Dish Network Erased all DVR
gatorat9...@yahoo.com
programs, including several pay-per-view movies and some programs I
have not yet viewed or seen all the way through. I have estimated that
this to be over $100 of programming. I expect a very generous refund
from Dish Network, but doubt one will be forthcoming.
If anyone knows of a class action lawsuit concerning this fraud, please
post that information here.
(I am being very serious--I paid for several pay-per-view movies and
they erased those. This is just like having them charge me for a
pay-per-view, but not letting me see it.)
jasper
sounds like your hd failed a diagnostic, so it got formatted.. if i were
you i would clam down and see how reliable it is, you may be in need of a
new machine soon, and if you have already gotten nasty about it, the csr
isnt going to be to quick to wave any fees invlived in a exchange..
just my 2 cents, i know it sucks, but it wasnt them pressing a button, and
SHIT HAPPENS
<gatorat9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149792514.6...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
gatorat9...@yahoo.com
turned it off. This morning, it recorded two episodes of Magnum PI like
it does every day. It also had a message from Dish Network stored on my
unit.
Other users have been reporting the same thing.
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> I have a DVR 510. Last night, Dish Network erased all my saved
> programs, including several pay-per-view movies and some programs I
> have not yet viewed or seen all the way through. I have estimated that
> this to be over $100 of programming. I expect a very generous refund
> from Dish Network, but doubt one will be forthcoming.
>
Don't you own that 510? Even so, you know very well how limitted liablity
applies to cases like that.
> If anyone knows of a class action lawsuit concerning this fraud, please
> post that information here.
>
You are nuts ... and crazy too :-)
> (I am being very serious--I paid for several pay-per-view movies and
> they erased those. This is just like having them charge me for a
> pay-per-view, but not letting me see it.)
>
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Betts
Last night they tried to download new software on my 510. I refused to
install it because of what I've read about it. Perhaps your's is set on
automatic updates?
Little Sir Echo
On 8-Jun-2006, gatorat9...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a DVR 510. Last night, Dish Network erased all my saved
> programs
Friend, I VERY SERIOUSLY DOUBT that Dish Netowrk erased all your saved
programs.
I DO NOT DOUBT that you may have experienced a loss and have jumped to
the conclusion that DISH is responsible.
So it might be more ACCURATE to say that all your saved programs
disappeared last night and you do not know what happened ...PERIOD.
The tendency to blame DISH for everything (which seems to be so common
with certain posters here) only makes it more difficult to deal with the
real issues.
SaltiDawg
> ...
> So it might be more ACCURATE to say that all your saved programs
> disappeared last night and you do not know what happened ...PERIOD.
>
> The tendency to blame DISH for everything (which seems to be so common
> with certain posters here) only makes it more difficult to deal with the
> real issues.
Right on!
Patrick Martin
impressed with the reliability of digital recordings anyway. I have
finally bought a Pioneer stand alone DVD recorder after having issues
with my old Lite On. I have been in discussions on other groups about
home burned DVDs, putting TV programs on Hard Drives, compared to old
fashioned VHS & BETA tape. Sure the video quality is better on DVD or on
a Hard Drive. But between the glitches, lost hard drives, and other
issues, for pure protection on anything I want to keep, I dub it over to
VHS tape or make a copy at the same time the DVD is burning it. I just
do not trust digital recordings. Look at all of the problems there are
with computers. Anything digital seems to have issues. A lot more than
old analog tape. For the record, I use a lot of stuff in the digital
world, be it DVB, 4DTV, Dish, etc. It is great when it works right.
Fantastic. But when it doesn't, you are out of luck. Like yesterday, I
set my Pioneer 322s to record afternoon TV shows. When I got home, I
went to finalize the disc and guess what? It would not finalize. A
glitch in the disc somewhere and the disc stuck in the middle of it.
Well with video tape, if that would have happened, you still would have
had the first part of the tape to play. But since the DVD stuck, it
would not finalize, so the whole afternoon was a loss. No biggie as they
aren't that important, but that is one example.
So it does not surprise me I hear all of these stories about losing hard
drives on DVRs, 100 hours worth or shows, and the like. Probably not
Dish's fault, but in the digital world, it could be anything. In the
digital World, convenience comes at a price.
