DC-10 crash at O'Hare Intl., late 1970's
Shiro Yamanaka
>Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
It was American Airlines flight 191 that crashed in May, 1979.
Shiro
dt...@ix.netcom.com
was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
Thanks,
Dave
Luc Bauwens
fatigue because of a simplified (but not approved) maintainance procedure.
(In a way, a textbook case of bad design, though. Compounded by the fact
that the DC10 has only three redundant hydraulic systems, while the 747
has five and the L1011, I believe, four. And all three were routed
along the same path and they were cut when the engine fell off.)
Luc
--
Luc Bauwens bau...@acs.ucalgary.ca
The University of Calgary, Department of Mechanical Engineering
Phone: (403) 220 5792 Fax: (403) 282 8406
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~bauwens/
Susan Post
Pete Anselmo
>
> On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:24:12 GMT, dt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >I recall the crash of a DC-10 after takeoff from O'Hare Intl. Cause
> >was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
> >and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
> >falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
> >
> >Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
> >
>
> American Airlines. It was the day I first soloed, and came home and
> saw the reports on the news. Turned out to be maintenance procedures
> not approved by Douglas caused structural problems. Actually, the
> engine did exactly what it was designed to - came over the top of the
> wing and prematurely departed the aircraft. Unfortunately, it took
> hydraulics with it. There were several modifications made to DC10
> systems as a result of this crash, including electrical system
> auto-switching, improved hydraulic redundancy, and some others.
>
> As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
> that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
> of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?There was an out-of-focus picture of the DC10 in all the media at the
time of the accident. As I remember the aircraft was inverted and
heading down away from the photographer.
Mike Anselmo
Michael Anselmo
Shiro Yamanaka
> There's alot of pictures of planes going down. There's a picture of
>the 1960(?) Mt. Fugi accident. In fact, someone took another picture of the
>plane on the ground, minutes before it disintegrated. Even more strange,
>in the picture, you can see the smoldering wreckage of a plane that had an
>accident the day before!
I've seen both of the pictures. The one crashed near Mt. Fuji (Mar.
5th 1966) was BOAC flight 911 from Tokyo to Hong Kong, and the
wreckage on the ground was CP-402 from Hong Kong to Tokyo that crashed
the night before. More interestingly, the Japanese investigators were
able to develop the film (8mm or 16mm, I think) that was being shot by
one of the passengers on board right when the plane hit mountain wave.
By counting how many frames skipped, they could estimate the magnitude
of G that caused fatal destruction.
Shiro
john vanalstine
believe it involved a Mexican airline. That was the Cerritos, California
mid-air collision of 1986. It was a Mexicana DC-9 on approach to LAX. A
small plane clipped it and it went down in a residential area. I'm not
sure about the 1978(?) San Diego incident.
It seems to me that I've seen pictures of BOTH airliners falling from
the sky.
john vanalstine
DC-10 falling to the ground. I have also seen the picture of the 727(?)
from the San Diego mid-air collision. The 727 was upside-down if I recall
correctly.
There's alot of pictures of planes going down. There's a picture of
the 1960(?) Mt. Fugi accident. In fact, someone took another picture of the
plane on the ground, minutes before it disintegrated. Even more strange,
in the picture, you can see the smoldering wreckage of a plane that had an
accident the day before!
John
Stowewrite
(Walter Zimmerman) writes:
>I think you have two incidents confused. The Chicago crash was in 1979.
The
>picture I recall was of a California crash where a private plane and
jetliner
>collided and the rudder was sheared from the jetliner, which then took a
nose
>dive straight into the ground (and was photographed during the dive).
>
>
I'm familiar with the Chicago DC-10 crash and it seems like I have seen a
picture of it rolling over and heading toward the ground. And it's a
different one from the shot of the PSA plane that went down near San Diego
after it got clipped by a private plane. The latter photo was widely
circulated for years after the crash.
Sam Stowe
Jeff Mullowney
>I recall the crash of a DC-10 after takeoff from O'Hare Intl. Cause
>was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
>and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
>falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
>
>Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
>
>Dave
>
As stated in another post, crash was 25 May 1979, American Airlines. The
picture I remember was of the DC-10 rolled left about 90 degrees and on
its way down. I remember two shots of this scene: one from the ground, and
I think one from the air. I do know there were shots by someone on a plane
on landing: they were on TV. One showed the -10 just as it started to
impact the ground. (Somewhere, I have a slide I took off of the TV screen
of this image. Poor quality. I was just beginning to learn how to shoot.)
As I remember, this accident was one of the most photographed/videoed up to
that time. Not only were there people on the ground filming and the
passenger on the arriving airliner, but there was also another AA DC-10 on
final to the same runway. The videocam to show the passengers the landing
from the cockpit also filmed, thru the windshield, the crash as it occur-
red. The NTSB was able to take this video and enhance it, getting a frame-
by-frame record of aircraft attitude, positions of control surfaces, etc.
-Jeff
T. Duffrin
>I recall the crash of a DC-10 after takeoff from O'Hare Intl. Cause
>was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
>and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
>falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
>
>Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>
This occurred on May 25, 1979 when an American Airlines DC-10 crashed
shortly after takeoff when an engine departed the aircraft. 279
people were killed.
