Walden University. How is it regarded?
mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Walden University
Union Institute
Nova Southeastern
Can someone advise me on how each of these are regarded in the academic
world. For example, I want to begin a body of research that I want to
continue after my PhD is finished. I want to make sure that when the
critics of my work come blasting, they can't say I went to a substandard
university.
For some reason, I think Walden,Union, and Nova are more "professional"
degrees than academic. Those who want to hold professorships would
probably do best to get their degrees from resident traditional
institutions. If I am wrong, please correct me.
One concern is that the admission requirements for the three distance
programs don't seem as stringent as UMKC. Is that good or bad?
Finally, can someone refer me to a good book on the theories of
qualitative and quanitative research methodologies.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Thomas Nixon
> For some reason, I think Walden,Union, and Nova are more "professional"
> degrees than academic. Those who want to hold professorships would
> probably do best to get their degrees from resident traditional
> institutions. If I am wrong, please correct me.
I think that it's a harder go having a Ph.D. from Walden, Union, Nova, etc. if
your goal is a professorship *unless* you have done other things that back up
your Ph.D. Do you have publications in refereed journals? What kind of work
have you done up to this point? Are you an adjunct somewhere that might like to
hire you if you had the doctorate? Are you active in professional
associations? And on and on. The few people that have wandered through here
that had a doctorate from one of those schools and were professors had
significant careers that related to their academic field prior to starting the
doctorate..
I should mention, though, that it's a tough go right now getting a professorship
in many fields regardless of where you got the doctorate. You'd better have
your ducks in a row right from the beginning.
Tom
lewchuk
University of Missouri
Nova
Union
Walden
but this is not really my area, others might have better info.
<mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8tad4e$ai4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
T.L.C. Head
> I'm looking at a Ed.D or Ph.D in Education. Considering :
>
> University of Missouri - Kansas City
> Walden University
> Union Institute
> Nova Southeastern
>
> Can someone advise me on how each of these are regarded in the academic
> world. For example, I want to begin a body of research that I want to
> continue after my PhD is finished. I want to make sure that when the
> critics of my work come blasting, they can't say I went to a substandard
> university.
This is a tough one, because I haven't really had a chance to thoroughly
evaluate how each of these schools is regarded in the academic world.
Here are my thoughts:
University of Missouri, Kansas City - Because they're a traditional
school with a DL program rather than a DL-focused school, they're
probably the "safest" of the four. (Another school along these lines
with a similar program: the University of Nebraska, Lincoln.)
Walden University, Nova Southeastern University - Nontraditional schools
with programs inspired by traditional doctorates in the field. (Another
school along these lines: Capella University.)
Union Institute - Very nontraditional program; you get to design it
yourself. Pros and cons to this approach.
I wouldn't say that any of these schools are substandard; they're all
regionally accredited on a level where they're allowed to award multiple
doctorates. But as to whether folks will *think* they're substandard: I
have no idea.
Peace,
TH
Steve Levicoff
> I'm looking at a Ed.D or Ph.D in Education. Considering :
>
> University of Missouri - Kansas City
> Walden University
> Union Institute
> Nova Southeastern
>
> Can someone advise me on how each of these are regarded in the academic
> world. For example, I want to begin a body of research that I want to
> continue after my PhD is finished. I want to make sure that when the
> critics of my work come blasting, they can't say I went to a substandard
> university.
>
> For some reason, I think Walden,Union, and Nova are more "professional"
> degrees than academic. Those who want to hold professorships would
> probably do best to get their degrees from resident traditional
> institutions. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Consider yourself corrected. Seriously, all four are good schools,
although I have always had the anecdotal impression that Walden had more
space cadets than the other three. Seriously (again), I have met many
graduates of both Union and Nova, but can only remember ever meeting one
Walden graduate over the years.
UMKC? Great school, but not exactly known for nontraditional programs.
The Ph.D. programs at all of them are just that: Ph.D. programs, which
makes them academic in nature. The only difference between Walden and
Nova is that they also offer Ed.D. (and other professional doctorate)
programs. *Those* programs are professional, but the Ph.D. programs at
all are academic - not by nature of the institution, but by nature of
the degree.
> One concern is that the admission requirements for the three distance
> programs don't seem as stringent as UMKC. Is that good or bad?
