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Presenting: douchebag of the month, dentist Walter Palmer
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Massive Unibrow
Jul 28, 2015, 3:18:18 PM7/28/15
to
It's possible this innocent, big-game bagging Minnesotan dentist was
tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33695872
Conservationists in Zimbabwe say the man who paid $50,000 (£32,000) to
kill the country's most famous lion was an American dentist.
The Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force (ZCTF) named the tourist as Walter
Palmer from Minnesota and said he shot the animal with a crossbow and
rifle.
The lion, named Cecil, was later skinned and beheaded, the ZCTF said.
Two Zimbabwean men who were involved face poaching charges because the
group did not have a hunting permit.
The men - a professional hunter and a farm owner - could be sentenced
to up to 15 years in prison in Zimbabwe if they are found guilty. They
are due to appear in court on Wednesday.
It is unclear whether Mr Palmer has already returned to the US but
Zimbabwean police confirmed that he could also face poaching charges.
"We arrested two people and now we are looking for Palmer in connection
with the same case," police spokeswoman Charity Charamba told reporters.
Authorities had previously said that a Spanish tourist may have been
behind the killing.
Angry backlash
Mr Palmer told the Minnesota Star Tribune that "some things are being
misreported". He said he would release a statement later on Tuesday.
A spokesman for the dentist told the Guardian that Mr Palmer thinks "he
might have shot that lion that has been referred to as Cecil".
But he said the American "had the proper legal permits and he had hired
several professional guides".
The dental practice run by Mr Palmer was closed on Tuesday and a note
was placed on the door referring visitors to a public relations firm,
according to local press.
The practice's Facebook page was removed from the site after being
besieged by angry comments and the company website was also taken down.
tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33695872
Conservationists in Zimbabwe say the man who paid $50,000 (£32,000) to
kill the country's most famous lion was an American dentist.
The Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force (ZCTF) named the tourist as Walter
Palmer from Minnesota and said he shot the animal with a crossbow and
rifle.
The lion, named Cecil, was later skinned and beheaded, the ZCTF said.
Two Zimbabwean men who were involved face poaching charges because the
group did not have a hunting permit.
The men - a professional hunter and a farm owner - could be sentenced
to up to 15 years in prison in Zimbabwe if they are found guilty. They
are due to appear in court on Wednesday.
It is unclear whether Mr Palmer has already returned to the US but
Zimbabwean police confirmed that he could also face poaching charges.
"We arrested two people and now we are looking for Palmer in connection
with the same case," police spokeswoman Charity Charamba told reporters.
Authorities had previously said that a Spanish tourist may have been
behind the killing.
Angry backlash
Mr Palmer told the Minnesota Star Tribune that "some things are being
misreported". He said he would release a statement later on Tuesday.
A spokesman for the dentist told the Guardian that Mr Palmer thinks "he
might have shot that lion that has been referred to as Cecil".
But he said the American "had the proper legal permits and he had hired
several professional guides".
The dental practice run by Mr Palmer was closed on Tuesday and a note
was placed on the door referring visitors to a public relations firm,
according to local press.
The practice's Facebook page was removed from the site after being
besieged by angry comments and the company website was also taken down.
MajorOz
Jul 29, 2015, 11:46:44 PM7/29/15
to
But....hey.....who ever thought social media fostered reason ?
Cindy Wells
Jul 30, 2015, 12:10:23 AM7/30/15
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On 7/29/2015 10:46 PM, MajorOz wrote:
<snip of insults about "exotic animal hunter" >
The facts are pretty clear. The hunter hired guides/location for the
exotic animal hunt. At minimum, he was an idiot who didn't consider if
his guides were poachers. Based on his previous illegal kill in the
U.S., I don't think that was the case. He probably was very willing to
poach a lion if it shortened the time to get his trophy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lion-killer-walter-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226
has the details of the felony back in 2006.
> Emotion is so useful....especially in the absence of facts.
>
> But....hey.....who ever thought social media fostered reason ?
>
Cindy Wells
(I take a dim view of trophy hunting anyway. Hunting to fill a freezer
makes sense; discarding the meat doesn't.)
<snip of insults about "exotic animal hunter" >
The facts are pretty clear. The hunter hired guides/location for the
exotic animal hunt. At minimum, he was an idiot who didn't consider if
his guides were poachers. Based on his previous illegal kill in the
U.S., I don't think that was the case. He probably was very willing to
poach a lion if it shortened the time to get his trophy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lion-killer-walter-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226
has the details of the felony back in 2006.
> Emotion is so useful....especially in the absence of facts.
>
> But....hey.....who ever thought social media fostered reason ?
>
(I take a dim view of trophy hunting anyway. Hunting to fill a freezer
makes sense; discarding the meat doesn't.)
Kevin C
Jul 30, 2015, 7:11:20 AM7/30/15
to
On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 12:10:23 AM UTC-4, Cindy Wells wrote:
> The facts are pretty clear. The hunter hired guides/location for the
> exotic animal hunt. At minimum, he was an idiot who didn't consider if
> his guides were poachers. Based on his previous illegal kill in the
> U.S., I don't think that was the case. He probably was very willing to
> poach a lion if it shortened the time to get his trophy.
What does a poacher look like, Cindy? They don't go around wearing poacher tags. Is the real issue that he shot a particular lion, or that he was hunting lions at all?
> The facts are pretty clear. The hunter hired guides/location for the
> exotic animal hunt. At minimum, he was an idiot who didn't consider if
> his guides were poachers. Based on his previous illegal kill in the
> U.S., I don't think that was the case. He probably was very willing to
> poach a lion if it shortened the time to get his trophy.
