When he does talk about music, he proves this point. On page 53, he
>talks about "Lonely Little Girl" on WOIIFTM, referring to "a great
>trumpet part... vaguely Mexican flavor... very influenced by the stock
>music that you would hear in the Westerns of the fifties and sixties".
>Perhaps he's talking about the lick under "the way you feel". But isn't
>that played on an electric guitar? Is there any trumpet at all on this
>track? I re-listened to three versions (mono, stereo, remix) and
>couldn't detect any.
>On page 88, he talks about trumpet in "Would You Go All The Way?" and
>tuba in "Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink", when the liner notes should
>make it clear that the only brass instrument on these songs is George
>Duke's trombone.
I'm sure there's no trumpet on WOIIFTM or Chunga's Revenge, but I have a
certain amount of sympathy, because I'm always hearing trumpet in
Zappa's music when I know it's not there! And not just the sped-up
clarinets on Uncle Meat. A lot of the time Bruce Fowler sounded like a
trumpet, and even Ian Underwood on sax. I think a trumpet is one of
those sounds that Zappa imagined a lot, like mallet percussion.
>As for his discussion of FZ's lyrics, I'd say it tells you more about
>Kelly Fisher Lowe than it does about Frank Zappa. In that respect, it
>was reminiscent of Ben Watson's Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play (not
>that Watson's book tells us much about Lowe). But I think Watson would
>acknowledge that his interpretations of FZ's lyrics don't necessarily
>reflect FZ's own intentions--and argue that there's no reason they
>should. On the other hand, I get the feeling that Lowe believes he
>really is describing FZ's feelings. And he hasn't persuaded me that he's
>right.
Watson goes to great lengths to make clear that he doesn't believe Zappa
read any Joyce or Shakespeare (at least in the edition I've got). I
think his book is very entertaining. For instance, I find the idea that
the otherwise worthless track, Panty Rap, represents Zappa's entire
career ('What else has been doing all this time but make art out of
America's dirty linen?) to be jaw-droppingly perceptive.
--
Chris West
Charles Ulrich
Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ulrich-BFA93F.15535405102006@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
> <ulr...@sfu.ca> writes
>
> >When he does talk about music, he proves this point. On page 53, he
> >talks about "Lonely Little Girl" on WOIIFTM, referring to "a great
> >trumpet part... vaguely Mexican flavor... very influenced by the stock
> >music that you would hear in the Westerns of the fifties and sixties".
> >Perhaps he's talking about the lick under "the way you feel". But isn't
> >that played on an electric guitar? Is there any trumpet at all on this
> >track? I re-listened to three versions (mono, stereo, remix) and
> >couldn't detect any.
>
> >On page 88, he talks about trumpet in "Would You Go All The Way?" and
> >tuba in "Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink", when the liner notes should
> >make it clear that the only brass instrument on these songs is George
> >Duke's trombone.
>
> I'm sure there's no trumpet on WOIIFTM or Chunga's Revenge, but I have a
> certain amount of sympathy, because I'm always hearing trumpet in
> Zappa's music when I know it's not there!
I wanted Lowe to be right about "Lonely Little Girl". Note that JCB is
credited for playing trumpet on WOIIFTM. But I haven't been able to
detect any. Of course, it could just be a credit for playing trumpet in
the Mothers, not necessarily on the album.
> And not just the sped-up clarinets on Uncle Meat. A lot of the time
> Bruce Fowler sounded like a trumpet,
As I recall, even William Price, in his aforementioned dissertation on
BeBop Tango, was confused about that. Of course, I think BeBop Tango,
Revised Music For Guitar And Low-Budget Orchestra, and Regyptian Strut
all involve sped-up trombones, which are likely to sound even more like
trumpets.
> and even Ian Underwood on sax.
When it wasn't sounding like an electric violin.
--Charles
Charles Ulrich
"Tomasz Michalak" <tmic...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> wow, guys, he's getting pretty lowe rating all right. Is there not
> something, a smidgen of some value that could salvage the book? Takes a lot
> of passion to write a book. I wonder if there are passages or parts, faulty
> or not, that show some of that passion.
I read most of it over a month ago. To be honest, the main thing I
remember is the errors making me mad. (My wife will confirm this.) I'd
be glad to lend you my copy if you want to read it and report back on
the good parts.
