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The Christian religion is a cult
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Andrew W
Jan 5, 2012, 9:50:24 PM1/5/12
to
The Christian religion is a cult.
Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
--
No man becomes a slave until he ceases to be his own master.
Christianity - the religion of subjugation.
Rod
Jan 5, 2012, 10:58:55 PM1/5/12
to
On 1/5/2012 8:50 PM, Andrew W wrote:
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
>
I don't know about this....I've got a 9 year old neighbor boy
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
>
that occasionally picks his nose and flicks a booger my way, and
just last saturday morning he flipped me the bird. I can see laying
the little beast on a slab and cutting his heart out...
Andrew W
Jan 6, 2012, 12:34:16 AM1/6/12
to
"Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:je5nhk$r4b$1...@dont-email.me
created the problem in the first place, i.e. generating the primitive fear
oriented claim that we somehow offended the creator of the universe, and
even claiming in various ways through centuries/millennia of religious
tradition that the creator himself told us.
Is that even possible? Can we actually offend a perfectly omniscient, wise
and powerful Creator who planned everything to happen the way he would want?
Is there any evidence for the claim?
news:je5nhk$r4b$1...@dont-email.me
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> cross) is a cult.
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
Christianity gives us a solution to our major problem, but only after it
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> cross) is a cult.
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
created the problem in the first place, i.e. generating the primitive fear
oriented claim that we somehow offended the creator of the universe, and
even claiming in various ways through centuries/millennia of religious
tradition that the creator himself told us.
Is that even possible? Can we actually offend a perfectly omniscient, wise
and powerful Creator who planned everything to happen the way he would want?
Is there any evidence for the claim?
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Jan 6, 2012, 12:58:04 AM1/6/12
to
The Light That Was Dark:
From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
Warren B. Smith (Author)
With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
alike.
A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
could destroy his life.
Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
to be.
Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
Light That Was Dark
Editorial Reviews
Review
A captivating book ... The conclusion is absolutely riveting. In easy-
to-read, laid-back style, Smith recounts his harrowing spiritual
journey. --Discernment Ministries - Sarah Leslie - Spring 2005
An amazing story about God's amazing grace. --Ingrid Schlueter, VCY
America - CrossTalk Radio Program, 2005
An important book. Authors like Smith provide a clarion call the
church would be foolish to ignore. --Tim Challies Book Reviewer -
Challies.com - May 2005
The Church is being seduced by the same false teachings that has drawn
many people into the New Age Movement. --Cutting Edge Ministries
Warren and Joy's encounter with personal evil convinced them the Bible
was the spiritual teaching that they could rely on. --Russ Wise,
Author of A Course in Miracles, A Biblical Evaluation
From the Publisher
If you have read Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the
Purpose Driven Church, then The Light That Was Dark is a must-read.
Read the testimony of the man who saw the truth about Purpose Driven
Life.
With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
alike.
44 of 44 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars A LIFE THAT WAS DARK, April 25, 2006
By L. DEBRUYN (Indianapolis) - (REAL NAME) This review is from: The
Light That Was Dark: From the New Age to Amazing Grace (Paperback)
For any persons who are considering involving themselves in New Age
"spirituality"-which is really a very old spirituality-and might
wonder what that spirituality is like and where it might take them,
then Warren Smith's "The Light That Was Dark" is a must read.
For others involved in the pursuit of alternative spirituality and,
for whatever the reason, have grown uncomfortable with their
participation in it, then they will identify with author's spiritual
journey as he shows the way out.
All readers though, will relate to the candor with which Warren
reveals his experiences as a participant of the 60s and 70s counter
culture. Readers will engage and be entertained by a wide variety of
characters and ideas that the author encountered in his personal quest
for spiritual meaning, during which time both he and his wife naively
connected to what they thought would bring them spiritual power and
freedom only to discover the reality of spiritual bondage.
Once the book is engaged, readers will finish the book. As an Ivy
League graduate, Warren writes well. I heartily recommend the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Light-That-Was-Dark-Amazing/dp/0976349213
From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
Warren B. Smith (Author)
With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
alike.
A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
could destroy his life.
Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
to be.
Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
Light That Was Dark
Editorial Reviews
Review
A captivating book ... The conclusion is absolutely riveting. In easy-
to-read, laid-back style, Smith recounts his harrowing spiritual
journey. --Discernment Ministries - Sarah Leslie - Spring 2005
An amazing story about God's amazing grace. --Ingrid Schlueter, VCY
America - CrossTalk Radio Program, 2005
An important book. Authors like Smith provide a clarion call the
church would be foolish to ignore. --Tim Challies Book Reviewer -
Challies.com - May 2005
The Church is being seduced by the same false teachings that has drawn
many people into the New Age Movement. --Cutting Edge Ministries
Warren and Joy's encounter with personal evil convinced them the Bible
was the spiritual teaching that they could rely on. --Russ Wise,
Author of A Course in Miracles, A Biblical Evaluation
From the Publisher
If you have read Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the
Purpose Driven Church, then The Light That Was Dark is a must-read.
Read the testimony of the man who saw the truth about Purpose Driven
Life.
With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
alike.
44 of 44 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars A LIFE THAT WAS DARK, April 25, 2006
By L. DEBRUYN (Indianapolis) - (REAL NAME) This review is from: The
Light That Was Dark: From the New Age to Amazing Grace (Paperback)
For any persons who are considering involving themselves in New Age
"spirituality"-which is really a very old spirituality-and might
wonder what that spirituality is like and where it might take them,
then Warren Smith's "The Light That Was Dark" is a must read.
For others involved in the pursuit of alternative spirituality and,
for whatever the reason, have grown uncomfortable with their
participation in it, then they will identify with author's spiritual
journey as he shows the way out.
All readers though, will relate to the candor with which Warren
reveals his experiences as a participant of the 60s and 70s counter
culture. Readers will engage and be entertained by a wide variety of
characters and ideas that the author encountered in his personal quest
for spiritual meaning, during which time both he and his wife naively
connected to what they thought would bring them spiritual power and
freedom only to discover the reality of spiritual bondage.
Once the book is engaged, readers will finish the book. As an Ivy
League graduate, Warren writes well. I heartily recommend the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Light-That-Was-Dark-Amazing/dp/0976349213
Yap
Jan 6, 2012, 2:05:55 AM1/6/12
to
On Jan 6, 1:34 pm, "Andrew W" <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "Andrew W" <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
There is no such thing as a creator, which if being so evil is not to
be worshiped, let alone pray to.
We all see the churches rack in millions in tax free money, just to
sustain itself. This creates a great drag in the progress of human to
use this wealth to advance and help wipe out poverty.
> "Andrew W" <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:je5nhk$r4b$1...@dont-email.me
>
> > The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> > Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> > and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> > cross) is a cult.
> > Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
> Christianity gives us a solution to our major problem, but only after it
> created the problem in the first place, i.e. generating the primitive fear
> oriented claim that we somehow offended the creator of the universe, and
> even claiming in various ways through centuries/millennia of religious
> tradition that the creator himself told us.
> Is that even possible? Can we actually offend a perfectly omniscient, wise
> and powerful Creator who planned everything to happen the way he would want?
> Is there any evidence for the claim?
What you have said is of ancient words from the mouths of un-educated.
> news:je5nhk$r4b$1...@dont-email.me
>
> > The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> > Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> > and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> > cross) is a cult.
> > Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
> Christianity gives us a solution to our major problem, but only after it
> created the problem in the first place, i.e. generating the primitive fear
> oriented claim that we somehow offended the creator of the universe, and
> even claiming in various ways through centuries/millennia of religious
> tradition that the creator himself told us.
> Is that even possible? Can we actually offend a perfectly omniscient, wise
> and powerful Creator who planned everything to happen the way he would want?
> Is there any evidence for the claim?
There is no such thing as a creator, which if being so evil is not to
be worshiped, let alone pray to.
We all see the churches rack in millions in tax free money, just to
sustain itself. This creates a great drag in the progress of human to
use this wealth to advance and help wipe out poverty.
Andrew W
Jan 6, 2012, 2:59:52 AM1/6/12
to
<jwshe...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2051980e-b7c0-4eb5...@y12g2000yqc.googlegroups.com
How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been misled
by the dark?
Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god figure. Only
dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower people. Do powerless beings
need to be further disempowered?
What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods? The god
got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic subjugation.
Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be afraid
of if he's all powerful?
Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many cases
petty wrongs and errors?
Think about it.
news:2051980e-b7c0-4eb5...@y12g2000yqc.googlegroups.com
> The Light That Was Dark:
> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>
>
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
> could destroy his life.
>
> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
> to be.
>
> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
> Light That Was Dark
>
How would you know if you had the true Christ?
> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>
>
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
> could destroy his life.
>
> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
> to be.
>
> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
> Light That Was Dark
>
How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been misled
by the dark?
Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god figure. Only
dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower people. Do powerless beings
need to be further disempowered?
What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods? The god
got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic subjugation.
Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be afraid
of if he's all powerful?
Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many cases
petty wrongs and errors?
Think about it.
Steve Hayes
Jan 6, 2012, 10:58:23 AM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"
<remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>The Christian religion is a cult.
And a cat is a carnivore.
<remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>The Christian religion is a cult.
A bassoon is a woodwind.
A Toyota Corolla is a motor car.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
The Doctor
Jan 6, 2012, 11:46:50 AM1/6/12
to
In article <je69ls$sj9$1...@dont-email.me>,
Touch the nail scarred hands of Jesus and believe.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
Merry Christmas 2011 and Happy New Year 2012 !
duke
Jan 6, 2012, 12:38:42 PM1/6/12
to
>The Christian religion is a cult.
>
>Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
That's not what happened on the cross.
>
>Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Jan 6, 2012, 12:43:17 PM1/6/12
to
On Jan 6, 1:59 am, "Andrew W" <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore:
for ye know not when the master of the house cometh,
at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
> <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
for ye know not when the master of the house cometh,
at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
DanielSan
Jan 6, 2012, 3:43:05 PM1/6/12
to
On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> That's not what happened on the cross.
Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> That's not what happened on the cross.
us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
Antares 531
Jan 6, 2012, 3:58:01 PM1/6/12
to
was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
has done for us.
Andrew W
Jan 6, 2012, 4:44:44 PM1/6/12
to
"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:je78hq$3gm$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca
Have you ever questioned anything? In this world you must question
everything.
news:je78hq$3gm$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca
> In article <je69ls$sj9$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Andrew W <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
>> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been
>> misled by the dark?
>> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god
>> figure. Only dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower
>> people. Do powerless beings need to be further disempowered?
>> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods?
>> The god got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic
>> subjugation.
>> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be
>> afraid of if he's all powerful?
>> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many
>> cases petty wrongs and errors?
>> Think about it.
>>
>
> Andrew W <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
>> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been
>> misled by the dark?
>> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god
>> figure. Only dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower
>> people. Do powerless beings need to be further disempowered?
>> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods?
>> The god got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic
>> subjugation.
>> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be
>> afraid of if he's all powerful?
>> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many
>> cases petty wrongs and errors?
>> Think about it.
>>
>
> Touch the nail scarred hands of Jesus and believe.
>
How? He's long gone.
>
Have you ever questioned anything? In this world you must question
everything.
idlehands
Jan 6, 2012, 6:25:07 PM1/6/12
to
Andrew W wrote:
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> cross) is a cult.
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup and
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
> cross) is a cult.
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
posting this is?
--
Father Haskell
Jan 6, 2012, 6:30:50 PM1/6/12
to
On Jan 6, 11:46 am, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> In article <je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew W <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> ><jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
Honestly, I would have used 1/2" lags and fender washers.
> In article <je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew W <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> ><jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
Andrew W
Jan 6, 2012, 6:33:26 PM1/6/12
to
"idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
To help Christians wake up to their religion.
news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
huge
Jan 6, 2012, 6:46:09 PM1/6/12
to
Be that as it may, the blood sacrifice question does seem like a
contradiction that should be answered with something more than the fact
that you don't want to be asked.
kni...@baawa.com
Jan 6, 2012, 8:26:27 PM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>has done for us.
isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
power?
You Bleater's are so annoying when it come to defining your Pixie.
One minute it's all powerful, the next it has limitations. If it has a
rule book, who wrote the rule book that the Pixie must follow?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
Antares 531
Jan 6, 2012, 8:48:18 PM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>
> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>
Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>
> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>
insight as to why God is restricted in these matters. Read this
information as an allegory wherein Job and Job's family represent the
true followers of God. Job's friends who came to comfort him during
his suffering represent the ordinary good (from a human perspective)
persons who aren't quite on track with God. Then, regard those who
killed Job's servants and robbed Job of his possessions as Satan's
followers. The key point here is that God agreed to back off and let
Lucifer Satan do a full, in depth workout with sin and rebellion to
learn all about it.
This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
to allow Lucifer/Satan to proceed with his exploration of sin and
rebellion. We are linked to this in that we must learn enough about
sin and rebellion during this mortal phase of our lives to assure God
that we will not ever want to go back and explore it any further, once
we've been granted immortality and absolute sovereignty.
Keep in mind that when Lucifer/Satan fell, he knew very little about
sin and rebellion. His curiosity overwhelmed him and God agreed to let
Lucifer/Satan have a go at exploring all the vagaries of sin and
rebellion. God realized that simply curtailing Lucifer/Satan's
activities in this area would not resolve the problem. That is, sooner
or later, each of God's created beings would be at the same level of
curiosity and compulsion to explore sin and rebellion.
Restricting our freedom to explore sin and rebellion, or intimidating
us into compliance would not have let us mature into fully sovereign
beings who can interact with God at His own level. This is the long
term goal.
>
>>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>>has done for us.
>
> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>power?
>
God DEFINITELY has limits. God can not lie. God can not embrace sin
>>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>>has done for us.
>
> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>power?
>
and rebellion. And many other such limits. But, all of God's limits
are those He has placed upon Himself.
idlehands
Jan 6, 2012, 9:15:18 PM1/6/12
to
Andrew W wrote:
> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>
>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>> cross) is a cult.
>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>
>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>> and posting this is?
>>
>
> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>
>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>> cross) is a cult.
>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>
>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>> and posting this is?
>>
>
> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
Why?
--
idlehands
Jan 6, 2012, 9:16:45 PM1/6/12
to
still cross-posted across multiple Christian newsgroups
I was just curious why
--
Seon Ferguson
Jan 6, 2012, 10:03:04 PM1/6/12
to
On 6/01/2012 1:50 PM, Andrew W wrote:
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
I'm not a Christian, young Earth creationists may be cultists but what's
> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
wrong with faith if it helps you be good to each other? I have heard
cases of people ending their drug addiction thanks to faith. So what is
wrong with that? Let people believe what they want, as long as they
don't force their fairy tales onto me. As the Dali Lama said "Just be good"
huge
Jan 6, 2012, 11:40:30 PM1/6/12
to
of the primitive mind to a question that challenges its belief is _NOT_
to produce an answer but to object to the question.
And you haven't produced an answer yet.
huge
Jan 6, 2012, 11:47:45 PM1/6/12
to
On 01/06/2012 09:03 PM, Seon Ferguson wrote:
> On 6/01/2012 1:50 PM, Andrew W wrote:
>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>> and he
>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a
>> cult.
>>
>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
> I'm not a Christian, young Earth creationists may be cultists but what's
> wrong with faith if it helps you be good to each other?
Oh, yes! Just _PRETEND_!
> On 6/01/2012 1:50 PM, Andrew W wrote:
>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>> and he
>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a
>> cult.
>>
>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>
> I'm not a Christian, young Earth creationists may be cultists but what's
> wrong with faith if it helps you be good to each other?
Just be hysterics who have regressed back into
the childhood of mankind and pretend. Stick
your heads into the ground so that the sticks in your butts
can wave in the wind.
Olrik
Jan 6, 2012, 11:48:16 PM1/6/12
to
scarred hands of Jesus".
Please.
Many thanks!
Olrik
Jan 6, 2012, 11:52:36 PM1/6/12
to
On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
> <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>
>>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>>
>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>>
> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> before dyeing
He turned blue?
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
> <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>
>>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>>
>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>>
> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> before dyeing
huge
Jan 6, 2012, 11:59:58 PM1/6/12
to
foreskinned me?" He was actually talking to his mohel, who had come
to see the show.
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 12:01:21 AM1/7/12
to
"idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 12:05:17 AM1/7/12
to
"idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
news:je89ue$kc0$1...@dont-email.me
That's why. Why would you ask? Maybe you are in a state of denial?
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 12:07:05 AM1/7/12
to
On 1/6/2012 9:01 PM, Andrew W wrote:
> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>
>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>>> and posting this is?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>
>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>
>> Why?
>>
>
> What dogma is that?
Maybe it's that Kevin Smith movie starring Jay and Silent Bob, Alan
> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>
>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>>> and posting this is?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>
>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>
>> Why?
>>
>
> What dogma is that?
Rickman, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and George Carlin (among others).
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 12:16:27 AM1/7/12
to
Andrew W wrote:
> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>
>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>
>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>
>> Why?
>>
>
> What dogma is that?
That Christianity is a cult
> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>
>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>
>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>
>> Why?
>>
>
> What dogma is that?
(Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a
particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to be
disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers)
To what purpose are you preaching this?
--
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 12:26:22 AM1/7/12
to
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference
to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing,
especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist,
with members often living outside of conventional society under the
direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person
usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and
that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
adjective
9. of or pertaining to a cult.
10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.
Seon Ferguson
Jan 7, 2012, 12:31:14 AM1/7/12
to
well why not let them have a good life? Just as I said as long as they
don't force it on us. Forget and let live, didnt Jebus say that
somewhere? Or was it Paul McCartney?
huge
Jan 7, 2012, 12:36:26 AM1/7/12
to
systems, courtrooms, or governments, and as long as they pay their
damn taxes like the rest of us instead of getting tax breaks, and as
long as they don't come to our front doors, and as long as they don't
cause legislators to pass blue laws. The list goes on.
Screw 'em. They should grow up.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Jan 7, 2012, 12:54:11 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
nail
scarred hands of Jesus".
My testimony
"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
nail
scarred hands of Jesus".
My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
raised on books that taught evolution
and why the Bible was wrong. My favorite
book was the The Glob_ by John O'Reilly, illustrated by
Walt Kelly of _Pogo_
, it was illustrated, and
showed an ameba that went through the evolutionary
stages to become man.
After college, I got a job with the city of
New York. It was the winter of 1968, and I
was staying in the Broadway Central Hotel,
now demolished. One Saturday night, I thought
I would get breakfast Sunday morning at the
Harri Krisna group, then on Second ave, NYC.
I liked the dancing and chanting, and the bowl
of oatmeal contained raisens, and was vey sweet.
I put the beads they use on a hardwood chair.
When the alarm rang Sunday morning, I washed
up and put in my contact lense. When I went to pick up
the beads on the chair, I could not find them. I
looked on the floor, but still couldn't find them.
A thought then came through my head that there
was a reason for this. So I went back to sleep.
Later a woman called whom I hadn't seen for a while.
She asked me to go to a new church she found with
her boyfriend. It was called the Climate of Faith, and it met
at the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn. They talked
a lot about following the glory cloud. When I got
back to my room later, I looked on the chair and the beads were there.
At lunch, I would sometimes go to St. Paul's Chapel
in NYC. Behind the altar at St. Paul's is a glory cloud.
At the time I didn't think to much about it.
I left the Climate of Faith after a while and told
myself, I didn't believe it.
In December, 1973, I was living on 6th st, near Ave B.
and the girl who sometimes stayed with me had left,
and I was lonely. So, I went to a Christian coffe shop
in the West Village, because I thought, you know Christians
by their love. I asked about a church, I could go to
and someone told me about a house church in the West Village.
I believe a Roger Fulton ran it. When I went to the
service, I didn't like it. After the service a man named Dick,
who I had never met before, came over to me. He asked me, if I
wanted to go to a New Years service in the apartment of
an Episcopal priest. I thought the Episcopalians wouldn't
be as crazy as the West Village Church.
I went there New Years Eve and found the girls to be nice.
The priest's parish was St. Paul's Chapel. I went to
his Bible studies, since the girls were nice. In one
study, he spoke of Genesis as if it was true. I asked
to speak to him privately in the future.
When I spoke to him, I said, we both have been to college,
you know Genesis is not true. He said, to me, "Scripture
doesn't lie."I thought to myself that is a tautology.
That night before I went to bed I picked up "Good News
for Modern Man". I just opened it and began to read in
I Corinthians, I came to where Paul said, "We vhave the
mind of Christ". I thought to myself, I don't believe it.
When I lied down, I saw a white light(I think it was a vision),
I heard the words, I am the Way, the Life, and the Resurrection.
The light went completly through me, and I realized I
had eternal life. I thought, now I know what it means,
to be born again
Since that time the Lord has given me a wife, 3 children,
four Grandchildren, and has been with me since then.
Pax Christi,
Jim
Olrik
Jan 7, 2012, 12:55:47 AM1/7/12
to
Oh...
;-)
Olrik
Jan 7, 2012, 12:57:40 AM1/7/12
to
Father Haskell
Jan 7, 2012, 1:00:00 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 6, 11:52 pm, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
> > <danielsan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
>
> >> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au>
> >> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> >>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> >>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> >>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
> >> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
> >> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
> > Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
> > was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> > ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> > free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> > domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> > Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
> > God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> > before dyeing
>
> He turned blue?
Well, it *was* Oestre.
