The X Factor Needs Barry

[Brenda M]

The mentors on this year's show are pretty bad. Paula was useless and
Nicole has been even worse (when she hasn't been jetting off to
Britain -- apparently sticking around and doing her damn job isn't a
priority).

If Simon had any sense he'd fire these fools and get people on there
who know what the hell they're doing. He knows Barry knows how to
mentor new talent - he did it often enough on American Idol.

And he did it extremely well.

And Barry knows how to stage a show.

What a win-win that could be for everybody, especially the viewing
public.

Brenda

[Beanz]

I do remember Simon saying that Barry's music styling was too old, too.

[Angel]

The x factor needs to go; End Of, along with all the other reality
crap thats thrust upon us.
It is all hyped up shite. Full of ego`s with little talent. JMO.

[Brenda M]

> It is all hyped up shite. Full of ego`s with little talent. JMO.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oops, technnical glitch ...

"Little talent?" Oh, so not true. There's been quite an amazing
array of talent on these shows.

My theory is that shows like "American Idol" and "X-Factor" are taking
the place of the old variety show genre of the 60s and 70s.

Think about it - if we didn't have these reality shows, how would any
undiscovered talent even have a shot?

Besides - face it. We're stuck with them. "X-Factor" has already
been renewed for next season and I think we all know "American Idol"
isn't going anywhere.

I just think X-Factor could use some classing up, so naturally I
thought of Barry.

Brenda

[Brenda M]

> I do remember Simon saying that Barry's music styling was too old, too.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall Barry receiving pretty
high marks for the job he's done with the AI contestants. If Simon
didn't appreciate what he contributed to the show, that's news to
me.

Brenda

[Angel]

> Brenda- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Here in the UK, the x factor is becomming rather dated by all
accounts.
When you read anything about it, it seems more about the judges than
the talent.
If they cut out a lot of the hype and concentrated on atristry a bit
more. Whatever talent there is might shine through.

> Think about it - if we didn't have these reality shows, how would any
> undiscovered talent even have a shot?

If they had the talent in the first place, they would work their asses
off and prove their worth, and they would stay in your memory for
longer than 5 minutes.

> Besides - face it. We're stuck with them. "X-Factor" has already
> been renewed for next season and I think we all know "American Idol"
> isn't going anywhere.

We are only stuck with them if we buy into them.

[Brenda M]

[dcsharon]

On Dec 8, 3:47 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall Barry receiving pretty
> high marks for the job he's done with the AI contestants. If Simon
> didn't appreciate what he contributed to the show, that's news to
> me.
>

> Brenda-

I went to see Elliott Yamin after the Manilow concert here in DC. He
had nothing but high praise from working with Barry during his time on
American Idol.

And -- what a great job Barry did on the BBC2 Series "They write the
songs". The stories and history that he can relate (so well) would be
great in any setting. I wonder if Barry ever thought about being a
teacher. I'd love to see him do the master classes like Marty Panzer
does.

(DC) Sharon

[Beanz]

Barry did the first time, the second time I do recall Simon saying,
"sorry but I don't think you did it this time around."

[Beanz]

On Dec 8, 9:48 am, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

Britain --<< In all fairness Barry has been doing, and will be doing
a lot of jetting off to Britain himself.
>
> Brenda

[marvin]

>
> Think about it - if we didn't have these reality shows, how would any
> undiscovered talent even have a shot
>

> Brenda

Brenda, you are right in acknowledging that a lot of new faces, like
Clay Aiken,Kelly Clarkson,etc. became famous for being on American
Idol and other reality shows. But there are many ways for undiscovered
talent to get a shot. It is called- as Barry would say- paying your
dues.
There are other avenues for getting recognition besides reality
shows. Barry worked as a lounge pianist/singer, Michael Buble sang in
commercials, Idina Menzel was a wedding and bar mitzvah singer, Josh
Groban worked his way up without a reality show, so talent can still
be developed and found without the reality shows. Marvin

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 8, 2:55 pm, Angel <Lorrained...@aol.com> wrote:

> The x factor needs to go;  End Of, along with all the other reality
> crap thats thrust upon us.
> It is all hyped up shite. Full of ego`s with little talent. JMO.

OMG this. I am so tired of hearing about so-called "reality"
television "stars".

[Brenda M]

Marvin,

Do you honestly think someone like Josh Krajcik or Rachel Crowe would
ever have been
Taken seriously without the opportunity they're having right now?

Frankly, I think more performers are "making" it more off marketing
Than they are off "talent" and "paying their dues." I think a couple
of the names
You mentioned are terribly overrated.

Jmho.

[Brenda M]

I think it's important to make a distinction between reality stars who
are famous
For nothing and those who deserve to be discovered. I think it would
Be terrible to put Scotty McCreery in the same bucket as anyone named
Kardashian.

