A week off the Grid; Lessons learned.
Vaughn
disconnected from the South Florida power grid. Even though we were far more
prepared than our neighbors, it was an uncomfortable experience but we learned a
bunch.
Our Equipment: Coleman Fluorescent lanterns, Cheap battery TV, 90 watt PV
system with 4 batteries and 12 V. yard lights, 3KW Onan CCK with 220# of fuel,
350 watt Honda "lunchbox" genny, 1.5 KW SPS/inverter, Power transfer panel.
What worked:
1) The PV system: The yard lights confused our neighbors who were convinced we
still had juice. I had made a portable 12V. distribution panel which was handy
for running the little TV, one Colman lantern, and for recharging the cell phone
off of the PV system.
2) The Coleman lanterns: I can't say enough good about these things. They will
run off of internal lantern batteries, "D" batteries via supplied adapters, or
12 V. via the available cigarette adapter. If you use it on low, you get
whole-room light that you can read by, and it will last on internal batteries
for 30 hours! It would run off of my PV system forever.
3) The Honda 350 watt genny: I have almost given this thing away several times
because it is too small to run the two things we want most; our 'frig and our
AC. It was the only thing that worked and it sipped fuel! On a couple of
quarts of fuel, it would run a fan in our bedroom all night. We also used it
for very limited whole-house power by running a battery charger to the PV system
and powering the transfer panel with the inverter.
What did not work:
My beloved 30-year-old Onan CCK! First, I was appalled by the fuel
consumption. It only gave me about 3 hours on a 20# tank, which implies that my
220# supply was only good for a couple days. But that mattered little because
the thing quit on the second day. It was ignition trouble, and I can only blame
myself for inadequate maintenance and not having spare points on hand. I have
known that Onan since it was just a baby, and I don't remember the points cover
ever being open.
I have ordered parts for the Onan, but I think it is time to move up to
something like a Honda EU-3000 and perhaps add a dual fuel kit.
Lessons learned:
1) Maintain your genny! Think about dual (or even triple) fuel systems. I
love LP gas because it does not go bad in storage, but you can't expect to
easily buy more after a disaster. Gasoline may be in short supply, but efforts
will be made to make it available within a very few days after a disaster and I
found myself wishing that my CCK was equipped to use it. I also found myself
looking longingly at my Natural gas meter. What size genny could I run on my
little 1/2" gas service? Again, you can't count on the NG system being up after
a disaster, but if it is, you will not run out of fuel.
2) Buy fluorescent lanterns!
3) Get a battery TV. They can be found for less than $20.00 and will run off of
internal batteries, 12 V. or 120 VAC. I don't know how they do it for that
price.
4) We have already bought a 3 cubic foot 'frig that should run off of the
Honda lunchbox.
5) Ice is not available for chest coolers after (or before) a hurricane. We
have two 5-gal water coolers and my plan was to fill them up with ice before the
event, all of the ice disappeared several day before the 'cane and none is yet
to be found. I understand FEMA grabs all of it that is available for free
distribution. "Free" distribution means that you must use your scarce gas to
drive out to the fairgrounds, and stand in line for hours to finally be handed
two bags of ice. Gotta be a better way.
6) Freeze gallon water jugs in your freezer several days before the event. It
will give you a couple days of cool and then you can drink the water. Don't
forget to freeze some milk.
Any ideas?
Vaughn
m...@privacy.net
Would you be so kind as to give an exact model number of the units?
And also tell us where you bought them?
Thanks so much!
Glad to hear you are safe
Phil
> Any ideas?
> Vaughn
Last time we were out of power I noticed the only phone that worked was an
old regular phone , all the cordless phones quit working without
electricity.
Ken
wrote:
> Last time we were out of power I noticed the only phone that
> worked was an old regular phone, all the cordless phones quit
> working without electricity.
Yes that's normal.
Harry Chickpea
Good ideas in general.
We were only out of power for a couple of days and fortunately the storm had
cooled the area enough that a fan was quite adequate for cooling at night.
