Iriminage 100 different ways...

[Awaken21]

http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc

[Love]

In article <96dc76d3-2d62-48e3-a9de-
adfe75...@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, lukec...@gmail.com says...
>http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc

That is a very cool form, though for a little
while there I thought you'd posted about some
gay Japanese version of "so you think you can
dance?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vPFeDazhpU

--
Love

May Shai-Hulud clear the path before you.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 18, 6:54 pm, Love <l...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <96dc76d3-2d62-48e3-a9de-
> adfe75c4f...@v5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, lukecar...@gmail.com says...

>
> >http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>
> That is a very cool form,

Aikido rocks. And it's fun. This vid was the same technique against
varied attacks.

> though for a little
> while there I thought you'd posted about some
> gay Japanese version of "so you think you can
> dance?"
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vPFeDazhpU
>

I bet they make even more money in their moonlighting gigs.

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:
> http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc

Do you practice Aikido?

[Awaken21]

I did but had to stop. :( . I'm hoping to get the doctor's OK again at
some point along the way here.... I sorely miss it.

[pacman]

i can't think of much better for an aimless youth/boy than martial
arts. it's got that balance between discipline, fun, violence,
intensity, spirituality, character, values, other cultures.....

i wish i hadn't left karate before i gave the teacher a chance.

[Andy]

I understand that... I've been practicing for around twenty years now
and it's become a part of my way of life. Good luck with the doc.

[Kirsten]

On Nov 18, 6:36 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc

Very awesome: aikido is win.

You'll be pleased to know I have found a lovely martial-arty home in
Kali.

I attended a day long seminar today to inaugurate a new club, and was
introduced to the twenty or so folks assembled as being one of the
reasons the expansion was happening. Was so moved.

It's been such a blessing to me.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[Awaken21]

So you've got pants! :)

My oldest daughter always said Aikido people reminded her of some kind
of cult. I can't argue. After a while it ingrains itself into your
being.

So here's the question that I like to ask Aikido cult followers...
When you watch Steven Seagal practicing his style do you think
'Asshole'?

[Awaken21]

On Nov 19, 10:05 pm, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 18, 6:36 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>
> Very awesome: aikido is win.
>
> You'll be pleased to know I have found a lovely martial-arty home in
> Kali.
>

Yes. Being one of your loyal followers I picked up on that. And
support that move wholeheartedly. Kali is a very cool martial art and
a true combat art.

> I attended a day long seminar today to inaugurate a new club, and was
> introduced to the twenty or so folks assembled as being one of the
> reasons the expansion was happening. Was so moved.
>
> It's been such a blessing to me.
>

I love watching the videos you post. My only complaint is I'd like to
see more of you in them. :)

[Awaken21]

On Nov 19, 4:52 pm, pacman <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:32 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 19, 12:54 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
>
> > > Awaken21 wrote:
> > > >http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>
> > > Do you practice Aikido?
>
> > I did but had to stop. :( . I'm hoping to get the doctor's OK again at
> > some point along the way here.... I sorely miss it.
>
> i can't think of much better for an aimless youth/boy than martial
> arts. it's got that balance between discipline, fun, violence,
> intensity, spirituality, character, values, other cultures.....
>

Yes. I did martial arts of one kind or another for my whole life. Much
later it led me to Buddhism.

> i wish i hadn't left karate before i gave the teacher a chance.

Or found another teacher or martial art.

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:
> On Nov 19, 5:49 pm, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
>> Awaken21 wrote:
>>> On Nov 19, 12:54 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
>>>> Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>> http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>>
>>>> Do you practice Aikido?
>>
>>> I did but had to stop. :( . I'm hoping to get the doctor's OK again
>>> at some point along the way here.... I sorely miss it.
>>
>> I understand that... I've been practicing for around twenty years now
>> and it's become a part of my way of life. Good luck with the doc.
>
> So you've got pants! :)

They're not compulsory, and I never saw the point of them.

> My oldest daughter always said Aikido people reminded her of some kind
> of cult. I can't argue. After a while it ingrains itself into your
> being.
>
> So here's the question that I like to ask Aikido cult followers...
> When you watch Steven Seagal practicing his style do you think
> 'Asshole'?

I think 'Hollywood'. I've never been interested enough to see
any more of him than I've already done, which hasn't been much.

