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Biblical Forgiveness

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Mattb.

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Jul 3, 2016, 12:41:12 AM7/3/16
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http://bible-truth.org/msg83.html

by Cooper P. Abrams III


I. DOES GOD REQUIRE YOU TO FORGIVE AND FORGET?

I think we know the answer to that, but lets see what the Bible
says. An unforgiving, vengeful, or bitter spirit will not only
effect us and those around us, it will separate us from the blessing
of God. Therefore we must forgive others no matter what the offense.


And

CONCLUSION:

Sir Walter Scott had difficulty with the idea of "turning the
other cheek." But Jesus' words took on special meaning one day when
Scott threw a rock at a stray dog to chase it away. His aim was
straighter and his delivery stronger than he had intended, for he hit
the animal and broke its leg. Instead of running off, the dog limped
over to him and licked his hand. Sir Walter never forgot that
touching response. He said, "That dog preached the Sermon on the
Mount to me as few ministers have ever presented it." Scott said he
had not found human beings so ready to forgive their enemies.


With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
interesting article.


Matt

Lucifer Morningstar

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Jul 3, 2016, 2:38:43 AM7/3/16
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 21:41:58 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
>http://bible-truth.org/msg83.html
>
>by Cooper P. Abrams III
>
>
>I. DOES GOD REQUIRE YOU TO FORGIVE AND FORGET?

Does God expect us to forgive him?

> I think we know the answer to that, but lets see what the Bible
>says. An unforgiving, vengeful, or bitter spirit will not only
>effect us and those around us, it will separate us from the blessing
>of God. Therefore we must forgive others no matter what the offense.

That can't happen because we have already been effected by
our parents. To effect something is to cause it to exist.

>And
>
>CONCLUSION:
>
> Sir Walter Scott had difficulty with the idea of "turning the
>other cheek." But Jesus' words took on special meaning one day when
>Scott threw a rock at a stray dog to chase it away. His aim was
>straighter and his delivery stronger than he had intended, for he hit
>the animal and broke its leg. Instead of running off, the dog limped
>over to him and licked his hand. Sir Walter never forgot that
>touching response. He said, "That dog preached the Sermon on the
>Mount to me as few ministers have ever presented it." Scott said he
>had not found human beings so ready to forgive their enemies.

If you forgive your enemies they will see it as a weakness to
exploit.

>With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>interesting article.

Its a stupid article because its not realistic.

>Matt

--

It's actually quite easy for a creationist to make an atheist feel humiliated...
He just has to remind him that they both belong to the same species

PATRICK

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Jul 3, 2016, 8:35:50 AM7/3/16
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Nice post.

duke

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Jul 3, 2016, 8:38:30 AM7/3/16
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 21:41:58 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com> wrote:

>
Sir Walter was not a Roman Catholic. He was a Presbyterian.

>Matt

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

PATRICK

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Jul 3, 2016, 8:38:51 AM7/3/16
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Gosh, I suppose you don't like many creative things then.
Like art. Lighten up.

MattB

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Jul 3, 2016, 1:35:37 PM7/3/16
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OK does it matter in this case?

PATRICK

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Jul 3, 2016, 3:21:24 PM7/3/16
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:35:39 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Which case is that?
Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?

MattB

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Jul 3, 2016, 8:26:14 PM7/3/16
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 15:21:26 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
I posted to the following NGs "
alt.bible,alt.christian.religion,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic"

Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
into this thread. Sadly you did.

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).

PATRICK

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Jul 4, 2016, 7:56:41 AM7/4/16
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 17:26:17 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
Why?
What do you get out of it?



>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>into this thread. Sadly you did.

I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?



>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).

Wonderful.
Do you like Bible scripture?
How about Zephania, chap 3

1Woe to the city, rebellious and polluted, to the tyrannical city!