Our van is set up for overnight camping and it contains a Trace 2KW inverter
with charger, marine trolling battery, dorm refrigerator and microwave, plus a
built in tv. We have a 5kw Coleman generator for extended power outages at
home.
When the storm approached, the Trace was plugged into normal power to keep the
battery topped, and a heavy duty extension cord snaked through the garage and
into the house.
When power went out, the Trace automagically switched to battery and we ran a
compact flourescent lamp and small tv off it. (Those $20 tvs from Brandsmart
are amazing for the price, but the tiny black and white picture got old fast.)
After a few hours I plugged up the (energy efficient) house refrigerator for an
hour to bump up the cold. During the storm night we powered just a small fan
while sleeping.
Once the bad weather was over, the Trace got plugged into the generator to
recharge the battery, and we fired up other items. I was disappointed that the
microwave didn't like the generator power and operated at reduced output, but
we had power enough to spare that we ran a neighbor's refrigerator, light, and
tv as well as our own. I didn't do too much else because one of my customers
had lost a hard drive and, since they had power, they were planning to reopen
the next day. I had to work networking their computers at home and rebuilding
their system in addition to fielding calls and clearing some debris.
The second day I pulled out a small 6,000 btu 120vt AC and closed off a room
for air conditioned comfort once the temps and humidity started to go back up.
It worked like a champ. If it hadn't, we could have slept in the van on hot
nights (plan B) using the van AC.
Cooking was easy on a camp stove.
Lessons learned:
I need to get a new electrical entrance. The current one doesn't have a main
breaker or transfer switch so everything had to be run via extension cords.
Whatta mess!!!
I have to get a decent muffler for the generator. These cheap generators are
very noisy and use after 10 PM pisses off the neighbors trying to sleep in the
heat. I'll have a local shop weld a small auto muffler to the proper size iron
pipe. Dunno if I'll build an enclosure or not. I liked having the genny in
the protection of the garage during the storm.
Even though the Trace has an auto-shutoff to protect the battery, I found it
best to run the van alternator when I bumped the refrigerator again a couple of
times before the weather was good enough to start the generator. A second
battery would have helped, even though the extra weight is too much for regular
use in the van.
Although the generator could run an element of the hot water heater, I stuck a
five gallon steel pail of water in the generator exhaust stream and had nicely
hot water for washing. In a northern climate, I would be figuring out how to
co-gen for heat.
I had already learned the hurricane drill from past hurricanes and had shutters
up quickly, plenty of water stored, and hit the stores and gas stations very
early at odd hours, almost totally avoiding crowds. The long lines for plywood
at the last minute are amusing.
The hyperbole of some of the weather coverage has become an art form. In every
hurricane we've had come close, at least a couple of the newspeople will report
- "Plywood is flying off the shelves at Home Depot" and "Water is flying off
the shelves at Publix." Apparently these two items must be affected earlier
than other items by hurricane winds. Perhaps Max Mayfield should station
someone at Home Depot and Publix to watch for those flying objects that portend
the arrival of a hurricane?
Clarence
"Ken" <___ke...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:msq6k05oqj2n35vka...@4ax.com...
All the telephone and computer gear here is run off a bank of batteries with a
1000 watt inverter, there are 4 110 VA per hour solar cells, and if the
batteries aren't fully charged at midnight the off grid charger tops them up.
We have a lot of small interruptions, but loosing data is potentially serious
when I have to count on deliverable files to be paid.
1234
Why do you even live there??? Am I subsidisying stupidity via my
insurance premiums? I cant wait untill that little slit of land falls
into the ocean.......
Just kidding lol I am braceing my self at present for the minus thirty
crap
1234
Mike Wilcox
1234 wrote:
> Show off ...why the heck are you running yard lights during a hurricane?
> Why do you even live there??? Am I subsidisying stupidity via my
> insurance premiums? I cant wait untill that little slit of land falls
> into the ocean.......
> Just kidding lol I am braceing my self at present for the minus thirty
> crap
>
> Vaughn wrote:
>
>>Thanks to Hurricane Francis, we recently (involuntarily) spent 7 days
>>disconnected from the South Florida power grid. Even though we were far more
>>prepared than our neighbors, it was an uncomfortable experience but we learned a
>>bunch.