There are two reaons that you get this impression. The first is that
UMKC may have less "slots" for doctoral students than the other
schools. As a comprehensive university with limited doctoral openings,
UMKC is bound to be more stringent.
Since Union, Nova, and Walden have always had a more open admission
policy (not to mention more doctoral slots), their doors do not have to
be as closed to admission as those at UMKC.
That said, however, I have seen the admissions list at Union, and can
tell you that *many* people get turned down for admission. They key to
being admitted to a nontraditional doctoral program, as I have perceived
it, is: How well do you write?
Summary: If UMKC has, say, six doctoral slots open, they're going to
look at everything from grades to class rank to previous research. Then
they're going to add the usual ass-kissing stuff like whether you will
be a good research or graduate assistant, whether you can teach *their*
professors' courses, etc. Union/Nova/Walden don't bother with that.
Instead, they will pay more attention to your application essay to see
if you show the potential for doing solid research on your own, whether
you can express yourself (through solid written communication skills),
whether you have the potential for scholarship, and whether you have
sufficient motivation to pursue an intensive program without someone's
foot constantly up your butt (unless, of course, it's your own foot
motivating you along). HOWEVER, I have seen Union's rejection list, and
it is fairly extensive. If you're good, no doubt you'll get in. But if
you do not show the potential for solid scholarship or are a poor writer
with no clear goal of what you want to do for your doctoral work, they
*will* reject you.
Remember, there are intrinsic differences between a traditional program
(like UMKC) and a nontraditional program (like Union/Walden/Nova). In
the traditional doctorate, you do someone else's rsearch (without the
credit), teach someone else's courses (without the credit), and may even
write someone else's books (without the credit), and you have to kiss a
lot of ass along the way. In the nontraditional environment, you do
your own research, teach your own courses, write your own books, get
credit for all of them, and do the whole ball of wax in a cooperative,
supportive atmosphere rather than a wacky world of competition. And, in
my opinion, can get a *higher* quality degree in the bargain.
With that said, however, the bottom line is how good *you* are. I have
been on several doctoral committees at Union, and the learners have
ranged from very outstanding to very mediocre. However, I've seen only
two cases over the past ten years in which someone graduated that did
not, in my opinion, deserve the degree, and those statistics would
probably comport with most doctoral programs, traditional or
nontraditional. (If anything, I have probably seen more good people in
*traditional* programs not graduate, more often due to politics than
anything else.)
> Finally, can someone refer me to a good book on the theories of
> qualitative and quanitative research methodologies.
Why, soitanly (cheap imitation of Curly from the Three Stooges) . . .
Read anything by Michael Q. Patton, who is one of the leading research
scholars in the world. He teaches at the U. of Minnesota . . . and The
Union Institute. His focus is on social science research and the
various breakdown areas therein and, unlike many research writers, the
guy is actually interesting.
DISCLOSURE: If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a Union grad.
--
,-~~-.___.
/ | ' \
( ) 0
\_/-, ,----'
==== //
/ \-'~; /~~~(O)
/ __/~| / |
=( _____| (_________|
------------------------------
Steve Levicoff
levi...@ix.netcom.com
http://levicoff.tripod.com
------------------------------
Karlos Al Lacaye
(snip)
>Walden University, Nova Southeastern University - Nontraditional schools
>with programs inspired by traditional doctorates in the field. (Another
>school along these lines: Capella University.)
(snip)
Hi, there!
Excuse me, Tom, but what do mean when you say that Nova Southeastern University
is a non-traditional school? Do you mean non-residential...? Well, Nova
Southeastern University has many residential classes held on campuses in Dade
County and Broward County. I agree that Nova Southeastern University offers
non-traditional classes in the sense of night classes, weekend classes, and
outreach center classes. Nonetheless, you can take morning and day classes at
its main campus in Fort Lauderdale. And all of this is without counting its
distance education classes.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely yours,
Karlos Alberto Lacaye
caballe...@myremarq.com
mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com
Few more questions for Steve and the whole group :
1) I want to do a Ph.D. in Education. My proposed program of study will
be on "The correlation between perceptions of local law enforcement and
academic performance for adolescent, urban, African-American male
students". I want to see if African-American adolescent males have a
low view of local law enforcement (police) and whether this translates
into a low view of local school leadership and results in low grades. I
suspect it does, especially in my community where there are constant
problems between police and residents in the economically disadvantaged
areas.
