Re: constant nhs bunkum concerning end of life care...

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:22:22 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
wrote:

>
>people die....they are dying later...therefore they can
> work/contribute longer...
>
>a person who dies at 50 is infirm...and a person who dies
> at 93 is infirm...
>they both take about as long needing/wanting care...
>
>the population is increasing..therefore the number of bodies
> around to contribute to care, is greater...
> (though this has ponzi inclinations)
>
>just about every process is being increasingly efficiencised...
>
>large numbers of the population cry all day for less work
> and earlier 'retirement'
>
>
>there maybe a laziness problem but there is not 'care crisis'
> requiring ever more money/taxes...from other people...

--
www.abelard.org

[Phi]

"abelard" <abel...@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:laa3oc5c4ghqbs89i...@4ax.com...

When robots take over work the problem will be solved.

[abelard]

>When robots take over work the problem will be solved.

in various degrees that is already underway...

but people want ever more 'luxuries'/services for less cost/work


--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:36:31 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
wrote:

When hasn't there been a NHS crisis?

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

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[abelard]

before attlee got hold of it and politicised it?

--
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[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:46:52 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

That would explain why I cannot remember ouwt else. I was only a twinkle
in my father's eye at that time.

So do I assume you don't support state health care?

[Tom]

You are saying that the victims of all this bollocks haven't paid taxes
or won't continue to do so after retirement?

We all pay taxes almost every time that money changes hands.

[Shadow]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:28:43 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:22:22 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>people die....they are dying later...therefore they can
>>work/contribute longer...

Not true. People can have disabling (usually mental) issues at
50 and not be able to work and still go on to live to 90. There's a
guy that STALKS here who is a perfect example. He was laid off 30
years ago, but he's still alive.

https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

>>
>>a person who dies at 50 is infirm...and a person who dies
>> at 93 is infirm...

As are people that talk to themselves. You are replying to
your own message, which is OT here in acf...
[]'s

PS Yes, I got it, unless you die a sudden death, you will need
care when you get ill. Maybe the CIA could step in. The junior
recruits need live targets to practice on...
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

[BurfordTJustice]

Is that why you are hiding in Brazil and helped make people "disappear"???





"Shadow" <S...@dow.br> wrote in message
news:o6m3oc9lt0e5539sb...@4ax.com...

[Shadow]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:46:25 +0100, Tom <thepip...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

Yes, but most of the money is going to back to the working
class (at least in the UK/EU). I think he's trying to say that there
are a lot of "health insurance" CEOs that would love to get their
hands on that tax money.
[]'s

[Phi]

"Tom" <thepip...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:olskrr$ao4$1...@dont-email.me...

VAT comes to mind

[David B.]

On 02-Aug-17 2:58 PM, Shadow *LIED* again. Why?

> He was laid off 30
> years ago, but he's still alive.

Explain truthfully, Shadow.

--
Sometimes man stumbles over the truth. (W.Churchill)

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

Abelard or table lard--ah! that is the question.

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 13:26:40 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"

i'm fine with support for the poor and incompetent...

i'm for catastrophic insurance...

i'm for a savings account which ends as part of your estate...

there's a start for you

singapore has a similar such system...the usa wasn't much different
until the o'barmy started interfering
most systems require some inputs/payments* from the citizen...

*skin in the game, as americans put it...

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:11:06 +0100, Farmer Giles <gi...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>On 02-Aug-17 12:09 PM, abelard wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 12:04:23 +0100, Farmer Giles <gi...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:

>>> Who had it before he 'got hold of it'?
>>
>>
>> http://www.abelard.org/socialism/labour-party-did-not-start-nhs.php
>>
>>
>
>
>I never go to strange websites, just tell me who had the NHS before
>Atlee 'got hold of it'?

you can't even spell his name..

you can't set up your posting software...

you're a lazy minded ponk...

why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
dependent sheep

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:46:25 +0100, Tom <thepip...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

no, you said that...

which particular 'bollox'?

>We all pay taxes almost every time that money changes hands.

indeed

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:58:54 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:28:43 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:22:22 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>people die....they are dying later...therefore they can
>>>work/contribute longer...
>
> Not true. People can have disabling (usually mental) issues at
>50 and not be able to work and still go on to live to 90. There's a
>guy that STALKS here who is a perfect example. He was laid off 30
>years ago, but he's still alive.

so, you cite an exceptional case...such cases have always
been with us...