>>
>>Our Equipment: Coleman Fluorescent lanterns, Cheap battery TV, 90 watt PV
>>system with 4 batteries and 12 V. yard lights, 3KW Onan CCK with 220# of fuel,
>>350 watt Honda "lunchbox" genny, 1.5 KW SPS/inverter, Power transfer panel.
>>
>>What worked:
>>1) The PV system: The yard lights confused our neighbors who were convinced we
>>still had juice. I had made a portable 12V. distribution panel which was handy
>>for running the little TV, one Colman lantern, and for recharging the cell phone
Snipped
That's what I can't figure out, how in hell can they get insurance down
there? In Ontario, Canada, if your basement floods twice in 20 years you
become high risk and have a hell of a time even getting insurance.
What are the rates like in Florida?
m...@privacy.net
>crap
Minus thirty crap? What is that?
Getting ready for cold weather?
If yes..... how and what are you doing?
Vaughn
"Mike Wilcox" <spamsp...@montypython.org> wrote in message
news:lnM0d.38466$lP4.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> That's what I can't figure out, how in hell can they get insurance down
> there? In Ontario, Canada, if your basement floods twice in 20 years you
> become high risk and have a hell of a time even getting insurance.
> What are the rates like in Florida?
Actually, the state has to operate a special coinsurance fund to help in
insurance companies in case of a major loss. We pay about $2000, but our
neighbor was recently quoted $6000 and she elected to "go bare". Before
Hurricane Andrew, we were paying less than $500.00.
>
Vaughn
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5ml6k0ttq6b9av2io...@4ax.com...
> >2) The Coleman lanterns: I can't say enough good about these things.
>
> Would you be so kind as to give an exact model number of the units?
My units are model 5355 http://flashlightsunlimited.com/delanterncamp.htm
which I bought for less than $20.00 at a "Big Lots" discount store. I bought
them out, (got several for friends and family) and I have not seen any more
there.
I don't see that specific model on the Coleman website, but this one is
similar
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5327-700&categoryid=1045 .
They have several models, including one with a remote control. I would avoid
the rechargable one.
Vaughn
m...@privacy.net
Thanks vaughn!!
Dumb question..... but instead of lanterns to light up and
area.....what abt wearing long life LED head lamps on your head and
just pointing light where you need it?
Would be more compact and mobile. No?
Vaughn
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:jma7k096qs9or2th2...@4ax.com...
To me, it would not be the same as really lighting up the room. Real light
just adds a feeling of normal living. By the way, I am going to buy or build
something like you describe (with red leds) for night flying someday.
Vaughn
john
long put a water jack on the out side a 1/2 inch gate valve at the bottom
(inlet) at the top just have something you can connect tube to and
you have warm hot or boiling water same as gold miners use to warm there
wet suits
if you can get you hands on a still to do home brew spirts distilled water
is the cleanest by a long shot
"Vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:OwH0d.579269$Gx4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Clarence
>
> Vaughn
I bought some "Trouble lights" intended for auto repair. !2 Watt lamp in a
plastic tube with a hook to hang it up, used in a tent for camping. Has a
Lighter plug on the cord and I have a 12 volt portable battery pack. One lamp
runs about five nights on a pack. At least 4 to 5 hours a night along with my
radio. I can use two at a time on the charge and since I can charge the pack
from the car on a camp out it will last a long time. Cheaper too, I paid
$11.95 each for them. I have seen them for under $10 since at "Big Lots".
danny burstein
>6) Freeze gallon water jugs in your freezer several days before the event. It
>will give you a couple days of cool and then you can drink the water. Don't
>forget to freeze some milk.
squish them about 1/3 before filling them (2/3 of the way...) and then
place them in the freezer. It''ll prevent them from bursting and will also
give you ice cold water ten minutes after you add some warmish water.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Richard
everything should be checked on a regular basis to ensure it will work as
wanted when needed (just like the battery in the smoke detector).