Kevin C
Jul 30, 2015, 7:12:44 AM7/30/15
to
On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 12:10:23 AM UTC-4, Cindy Wells wrote:
> (I take a dim view of trophy hunting anyway. Hunting to fill a freezer
> makes sense; discarding the meat doesn't.)
BTW, once upon a time in Africa, a kill usually resulted in the locals getting the meat. This is from decades old information, so have no idea what's the current status.
> makes sense; discarding the meat doesn't.)
Tim Merrigan
Jul 30, 2015, 7:15:15 AM7/30/15
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Cindy Wells
Jul 30, 2015, 8:46:30 AM7/30/15
to
guaranteed that he'd get a lion. That is not realistic except in canned
hunts (critter raised for release) or poaching. This guy could have
checked a map and found how close they were to the reserve (with modern
GPS). Similarly, he shouldn't have accepted the guides dragging a
carcass to bring a lion nearby.
Most honest game hunters now they might not see a target even if they go
out every day in the season. (Many of our hay customers do hunt deer.)
Waiting for a critter to wander by as it looks for food/shelter is a lot
different than intentionally leading it with the one-time offer of free
food right to you've set up to shoot.
Cindy Wells
(I can't find a page similar to the KDWPT (wildlife, parks, and tourism)
ones for hunting laws for Zimbabwe. However, you aren't allowed to hunt
on the National Parks/official reserves. Some lions do wander off the
reserve on their own; luring them out with a carcass is not the same thing.)
Cindy Wells
Jul 30, 2015, 8:49:40 AM7/30/15
to
poaching.
Cindy Wells
(with the head and hide removed and head "hidden")
Kevin C
Jul 30, 2015, 4:07:41 PM7/30/15
to
On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 8:46:30 AM UTC-4, Cindy Wells wrote:
> They may not wear a name tag with "Poacher". However, I suspect they
> guaranteed that he'd get a lion. That is not realistic except in canned
> hunts (critter raised for release) or poaching. This guy could have
> checked a map and found how close they were to the reserve (with modern
> GPS). Similarly, he shouldn't have accepted the guides dragging a
> carcass to bring a lion nearby.
>
> Most honest game hunters now they might not see a target even if they go
> out every day in the season. (Many of our hay customers do hunt deer.)
> Waiting for a critter to wander by as it looks for food/shelter is a lot
> different than intentionally leading it with the one-time offer of free
> food right to you've set up to shoot.
>
> Cindy Wells
> (I can't find a page similar to the KDWPT (wildlife, parks, and tourism)
> ones for hunting laws for Zimbabwe. However, you aren't allowed to hunt
> on the National Parks/official reserves. Some lions do wander off the
> reserve on their own; luring them out with a carcass is not the same thing.)
Hunting lions over a kill is not unusual. Read _The Maneaters of Tsavo_, (which is in public domain), or check out old safari accounts.
> They may not wear a name tag with "Poacher". However, I suspect they
> guaranteed that he'd get a lion. That is not realistic except in canned
> hunts (critter raised for release) or poaching. This guy could have
> checked a map and found how close they were to the reserve (with modern
> GPS). Similarly, he shouldn't have accepted the guides dragging a
> carcass to bring a lion nearby.
>
> Most honest game hunters now they might not see a target even if they go
> out every day in the season. (Many of our hay customers do hunt deer.)
> Waiting for a critter to wander by as it looks for food/shelter is a lot
> different than intentionally leading it with the one-time offer of free
> food right to you've set up to shoot.
>
> Cindy Wells
> (I can't find a page similar to the KDWPT (wildlife, parks, and tourism)
> ones for hunting laws for Zimbabwe. However, you aren't allowed to hunt
> on the National Parks/official reserves. Some lions do wander off the
> reserve on their own; luring them out with a carcass is not the same thing.)
BTW, there's a difference between a guided hunt and sitting with your hunkers in a deer stand. That said, a family friend didn't have much problem bagging an elk on a guided hunt, or bagging the local whitetails. Now, if it had been *me* going out, odds are (based on experience) I'd come back empty. He,apparently, knows his stuff, or knows it a lot better than I do, which probably isn't saying much.
Come to think of it, another family friend doesn't seem to have much of a problem, and at least once had a _Sports Afield_ writer hunting with him.
Given some description of guides in the US, I don't think it would be all that obvious to spot a poacher. You certainly can't ID a night hunter around here unless you saw him or her in the act.* Nor would I expect a hunter who trusted his guides to haul out a topo map and GPS every half hour or so. It's easy to play could have/would have/should have, but right now it just looks like a virtual village mob out to get the dentist.
*We had a problem with night hunters once. My dad's solution was to take the bottom plow and throw up a double fire break, with the dirt piled between two ditches. Even from the cab of a pick-up it just looked like a single ditch fire break. Cross it, though, and the truck gets caught with its wheels spinning in the air. Just before implementation, the adjacent property changed hands, and the night hunter problem vanished.
Cindy Wells
Jul 30, 2015, 5:25:16 PM7/30/15
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On 7/30/2015 3:07 PM, Kevin C wrote:
> BTW, there's a difference between a guided hunt and sitting with your hunkers in a deer stand. That said, a family friend didn't have much problem bagging an elk on a guided hunt, or bagging the local whitetails. Now, if it had been *me* going out, odds are (based on experience) I'd come back empty. He,apparently, knows his stuff, or knows it a lot better than I do, which probably isn't saying much.
>
>
One of my neighbors works with his brothers and does guided hunts, for
> BTW, there's a difference between a guided hunt and sitting with your hunkers in a deer stand. That said, a family friend didn't have much problem bagging an elk on a guided hunt, or bagging the local whitetails. Now, if it had been *me* going out, odds are (based on experience) I'd come back empty. He,apparently, knows his stuff, or knows it a lot better than I do, which probably isn't saying much.