--Charles
Chris West
>In article <fQxjf2x7...@zadok.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <ulrich-BFA93F.15535405102006@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
>> <ulr...@sfu.ca> writes
>> certain amount of sympathy, because I'm always hearing trumpet in
>> Zappa's music when I know it's not there!
>
>I wanted Lowe to be right about "Lonely Little Girl". Note that JCB is
>credited for playing trumpet on WOIIFTM. But I haven't been able to
>detect any. Of course, it could just be a credit for playing trumpet in
>the Mothers, not necessarily on the album.
I'd forgotten that. Maybe he's talking about a different song by
mistake?
>> And not just the sped-up clarinets on Uncle Meat. A lot of the time
>> Bruce Fowler sounded like a trumpet,
>
>As I recall, even William Price, in his aforementioned dissertation on
>BeBop Tango, was confused about that. Of course, I think BeBop Tango,
>Revised Music For Guitar And Low-Budget Orchestra, and Regyptian Strut
>all involve sped-up trombones, which are likely to sound even more like
>trumpets.
Even the live tapes of Bruce Fowler sound like he's playing trumpet. You
don't need to speed him up!
>> and even Ian Underwood on sax.
>
>When it wasn't sounding like an electric violin.
Underwood had to make an electric violin sound because Ponty was busy
sounding like a trumpet too (before Sal Marquez joined).
--
Chris West
Kelly Lowe
project from the start and there is, in the future, the hope that I will get
a chance to fix many of the errors.
I wanted to supply just a bit of context:
It was not, and was never, intended to be an academic book. In fact, upon
delivery of the original manuscript, I was asked to revise it for a more
general audience. My only "scholarly" hope was to collect some of the loose
bibliographic information in one place so someone working on Zappa in the
future would have an easier time of it.
Second, because of the success of the series, the due date was pushed
forward by almost a year. Any hopes at close copy editing on my part, or
the part of the production company (a third party group) were ruined (it
was, in fact, edited in India - which is the reason that many of the
footnotes are off). The egregious "stratocaster and a fender 'camp'" error
came about by an officious copy editor who took it upon herself to change
many things (including the many insertions of The Three Dog Night into the
ms); for the record, it was "champ" through both sets of galleys that I ever
saw.
Third, to date, I haven't made a dime off the book. The argument that I'm
only in it for the money is only partly true (it's abstract - academics
write books in order to receive promotions, so the money I'll make off the
book is that one year I might get a 5% raise instead of a 2.5% raise). I
felt, when I was asked by Preager to write a book for their series, that it
would be fun to spend a year with Zappa. It was.
Fourth, it's not a fan's book - by that I mean that Zappa's fans have a
unique relationship to him and I had no illusions that I would be shedding
any new light on Zappa's music (which was never the purpose of the book).
It was, and is, my only hope that someone would stumble across the book in a
library, get interested in Zappa, and check him and his music out. Period.
Fifth, if anyone's interested, I have been offered a chance to revise the
book (slightly) for a new edition. Any spelling/puncuation errors
(including the now infamous "camp" error) can and will be fixed &c. If you
see them, you can certainly send them to me and you will be duely noted in
the acknowledgements. In terms of the readings/opinions, well, those are
mine. They needen't be yours.
Finally, there's nothing I can do about my name. It's the one I was given
by my parents.
With regards,
Kelly Lowe
Univesity of Wyoming
Charles Ulrich
Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ulrich-62373C.15434607102006@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
> <ulr...@sfu.ca> writes
> >In article <fQxjf2x7...@zadok.demon.co.uk>,
> > Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm sure there's no trumpet on WOIIFTM or Chunga's Revenge, but I have a
> >> certain amount of sympathy, because I'm always hearing trumpet in
> >> Zappa's music when I know it's not there!
> >
> >I wanted Lowe to be right about "Lonely Little Girl". Note that JCB is
> >credited for playing trumpet on WOIIFTM. But I haven't been able to
> >detect any. Of course, it could just be a credit for playing trumpet in
> >the Mothers, not necessarily on the album.
>
> I'd forgotten that. Maybe he's talking about a different song by
> mistake?
But you said in your previous post that you were sure there was no
trumpet anywhere on the album. Unless you think he was talking about a
different album by mistake...
