Really Bad Idea

[Howard]

Tempe Arizona police force announce plan to pull over drivers who are
following the law to give them a coupon for a free gas station drink.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155825651213131777

After an understandable uproar, they announced they will not be pulling
anyone over, just approaching drivers (how?) who have followed the law.

[Jeff Green]

Back when I was a kid cops would stop you and give you safe driver
citations. Of course, they didn't stop you on the road but if you pulled
into a parking lot or something they'd approach your car and be all nice
and sweet and shit. Today they'll drag you out and beat you or kill you,
skin color dependent.

J

[Alfalfa Bill]

Tulsa County Sheriff deputies recently arrested a 41-year-old black man named Adam James for "over-obeying" them. James was following the standard advice for blacks stopped by the police: he moved slowly, kept his hands raised as much as possible, and repeated the deputies' commands before he acted to be sure there was no misunderstanding.

He must be drunk or on drugs the deputies concluded and took him for a blood draw and then threw him in jail.

The blood draw detected no evidence of alcohol or drugs.

The man spent a night in jail and spent thousands of dollars on attorney fees.

When all was said and done the Sheriff refused to apologize. The absence of any objective evidence that James was intoxicated indicates that he was on some drug they don't test for.

So a black man in Tulsa County can be arrested for taking pains to be sure he gives a deputy no excuse to shoot him. Instead, he is arrested for alcohol/drugs and a clean blood test is just evidence he was on drugs.

[Questor]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:32:50 -0700 (PDT), Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 6:33:37 PM UTC-5, Jeff Green wrote:
>>On 7/29/2019 1:38 PM, Howard wrote:
>>>Tempe Arizona police force announce plan to pull over drivers who are
>>>following the law to give them a coupon for a free gas station drink.
>>>
>>>https://twitter.com/i/status/1155825651213131777
>>>
>>> After an understandable uproar, they announced they will not be pulling
>>> anyone over, just approaching drivers (how?) who have followed the law.
>>
>>Back when I was a kid cops would stop you and give you safe driver
>>citations. Of course, they didn't stop you on the road but if you pulled
>
>>into a parking lot or something they'd approach your car and be all nice
>
>>and sweet and shit. Today they'll drag you out and beat you or kill you,
>
>>skin color dependent.
>

>Tulsa County Sheriff deputies recently arrested a 41-year-old black man named
> Adam James for "over-obeying" them. James was following the standard
>advice for blacks stopped by the police: he moved slowly, kept his hands
>raised as much as possible, and repeated the deputies' commands before he
>acted to be sure there was no misunderstanding.
>
>He must be drunk or on drugs the deputies concluded and took him for a blood
>draw and then threw him in jail.
>
>The blood draw detected no evidence of alcohol or drugs.
>
>The man spent a night in jail and spent thousands of dollars on attorney fees.
>
>When all was said and done the Sheriff refused to apologize. The absence of
>any objective evidence that James was intoxicated indicates that he was on
>some drug they don't test for.
>
>So a black man in Tulsa County can be arrested for taking pains to be sure
>he gives a deputy no excuse to shoot him. Instead, he is arrested for
>alcohol/drugs and a clean blood test is just evidence he was on drugs.

Philando Castile was murdered while following the standard advice. Tamir Rice
was summarily executed. There is deep, systemic racism in the United States,
and it extends disproportionately into law enforcement agencies.

[Beaver Fever]

Now if he was female there might have been a way to get off with a warning.

https://casetext.com/case/plummer-v-town-of-dickson

[Beaver Fever]

If I were a cop in Urban America I would probably be racist too

[Alfalfa Bill]

Yes, I think you would be too.

[Alfalfa Bill]

Wow, I'm impressed with your cite.

Officer Ruiz from your case is a piker. Officer Holtzclaw in Oklahoma City was convicted of eighteen counts involving eight different women and acquitted for the other half of his victims. (Unlikely as the coincidence may be, his case will be in the news later today.)

The Judge in the case you cited, Jim Payne, is a former college football player and one of the nicest fellows you could ever hope to meet, but perhaps not a cutting edge
legal scholar. I appealed him to the the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals 6 times and won every time with two of the cases published.

However, Judge Payne (then a magistrate) was the person who prevented Oklahoma from executing an innocent man in John Gresham's book The Innocent Man: Murder and Injustice in a Small Town, and for that everyone in Oklahoma owes him a debt of gratitude.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innocent_Man:_Murder_and_Injustice_in_a_Small_Town

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Holtzclaw

[danny burstein]

In <0d566967-e4dd-4542...@googlegroups.com> Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com> writes:

>Wow, I'm impressed with your cite.

>Officer Ruiz from your case is a piker. Officer Holtzclaw in Oklahoma Ci=
>ty was convicted of eighteen counts involving eight different women and acq=
>uitted for the other half of his victims. (Unlikely as the coincidence may =

>be, his case will be in the news later today.)

fyi, Michelle Malkin has convinced herself he is an innocent
victim of a witchhunt and is helping lead a fundraising, etc.,
movement to get him cleared


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Alfalfa Bill]

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 1:00:57 AM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
> In <0d566967-e4dd-4542...@googlegroups.com> Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com> writes:
>
> >Wow, I'm impressed with your cite.
>
> >Officer Ruiz from your case is a piker. Officer Holtzclaw in Oklahoma Ci=
> >ty was convicted of eighteen counts involving eight different women and acq=
> >uitted for the other half of his victims. (Unlikely as the coincidence may =
> >be, his case will be in the news later today.)
>
> fyi, Michelle Malkin has convinced herself he is an innocent
> victim of a witchhunt and is helping lead a fundraising, etc.,
> movement to get him cleared

Interesting! I did not follow the case closely.