Patrick
jasper
<gatorat9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149793163.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Sharkman BMW
problems than your missing dvr files!
gatorat9...@yahoo.com
years. I was up late last night and realized a movie I had set to
record was subtitled and wasn't in the mood to read subtitles. So I
opened the screen showing my recordings--they were all there--I then
went to timers and deleted the timer in question. When I returned to
the recordings, I briefly considered watching the end of movie I hadn't
finished seeing, but figured my wife would want to watch it so just
closed the menu and shut down the unit.
This morning, I turned on the unit and opened the list of recordings
and the only items there were those recorded that morning and a 3
minute message from Dish Network telling about the new, and rather
annoying, feature with VOD. ALL the other movies were erased.
Between 2 am and noon, nobody touched the unit, turned it on or turned
it off. They did not turn the TV or DVD player on or off. The only
entity to manipulate that DVR system was Dish Network. Based on this
happening with other people (all of whom also reported that the 3
minute message was on the list of recorded programs) makes the logical
connection that something Dish Network did caused the system reformat
the hard drive.
Clark W. Griswold, Jr.
>what, pray tell did this message stored on your computer say??
He didn't say computer, he said unit (ie DVR). It was a 3 minute video on how
wonderful this movie on demand feature was. It refered to the 508/510 as a
Dishplayer. The model wasn't that particularly good looking either.
gatorat9...@yahoo.com
And so were the people that complained about what SONY was doing to
their computers.
The Dish Network software screwed up, pure and simple. It likely
detected a problem and reformatted the hard drive instead of putting
further recording on hold and prompting me the next time I turned on
the system. This is a design and implementation failure.
Since some of the items I lost were PPV movies which I, or other family
members, had not yet finished viewing, I believe I am owed a refund for
them.
(Yes, I regret losing the non-PPV content, especially since some of the
movies were relatively rare, but not so great I want to purchase them
on DVD, but it's losing the paid content and the stupid changes they
made that make me so steaming mad. Worse, it's now too late to turn off
automatic updates and have it go back to the older software. Needless
to say, it's likely I'll be moving within the next several months and
when I do, I'm not going to bother with Dish Network.)
gatorat9...@yahoo.com
programming (I did this on purpose.)
As I stated elsewhere, I suspect the software found a problem and
applied an overzealous solution. (I also know this happened to other
people and based on my experience working for software and hardware
companies, suspect that the highest level of management at Dish Network
is furious, but whether they admit culpability publicly or at least
attempt to molify those of us affected remains unknown.)
JimK wrote:
> Ok here on 510
>
> You sure your hd was not filled up, I had 30 mins on record time left
> on harddrive and recordered a 60 min show and i lost 50% of my old
> recordings, mostly the movies
Chevrolet
Cheers!
<gatorat9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149792514.6...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Chevrolet
Are you from the Geratol Crowd?
<gatorat9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149793163.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Patrick Martin
In my case, I would have to buy 4 different DVRs. One for DVB, one for
4DTV, one for Star Choice, and another for Dish. Too much to deal with.
My system is complicated enough. :)
Anyway, the media I buy is TDK. I use TDK blanks for all of my
recording. I do run into a bad one every 50 or so. It does happen. More
often than I ever ran into bad VHS or BETA tapes. But again, I do like
the quality of DVD recording. But I don't trust it. The jury is still
out on how long home burned DVDs will last too.
Patrick
Thomas T. Veldhouse
I watched Magnum PI as a kid and liked it too. I am only 34. Hardly a
"Geratol" show, now is it. TAKE IT BACK!! :-)
BTW ... I used to watch A-Team and Simon-and-Simon too!
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:57 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
> wrote:
>
>>I don't have a DVR, nor do I want one. To be totally honest, I am not
>>impressed with the reliability of digital recordings anyway. I have
>
> skipping the commericals is reason enough.
>
>
Time shifting is the real reason that people love DVRs. Once a person adapts
to using a DVR ... going back to regular TV can cause a for of withdrawl
accomponied by physical distress and bouts of rage! It is not a good idea to
take a DVR away from a person that has become accustomed to it.
Thomas T. Veldhouse
The issue isn't the number of DVRs required, it is the number of feeds that
you get. You sound rather ... obsessive :-)
Bill R
>
>
> skipping the commericals is reason enough.
>
We have been trying to get that point across to Patrick for years.
Apparently, he likes to live in the past with his big dishes and his
WebTV box.