2She hears no voice, accepts no correction; In the LORD she has not
trusted, to her God she has not drawn near.

duke

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Jul 4, 2016, 7:56:52 AM7/4/16
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:35:39 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

If he was a Roman Catholic, he would already be in tune with "turning the other
cheek". Too many fundies spend all their time in the Jewish OT, and thus don't
live according to that principle not given until Christianity and the new
covenant.

duke

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Jul 4, 2016, 7:58:51 AM7/4/16
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Being truthful does not bring negativity. If you understood, you wouldn't be a
fundie.

>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>
>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).

Yep, Jesus and the new covenant.

MattB

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Jul 4, 2016, 3:17:30 PM7/4/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 07:56:44 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
Am I suppose to get something out of this?
>
>
>
>>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>>into this thread. Sadly you did.
>
>I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?

Really don't care what you like or dislike. This was a lesson. A
message and it let people see what you and Duke really are and your
motivations, and they have nothing to do with God.


>
>
>
>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>
>Wonderful.
>Do you like Bible scripture?

???


>How about Zephania, chap 3
>
>1Woe to the city, rebellious and polluted, to the tyrannical city!
>
>2She hears no voice, accepts no correction; In the LORD she has not
>trusted, to her God she has not drawn near.

Now this goes back to my original question that set you off ""How much
of the Old Testament are we required to live by and how do we know?""
on the above I'd say I'd would think the proper course is to follow
Jesus words. You can safely ignore Zephania.

Also there are Christians in Ethiopia. Me I ignore the hate.



MattB

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Jul 4, 2016, 3:18:50 PM7/4/16
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Again my point is made.
>
>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>
>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>
>Yep, Jesus and the new covenant.

Yes isn't that what the RCC teaches?

MattB

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Jul 4, 2016, 3:19:35 PM7/4/16
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duke

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Jul 4, 2016, 4:28:24 PM7/4/16
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Just as Jesus teaches.

Lucifer Morningstar

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Jul 4, 2016, 4:32:17 PM7/4/16
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So RCCers are fundies?

>the dukester, American-American

PATRICK

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Jul 4, 2016, 5:31:53 PM7/4/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 12:17:35 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
I eat to satisfy my hunger.
\I watch TV for news.
I post on this newsgroup to keep liars from going unanswered.



>>>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>>>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>>>into this thread. Sadly you did.
>>
>>I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>>Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?
>
>Really don't care what you like or dislike. This was a lesson. A
>message and it let people see what you and Duke really are and your
>motivations, and they have nothing to do with God.

Why would you think Catholics would be interested in some non-Catholic
from 400 years ago?



>>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>>
>>Wonderful.
>>Do you like Bible scripture?
>
>???
>
>
>>How about Zephania, chap 3
>>
>>1Woe to the city, rebellious and polluted, to the tyrannical city!
>>
>>2She hears no voice, accepts no correction; In the LORD she has not
>>trusted, to her God she has not drawn near.
>
>Now this goes back to my original question that set you off ""How much
>of the Old Testament are we required to live by and how do we know?""
>on the above I'd say I'd would think the proper course is to follow
>Jesus words. You can safely ignore Zephania.
>
>Also there are Christians in Ethiopia. Me I ignore the hate.

There are also Christians in China.

PATRICK

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Jul 4, 2016, 5:32:45 PM7/4/16
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matty thinks so.
Ask him.

Mattb.

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Jul 4, 2016, 5:42:06 PM7/4/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 17:31:58 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
What in the original post was a lie?
>
>
>
>>>>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>>>>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>>>>into this thread. Sadly you did.
>>>
>>>I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>>>Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?
>>
>>Really don't care what you like or dislike. This was a lesson. A
>>message and it let people see what you and Duke really are and your
>>motivations, and they have nothing to do with God.
>
>Why would you think Catholics would be interested in some non-Catholic
>from 400 years ago?