>
>
values of "guide". He can guarantee the kill in some spots since one
brother raises elk and deer behind a 10' fence. Their other hunting
spots with food plots are successful but don't include a guaranteed
kill. (Watch some of the TV hunting shows produced by the guiding
companies. They will often end with a "we got lucky and got the kill"
disclaimer to avoid their future customers suing if they don't get their
animal. I usually only see this ending, as I find watching sports shows
boring.)
Cindy Wells
(We know something about the success because they discard some carcass
parts in their yard. Even if my dogs don't leave the yard to go after
the bones, the coyotes will bring them over to and leave the excess.
There's two problems with that. One) the dogs don't want to give up
their prize to come inside. Two) The bones (skulls particularly) damage
the mower blades (including on the hay mowers).)
Fred Brown
Jul 30, 2015, 7:42:29 PM7/30/15
to
"MajorOz" <ozm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8423c6b-e17e-44cd...@googlegroups.com...
lion has caused.
"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed
all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker
in Zimbabwe in an interview with Reuters. "What is so special about this
one?"
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/30/team-obama-vows-justice-for-cecil-the-lion/
Don Bruder
Jul 30, 2015, 8:05:18 PM7/30/15
to
In article <55bab664$0$27426$bb4e...@newscene.com>,
My thoughts exactly - It's a lion (or, more accurately, it used to be a
lion - it's now a skinned out, decapitated pile of rotting meat). Big
fat hairy stinking deal.
Yet seemingly the whole damned world wants to crucify the guy for it.
My thoughts to all and sundry who are screaming for his blood: Pull on
your big-girl panties and get a fucking life!
--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
"Fred Brown" <fred...@nowherenohow.com> wrote:
> "MajorOz" <ozm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8423c6b-e17e-44cd...@googlegroups.com...
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:18:18 PM UTC-5, Massive Unibrow wrote:
> > It's possible this innocent, big-game bagging Minnesotan dentist was
> > tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
> > to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
> > into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
> > pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
> > the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
> >
> >
> > http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33695872
> >
> > Conservationists in Zimbabwe say the man who paid $50,000 (?32,000) to
> "MajorOz" <ozm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8423c6b-e17e-44cd...@googlegroups.com...
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:18:18 PM UTC-5, Massive Unibrow wrote:
> > It's possible this innocent, big-game bagging Minnesotan dentist was
> > tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
> > to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
> > into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
> > pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
> > the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
> >
> >
> > http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33695872
> >
lion - it's now a skinned out, decapitated pile of rotting meat). Big
fat hairy stinking deal.
Yet seemingly the whole damned world wants to crucify the guy for it.
My thoughts to all and sundry who are screaming for his blood: Pull on
your big-girl panties and get a fucking life!
--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
Gary Chanson
Jul 30, 2015, 11:44:20 PM7/30/15
to
--
- Gary Chanson
Don Bruder
Jul 31, 2015, 1:35:04 AM7/31/15
to
In article <uvednU19vKuPcifI...@supernews.com>,
Pull on your... Oh, never mind. I'm more likely to be able to lick my
way through 30 yards of reinforced concrete than get raving loons to
think rationally.
way through 30 yards of reinforced concrete than get raving loons to
think rationally.
Fred Brown
Jul 31, 2015, 8:22:12 AM7/31/15
to
"Don Bruder" <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:mpee0v$akv$1...@dont-email.me...
time on the issues that affect our daily lives.
Locals can't understand US fuss over dead lion, killed on a regular basis
there
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ken-shepherd/2015/07/30/reuters-zimbabweans-bewildered-fuss-over-cecil-lion
Media devotes 30 minutes, one second to Cecil
Planned Parenthood baby parts scandal gets 11 minutes
13 seconds
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nb-staff/2015/07/31/oreilly-cites-very-accurate-mrc-numbers-planned-parenthood-lion
Obama administration to investigate lion shooting
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/obama-admin-get-bottom-cecil-lion
Apparently the US state dept has strong armed Zimbabwe officials
to demand the extradition of lion shooter Dr Palmer
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/world/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-dentist/index.html
Fred Brown
Jul 31, 2015, 8:25:01 AM7/31/15
to
"Gary Chanson" <gcha...@no.spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uvednU19vKuPcifI...@supernews.com...
Cecil the lion or Dr Palmer the dentist?
> --
> - Gary Chanson
Gary Chanson
Jul 31, 2015, 10:48:53 AM7/31/15
to
--
- Gary Chanson
Fred Brown
Jul 31, 2015, 1:39:53 PM7/31/15
to
news:hP2dnXUruvBJFybI...@supernews.com...
Got me. :))
> --
> - Gary Chanson
> --
> - Gary Chanson
Gary Chanson
Jul 31, 2015, 3:06:03 PM7/31/15
to
--
- Gary Chanson
Chris Zakes
Aug 2, 2015, 11:30:04 AM8/2/15
to
extradited and tried. But I doubt the punishment for poaching includes
crucifixion.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
GNU Terry Pratchett
Barry Gold
Aug 2, 2015, 2:22:12 PM8/2/15
to
On 7/28/2015 12:18 PM, Massive Unibrow wrote:
> It's possible this innocent, big-game bagging Minnesotan dentist was
> tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
> to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
> into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
> pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
> the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
Now that we've had a few days to think about it, I'm not sure about this
> It's possible this innocent, big-game bagging Minnesotan dentist was
> tricked by his guides, who accepted big money in exchange for the right
> to bag a lion. But it's also possible he knew what he was getting
> into. Luring a protected animal outside of the protected zone is a
> pretty crummy move. Instead of jailtime, I propose Walter be shot in
> the neck with a crossbow and left to bleed out.
at all.