>
> >>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> >>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> >>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> >>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
> >> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
> >> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
> > Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
> > was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> > ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> > free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> > domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> > Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
> > God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> > before dyeing
>
> He turned blue?
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 1:08:11 AM1/7/12
to
Olrik
Jan 7, 2012, 1:08:19 AM1/7/12
to
"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the nail
scarred hands of Jesus".
Seon Ferguson
Jan 7, 2012, 1:12:22 AM1/7/12
to
and stuff. And if you say it's my religion we're suppossed to respect
that belief. Well screw it, if it doesn't make sense I won't respect
that. And brainwashing children is bad, I went to church as a child and
was told what is true for 15 years or so. Now that I'm 28 I'm starting
to think for myself. Well I did that iin my 20's but it still had a hold
on me.
But as long as they keep it to themselves I still don't mind.
huge
Jan 7, 2012, 1:26:09 AM1/7/12
to
but Woo-Hoo!
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 1:28:37 AM1/7/12
to
--
huge
Jan 7, 2012, 1:30:58 AM1/7/12
to
Maybe he's just interested?
(Substitute anything you want for X.)
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 1:30:45 AM1/7/12
to
huge
Jan 7, 2012, 1:36:17 AM1/7/12
to
On 01/06/2012 11:57 PM, Olrik wrote:
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 1:37:44 AM1/7/12
to
"idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
news:je8kfd$t2k$1...@dont-email.me
and beyond.
I told you why already.
The Christian religion is outdated and backward and needs to be jettisoned.
Les Hellawell
Jan 7, 2012, 4:59:00 AM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>> nail
>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>>
>>
>> My testimony
>>
>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>> raised on books that taught evolution
It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>> nail
>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>>
>>
>> My testimony
>>
>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>> raised on books that taught evolution
I remember being taught all kinds of things but evolution
was not one of them but I guess I forget the subjects
that do not particularly interest me such as biology.
<snip uninteresting ramble>
>I asked:
>
>"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the nail
>scarred hands of Jesus".
>Thanks.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The county of broad Acres
Claire
Jan 7, 2012, 6:10:33 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 7, 4:48 am, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2012-01-06 11:46, The Doctor wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article<je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
> On 2012-01-06 11:46, The Doctor wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andrew W<remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
Claire
Jan 7, 2012, 6:05:23 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 6, 5:58 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> The Light That Was Dark:
> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
> could destroy his life.
>
> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
> to be.
>
> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
> Light That Was Dark
>
> Editorial Reviews
> The Light That Was Dark:
> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
> could destroy his life.
>
> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
> to be.
>
> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
> Light That Was Dark
>
> Review
> A captivating book ... The conclusion is absolutely riveting. In easy-
> to-read, laid-back style, Smith recounts his harrowing spiritual
> journey. --Discernment Ministries - Sarah Leslie - Spring 2005
>
> An amazing story about God's amazing grace. --Ingrid Schlueter, VCY
> America - CrossTalk Radio Program, 2005
>
> An important book. Authors like Smith provide a clarion call the
> church would be foolish to ignore. --Tim Challies Book Reviewer -
> Challies.com - May 2005
>
> The Church is being seduced by the same false teachings that has drawn
> many people into the New Age Movement. --Cutting Edge Ministries
>
> Warren and Joy's encounter with personal evil convinced them the Bible
> was the spiritual teaching that they could rely on. --Russ Wise,
> Author of A Course in Miracles, A Biblical Evaluation
>
> From the Publisher
> If you have read Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the
> Purpose Driven Church, then The Light That Was Dark is a must-read.
> Read the testimony of the man who saw the truth about Purpose Driven
> Life.
>
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> 44 of 44 people found the following review helpful:
> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
> alike.
>
> 5.0 out of 5 stars A LIFE THAT WAS DARK, April 25, 2006
> By L. DEBRUYN (Indianapolis) - (REAL NAME) This review is from: The
> Light That Was Dark: From the New Age to Amazing Grace (Paperback)
> For any persons who are considering involving themselves in New Age
> "spirituality"-which is really a very old spirituality-and might
> wonder what that spirituality is like and where it might take them,
> then Warren Smith's "The Light That Was Dark" is a must read.
>
> For others involved in the pursuit of alternative spirituality and,
> for whatever the reason, have grown uncomfortable with their
> participation in it, then they will identify with author's spiritual
> journey as he shows the way out.
>
> All readers though, will relate to the candor with which Warren
> reveals his experiences as a participant of the 60s and 70s counter
> culture. Readers will engage and be entertained by a wide variety of
> characters and ideas that the author encountered in his personal quest
> for spiritual meaning, during which time both he and his wife naively
> connected to what they thought would bring them spiritual power and
> freedom only to discover the reality of spiritual bondage.
>
> Once the book is engaged, readers will finish the book. As an Ivy
> League graduate, Warren writes well. I heartily recommend the book.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Light-That-Was-Dark-Amazing/dp/0976349213
Thanks Jim for the review, this does sound a really fascinating read.
I definitely want to check this one out! :-)
Claire
Jan 7, 2012, 6:09:24 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 6, 9:44 pm, "Andrew W" <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:je78hq$3gm$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca
> Have you ever questioned anything? In this world you must question
> everything.
True, but you must also genuinely seek answers if you want the truth.
Above all you must believe that there is a truth to seek and want to
know it with a sense of real longing. That is how I came to Christ as
a non-believer.
> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:je78hq$3gm$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
> > Andrew W <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
> >> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been
> >> misled by the dark?
> >> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god
> >> figure. Only dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower
> >> people. Do powerless beings need to be further disempowered?
> >> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods?
> >> The god got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic
> >> subjugation.
> >> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be
> >> afraid of if he's all powerful?
> >> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many
> >> cases petty wrongs and errors?
> >> Think about it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
> > Andrew W <remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
> >> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been
> >> misled by the dark?
> >> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god
> >> figure. Only dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower
> >> people. Do powerless beings need to be further disempowered?
> >> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods?
> >> The god got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic
> >> subjugation.
> >> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be
> >> afraid of if he's all powerful?
> >> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many
> >> cases petty wrongs and errors?
> >> Think about it.
>
> > Touch the nail scarred hands of Jesus and believe.
>
> How? He's long gone.
>
> Have you ever questioned anything? In this world you must question
> everything.
True, but you must also genuinely seek answers if you want the truth.
Above all you must believe that there is a truth to seek and want to
know it with a sense of real longing. That is how I came to Christ as
a non-believer.
Claire
Jan 7, 2012, 6:19:29 AM1/7/12
to
On Jan 7, 9:59 am, Les Hellawell <les_...@here.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
about God, and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
scientific information we need in Genesis. We have all the spiritual
information we need and do not have to understand everything to
understand the truth of creation. Last year he dug his old textbooks
out which covered the strongly positive influence of religion on the
development of science. Really amazing stuff!
> On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> >> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
> >> nail
> >> scarred hands of Jesus".
>
> >> My testimony
>
> >> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> >> raised on books that taught evolution
>
> It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>
> I remember being taught all kinds of things but evolution
> was not one of them but I guess I forget the subjects
> that do not particularly interest me such as biology.
>
I had a similar experience as Jim. My mother is a lapsed Catholic and
> >> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
> >> nail
> >> scarred hands of Jesus".
>
> >> My testimony
>
> >> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> >> raised on books that taught evolution
>
> It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>
> I remember being taught all kinds of things but evolution
> was not one of them but I guess I forget the subjects
> that do not particularly interest me such as biology.
>
my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
about God, and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
scientific information we need in Genesis. We have all the spiritual
information we need and do not have to understand everything to
understand the truth of creation. Last year he dug his old textbooks
out which covered the strongly positive influence of religion on the
development of science. Really amazing stuff!
Paul David Wright
Jan 7, 2012, 2:27:10 AM1/7/12
to
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:1cceg7dn3tsknccdn...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"
--
PDW
Check out my blog:
http://corneliusaddaptionproject.blogspot.com/
And my books:
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/pdwright42
news:1cceg7dn3tsknccdn...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>
>>The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>>Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>cross) is a cult.
>
>
>>
>>The Christian religion is a cult.
>>
>>Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>cross) is a cult.
>
> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
That's excatly what happend, liar.
>
--
PDW
Check out my blog:
http://corneliusaddaptionproject.blogspot.com/
And my books:
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/pdwright42
duke
Jan 7, 2012, 12:54:48 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>
>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>
>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>
>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>
>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
>Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
No, that's wrong. Would you like to try again?
>us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
duke
Jan 7, 2012, 12:59:42 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net>
wrote:
>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
That's a prayer. Psalms 22.
> He uttered these words just
>before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>separated from any of God's protection and power.
No man is protected by God. Everybody dies soon or later, of murder or cancer
or pestilence or abortion or old age.
> Jesus had to
>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>has done for us.
What he did was show us example of how God saves.
wrote:
>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
> He uttered these words just
>separated from any of God's protection and power.
No man is protected by God. Everybody dies soon or later, of murder or cancer
or pestilence or abortion or old age.
> Jesus had to
>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>has done for us.
What he did was show us example of how God saves.
duke
Jan 7, 2012, 1:00:42 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>
> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>
>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>
>>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>>has done for us.
>
> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>>has done for us.
>
>isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>power?
God lets you decide for yourself - an eternity with him in heave or an eternity
with satan in the fires.
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 1:11:47 PM1/7/12
to
So why do you feel your opinion should be imposed on others?
--
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 1:12:25 PM1/7/12
to
--
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 2:07:28 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters.
Please review language for some insight into why an omnipotent entity
is necessarily unlimited.
>This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
>to allow Lucifer/Satan
Lucifer and Satan aren't the same character - that's just a Christian
misunderstanding of the Hebrew Bible.
>God DEFINITELY has limits. God can not lie. God can not embrace sin
>and rebellion.
There's a difference between "can" and "chooses to". Learn your own
religion.
--
"Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a
monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize
it." - Robert Heinlein
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters.
Please review language for some insight into why an omnipotent entity
is necessarily unlimited.
>This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
>to allow Lucifer/Satan
Lucifer and Satan aren't the same character - that's just a Christian
misunderstanding of the Hebrew Bible.
>God DEFINITELY has limits. God can not lie. God can not embrace sin
>and rebellion.
There's a difference between "can" and "chooses to". Learn your own
religion.
--
"Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a
monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize
it." - Robert Heinlein
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 2:09:03 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 19:15:18 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>>> cross) is a cult.
>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>
>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>> and posting this is?
>>>
>>
>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>
>Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>
>Why?
Why are you coming to a clearly labeled NOT Christian newsgroup to
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>>> cross) is a cult.
>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>
>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>> and posting this is?
>>>
>>
>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>
>Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>
>Why?
discuss Christianity? (I know why, I'm just throwing your stupidity
back in your face.)
--
"Rise above principal and do what's right." - Joseph Heller
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 2:10:09 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 19:16:45 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote:
>huge wrote:
>>
>> Be that as it may, the blood sacrifice question does seem like a
>> contradiction that should be answered with something more than the
>> fact that you don't want to be asked.