--
Bill R.
Remove nospam_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail
Seth
news:4489870c$1...@news.iglou.com...
> JimK wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:57 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't have a DVR, nor do I want one.
>>
>> You don't know what your missing. The DVR, the time you save just
>> skipping the commericals is reason enough.
>
> We have been trying to get that point across to Patrick for years.
> Apparently, he likes to live in the past with his big dishes and his WebTV
> box.
Don't forget his refusal to quote the message or points he is responding to.
That's why he's in my killfile. Too annoying trying to read his posts. If
he doesn't care about what he says enough to post it properly, I figure why
should I be bothered to read it.
SaltiDawg
> Jim,
>
> In my case, I would have to buy 4 different DVRs. One for DVB, one for
> 4DTV, one for Star Choice, and another for Dish. Too much to deal with.
Why would you need all four DVR's? Get one and see if you don't come to
think it has completely changed the way you have cone to enjoy TV.
SaltiDawg
> ...
>
> As I stated elsewhere, I suspect the software found a problem and
> applied an overzealous solution.
You also said, " ... makes the logical connection that something Dish
Network did caused the system reformat the hard drive."
Nonsense to the latter, speculative to the first. lol
rz
1. We will erase customer's drive on a random basis.
Whack job!
BTW, my previous receiver, a 921, has done this to me at least once.
I saw it happen, I tried to play a recorded movie. It hung, rebooted,
and wiped the disk clean.
-
Robert
Whit
> He didn't say computer, he said unit (ie DVR). It was a 3 minute video on how
> wonderful this movie on demand feature was. It refered to the 508/510 as a
> Dishplayer. The model wasn't that particularly good looking either.
Yes, Dish did a software update that added their Movies-on-Demand
"feature" to the 508/510 DVRs a few days ago, and it apparently works by
stealing recording space from the user, even bumping user-recorded shows
off the system so that it can instead store four movies at a time which
you can only see by paying $5 a pop. So far I'm just leaving my 508 on
all the time, to protect my recordings - but I'm trying to find out the
best method to block this thief from entering my system in the long term.
This was a very underhanded, clumsy, even evil thing done by an outfit
that takes such public pride in getting higher ratings from its users
than the competition. I guess when you're going up against Comcast,
there's a lot of leeway before people say you're worse.
Dish could easily have installed this feature, but left it off unless
the user chooses to enable it. Adding an on/off toggle on the setup
menus would have been so trivial. Hopefully they'll wake up and do it,
now that they've alienated thousands of their customers.
Whit
> This morning, I turned on the unit and opened the list of recordings
> and the only items there were those recorded that morning and a 3
> minute message from Dish Network telling about the new, and rather
> annoying, feature with VOD. ALL the other movies were erased.
Quite right. Dish had the Movies-on-Demand update of their software
queued up for the 508/510, and those of us who either had our units set
up to download it automatically, or who okayed the software update
(after no warning that it could be destructive) had our units set up to
download four movies overnight that would replace user-saved shows just
as if we'd chosen to record them (but of course they're only viewable
for $5 a piece).
Now, in my case I noticed the next day that the 3-minute clip was there,
and the menu for movies, but nothing erased yet, and the movies not on
the disk. But that's because the unit was recording a show when I'd gone
to bed so of necessity I'd left it on. If you've downloaded the software
update, and you turn your unit off overnight (or perhaps even during the
daytime?) it will fill a big chunk of the user space on your HD with the
four movies they want to see you this week.
On the more recent DVRs, there's a separate partition set up for this,
so it's not theft from the user's space. But damn it I paid cash for
this 508 (it wasn't under a freebie deal or lease), and I chose it based
on its recording capacity. So taking that capacity from me is theft. I
wrote Echostar two days ago requesting instructions on fixing this
problem, but so far no reply.
Betts
They have a line set up for it. I called Dish for some programming changes a
few minutes ago and one of the first options was "if you are calling about
recent changes to your DVR", press #. :)
Whit
> You sure your hd was not filled up, I had 30 mins on record time left
> on harddrive and recordered a 60 min show and i lost 50% of my old
> recordings, mostly the movies
Yeah, that could explain his experience. The Movies-on-Demand thing
stuck another 6 to 8 hours of stuff on his drive (the four movies they
want to sell), and the glitch that caused you to loose more than simply
the oldest stuff happened on his system too - that is, there's an
outstanding bug that sometimes kicks in when you record over the
capacity, and the Dish "upgrade" will cause many systems to record over
the capacity with no input from the user, since it causes there to
always be four movies "hidden" on the drive just in case you have $5 and
want to "demand" one of them.