[pacman]

the other one was a fake. the one i had was a brown belt and he had
black belt students. this was pretty confusing but at least he was
honest. b1 is 19 and tells me he was a student of the fake one
(apparently he returned after he was discredited).

he was in seniors class as a kid like i was in my school. that's why i
left but he seemed to enjoy the challenge and being picked on by the
teacher. he's almost enlightened......imho..

it connected to magic to me cos of the defiance of physical limits.
sometimes i watch a movie and it inspires me to do something crazy and
i ran up a wall and jumped a kids head at school once, years after i
quit but i still had some instinct and belief.

the movie was nightmare on elm street dream warriors.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 20, 10:24 am, pacman <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 11:03 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 4:52 pm, pacman <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 20, 5:32 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 19, 12:54 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
>
> > > > > Awaken21 wrote:
> > > > > >http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>
> > > > > Do you practice Aikido?
>
> > > > I did but had to stop. :( . I'm hoping to get the doctor's OK again at
> > > > some point along the way here.... I sorely miss it.
>
> > > i can't think of much better for an aimless youth/boy than martial
> > > arts. it's got that balance between discipline, fun, violence,
> > > intensity, spirituality, character, values, other cultures.....
>
> > Yes. I did martial arts of one kind or another for my whole life. Much
> > later it led me to Buddhism.
>
> > > i wish i hadn't left karate before i gave the teacher a chance.
>
> > Or found another teacher or martial art.
>
> the other one was a fake.

Only 2 martial arts teachers in your area? Small town guy! Having been
raised in suburbia it's hard for me to even imagine.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 20, 10:34 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
> Awaken21 wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 5:49 pm, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
> >> Awaken21 wrote:
> >>> On Nov 19, 12:54 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
> >>>> Awaken21 wrote:
> >>>>>http://youtu.be/F3NmaYu2Kvc
>
> >>>> Do you practice Aikido?
>
> >>> I did but had to stop. :( . I'm hoping to get the doctor's OK again
> >>> at some point along the way here.... I sorely miss it.
>
> >> I understand that... I've been practicing for around twenty years now
> >> and it's become a part of my way of life. Good luck with the doc.
>
> > So you've got pants! :)
>
> They're not compulsory, and I never saw the point of them.
>

Still, you're qualified to wear them. Impressive achievement/level of
knowledge/ competence.

> > My oldest daughter always said Aikido people reminded her of some kind
> > of cult. I can't argue. After a while it ingrains itself into your
> > being.
>
> > So here's the question that I like to ask Aikido cult followers...
> > When you watch Steven Seagal practicing his style do you think
> > 'Asshole'?
>
> I think 'Hollywood'. I've never been interested enough to see
> any more of him than I've already done, which hasn't been much.

Besides the part where his basic style assumption is that he's going
to be taller than his opponents. Which I'm sure works for him,
probably less so for his students... just watching his style of Aikido
felt like you got a sense of something basic in his personality that
was... mean spirited.

You don't have to suffer through his morally questionable, poorly
written, cliched testosterone fest movies, you can check out some his
training videos. Some of us who gathered occasionally after class used
to sometimes watch them for fun and the opportunity to do interactive
theater activity.

[pacman]

imagine the internet. :)

[Awaken21]

My dad called it in the mid 70's. He called a bunch of things... I've
had a pretty good record at seeing what's coming but dad was THE man.
Still the power of the internet does boggle my mind, even having been
warned/told.

[pacman]

yeah i knew what "internet" meant before i heard the definition, after
watching wargames i was lit up with the idea of this computer world
although we didn't have the internet just then.

then i met a bunch of kids who had been living on it for years, and
some left over remnants of late eighties hacker groups which were
still mingling with the kids, and it was a lot of fun.

that's how i met my first (virtually) girlfriend. she was like me and
just interested in the world, her name was watcher. she was in harvard
at age 15. i was surrounded by lots of prodigies. but i didn't take
any of it very seriously especially after i fell in love we were just
"the couple"..

my town itself is small but it's near the ocean, not in the middle of
nowhere "outback" (i'm not sure what that even means). only a few
thousand people though but because it's a tourist spot everything is
fancyish (compared). pamela anderson met my dad robin williams stayed
around the corner on holidays (literally a one minute walk). there's a
reality t.v. show on the go somewhere near that my english/jehovah
friend is transporting equipment for, they drop the celebrity (he
doesn't know who it is yet and we won't be able to tell you when we
know!..) into the "middle of nowhere" (yeah right) and make them eat
widdgidy grubs and gross stuff..

[pacman]

i just went to a town with a name with an occult word in it and i was
thinking about moving there again and thinking about witches and magic
stuff. it's a little way out only and there's no threat of tourism
destroying it's qualities at this point. i was with the jehovahs
witness.

b1 introduced me to a girl when i got back called trinity, she's a
witch. i didn't know her from anywhere but she happens to be a friend
of my sisters. then j came over and i was about to introduce them (he
doesn't even live here).. and they already knew each other from long
ago.

i think she knew this was a set up.

[noname]

"dork-knob"

--
Occurrence is the voice of the world.