Anyway, I think I know the lick he was referring to. It's just that it's
played on electric guitar, not trumpet.
--Charles
Yesterdays Wafflez
Group: alt.fan.frank-zappa Date: Sun, Oct 8, 2006, 10:15am (PDT+1) From:
kl...@bresnan.net (Kelly Lowe) Wrote:
"Fifth, if anyone's interested, I have been offered a chance to revise
the book (slightly) for a new edition. Any spelling/puncuation errors
(including the now infamous "camp" error) can and will be fixed..."
???What? Why go through all that so we can re-read what we already know
was wrong!?
How about-
Sixth, I stop writing for a while.
Y.W.
Chris West
>In article <nB29rD3n...@zadok.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <ulrich-62373C.15434607102006@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
>> <ulr...@sfu.ca> writes
>> >In article <fQxjf2x7...@zadok.demon.co.uk>,
>> > Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm sure there's no trumpet on WOIIFTM or Chunga's Revenge, but I have a
>> >> certain amount of sympathy, because I'm always hearing trumpet in
>> >> Zappa's music when I know it's not there!
>> >
>> >I wanted Lowe to be right about "Lonely Little Girl". Note that JCB is
>> >credited for playing trumpet on WOIIFTM. But I haven't been able to
>> >detect any. Of course, it could just be a credit for playing trumpet in
>> >the Mothers, not necessarily on the album.
>>
>> I'd forgotten that. Maybe he's talking about a different song by
>> mistake?
>
>But you said in your previous post that you were sure there was no
>trumpet anywhere on the album. Unless you think he was talking about a
>different album by mistake...
I *was* sure there was no trumpet on the album, but only because of the
line-up, not because I'd searched for a trumpet. The credits suggest I
might be wrong! I'll have to give it a listen sometime with that in
mind.
>Anyway, I think I know the lick he was referring to. It's just that it's
>played on electric guitar, not trumpet.
I thought that particular lick seems a bit short to warrant such a
fulsome description - "a great trumpet part... vaguely Mexican flavor...
very influenced by the stock music that you would hear in the Westerns
of the fifties and sixties" - but anyway Kelly's here now so he can say
which bit he means!
--
Chris West
Strictly Commercial
And what the fuck kind of a girlie-boy's name is Anonymous?
Rollo
Strictly Commercial
> I think some of his music is definitely prog rock. (Most of what he
> performed in 1973 and 1974 for starters.) I'd love to see someone write
> about time signatures in Echidna's Arf and Inca Roads. But why would you
> focus on the lyrics of the prog rock period??
Easy: you don't know what to say about the music itself.
R
Strictly Commercial
> First off, thanks, anyone, for reading this book. It was a compromised
> project from the start and there is, in the future, the hope that I will get
> a chance to fix many of the errors.
>
> I wanted to supply just a bit of context:
None of this surprises me. As a book publisher myself, I know what my
colleagues are up against, sometimes, and I know too that, sometimes,
they feel the need to share that pain with their writers.
I also realize that your book was not intended for the hardcore Zappa
fan who, as you probably anticipated, would gleefully jump on any
factual / editorial / proofreading error, while glossing over whatever
points you're actually trying to make. I understood that you are
attempting to place Zappa within a tradition of "progressive rock"
(along with all the other traditions he's also part of) and in this you
succeed, as far as I'm concerned. I didn't get any sense that you were
trying to write the definitive book on Zappa and/or his music, or that
you were trying to correct somebody else's mis-interpretations; you seem
quite happy to see others comment on other aspects of FZ's work.
I'm less convinced by your argument that FZ was pro-feminist in any way,
shape, or form. In fact, the "ugliness" of so much of Zappa's work,
including the ugliness of some of his attitudes, is not something that
lies alongside or apart from the beautiful aspects work: it's all part
and parcel of the project/object. Zappa's artistic aim, I believe, was
to encrust moments of beauty with splashes of ugliness, thus causing us
to think about (or, as they might say in the academy, thus
problematizing) our notions of beauty in art. Therefore, it makes no
sense to try to rehabilitate his bad attitudes about this or that.
You'll like Charles's book, which should be out late next year.
Rolf
Yesterdays Wafflez
maure...@telus.net (Strictly Commercial) Wrote:
"...I also realize that your book was not intended for the hardcore
Zappa fan who, as you probably anticipated, would gleefully jump on any
factual / editorial / proofreading error, while glossing over whatever
points you're actually trying to make...."