>
>Didn't say I didn't want to be asked and regardless of the "1st group" it's
>still cross-posted across multiple Christian newsgroups
And you're still clearly crossposting it, ain'tcha, Twinkletoes?
--
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack
of confidence" - Doug McLeod
h.c0m> wrote:
>huge wrote:
>> On 01/06/2012 05:25 PM, idlehands wrote:
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>>> cross) is a cult.
>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>
>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>> and posting this is?
>>>
>>>
>> It thread was posted to alt.atheism as the first header.
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>> and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a
>>>> cross) is a cult.
>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>
>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian newsgroup
>>> and posting this is?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Be that as it may, the blood sacrifice question does seem like a
>> contradiction that should be answered with something more than the
>> fact that you don't want to be asked.
>
>Didn't say I didn't want to be asked and regardless of the "1st group" it's
>still cross-posted across multiple Christian newsgroups
And you're still clearly crossposting it, ain'tcha, Twinkletoes?
--
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack
of confidence" - Doug McLeod
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 2:21:24 PM1/7/12
to
What's your point?
--
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 2:49:54 PM1/7/12
to
"Claire" <claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:c3133795-99cb-40c6...@h13g2000vbn.googlegroups.com
That's exactly what I do.
I find that its Christians who don't really seek the truth. They just assume
that all or most of the truth in the cosmos is in their Bibles and that the
holy spirit will magically fill in the gaps.
You say you found Christ. You're not the only one, but your notion
disempowers you and makes Christ a hero character that just saves people and
has to be worshipped more than followed.
news:c3133795-99cb-40c6...@h13g2000vbn.googlegroups.com
I find that its Christians who don't really seek the truth. They just assume
that all or most of the truth in the cosmos is in their Bibles and that the
holy spirit will magically fill in the gaps.
You say you found Christ. You're not the only one, but your notion
disempowers you and makes Christ a hero character that just saves people and
has to be worshipped more than followed.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 3:08:35 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 12:21:24 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
I'm not the one who's complaining about it.
--
"I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony
of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the
doings of mankind." - Albert Einstein
--
"I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony
of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the
doings of mankind." - Albert Einstein
Antares 531
Jan 7, 2012, 3:40:52 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:07:28 -0500, Colanth <col...@pern.invalid>
wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters.
>
>Please review language for some insight into why an omnipotent entity
>is necessarily unlimited.
>
If an omnipotent God could not place restrictions upon Himself, would
He really be omnipotent?
it. I think most people would know what was meant.
CAN NOT lie. If He could lie, his power of sovereign choice would be
compromised.
wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters.
>
>Please review language for some insight into why an omnipotent entity
>is necessarily unlimited.
>
He really be omnipotent?
>
>>This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
>>to allow Lucifer/Satan
>
>Lucifer and Satan aren't the same character - that's just a Christian
>misunderstanding of the Hebrew Bible.
>
This is a generally accepted equivalence. I did not intend to contest
>>This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
>>to allow Lucifer/Satan
>
>Lucifer and Satan aren't the same character - that's just a Christian
>misunderstanding of the Hebrew Bible.
>
it. I think most people would know what was meant.
>
>>God DEFINITELY has limits. God can not lie. God can not embrace sin
>>and rebellion.
>
>There's a difference between "can" and "chooses to". Learn your own
>religion.
>
If God is omnipotent and if God chooses not to lie, for example, God
>>God DEFINITELY has limits. God can not lie. God can not embrace sin
>>and rebellion.
>
>There's a difference between "can" and "chooses to". Learn your own
>religion.
>
CAN NOT lie. If He could lie, his power of sovereign choice would be
compromised.
Free Lunch
Jan 7, 2012, 3:55:44 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:12:25 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote in alt.atheism:
Atheism is the lack of belief in any gods. How does that count as a
cult?
h.c0m> wrote in alt.atheism:
cult?
JohnN
Jan 7, 2012, 3:42:22 PM1/7/12
to
On Jan 6, 11:52 pm, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jesus Smurf.?
JohnN
> On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
> > <danielsan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
>
> >> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au>
> >> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> >>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> >>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
>
> >>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>
> >>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
> >>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>
> >>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>
> >> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
> >> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
>
> >> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
> >> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
> > Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
> > was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> > ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> > free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> > domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> > was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
> > ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
> > free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
> > domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>
> > Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
> > God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> > before dyeing
>
> He turned blue?
> > God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
> > before dyeing
>
Jesus Smurf.?
JohnN
John Baker
Jan 7, 2012, 4:01:48 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 12:21:24 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
You Christers are almost invariably the ones who *start* the
crossposting, yet, typical of the hypocrites the majority of you are,
you're also almost invariably the first ones to whine about it.
That clear things up for ya, Sport?
crossposting, yet, typical of the hypocrites the majority of you are,
you're also almost invariably the first ones to whine about it.
That clear things up for ya, Sport?
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 4:37:13 PM1/7/12
to
On 1/7/2012 9:54 AM, duke wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan<daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>
>>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>>
>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
> No, that's wrong. Would you like to try again?
>
So, Jesus isn't God?
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan<daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God and he
>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>
>>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>>
>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>
> No, that's wrong. Would you like to try again?
>
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 4:38:22 PM1/7/12
to
On 1/7/2012 10:00 AM, duke wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>> <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>> way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>>> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>> before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>> separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>> confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>>> has done for us.
>>
>> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>> isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>> power?
>
> God lets you decide for yourself - an eternity with him in heave or an eternity
> with satan in the fires.
Yet God knows precisely what choice you will make before even Genesis
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>> <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>> way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>>> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>> before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>> separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>> confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what Jesus
>>> has done for us.
>>
>> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>> isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>> power?
>
> God lets you decide for yourself - an eternity with him in heave or an eternity
> with satan in the fires.
1:1, so you were doomed before you began.
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 4:39:10 PM1/7/12
to
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 5:10:17 PM1/7/12
to
Antares 531
Jan 7, 2012, 5:18:42 PM1/7/12
to
If I had a time capsule that would let me fast-forward in time and
observe everything you do the rest of your life, then return to the
present with all this knowledge of your future behavior, would this
put me in control of your decision making processes?
The flaw in many people's thinking on this is that they don't or can't
work their minds outside the space-time that we are able to perceive.
God operates outside our space-time and his temporal scale, eternity,
is not the same as our temporal scale, time.
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 5:43:48 PM1/7/12
to
> The flaw in many people's thinking on this is that they don't or can't
> work their minds outside the space-time that we are able to perceive.
> God operates outside our space-time and his temporal scale, eternity,
> is not the same as our temporal scale, time.
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 5:51:52 PM1/7/12
to
That clears it up for me
--
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 5:56:12 PM1/7/12
to
<jwshe...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:50685a4d-44f2-47fa...@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com
> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
> nail
> book was the The Glob_ by John O'Reilly, illustrated by
> Walt Kelly of _Pogo_
> , it was illustrated, and
> showed an ameba that went through the evolutionary
> stages to become man.
> After college, I got a job with the city of
> New York. It was the winter of 1968, and I
> was staying in the Broadway Central Hotel,
> now demolished. One Saturday night, I thought
> I would get breakfast Sunday morning at the
> Harri Krisna group, then on Second ave, NYC.
> I liked the dancing and chanting, and the bowl
> of oatmeal contained raisens, and was vey sweet.
> I put the beads they use on a hardwood chair.
> When the alarm rang Sunday morning, I washed
> up and put in my contact lense. When I went to pick up
> the beads on the chair, I could not find them. I
> looked on the floor, but still couldn't find them.
> A thought then came through my head that there
> was a reason for this. So I went back to sleep.
> Later a woman called whom I hadn't seen for a while.
> She asked me to go to a new church she found with
> her boyfriend. It was called the Climate of Faith, and it met
> at the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn. They talked
> a lot about following the glory cloud. When I got
> back to my room later, I looked on the chair and the beads were there.
> At lunch, I would sometimes go to St. Paul's Chapel
> in NYC. Behind the altar at St. Paul's is a glory cloud.
> At the time I didn't think to much about it.
> I left the Climate of Faith after a while and told
> myself, I didn't believe it.
> In December, 1973, I was living on 6th st, near Ave B.
> and the girl who sometimes stayed with me had left,
> and I was lonely. So, I went to a Christian coffe shop
> in the West Village, because I thought, you know Christians
> by their love. I asked about a church, I could go to
> and someone told me about a house church in the West Village.
> I believe a Roger Fulton ran it. When I went to the
> service, I didn't like it. After the service a man named Dick,
> who I had never met before, came over to me. He asked me, if I
> wanted to go to a New Years service in the apartment of
> an Episcopal priest. I thought the Episcopalians wouldn't
> be as crazy as the West Village Church.
> I went there New Years Eve and found the girls to be nice.
> The priest's parish was St. Paul's Chapel. I went to
> his Bible studies, since the girls were nice. In one
> study, he spoke of Genesis as if it was true. I asked
> to speak to him privately in the future.
> When I spoke to him, I said, we both have been to college,
> you know Genesis is not true. He said, to me, "Scripture
> doesn't lie."I thought to myself that is a tautology.
> That night before I went to bed I picked up "Good News
> for Modern Man". I just opened it and began to read in
> I Corinthians, I came to where Paul said, "We vhave the
> mind of Christ". I thought to myself, I don't believe it.
> When I lied down, I saw a white light(I think it was a vision),
> I heard the words, I am the Way, the Life, and the Resurrection.
> The light went completly through me, and I realized I
> had eternal life. I thought, now I know what it means,
> to be born again
> Since that time the Lord has given me a wife, 3 children,
> four Grandchildren, and has been with me since then.
>
You didn't find a wife and have children the same way everyone else does, by
their own self-responsible choices?
Like someone else said, you sound like you had a bit of a narrow education.
But don't worry, a large number of population do too unfortunately. That's
one reason why religions like Christianity and Islam are so popular.
news:50685a4d-44f2-47fa...@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com
> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
> nail
> scarred hands of Jesus".
>
>
> My testimony
>
> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> raised on books that taught evolution
> and why the Bible was wrong. My favorite
>
>
> My testimony
>
> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> raised on books that taught evolution
> book was the The Glob_ by John O'Reilly, illustrated by
> Walt Kelly of _Pogo_
> , it was illustrated, and
> showed an ameba that went through the evolutionary
> stages to become man.
> After college, I got a job with the city of
> New York. It was the winter of 1968, and I
> was staying in the Broadway Central Hotel,
> now demolished. One Saturday night, I thought
> I would get breakfast Sunday morning at the
> Harri Krisna group, then on Second ave, NYC.
> I liked the dancing and chanting, and the bowl
> of oatmeal contained raisens, and was vey sweet.
> I put the beads they use on a hardwood chair.