>https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
>
>>>
>>>a person who dies at 50 is infirm...and a person who dies
>>> at 93 is infirm...
>
> As are people that talk to themselves. You are replying to
>your own message, which is OT here in acf...
> []'s

it isn't quite the 'same'...

> PS Yes, I got it, unless you die a sudden death, you will need
>care when you get ill. Maybe the CIA could step in. The junior
>recruits need live targets to practice on...

if you say so

--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:25:44 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

Hmm. The trouble with American healthcare is the doctors have too much
skin in the game. Over prescribed meds and unnecessary ops.

I don't see that delivering better value for money.

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:13:48 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"

nothing is perfect...their standards are higher

the lawyer are causing much of the problems...

but the usa big pharmas are selling drugs to the world
and improving technology...

they have anti-competition rules which o'barmy has aggravated...

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 20:30:38 +0100, Farmer Giles <gi...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Oh my, one typo from me and the group's spelling dunce gets all high and
>mighty.

not a 'typo', just more of your ignorance

god knows what you are doing on a political newsgroup

>> you can't set up your posting software...
>>
>> you're a lazy minded ponk...
>>
>> why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
>> dependent sheep

>Why not try answering the question instead of just waffling as usual. Go
>on, it's quite simple - although too difficult for you it would appear -
>who had the NHS before Attlee 'got hold of it'?
>
>Come on, Humpty Babbelard, let's hear it - the nation awaits your
>fantastic revelations.

why would i incentivise your laziness?

and you claiming to be a mensa member!!


--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:28:30 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
wrote:

>why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
> dependent sheep

Aren't we all dependent on Doctors?

Even Doctors are dependent on Doctors.

All of us were lambs and it takes time to learn to be a wolf.

It's the way of things.

You just want to shepherd the sheep into another pen Mr Wolf.

What big eyes you have got.

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:33:39 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

I don't see over a third of Americans being prescribed opiods per year
as a higher standard. There is little incentive in their political or
healthcare system to improve preventative medicine. Illness is too
profitable.

I don't want to take a single pill more than I really need to and sure
as hell I don't want an op I don't need. I want dispassionate advice
from my doc not someone swayed by their desire to own the latest
Ferrari.

I'm not qualified to know if their standards are higher. The trouble
with Yanks is you never know. Bullshit is so endemic that I find it hard
to believe that anyone could make a half accurate quality assessment.
How can you compare our two systems when theirs has such a big question
mark hanging over it with regard to clinical need.

>the lawyer are causing much of the problems...
>
>but the usa big pharmas are selling drugs to the world
> and improving technology...

That may be true, but a system based on profit isn't necessarily the
best. There's a big problem with development of new antibiotics because
of their shortened lifecycle.

>they have anti-competition rules which o'barmy has aggravated...

There's a bit of Attlee in you yunno.

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:39:53 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:28:30 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
>> dependent sheep
>
>Aren't we all dependent on Doctors?
>
>Even Doctors are dependent on Doctors.
>
>All of us were lambs and it takes time to learn to be a wolf.
>
>It's the way of things.
>
>You just want to shepherd the sheep into another pen Mr Wolf.
>
>What big eyes you have got.

dependency is a choice...

you may as easily say 'we are all dependent on farmers'

or oxygen

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:25:14 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:33:39 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

>>nothing is perfect...their standards are higher
>
>I don't see over a third of Americans being prescribed opiods per year
>as a higher standard. There is little incentive in their political or
>healthcare system to improve preventative medicine. Illness is too
>profitable.

yes it is...but no-one makes you take opioids

>I don't want to take a single pill more than I really need to and sure
>as hell I don't want an op I don't need. I want dispassionate advice
>from my doc not someone swayed by their desire to own the latest
>Ferrari.

same problem with the plumber and the garage

the only defences are constant learning and intelligent friends

to a degree imv you just write off the losses

>I'm not qualified to know if their standards are higher. The trouble
>with Yanks is you never know. Bullshit is so endemic that I find it hard
>to believe that anyone could make a half accurate quality assessment.
>How can you compare our two systems when theirs has such a big question
>mark hanging over it with regard to clinical need.

why do you believe it to be different anywhere?