? So any author who isn't "too serious" about his subject matter is
allowed to put less effort into his work, do a sloppy job? Bullshit!
My father has written 4 books 3 of which my job was to painstakingly
proofread before submitting. I understand your manuscript can get
butchered a bit in publishing beyond control BUT this Lowe effort to me
is a writer not really into his topic & wrote an essay.
"You'll like Charles's book, which should be out late next year."
Rolf
Yes, I'm looking fwd to that too and we ALL KNOW Charles has a true
Zappa dedication.
Y.W.
Charles Ulrich
Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ulrich-C89D29.11300708102006@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
> <ulr...@sfu.ca> writes
> >In article <nB29rD3n...@zadok.demon.co.uk>,
> > Chris West <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> I *was* sure there was no trumpet on the album, but only because of the
> line-up, not because I'd searched for a trumpet. The credits suggest I
> might be wrong! I'll have to give it a listen sometime with that in
> mind.
Jimmy Carl Black definitely played (bass) trumpet on stage with the
Mothers. According to Bunk Gardner (quoted in Necessity Is..., p. 60),
JCB rarely played drums when Billy Mundi was in the band. He can be seen
playing trumpet in In Memoriam: Hieronymus Bosch
<http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/videography/1965-69.html#BitterEnd> and
heard playing it in Where's Our Equipment (YCDTOSA 5).
> >Anyway, I think I know the lick he was referring to. It's just that it's
> >played on electric guitar, not trumpet.
>
> I thought that particular lick seems a bit short to warrant such a
> fulsome description - "a great trumpet part... vaguely Mexican flavor...
> very influenced by the stock music that you would hear in the Westerns
> of the fifties and sixties"
The remix has electric guitar through more of the song than the original
version.
> - but anyway Kelly's here now so he can say which bit he means!
and which mix he was listening to.
--Charles
Charles Ulrich
Yesterda...@webtv.net (Yesterdays Wafflez) wrote:
> Yes, I'm looking fwd to that too and we ALL KNOW Charles has a true
> Zappa dedication.
Whereas Lowe has a job and perhaps a life.
--Charles
David Z
> I'm less convinced by your argument that FZ was
> pro-feminist in any way, shape, or form.
Frank was pro-thinking and anti-stupidity. I suspect that Frank held
both men and women to that same standard.
I'd call that pro-men and pro-women.
> In fact, the "ugliness" of so much of Zappa's work..
Which parts?
> ...including the ugliness of some of his attitudes, is not something
> that lies alongside or apart from the beautiful aspects work:
While, I disagree with some of Frank's views, I wouldn't call any of his
attitudes "ugly."
Which of Frank's attitudes do you think were ugly?
> ...it's all part and parcel of the project/object. Zappa's artistic
aim,
> I believe, was to encrust moments of beauty with splashes of
> ugliness, thus causing us to think about (or, as they might say in
> ? the academy, thus problematizing) our notions of beauty in art.
I question your judgements of ugliness. And I suspect that Frank might
not have agreed with them, either.
Frank's music provides many contrasts, which enhance the more beautiful
parts. I wouldn't call the contrasting parts ugly (although I do skip
over them once in a while <G>), just part of the whole. It's "all
good." I think the label of "ugliness" may be yours and not Frank's.
> Therefore, it makes no sense to try to rehabilitate
> his bad attitudes about this or that.
Which "bad attitudes" are you referring to?
Tomasz Michalak
> read any Joyce or Shakespeare
Watson is an interesting case here because essentially he doesn't err. He's
interested in finding associations and connections, often loose, between
different events in Zappa's work as well as events outside of the world of
Zappa. Hence he can do a Shakespearean reading of Apostrophe without having
to claim that Zappa was familiar with King Lear. Certain inaccuracies in
Watson may seem unfortunate but it's important to understand the nature of
his project. In Academy Zappa, in the Appendix, we find this little
manifesto (on page 237, coming from a piece of paper slapped on top of
Shakespeare, whose distinct forehead and part of right eye we see behind the
text):
"Conceptual Continuity means that each new production alters past material
(analeotorically). Charting this alteration is the activity in which the
Zappologist leaves rationality behind, because it becomes impossible to
distinguish sensible exposition from personal extension via bogus
speculation. And who the hell wants to get to the 'real' FZ when the only
reason he's interesting is that he interests me (or you)."