[Kitten Mommy]

Yeah, that's a fair point.

If I never hear another thing about anyone named "Kardashian", I will
die happy. I wish NASA would load 'em all onto a rocket and shoot 'em
into the center of the sun.

[Brenda M]

On Dec 8, 9:14 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Yeah, that's a fair point.
>
> If I never hear another thing about anyone named "Kardashian", I will
> die happy.  I wish NASA would load 'em all onto a rocket and shoot 'em
> into the center of the sun.

The sun is our mother. Our beaming beacon of hope. Our life force.
It gives us food and warmth and oxygen. Without we'd all be stone-
cold dead people popsicles.


Does it really deserve THAT?
Oh come ON.


Brenda

[Kitten Mommy]

You're right. Let's drop them in an active volcano or something.
However, I think that volcanoes demand virgin sacrifices, so that
probably won't work out very well...

[Nash's Gramma]

I just love it when this group gets all existential and weird. I
really do.
CA Sharon

[Lorrie]

I thought Simon wanted Paula ..
Not fan of this show anyway..

[Kitten Mommy]

Weird is my stock-in-trade, bb! :D

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 8, 11:31 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought Simon wanted Paula ..
> Not  fan of this show anyway..

Me neither. :p

[Brenda M]

On Dec 8, 11:32 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> CA Sharon-

Those are easily two of my favorite words in Webster's, Sharon.

It's no accident "weird" and "wired" use the same letters. :-)


Brenda

[marvin]

On Dec 8, 8:48 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:
> Marvin,
>
> Do you honestly think someone like Josh Krajcik or Rachel Crowe would
> ever have been
> Taken seriously without the opportunity they're having right now?
>
> Frankly, I think more performers are "making" it more off marketing
> Than they are off "talent" and "paying their dues." I think a couple
> of the names
> You mentioned are terribly overrated.
>
> Jmho.
>

Hi Brenda,
Of course you are right that the exposure on a prime time
television talent show will help a career, much like in the old days
when American Bandstand, Midnight Special, or Ed Sullivan would
showcase talent to millions of viewers.
But I am just stating another fact as well- some talented
artists have bypassed the national talent shows and became famous,
albeit that it took longer without the exposure of television, but
some of them needed that grounding by working in piano bars, lounges,
cruise ships to get better and having a mentor in their lives helped
as well.
I agree with Barry that sometimes the instant fame of a reality
show does not always prepare an artist well for a long career. Looking
back at Barry's career, his early years writing and singing commercial
jingles, being a pianist accompanying hopeful singers, and going to
music school all helped prepared him for his ability to come up with
well written songs when he starting making albums. Without the
grounding Barry had, he probably would not have been as good as he
became had he been discovered when he was young on a reality TV show.
Marvin

[Brenda M]

On Dec 9, 9:15 am, marvin <marv...@gmail.com> wrote:

>        I agree with Barry that sometimes the instant fame of a reality
> show does not always prepare an artist well for a long career. Looking
> back at Barry's career, his early years writing and singing commercial
> jingles, being a pianist accompanying hopeful singers, and going to
> music school all helped prepared him for his ability to come up with
> well written songs when he starting making albums. Without the
> grounding Barry had, he probably would not have been as good as he
> became had he been discovered when he was young on a reality TV show.
> Marvin

And yet do you honestly believe a 31-year-old Barry Manilow would be
as successful today as he was in 1975 when "Mandy" skyrocketed his
career? What about James Taylor? Carole King? John Denver? The
Carpenters?

You're comparing apples and oranges, Marvin, because we live in a
different world now. The singer/songwriter doesn't get nearly the
respect he/she used to. If you're a young man, someone like LA Reid
isn't likely to look at you unless you can rap out your street poetry
with your pants bagging off your butt, and if you're a young woman,
try making it if you don't look like Britney Spears.

Yes, there are exceptions. God bless Norah Jones and the few others
who've managed to break out in spite of it all, but c'mon ... last
night on X Factor was a perfect example of what's wrong with music
today. Rachel Crow has the most magnificent voice I've ever heard on
a teenager her age; she was positive, she sparkled, she was a darling
Yet she was eliminated because she lost on audience voting. The public
voted for a couple of mildly talented hood rats over a truly gifted
kid.

Does the public place a greater value on mediocrity because it's what
the recording industry has been feeding them? Or is the recording
industry merely responding to what they already know the people want?
If you can answer THAT question, I'll call you a genius.

Brenda

[Lorrie]

On Dec 8, 8:14 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hey Kitten Mommy
This was on Jimmy Kimmel Live last nite..this is not too long of a vid
But it as about the Kardashians...sorry Had to put this up here. ( as
a joke)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akw4z3ojxg

[Kitten Mommy]

As long as people keep talking about them, they'll *never go away*!