The Oklahoma Court Of Criminal Appeals announced earlier this week that it would release a decision in his case today, Thursday. That is a first. The OCCA never announces beforehand when it will release its decision.

[ungrace...@aol.com]

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 2:00:57 AM UTC-4, danny burstein wrote:
> In <0d566967-e4dd-4542...@googlegroups.com> Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com> writes:
>
> >Wow, I'm impressed with your cite.
>
> >Officer Ruiz from your case is a piker. Officer Holtzclaw in Oklahoma Ci=
> >ty was convicted of eighteen counts involving eight different women and acq=
> >uitted for the other half of his victims. (Unlikely as the coincidence may =
> >be, his case will be in the news later today.)
>
> fyi, Michelle Malkin has convinced herself he is an innocent
> victim of a witchhunt and is helping lead a fundraising, etc.,
> movement to get him cleared

Some have taken a perfect;y acceptable word ("witchhunt") and twisted it to mean "I don't have any objectively appropriate and legally pertinent response to your allegations"

[Howard]

Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com> wrote in

The case that sticks with me is Charles Kinsey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey

It underlines how strong the institutional bias toward solving things
with gunfire can be.

[Alfalfa Bill]

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 1:00:57 AM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:

> In <0d566967-e4dd-4542...@googlegroups.com> Alfalfa Bill <tedth...@aol.com> writes:
>
> >Wow, I'm impressed with your cite.
>
> >Officer Ruiz from your case is a piker. Officer Holtzclaw in Oklahoma Ci=
> >ty was convicted of eighteen counts involving eight different women and acq=
> >uitted for the other half of his victims. (Unlikely as the coincidence may =
> >be, his case will be in the news later today.)
>
> fyi, Michelle Malkin has convinced herself he is an innocent
> victim of a witchhunt and is helping lead a fundraising, etc.,
> movement to get him cleared

Holtzclaw lost his appeal today. The decision is a pretty ho-hum decision and it appears his appeal was nothing but bullshit.

The only thing that looks at all unusual is Proposition III where Holtzclaw claims that a "circus atmosphere" throughout the trial deprived him of a fundamentally fair trial. It sounds like bullshit to me.

https://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeid=486187

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y3phbxgh

[Questor]

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:41:10 -0700 (PDT), Beaver Fever <Beaver...@live.com>
wrote:

If? Through your posts in this newsgroup over the years, you've demonstrated
you're already a racist.

[Questor]

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:40:36 -0700 (PDT), Beaver Fever <Beaver...@live.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:32:51 PM UTC-7, Alfalfa Bill wrote:
>> On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 6:33:37 PM UTC-5, Jeff Green wrote:
>> > On 7/29/2019 1:38 PM, Howard wrote:
>> > > Tempe Arizona police force announce plan to pull over drivers who are
>> > > following the law to give them a coupon for a free gas station drink.
>> > >
>> > > https://twitter.com/i/status/1155825651213131777
>> > >
>> > > After an understandable uproar, they announced they will not be pulling
>> > > anyone over, just approaching drivers (how?) who have followed the law.
>> >
>> > Back when I was a kid cops would stop you and give you safe driver
>> > citations. Of course, they didn't stop you on the road but if you pulled
>> > into a parking lot or something they'd approach your car and be all nice
>> > and sweet and shit. Today they'll drag you out and beat you or kill you,
>> > skin color dependent.
>>

>>Tulsa County Sheriff deputies recently arrested a 41-year-old black man
>>named Adam James for "over-obeying" them. James was following the standard
>>advice for blacks stopped by the police: he moved slowly, kept his hands
>>raised as much as possible, and repeated the deputies' commands before he
>>acted to be sure there was no misunderstanding.
>>
>>He must be drunk or on drugs the deputies concluded and took him for a blood
>>draw and then threw him in jail.
>>
>>The blood draw detected no evidence of alcohol or drugs.
>>
>>The man spent a night in jail and spent thousands of dollars on attorney fees.
>>
>>When all was said and done the Sheriff refused to apologize. The absence
>>of any objective evidence that James was intoxicated indicates that he was
>>on some drug they don't test for.
>>
>>So a black man in Tulsa County can be arrested for taking pains to be sure
>>he gives a deputy no excuse to shoot him. Instead, he is arrested for
>>alcohol/drugs and a clean blood test is just evidence he was on drugs.
>
>Now if he was female there might have been a way to get off with a warning.
>
>https://casetext.com/case/plummer-v-town-of-dickson

Oh, you mean like Sandra Bland?

[Beaver Fever]

I have a black friend.

[Alfalfa Bill]

I'm black. Well, 2/10s of 1% of my genome is sub-Saharan African. Am I your black friend?

[Alfalfa Bill]

When you're a hammer everything looks like a black thug who needs his head bashed in.

[Beaver Fever]

are we friends? I deleted Facebook again and can't remember who any of them are.

[Alfalfa Bill]

I've never been on facebook except for a dummy page. We fight here often enough that I thought we were friends.