Watson maintains it's impossible to recover facts if they are tied up in
relationships that keep changing over time. Rationality is useless if it's
impossible to use. Fair enough. I can understand what he's doing and why.
Rationality can be effective in many situations, but it's also compelling to
"leave it behind" in certain cases. There's no fault in the claim, and
Watson is consistent in following this method. Notice that the second
sentence quoted above in a clever way performs its own kind of
impossibility. Whereas you'd expect the verb "distinguish" to operate
between two clearly marked things, here we have a series of three items that
slide into one another, causing some confusion (indeed it's difficult to
distinguish one thing from another thing via - by way of - a third thing).
Painter Willem De Kooning went through a phase of his life during which he'd
blindfold himself and try to sculpt a sphere out of clay, finding this to be
a challenging task but interesting nonetheless. Some may wonder why he
wouldn't rather run to the store and get himself a basketball.
globual
"Chris West" <ch...@zadok.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fQxjf2x7...@zadok.demon.co.uk...
Tomasz Michalak
> shape, or form.
I haven't read the book yet so I cannot comment on your point. But try to
see Your Vote, a television documentary from October 1991. I was quite taken
by the tone of this film. There's a fair amount of attention to the
suffragettes, and not simply because the plight of women for their voting
rights is part of history that needed to be covered. Zappa comes across as
someone very strongly in support of social justice and equality so much so
that some of his flippantly sexist comments from elsewhere don't seem to
carry a lot of significance by comparison. It's good to see people try to
unravel this confusing and difficult area of Zappology.
globual
"Strictly Commercial" <maure...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:vwdWg.7109$H7.1598@edtnps82...
Tomasz Michalak
written by Gamma and "embellished with some fragrant fragmenta deriving from
the Esemplasm." The passage I quoted earlier shouldn't have been attributed
to Ben Watson (though he might have had a hand in penning it as it sure
sounds a lot like him) and becomes a clumsy attempt to illustrate his
philosophy.
globual
"Tomasz Michalak" <tmic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:aujWg.115826$R63.68738@pd7urf1no...
John Henley
<spam...@verizon.net> wrote:
> bad books about Bobby Sherman or Jimmy Durante.
Jimmy Durante does NOT belong in the same grouping
with Bobby Sherman, please.
I like him.
Durante was the pianist on some of the earliest
jazz records to be issued - "Ole Miss Rag" and "Ja-Da", by
the Original New Orleans Jazz Band, released in 1917-18
in direct competition with the Original Dixieland Jazz
Band. He pounds the shit out of that thing, too.
John Henley
John Henley
<tmic...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Takes a lot of passion to write a book.
Nice sentiment, but actually it doesn't. Takes a
fair amount of _energy_, plus a publishing contract.
Case in point: A book published a few years
ago called "Same Time...Same Station," a historical
guide to old time radio broadcasts written by one
Ron Lackmann. Those of us who dig the topic and
saw the book quickly discovered that it was 350
pages long and covered many titles - and the guy
had no earthly clue what he was talking about and
not much interest in correcting his errors - WHICH
OCCURRED ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE
350 PAGES.
If there was even one droplet of passion in that
project, it was waaayyy buried under the desire for
the paycheck promised by said contract.
John Henley
cheevyjames
Kelly, thanks for responding to this thread. It sucks that you had so
many problems with the editing. Hopefully your goal of getting new
fans into FZ will be successful.
I haven't read the book yet, but hopefully I'll get the chance to
soon...mistakes and all.
James
zappa...@yahoo.com
wrote:
god bless wyoming !
and god help them when i arrive !
Yesterdays Wafflez
zappa...@yahoo.com WROTE:
god bless wyoming !
and god help them when i arrive !
I THOUGHT IT WAS FIJI?......Oh, That's the other ASSHOLEFUCKHEAD!
Yesterdays Wafflez
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WHAT CAN YOU DO EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A NINJA !
Yesterdays Wafflez
My apologeez! Really sorry, I thought you were the Fiji Zappanijna!
Too many Ninjas around lately.
Sorry man,
Y.W.