When Broken Down And Examined With Some Common Sense, It Is Not Even Remotely Possible For A Reasonable Person To Believe The "Oswald As Patsy" Silliness
David Von Pein
alone -- murdered the President in 1963. Period. And no amount of
conspiracy-promoting cries from the CTers will change the irreversible
facts which indicate that Lee Harvey Oswald, beyond all reasonable
doubt, was guilty as hell of two murders on November 22nd, 1963 (he
killed both JFK and Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit).
Even though the evidence is massive in scope that Oswald committed both
of these murders in Dallas, Texas, there are millions of people who
would like nothing better than to see Lee Oswald's name completely
cleared when it comes to these first-degree murder charges. This "CT
mindset" is particularly alien to me when it comes to the J.D. Tippit
crime -- a cold-blooded killing on Tenth Street in Dallas that occurred
a mere 45 minutes after President Kennedy was gunned down on Elm Street
(right in front of Oswald's place of employment while a man who looked
exactly like Lee Harvey was seen aiming a rifle at the President's car
during the shooting).
The evidence of Oswald's guilt with regard to Tippit's murder is
absolutely undeniable; and it's totally unconscionable to me WHY so
many conspiracy theorists want to give Oswald a "Free Murder" card for
the Tippit slaying as well. Utterly ridiculous.
I also believe that many of the conspiracy theorists ("CTers") often
underestimate the degree of difficulty regarding the "planting" issue
in the JFK case (with this degree of difficulty ratcheted up by several
more notches with respect to the Tippit murder specifically).
Sure, I guess it's POSSIBLE that someone COULD have planted the rifle
where it was found, and the three bullet shells beneath the sniper's
window. But you've got to have more than just your own BELIEF that
things were planted to prove that they were.
Plus: When you start adding up all of the various things that needed to
be "planted", then I'd definitely say it would have been a difficult
chore to pull off -- especially when we factor in the non-Texas School
Book Depository "planted" items as well -- i.e. Bullet CE399 at
Parkland Hospital .... plus the two bullet fragments from Oswald's
rifle found in the limousine .... plus (per some CTers) the "Backyard
Photos" that were found in the Paine garage -- with multiple hunks of
shiftiness going on regarding those pictures too -- including: sneaking
into Oswald's Neely St. backyard to "fake" the pics, using a person who
PERFECTLY FITS OSWALD'S DESCRIPTION, physically-speaking, and then the
stealing of Oswald's Carcano rifle to "pose" with -- and then the
returning of the stolen rifle back to the place from whence it was
swiped -- and then the sneaking into the Paine garage at just the right
moment prior to 11/22 to "plant" the finished/fake photos -- whew! What
a project to accomplish something that PROVES NOTHING WITH REGARD TO
WHO SHOT JFK, and was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY even from a "plotter's" POV.
And then (we're not NEARLY done with the "planting project" yet, so
hold on to your hats).........
There's the "planting" of the paper bag in the "Sniper's Nest" on the
6th Floor of the Texas School Book Depository, with Oswald's prints in
just the right places, matching EXACTLY how he would have carried the
"curtain rod" package per Wesley Frazier's testimony. How did they
manage that PERFECT fingerprint placement on that bag anyway? Boy,
these plotters must have been good -- but not GOOD ENOUGH, evidently,
to avoid FIVE MISSES out of TEN SHOTS FIRED, per the theory of author
and noted "JFK assassination expert" Robert J. Groden.
And then.......
There's the "planting" of the Oswald palmprint (per many CT "It was
done in the morgue" beliefs) on the LHO rifle.
And, of course, the "planting" of the three shells, as I said, in the
TSBD window.
And, of course, we'll need a perfect OSWALD LOOK-ALIKE "posing" in the
window, either just PRETENDING to shoot with a rifle (per some CT
beliefs), or actually a good-enough "Oswald Look-alike" marksman to get
the job done and REALLY take a shot or two at the President below
(although Groden thinks NO SHOTS came from that "Oswald" window -- can
you beat THAT for nonsense?? LOL!).
And then.......
We've got the Tippit mess over on Tenth Street.....
Now we've got to "plant" some more stuff (and get either the SAME
"Oswald Look-alike" to kill Dallas Patrolman J.D. Tippit or get another
"LHO Double" from our assassin's file of hired killers, who MUST BE
OSWALD'S IDENTICAL TWIN, to pull off YET ANOTHER FRAME-UP JOB AGAINST
THIS POOR, DEFENSELESS SCHNOOK NAMED OSWALD).