I really loved reading the part about the neighbours being messed up on
seeing your solar yard lights! <grin>
My Experience:
I have a similar experience (but nothing as traumatic as a hurricane)
yesterday here in the Pacific Northwest. After much procrastination ( 1.5
years! ) I finally got a charge controller for my 1400 AHr (@72 hr rate)
battery bank last week and a small 700 watt modified sine wave inverter. My
PV system consists of four 30 watt single cell type solar panels that I
obtained surplus for a song and dance. It is grossly undersized for the
battery bank but its just the start for now and originally intended it for
running my amateur radio equipment. A severe wind and rain storm hit my
home area while I was away and I had arrived home just as it was hitting.
Naturally the power went out and lasted for just over 5 hours. I had my
tradtional Coleman naptha fueled lantern to provide plenty of light and a
bit of heat (had to ventilate though to prevent CO buildup), and have
several flashlights and spare batteries -which I had just purchased a
couple days before!-. If the power was out for quite awhile, I could fall
back on my Coleman campstove and a backpacker stove for cooking a hot meal.
I also have one of those LED head-lights the cavers use and I am able to
recharge its battery. I used it for reading.
During my 2nd hour into the power failure, I plugged my fridge into the
inverter to keep the food cold and to keep the freezer part from thawing. I
still had phone (no cell or cordless for me) and contacted my ex-wife and
infant son to find out how they were doing. All they had were a couple of
candles, and two flashlights. They ended up coming over to my place to stay
and brought the food from their fridge and freezer to store in mine. *AHEM*
My ex-wife after seeing me sitting comfortably with light (a couple of CF's
plugged into the inverter) and a television while the town was blacked out
in the middle of some severe weather for several hours prompted her to
recant all the negative things she said about my surplus batteries and solar
panels -- to put it another way: she ate her own words! hahaha... however,
she did have the last laugh when it was discovered that when I went to fire
up the Coleman stove to make up some popcorn, there wasn't a lighter or a
match to be found in my apartment!!! <banging head against wall>
Fortunately, I have elderly neighbours and I went to check on them to make
sure they were ok and asked to borrow some matches and offer my fridge to
keep some of their food from going bad. (milk, etc..).
It was a good experience and it showed some of my areas of weakness. And I
believe my neighbours will be more tolerant with me moving my panels around
trying to get the optimum sun exposure.
What I learned:
1) Keep a spare lighter on hand!!
2) A Toshiba DVD player didn't work very well on a modified sine wave
inverter.
3) Cats sitting in your lap will help keep you warm.
4) That telling the solar electric naysayers "See? I told you so" really
does feel sweet, indeed!
Now I need some serious panels (75 watt jobs) and a true sine-wave inverter
of larger capacity.
Thanks for your story!
Vaughn
"Clarence" <N...@No.Com> wrote in message
news:mOP0d.18585$FP3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I bought some "Trouble lights" intended for auto repair. !2 Watt lamp in a
> plastic tube with a hook to hang it up, used in a tent for camping. Has a
> Lighter plug on the cord and I have a 12 volt portable battery pack. One lamp
> runs about five nights on a pack. At least 4 to 5 hours a night along with my
> radio. I can use two at a time on the charge and since I can charge the pack
> from the car on a camp out it will last a long time. Cheaper too, I paid
> $11.95 each for them. I have seen them for under $10 since at "Big Lots".
Good idea, exactly the type of thinking I was hoping this thread would
generate. I think I will get some of those to hang in my sheds.
Vaughn
>
>
Paul Victor Birke
Paul
Phil
"1234" <nospam...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:4143819E...@shaw.ca...
> Too funny what was your first clue? When the lights went out?
Not sure.... weather channel mentioned something about hurricane Opal
having visited the area , what do you think?
1234
Get the boots out of the closet.
Check the anti freeze in the car...stuff like that. Thats minus 30
celcius btw.
m...@privacy.net
What kind of 12v battery pack is this?
brand name and model? Where did u buy it?
thanks in advance!
Rob
Good to hear of a plan that worked.