The people defending Dish on this one are just ignorant.
John Lodge
Clark,
Complete NONSENSE, Dish reserved Hard Drive space on the Hard Drives in
all but a couple of DVR's (namely 721, and 501) LONG AGO. This means the
recording space subscribers can use HAS NOT CHANGED ONE BIT.
John
Whit
> in all but a couple of DVR's (namely 721, and 501) LONG AGO. This means
> the recording space subscribers can use HAS NOT CHANGED ONE BIT.
If this is the case, why are there multiple reports of people losing
hours of saved programs from their 508s at soon after accepting (whether
automatically or manually) this upgrade?
You're right that some of the more recent DVRs had HD space set aside in
anticipation of Movies-on-Demand. That's described in their manuals. The
508's manual doesn't mention that, that I've found. And multiple people
are losing saved programs from this upgrade - either some hours worth,
or in a few cases everything (which seems to be from a bug that
sometimes kicks in when the drive goes over the limit and needs to make
space by deleting old stuff).
It looks like for the 508/510s the movies are being written into the
user partition, but with ownership that blocks the user from viewing
them except by paying, or erasing them at all. There is not a separate
partition reserved. But this is just deduction from the information
available, and the experiences with lost content being reported by
multiple users.
John, if you have real information, rather than just your personal wild
guess, please share the references. Otherwise you aren't contributing to
the discussion or the solution.
John Lodge
Whit,
There have been MANY cases of a software upgrade causing Dish's DVR's
to lose some if not ALL Recorded content. This happened to me on my
first Dish 501 DVR shortly after it was released.
Don't equate some losing content with Dish substracting Hard Drive space.
John
Clark W. Griswold, Jr.
>store four movies at a time which
>you can only see by paying $5 a pop.
Furthermore, unlike the PPV movies, you can't record the VOD movies on the
internal HD. All you are buying is a 24 hour view window.
Its not difficult to see Echostar & the studios wanting to switch over to this
for all PPV movies...
spam@today.com Deke
> > On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:57 -0700, mwd...@webtv.net (Patrick Martin)
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't have a DVR, nor do I want one.
> >
> >
> > You don't know what your missing. The DVR, the time you save just
> > skipping the commericals is reason enough.
> >
>
> We have been trying to get that point across to Patrick for years.
> Apparently, he likes to live in the past with his big dishes and his
> WebTV box.
> --
> Bill R.
>
Do NOT badmouth C-Band. Charlie has done his best to destroy the industry
that got DN started.
And while I have DN, a 508, and a 60" TV, the picture quality of C-Band
digital is awesome, analog is even better (no artifacts whatsoever). And
programming is
about 1/3 less than DN. AT60 on DN is around $420 a year.
The Absolute Digital package of 50 channels from NPS is
$250 a year, not to mention all the free stuff. And the channels DN doesnt
offer. So dont accuse someone who can appreciate a bargain, and recognizes
superb picture quality, of living in the past. And lets not even mention
that huge antenna farm
of C-Band dishes that DN uses to get its programming.
Deke
Sharkman BMW
Patrick Martin
I get over 2,000 channels worldwide with my system with Dish, Star
Choice, DVB, 4DTV, analog, and VC2. I like a variety. I have had my BUD
since 1985. Several channels I get on DVB or 4DTV I wish Dish would have
added like B Movie Network and American Life. I may watch a program on
the History Channel on Dish, follow it up with a sitcom on American Life
and maybe the news from BBC World on Star Choice, or even Russia Today
on DVB. My viewing habits are a bit different than the average person. I
watch very little Network fare except for news. Like BBC World or Russia
Today, there are no commercials anyway.
Patrick
Patrick Martin
You don't know what you are missing. It is a blast to watch the news
from Alaska, switch over to catch the Weather from Europe, or a
documentry from Russia or Germany. Lots of old TV shows avaible
worldwide on a BUD. You get a lot more for your money with one. Most of
what I get is FTA. Amazing stuff. The old analog BUD is not what we have
today. Hundreds and hundreds of FTA channels from anywhere. I would not
trade my system for 1,000 Dish systems. Dish does not offer me
everything I want. All of these channels I have heard people moan and
groan about for years like American Life, B Movie Net, BBC World, etc
are all available out there with a BUD. I don't have to wait for Charlie
to add something. I get it direct in most cases. HDTV is FTA in many
cases with a BUD too, but I have not moved to an HD receiver as yet.