On one hand, Palmer may have been innocent -- at least legally -- hiring
what he thought were honest guides for a hunting trip, and only
afterward finding out that they had lured the lion out of protected zone.
OTOH, he does have what the English police would call "form" for
poaching, with a prior conviction for killing a bear outside the allowed
area. Not just a little bit outside: 40 miles from the licensed hunting
zone.
Not enough for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Certainly enough for
"probable cause" -- enough to arrest somebody.
I'm also not convinced by an interview with one person that Zimbabweans
"are confused at the ruckus" caused by killing Cecil. Just because
somebody found one person who didn't care about Cecil doesn't mean that
other Zimbabweans don't care. Last I looked, Zimbabwe was a republic,
although apparently Mugabe's party has won every election since 1980.
I'll leave it to others to figure out if this is through election fraud
or whether Mugabe and the ZANU-PF just have a really good sense of what
the electorate wants.
In fact, it's quite possible that one or several large ethnic groups
doesn't care about lions (and actually wants to hunt them for food, fur,
whatever) while other large groups _do_ want to preserve the lions.
Establishing a largish preserve sounds like the kind of compromise
governments come up with when you have two competing groups with
opposing desires.
As for the idea suggested by one person that the US has pressured
Zimbabwe into demanding Palmer's extradition, I frankly doubt it. Sounds
like a typical conspiracy theory to me. Why would the US want to do
that? ANd what would carrot and/or stick would we wield for that
purpose, quietly enough that it wouldn't show up in the news media?
Fred Brown
Aug 3, 2015, 9:52:20 AM8/3/15
to
"Barry Gold" <Barry...@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mpln1j$pns$1...@dont-email.me...
extradition right after Obama announced the US would investigate whether
Palmer had violated the Lacy Act. As for a conspiracy theory, the government
always looks for something to distract it citizens from current political
events.
We know people love to be outraged, they love to vilify someone without the
least shred of evidence. We really don't have all the facts one way or the
other
but folks are ready to hang Dr Palmer.
The democrats need something to distract from Hillary's problems which seem
to mount day by day. They need a distraction from Trump's success.
What better way than a prolonged extradition fight over Dr Palmer? That
should
occupy the news for weeks.
p.s. I'm not in favor of hunting animals for sport. Some people think they
need to
do it to prove their manhood.
Barry Gold
Aug 3, 2015, 10:04:57 AM8/3/15
to
On 8/3/2015 6:52 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
> The democrats need something to distract from Hillary's problems which seem
> to mount day by day. They need a distraction from Trump's success.
I'll agree about Hillary's problems. The ongoing investigation into her
> The democrats need something to distract from Hillary's problems which seem
> to mount day by day. They need a distraction from Trump's success.
emails is likely to keep the whole mess alive in the press for the rest
of this year at least. And she isn't helping things any, first denying
that there was anything classified in her emails, only now it turns out
there was -- but it may not have been labeled as such.
Let's face it: she screwed up, using an uncleared and insecure personal
computer (and unencrypted email) for highly sensitive work material.
Personally, this is about what I'd expect from a politician: they just
don't understand about computers and the risks thereof. But she should
have understood about rules. The rules on the handling of classified
information are very clear. I held a security clearance for about half
of my working life, so I had to be aware of this stuff. Plus doing
enough work in the area of building secure systems to make me a
low-level expert in the field.
The odd thing is: during the entire 20 years I was in Defense work, I
handled only two classified documents. The main thing I used my
clearance for was being able to walk around the building without an escort.
Barry Gold
Aug 3, 2015, 11:14:58 AM8/3/15
to
On 8/3/2015 7:04 AM, Barry Gold wrote:
> On 8/3/2015 6:52 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
>> The democrats need something to distract from Hillary's problems which
>> seem
>> to mount day by day. They need a distraction from Trump's success.
I forgot to deal with the second sentence in the above quote: "Trump's
> On 8/3/2015 6:52 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
>> The democrats need something to distract from Hillary's problems which
>> seem
>> to mount day by day. They need a distraction from Trump's success.
success"?
You're kidding, right? Trump is riding high with the nativist voters in
the Tea Party movement, but he's alienating everybody outside that camp.
Remember, Obama got elected with less than 40% of the white male vote,
because he appealed to Blacks, Latinos, and women. Now imagine a
general election between Donald and Hillary. Trump can't open his mouth
without putting his foot in it, unless you're a right-wing extremist.
He's so far right he can't even see the center of the Republican party,
much less the middle of the whole electorate. He would scare off every
Latino in the country and most of the Blacks.
Trust isn't the only issue in this (or any) election. As one columnist
reminded us in Sunday's LA Times, there was a previous election where
the majority of voters said they didn't trust one of the candidates, but
he got elected anyway. And guess what! Hillary is married to him.
The way Trump is going, if he gets nominated Clinton will get not just
the 80% of the Black and Latino vote that Obama got, but more like 90%.
Even if Trump got 70% of the white males (vs. 60% for McCain and
Romney), Clinton will win.
The ones who are really scared of Trump are the business Republicans,
people like the Koch Brothers. They want somebody who can get elected
and push their agenda through: more oil drilling, less regulation of
businesses (except doctors who perform abortions), anti-gay and
anti-birth-control legislation, lawsuit "reform" (meaning low limits on
how much people can get if they are severely injured by somebody else's
negligence), etc.
Granted, Trump has plenty of his own money to spend on this, but the
Kochs and others are going to be putting their money on somebody who has
a good chance of winning: Jeb or Walker or somebody like that.
I could maybe see Jeb. He seems almost sane, especially compared to the
rest of the candidates on the GOP side.