We've got to "plant" the four shells at the Tippit crime scene (that we
somehow were able to take from Oswald's own gun sometime prior to
November 22nd; maybe we'll get these shells at the same time we break
into his house on Neely Street when we have to steal the rifle too).
It's either that or, miraculously, we have to get Oswald, THE SAME MAN
WE'RE FRAMING FOR TWO MURDERS, to be nice enough to hand over his own
gun to one of our assassins so that our Oswald imposter can use it to
kill Tippit ---
And then.......
We've also got to get Oswald to agree, without a peep or a whine out of
him, to TAKE BACK his gun and IMPLICATE HIMSELF WITH IT in the Texas
Theater just after he DOESN'T shoot Officer Tippit with it.
A tough road to hoe, but these plotters are up to anything it would
appear.
OK....now....We've got to also get Oswald to be near the Tippit murder
scene...and then shed a piece of clothing in "false flight" along
Jefferson Blvd. (maybe, a jacket, let's say).....
And then we've got to get Oswald to go along with the plan some more
(hopefully he won't mind TOO much) --- We've got to get him to ACT LIKE
A SUSPICIOUS CHARACTER and act like he's avoiding the police 20 or so
minutes after he DOESN'T have ANY reason to do so, because he never did
ANYTHING wrong at all. But...he's a nice guy...he'll humor us (don't ya
think?).
Then.......
We should ask Oswald to make a strange statement within the theater (a
theater that he goes into because we asked him to, and without buying a
ticket, making it look even better for us) -- something along the lines
of "This is it!" or maybe "It's all over now!" -- something akin to
that. To make it sound kind of like "the jig's up", you know.
And then.......
We should get Oswald to attempt to kill a cop within the movie theater.
I don't think he'll mind that, do you? Might as well go whole hog.
And then.......
Oh, yes, to backtrack a minute .... Before leaving the Depository after
NOT killing JFK, we should make sure Oswald high-tails it away from
work right away, making him look more suspicious in the eyes of the
law. And we should get him to make up some silly excuse about why he
left work early, making an even better case for us crackerjack
"Patsy-Plotters".
OK .... then we'll need to bribe some witnesses. --- We'll get Howard
L. Brennan for the Kennedy job -- and, let's see, let's get about 13
witnesses to say they saw Oswald, alone, kill Mr. Tippit or saw Oswald
flee the murder scene on foot immediately after Tippit was felled by
the bullets which were fired by someone else. That oughta be enough.
You don't think these 13 Dallas-ites (who have no real reason to tell a
deliberate lie and frame a person for murder that they've never seen
before in their lives) will MIND being "used" in this deceptive
fashion, do you? Nah. They'll gladly play along with our scheme. No
sweat.
And, one last item.......
After he's arrested and charged with two murders he knows he didn't
commit, we should get Oswald to LIE REPEATEDLY ABOUT MAJOR, SUBSTANTIVE
ISSUES -- like about never having owned a rifle, and about the package
he supposedly never brought to work on Friday morning, November 22nd --
and he should also tell the lie about never having heard the name "A.J.
Hidell" before in his life -- and some more lies we'll think up later.
Think Lee will mind?
David Von Pein
killer (Lee Harvey Oswald) was "set up" from the beginning, and framed
as the "Patsy" to take the blame (alone) for the President's murder.
Such a complicated Patsy scheme might seem like a reasonable solution
to some Warren Commission disbelievers when looking at selected pieces
of evidence in hindsight, many years after the event.
But I'm just wondering how many of those same people (if given the
wretched responsibility of "setting up" Oswald as the one lone fall
guy) would really have chosen to frame Mr. Oswald in the manner that is
so widely believed by CTers?
Now, if I was a rotten, dirty, lowlife killer who was planning the
assassination of an American President in a large U.S. city with many
witnesses potentially watching (and filming) my every move -- and also
wanting to pin this crime on ONE LONE PATSY named Lee H. Oswald, who
worked in a building to the rear of the President's vehicle (after that
vehicle had made its turn from Houston St. onto Elm St., that is)......
I would:
1.) Use only one shooter. I most certainly would NOT, under any
circumstances, use gobs of extra gunmen located at various places
throughout Dealey Plaza. That multi-gun idea is just plain nutty to
begin with.
2.) Shoot from where my one and only "Patsy" is supposed to be located
-- the southeast corner window on the 6th Floor of the Texas School
Book Depository Building on Elm Street.