>>the lawyer are causing much of the problems...
>>
>>but the usa big pharmas are selling drugs to the world
>> and improving technology...
>
>That may be true, but a system based on profit isn't necessarily the
>best. There's a big problem with development of new antibiotics because
>of their shortened lifecycle.

this applies to any drug....a very small change re-establishes patents

then there is regulatory capture

>>they have anti-competition rules which o'barmy has aggravated...
>
>There's a bit of Attlee in you yunno.

i can't find it :-)

i don't believe in the ant's nest approach to living...

at least attlee was a patriot if nothing else

corvyd is another step down the path of integrity

--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:39:50 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:39:53 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
><super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:28:30 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
>>> dependent sheep
>>
>>Aren't we all dependent on Doctors?
>>
>>Even Doctors are dependent on Doctors.
>>
>>All of us were lambs and it takes time to learn to be a wolf.
>>
>>It's the way of things.
>>
>>You just want to shepherd the sheep into another pen Mr Wolf.
>>
>>What big eyes you have got.
>
>dependency is a choice...

Choice is very time consuming. Making better choices even more so. The
more complex the choice the more time spent and the more the pleasure
principle pulls us. We all want one less thing to think about and to
follow our own interests, that doesn't make us sheep, just human.

>you may as easily say 'we are all dependent on farmers'

OK.

>or oxygen

OK.

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:49:11 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:25:14 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
><super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:33:39 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>
>>>nothing is perfect...their standards are higher
>>
>>I don't see over a third of Americans being prescribed opiods per year
>>as a higher standard. There is little incentive in their political or
>>healthcare system to improve preventative medicine. Illness is too
>>profitable.
>
>yes it is...but no-one makes you take opioids

Good farmers take care of their sheep.

You don't seem to be a very good farmer and if I'm going to be dependent
on someone and as you say that's a choice I think you had better play
the 'cheap' card because the 'value' and 'service' angles have just got
shot to shit.

I can't tell, is that good or bad in your opinion?

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 23:31:55 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"

<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:49:11 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:25:14 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
>><super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:33:39 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>
>>>>nothing is perfect...their standards are higher
>>>
>>>I don't see over a third of Americans being prescribed opiods per year
>>>as a higher standard. There is little incentive in their political or
>>>healthcare system to improve preventative medicine. Illness is too
>>>profitable.
>>
>>yes it is...but no-one makes you take opioids
>
>Good farmers take care of their sheep.

yes

>You don't seem to be a very good farmer and if I'm going to be dependent
>on someone and as you say that's a choice

The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every
class is unfit to govern. [1881] baron acton...

i can as easily change that to:-
The danger is not that a particular person is unfit to govern. Every
person is unfit to govern.

better that people are taught to govern themselves...

> I think you had better play
>the 'cheap' card because the 'value' and 'service' angles have just got
>shot to shit.

i don't understand that with clarity

down..i meant down, a lower level of integrity

sorry i wasn't clear


--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:32:15 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"

<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:39:50 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:39:53 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
>><super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:28:30 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
>>>> dependent sheep
>>>
>>>Aren't we all dependent on Doctors?
>>>
>>>Even Doctors are dependent on Doctors.
>>>
>>>All of us were lambs and it takes time to learn to be a wolf.
>>>
>>>It's the way of things.
>>>
>>>You just want to shepherd the sheep into another pen Mr Wolf.
>>>
>>>What big eyes you have got.
>>
>>dependency is a choice...
>
>Choice is very time consuming. Making better choices even more so. The
>more complex the choice the more time spent and the more the pleasure
>principle pulls us. We all want one less thing to think about and to
>follow our own interests, that doesn't make us sheep, just human.

i am driven by curiosity...

the enemy of my life is boredom

does that contradict your assertion?

--
www.abelard.org

[Shadow]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 21:25:14 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>I don't see over a third of Americans being prescribed opiods per year
>as a higher standard. There is little incentive in their political or
>healthcare system to improve preventative medicine. Illness is too
>profitable.
>
>I don't want to take a single pill more than I really need to and sure
>as hell I don't want an op I don't need. I want dispassionate advice
>from my doc not someone swayed by their desire to own the latest
>Ferrari.