Don Bruder
Aug 3, 2015, 12:15:57 PM8/3/15
to
In article <mpo0eh$chd$1...@dont-email.me>,
I still wish we had a "None of the above" option... Preferably one in
which the losers get put against the wall immediately after the polls
close. Trump: 100% pure asshole, with money sprinkled on top. Romney:
Who's he trying to kid? Bush: Please, just make the entire friggin' clan
go away! Wasn't two of them enough??? Clinton: If she gets in, we're ALL
*SO* screwed.
--
which the losers get put against the wall immediately after the polls
close. Trump: 100% pure asshole, with money sprinkled on top. Romney:
Who's he trying to kid? Bush: Please, just make the entire friggin' clan
go away! Wasn't two of them enough??? Clinton: If she gets in, we're ALL
*SO* screwed.
--
Barry Gold
Aug 3, 2015, 12:27:18 PM8/3/15
to
On 8/3/2015 9:15 AM, Don Bruder wrote:
> I still wish we had a "None of the above" option... Preferably one in
> which the losers get put against the wall immediately after the polls
> close. Trump: 100% pure asshole, with money sprinkled on top. Romney:
> Who's he trying to kid? Bush: Please, just make the entire friggin' clan
> go away! Wasn't two of them enough??? Clinton: If she gets in, we're ALL
> *SO* screwed.
That about sums it up.
> I still wish we had a "None of the above" option... Preferably one in
> which the losers get put against the wall immediately after the polls
> close. Trump: 100% pure asshole, with money sprinkled on top. Romney:
> Who's he trying to kid? Bush: Please, just make the entire friggin' clan
> go away! Wasn't two of them enough??? Clinton: If she gets in, we're ALL
> *SO* screwed.
Actually, my preference for "None of the above" is that you hold a new
election with everybody who ran in the previous election disqualified.
I guess "ran in the previous election" would mean the people whose name
went on the ballot for the general election, but you might extend it to
everybody who managed to get their name on the ballot in the primary.
MajorOz
Aug 3, 2015, 12:55:05 PM8/3/15
to
On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:52:20 AM UTC-5, Fred Brown wrote:
> I'm not in favor of hunting animals for sport. Some people think they
> need to do it to prove their manhood.
...heh,heh...
> I'm not in favor of hunting animals for sport. Some people think they
> need to do it to prove their manhood.
That kind of statement -- and similar ones about guns -- express more about the one saying it than about their subject.....reflective, if you will.
Barry Gold
Aug 3, 2015, 1:35:00 PM8/3/15
to
On 8/3/2015 8:14 AM, Barry Gold wrote:
> I could maybe see Jeb. He seems almost sane, especially compared to the
> rest of the candidates on the GOP side.
Then again, maybe not. I just looked up his positions in WIkipedia.
> I could maybe see Jeb. He seems almost sane, especially compared to the
> rest of the candidates on the GOP side.
Let's see:
Abortion: he's agin it. Well, you expect that from a Republican. At
least he's willing to make exceptions to save the life of the mother,
and for rape and incest. [Tim: by implication that means
father-daughter (or uncle-niece) incest, either non-consensual or in a
situation where the girl didn't think she could say no.]
Affirmative Action: he's agin it. I think he's right: the 14th
amendment does not allow the government to favor one ethnic group over
another.
Electronic Surveillance: He favors the USA PATRIOT act. From Wikipedia:
> Bush stated that opponents of the Act's reauthorization were "wrong"
and that "the Patriot Act has kept us safe, plain and simple. The
metadata program has kept us safe, plain and simple. There's been no
violation of civil liberties."
http://goo.gl/0wm5gR
http://news.yahoo.com/jeb-bush-says-rand-paul-wrong-ending-surveillance-013355059--election.html
He supports the continued collection of metadata by the NSA.
Confederate flag: he quitely ordered its removal from the Florida State
Capitol grounds. Score one for JEB.
Death penalty: He's in favor. But then, so are most other politicians
who want to get anywhere on the national stage.
Environment: he wants to rein in the EPA. Probably a good idea. He has
done a few pro-environment things in FL.
Energy: He supports offshore drilling -- except near FL. NIMBY. He
supports fracking, which is a win in terms of greenhouse gases, but uses
precious water *and* pollutes wherever you dump the used water afterward.
He wants to phase out all "tax credits and subsidies for all energy
sectors, including wind, solar, and fossil fuels (oil and gas)." He
also supports nuclear power. I agree with all this.
Climate Change: he waffles on this. I guess I do too.
Marriage: he opposes same-sex marriage and adoption by same-sex couples.
But he said of the latter, "Previously, I opposed gay adoption, but it
has since become the law in our state, and I respect that decision."
That's the kind of language I like to see. Beats hell out of statements
on the issue by other GOP candidates.
Obamacare: He called the ACA a "monstrosity" that is "flawed to its
core." He's right. He proposed a state- or local-gov't funded
"catastrophic coverage" system. I don't know where he thinks the States
or local governments are going to get the money for that. THis is only
practical if the US government cuts its taxes significantly to make room
for the States to raise theirs.
He called for privatizing parts of the VA healthcare system. This
sounds good, but the reality is that every attempt to privatize
something previously handled by the government has resulted in
lower-quality service at a higher price. It simply turns into a
giveaway to the cronies of whoever picks the contractor. Sometimes
that's a Governor or other major official (as with Blackwater's no-bid
contract to assist the military in Iraq). Sometimes it's a friend of the
chairman of whichever COngressional committee was in charge.
Immigration: a breath of fresh air here. Unlike the nativist sentiments
of most other GOP candidates, Bush favors a path to legal status but not
to citizenship.