Any fool can be uncomfortable, and there's no substitute for
experience.
Thanks for the tips, (hope me & mine never need em).
Rob
Clarence
"Clarence" <N...@No.Com> wrote in message
news:mOP0d.18585$FP3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
>
http://www.asedeals.com/jumpstarters2.html
Or
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/KK-JNC4000.html
I got mine at the Toolware house. But this is not an endorsement.
My Jumpstarter is different due to having two lighter sockets and a connection
fro a solar charger plug in. The ones they have now have only the AC charger
built in.
m...@privacy.net
>fro a solar charger plug in. The ones they have now have only the AC charger
>built in.
Does anyone still make one like yours above that has
two lighter sockets and connection for solar charger?
williamp.n.smith
>Does anyone still make one like yours above that has
>two lighter sockets and connection for solar charger?
Why not plug the solar charger into one of the lighter sockets?
m...@privacy.net
Good question
Can that be done?
Clarence
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:8qcjk053pf55nv9jn...@4ax.com...
> >m...@privacy.net wrote:
> >>Does anyone still make one like yours above that has
> >>two lighter sockets and connection for solar charger?
I've been watching for one, but haven't seen any.
> >Why not plug the solar charger into one of the lighter sockets?
>
> Good question
>
> Can that be done?
Sure, it may have been why the model I have was discontinued. They all have
cables with clamps to use for starting. You can clip additional lighter sockets
onto the clips too, just not as convenient. Just don't fall for the 10AH
model. The one I have is 60AH and cost the same. Several others are
available.
Several of my friends who camp bought the various Jumpstarters when they were
on sale locally. The only one that is NOT useful for camping is the one with a
tire inflation compressor built in. These little compressors are handy, but
are no help in a power outage. They just take up space which should be used for
battery.
m...@privacy.net
>on sale locally. The only one that is NOT useful for camping is the one with a
>tire inflation compressor built in. These little compressors are handy, but
>are no help in a power outage. They just take up space which should be used for
>battery.
OK
So you are "sold" on this method of providing portable
lighting by using a booster battery pack and 12v
florescent trouble lights?
Works out very well correct?
Clarence
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4bnjk0p1m8u8jqggt...@4ax.com...
I got it for camping, and it does work well for that. I would assume it would
provide light for other uses as well. (Never used more than two lamps.
Since I can Charge the Pack from my car, or with a Solar cell (I have 4 110VA
cells.) It works for me.
Steve Spence
ideas. here are a few:
1. Propane appliances
2. Severe conservation. It's cheaper to conserve than to generate. cf's
everywhere, and rechargeable flashlights, preferably LED.
3. diesel generator. no points, no electrical system to speak of.
"Vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:OwH0d.579269$Gx4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Thanks to Hurricane Francis, we recently (involuntarily) spent 7 days
> disconnected from the South Florida power grid. Even though we were far
more
> prepared than our neighbors, it was an uncomfortable experience but we
learned a
> bunch.
>
> Our Equipment: Coleman Fluorescent lanterns, Cheap battery TV, 90 watt PV
> system with 4 batteries and 12 V. yard lights, 3KW Onan CCK with 220# of
fuel,
> 350 watt Honda "lunchbox" genny, 1.5 KW SPS/inverter, Power transfer
panel.
>
> What worked:
> 1) The PV system: The yard lights confused our neighbors who were
convinced we
> still had juice. I had made a portable 12V. distribution panel which was
handy
> for running the little TV, one Colman lantern, and for recharging the cell
phone
> off of the PV system.
>
> 2) The Coleman lanterns: I can't say enough good about these things.
> 6) Freeze gallon water jugs in your freezer several days before the event.
It
> will give you a couple days of cool and then you can drink the water.
Don't
> forget to freeze some milk.
>
>
> Any ideas?
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
m...@privacy.net
>provide light for other uses as well. (Never used more than two lamps.
>Since I can Charge the Pack from my car, or with a Solar cell (I have 4 110VA
>cells.) It works for me.
Do those 12v car trouble lights put out a fair amount of light?