[pacman]

i expect morphius will show up as a drug dealer soon

[pacman]

it's like a mind meld with reality. just yesterday i was thinking
about pulling out of society again but maybe i will move to magic
town, and just have a quieter and stranger society.

morphius was probably the guy who sold me the subbie (like morphine).
he's dropping off a couple of psychology text books. he has 2 degrees,
one in psychology and one in chemistry.

he's pretty cool. even if he saw a snuff film, he's a family guy and
he didn't like to watch it. he just seems to have very strange
acquaintances. (now especially) he reminds me of my old merlin figure,
who died of alcoholism and had a lot of dirty habits but most of it
came down to him being such a nice person to everyone that he
attracted all kinds (and he's very smart).

[pacman]

On Nov 21, 8:31 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:

you'll walk away feeling like a genius.

[Kirsten]

On Nov 20, 3:01 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You'll be pleased to know I have found a lovely martial-arty home in
> > Kali.
>
> Yes. Being one of your loyal followers I picked up on that. And
> support that move wholeheartedly. Kali is a very cool martial art and
> a true combat art.
>
> > I attended a day long seminar today to inaugurate a new club, and was
> > introduced to the twenty or so folks assembled as being one of the
> > reasons the expansion was happening. Was so moved.
>
> > It's been such a blessing to me.
>
> I love watching the videos you post. My only complaint is I'd like to
> see more of you in them. :)

Maybe I'll get a movie deal, you never know. I'll need to keep
practising, so I at least become the instructor's "target". So then
people will see me getting my ass handed to me, haha.

Still, kali has brought many gifts. It's certainly helped me lose
weight, make friends and the by product of being absolutely capable of
kicking ass is a nice added bonus.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[noname]

Maybe someday you'll advance to the point where you are absolutely
capable of not kicking ass.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 22, 2:50 am, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 3:01 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > You'll be pleased to know I have found a lovely martial-arty home in
> > > Kali.
>
> > Yes. Being one of your loyal followers I picked up on that. And
> > support that move wholeheartedly. Kali is a very cool martial art and
> > a true combat art.
>
> > > I attended a day long seminar today to inaugurate a new club, and was
> > > introduced to the twenty or so folks assembled as being one of the
> > > reasons the expansion was happening. Was so moved.
>
> > > It's been such a blessing to me.
>
> > I love watching the videos you post. My only complaint is I'd like to
> > see more of you in them. :)
>
> Maybe I'll get a movie deal, you never know. I'll need to keep
> practising, so I at least become the instructor's "target". So then
> people will see me getting my ass handed to me, haha.
>

During practice being the person getting their ass kicked is as much
fun as being the person doing the ass kicking. And you learn more.

> Still, kali has brought many gifts. It's certainly helped me lose
> weight, make friends and the by product of being absolutely capable of
> kicking ass is a nice added bonus.
>

Totally agree. This applies to fighting arts generally. Although to be
objective Judo and Aikido persons can be pretty corpulent. :)

So hurry up and get good enough to get your ass handed to you! We want
video!

[Keynes]

BEWARE of Karate -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFv9Z-8FcI&feature=related

[Love]

In article <a9mrc719vajg0u4le...@4ax.com>,
Key...@earthlinkspam.net says...

>BEWARE of Karate -
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFv9Z-8FcI

I pity inanimate objects.


--
Love

May Shai-Hulud clear the path before you.

[Kirsten]

On Nov 22, 4:54 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe I'll get a movie deal, you never know. I'll need to keep
> > practising, so I at least become the instructor's "target". So then
> > people will see me getting my ass handed to me, haha.
>
> During practice being the person getting their ass kicked is as much
> fun as being the person doing the ass kicking. And you learn more.
>

My "Kirsten the human punchbag" videos will be famous!

Best wishes
Kirsten

[Kirsten]

On Nov 24, 5:42 am, Keynes <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote:
> BEWARE of Karate -
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFv9Z-8FcI&feature=related

I used to do a form of karate that specialised in breaking stuff. It
was lots of fun. If I am ever attacked by a brick or a piece of wood,
you know I'm ready. Baddump-chink.

One of the fun parts of Kali is that it has folded in techniques from
kung fu and ju-jitsu over the centuries. So, the kicks I learned when
I was doing kickboxing, and the wrist-locks from aikido are all part
of the system. Alas, karate is too far away in terms of form and
philosophy: my suspicion if I tried to copy Cliff is that I would
likewise be heading to the hospital.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[Awaken21]

On Nov 24, 1:58 am, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 5:42 am, Keynes <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote:
>
> > BEWARE of Karate -
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFv9Z-8FcI&feature=related
>
> I used to do a form of karate that specialised in breaking stuff. It
> was lots of fun. If I am ever attacked by a brick or a piece of wood,
> you know I'm ready. Baddump-chink.
>

I did karate for many years. At this point though I consider it the
least of the fighting arts.