OMG, you must be one of those communists they warn us about on
#FAUXNEWS. If you don't take your pills, the people that make them
don't make tons of cash, can't afford lobbies and so there's no hope
of "Making Britain Great Again". Though on the upside, you don't need
"A Wall", there's that moat all around you to keep the furriners out.
You have to admit, the Vikings were smart building it, way ahead of
their time.

>
>I'm not qualified to know if their standards are higher.

They're not. Morons buy their way into practices, instead of
being weeded out by national exams.

>The trouble
>with Yanks is you never know. Bullshit is so endemic that I find it hard
>to believe that anyone could make a half accurate quality assessment.
>How can you compare our two systems when theirs has such a big question
>mark hanging over it with regard to clinical need.
>
>>the lawyer are causing much of the problems...
>>
>>but the usa big pharmas are selling drugs to the world
>> and improving technology...

Nah, they are making you believe you need to take their drugs.
They only make money if you don't get cured.

>
>That may be true, but a system based on profit isn't necessarily the
>best. There's a big problem with development of new antibiotics because
>of their shortened lifecycle.
>
>>they have anti-competition rules which o'barmy has aggravated...

But now, that's all changed.
Brave New World.

>
>There's a bit of Attlee in you yunno.

Dunno what that is, but if I was the OP I'd see a decent
community doctor and have it taken out. If he pays his taxes, the
doctor probably won't charge.

[Shadow]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:39:50 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:39:53 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
><super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:28:30 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>why not get the 'free' nhs to help you like other
>>> dependent sheep
>>
>>Aren't we all dependent on Doctors?
>>
>>Even Doctors are dependent on Doctors.
>>
>>All of us were lambs and it takes time to learn to be a wolf.
>>
>>It's the way of things.
>>
>>You just want to shepherd the sheep into another pen Mr Wolf.
>>
>>What big eyes you have got.
>
>dependency is a choice...
>
>you may as easily say 'we are all dependent on farmers'

We are.
>
>or oxygen

Oh sht. I hope they're not going to outsource that to some
private company.

[abelard]

they're are going to tax it at 15%

--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:58:42 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

>>you may as easily say 'we are all dependent on farmers'
>
> We are.
>>
>>or oxygen
>
> Oh sht. I hope they're not going to outsource that to some
>private company.

They will. Move to Mars. Oxygen will be free for a year if you sign up
for a ten year variable contract overseen by a toothless regulator.

Don't forget to ignore the small print.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:46:25 +0100, Tom <thepip...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On 02/08/2017 11:28, abelard wrote:

>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:22:22 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> people die....they are dying later...therefore they can
>>> work/contribute longer...
>>>
>>> a person who dies at 50 is infirm...and a person who dies
>>> at 93 is infirm...
>>> they both take about as long needing/wanting care...
>>>
>>> the population is increasing..therefore the number of bodies
>>> around to contribute to care, is greater...
>>> (though this has ponzi inclinations)
>>>
>>> just about every process is being increasingly efficiencised...
>>>
>>> large numbers of the population cry all day for less work
>>> and earlier 'retirement'
>>>
>>>
>>> there maybe a laziness problem but there is not 'care crisis'
>>> requiring ever more money/taxes...from other people...
>>
>

>You are saying that the victims of all this bollocks haven't paid taxes
>or won't continue to do so after retirement?
>

>We all pay taxes almost every time that money changes hands.

Not only that, the boomers are the bulge in the python there are many
more people approaching the point of not being able to work (and even
get work if they want to work - who will hire a 75 year old brick
layer, carpenter, or framer - or mechanic - much less an 85 year old -
even if the guy WANTED to work and was physically able??? ) The old
guys retiring makes jobs for the young guys.
Also, the old guys are living a LOT longer after they get to be "old
guys" than they used to. They DO require more care. The population is
not increasing as fast as it is aging. There IS a carfe crisis coming.
In many areas it is already here - in a MAJOR way.
I hope Abetard lives to 95 with severe arthritis in his back and COPD
or emphysema. Mabee throw in a bad rotator cuff or two, and to really
drive it home to him parkinsons or what do you call it when you loose
your memory????
And I hope he gets the care he figures everyone else is entitled to
when his last two nickels get worn through.