Marijuana: he favors allowing States to decide for themselves, but
waffled on whether the DEA should enforce Federal laws in States where
marijuana is legal.
Bush intervened in the Terry Schiavo case and ordered the feeding tube
reinserted. But we've already argued that case, and I don't think
anybody is going to change their minds.
Bush opposes Net Neutrality. I kind of like it, but can't justify it in
terms of my overall libertarian worldview. Except perhaps as part of a
general "common carrier" or "utility"-style regulation scheme, which has
long been used to rein in "natural monopolies". Even there, I think it
should apply only when _both_ the following criteria are met:
1. There are significant barriers to entry. So it would apply to
wired broadband (where the cost of running another cable would be
prohibitive) but not to WISPs (Wireless ISPs), where anybody with a few
thou can set up a wireless router and start selling bandwidth.
2. The incumbent carrier is the benefit of past government assistance
in the form for franchises and/or the use of eminent domain to acquire
the right to pass over other people's property and install utility poles
or underground wiring, and to maintain the existing wiring.
If somebody has built their wired internet system without government
help (beyond what everybody gets, e.g., police protection of their
property), then they should be free to do what they want with it.
Bush opposes the use of torture, but on practical rather than moral grounds.
That's a sampling. Look up "Political Positions of Jeb Bush" in
wikipedia for more.
Tim Merrigan
Aug 3, 2015, 6:13:56 PM8/3/15
to
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:34:32 -0700, Barry Gold <Barry...@ca.rr.com>
wrote:
> [Tim: by implication that means
>father-daughter (or uncle-niece) incest, either non-consensual or in a
>situation where the girl didn't think she could say no.]
Which makes it rape, and already included in that exception. Same if
she's underage.
wrote:
> [Tim: by implication that means
>father-daughter (or uncle-niece) incest, either non-consensual or in a
>situation where the girl didn't think she could say no.]
she's underage.
Fred Brown
Aug 5, 2015, 9:09:38 AM8/5/15
to
news:mpnsb9$qk1$1...@dont-email.me...
I worked for an aerospace company and in the late 80's they began switching
from dumb tubes connected to a mainframe to individual PC's for salaried
employees. It didn't take long for quite a few to bring in modems from home
and connect their PC's to the internet. IT discovered it when a PC repair
man
noticed it was connected to a modem. They surveyed all the PC's and
something
like 15% were connected to the internet. Further investigation revealed the
companies engineering and marketing data was being accessed by outside
IP addresses.
Hillary isn't stupid, she knew anything she wrote on the government e-mail
system could be subject to an FOI request, so use a private server nobody
would know about and even if they did it would not be subject to FOI.
from dumb tubes connected to a mainframe to individual PC's for salaried
employees. It didn't take long for quite a few to bring in modems from home
and connect their PC's to the internet. IT discovered it when a PC repair
man
noticed it was connected to a modem. They surveyed all the PC's and
something
like 15% were connected to the internet. Further investigation revealed the
companies engineering and marketing data was being accessed by outside
IP addresses.
Hillary isn't stupid, she knew anything she wrote on the government e-mail
system could be subject to an FOI request, so use a private server nobody
would know about and even if they did it would not be subject to FOI.
Barry Gold
Aug 5, 2015, 9:17:50 AM8/5/15
to
On 8/5/2015 6:09 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
> I worked for an aerospace company and in the late 80's they began switching
> from dumb tubes connected to a mainframe to individual PC's for salaried
> employees. It didn't take long for quite a few to bring in modems from home
> and connect their PC's to the internet. IT discovered it when a PC
> repair man
> noticed it was connected to a modem. They surveyed all the PC's and
> something
> like 15% were connected to the internet. Further investigation revealed the
> companies engineering and marketing data was being accessed by outside
> IP addresses.
Since most aerospace companies do Defense work, this was incredibly
> I worked for an aerospace company and in the late 80's they began switching
> from dumb tubes connected to a mainframe to individual PC's for salaried
> employees. It didn't take long for quite a few to bring in modems from home
> and connect their PC's to the internet. IT discovered it when a PC
> repair man
> noticed it was connected to a modem. They surveyed all the PC's and
> something
> like 15% were connected to the internet. Further investigation revealed the
> companies engineering and marketing data was being accessed by outside
> IP addresses.
dumb. Those people should have been fired and their security clearances
revoked. Permanently.
> Hillary isn't stupid, she knew anything she wrote on the government e-mail
> system could be subject to an FOI request, so use a private server nobody
> would know about and even if they did it would not be subject to FOI.
she didn't want subject to FOI, but *not* for Classified info.
(Besides, Classified isn't subject to FOI.)
Fred Brown
Aug 5, 2015, 9:34:10 AM8/5/15
to
news:mpo0eh$chd$1...@dont-email.me...
Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
Rubio crashes, Trump blows past Walker in Iowa polls.
But on the other hand it early in the game and early leaders have
been know to crash later on. Guess time will tell.
I think it would be a good idea to have a business mind running
the country instead of a politician who the day after he is elected
begins worrying about the next election.
I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
Rubio crashes, Trump blows past Walker in Iowa polls.
But on the other hand it early in the game and early leaders have
been know to crash later on. Guess time will tell.
I think it would be a good idea to have a business mind running
the country instead of a politician who the day after he is elected
begins worrying about the next election.
Fred Brown
Aug 5, 2015, 9:44:04 AM8/5/15
to
news:b7212e74-e455-4c8b...@googlegroups.com...
I don't carry a gun to prove my manhood. It's just that at age 73 I can't do
Karate anymore.
(plus the business end of my 9mm is scarier than my Karate fighting stance.)
Karate anymore.
(plus the business end of my 9mm is scarier than my Karate fighting stance.)