> One of the fun parts of Kali is that it has folded in techniques from
> kung fu and ju-jitsu over the centuries. So, the kicks I learned when
> I was doing kickboxing, and the wrist-locks from aikido are all part
> of the system. Alas, karate is too far away in terms of form and
> philosophy: my suspicion if I tried to copy Cliff is that I would
> likewise be heading to the hospital.
>

I noticed the wrist lock in the last parts of the video you put up on
FB recently. At first I thought "aikido", which was true enough, but
then I realized I had actually learned that lock even before that the
very first period where I was doing stick fighting. Interesting how
inter related so many of the fighting arts really are.

[Kirsten]

On Nov 24, 11:08 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One of the fun parts of Kali is that it has folded in techniques from
> > kung fu and ju-jitsu over the centuries. So, the kicks I learned when
> > I was doing kickboxing, and the wrist-locks from aikido are all part
> > of the system. Alas, karate is too far away in terms of form and
> > philosophy: my suspicion if I tried to copy Cliff is that I would
> > likewise be heading to the hospital.
>
> I noticed the wrist lock in the last parts of the video you put up on
> FB recently. At first I thought "aikido", which was true enough, but
> then I realized I had actually learned that lock even before that the
> very first period where I was doing stick fighting. Interesting how
> inter related so many of the fighting arts really are.

Dion Canete, one of the main Kali guys, says that many of the "dumog"
or grappling locks in modern Kali are from aikido. The modern form of
Kali teaches a fifteen lock flow. Kote-gaeshi is the first in Kali's
lock flow, and nikyo and sankyo follow soon ... familiar stuff for the
aikidoka.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15e855FQRco

The exciting thing about doing these in Kali is that you do them at
speed during the stick to stick stuff if they happen to fall out of
the drill - feels like, "aikido technique! owned!" and then the guy
goes into the floor. Anyone who disses the aikido as "impractical"
knows precisely dick about the martial arts...and you can quote me on
that.

Likewise I have total respect for the Wing Chun, my goodness. I did a
four person training session with just the Wing Chun advanced
students, due to a scheduling mixup, and we kind of bonded, so they
now ask me along to stuff. I've got an invite to an advanced seminar
in Wing Chun week after next, which just has me pinching myself (they
are so good, and I am so not...but I have fun, and can admittedly kick
and punch properly). I love them but Jesus they hit hard. I have to
remind them sometimes that a) I am girly in her forties and b) "I used
to run this town". They're like "whatever"...boom! And I'm like,
"pheel the pheet of phear, kung-fu dude" - boom!

Strangely, I am not much bothered by fear of violence these days.

I know what you mean about karate, though; probably not good to spend
too much time on, I'd say.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[web head]

better to be punched sometimes.

apparently, i can't remember the movie though but i thought the advice
was good, you can take the force out of an opponent by merely playing
dead. even if they know that you're alive, letting the body become
completely slack and submissive is a total put off, in some cases.
they want to put you there but you skip ahead.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 24, 5:29 pm, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 11:08 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > One of the fun parts of Kali is that it has folded in techniques from
> > > kung fu and ju-jitsu over the centuries. So, the kicks I learned when
> > > I was doing kickboxing, and the wrist-locks from aikido are all part
> > > of the system. Alas, karate is too far away in terms of form and
> > > philosophy: my suspicion if I tried to copy Cliff is that I would
> > > likewise be heading to the hospital.
>
> > I noticed the wrist lock in the last parts of the video you put up on
> > FB recently. At first I thought "aikido", which was true enough, but
> > then I realized I had actually learned that lock even before that the
> > very first period where I was doing stick fighting. Interesting how
> > inter related so many of the fighting arts really are.
>
> Dion Canete, one of the main Kali guys, says that many of the "dumog"
> or grappling locks in modern Kali are from aikido. The modern form of
> Kali teaches a fifteen lock flow. Kote-gaeshi is the first in Kali's
> lock flow, and nikyo and sankyo follow soon ... familiar stuff for the
> aikidoka.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15e855FQRco
>

I like this. It's a great way to get the hang of the major hand/arm
locks in a cohesive repetitive training pattern. Awesome.

As I was watching I was reminded of how much trust is involved in
training.

> The exciting thing about doing these in Kali is that you do them at
> speed during the stick to stick stuff if they happen to fall out of
> the drill - feels like, "aikido technique! owned!" and then the guy
> goes into the floor. Anyone who disses the aikido as "impractical"
> knows precisely dick about the martial arts...and you can quote me on
> that.
>

We have a quite of few police types who train at the dojo who also
disagree strenuously with idiots who believe aikido is impractical. I
always felt like people who thought aikido was impractical were just
ignorant, but I don't ever really have reason to test my beliefs,
thankfully. Police do though.