It is the Message that matters.
>
>
>
>>>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>>>
>>>Wonderful.
>>>Do you like Bible scripture?
>>
>>???
>>
>>
>>>How about Zephania, chap 3
>>>
>>>1Woe to the city, rebellious and polluted, to the tyrannical city!
>>>
>>>2She hears no voice, accepts no correction; In the LORD she has not
>>>trusted, to her God she has not drawn near.
>>
>>Now this goes back to my original question that set you off ""How much
>>of the Old Testament are we required to live by and how do we know?""
>>on the above I'd say I'd would think the proper course is to follow
>>Jesus words. You can safely ignore Zephania.
>>
>>Also there are Christians in Ethiopia. Me I ignore the hate.
>
>There are also Christians in China.

Have you ever even read Zephania?



Mattb.

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Jul 4, 2016, 5:43:39 PM7/4/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 17:32:50 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
Not all of them. Duke and Patrick very much so.

PATRICK

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Jul 4, 2016, 9:17:29 PM7/4/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:42:12 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
What did you say?



>>>>>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>>>>>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>>>>>into this thread. Sadly you did.
>>>>
>>>>I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>>>>Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?
>>>
>>>Really don't care what you like or dislike. This was a lesson. A
>>>message and it let people see what you and Duke really are and your
>>>motivations, and they have nothing to do with God.
>>
>>Why would you think Catholics would be interested in some non-Catholic
>>from 400 years ago?
>
>It is the Message that matters.

What was the message?
You know, if you feel there is a message, you should proclaim it.


>>>>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>>>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>>>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>>>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>>>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>>>>
>>>>Wonderful.
>>>>Do you like Bible scripture?
>>>
>>>???
>>>
>>>
>>>>How about Zephania, chap 3
>>>>
>>>>1Woe to the city, rebellious and polluted, to the tyrannical city!
>>>>
>>>>2She hears no voice, accepts no correction; In the LORD she has not
>>>>trusted, to her God she has not drawn near.
>>>
>>>Now this goes back to my original question that set you off ""How much
>>>of the Old Testament are we required to live by and how do we know?""
>>>on the above I'd say I'd would think the proper course is to follow
>>>Jesus words. You can safely ignore Zephania.
>>>
>>>Also there are Christians in Ethiopia. Me I ignore the hate.
>>
>>There are also Christians in China.
>
>Have you ever even read Zephania?

1Juda-te lal Amona fapa Josia lal laia Lalpa thu Zephania, Kusia fapa,
Gedalia fapa, Amaria fapa, Hezekia fapa hnęna lo thleng chu.
2“Lei chung ata thil zawng zawng ka tiral vek ang,” tih hi
Lalpa thuchhuak a ni.
3“Mihring leh sate ka tiral ang a;
Chunglęng savate leh tuipui
sanghate ka tiral ang a;
Mi sualte chu ka titlu ang a;
Lei chung ata mihring ka tibo daih ang,” tih hi
Lalpa thuchhuak a ni.
4“Juda-te leh Jerusalem luahtute zawng zawng chungah
Ka kut ka lek ang a; he hmun a?ang
hian Baala la awm chhunte,
Kemarim hming chu puithiamho chawpin,

duke

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Jul 5, 2016, 8:16:57 AM7/5/16
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:32:27 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
They can be, if they act like protest_ants.

duke

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Jul 5, 2016, 8:17:57 AM7/5/16
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Sound confirmation that you are clueless as to what a fundie is. Also that you
yourself are one and not Patrick nor I.

Rod

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Jul 5, 2016, 9:12:12 AM7/5/16
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You are your brothers keeper. Put yourself
in the place of the dog, then of Sir Walter.
Doesn't it make more sense to treat those
around you with kindness ? Yes..it's hard;
nothing this worthwhile is ever easy, and
people can be very ungrateful. Give, never
expecting it to be returned. Many times those
that you help were not in a position to help
themselves, so returning it then and there
won't happen...but there are some people that
won't forget something exceptional like this,
and you will here from them again.

Forgiving without expecting it to be returned,
or realizing that you could be in the wrong to
start with, and having the heart to make right
a wrong. That would be Sir Walter in this case.




Lucifer Morningstar

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Jul 5, 2016, 9:18:00 AM7/5/16
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Fundies are those who follow God's word to the letter, right?