Gary Chanson
Aug 5, 2015, 11:23:06 AM8/5/15
to
--
- Gary Chanson
Barry Gold
Aug 5, 2015, 11:40:55 AM8/5/15
to
On 8/5/2015 6:34 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
Trump is leading in polls among the GOP faithful. It's possible he
> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
could get nominated, but most people expect him to fall to his own worst
enemy -- his mouth -- in the debates.
I expect him to do well in the Iowa caucuses, because only the most
dedicated Republicans show up for those. In a primary, where the Rs who
want less regulation and otherwise opening up the economy and don't give
a damn about gay marriage or immigration will show up, I think he'll
fall to Walker or one of the other candidates who appeal to that end of
things.
Trump a business mind? He knows how to do two things: trade in real
estate, and promote himself. He'd be a worse President than any of the
Senators who got that office. For the most part those did a piss-poor
job -- look at Obama's record. Or at JFK's -- not the "Camelot" myth
that sprang up around him, but his actual accomplishments during nearly
3 years of being President. LBJ was an exception, but (1) He knew where
*all* the bodies were buried, including JE Hoover's (2) He was able to
get a lot of his program enacted on the wave of sentiment created by
JFK's assassination.
Him getting nominated is probably the worst thing that could happen to
the country, because it would virtually guarantee Hillary getting elected.
Trump's public statements not only have every Democrat in the country
cringing, but most of the independents as well.
MajorOz
Aug 5, 2015, 12:45:32 PM8/5/15
to
Both conditions guarantee a Billary slam-dunk.
There are no secular republicans.
Therefore the party, on a national level, is .... finished.
They will revert to one of those bitchy minority parties seen in European parliaments.
Barry Gold
Aug 5, 2015, 7:02:12 PM8/5/15
to
On 8/5/2015 9:45 AM, MajorOz wrote:
> ...and all the others are JW's.
Just WOnderings? Jehovah's Witnesses?
> ...and all the others are JW's.
MajorOz
Aug 5, 2015, 8:26:15 PM8/5/15
to
Fred Brown
Aug 6, 2015, 10:23:23 AM8/6/15
to
news:mptan6$uft$1...@dont-email.me...
it by himself. It's their ability to get things done through other people. A
smart
leader choses capable people to enact his ideas and plans. One man can't do
it
by himself.
Back around 1971 the board of directors at United Aircraft were unhappy with
the overall performace of it's subsidaries Pratt & Whitney, Hamilton
Standard
and Sikorsky. They hired Harry Grey away from Litton Industries because of
his
success in turning Litton and John Deere around.
The first thing Grey did was replace all the top management with the
managers
from Litton and Deere who had helped him turn around those companies. Grey
knew what needed to be done and put the management teams in place to
accomplish his goals.
Trump would need to do the same thing, select Cabinet officers who can lead
rather than being figureheads like Obama appoints.
Can he do it? The question remains. Let's see how he does tonight.
Will he get ambushed like Romney?
> On 8/5/2015 6:34 AM, Fred Brown wrote:
>> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
>> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
>
> Trump is leading in polls among the GOP faithful. It's possible he could
> get nominated, but most people expect him to fall to his own worst
> enemy -- his mouth -- in the debates.
>
> I expect him to do well in the Iowa caucuses, because only the most
> dedicated Republicans show up for those. In a primary, where the Rs who
> want less regulation and otherwise opening up the economy and don't give a
> damn about gay marriage or immigration will show up, I think he'll fall to
> Walker or one of the other candidates who appeal to that end of things.
>
> Trump a business mind? He knows how to do two things: trade in real
> estate, and promote himself. He'd be a worse President than any of the
> Senators who got that office. For the most part those did a piss-poor
> job -- look at Obama's record. Or at JFK's -- not the "Camelot" myth that
> sprang up around him, but his actual accomplishments during nearly 3 years
> of being President. LBJ was an exception, but (1) He knew where *all* the
> bodies were buried, including JE Hoover's (2) He was able to get a lot of
> his program enacted on the wave of sentiment created by JFK's
> assassination.
No man who has achieved any great amount of stature and wealth has achieved
>> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
>> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
>
> Trump is leading in polls among the GOP faithful. It's possible he could
> get nominated, but most people expect him to fall to his own worst
> enemy -- his mouth -- in the debates.
>
> I expect him to do well in the Iowa caucuses, because only the most
> dedicated Republicans show up for those. In a primary, where the Rs who
> want less regulation and otherwise opening up the economy and don't give a
> damn about gay marriage or immigration will show up, I think he'll fall to
> Walker or one of the other candidates who appeal to that end of things.
>
> Trump a business mind? He knows how to do two things: trade in real
> estate, and promote himself. He'd be a worse President than any of the
> Senators who got that office. For the most part those did a piss-poor
> job -- look at Obama's record. Or at JFK's -- not the "Camelot" myth that
> sprang up around him, but his actual accomplishments during nearly 3 years
> of being President. LBJ was an exception, but (1) He knew where *all* the
> bodies were buried, including JE Hoover's (2) He was able to get a lot of
> his program enacted on the wave of sentiment created by JFK's
> assassination.
it by himself. It's their ability to get things done through other people. A
smart
leader choses capable people to enact his ideas and plans. One man can't do
it
by himself.
Back around 1971 the board of directors at United Aircraft were unhappy with
the overall performace of it's subsidaries Pratt & Whitney, Hamilton
Standard
and Sikorsky. They hired Harry Grey away from Litton Industries because of
his
success in turning Litton and John Deere around.
The first thing Grey did was replace all the top management with the
managers
from Litton and Deere who had helped him turn around those companies. Grey
knew what needed to be done and put the management teams in place to
accomplish his goals.