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 9, 9:49 am, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> And yet do you honestly believe a 31-year-old Barry Manilow would be
> as successful today as he was in 1975 when "Mandy" skyrocketed his
> career?

No, absolutely not. He did not have what it takes to succeed in music
today: a pretty face.

[Beanz]

On Dec 9, 10:26 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

That's not nice to say KittyMommy. It was Barry's soul all those
years ago that made him charming and very likable which made him look
pretty. He was a much different person back then, too. He seemed to
be more carefree and happier and one could feel the passion in his
music.

There are a lot of celebrities nowadays that don't look too pretty and
have a good size fanbase. Barry would still have had a shot nowadays
just like all the others. I"m thinking Mandy would have been written a
lot differently now than before. Barry would have been brought up in
a different time in the world. I'm sure the music would reflect that.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 9, 12:51 pm, Beanz <berrid...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 10:26 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 9, 9:49 am, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > And yet do you honestly believe a 31-year-old Barry Manilow would be
> > > as successful today as he was in 1975 when "Mandy" skyrocketed his
> > > career?
>
> > No, absolutely not.  He did not have what it takes to succeed in music
> > today: a pretty face.
>
> That's not nice to say KittyMommy.

The truth is often not very nice. And I didn't mean that as a
condemnation of Barry, but rather of today's music industry. The guy
has talent oozing out of his pores, but he'd never get a shot today
because he doesn't have movie star good looks.

> It was Barry's soul all those
> years ago that made him charming and very likable which made him look
> pretty.

Yes. From what I've seen of him, he has an appealing personality.
He's smart and funny and I bet he'd be loads of fun to have a few
drinks with. Given the choice between spending an evening with Barry
or with one of the good-looking idiots from one of those tedious
"reality" shows, I'd pick an evening with Barry.

> He was a much different person back then, too.  He seemed to
> be more carefree and happier and one could feel the passion in his
> music.

Maybe he got burned out. IDK.

> There are a lot of celebrities nowadays that don't look too pretty and
> have a good size fanbase.   Barry would still have had a shot nowadays
> just like all the others. I"m thinking Mandy would have been written a
> lot differently now than before.  Barry would have been brought up in
> a different time in the world.  I'm sure the music would reflect that.

Yeah, if he were 31 now, he would have grown up in a much different
world than he did in reality. He likely would have made very
different choices and probably very different music.

But of course the same could be said of all of us.

[marvin]

On Dec 9, 9:49 am, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

Hi Brenda,
I am no genius as we both know in predicting musical success
(only Clive Davis is or used to be a genius in this area and of course
Simon is- or I am sure he thinks he is) but now I know what is making
you upset.
I don't watch the show you are referring to but understand you
being charmed by the person (Rachel) with the beautiful voice but
being voted out of the show by people who- to be kind- have much less
talent to offer than her.
This happens all the time in the TV reality shows (remember the
Clay vs. Reuben battles on American Idol) that the singer with the
good voice is bypassed in favor of the singer that looks good but
sings bad.
But I don't take the voting seriously and I doubt that those that
manage talent do as well, to a certain point. Rachel got her exposure
and I am sure a talent agency or mentor will decide to manage her and
give her connections in the music business and, if she is as talented
as you believe she is, she will go far in her career.
Being a writer of the cultural arts, I talk with programmers and
promoters all the time and most of them are looking for good talent to
showcase to their audiences at venues, particularly in an unknown
artist is willing to work for less than superstar wages for the first
few years of a career.
Although the voters bear much insight into what artists promoters
at venues will book, many promoters also go beyond the quick buck and
are looking to showcase promising talent that have nothing to do with
voting on a reality show. Hopefully, Rachel's talent will get her far
in her career. Marvin

[Lorrie]

On Dec 9, 11:25 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>

I know I know
I just couldnt resist...after reading this post about them..and than
kimmel did that bit
coincidence? nah

[Beanz]

I hope that PussyCatDoll is chocking on her fruitloops this morning
and I hope she feels how she felt last night sits in the pit of her
stomach for a long, long time. Cowardly Priss.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 9, 2:45 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I know I know
> I just couldnt resist...after reading this post about them..and than
> kimmel did that bit
> coincidence? nah

Probably not. It seems that everyone's always talking about them.
How boring.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Beanz <berrid...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I hope that PussyCatDoll is chocking on her fruitloops this morning
> and I hope she feels how she felt last night sits in the pit of her
> stomach for a long, long time.  Cowardly Priss.

Wait... what?

[Lorrie]

Beanz
what happened? did she say/do something on the show?

[Beanz]

All I can say is what happened last night clearly shows a person
shouldn't be picked because they have a pretty face . All that priss
is, is a burlesque queen that got lucky with a few records. She did
the wrong thing. If she can't make a decision at a critical moment in
a show such as this, then she is no use at all. As far as I'm
concerned she threw this 14 year old kid to the wolves and she knew
she did that.