Also when talking about Picture Quality, a BUD beats Dish or Direct all
to pieces. You can't even compare the two.Direct & Dish are great for
what they offer, but there is another whole World out there that many
are missing.
Patrick
Patrick Martin
I don't refuse to post it, I cannot with Web TV. There is no way to do
it. I would if I could.
Patrick
Patrick Martin
with 4 different video formats, so I would need a DVR receiver for all.
Patrick
Patrick Martin
What type of BUD system do you have? You are right. A BUD beats Dish or
Direct in PQ. No doubt about it.
Patrick
The Ghost of General Lee
wrote:
>Seth,
1. Since Seth said you were in his killfile, he won't see your posts.
2. http://members.lycos.co.uk/netmiser/webtv.htm
spam@today.com Deke
--
"A politician's neck should always have a noose around it.
It keeps him upright."
-Robert Heinlein
"Patrick Martin" <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8431-448...@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net...
Seth
news:4gsk829av84puo7do...@4ax.com...
It's been pointed out many times that one can quote on WebTV and yet he
still insists there isn't. That's why I gave up.
Bill R
Patrick,
You keep saying that but in other news groups I see people with web tv
addresses that quote posts all the time.
Bill R
> Bill,
>
> You don't know what you are missing. It is a blast to watch the news
> from Alaska, switch over to catch the Weather from Europe, or a
> documentry from Russia or Germany. Lots of old TV shows avaible
> worldwide on a BUD.
>
> Patrick
>
If that is what you enjoy watching, then that is fine but NOTHING you
mentioned is of interest to me. It really sounds like you don't have
much of a life if you spend your time watching weather from Europe. I
would rather spend that time with my grand kids and family (NOT watching
TV).
I had "C" band back in the 80s and I don't miss the big dish or the long
wait of tuning channels on other satellites (while the dish moves). You
(and Deke) can defend "C" band all you want but for many of us it is a
technology that is way past its prime (for home use).
Steve Jenkins
watching his 4 satellite systems, recording to DVD and recording to
video tapes because he doesn't trust digital recording.
Little Sir Echo
On 9-Jun-2006, "Deke" <no sp...@today.com> wrote:
> Do NOT badmouth C-Band. Charlie has done his best to destroy the
> industry that got DN started.
> And while I have DN, a 508, and a 60" TV, the picture quality of
> C-Band digital is awesome, analog is even better (no artifacts
> whatsoever).
> And programming is about 1/3 less than DN. AT60 on DN is around $420
> a year.
> The Absolute Digital package of 50 channels from NPS is $250 a year,
> not to mention all the free stuff.
> And the channels DN doesnt offer. So dont accuse someone who can
> appreciate a bargain, and recognizes superb picture quality, of living
> in the past.
> And lets not even mention that huge antenna farm of C-Band dishes that
> DN uses to get its programming.
Deke,
I have no doubt that C-Band is wonderful for you and Patrick and many
other folks.
However, as far as I know, no one is giving away receivers and 10'
dishes including free installation.
But even if someone was doing that my condo association would never
permit installation of a C-Band system.
Furthermore, there are many other situations where a C-Band system
simply cannot be installed.
In an ideal world where cost, size, restrictions, etc. were irrelevant,
all of us who care about picture quality would probably have C-Band.
Unfortunately, we do not live in a world that is even close to ideal!
spam@today.com Deke
Whit
> There have been MANY cases of a software upgrade causing Dish's
> DVR's to lose some if not ALL Recorded content. This happened to me on
> my first Dish 501 DVR shortly after it was released.
Curious. This has never happened to me over a few years of upgrades, but
I'll accept your report on that.
> Don't equate some losing content with Dish substracting Hard Drive
> space.
Well, I'd like to see the real answers on this. Obviously you lean
towards trusting Echostar, and I'm more suspicious. But the open
question is:
- Did the 508s come from the factory with a spare partition in
anticipation of VoD? (I understand now that the 510s did.)