> When the alarm rang Sunday morning, I washed
> up and put in my contact lense. When I went to pick up
> the beads on the chair, I could not find them. I
> looked on the floor, but still couldn't find them.
> A thought then came through my head that there
> was a reason for this. So I went back to sleep.
> Later a woman called whom I hadn't seen for a while.
> She asked me to go to a new church she found with
> her boyfriend. It was called the Climate of Faith, and it met
> at the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn. They talked
> a lot about following the glory cloud. When I got
> back to my room later, I looked on the chair and the beads were there.
> At lunch, I would sometimes go to St. Paul's Chapel
> in NYC. Behind the altar at St. Paul's is a glory cloud.
> At the time I didn't think to much about it.
> I left the Climate of Faith after a while and told
> myself, I didn't believe it.
> In December, 1973, I was living on 6th st, near Ave B.
> and the girl who sometimes stayed with me had left,
> and I was lonely. So, I went to a Christian coffe shop
> in the West Village, because I thought, you know Christians
> by their love. I asked about a church, I could go to
> and someone told me about a house church in the West Village.
> I believe a Roger Fulton ran it. When I went to the
> service, I didn't like it. After the service a man named Dick,
> who I had never met before, came over to me. He asked me, if I
> wanted to go to a New Years service in the apartment of
> an Episcopal priest. I thought the Episcopalians wouldn't
> be as crazy as the West Village Church.
> I went there New Years Eve and found the girls to be nice.
> The priest's parish was St. Paul's Chapel. I went to
> his Bible studies, since the girls were nice. In one
> study, he spoke of Genesis as if it was true. I asked
> to speak to him privately in the future.
> When I spoke to him, I said, we both have been to college,
> you know Genesis is not true. He said, to me, "Scripture
> doesn't lie."I thought to myself that is a tautology.
> That night before I went to bed I picked up "Good News
> for Modern Man". I just opened it and began to read in
> I Corinthians, I came to where Paul said, "We vhave the
> mind of Christ". I thought to myself, I don't believe it.
> When I lied down, I saw a white light(I think it was a vision),
> I heard the words, I am the Way, the Life, and the Resurrection.
> The light went completly through me, and I realized I
> had eternal life. I thought, now I know what it means,
> to be born again
> Since that time the Lord has given me a wife, 3 children,
> four Grandchildren, and has been with me since then.
>
You didn't find a wife and have children the same way everyone else does, by
their own self-responsible choices?
Like someone else said, you sound like you had a bit of a narrow education.
But don't worry, a large number of population do too unfortunately. That's
one reason why religions like Christianity and Islam are so popular.
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 6:10:16 PM1/7/12
to
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:112hg7hhf3n0fbs0p...@4ax.com
Typical options given by cults.
news:112hg7hhf3n0fbs0p...@4ax.com
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>> <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His
>>> dying was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>> way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>>> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>> before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>> separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>> confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what
>>> Jesus has done for us.
>>
>> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>> isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>> power?
>
> God lets you decide for yourself - an eternity with him in heave or
> an eternity with satan in the fires.
>
Only the two extremes? Nothing in between?
>
>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>> <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His
>>> dying was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>> way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>>> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>> before dyeing, giving us a clear understanding that He was being
>>> separated from any of God's protection and power. Jesus had to
>>> confront Lucifer/Satan just as we humans will if we reject what
>>> Jesus has done for us.
>>
>> So this god of yours has limits. It can't do certain things and
>> isn't omnipotent. Does your god read a rule book to determine it's
>> power?
>
> God lets you decide for yourself - an eternity with him in heave or
> an eternity with satan in the fires.
>
Typical options given by cults.
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 6:42:21 PM1/7/12
to
"idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
news:jea1t4$aek$1...@dont-email.me
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:je8kfd$t2k$1...@dont-email.me
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:je8kfd$t2k$1...@dont-email.me
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What dogma is that?
>>>
>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>
>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or
>>> a particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not
>>> to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or
>>> believers)
>>> To what purpose are you preaching this?
>>>
>>
>> I don't do dogma, I do research and study to find the truth about the
>> world and beyond.
>>
>> I told you why already.
>> The Christian religion is outdated and backward and needs to be
>> jettisoned.
>
> In your opinion and based on whatever research you chose to read.
>
> So why do you feel your opinion should be imposed on others?
>
Its not just my opinion. Countless spiritual researchers around the world
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What dogma is that?
>>>
>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>
>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or
>>> a particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not
>>> to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or
>>> believers)
>>> To what purpose are you preaching this?
>>>
>>
>> I don't do dogma, I do research and study to find the truth about the
>> world and beyond.
>>
>> I told you why already.
>> The Christian religion is outdated and backward and needs to be
>> jettisoned.
>
> In your opinion and based on whatever research you chose to read.
>
> So why do you feel your opinion should be imposed on others?
>
are learning about true spirituality.
Did you think I just read one article before coming here?
I'm trying to help you guys get past the old false Judeo/Hebrew type blood
sacrifice, scapegoat, and jealous and vengeful god dogmas.
Do you really still believe that an all knowing and all wise Creator can be
jealous and vengeful and be offended by his flawed little creations which he
made flawed?
And would he just callously threaten to extinguish them or torture them for
eternity if they don't perform perfectly?
Come on now. The Wizard of Oz was better thought out than that.
Maybe Christianity is more on par with Jack and the bean stalk etc. in its
beliefs about an angry god figure.
Basics:
Christianity disempowers (subjugates) the individual to an ancient angry god
figure.
True spirituality on the other hand empowers and frees.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:07:07 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:09:24 -0800 (PST), Claire
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
If you looked in the Bible, you found Paul, not Jesus. Christianity
isn't Jesus, it's Paul.
--
"My feeling is, quite simply, that if there is a God, He has done such
a bad job that he isn't worth discussing." - Isaac Asimov
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
isn't Jesus, it's Paul.
--
"My feeling is, quite simply, that if there is a God, He has done such
a bad job that he isn't worth discussing." - Isaac Asimov
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:12:18 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 09:59:00 +0000, Les Hellawell <les...@here.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> nail
Especially since he was educated in the New York City school system
(as was I). I can't recall any teaching about "evolution" until
college. His "witnessing" seems an equal mix of wishful thinking, bad
memory and lies. IOW, the typical Christian baloney.
--
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the
state of facts and evidence." - John Adams
wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>>On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> nail
>>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>>>
>>>
>>> My testimony
>>>
>>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>>> raised on books that taught evolution
>
>It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>>>
>>>
>>> My testimony
>>>
>>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>>> raised on books that taught evolution
>
Especially since he was educated in the New York City school system
(as was I). I can't recall any teaching about "evolution" until
college. His "witnessing" seems an equal mix of wishful thinking, bad
memory and lies. IOW, the typical Christian baloney.
--
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the
state of facts and evidence." - John Adams
Antares 531
Jan 7, 2012, 7:15:03 PM1/7/12
to
do have some questions.
I grew up on a ranch in northwestern Oklahoma, back in the World War 2
time frame. My grandfather told stories of those early-days settlers,
from time to time. One of his stories that I vividly remember was
that, when they were financially able, they built barbed wire fences
around their pastures. These barbed wire fences were supported on
cedar fence posts, which, when dry, were very effective as electric
insulators.
As this story goes on, many of those early days settlers lost some of
their livestock when these animals grouped up in a fence corner as a
severe thunderstorm came upon them. Sometimes lightning would strike
the barbed wire fence and the fence wires would carry the lightning
electrical current to the place where the livestock had bunched up. If
they were close to the barbed wire fence it was not uncommon for a
number of them to be killed.
Those early days settlers very quickly got a solution worked out for
this problem. They would place a grounding wire from the horizontal
barbed wires down into the soil. One of these grounding wires every
100 yards or so would greatly diminish the chance of any of their
livestock being electrocuted by lightning.
Now, my question is, was God punishing these early days settlers for
some reason? Or, were they simply ignoring the fact that lightning is
a part of God's natural setup, and if they didn't learn about it then
take the necessary precautions, they were likely to suffer a loss?
To me this doesn't indicate a vindictive God. It indicates that those
humans were a bit short on their understanding and compliance with
God's natural setup.
Similarly, if we ignore God's natural setup and go our own way in
other matters, we may encounter many experiences like this, or even
death itself. And none of these would be a matter of God being
vindictive or showing his wrath.
In summary, God created this universe/multiverse and set it up with
natural laws. If we don't learn enough about these natural laws to
avoid any serious conflicts with them we can't brush it off by saying
that God was being vindictive toward us or God was being wrathful
toward us.
I wouldn't even consider walking over the rim of the Grand Canyon, at
least without a paragliding pack. The fall wouldn't likely hurt me,
but that sudden stop at the bottom of the fall would probably burst me
wide open. And, this would not be a matter of God expressing vengeance
or wrath toward me. It would be the result of stupidity on my part,
don't you think?
Gordon
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:18:57 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:19:29 -0800 (PST), Claire
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I had a similar experience as Jim. My mother is a lapsed Catholic and
>my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
>about God
Why? Isn't God powerful enough to make sure you know about him
without help?
>and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
>think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
>scientific information we need in Genesis.
Especially since 99.99999% of the "science" in Genesis is totally
wrong.
> We have all the spiritual information we need
I sure do. In. Out. In. Out. (As a teacher who was well educated,
you DO know that "spirit" means nothing more than "breath", right?
THAT'S what your Bible says that your god breathed into Adam - breath.
Those "scientific" stone agers thought that what distinguishes life
from non-life - like clay - is that life breathes. Oh, and "Adam"? In
the original Hebrew, it's "Adom" - mankind. Mankind invented an
individual.)
> and do not have to understand everything to understand the truth of creation.
You at least have to understand that it really happened. That means
actual evidence (not just words in a book).
Oh - there is none. Not a smidge. Not a sub-atomic particle of
actual (IOW objective) evidence of any creation.
> Last year he dug his old textbooks
>out which covered the strongly positive influence of religion on the
>development of science. Really amazing stuff!
Really valuable stuff too, since they must have been printed in the
19th century.
--
"The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers." - Diderot
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I had a similar experience as Jim. My mother is a lapsed Catholic and
>my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
>about God
Why? Isn't God powerful enough to make sure you know about him
without help?
>and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
>think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
>scientific information we need in Genesis.
Especially since 99.99999% of the "science" in Genesis is totally
wrong.
> We have all the spiritual information we need
I sure do. In. Out. In. Out. (As a teacher who was well educated,
you DO know that "spirit" means nothing more than "breath", right?
THAT'S what your Bible says that your god breathed into Adam - breath.
Those "scientific" stone agers thought that what distinguishes life
from non-life - like clay - is that life breathes. Oh, and "Adam"? In
the original Hebrew, it's "Adom" - mankind. Mankind invented an
individual.)
> and do not have to understand everything to understand the truth of creation.