[Wildman]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:13:48 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (coder) wrote:

> Hmm. The trouble with American healthcare is the doctors have too much
> skin in the game. Over prescribed meds and unnecessary ops.
>
> I don't see that delivering better value for money.
>
> Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

Just curious, how many times have you used the American
healthcare system?

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:48:42 -0500, Wildman <best...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:13:48 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (coder) wrote:
>
>> Hmm. The trouble with American healthcare is the doctors have too much
>> skin in the game. Over prescribed meds and unnecessary ops.
>>
>> I don't see that delivering better value for money.
>>
>> Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
>
>Just curious, how many times have you used the American
>healthcare system?

Dear boy, the knower of all things ' The BBC' keeps us citizens at the
hub of what was once an empire upon which the sun never set well
informed about the state of affairs in our colonies. Don't you worry
about that.

[Shadow]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:48:42 -0500, Wildman <best...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:13:48 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (coder) wrote:
>
>> Hmm. The trouble with American healthcare is the doctors have too much
>> skin in the game. Over prescribed meds and unnecessary ops.
>>
>> I don't see that delivering better value for money.
>>
>> Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
>
>Just curious, how many times have you used the American
>healthcare system?

I studied it for over 30 years.
Experience enough ?

[Wildman]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 02:06:44 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (coder) wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:48:42 -0500, Wildman <best...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:13:48 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (coder) wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm. The trouble with American healthcare is the doctors have too much
>>> skin in the game. Over prescribed meds and unnecessary ops.
>>>
>>> I don't see that delivering better value for money.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.
>>
>>Just curious, how many times have you used the American
>>healthcare system?
>
> Dear boy, the knower of all things ' The BBC' keeps us citizens at the
> hub of what was once an empire upon which the sun never set well
> informed about the state of affairs in our colonies. Don't you worry
> about that.
>
> Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

I see. The answer is none.

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

Quite honestly I'm not sure that would help much. Every GP, every
hospital, hospital department, individual consultant varies. I don't see
how any individual can get a clear view of large systems by sampling so
few resources.

If you believed the press in the UK you would think healthcare is in a
state of perpetual collapse. The few times I sample it lead me to
believe something far different.

I quote freely available stats and journalistic comparisons between our
two systems. If you disagree with anything I post say so. I'm all ears
and tail really.

[abelard]

so change you culture
so change your job...there are plentiful jobs in the care homes...
so i'm told

> The old
>guys retiring makes jobs for the young guys.
>Also, the old guys are living a LOT longer after they get to be "old
>guys" than they used to. They DO require more care.

so help one another

> The population is
>not increasing as fast as it is aging.

it is growing faster than it is dying off

what is changing is human ability to keep people alive
who would have popped it a few decades back...
that's not 'a crisis'...that's a bonus...

> There IS a carfe crisis coming.
>In many areas it is already here - in a MAJOR way.
>I hope Abetard lives to 95 with severe arthritis in his back and COPD
>or emphysema. Mabee throw in a bad rotator cuff or two, and to really
>drive it home to him parkinsons or what do you call it when you loose
>your memory????

and a happy christmas to you too

you must be a socialist

>And I hope he gets the care he figures everyone else is entitled to
>when his last two nickels get worn through.

i don't do 'entitled'

--
www.abelard.org

[abelard]

the socialist way:-
always emotion...never reason



--
www.abelard.org

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 01:53:04 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
wrote:

>
>> I think you had better play
>>the 'cheap' card because the 'value' and 'service' angles have just got
>>shot to shit.
>
>i don't understand that with clarity

Well you just defended the American system over prescribing by putting
the responsibility squarely in the hands of patients.

>>>corvyd is another step down the path of integrity
>>
>>I can't tell, is that good or bad in your opinion?
>
>down..i meant down, a lower level of integrity
>
>sorry i wasn't clear

He's the worst of a bad set of choices.