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:
> We have a quite of few police types who train at the dojo who also
> disagree strenuously with idiots who believe aikido is impractical. I
> always felt like people who thought aikido was impractical were just
> ignorant, but I don't ever really have reason to test my beliefs,
> thankfully. Police do though.

It's easy to see why some people claim that Aikido doesn't work. The basic
techniques are really just the baby steps, the means through which one
acquires the fundamental principles of movement. Learning only the basic
techniques and thinking that you've learned Aikido, you frequently find that
technique lets you down. It's only with years of practice that your body
begins to 'understand' the principles, and then the techniques don't matter
so much (like there's no need to keep your focus on the alphabet when you
can read and write fluently). My instructor, who has sadly retired due to a
stroke, once said that people who persevere with Aikido are a strange
kind -- they've come to understand that they're taking on an impossible
task, and yet they push on with it. It's like realising you've jumped into a
bottomless pool and yet continuing to swim deeper, and it's that aspect that
hooked me.

[noname]

Awaken21 <lukec...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 24, 5:29 pm, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 24, 11:08 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > > One of the fun parts of Kali is that it has folded in techniques from
>> > > kung fu and ju-jitsu over the centuries. So, the kicks I learned when
>> > > I was doing kickboxing, and the wrist-locks from aikido are all part
>> > > of the system. Alas, karate is too far away in terms of form and
>> > > philosophy: my suspicion if I tried to copy Cliff is that I would
>> > > likewise be heading to the hospital.
>>
>> > I noticed the wrist lock in the last parts of the video you put up on
>> > FB recently. At first I thought "aikido", which was true enough, but
>> > then I realized I had actually learned that lock even before that the
>> > very first period where I was doing stick fighting. Interesting how
>> > inter related so many of the fighting arts really are.
>>
>> Dion Canete, one of the main Kali guys, says that many of the "dumog"
>> or grappling locks in modern Kali are from aikido. The modern form of
>> Kali teaches a fifteen lock flow. Kote-gaeshi is the first in Kali's
>> lock flow, and nikyo and sankyo follow soon ... familiar stuff for the
>> aikidoka.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15e855FQRco
>>
>
>I like this. It's a great way to get the hang of the major hand/arm
>locks in a cohesive repetitive training pattern. Awesome.
>
>As I was watching I was reminded of how much trust is involved in
>training.

It's all about trust. In the beginning one trusts the teacher not to
hurt him. The teacher has learned to trust himself not to hurt the
student.

I think there are three things involved: learning what your body can
do, authorizing your body to do it, and not doing it. The last part
is the most important part, the part that demands the most spiritual
development.

[noname]

"Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:

>Awaken21 wrote:
>> We have a quite of few police types who train at the dojo who also
>> disagree strenuously with idiots who believe aikido is impractical. I
>> always felt like people who thought aikido was impractical were just
>> ignorant, but I don't ever really have reason to test my beliefs,
>> thankfully. Police do though.
>
>It's easy to see why some people claim that Aikido doesn't work. The basic
>techniques are really just the baby steps, the means through which one
>acquires the fundamental principles of movement. Learning only the basic
>techniques and thinking that you've learned Aikido, you frequently find that
>technique lets you down. It's only with years of practice that your body
>begins to 'understand' the principles, and then the techniques don't matter
>so much (like there's no need to keep your focus on the alphabet when you
>can read and write fluently).

In yoga it isn't the poses that are important (except that you can
hold them) but how you move between them, and I suspect that's the
same for any physical discipline. A simple horse-stance isn't so
important in-itself except that you can hold it, but where it locates
within a flow, how it is entered and left, is not just holding it but
giving meaning to it.

[web head]

On Nov 25, 6:33 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:

martial arts would be a worthwhile suggestion to my dad for my new
kinda brother... he's going to be pretty bored when the newness wears
off and needs a way to meet kids outside school (where who knows how
they will treat him).

[noname]

I don't think martial arts are really about whupass... more about
spirtual development through a physical discipline of movement... but
I guess they're about whatever you make them about.

I'm not sure what a "new kinda brother" might be, other than a kinda
scary concept; I'm gonna assume it's human and not ask. <g>

[web head]

On Nov 25, 8:42 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:

i'm really not sure. he's meant to have problems but it's really hard
to tell for me because i see too much of it positively somehow.

i wasn't thinking much of whooping ass as doing something to focus him
that he enjoys and can lead to many different things too.