And:
- If not, does the VoD update work by either repartitioning (there are
Linux utilities to do that, but they are known to sometimes lose files),
or by storing the movies in the user's space, but invisible to the user
because of ownership permissions?
Also:
- If the movies do go into an otherwise unused partition on the 508s,
rather than subtracting from the user's space, why hasn't Echostar added
this to their FAQ on VoD?
If anyone has real info on the first question in particular, I'd like to
know, so I can stop worrying if appropriate and stop just leaving the
damn thing turned on. I've liked Dish so far (although I'd like them
less if I had something beyond the 508 that required those "DVR fees"
some of you are seeing). When the choices are Adelphia or DirectMurdoch,
liking Dish better ain't so difficult.
Even if anyone can confirm they've see the 508 upgrade come in, and had
their recording space fairly full, and didn't loose anything, that would
be greatly reassuring.
Whit
Little Sir Echo
On 11-Jun-2006, Whit <nos...@transpect.com> wrote:
> Even if anyone can confirm they've see the 508 upgrade come in, and
> had their recording space fairly full, and didn't loose anything, that
> would be greatly reassuring.
Whit, my 508 hard drive is about half full and lost nothing when the VOD
system was downloaded to it.
JOHN D
14% space left the last time I looked. It went completely empty. I figured
it got full and erased itself. It's the first time it got so full. Did this
happen to a others DVR's at the same time?
John
Curtis CCR
gatorat9...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > You are nuts ... and crazy too :-)
>
> And so were the people that complained about what SONY was doing to
> their computers.
>
> The Dish Network software screwed up, pure and simple. It likely
> detected a problem and reformatted the hard drive instead of putting
> further recording on hold and prompting me the next time I turned on
> the system. This is a design and implementation failure.
It appears to be a case of "This is the only way to push this out.
Let's just get it over with and put up with the complaints." While
they may have shipped newer DVRs with reserved disc space already set
up and partioned off, some of the "old ones" like my 508 had to have a
little formatting to set up the reserved space. I lost about 15 hours
of recorded programming to this Dish Network stunt. However I still
have the same recording capacity I had before.
>
> Since some of the items I lost were PPV movies which I, or other family
> members, had not yet finished viewing, I believe I am owed a refund for
> them.
Lots of luck with your class action idea. Dish covered themselves in
their residential service agreement. That's the contract you agree to
that say you are responsible for everything, including paying whatever
they say you owe, and they are responsible for nothing except cashing
your check.
>From the service agreement...
"4 EQUIPMENT...
"C. DISH Network reserves the rights to alter software, features and/or
functionality in your DISH Network receivers, provide data and content
to Personal Video Recorder/Digital Video Recorder ("PVR/DVR")
products, store data and content on the hard drives of PVR/DVR
products, and send electronic counter-measures to your DISH Network
receivers, through periodic downloads. DISH Network will use
commercially reasonable efforts to schedule these downloads to minimize
interference with or interruption to your Services, but shall have no
liability to you for any interruptions in Services arising out of or
related to such downloads. "
And paragraph D is nice little nugget. The last half of this paragraph
is the most fun.
" D. DISH Network's PVR/DVR Products allow you to record programming in
digital format. Total recording time varies depending on your receiver
and the nature of the programs being recorded. DISH Network does not
guarantee access to or recording of any particular programming. Most
programming is the copyrighted material of the third party that
supplies it, is protected by copyright and other applicable laws, and
may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten, or
redistributed without the written permission of the third party that
supplied it except as permitted by the "fair use" provisions of the
U.S. copyright laws. DISH Network may, in its sole discretion, add,
change or remove features of its PVR/DVR Products and, upon notice to
you, introduce or change fees for the use of PVR/DVR Product features.
DISH Network will notify you of any change that is within its
reasonable control. Unless otherwise specified in the terms and
conditions of the customer agreement(s) applicable to the promotion(s)
pursuant to which you are receiving Services and/or Equipment, we will
charge you a monthly DISH Network DVR service fee ("DISH Network DVR
Service Fee") for each PVR/DVR receiver activated on your account."
> (Yes, I regret losing the non-PPV content, especially since some of the
> movies were relatively rare, but not so great I want to purchase them
> on DVD, but it's losing the paid content and the stupid changes they
> made that make me so steaming mad. Worse, it's now too late to turn off
> automatic updates and have it go back to the older software. Needless
> to say, it's likely I'll be moving within the next several months and
> when I do, I'm not going to bother with Dish Network.)