Lucifer Morningstar

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Jul 5, 2016, 9:19:01 AM7/5/16
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Fundies are those that follow God's word to the letter, right?

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 10:54:48 AM7/5/16
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Excellent analysis.
Thank you, Rod.

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 10:56:42 AM7/5/16
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 23:19:11 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
Nope.
Not even close.
Fundies are those who INTERPRET scripture in a false way and demand or
force others to accept their interpretation of this scripture.

MattB

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Jul 5, 2016, 1:59:46 PM7/5/16
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On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 08:12:10 -0500, Rod <nhra...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK Rod remember I posted the article.

These weren't my replies to it


"Sir Walter was not a Roman Catholic. He was a Presbyterian. "

"Which case is that?
Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"

"Why?
What do you get out of it?"

Rod Can you explain why Duke and Patrick even attacked this thread?

To me they act like Dolf.

This was my comment

"With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
interesting article."

So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??

MattB

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Jul 5, 2016, 2:02:36 PM7/5/16
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 21:17:33 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
More headgames I see.
>Gedalia fapa, Amaria fapa, Hezekia fapa hnêna lo thleng chu.
>2“Lei chung ata thil zawng zawng ka tiral vek ang,” tih hi
>Lalpa thuchhuak a ni.
>3“Mihring leh sate ka tiral ang a;
>Chunglêng savate leh tuipui
>sanghate ka tiral ang a;
>Mi sualte chu ka titlu ang a;
>Lei chung ata mihring ka tibo daih ang,” tih hi
>Lalpa thuchhuak a ni.
>4“Juda-te leh Jerusalem luahtute zawng zawng chungah
>Ka kut ka lek ang a; he hmun a?ang
>hian Baala la awm chhunte,
>Kemarim hming chu puithiamho chawpin,


Cut and Paste oh how hard. Please.

Your replies show you haven't read and understand this scripture and
what the condition were when written.

Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.

You will come visit me and are an expert with guns (turns out you
passed basic in the AF LOL). You will have a throw down weapon.
Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
expert ROFL

Then you are going to Montana and will bring your son-in-law either
Christopher or Mehmet who will all stay on Malmstrom Air Force Base
so he can shoot "injuns" up near Great Falls.

You claim to be Rich a lie. You also claim to have a copy of my birth
certificate yet don't know my middle name or my parents real names.
Don't even know where I was apparently born.

Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?


MattB

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Jul 5, 2016, 2:06:07 PM7/5/16
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You are RCC Fundie hate filled lying assholes both of you.

MattB

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Jul 5, 2016, 2:08:34 PM7/5/16
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:56:47 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
There you go. Fits you completely as well as Duke. Patrick Barker
that fits you completely. Going to use that.

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 5:18:34 PM7/5/16
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MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.
>You will come visit me and are an expert with guns (turns out you
>passed basic in the AF LOL). You will have a throw down weapon.
>Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
>expert ROFL
>Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
>to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?

I know you are trying to provoke me.
I forgive you for your loss of self-control.

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 5:25:06 PM7/5/16
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If you ask me, I will tell you.
Nothing was "WRONG" with the post.
However, I commented:
" Sir Walter was not a Roman Catholic. He was a Presbyterian."
This was not a headgame. This was not an insult. It was a statement.
Sometimes I wonder why people bring up stories about non-Catholics
from 400 years ago and I see no moral or point to it.

I then asked you: "What do you get out of it?"

If there was not point, and if you thought it was just an interesting
article, why didn't you post it to facebook?
This is a "Newsgroup" We discuss news stories.

Oh well, I forgive you for being so angry.

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 5:26:52 PM7/5/16
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:08:43 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
OK.
I don't mind.
Just use it when I am interpreting scripture.
Please don't use it in your normal insulting way.

PATRICK

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Jul 5, 2016, 5:27:47 PM7/5/16
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MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>You are RCC Fundie hate filled lying assholes both of you.

WOW.
You really need some prayers for your anger.