You at least have to understand that it really happened. That means
actual evidence (not just words in a book).
Oh - there is none. Not a smidge. Not a sub-atomic particle of
actual (IOW objective) evidence of any creation.
> Last year he dug his old textbooks
>out which covered the strongly positive influence of religion on the
>development of science. Really amazing stuff!
Really valuable stuff too, since they must have been printed in the
19th century.
--
"The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers." - Diderot
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:20:23 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:10:33 -0800 (PST), Claire
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 4:48 am, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>news:2051980e-b7c0-4eb5...@y12g2000yqc.googlegroups.com
>> >>> The Light That Was Dark:
>> >>> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
>> >>> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>>
>> >>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> >>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> >>> alike.
>>
>> >>> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
>> >>> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
>> >>> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
>> >>> could destroy his life.
>>
>> >>> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
>> >>> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
>> >>> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
>> >>> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
>> >>> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
>> >>> to be.
>>
>> >>> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
>> >>> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
>> >>> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
>> >>> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
>> >>> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
>> >>> Light That Was Dark
IOW we have to believe before we ... uh, believe.
I know 7 year olds who have outgrown that.
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 4:48 am, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 2012-01-06 11:46, The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article<je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
>> > Andrew W<remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article<je69ls$sj...@dont-email.me>,
>> > Andrew W<remove_ajwer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >>news:2051980e-b7c0-4eb5...@y12g2000yqc.googlegroups.com
>> >>> The Light That Was Dark:
>> >>> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
>> >>> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>>
>> >>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> >>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> >>> alike.
>>
>> >>> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
>> >>> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
>> >>> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
>> >>> could destroy his life.
>>
>> >>> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
>> >>> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
>> >>> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
>> >>> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
>> >>> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
>> >>> to be.
>>
>> >>> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
>> >>> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
>> >>> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
>> >>> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
>> >>> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
>> >>> Light That Was Dark
>>
>> >> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
>> >> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been misled
>> >> by the dark?
>> >> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god figure. Only
>> >> dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower people. Do powerless beings
>> >> need to be further disempowered?
>> >> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods? The god
>> >> got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic subjugation.
>> >> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be afraid
>> >> of if he's all powerful?
>> >> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many cases
>> >> petty wrongs and errors?
>> >> Think about it.
>>
>> >> How would you know if you had the true Christ?
>> >> How do you know that you as Christians aren't the ones who have been misled
>> >> by the dark?
>> >> Christianity is about subjugation to a jealous and vengeful god figure. Only
>> >> dark forces subjugate and use fear to disempower people. Do powerless beings
>> >> need to be further disempowered?
>> >> What happened when Adam and Eve took the fruit and became as gods? The god
>> >> got angry and threatened death. That's quite despotic subjugation.
>> >> Why would an all powerful Creator need to do that? What would he be afraid
>> >> of if he's all powerful?
>> >> Why would he need a human blood sacrifice (Jesus) to pay for in many cases
>> >> petty wrongs and errors?
>> >> Think about it.
>>
>> >> --
>> >> No man becomes a slave until he ceases to be his own master.
>> >> Christianity - the religion of subjugation.
>>
>> > Touch the nail scarred hands of Jesus and believe.
>> >> No man becomes a slave until he ceases to be his own master.
>> >> Christianity - the religion of subjugation.
>>
>>
>> Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the nail
>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>
>I think he was talking metaphorically there!
>> Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the nail
>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>
IOW we have to believe before we ... uh, believe.
I know 7 year olds who have outgrown that.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:25:41 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:05:23 -0800 (PST), Claire
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 5:58 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>> The Light That Was Dark:
>> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
>> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>>
>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> alike.
>>
>> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
>> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
>> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
>> could destroy his life.
>>
>> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
>> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
>> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
>> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
>> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
>> to be.
>>
>> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
>> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
>> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
>> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
>> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
>> Light That Was Dark
>>
>> Editorial Reviews
>> Review
>> A captivating book ... The conclusion is absolutely riveting. In easy-
>> to-read, laid-back style, Smith recounts his harrowing spiritual
>> journey. --Discernment Ministries - Sarah Leslie - Spring 2005
>>
>> An amazing story about God's amazing grace. --Ingrid Schlueter, VCY
>> America - CrossTalk Radio Program, 2005
>>
>> An important book. Authors like Smith provide a clarion call the
>> church would be foolish to ignore. --Tim Challies Book Reviewer -
>> Challies.com - May 2005
>>
>> The Church is being seduced by the same false teachings that has drawn
>> many people into the New Age Movement. --Cutting Edge Ministries
>>
>> Warren and Joy's encounter with personal evil convinced them the Bible
>> was the spiritual teaching that they could rely on. --Russ Wise,
>> Author of A Course in Miracles, A Biblical Evaluation
>>
>> From the Publisher
>> If you have read Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the
>> Purpose Driven Church, then The Light That Was Dark is a must-read.
>> Read the testimony of the man who saw the truth about Purpose Driven
>> Life.
>> 5.0 out of 5 stars A LIFE THAT WAS DARK, April 25, 2006
>> By L. DEBRUYN (Indianapolis) - (REAL NAME) This review is from: The
>> Light That Was Dark: From the New Age to Amazing Grace (Paperback)
>> For any persons who are considering involving themselves in New Age
>> "spirituality"-which is really a very old spirituality-and might
>> wonder what that spirituality is like and where it might take them,
>> then Warren Smith's "The Light That Was Dark" is a must read.
>>
>> For others involved in the pursuit of alternative spirituality and,
>> for whatever the reason, have grown uncomfortable with their
>> participation in it, then they will identify with author's spiritual
>> journey as he shows the way out.
>>
>> All readers though, will relate to the candor with which Warren
>> reveals his experiences as a participant of the 60s and 70s counter
>> culture. Readers will engage and be entertained by a wide variety of
>> characters and ideas that the author encountered in his personal quest
>> for spiritual meaning, during which time both he and his wife naively
>> connected to what they thought would bring them spiritual power and
>> freedom only to discover the reality of spiritual bondage.
>>
>> Once the book is engaged, readers will finish the book. As an Ivy
>> League graduate, Warren writes well. I heartily recommend the book.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Light-That-Was-Dark-Amazing/dp/0976349213
>
>Thanks Jim for the review, this does sound a really fascinating read.
>I definitely want to check this one out! :-)
It figures that you'd find total hogwash "fascinating".
--
"I drank WHAT?????" - Socrates
<claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 5:58 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>> The Light That Was Dark:
>> From the New Age to Amazing Grace [Paperback]
>> Warren B. Smith (Author)
>>
>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> alike.
>>
>> A riveting testimony of a man who thought the gods of the New Age were
>> leading him towards light and truth until his shocking discovery that
>> the light he was following was actually darkness, a darkness that
>> could destroy his life.
>>
>> Led down a yellow brick road by pied piper spirits, I had, with the
>> best intentions, landed in a metaphysical New Age where the Christ
>> proclaimed was not the real Christ at all. A well-orchestrated and
>> exquisitely timed series of supernatural synchronistic experiences had
>> convinced me that my involvement in alternative spirituality was meant
>> to be.
>>
>> Following the signs and wonders of deceptive spirits, I had jumped
>> through my spiritual hoops with almost flawless precision. As Joy and
>> I both had unknowingly plugged into the spirit world, we never
>> realized that most of the voices we were listening to were part of the
>> deception the real Jesus had warned about. --Warren Smith, from The
>> Light That Was Dark
>>
>> Review
>> A captivating book ... The conclusion is absolutely riveting. In easy-
>> to-read, laid-back style, Smith recounts his harrowing spiritual
>> journey. --Discernment Ministries - Sarah Leslie - Spring 2005
>>
>> An amazing story about God's amazing grace. --Ingrid Schlueter, VCY
>> America - CrossTalk Radio Program, 2005
>>
>> An important book. Authors like Smith provide a clarion call the
>> church would be foolish to ignore. --Tim Challies Book Reviewer -
>> Challies.com - May 2005
>>
>> The Church is being seduced by the same false teachings that has drawn
>> many people into the New Age Movement. --Cutting Edge Ministries
>>
>> Warren and Joy's encounter with personal evil convinced them the Bible
>> was the spiritual teaching that they could rely on. --Russ Wise,
>> Author of A Course in Miracles, A Biblical Evaluation
>>
>> From the Publisher
>> If you have read Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the
>> Purpose Driven Church, then The Light That Was Dark is a must-read.
>> Read the testimony of the man who saw the truth about Purpose Driven
>> Life.
>>
>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> alike.
>>
>> 44 of 44 people found the following review helpful:
>> With New Age beliefs knocking at virtually every church in the world,
>> The Light That Was Dark is a must-read for Christians and seekers
>> alike.
>>
>> 5.0 out of 5 stars A LIFE THAT WAS DARK, April 25, 2006
>> By L. DEBRUYN (Indianapolis) - (REAL NAME) This review is from: The
>> Light That Was Dark: From the New Age to Amazing Grace (Paperback)
>> For any persons who are considering involving themselves in New Age
>> "spirituality"-which is really a very old spirituality-and might
>> wonder what that spirituality is like and where it might take them,
>> then Warren Smith's "The Light That Was Dark" is a must read.
>>
>> For others involved in the pursuit of alternative spirituality and,
>> for whatever the reason, have grown uncomfortable with their
>> participation in it, then they will identify with author's spiritual
>> journey as he shows the way out.
>>
>> All readers though, will relate to the candor with which Warren
>> reveals his experiences as a participant of the 60s and 70s counter
>> culture. Readers will engage and be entertained by a wide variety of
>> characters and ideas that the author encountered in his personal quest
>> for spiritual meaning, during which time both he and his wife naively
>> connected to what they thought would bring them spiritual power and
>> freedom only to discover the reality of spiritual bondage.
>>
>> Once the book is engaged, readers will finish the book. As an Ivy
>> League graduate, Warren writes well. I heartily recommend the book.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Light-That-Was-Dark-Amazing/dp/0976349213
>
>Thanks Jim for the review, this does sound a really fascinating read.
>I definitely want to check this one out! :-)
It figures that you'd find total hogwash "fascinating".
--
"I drank WHAT?????" - Socrates
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:26:57 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 00:55:47 -0500, Olrik <olri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2012-01-06 23:59, huge wrote:
>> On 01/06/2012 10:52 PM, Olrik wrote:
>>> On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
>>>> <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew
>>>>>> W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It was a slight mistranslation; he actually said "why have you
>> foreskinned me?" He was actually talking to his mohel, who had come
>> to see the show.
>
>Man, that must have bloody sucked!
>
>Oh...
>
>;-)
The mohel was gay? Wow, talk about being suited for your profession.
--
Darwin's Law of Carcinogens: Cancer cures smoking.