Enough to really navigate around with in a cabin or room?
m...@privacy.net
Are CFs still more efficient than say LED lights?
m...@privacy.net
m...@privacy.net
Duane C. Johnson
m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > cf's everywhere,
> Are CFs still more efficient than say LED lights?
Yes, CF are about 3 times more efficient than white LEDs.
Duane
--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
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m...@privacy.net
Sorry abt multiple postings guys!
Anthony Matonak
Yes. Many of these fluorescent trouble lights are 8 watts and up.
This would be roughly equivalent to the light output of a 32 watt
incandescent bulb. Plenty for task lighting and more than bright
enough to keep you from bumping into furniture.
Anthony
john
balast in them not very expensive to buy but then they only work on 12
volts but are brighter and flicker free
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:hldkk0ll7im15vair...@4ax.com...
m...@privacy.net
>This would be roughly equivalent to the light output of a 32 watt
>incandescent bulb. Plenty for task lighting and more than bright
>enough to keep you from bumping into furniture.
OK Anthony thanks
you've been a big help
Im off to buy a booster battery unit and some 12vdc
trouble lights
Any advice on what brand/model booster battery unit to
buy? Or are they al abt the same?
Steve Spence
they draw so little (and output so little) there are applications for them
in spot lighting and instrumentation where you don't need the omni
directional light of an incan.
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3odkk0t3ujdgupsvi...@4ax.com...
Ecnerwal
> Very much so. LED's aren't much more efficient than incandescent, but since
> they draw so little (and output so little) there are applications for them
> in spot lighting and instrumentation where you don't need the omni
> directional light of an incan.
As far as I know, the relatively low effiency only applies to the
"white" LEDs (which are sort of blue LED with a phosphor - like a
florescent light). The monochromatic LEDs are quite efficient,
especially if you hook them up intelligently (ie, use a current
regulator to drive a string of them, rather than wasting most of your
power in a current-limiting resistor, driving a single ~2V LED from a
12V source). Just hooking up 6 in series generally won't work, but 4-5
and a current regulator will work (or more for 24 or 48VDC). You can
also sneak about with driving them with pulses (from a 555) - there's
little noticable difference between a 30-40% on time and 100% on time
when the driving frequency is too fast for eyes to notice.
They may not be what you want to read by, but the super-bright red ones
make one heck of a nightlight, and adding some green or yellow makes
things quite workable for less-demading tasks.
They never (for all practical purposes) burn out, which is also an
advantage for some uses.
--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by
Steve Spence
for all LED's. Some suck less than others, but they all suck like a
incandescent. I've posted it here before.
The advantage that LED's have is that they are directional, so for task
lighting you don't need many lumens, where area lights like cf's and
incandescent are omnidirectional, and using them for task lighting wastes
90% of the light.
"Ecnerwal" <Lawren...@SOuthernVERmont.NyET> wrote in message
news:LawrenceSMITH-1F0...@news.verizon.net...
m...@privacy.net
>for all LED's. Some suck less than others, but they all suck like a
>incandescent. I've posted it here before.
>
>The advantage that LED's have is that they are directional, so for task
>lighting you don't need many lumens, where area lights like cf's and
>incandescent are omnidirectional, and using them for task lighting wastes
>90% of the light.
Good info. Thanks Steve!
I want to buy one of those battery boosters and then some 12 vdc car
trouble lights for emer use. Hence the question of fluorescent is
still the best for such use
Steve Spence
booster/compressor from BJ's that had an integral (and removable)
fluorescent.
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:p2crk0943gqn3ruo6...@4ax.com...
m...@privacy.net
>booster/compressor from BJ's that had an integral (and removable)
>fluorescent.
Interesting
Would be so kind as to post a link to it?
Also.....can you se my other post in this group titled "Best battery
booster to buy"
Thanks Steve..... and all!!!!
m...@privacy.net
>booster/compressor from BJ's that had an integral (and removable)
>fluorescent.
Is this the one?
Steve Spence
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5d7sk0pr69ia27kef...@4ax.com...