Rod

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 5:35:01 PM7/5/16
to
Matt...it was a good article. I read thru the thread
and Patrick even said so.

And I liked it as well.

The only way you can ever understand thoroughly
what it is to be a catholic or to be a Presbyterian
or protestant is to live as they live.

Experience bestows wisdom and understanding. Without
it all is guesswork.


>
> These weren't my replies to it
>
>
> "Sir Walter was not a Roman Catholic. He was a Presbyterian. "
>
> "Which case is that?
> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>
> "Why?
> What do you get out of it?"
>
> Rod Can you explain why Duke and Patrick even attacked this thread?

Anyone outside the catholic faith is rarely seen as a Christian,
but their comments were not so much an attack as they were statements
on knowledge based up the things I have described below about how
some protestant groups take verses out of context, even teaching
you the wrong things in some cases.

I don't believe they realized that you would not be able to see their
point of view, being a non catholic.


>
> To me they act like Dolf.

They haven't given you a thousand + lines of I'm not sure what
yet or spammed your mailbox.

Duke and Patrick, you know what they are talking about. With Dolf,
....I don't know....it's crazy stuff, but it's coming out of his head
and I viewed some legal papers that say he may have aids or HIV,
and I wish I had know that before I got onto him about spamming my
inbox...I would have shut up and let him talk...maybe it helps him
feel better..I don't know...


>
> This was my comment
>
> "With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
> interesting article."
>
> So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??
>

Mostly it's the Presbyterian thing, Matt. Other faiths are seen
as if they are not in the body of Christ, and for very good reason
in many cases. In the church you have support and guidance from
laity and the priesthood alike. Years and years of study and
experience there to guide people in how to live in Christ. Those outside
the church have it much harder, and many of their interpretations of
scripture can get very radical, like the intentional
handling of rattlesnakes in services.


It's human nature: things get out of hand.

MattB

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 6:13:16 PM7/5/16
to
That is true. Experience does.

That is why from time to time I have attended Mass and other Churches
services.
>
>
>>
>> These weren't my replies to it
>>
>>
>> "Sir Walter was not a Roman Catholic. He was a Presbyterian. "
>>
>> "Which case is that?
>> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>>
>> "Why?
>> What do you get out of it?"
>>
>> Rod Can you explain why Duke and Patrick even attacked this thread?
>
> Anyone outside the catholic faith is rarely seen as a Christian,
> but their comments were not so much an attack as they were statements
> on knowledge based up the things I have described below about how
> some protestant groups take verses out of context, even teaching
> you the wrong things in some cases.

Then they should have showed how it was out of context.

Catholics have done the same. Purgatory is a example.
>
> I don't believe they realized that you would not be able to see their
>point of view, being a non catholic.

Sounds like what a Stalinist would say about me not understanding
Stalinism or socialism. No matter how many times liberals try to
explain it to me just don't get it.

Also this was said by Patrick
"Which case is that?
Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"

What was the point Patrick is not a moderator.

>
>
>>
>> To me they act like Dolf.
>
> They haven't given you a thousand + lines of I'm not sure what
> yet or spammed your mailbox.

No but there intent is much the same they are trolling. Simple.


>
> Duke and Patrick, you know what they are talking about. With Dolf,
> ....I don't know....it's crazy stuff, but it's coming out of his head
> and I viewed some legal papers that say he may have aids or HIV,
> and I wish I had know that before I got onto him about spamming my
> inbox...I would have shut up and let him talk...maybe it helps him
> feel better..I don't know...

Actually Patrick I don't understand what he says at time after he has
edited a post. He ask the same question over and over and you might
think he is just not understanding but he is looking for Troll dirt
something to attack, Simple.


>
>
>>
>> This was my comment
>>
>> "With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>> interesting article."
>>
>> So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??
>>
>
> Mostly it's the Presbyterian thing, Matt. Other faiths are seen
> as if they are not in the body of Christ, and for very good reason
> in many cases. In the church you have support and guidance from
> laity and the priesthood alike. Years and years of study and
>experience there to guide people in how to live in Christ. Those outside
>the church have it much harder, and many of their interpretations of
>scripture can get very radical, like the intentional
>handling of rattlesnakes in services.