With that said, my Master's degree was a M.A.T.. It was a 'teaching'
degree, not a 'research' degree. I did create a term paper on the
concept of hereditary intelligence but it did not include field study
or incorporation of qualitative and quantitative methods applied to
field study.
So, I was thinking of doing a preliminary field study using a
questionnaire sent to 4 different middle schools in the area of varying
economic populations. It would be administered to a sampling of 100
kids in each school and the results compiled into preliminary findings.
Since, I have no field study experience, would submitting this along
with my application materials increase my chances of acceptance? Or
would it be just a waste of time and effort?
2) If you had to choose between Union, Walden, and Nova and money was
not an issue - which one would you choose and why?
3) My money is tight and I really want to avoid a student loan. Are
there any ways I can get private funding for doctoral studies?
Harold Smith
In article <39F90DC7...@ix.netcom.com>,
T.L.C. Head
> >Walden University, Nova Southeastern University - Nontraditional schools
> >with programs inspired by traditional doctorates in the field. (Another
> >school along these lines: Capella University.)
>
> (snip)
>
>
> Hi, there!
>
> Excuse me, Tom, but what do mean when you say that Nova Southeastern
> University is a non-traditional school? Do you mean non-residential...?
Weeelll... Not exactly. Just that Nova isn't your run of the mill,
brick and mortar school. Its programs are designed with working
professionals specifically in mind, it offers primarily nontraditional
(DL, evening, weekend, or extension) classes, and so forth. Now that
you mention it, it probably is a good bit more traditional than Walden,
Union, or Capella, though.
Peace,
TH
Steve Levicoff
> Thank you, steve...good to see you still posting.
>
> Few more questions for Steve and the whole group :
>
> 1) I want to do a Ph.D. in Education. My proposed program of study will
> be on "The correlation between perceptions of local law enforcement and
> academic performance for adolescent, urban, African-American male
> students". I want to see if African-American adolescent males have a
> low view of local law enforcement (police) and whether this translates
> into a low view of local school leadership and results in low grades. I
> suspect it does, especially in my community where there are constant
> problems between police and residents in the economically disadvantaged
> areas.
Sounds like a plan.
> With that said, my Master's degree was a M.A.T.. It was a 'teaching'
> degree, not a 'research' degree. I did create a term paper on the
> concept of hereditary intelligence but it did not include field study
> or incorporation of qualitative and quantitative methods applied to
> field study.
(I'll limit my comments to Union, since that is the university from
which I graduated and am most familiar.)
No problem. At least at Union, you do not have to have had a
significant background in research prior to admission. One thing I
would recommend if you go the Union route is to take at least one of
your seminars in research, preferrably with the aforementioned Michael
Q. Patton, one of the deans (generically speaking) in the field. You
would also have a *very* brief overview of research in your Union
colloquium.
> So, I was thinking of doing a preliminary field study using a
> questionnaire sent to 4 different middle schools in the area of varying
> economic populations. It would be administered to a sampling of 100
> kids in each school and the results compiled into preliminary findings.
>
> Since, I have no field study experience, would submitting this along
> with my application materials increase my chances of acceptance? Or
> would it be just a waste of time and effort?
It is not necssary to submit it with your application. The main thing
they will look at (other than verifying your academic history through
transcripts) is your application essay. If you can write a decent
essay, and if you can articulate yourself as well as you did above,
you're in. (Most people are rejected on the basis of not having a firm
idea for their study or their Project Demonstrating Excellence, both of
which must be given a basic treatment in the application, or on the
basis of not being able to write a tight application essay.)
> 2) If you had to choose between Union, Walden, and Nova and money was
> not an issue - which one would you choose and why?
Keeping in mind my own predisposition toward Union based on experience,
my answer would be this: If you're looking for a Ph.D that gives you
maximum flexibility combined with maximum credibility Union is the way
to go. If you're looking for an Ed.D., Nova is the way to go. Walden
is credible, but not as well known in the field as the other two.
> 3) My money is tight and I really want to avoid a student loan. Are
> there any ways I can get private funding for doctoral studies?
Union has some moneys available, but they are usually granted on a
selective scholarship basis. I am not aware of whether one has to go
the FAF route prior to receicing a tuition grant, as one has to do at
many universities. (In other words, you do not get any of their money
unless you are getting other money.)