Up side to all this, Simom Cowell is going to do right by this young
one. He promised her he would and I know 100% he'll keep his word.

[Lorrie]

So she did not vote for this person?

Good to know Simon will Help the young lady.Thanks

[Brenda M]

> one.  He promised her he would and I know 100% he'll keep his word.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Pray tell, who got picked for a "pretty face?"

MARCUS?

He is so ... well .... ordinary. Why Nicole and Paula can't stop
fawning over him is totally beyond me.

Well, Josh is my last hope. If he goes off next week, I think I'll
skip the finale.

Brenda

P.S. Can you just imagine what a mentor with Barry's skills could
have done with an artist like Josh? Nicole is such a waste.

[Dawn Bushman]

To be honest, I haven't watched a television program on a regular basis
in quite a while, so I had no idea what people were talking about.
Then I saw this on CNN:

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/09/x-factor-the-most-emotional-elimination-yet/?hpt=hp_c2


I know I'm going to be unpopular with this opinion, but putting
children in this kind of a situation isn't entertainment. She may be
gifted with talent, but she's not mature enough yet to handle something
of this magnitude.

JMHO.

Dawn Bushman

[Brenda M]

On Dec 9, 8:54 pm, Dawn Bushman <dawnbushm...@cox.net> wrote:

>
> I know I'm going to be unpopular with this opinion, but putting
> children in this kind of a situation isn't entertainment.  She may be
> gifted with talent, but she's not mature enough yet to handle something
> of this magnitude.
>
> JMHO.
>
> Dawn Bushman

I think you make a valid point, Dawn.

Drew had a pretty bad time of it last week, and Rachel was worse.

And those of us who've been watching the show remember Astro's very
childish tantrum when he first ended up in the bottom two.

I wish Simon would re-work this show in the off-season to not include
such young participants. Being an adolescent is hell enough without
this kind of pressure.

Brenda

[Dawn Bushman]

I agree.

There are local talent shows with less pressure if the child/teen
really wants to compete, to give them a taste of both the good and the
bad without it turning into something like this on
national/international television.

Dawn Bushman

[Maria]

On Dec 9, 8:54 pm, Dawn Bushman <dawnbushm...@cox.net> wrote:

> I know I'm going to be unpopular with this opinion, but putting
> children in this kind of a situation isn't entertainment.  She may be
> gifted with talent, but she's not mature enough yet to handle something
> of this magnitude.
>

I haven't been constently watching this show either, Dawn. But I did
catch last week and this week's eliminations.

Rachel was just over the top. When she was telling the pussycat doll
"it's okay" I was just thinking "right"... "it's not really 'okay'".
Then, pussycat doll couldn't make a decision, Rachel was voted off and
when reality set in, she dropped to the floor and was just shy of a
tantrum. I took it that way. I don't know what people were feeding
her, but her words to her mother were something to the effect of "you
promised".... I guess it makes for great tv to watch people have
meltdowns. It turned me off. I'll take American Idol anyday. There
is so much drama on this show, it almost seems staged.

Maria

[Beanz]

I saw that, too. The "you promised". The best thing about this kid is
that she was the only one that said they wanted to win this contest.
No other contestant said that. That they were in it to win it. That
kid gave her all last night to win and she gave a perfect
performnace.

[Brenda M]

On Dec 9, 10:47 pm, Maria <robam...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I don't know what people were feeding
> her, but her words to her mother were something to the effect of "you
> promised"....  I guess it makes for great tv to watch people have
> meltdowns.  It turned me off.  I'll take American Idol anyday.  There
> is so much drama on this show, it almost seems staged.
>
> Maria

There was no way that sobbing was staged. I think the show is
designed to create extra conflict.

I'm with you. I vastly prefer American Idol, where the most
controversial thing that happens is Tyler acting like a drug-addled
goof. I love that guy!

Brenda

[bookworm]

lol lol lol at you, Brenda. Why do you keep watching this show if it
gets you riled? I have a feeling a lot in these reallity shows is
staged and this is partly why I don't watch many of them. If we want
to talk about anyone staging anything, I would put my money on Simon.
I just don't like him at all. And Paula........you get what you get
with her.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Dec 9, 8:54 pm, Dawn Bushman <dawnbushm...@cox.net> wrote:

> I know I'm going to be unpopular with this opinion, but putting
> children in this kind of a situation isn't entertainment.  She may be
> gifted with talent, but she's not mature enough yet to handle something
> of this magnitude.
>
> JMHO.

I agree.

There was a post on Rage_Free yesterday about child beauty pageants.
You can see it here: http://rage-free.livejournal.com/148315.html
(yes, I'm the Kittenmommy who commented there).