That famous photo and other information on major aviation accidents
can be found at http://www.skypoint.com/members/tduffrin/.
T. Duffrin
>In article <4fun16$a...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, dt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> I recall the crash of a DC-10 after takeoff from O'Hare Intl. Cause
>> was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
>> and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
>> falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
>>
>> Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
> This was United Flight 191, which I believe was a non-stop to Los
>Angeles. I can't recall the date. I also seem to remember that this was
>just prior to a holiday weekend. I was working as a technician for
>Illinois Bell Telephone at the time and remember the first inkling of
>trouble we got at the time was when we started seeing various telephone
>exchanges in the area of the crash dropping off the network due to call
>volume causing the switch to choke.
> Follow up by NTSB showed that the reason for the engine falling off was
>an improper maintenance technique being used by the airline mechanics when
>removing the engine for normal maintenance.
>
>--
>Sig? We don't need no stinkin sig!
I believe you are referring to the American Airlines DC-10 that
crashed on May 25, 1979 at Chicago O'Hare after an engine separated
from the aircraft. (279 fatalities)
That picture is available at http://www.skypoint.com/members/tduffrin
along with other aviation accident information.
fra...@networx.com.au
pictures and details of that and other accidents.
John M. Vogel
: CapnLars wrote:
: >
: > As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
: > that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
: > of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
: You are not serious -- a passenger looking out the window?
Can't be - I've seen the picture - the plane was way too far away for that.
John
jvo...@crl.com
Tim H
>Walter E. Zimmerman (we...@execpc.com) wrote:
>: CapnLars wrote:
>: > As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
>: > that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
>: > of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
>
>: You are not serious -- a passenger looking out the window?
Yes. I believe the passenger was later identified as Mel Brooks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ti...@carroll.com "Now I've become death, the destroyer of worlds."
"Cool for cats." Robert J. Oppenheimer, (mis)quoting the Bhagavad gita
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stowewrite
cuh...@cyberramp.net@mailhost.cyberramp.net (Jeff Mullowney) writes:
>As stated in another post, crash was 25 May 1979, American Airlines. The
>picture I remember was of the DC-10 rolled left about 90 degrees and on
>its way down. I remember two shots of this scene: one from the ground,
and
>I think one from the air. I do know there were shots by someone on a
plane
>on landing: they were on TV. One showed the -10 just as it started to
>impact the ground. (Somewhere, I have a slide I took off of the TV
screen
>of this image. Poor quality. I was just beginning to learn how to
shoot.)
Yep, this is the one I remember -- 90-degree bank or slightly more and
nose down. If I recall correctly, the photo was shot with some warehouses
in the foreground.
Sam Stowe
David Perl
The sheered engine severed the hydralic lines to the leading edge
slats on that wing causing them to retract. The pilots thought they
had enough air speed to go around ( and they would had the slats on
the affected side not retracted), however their margin of error was
not enough, causing the wing to stall and flip the aircraft over.
Bill Pike
--
Bill Pike
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"
Anna Warman
> In article <4g588s$5...@crl4.crl.com>, jvo...@crl.com (John M. Vogel) wrote:
> >Walter E. Zimmerman (we...@execpc.com) wrote:
> >: > and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
> >
> >: You are not serious -- a passenger looking out the window?
>
> Yes. I believe the passenger was later identified as Mel Brooks.
LOL!! High Anxiety. Remember it well.
In future, could you tag amusing posts so that I don't spray the monitor
with tea again. :)
ANNA
http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm
Visit my in-flight safety page
Don Root
> ... I have also seen the picture of the 727(?) from the San Diego mid-air
>collision. The 727 was upside down if I recall correctly.
And, jvo...@crl.com (John M. Vogel) wrote:
>Walter E. Zimmerman (we...@execpc.com) wrote:
>: CapnLars wrote:
>: >
>: > As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
>: > that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
>: > of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
>
>: You are not serious -- a passenger looking out the window?
>
>Can't be - I've seen the picture - the plane was way too far away for that.
>
>John
>jvo...@crl.com
>
I am looking at the photo of PSA Flight 182 following the mid-air collision
over San Diego on 9/25/78 (I worked the crash). The aircraft is right side
up, with the right wing on fire, banking hard to the right and going down.
(Angle of impact with the ground was somewhere near 80 degrees.) You can see
the windows of the aircraft, but there is not enough detail to see individual
pax.
As far as an upside-down A/C following a mid-air, I believe you are refering to
the AeroMexico DC-9 accident over Cerritos, CA in 1986. That A/C lost the top
half of the verticle stabilazer, and went in upside-down (I remember that L.A.
Times photo).
Don Root
CA Office of Emergency Services
d...@oes.ca.gov
Don Root
GERWOCII
about 1 mile from the crash site. I was a kid (about 10) at the time but
remember it very clearly. I lived in the flight path of one of the longer
runways so I loved aircraft even when I was young. It happened about 3 in
the afternoon. Just came home from school. It was very creepy. Kinda like
before a really bad thunderstorm. Everybody in the neighborhood was
outside, becuase you could see the smoke. Everything was really quiet.