[abelard]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 09:45:12 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
<super...@fluffyunderbelly.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 01:53:04 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>> I think you had better play
>>>the 'cheap' card because the 'value' and 'service' angles have just got
>>>shot to shit.
>>
>>i don't understand that with clarity
>
>Well you just defended the American system over prescribing by putting
>the responsibility squarely in the hands of patients.

all behaviours have costs and benefits...you balance those as
best you can and according to your lights, abilities
and priorities...

>>>>corvyd is another step down the path of integrity
>>>
>>>I can't tell, is that good or bad in your opinion?
>>
>>down..i meant down, a lower level of integrity
>>
>>sorry i wasn't clear
>
>He's the worst of a bad set of choices.

he sure is...

--
www.abelard.org

[dvus]

Yes, and when their pipe dreams blow up in their faces (and they always
do) they inevitably find a way to blame it on the "entitled" people who
planned and saved for their retirement. They never take credit for the
catastrophes caused by their pie-in-the-sky schemes. The ill-fated ACA
is a good example.

--
dvus

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:24:40 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>

You have OBVIOUSLY never worked as a personal care worker or health
caere worker. It is VERY strenuous work that is beyond the ability of
the vast majority of seniors.

>
>> The old
>>guys retiring makes jobs for the young guys.
>>Also, the old guys are living a LOT longer after they get to be "old
>>guys" than they used to. They DO require more care.
>
>so help one another

The kind of care that cannot be provided by others requiring the same
care.

>
>> The population is
>>not increasing as fast as it is aging.
>
>it is growing faster than it is dying off

No it is not

>
>what is changing is human ability to keep people alive
> who would have popped it a few decades back...
>that's not 'a crisis'...that's a bonus...
>
>> There IS a carfe crisis coming.
>>In many areas it is already here - in a MAJOR way.
>>I hope Abetard lives to 95 with severe arthritis in his back and COPD
>>or emphysema. Mabee throw in a bad rotator cuff or two, and to really
>>drive it home to him parkinsons or what do you call it when you loose
>>your memory????
>
>and a happy christmas to you too
>
>you must be a socialist
>
>>And I hope he gets the care he figures everyone else is entitled to
>>when his last two nickels get worn through.
>
>i don't do 'entitled'

No, you do totally delusional.

[abelard]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:43:02 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:24:40 +0200, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 20:41:58 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:46:25 +0100, Tom <thepip...@nowhere.com>

>>>>We all pay taxes almost every time that money changes hands.
>>> Not only that, the boomers are the bulge in the python there are many
>>>more people approaching the point of not being able to work (and even
>>>get work if they want to work - who will hire a 75 year old brick
>>>layer, carpenter, or framer - or mechanic - much less an 85 year old -
>>>even if the guy WANTED to work and was physically able??? )
>>
>>so change you culture
>>so change your job...there are plentiful jobs in the care homes...
>> so i'm told
>
>You have OBVIOUSLY never worked as a personal care worker or health
>caere worker. It is VERY strenuous work that is beyond the ability of
>the vast majority of seniors.

as you're socialist ms snydeyer, you obviously prefer your own
delusions to reality

>>> The old
>>>guys retiring makes jobs for the young guys.
>>>Also, the old guys are living a LOT longer after they get to be "old
>>>guys" than they used to. They DO require more care.
>>
>>so help one another
>The kind of care that cannot be provided by others requiring the same
>care.

irrelevant and untrue

>>> The population is
>>>not increasing as fast as it is aging.
>>
>>it is growing faster than it is dying off
>No it is not

nonsense

>>what is changing is human ability to keep people alive
>> who would have popped it a few decades back...
>>that's not 'a crisis'...that's a bonus...
>>
>>> There IS a carfe crisis coming.
>>>In many areas it is already here - in a MAJOR way.
>>>I hope Abetard lives to 95 with severe arthritis in his back and COPD
>>>or emphysema. Mabee throw in a bad rotator cuff or two, and to really
>>>drive it home to him parkinsons or what do you call it when you loose
>>>your memory????
>>
>>and a happy christmas to you too
>>
>>you must be a socialist
>>
>>>And I hope he gets the care he figures everyone else is entitled to
>>>when his last two nickels get worn through.
>>
>>i don't do 'entitled'

> No, you do totally delusional.

as you're socialist ms snydeyer, you obviously prefer your own
delusions to reality

--
www.abelard.org