3.) Use Lee Harvey Oswald's own Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial
#C2766).
4.) Fire three shots (or however many this single shooter could squeeze
off in the allotted time while Kennedy was in his sights; then place a
corresponding number of spent hulls/shells below the "Sniper's Nest"
window -- of course, these really won't be "planted" shells near the
window; because, via this plan, Oswald's own gun IS being utilized;
therefore, the appropriate number of shells will drop to the floor
accordingly).
5.) To reiterate the obvious -- Absolutely no frontal shots can be
fired. Frontal shots striking the target would have been suicide for me
and my other lowlife, conspiratorial plotters/cohorts/kooky henchmen.
6.) I'd find a way to keep my Patsy on the "floor of death" during the
shooting, thereby ensuring the fact that Mr. Oswald (my one and only
Patsy) does not have a viable and supportable alibi at precisely 12:30
PM on November 22nd when the President is being mowed down in broad
daylight in front of 250+ eyewitnesses.
7.) I'd probably then also shoot and kill Oswald dead right there on
the 6th Floor of the Depository, and "stage" this Oswald murder as a
"suicide". By doing this, there's certainly no need for Jack Ruby's
intervention two days later. Letting the "Patsy" stay alive for even an
hour after the assassination just does not make any sense in the
overall "Patsy" plot.
Because if there's going to be a need to "rub him out", waiting until
November 24th (AFTER he's had a chance to spill his guts to a National
TV audience for two solid days) is simply a foolhardy plan on the part
of the plotters. Kill him immediately (in the Depository) and be done
with it.
In my opinion, the above scenario is the only conceivable way such a
"Frame The Lone Patsy" plot could have possibly been pulled off
successfully (and the only type plan of this sort that any sane and
non-suicidal plotters/conspirators would have considered utilizing on
11/22/63).
The originators and developers of any "Frame The Patsy" scheme that
involves multiple shooters firing weapons at the same target at the
very same time would have been better off if they had attempted to
frame TWO different "Patsies" that day in Dallas (Oswald plus a second
fall guy firing from the front). Because trying to hide the obvious
evidence from 3 or 4 shooters (and 5 to 10 potential bullet wounds from
all of these missiles) is a task that even Superman wouldn't want to
tackle.
More contradictory "CT" brilliance.........
Many conspiracists seem to feel that if the hidden plotters had gotten
a "JFK Kill Shot" from the REAR immediately after the shooting started,
then no frontal shots would have been needed (or fired) -- and
therefore the "Frame Oswald" plan would have proceeded in a more
orderly manner.
However, it seems that many of these same CTers ALSO favor the
likelihood that Shot #1 was a shot from the front (that hit President
Kennedy in the throat).
This first shot from the front totally destroys the other theory that
has the first shot definitely coming from the REAR (which many
theorists feel also served as a "diversionary" shot to get everyone
looking toward the Sniper's Nest, where the "Patsy" is supposed to be
located).
That is yet another example of conspiracy theorists not knowing which
"theory" to follow. For, how can a person who believes that the first
shot was the proverbial "Diversionary & Hopefully 'Kill' Shot from the
Rear" also believe that the first shot came from the front and hit JFK
in the throat?
So many conspiracy theories -- so little sense do any of them make.
Robert Harris
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President John F. Kennedy in 1963. Oswald --
> alone --
If you believe that David, then you must have found a way to logically
resolve two problems:
1. The total lack of reactions to the early shots.
and
2. The very dramatic and clear reactions to the shots at Z285 and Z312.
More specifically, can you refute the arguments in this presentation:
http://two.fsphost.com/reharris/jfk.mov
and this article:
http://jfkhistory.com/k/answers.html
Instead of snipping these things and pretending they don't exist, why
don't you take a crack at trying to honestly deal with them, David?
You are absolutely right about the large number of crackpot conspiracy
theories out there. But the number of crackpots has no effect whatsoever
on the actual facts and legitimate evidence.
If you want to actually promote the LN theory *HONESTLY*, then you MUST
address these issues and feel confident that you can legitimately refute
them.
Running and evading the facts, is not going to do anything for your
credibility, David.
Robert Harris
--
There is no question an honest man will evade.
Ben Holmes
Robert Harris says...
>
>In article <1161226287.1...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President John F. Kennedy in 1963. Oswald --
>> alone --
>
>If you believe that David, then you must have found a way to logically
>resolve two problems:
>
>1. The total lack of reactions to the early shots.