Yet if it is just because it is "the Presbyterian thing" that is
against the teachings of Jesus.


>
>
> It's human nature: things get out of hand.

True.

For the Record I no longer consider Patrick and Duke Catholic or even
Christian. I've printed out some of Ear Weber's more colorful post
as well as Patrick's and have it on good authority they don't
represent the best of the RCC.


MattB

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 6:14:07 PM7/5/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:18:40 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:
Haven't lost control. That would take more than you have the ability
to do.

MattB

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 6:15:51 PM7/5/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:25:11 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:
Good I'll post some more, I'll take this as your request.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 7:37:58 PM7/5/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:13:23 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
Poor matt has gone off the deep end.
He looks for trouble and seems to want to be a victim.
Oh well.
Patrick does not pretend to be the best of the RCC.
Patrick claims to be a simple Catholic, wishing to straighten out
incorrect thinking about the Roman Catholic Church.
We (Catholics) are not pagans, or mithra worshippers, or idol
worshippers, or devil worshippers.
We (Catholics) believe the following:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge
the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he
is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic
and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism
for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

Rod

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 7:48:30 PM7/5/16
to
I'm sorry Matt..I didn't intend it to sound that way
or belittle you. It is like I said above; experience
is the best teacher. Being a part of something alters
your vision and it becomes either for the good, revealing
spiritual things, or for the worse and concealing them. If
you eyes are open some and you do understand many things
of catholic life then all the better for you. From where
I am I have no way of knowing what you know.

There are some things that catholics experience in worship
or while meditating on God that there are no words to express
that I know of.

How would you go about explaining a voice speaking from a
fire, or a creature leaping out of it ? Drugs? Hallucinations?
I would not be able to and sound sane. Many people do not
understand what they do not experience.
We all have our weak moments.

Mattb.

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 8:00:30 PM7/5/16
to
That could be said to apply to all Christians.
>
> How would you go about explaining a voice speaking from a
> fire, or a creature leaping out of it ? Drugs? Hallucinations?
> I would not be able to and sound sane. Many people do not
> understand what they do not experience.

True
This is also true.

Rod

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 8:55:09 PM7/5/16
to
Maybe to all people...



>>
>> How would you go about explaining a voice speaking from a
>> fire, or a creature leaping out of it ? Drugs? Hallucinations?
>> I would not be able to and sound sane. Many people do not
>> understand what they do not experience.
>
> True

So...where do you go from here? What is it that you are seeking?


>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Also this was said by Patrick
>>> "Which case is that?
>>> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>>>
>>> What was the point Patrick is not a moderator.


Patrick is in a catholic group. You were speaking of Presbyterian..
(smiling...)politics..



>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To me they act like Dolf.
>>>>
>>>> They haven't given you a thousand + lines of I'm not sure what
>>>> yet or spammed your mailbox.
>>>
>>> No but there intent is much the same they are trolling. Simple.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Duke and Patrick, you know what they are talking about. With Dolf,
>>>> ....I don't know....it's crazy stuff, but it's coming out of his head
>>>> and I viewed some legal papers that say he may have aids or HIV,
>>>> and I wish I had know that before I got onto him about spamming my
>>>> inbox...I would have shut up and let him talk...maybe it helps him
>>>> feel better..I don't know...
>>>
>>> Actually Patrick I don't understand what he says at time after he has
>>> edited a post. He ask the same question over and over and you might
>>> think he is just not understanding but he is looking for Troll dirt
>>> something to attack, Simple.

he was prompting you to think about something,
testing to see if you had been, perhaps? Just guessing,
I cannot see the mind unless I can see the eyes.