Trump would need to do the same thing, select Cabinet officers who can lead
rather than being figureheads like Obama appoints.
Can he do it? The question remains. Let's see how he does tonight.
Will he get ambushed like Romney?
Fred Brown
Aug 6, 2015, 10:39:39 AM8/6/15
to
news:hfidnZLXRsHEt1_I...@supernews.com...
Twice since I started carrying. Once late at night in a underground parking
garage where I had parked my car while attending a Nutcracker performance
at the city civic center. When we reached my car a couple of umm, well
tanned
gentlemen decided they should check my date and I out. Removing my car keys
exposed the handgun on my hip and they had an immediate change of mind.
The second time was about six months ago. Leaving an on ramp I had to cross
two lanes to get to the left hand turning lane. I didn't cut anyone off,
cause anyone
to slam on their brakes, but one driver of a Dodge pickup apparantly decided
he would have a chat with me about my driving. He pulled right up to my rear
bumper. So close all I could see was the top half of his grille. Followed me
into
the parking lot of a hardware store and was coming at me when I lifted my
golf
shirt to pocket my keys and exposed my sidearm. He did a 180 and vacated the
lot.
> --
> - Gary Chanson
>
garage where I had parked my car while attending a Nutcracker performance
at the city civic center. When we reached my car a couple of umm, well
tanned
gentlemen decided they should check my date and I out. Removing my car keys
exposed the handgun on my hip and they had an immediate change of mind.
The second time was about six months ago. Leaving an on ramp I had to cross
two lanes to get to the left hand turning lane. I didn't cut anyone off,
cause anyone
to slam on their brakes, but one driver of a Dodge pickup apparantly decided
he would have a chat with me about my driving. He pulled right up to my rear
bumper. So close all I could see was the top half of his grille. Followed me
into
the parking lot of a hardware store and was coming at me when I lifted my
golf
shirt to pocket my keys and exposed my sidearm. He did a 180 and vacated the
lot.
> --
> - Gary Chanson
>
Gary Chanson
Aug 6, 2015, 10:58:18 AM8/6/15
to
fun to have with you. ;)
--
- Gary Chanson
MajorOz
Aug 6, 2015, 12:44:46 PM8/6/15
to
"You have all the authority you need, and I have your back. I have outlined the broad policies; you get it done. I will be on the golf course"
Barry Gold
Aug 6, 2015, 7:55:26 PM8/6/15
to
On 8/6/2015 9:44 AM, MajorOz wrote:
> "You have all the authority you need, and I have your back. I have outlined the broad policies; you get it done. I will be on the golf course"
Chuckle! Not literally true, of course, but Ike was famous for the
> "You have all the authority you need, and I have your back. I have outlined the broad policies; you get it done. I will be on the golf course"
amount of time he spent on the gold course. And he did have a bit of
"King log" about him.
Kevin C
Aug 7, 2015, 6:51:56 AM8/7/15
to
On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 9:34:10 AM UTC-4, Fred Brown wrote:
> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
Right now it all strikes me as rearranging chairs on the _Titanic,_ and that's not just the GOP ticket, either.
> Yeah, elect Jeb then a Bush can be blamed for the nation's ills. :))
> I dunno Barry, Trump is leading in new polls, Jeb is slipping,
Gary Chanson
Aug 7, 2015, 10:50:43 AM8/7/15
to
--
- Gary Chanson
Barry Gold
Aug 7, 2015, 1:24:29 PM8/7/15
to
have any idea how to run a country, although JEB and Walker at least
have a little experience running a State.
Fred Brown
Aug 7, 2015, 3:36:56 PM8/7/15
to
news:U_OdnYiyl_-X617I...@supernews.com...
They have some good points. On the other hand I don't have to feed and water
my
gun. It dosen't wake me up in the middle of the night to pee or poop. Best
of all
it dosen't shed hair all over the house. <BG>
> --
> - Gary Chanson
my
gun. It dosen't wake me up in the middle of the night to pee or poop. Best
of all
it dosen't shed hair all over the house. <BG>
> --
> - Gary Chanson
Don Bruder
Aug 7, 2015, 4:40:27 PM8/7/15
to
In article <55c508d7$0$32529$bb4e...@newscene.com>,
Like yours, mine doesn't pee, poo, or wake me at midnight. Nor does it
shed. I don't water it (at least, not intentionally) but it does get
"dry-cleaned" regularly.
However, if I don't feed it, it doesn't "bark" properly.
shed. I don't water it (at least, not intentionally) but it does get
"dry-cleaned" regularly.
However, if I don't feed it, it doesn't "bark" properly.
Gary Chanson
Aug 7, 2015, 5:02:52 PM8/7/15
to
vacuuming up spring shedding and it's almost time for fall shedding! At
least this one isn't like the previous one who was all GSD and never
stopped shedding. This one usually does mostly stop mid-seasons.
--
- Gary Chanson
Tim Merrigan
Aug 7, 2015, 5:05:39 PM8/7/15
to
On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:23:58 -0700, Barry Gold <Barry...@ca.rr.com>
wrote:
>JEB and Walker at least
>have a little experience running a State.
Into the ground. (Though JEB did better than Walker and his cutting
taxes and defunding everything in the state. (Any growth in Wisconsin
was in spite of him.))
wrote:
>JEB and Walker at least
>have a little experience running a State.
taxes and defunding everything in the state. (Any growth in Wisconsin
was in spite of him.))
MajorOz
Aug 7, 2015, 5:53:37 PM8/7/15
to
Kevin C
Aug 9, 2015, 7:36:20 AM8/9/15
to
On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, Gary Chanson wrote:
> And why should this election be different from all other elections? ];-)
Never said it wasn't.
> And why should this election be different from all other elections? ];-)
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