>
>
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> > gatorat9...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > I have a DVR 510. Last night, Dish Network erased all my saved
> > > programs, including several pay-per-view movies and some programs I
> > > have not yet viewed or seen all the way through. I have estimated that
> > > this to be over $100 of programming. I expect a very generous refund
> > > from Dish Network, but doubt one will be forthcoming.
> > >
> >
> > Don't you own that 510? Even so, you know very well how limitted liablity
> > applies to cases like that.
> >
> > > If anyone knows of a class action lawsuit concerning this fraud, please
> > > post that information here.
> > >
> >
> > You are nuts ... and crazy too :-)
> >
> > > (I am being very serious--I paid for several pay-per-view movies and
> > > they erased those. This is just like having them charge me for a
> > > pay-per-view, but not letting me see it.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas T. Veldhouse
> > Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Since some of the items I lost were PPV movies which I, or other family
> members, had not yet finished viewing, I believe I am owed a refund for
> them.
>
Perhaps. Call them and ask for the refund (or ask them to hit your receiver
with free access to these same movies). If they refuse and you *really* feel
you are owed a refund, file a small claim suit against them. They will almost
certainly settle up ... and don't forget to ask for filing fees back.
> (Yes, I regret losing the non-PPV content, especially since some of the
> movies were relatively rare, but not so great I want to purchase them
> on DVD, but it's losing the paid content and the stupid changes they
> made that make me so steaming mad. Worse, it's now too late to turn off
> automatic updates and have it go back to the older software. Needless
> to say, it's likely I'll be moving within the next several months and
> when I do, I'm not going to bother with Dish Network.)
>
See above ... do something about it.
Little Sir Echo
On 14-Jun-2006, "Curtis CCR" <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> While they may have shipped newer DVRs with reserved disc space
> already set up and partioned off, some of the "old ones" like my 508
> had to have a little formatting to set up the reserved space. I lost
> about 15 hours of recorded programming to this Dish Network stunt.
> However I still have the same recording capacity I had before.
Interesting!
The first sentence remains pure speculation (although I believe DISH
should tell us exactly what happened) as it does not explain why some of
us with a 508 did not experience any problems with the VOD download.
The second sentence may be accurate insofar as the loss of recordings,
but to attribute it to a "stunt" by DISH is not. In fact, the use of the
word "stunt" reveals an attitude that may make it difficult to find out
exactly what did happen.
So far it has not been proven that DISH deliberately did anything that
caused the loss.
It is worth noting that some of the people asserting such a loss seem to
have had a variety of problems with DISH while others of us have
not--even in this case. I have an early 508 and the VOD download did not
affect my recorded programs.
My point is simply this: before jumping to a conclusion that DISH with
evil intent erased recordings in order to download VOD, it might be a
good idea to find out exactly what took place and why.
Curtis CCR
Little Sir Echo wrote:
> On 14-Jun-2006, "Curtis CCR" <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > While they may have shipped newer DVRs with reserved disc space
> > already set up and partioned off, some of the "old ones" like my 508
> > had to have a little formatting to set up the reserved space. I lost
> > about 15 hours of recorded programming to this Dish Network stunt.
> > However I still have the same recording capacity I had before.
>
> Interesting!
>
> The first sentence remains pure speculation (although I believe DISH
> should tell us exactly what happened) as it does not explain why some of
> us with a 508 did not experience any problems with the VOD download.
You snipped my first sentence where I said it appears that they just
did it. They know what happened - And I think it is quite believable
that they expected it. Acceptable collateral damage - it negatively
impacted a minority of customers so it was worth the inconvenience.
They all but said that to me in thier reply to my complaint and
inquiry. "We are sorry.... however we reserve the right... per our
residential agreement... blah blah blah... When changes negatively
impact and majority of customers we will re-evalulate our policy..."
In other words, it didn't piss off enough people for them to worry
about it.
You know I would have been OK with it if they had told me in advance
that this might cause isssues on some DVRs.
So yes, I am speculating. But I am speculating based on what Dish
Network has told me directly, and how they have acted in the past. It
is not unreasonable to believe that Dish knew that this could happen.