Then the sirens started. They lasted for hours. All of the kids in the
neighborhood wanted to ride our bikes to see what happened but our parents
would not let us. We did anyway. Could not get close enough to see
anything. The airplane went down in a field between a fuel farm for O Hare
and a mobile home park, right across Touhy ave. in Des Plaines. That
field is a dog training field for the Chicago Police Dept. now. I dont
remember what it was then. It is my understanding as posted previously
that when the engine sheard of its mounts it took so many systems with it,
at such a critical time there was nothing the crew could do. I do remember
part of the voice recorder on TV the last thing you heard was the captian
say very calmly "Damm" . A small side note a few years later one of the
mechanics that worked on the aircraft later comited suicide. Oh yeah as I
write this I am looking at a picture of the crash. It is a picture of the
aircraft in a 90 degree left bank. In the fore ground is one of the
parking lots and the Amercian Airlines maintance building. This picture is
in "Chronicle of Aviation" page 760. If anybody knows where you can find
the cockpit voice recorder transcripts for this crash post it.
Thanks
john vanalstine
had a dream about a plane crash night after night. He thought the plane
in the dream was an American Airlines one. I believe he then called
American Airlines and warned them. I think he even described the type of
plane accurately and the way it fell from the sky. (His prediction
was written down by independent sources so its not like he just SAID he
dreamed it before the crash).
Just thought I'd add to the discussion. Don't flame me for bringing up
para-normal stuff.
John
Bill Gillam
<we...@execpc.com> wrote:
>CapnLars wrote:
>> As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
>> that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
>> of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
>You are not serious -- a passenger looking out the window?
I bet the families lawyers had fun with that photo in court.
Regards-
Bill
michel gammon
>>
>> >I recall the crash of a DC-10 after takeoff from O'Hare Intl. Cause
>> >was a weakened engine mounting bolt. The engine ripped off the wing,
>> >and the aircraft plunged. There was a famous (?) picture of the DC-10
>> >falling to the ground in Time Magazine.
>> >
>> >Anyone recall the year it happend and which airline?
>> >
>>
>> As far as the picture, are you sure you're not thinking of the 727
>> that crashed in California after a mid-air that was on the front cover
>> of TIME, and you could see a pax looking out the window in horror?
>There was an out-of-focus picture of the DC10 in all the media at the
>time of the accident. As I remember the aircraft was inverted and
>heading down away from the photographer.
>Mike Anselmo]
As I write this, I am looking at a picture on page 760 of a book called
"Chronicle of Aviation", captioned: "The Chicago Crash: the American
Airlines DC-10 rolls after losing an engine". The photo is very much in
focus, but the DC-10 is quite far off. The photo shows such a pronounced
roll to the left that it has appears to have passed through the
vertical.The accident was May 25 1979. The engine, upon coming off, tore
off the hydraulics, causing the slats to retract on the port wing. The
wing stalled, causing the uncontrolled roll.
Mike Gammon
hits...@gmail.com
pos...@nosuch_invalid.gov
that crash has perplexed and possibly angered me ever since
presumably the crew were treating it as just an engine failure, they
could not see the airplane
I'm not type rated but
presumably they went for V2 as opposed to V2+x
was there any real obstacle clearance requirement, other than SOP,
preventing the use of V2+x (which might have made the difference)?
Gov Shill
The undetected retraction of the leading edge slats had, however, increased stalling speed of the port wing to 159 knots. The combined result was that, as the aircraft decelerated during its 14 degree climb, the roll to the left began as the speed reduced to 159 knots (V2 + 6 knots).
The aircraft configuration was such that there would have been little or no warning of the onset of the stall. The inboard slats were extended and therefore, with the flow separation from the stall limited to the outboard segment of the port wing, it would not be felt on the port tailplane. For this reason there would have been little or no buffet in the elevator controls... Because the roll to the left began at V2 + 6 knots and the pilots knew that V2 was well above the aircraft's stalling speed in the takeoff configuration, they probably did not suspect that the roll indicated a stall.
pos...@nosuch_invalid.gov
stall, certainly not at low altitude (having flashes of the Afghanistan
'74 here). Maybe the 10 is different, I was assuming that it would climb
out at v2+15+ but if an engine failed would be required to come back to
v2. If I remember correctly this kind of reduction was to assure
engine-out obstacle clearance in IMC. The accident airplane was not in
IMC and I'm just guessing (only been to Chicago a few times) that there
was no obstacle clearance problem. If the normal climb for the 10 would
have been let's say v2+15+ and neither IMC nor obstacle clearance then
SOP in the event of a failure should have encouraged maintaining the
last speed and neither any attitude or any lesser speed. My point being
that (again I'm not 10 typed) the airplane may have been more than
capable of surviving had it not been for (likely mandatory) procedure.
Government Shill #2
the information of the configuration of the left wing, caused the crash.
Shill #2
--
Them™
Pay Section
Disinformation Directorate
Ministry of Information
Antipodean Division