>On 2012-01-06 23:59, huge wrote:
>> On 01/06/2012 10:52 PM, Olrik wrote:
>>> On 2012-01-06 15:58, Antares 531 wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:43:05 -0800, DanielSan
>>>> <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/2012 9:38 AM, duke wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +1100, "Andrew
>>>>>> W"<remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>>>> God and he
>>>>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross)
>>>>>>> is a cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>>>> God and he
>>>>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross)
>>>>>>> is a cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not what happened on the cross.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>>>>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. What happened on the cross is that God killed himself to protect
>>>>> us from himself and then he came back to life, then went up to heaven.
>>>>>
>>>> Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>>> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>>
>>>> was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>> ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>> free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>> domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus had to go it alone in this. Recall his words of despair, "My
>>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>>> before dyeing
>>>
>>> He turned blue?
>>>> God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He uttered these words just
>>>> before dyeing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It was a slight mistranslation; he actually said "why have you
>> foreskinned me?" He was actually talking to his mohel, who had come
>> to see the show.
>
>Man, that must have bloody sucked!
>
>Oh...
>
>;-)
The mohel was gay? Wow, talk about being suited for your profession.
--
Darwin's Law of Carcinogens: Cancer cures smoking.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:29:21 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 22:16:27 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> What dogma is that?
>That Christianity is a cult
>(Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a
>particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to be
>disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers)
Cult: A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a
particular figure or object.
So Christianity IS a cult, and a fact isn't dogma.
--
"If I am right, then [religious fundamentalists] will not go to
Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will
not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites." - Isaac Asimov
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> What dogma is that?
>That Christianity is a cult
>(Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a
>particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to be
>disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers)
particular figure or object.
So Christianity IS a cult, and a fact isn't dogma.
--
"If I am right, then [religious fundamentalists] will not go to
Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will
not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites." - Isaac Asimov
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:30:10 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:12:25 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote:
>DanielSan wrote:
>> On 1/6/2012 10:28 PM, idlehands wrote:
>>> DanielSan wrote:
h.c0m> wrote:
>DanielSan wrote:
>> On 1/6/2012 10:28 PM, idlehands wrote:
>>> DanielSan wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2012 9:16 PM, idlehands wrote:
>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>>>> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>>>> "idlehands"<hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans
>>>>>>>>>> offended God and he must be paid back with a human blood
>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans
>>>>>>>>>> offended God and he must be paid back with a human blood
>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>>>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>>>>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>>>>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What dogma is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>>>
>>>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion,
>>>>> or a particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and
>>>>> not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the
>>>>> practitioners or believers)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>>>
>>>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion,
>>>>> or a particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and
>>>>> not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the
>>>>> practitioners or believers)
>>>>
>>>> cult: [kuhlt] noun
>>>> 1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with
>>>> reference to its rites and ceremonies.
>>>> 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing,
>>>> especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness
>>>> cult. 3. the object of such devotion.
>>>> 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
>>>> person, ideal, etc.
>>>> 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
>>>> centering around their sacred symbols.
>>>> 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
>>>> extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
>>>> under the direction of a charismatic leader.
>>>> 7. the members of such a religion or sect.
>>>> 8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a
>>>> person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of
>>>> disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or
>>>> unscientific. adjective
>>>> 9. of or pertaining to a cult.
>>>> 10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't answer the question
>>
>> This is showing what a cult is and how Christianity could apply.
>
>Atheism could apply as well
Atheism isn't a religion and it's not worship.
>>>> 1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with
>>>> reference to its rites and ceremonies.
>>>> 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing,
>>>> especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness
>>>> cult. 3. the object of such devotion.
>>>> 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
>>>> person, ideal, etc.
>>>> 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
>>>> centering around their sacred symbols.
>>>> 6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
>>>> extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
>>>> under the direction of a charismatic leader.
>>>> 7. the members of such a religion or sect.
>>>> 8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a
>>>> person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of
>>>> disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or
>>>> unscientific. adjective
>>>> 9. of or pertaining to a cult.
>>>> 10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't answer the question
>>
>> This is showing what a cult is and how Christianity could apply.
>
>Atheism could apply as well
--
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of
ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will
always avail themselves for their own purposes." - Thomas Jefferson to
Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:31:07 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:11:47 -0700, "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:je8kfd$t2k$1...@dont-email.me
h.c0m> wrote:
>Andrew W wrote:
>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What dogma is that?
>>>
>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>
>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a
>>> particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to
>>> be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or
>>> believers)
>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>> news:je89ro$k2l$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>> "idlehands" <hidefromu@nospam h u s h.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:je7vsl$u69$1...@dont-email.me
>>>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended
>>>>>>>> God and he must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus
>>>>>>>> on a cross) is a cult.
>>>>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your reason for coming to a clearly labelled Christian
>>>>>>> newsgroup and posting this is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To help Christians wake up to their religion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me you are more interested in preaching your dogma
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What dogma is that?
>>>
>>> That Christianity is a cult
>>>
>>> (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a
>>> particular group or organization[1]. It is authoritative and not to
>>> be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or
>>> believers)
>>> To what purpose are you preaching this?
>>>
>>
>> I don't do dogma, I do research and study to find the truth about the
>> world and beyond.
>>
>> I told you why already.
>> The Christian religion is outdated and backward and needs to be
>> jettisoned.
>
>In your opinion and based on whatever research you chose to read.
>
>So why do you feel your opinion should be imposed on others?
Maybe it's the other way around, and he feels that the opinions of
>>>
>>
>> I don't do dogma, I do research and study to find the truth about the
>> world and beyond.
>>
>> I told you why already.
>> The Christian religion is outdated and backward and needs to be
>> jettisoned.
>
>In your opinion and based on whatever research you chose to read.
>
>So why do you feel your opinion should be imposed on others?
others shouldn't be imposed on him.
--
A much-discussed alternative to homogeneous big-bang nucleosynthesis
has been the first-order quark-hadron phase-transition-inspired
inhomogeneous model.
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:39:22 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:31:14 +1100, Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/01/2012 3:47 PM, huge wrote:
>> Oh, yes! Just _PRETEND_!
>> Just be hysterics who have regressed back into
>> the childhood of mankind and pretend. Stick
>> your heads into the ground so that the sticks in your butts
>> can wave in the wind.
>Hey I never said pretend, we know it's BS but if BS helps other people
>well why not let them have a good life?
Pretending helps children. When we grow up we face reality (that's
what growing up means - it's not living a certain number of years).
Anyone who wants to continue to remain a child is free to do so, but
can't expect to be treated as an adult.
> Just as I said as long as they don't force it on us.
They do by various means. If you ever come down with a bacterial
infection that can't be treated by antibiotics, it's because of that
"God will provide" attitude of children. They pretend, we have the
pretense thrust on us.
That's why not. You don't let the inmates run the asylum.
--
"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his
Reason." - Martin Luther
wrote:
>On 7/01/2012 3:47 PM, huge wrote:
>> Oh, yes! Just _PRETEND_!
>> Just be hysterics who have regressed back into
>> the childhood of mankind and pretend. Stick
>> your heads into the ground so that the sticks in your butts
>> can wave in the wind.
>Hey I never said pretend, we know it's BS but if BS helps other people
>well why not let them have a good life?
Pretending helps children. When we grow up we face reality (that's
what growing up means - it's not living a certain number of years).
Anyone who wants to continue to remain a child is free to do so, but
can't expect to be treated as an adult.
> Just as I said as long as they don't force it on us.
They do by various means. If you ever come down with a bacterial
infection that can't be treated by antibiotics, it's because of that
"God will provide" attitude of children. They pretend, we have the
pretense thrust on us.
That's why not. You don't let the inmates run the asylum.
--
"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his
Reason." - Martin Luther
Colanth
Jan 7, 2012, 7:40:41 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:12:22 +1100, Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/01/2012 4:36 PM, huge wrote:
>>>>> what's
>>>>> wrong with faith if it helps you be good to each other?
>> systems, courtrooms, or governments, and as long as they pay their
>> damn taxes like the rest of us instead of getting tax breaks, and as
>> long as they don't come to our front doors, and as long as they don't
>> cause legislators to pass blue laws. The list goes on.
>>
>> Screw 'em. They should grow up.
>
>I'm with you, religions seem to get special treatment like tax breaks
>and stuff. And if you say it's my religion we're suppossed to respect
>that belief. Well screw it, if it doesn't make sense I won't respect
>that. And brainwashing children is bad, I went to church as a child and
>was told what is true for 15 years or so. Now that I'm 28 I'm starting
>to think for myself. Well I did that iin my 20's but it still had a hold
>on me.
>
>But as long as they keep it to themselves I still don't mind.
But they can't. It affects you in many ways you aren't aware it's
affecting you.
--
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president,
and that one word is `to be prepared'." - Vice President Dan Quayle,
12/6/89
wrote:
>On 7/01/2012 4:36 PM, huge wrote:
>> On 01/06/2012 11:31 PM, Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>> On 7/01/2012 3:47 PM, huge wrote:
>>>> On 01/06/2012 09:03 PM, Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>> On 7/01/2012 3:47 PM, huge wrote:
>>>>> On 6/01/2012 1:50 PM, Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>>>> and he
>>>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a
>>>>>> cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a Christian, young Earth creationists may be cultists but
>>>>>> The Christian religion is a cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Because any group of people that claim that humans offended God
>>>>>> and he
>>>>>> must be paid back with a human blood sacrifice (Jesus on a cross) is a
>>>>>> cult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny since Christianity also banned human blood sacrifices.
>>>>>
>>>>> what's
>>>>> wrong with faith if it helps you be good to each other?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, yes! Just _PRETEND_!
>>>> Just be hysterics who have regressed back into
>>>> the childhood of mankind and pretend. Stick
>>>> your heads into the ground so that the sticks in your butts
>>>> can wave in the wind.
>>>
>>> Hey I never said pretend, we know it's BS but if BS helps other people
>>> well why not let them have a good life? Just as I said as long as they
>>>>
>>>> Oh, yes! Just _PRETEND_!
>>>> Just be hysterics who have regressed back into
>>>> the childhood of mankind and pretend. Stick
>>>> your heads into the ground so that the sticks in your butts
>>>> can wave in the wind.
>>>
>>> Hey I never said pretend, we know it's BS but if BS helps other people
>>> don't force it on us.
>>
>> ...or their poor children or wives or old folks. Or our educational
>>
>> systems, courtrooms, or governments, and as long as they pay their
>> damn taxes like the rest of us instead of getting tax breaks, and as
>> long as they don't come to our front doors, and as long as they don't
>> cause legislators to pass blue laws. The list goes on.
>>
>> Screw 'em. They should grow up.
>
>I'm with you, religions seem to get special treatment like tax breaks
>and stuff. And if you say it's my religion we're suppossed to respect
>that belief. Well screw it, if it doesn't make sense I won't respect
>that. And brainwashing children is bad, I went to church as a child and
>was told what is true for 15 years or so. Now that I'm 28 I'm starting
>to think for myself. Well I did that iin my 20's but it still had a hold
>on me.