[Awaken21]

On Nov 25, 1:18 am, "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
> Awaken21 wrote:
> > We have a quite of few police types who train at the dojo who also
> > disagree strenuously with idiots who believe aikido is impractical. I
> > always felt like people who thought aikido was impractical were just
> > ignorant, but I don't ever really have reason to test my beliefs,
> > thankfully. Police do though.
>
> It's easy to see why some people claim that Aikido doesn't work. The basic
> techniques are really just the baby steps, the means through which one
> acquires the fundamental principles of movement. Learning only the basic
> techniques and thinking that you've learned Aikido, you frequently find that
> technique lets you down.
> It's only with years of practice that your body
> begins to 'understand' the principles, and then the techniques don't matter
> so much (like there's no need to keep your focus on the alphabet when you
> can read and write fluently).

Technique alone always lets you down no matter what the pursuit. Which
isn't to say there isn't a great benefit to mastering the technique.
But it is to say there is great harm in depending on technique for
mastery of the art. Even in practical application technique isn't a
magic bullet.

To be fair there are people for whom aikido will not work, but that
has to with their mentality, not aikido itself. That also applies to
any martial art in general and a great many things beyond martial
arts.

> My instructor, who has sadly retired due to a
> stroke, once said that people who persevere with Aikido are a strange
> kind -- they've come to understand that they're taking on an impossible
> task, and yet they push on with it. It's like realising you've jumped into a
> bottomless pool and yet continuing to swim deeper, and it's that aspect that
> hooked me.

Yes. When my oldest daughter came to live with me I enrolled her in
aikido which she did for years until she grew up and moved out. She
always maintained aikido people were like members of some strange
martial arts cult.

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:

> "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:
>> It's easy to see why some people claim that Aikido doesn't work. The
>> basic techniques are really just the baby steps, the means through
>> which one acquires the fundamental principles of movement. Learning
>> only the basic techniques and thinking that you've learned Aikido,
>> you frequently find that technique lets you down.
>> It's only with years of practice that your body
>> begins to 'understand' the principles, and then the techniques don't
>> matter so much (like there's no need to keep your focus on the
>> alphabet when you can read and write fluently).
>
> Technique alone always lets you down no matter what the pursuit. Which
> isn't to say there isn't a great benefit to mastering the technique.
> But it is to say there is great harm in depending on technique for
> mastery of the art. Even in practical application technique isn't a
> magic bullet.
>
> To be fair there are people for whom aikido will not work, but that
> has to with their mentality, not aikido itself. That also applies to
> any martial art in general and a great many things beyond martial
> arts.

Just saying that it's easy to see why some people claim that Aikido doesn't
work. Beginners go home and try stuff out on their friends only to find out
that they can't "make it work" like it seems to work at the club (where the
guy they're partnered with is trying to give some guidance and cultivate an
interest). A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, but Kaitenage ain't so easy
to replicate just after you've been introduced to it. Reprogramming the
cerebellum takes commitment.

[web head]

tortoise and the hare... so many hares, so little time.

[Awaken21]

Yes. Understanding ALL the subtle nuance of physical positional and
situational circumstances that go into making one technique translate
into something usable inside and outside the dojo takes time and
repetition and sustained attentive interest over all.

I was also reffering though to the mentality specifically. Some people
just don't have the mental discipline aspects required under the
stress of a real life situation to pull it off. In a real fight time
is warped, normal thought isn't fast enough but everything else seems
slowed down. It's a very strange circumstance on many levels. Not
everyone is really prepared for it and replicating technique alone
isn't going to prepare you mentally to deal with it. Without it you've
literally got nothing.

[noname]

Then you might need to start with the things he likes rather than the
things you think would be good for him. Better yet, maybe just be
supportive while he works it out in his own way.

[web head]

i knewwwww you would say that.

don't worry. i have no plans, except to support him.

[pacman]

but if he's interested he'll show it... and if he's not.....

he's not someone you can drag by the ear to school.

and what kind of person would do that anyway?

[pacman]

it does help. just something about the approach to fighting maybe
makes you more integrated with the moment and aware with your whole
self. if you try to inject your own techniques into the moment (as the
victims in the video appear to be doing) too much, which is the
negative effect of practice, then you are inviting a fall.

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:
> "Andy" <not...@your.life> wrote:

Fighting isn't the reason I study Aikido -- if I wanted to be a fighter
I think I'd have chosen Boxing, although I have experienced the kind of time
warping to which you refer. It's really strange to suddenly switch into
"observer mode" and watch yourself in action as though you were watching a
movie, completely devoid of emotion, and seemingly with all the time in the
world. That said, I'd rather not have got into a fight at all, but you don't
have to go looking for trouble -- sometimes it comes looking for you.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8424788348717594255

[noname]

There are no accidents, only the effects of previous causation. Next
time you observe that a fight has come looking for you, review your
last dozen or so thoughts. Of course if a fight has manifest itself
upon your ass, you might think there isn't time for that, so try it
the next time you trip over a paving stone or something.