> The second sentence may be accurate insofar as the loss of recordings,
> but to attribute it to a "stunt" by DISH is not. In fact, the use of the
> word "stunt" reveals an attitude that may make it difficult to find out
> exactly what did happen.
>
> So far it has not been proven that DISH deliberately did anything that
> caused the loss.
Since it would be waste of energy to try to sue them, or otherwise get
anything legally proven, the court of public opinion will be the
arbitor. Since this court has no enforcement power, I will not
restrict my opinions to an exceptionally high standard of proof -
especially if Dish doesn't want to tell us what happened.
> It is worth noting that some of the people asserting such a loss seem to
> have had a variety of problems with DISH while others of us have
> not--even in this case. I have an early 508 and the VOD download did not
> affect my recorded programs.
Well there were plenty of DVRs that were impacted. The problem did not
occur when they rolled out the menu changes, and they noted in their
recorded message at the customer service number that the actual movies
may not be avaiable right away on certain 508 receivers. The trouble
occured the night they made the movies available.
And by the way, I have been a pretty happy Dish customer for nine
years. I worked for seventeen years in telecom providing services to
enterprise customers with high service standards. If I had doen
something like this without warning my customers in advance and making
a good faith effort to mitigate any possible problem, I would have been
out on my ass. This was a sloppy upgrade. But it least it wasn't as
sloppy as that upgrade DirecTV did a little while back where they
essentially turned something like 15,000 receivers into doorstops.
clu...@lycos.com
>if you are recording 2 epidsodes of magnum PI a day, you have bigger
>problems than your missing dvr files!
What station is that on?
Wes S
>
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.
Oliver Costich
>Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>
>> He didn't say computer, he said unit (ie DVR). It was a 3 minute video on how
>> wonderful this movie on demand feature was. It refered to the 508/510 as a
>> Dishplayer. The model wasn't that particularly good looking either.
>
>Yes, Dish did a software update that added their Movies-on-Demand
>"feature" to the 508/510 DVRs a few days ago, and it apparently works by
>stealing recording space from the user, even bumping user-recorded shows
>off the system so that it can instead store four movies at a time which
>you can only see by paying $5 a pop. So far I'm just leaving my 508 on
>all the time, to protect my recordings - but I'm trying to find out the
>best method to block this thief from entering my system in the long term.
>
>This was a very underhanded, clumsy, even evil thing done by an outfit
>that takes such public pride in getting higher ratings from its users
>than the competition. I guess when you're going up against Comcast,
>there's a lot of leeway before people say you're worse.
>
>Dish could easily have installed this feature, but left it off unless
>the user chooses to enable it. Adding an on/off toggle on the setup
>menus would have been so trivial. Hopefully they'll wake up and do it,
>now that they've alienated thousands of their customers.
And put using it on the Dish button where the other dog slow menu
driven functions are rather than putting it on the DVR button to annoy
you.
mered...@gmail.com
> i HIGHLY doubt that dish DID this to you..
> sounds like your hd failed a diagnostic, so it got formatted.. if i were
> you i would clam down and see how reliable it is, you may be in need of a
> new machine soon, and if you have already gotten nasty about it, the csr
> isnt going to be to quick to wave any fees invlived in a exchange..
>
> just my 2 cents, i know it sucks, but it wasnt them pressing a button, and
> SHIT HAPPENS
>
>
> <gatorat9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1149792514.6...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > programs, including several pay-per-view movies and some programs I
> > have not yet viewed or seen all the way through. I have estimated that
> > this to be over $100 of programming. I expect a very generous refund
> > from Dish Network, but doubt one will be forthcoming.
> >
> > post that information here.
> >
> > they erased those. This is just like having them charge me for a
> > pay-per-view, but not letting me see it.)
> >
rickwa...@gmail.com
rickwa...@gmail.com
rickwa...@gmail.com
lmm...@gmail.com
dixo...@gmail.com
> I have a DVR 510. Last night, Dish Network erased all my saved
> programs, including several pay-per-view movies and some programs I
> have not yet viewed or seen all the way through. I have estimated that
> this to be over $100 of programming. I expect a very generous refund
> from Dish Network, but doubt one will be forthcoming.
>
> If anyone knows of a class action lawsuit concerning this fraud, please
> post that information here.
>
> (I am being very serious--I paid for several pay-per-view movies and
> they erased those. This is just like having them charge me for a
> pay-per-view, but not letting me see it.)