>
>But as long as they keep it to themselves I still don't mind.
But they can't. It affects you in many ways you aren't aware it's
affecting you.
--
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president,
and that one word is `to be prepared'." - Vice President Dan Quayle,
12/6/89
kni...@baawa.com
Jan 7, 2012, 8:12:23 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>
>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>
>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters. Read this
>information as an allegory wherein Job and Job's family represent the
>true followers of God.
The whole Job debacle portrays your god as a mean, psychopathic
monster. It teams up with the devil (hello....) and tortures some
stupid smuck to test his faith. Doesn't your god know everything?
Omniscience is the key word here.
>
>This clearly shows that God placed restrictions upon Himself in order
>to allow Lucifer/Satan to proceed with his exploration of sin and
>rebellion.
Sick. Let give the retard kid across the street a loaded gun and
let him explore loud gunshots.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
Antares 531
Jan 7, 2012, 8:21:29 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:12:23 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>>><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>>
>>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>>>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>>
>>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters. Read this
>>information as an allegory wherein Job and Job's family represent the
>>true followers of God.
>
> The whole Job debacle portrays your god as a mean, psychopathic
>monster. It teams up with the devil (hello....) and tortures some
>stupid smuck to test his faith. Doesn't your god know everything?
>Omniscience is the key word here.
>
Had you been on God's advisory committee at the time these decisions
>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:48:18 -0600, Antares 531
><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:26:27 -0800, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:58:01 -0600, Antares 531
>>><gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jesus' death on the cross was symbolic. The real reason for His dying
>>>>was so He could enter Lucifer/Satan's domain as the soul of an
>>>>ordinary deceased human, then make some major adjustments such as to
>>>>free the rest of us from ever having to enter Lucifer/Satan's
>>>>domain...unless we reject Jesus' provision for our salvation.
>>>>
>>> Ridicules. Why would a deity have such outlandish 'conditions'? The
>>>way you talk is supporting a limited deity. If there was one.
>>>
>>Please review the first few chapters of the Book of Job for some
>>insight as to why God is restricted in these matters. Read this
>>information as an allegory wherein Job and Job's family represent the
>>true followers of God.
>
> The whole Job debacle portrays your god as a mean, psychopathic
>monster. It teams up with the devil (hello....) and tortures some
>stupid smuck to test his faith. Doesn't your god know everything?
>Omniscience is the key word here.
>
were being made, how would you have advised Him to handle this. He
wants us to all mature into beings who can be trusted with immortality
and ABSOLUTE sovereignty. That is to say, God could not simply
pre-program us into puppets, nor would intimidating us into compliance
have gotten the desired end result.
The only way we can be matured into the reliable beings God wants us
to become is to get a hands-on, get down and get dirty, education that
will give us enough understanding of all the vagaries of sin and
rebellion that we need in order to assure God that we will NEVER, EVER
want to go back and explore sin and rebellion any further, once we've
been granted immortality and ABSOLUTE sovereignty.
Gordon
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 8:24:08 PM1/7/12
to
"Colanth" <col...@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:dgnhg7h2cr4b5r7em...@4ax.com
True.
The parts where Jesus allegedly talks are hard to understand so mostly
Paul's writings have been taught instead.
news:dgnhg7h2cr4b5r7em...@4ax.com
The parts where Jesus allegedly talks are hard to understand so mostly
Paul's writings have been taught instead.
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 8:37:08 PM1/7/12
to
"Claire" <claireo...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:337c2680-ae0f-4e63...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com
> On Jan 7, 9:59 am, Les Hellawell <les_...@here.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> nail
>> was not one of them but I guess I forget the subjects
>> that do not particularly interest me such as biology.
>
You mean their version of God.
Since no human can understand what God and the spirit world are, all we
humans can ever really teach is a version of God.
>
and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
> think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
> scientific information we need in Genesis. We have all the spiritual
> information we need
>
I don't agree. This world is very much in darkness.
If we did have all the spiritual information we need then we wouldn't have
so many religions all arguing as to what God is about and what he wants from
us.
Even Christians can't agree with each other half the time.
The Bible is vague and short on many crucial items. Without constant
interpretation and reinterpretation and Bible studies you'd be nowhere.
>
and do not have to understand everything to
> understand the truth of creation. Last year he dug his old textbooks
news:337c2680-ae0f-4e63...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com
> On Jan 7, 9:59 am, Les Hellawell <les_...@here.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:08:19 -0500, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2012-01-07 00:54, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>>>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> "Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>>>> On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik<olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> nail
>>>> scarred hands of Jesus".
>>
>>>> My testimony
>>
>>>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>>>> raised on books that taught evolution
>>
>> It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>>
>> I remember being taught all kinds of things but evolution
>>
>>>> My testimony
>>
>>>> My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
>>>> raised on books that taught evolution
>>
>> It seems a somewhat narrow education?
>>
>> was not one of them but I guess I forget the subjects
>> that do not particularly interest me such as biology.
>>
>
> I had a similar experience as Jim. My mother is a lapsed Catholic and
> my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
> about God,
>
> I had a similar experience as Jim. My mother is a lapsed Catholic and
> my father is an agnostic. As children she wanted to make sure we knew
>
You mean their version of God.
Since no human can understand what God and the spirit world are, all we
humans can ever really teach is a version of God.
>
and he wanted to make sure we knew about Science. I don't
> think the two are at odds but then I don’t think we have all the
> information we need
>
I don't agree. This world is very much in darkness.
If we did have all the spiritual information we need then we wouldn't have
so many religions all arguing as to what God is about and what he wants from
us.
Even Christians can't agree with each other half the time.
The Bible is vague and short on many crucial items. Without constant
interpretation and reinterpretation and Bible studies you'd be nowhere.
>
and do not have to understand everything to
> out which covered the strongly positive influence of religion on the
> development of science. Really amazing stuff!
> development of science. Really amazing stuff!
kni...@baawa.com
Jan 7, 2012, 8:45:28 PM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:18:42 -0600, Antares 531
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:38:22 -0800, DanielSan
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:38:22 -0800, DanielSan
>>Yet God knows precisely what choice you will make before even Genesis
>>1:1, so you were doomed before you began.
>>
>I've posted this response before, but maybe a re-run is needed.
>
>If I had a time capsule that would let me fast-forward in time and
>observe everything you do the rest of your life, then return to the
>present with all this knowledge of your future behavior, would this
>put me in control of your decision making processes?
>
Yes. Of course.
>>1:1, so you were doomed before you began.
>>
>I've posted this response before, but maybe a re-run is needed.
>
>If I had a time capsule that would let me fast-forward in time and
>observe everything you do the rest of your life, then return to the
>present with all this knowledge of your future behavior, would this
>put me in control of your decision making processes?
>
>The flaw in many people's thinking on this is that they don't or can't
>work their minds outside the space-time that we are able to perceive.
space/time. I'm sure Stephen Hawking will be interested in your
hypothesis.
>God operates outside our space-time and his temporal scale, eternity,
>is not the same as our temporal scale, time.
your magic pixie to make the delusion work. You are no doubt a master
of Apologetic. That branch of superstition that makes up all the
'interpretations' and has a ready, pat answer, for all sorts of
awkward questions.
Why did your god drown the Earth, including infants?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
kni...@baawa.com
Jan 7, 2012, 8:59:59 PM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 21:54:11 -0800 (PST), jwshe...@satx.rr.com
So you were brainwashed from birth to believe in a god and were
predisposed to 'visions' before you were able to learn critical
thinking skills.
You, like all believers, suffer from cognitive discordance. Your
reality is full of pink elephants, angels and garden faerie.
No lord gave you anything. You did it yourself. Time to man up and
face reality.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
wrote:
>On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>nail
>scarred hands of Jesus".
>
>
>My testimony
>
>My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> raised on books that taught evolution
>On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, Olrik <olrik...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Please tell us the circumstances where you actually touched "the
>nail
>scarred hands of Jesus".
>
>
>My testimony
>
>My parents were ex-Catholics, and I was
> raised on books that taught evolution
predisposed to 'visions' before you were able to learn critical
thinking skills.
You, like all believers, suffer from cognitive discordance. Your
reality is full of pink elephants, angels and garden faerie.
No lord gave you anything. You did it yourself. Time to man up and
face reality.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
DanielSan
Jan 7, 2012, 9:02:56 PM1/7/12
to
visions of heaven.
Andrew W
Jan 7, 2012, 9:09:41 PM1/7/12
to
"Antares 531" <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:5nmhg7tm1759jvdb1...@4ax.com
Partly I agree with you, but the Bible does state that God is jealous,
vengeful and wrathful.
Much of what's in the Bible therefore needs to be tossed out as outdated
fear based ancient dogma.
Unfortunately now we can't because the dopey conservative and controlling
Catholic church canonised it all.
>
> Similarly, if we ignore God's natural setup and go our own way in
> other matters, we may encounter many experiences like this, or even
> death itself. And none of these would be a matter of God being
> vindictive or showing his wrath.
>
> In summary, God created this universe/multiverse and set it up with
> natural laws. If we don't learn enough about these natural laws to
> avoid any serious conflicts with them we can't brush it off by saying
> that God was being vindictive toward us or God was being wrathful
> toward us.
>
Unfortunately we aren't given enough usable information about the laws.
>
> I wouldn't even consider walking over the rim of the Grand Canyon, at
> least without a paragliding pack. The fall wouldn't likely hurt me,
> but that sudden stop at the bottom of the fall would probably burst me
> wide open. And, this would not be a matter of God expressing vengeance
> or wrath toward me. It would be the result of stupidity on my part,
> don't you think?
>
Like I said, in part I agree.
news:5nmhg7tm1759jvdb1...@4ax.com
vengeful and wrathful.
Much of what's in the Bible therefore needs to be tossed out as outdated
fear based ancient dogma.
Unfortunately now we can't because the dopey conservative and controlling
Catholic church canonised it all.
>
> Similarly, if we ignore God's natural setup and go our own way in
> other matters, we may encounter many experiences like this, or even
> death itself. And none of these would be a matter of God being
> vindictive or showing his wrath.
>
> In summary, God created this universe/multiverse and set it up with
> natural laws. If we don't learn enough about these natural laws to
> avoid any serious conflicts with them we can't brush it off by saying
> that God was being vindictive toward us or God was being wrathful
> toward us.
>
>
> I wouldn't even consider walking over the rim of the Grand Canyon, at
> least without a paragliding pack. The fall wouldn't likely hurt me,
> but that sudden stop at the bottom of the fall would probably burst me
> wide open. And, this would not be a matter of God expressing vengeance
> or wrath toward me. It would be the result of stupidity on my part,
> don't you think?
>
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 11:33:23 PM1/7/12
to
simply live your life as you believe?
--
idlehands
Jan 7, 2012, 11:35:22 PM1/7/12
to
--
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