[Awaken21]

Except for the police and similar types I think that's true of most
people who practice aikido, and lots of other fighting arts as well.
For me it's just something I've done most of my life for fun. Some
people like football or basketball, I like martial arts... Ok I like
to watch football too. :)

> if I wanted to be a fighter
> I think I'd have chosen Boxing, although I have experienced the kind of time
> warping to which you refer. It's really strange to suddenly switch into
> "observer mode" and watch yourself in action as though you were watching a
> movie, completely devoid of emotion, and seemingly with all the time in the
> world. That said, I'd rather not have got into a fight at all, but you don't
> have to go looking for trouble -- sometimes it comes looking for you.
>

Yes. And sometimes those you love and care about and have
responsibility for.

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8424788348717594255

Resistance is futile! :)

[Kirsten]

On Nov 25, 9:06 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Fighting isn't the reason I study Aikido --
>
> Except for the police and similar types I think that's true of most
> people who practice aikido, and lots of other fighting arts as well.
> For me it's just something I've done most of my life for fun. Some
> people like football or basketball, I like martial arts... Ok I like
> to watch football too. :)
>

Like many folks I do martial arts primarily for the fitness,
comradeship and improved flexibility and co-ordination they offer.
I'm in real-life fights so infrequently (that would be, virtually
never) that it wouldn't be worth the six or so hours a week I spend
training if there weren't the side benefits.

I always joke with my lovely peace activist friends: you're in your
twenties, so you can eat cardboard and spend all day crashed on the
sofa, and still run around when you need to. Me, I have to eat well
and train hard.

On the other hand, one has to remember it isn't football we are doing;
I'm aware that some of the folks I encounter on the streets are just
plain mean (and I don't mean the cops who have their moments but are
generally fine). So, I do train mindfully that there will come a time
when this stuff is the difference between going home or going to
hospital.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[pacman]

in my fight last year i didn't really "fight" at all. we had played a
game of mercy when we were travelling together and speculated that
neither of us would win because of his strength and endurance vs my
flexibility and we were right, we had to give up undefeated. maybe if
i had continued in karate i'd have acted differently but when he
confronted me i tried to talk to his inner human being as a friend and
he walked away, then he returned and we wrestled. i was just keeping
myself just in control, and observing nasty little opportunities to
hurt him, knock him out, or kill him without much fighting. i couldn't
do it though and just tried to dance with him until he had overpowered
me, and had slammed my head into the ground many times. then i was
strangled and i think i lost consciousness and came back and he had
his fist over my face for me to see my last moment (at least with this
face) and i decided to release all opposition, which might seem pussy
to do but what was the point it wasn't just a strategy ....... i
didn't want to spend this time i had feeling anxious and fighting...
and there was no longer a point. then he broke down for a while, and
apologized and left, and then came back through the fence in his car
and again i had to go pussy (apparent)or violence. i had a weapon and
he had no hope but i ran.

i analyse what happened and think we're both lucky.

[Kirsten]

On Nov 26, 11:05 am, pacman <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i analyse what happened and think we're both lucky.

I really think you are: my learning is that you never regret
restraint, and always regret letting loose.

It's why I really think if some fucked up guy asks for your wallet,
hand it over with a blessing. Cards are replaced by the end of the
week, the memory goes in the same time. And the guy is still fucked
up, whereas you, me have great lives. So who wins?

The flip side is, having been restrained and tried to get away, if
they still keep coming, then do what you have to. It's why I really
admire aikido guys: they can put an end to violence without damaging
folk.

Best wishes
Kirsten

[Awaken21]

On Nov 26, 8:37 am, Kirsten <kirr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's why I really
> admire aikido guys: they can put an end to violence without damaging
> folk.
>

Theoretically. Sometimes when you lock someone outside the dojo they
resist in ways that are harmful to themselves. Also when you throw
someone to the ground outside the dojo they don't know how fall
either. Just watching causes you to say things like 'ouch' and
'yikes'.

[web head]

if i was thrown out i would have probably stuck around a bit longer.

[Andy]

When you practice regularly with friendly and competent people that have
been trained to fall without injuring themselves and are falling on large
rubber mats, your concern for the safety of your attacker almost gets
trained out of you (except that you take care not to clash with others on
the mat). It's often struck me that if some of these techniques engaged
automatically when attacked outside the dojo by somebody not used to
falling, and falling on a concrete sidewalk, they might not get up again
ever. It might end up with me wishing I'd never started to practice Aikido.

[Tang Huyen]

On 11/26/2011 10:33 AM, Andy wrote:

> Awaken21:

>> Kirsten:

You folks are talking about physical events
that happen out there in the real world.