I certainly share your position. While I did not apply for any grants,
I paid cash-out-of-pocket for my Union tuition, which amounted to some
$700 per month throughout my program at the time (several years ago),
because I did not want to get hit with student loan repayments. I
believe that most learners *did* rely on student loans to some degree,
but that was a hassle with which I didn't want to deal later on.
lewchuk
definetly "look" into Charles Sturt University in Australia.
a) Education and criminal justice studies appear to be two focus areas for
the University.
b) CS will compare favorably with the Nova, Union, Walden triad.
c) The school tends to be competitively priced before conversion... convert
AUD to USD and it is a steal.
<mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8tc88l$phv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com
well regarded in the U.S. academic world. There's no such thing as a
free lunch. Just my opinion.
In article <39f9e...@newsa.ev1.net>,
Karlos Al Lacaye
Dear TH,
Thank you very much for your reply.
Actually, TH, if it hadn't been for this newsgroup and my interest in distance
education, I wouldn't have known that Nova offers distance degrees. Moreover, I
would have never imagined that Nova even offers doctorate degrees at a distance.
Here in South Florida, everybody considers Nova Southeastern University a
regular residential university like Florida International University, Florida
Atlantic University, St. Thomas University, etc. As a matter of fact, I don't
know where Nova got this reputation from as a non-traditional university. While
it is true that this institution offers classes or degrees non-traditionally,
this is paralleled by the traditional classes or degrees. For example, they have
the distance learning MBA and the executive MBA, but they also have the
traditional MBA. Furthermore, Nova Southestern University also offers on-campus
housing for in-coming students. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not aware of any
degree from Nova that is only offered at a distance and not residentially.
One more thing, TH, Nova Southestern University is the pioneer university in
Florida in regards to campuses abroad. Among others, they have campuses in
Central America, West Indies, Europe, and South America (I believe).
Well, I shall close here for now.
Best wishes,
Karlos Alberto Lacaye
caballe...@myremarq.com
Deirdre Saoirse Moen
: housing for in-coming students. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not aware of any
: degree from Nova that is only offered at a distance and not residentially.
I can name one: The MS in Computing Technology in Education is only offered
online.
--
_Deirdre * http://www.sfknit.org * http://www.deirdre.net
"You had thesaurus flakes for breakfast again, didn't you?"
-- Eric Williams
Tom C. Head
<caballerola...@myremarq.com.invalid> wrote:
> Actually, TH, if it hadn't been for this newsgroup and my interest in distance
> education, I wouldn't have known that Nova offers distance degrees. Moreover,
> I
> would have never imagined that Nova even offers doctorate degrees at a
> distance.
> Here in South Florida, everybody considers Nova Southeastern University a
> regular residential university like Florida International University, Florida
> Atlantic University, St. Thomas University, etc.
[Johnny Carson voice]: I did not know that.
Point taken, Karlos. And very interesting. I'll take this into
account when discussing Nova in the future.
Peace,
TH
Karlos Al Lacaye
Dear Deirdre,
Hmmm...I am beginning to understand why Nova Southeastern University is
considered mainly a non-traditional university. Still, this is a very hard buy
for me. Most of my life I have known this university as a brick-and-mortar
university. Furthermore, my youngest sister graduated from there taking
residential classes only. Still, they visit community colleges promoting their
upper division programs, so they also target traditional students. So, I am not
sure what I can draw as a conclusion here.
Best regards,
Karlos Alberto Lacaye
caballe...@myremarq.com
Karlos Al Lacaye
Hi, there!
Sure, TH. As I was telling Deirdre, in spite of all the innovations in distance
education taking place at Nova Southeastern University, all of my life I have
known this institution as a traditional "residential" university. In fact, when
I came into contact with its "online programs" (I think Bears' book or Marcie's
book), I said to myself, "Are they taking about Nova from Fort Lauderdale? Could
it be?".
Regards,
Karlos Alberto Lacaye
caballe...@myremarq.com
Steve Levicoff
> Karlos Al Lacaye wrote:
>
> > Actually, TH, if it hadn't been for this newsgroup and my interest in distance
> > education, I wouldn't have known that Nova offers distance degrees. Moreover,
> > I would have never imagined that Nova even offers doctorate degrees at a
> > distance.