>
>and
>
>2. The very dramatic and clear reactions to the shots at Z285 and Z312.
>
>More specifically, can you refute the arguments in this presentation:
>
>http://two.fsphost.com/reharris/jfk.mov
>
>and this article:
>
>http://jfkhistory.com/k/answers.html
>
>Instead of snipping these things and pretending they don't exist, why
>don't you take a crack at trying to honestly deal with them, David?
>
>You are absolutely right about the large number of crackpot conspiracy
>theories out there. But the number of crackpots has no effect whatsoever
>on the actual facts and legitimate evidence.
>
>If you want to actually promote the LN theory *HONESTLY*, then you MUST
>address these issues and feel confident that you can legitimately refute
>them.
>
>Running and evading the facts, is not going to do anything for your
>credibility, David.
>
>
>
>
>Robert Harris
Interesting title... "Common Sense" is a LNT'er phrase for "Stay Away from the
Specific Evidence". I suspect that it's probably a chapter unto itself in the
LNT'ers Handbook.
And LNT'ers *still* think that up to 90% of America are 'kooks'. How sad...
David Von Pein
David Von Pein
Peter Fokes wrote on 11/11/2006:
>>> "Could you give us an example of an "inept" argument?" <<<
DVP replied:
Is this a trick question, Peter? (Must be...because PF surely can't be
serious here re. "inept" pro-CT arguments....because those must number
in
the hundreds.)
Just off the top of my head, these would qualify under the "inept"
banner......
1.) Oswald was being "set up" as a lone "patsy" by a group of sinister
assassins/behind-the-scenes henchmen who decided to use MULTIPLE guns
to
shoot JFK. And, somehow, it would seem that these same conspirators
thought that all of the evidence surrounding this multi-gun shooting
would
end up falling conveniently into the Patsy's lap and only his lap.
This one is by far THE most "inept" argument in the history of
pro-conspiracy arguments!
2.) The Mob hired a big-mouth nightclub owner to eliminate the
patsy...and
then waited two whole days to get rid of said dupe....and decided to do
it
on LIVE NETWORK TELEVISION, so that nobody would miss SEEING THE
CONSPIRACY IN ACTION!
3.) Oswald was (somehow) "planted"/"placed" in the TSBD by a group of
(always-unidentified) plotters, even though (at the time of this
"planting" of LHO on 10/15/63) there was no possible way that these
plotters could have known for certain if the TSBD would even be a
viable
place to put an assassin more than a month later -- due to the
motorcade
route having not been nearly finalized as of October 15th.
4.) The "plotters" utilize this guy --
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/LHO25.jpg -- as an "Imposter Oswald" in
Mexico City. (Great job by the henchmen on this one, huh? They might as
well have used Jayne Mansfield to pose as Oswald....she looks about as
much like LHO as this guy does.)
5.) The Patsy-Framers decide they couldn't care less where their one
patsy
is located at 12:30 PM on 11/22. For all these idiot plotters knew, the
patsy might have strolled outside to watch the parade and accidentally
garnered for himself a perfect alibi....or he might be wandering around
on
the 1st or 2nd floors of the Book Depository (as is depicted in Oliver
Stone's film re. Oswald's whereabouts at the exact time of the
assassination, which is a film/theory that so many CTers seem to have
embraced).
# 5 here is one of those things that CTers can't reconcile (and never
will
be able to reconcile) in a logical and believable manner within the
context of a purported "Oswald Was Merely A Patsy And Never Fired A
Shot"
theory.
It's one of those items that tends to debunk the "Pre-Arranged Patsy
Plot"
theory all by itself. But hardcore CTers refuse to examine anything
relating to the MECHANICS of the so-called "Patsy" plot from any kind
of
PRE-11/22 point-of-view.
Most CTers will only view the event through POST-assassination
eyeballs,
never (apparently) bothering to notice the many inherent flaws in the
Patsy Plot. With # 5 above being very near the top of this list of
flaws.
And my # 1 item above also falls into this very same "unreconcilable"
category as well (possibly even more so than # 5).
~~~~~~~~~~~
15 additional inept conspiracy arguments can be found here......
tomnln
Some websites offer "Opinions" such as below.
"Backstreet Aftermath" <zoom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20054-455...@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net...
> In case anybody interested.here the web page:
> http://www.trialrun.com/work/profiles/lee_harvey_oswald.html
>
> ZOOM
>
Other Websites offer Official Records such as this one.
http://whokilledjfk.net/
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1163383336.3...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...