You talk of Aikido, which means "the way to
pull the inner energy [qi] together", and by
the way Judo means "the way of softness" (ju,
Chinese ru, means soft, softness).

In here, on these boards, we have only mere
words on the screen, and we even enjoy the
protection of asynchronicity, unlike in the
real world where you have to react instantly,
in person, especially in the case of physical
attack. Yet people who make grandiose claims
about "egolessness", "awareness" and
"stillness" blow up automatically and put up
extreme resistance when challenged, with
mere words on the screen. And they do so on
a daily basis.

The first lesson in mental culture is, do
not put up resistance. It seems that many
(presumably) grooved-in experts in mental
culture have never learnt this elementary
lesson, though they can talk sleek talk.

Tang Huyen

[web head]

i still have a neck injury from an flame war in 1998. i think of it
like one of those superhero moments when you get your powers (a lot of
my energy playing up is around a blockage in the neck). i somersaulted
over the back of my chair and really hurt myself... actually i'm not
sure if it was a flame war or a really good joke.

[Awaken21]

Perhaps. What's more likely is because your trained the situation will
never get that far. And if it does escalate out of control they're
still be better off than if you weren't trained at all. You have far
more options that allow you to meet the situation with an appropriate
response.

From experience I can tell you that even within the fight you can feel
something is off in their response and react to that. I've thrown non-
trained folks 3 or 4 times and in every case I had options about
limiting, or not, the damage they took as I was releasing them.

[Tim]

On Nov 26, 9:53 am, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]>
wrote:

> You folks are talking about physical events
> that happen out there in the real world.

Ohhhh... yikes... ouch.... Tang. Years to here only to blow it in the
dying moments of the game. At least you have not lost touch with what
the word "real" is connected to.

Out there in the real world. Is that what mental culture means to you?
It seems to me that the story goes that a monk and his student were
watching a flag blow in the wind.

In more modern context a monk is taking a pool shot. In his mind
(there is only me) he lines it up. A true rail runner to the corner
pocket. After he releases the trigger and transfers the mental force
through the pool stick and hits the cue ball, all that mental energy
translates into the real world. The Fool. God. Tao. The, there is no
me. And perfection takes over.

When what is on the inside is the same as what is on the outside,
there is no where to go, not even in death.

Being one of my oldest students here Tang, remember when I was out of
my mind? And yet, 13 years later, is that not my mind, as promised,
that has filled your real world?

Lucifer

[Andy]

Awaken21 wrote:
> From experience I can tell you that even within the fight you can feel
> something is off in their response and react to that. I've thrown non-
> trained folks 3 or 4 times and in every case I had options about
> limiting, or not, the damage they took as I was releasing them.

Maybe, but sometimes I think the best option for me would be
to just run away. Better than a homicide charge anyway.

[noname]

You describe one side of the coin well, but you do not mention its
other side.

Forgetting about claims for a moment, consider such resistance as a
request for help from those who, although they honestly believe
themselves to be "grooved-in", still have a fixed view that is less
than comfortable for them. Resistance that says "you are full of
shit!" can often (at least often, perhaps always) be translated to
mean "please help me see how that works".

Then there is the funny-haha side of it, where those who consider
resistance to be a request infuriate those who are "grooved-in" by
attempting to fulfill their request. <g>

[Tim]

On Nov 26, 12:35 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:

> You describe one side of the coin well, but you do not mention its
> other side.

Mmmmm. That is a tasty piece of meat noname.

He rejects it as a mental impossibility from the pov, there is only me
and this "buddha dharma" I am not.

Lucifer

[noname]

Better to run than to fight; better yet to be where there is no fight.

[Awaken21]

Oh hell yes. If that's a viable option why not? As we talked about
earlier though, it's not always your choice.

[Andy]

There's the rub.

[Awaken21]

Reality is so god damned uncooperative at times.

[noname]

Once you've made a choice it follows you forward, if it leads you to a
place you learn you'd rather not be, you can only accept that or fight
against accepting it; acceptance with understanding can change the
world because that too is a choice: there are no accidents, only the
effects of previous cause.


[quote: from Dhammapada 1, Choices, Byrom translation]

With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with a pure mind
And happiness will follow you
As your shadow, unshakable.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed
me."
Live with such thoughts and you live in
hate.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed
me."
Abandon such thoughts, and live in
love.
In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

[end quote]


It is easy to claim, hard to live.

--
Compassion improves nothing through departure from the path.

[ZisntZ]

Tang Huyen wrote:

= > You folks are talking about physical events
= > that happen out there in the real world.

Right, do not resist the real world which is not 'out' from anywhere.
It is real everywhere always.