> > Here in South Florida, everybody considers Nova Southeastern University a
> > regular residential university like Florida International University, Florida
> > Atlantic University, St. Thomas University, etc.
>
> [Johnny Carson voice]: I did not know that.
>
> Point taken, Karlos. And very interesting. I'll take this into
> account when discussing Nova in the future.
Postscript to Karlos' comments: Nova also has an ABA-apprroved law
school and a medical school (which, if I recall, may be osteopathic).
That's about as traditional as one can get.
lewchuk
and Walden they aren't well regarded in the US academic world either (i.e.
that does not mean their degrees are not accepted... just not that they are
not highly regarded).
Incidently, I did have a letter from from the registrar of a good RA school
stating that a CS degree is equivalent to a US RA degree... of course that
is a statement regarding acceptance and not how well it is regarded.
Regarding the free lunch... occasionally you can find the equivalent in DL,
you just need to know where to look. I would not be surprised if there are
more highly regarded PhD programs available at a better price but I am
unaware of what Universities emphasize your area of study (I am a
business/philosophy/theology guy).
<mrhdsmi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8td7mj$l0m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Ike Okonkwo
programs at Nova:
1. All undergraduate programs (about 12 fields)
2. M.S, Ph.D and Psy.D (Psychology)
3. Law
4. Dentistry
5. Medicine
6. Fisrt five years of Pharm.D program (Pharmacy)
7. M.S and Ph.D in Oceanography
8. Doctor of Optometry
9. M.S and Ph.D in Physical Therapy
10.Dispute Resolution
The following programs have both traditional and DL format:
1. Education
2. Computer and Information Sciences
3. Business fiels
I think that the comments made by Karlos is almost accurate because
Nova has more traditional programs than non-traditional programs.
Ike
In article <39FABD70...@ix.netcom.com>,
Deirdre Saoirse Moen
: Hmmm...I am beginning to understand why Nova Southeastern University is
: considered mainly a non-traditional university. Still, this is a very hard buy
: for me. Most of my life I have known this university as a brick-and-mortar
: university. Furthermore, my youngest sister graduated from there taking
: residential classes only. Still, they visit community colleges promoting their
: upper division programs, so they also target traditional students. So, I am not
: sure what I can draw as a conclusion here.
In terms of number of students in programs, it's probably mostly non-
traditional these days except for the law school. Still, it was my
knowledge of it as a brick-and-mortar school that led me to seriously
consider it for a non-traditional program.
Thomas Nixon
Nova does a great deal of advertising of their distance ed. programs. They've been
doing non-traditional for a long time. If anybody outside of Florida has heard of
them, it is likely because of those programs. They've offered an Ed.D. for a long
time for public school administrators. Seems like half (but not really) the
superintendents out there have one from Nova.
Tom
Thomas Nixon
> Not Really Steve.
Please re-read. Steve's point was that they are quite traditional.
Tom
Ike Okonkwo
Nova think of Nova as non-traditional-only university. I live in New
Jersey and when I heard of Nova for the first time, I thought that Nova
has only non-traditional programs. Most people in the academia in New
York and New Jersey also think of Nova as a DE-only university. They
are oblivious of the fact that Nova currently has more traditional
programs than non-traditional programs.
One thing to remember is that in the past, Nova had more non-
traditional programs than traditional ones, but after MERGING with
Southeastern University of Health Sciences in 1994, Nova's traditional
programs out-numbered its non-traditional programs. In my opinion, Nova
University was a non-traditional university and Nova Southeastern
University is a combination of both, even though it has more
traditional programs than non-traditional ones. Having said this, it is
also important to state that Nova's undergraduate and masters programs
had always followed the traditional format before the merger with S.E.
University of Health Sciences.
Ike
In article <39FB3772...@ix.netcom.com>,
Thomas Nixon <tcn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Karlos Al Lacaye wrote:
>
> >
> > Karlos Alberto Lacaye
> > caballe...@myremarq.com
>
> Nova does a great deal of advertising of their distance ed. programs.
They've been
> doing non-traditional for a long time. If anybody outside of
Florida has heard of
> them, it is likely because of those programs. They've offered an
Ed.D. for a long
> time for public school administrators. Seems like half (but not
really) the
> superintendents out there have one from Nova.
>
> Tom
>
>