>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This was my comment
>>>>>
>>>>> "With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>>>>> interesting article."
>>>>>
>>>>> So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mostly it's the Presbyterian thing, Matt. Other faiths are seen
>>>> as if they are not in the body of Christ, and for very good reason
>>>> in many cases. In the church you have support and guidance from
>>>> laity and the priesthood alike. Years and years of study and
>>>> experience there to guide people in how to live in Christ. Those outside
>>>> the church have it much harder, and many of their interpretations of
>>>> scripture can get very radical, like the intentional
>>>> handling of rattlesnakes in services.
>>>
>>> Yet if it is just because it is "the Presbyterian thing" that is
>>> against the teachings of Jesus.

That rests with what they are teaching...some people that
have branched away from the catholic church have started
small cults like the santa morte cult. So it is with many
faiths. Buddhism did not begin as a religion; it is what
the people practicing it turned their practices too. Some
worship and pray to their ancestors...but all people born
are seeking something greater than themselves in the end,
many not having an idea what that would be.


>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's human nature: things get out of hand.
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>> For the Record I no longer consider Patrick and Duke Catholic or even
>>> Christian. I've printed out some of Ear Weber's more colorful post
>>> as well as Patrick's and have it on good authority they don't
>>> represent the best of the RCC.

So...what is it that you think they are if not catholic? Catholic
means universal...that is a wide definition covering a very big
spectrum of people. Most of south america is catholic..


>>>
>>>
>> We all have our weak moments.
>
> This is also true.
>

I need to slow down and type better...

•RLMeasures

unread,
Jul 5, 2016, 10:51:20 PM7/5/16
to
In article <qbionbt6fa24ipcr6...@4ax.com>, Mattb.
АА With those two dessert-time is such a moment.

Lucifer Morningstar

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 12:05:10 AM7/6/16
to
Should we forgive God?

Nicholi Trapolsky

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 12:45:04 AM7/6/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:06:16 -0700, MattB vomited forth:
You come with friend to Bulgaria. We get you straight. You no feel
like whipped dog. He come hunt hog, you come too. september.


MattB

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 12:52:51 AM7/6/16
to
That will require thought.

>What is it that you are seeking?

Religion without hate, Religion without all the arrogance we see.
Basically no fundies in the world :-)). Oh and world peace (Smiling)

Going to make wishes wish then big
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also this was said by Patrick
>>>> "Which case is that?
>>>> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>>>>
>>>> What was the point Patrick is not a moderator.
>
>
> Patrick is in a catholic group. You were speaking of Presbyterian..
> (smiling...)politics..

Not going anywhere. Patrick is free to form a moderated group and
build a commune like Jim Jones had. Religion and Politics or the
politics within religion are difficult. There is no perfect Church
and no one church is needed for salvation according to the Bible. Even
if Patrick is trying to say so.
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me they act like Dolf.
>>>>>
>>>>> They haven't given you a thousand + lines of I'm not sure what
>>>>> yet or spammed your mailbox.
>>>>
>>>> No but there intent is much the same they are trolling. Simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Duke and Patrick, you know what they are talking about. With Dolf,
>>>>> ....I don't know....it's crazy stuff, but it's coming out of his head
>>>>> and I viewed some legal papers that say he may have aids or HIV,
>>>>> and I wish I had know that before I got onto him about spamming my
>>>>> inbox...I would have shut up and let him talk...maybe it helps him
>>>>> feel better..I don't know...
>>>>
>>>> Actually Patrick I don't understand what he says at time after he has
>>>> edited a post. He ask the same question over and over and you might
>>>> think he is just not understanding but he is looking for Troll dirt
>>>> something to attack, Simple.
>
> he was prompting you to think about something,
> testing to see if you had been, perhaps? Just guessing,
> I cannot see the mind unless I can see the eyes.

You are defending him just because he is in RCC in my opinion. If he
did the same thing and was say Presbyterian would you excuse his words
and attitude so easily?


>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was my comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>>>>>> interesting article."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mostly it's the Presbyterian thing, Matt. Other faiths are seen
>>>>> as if they are not in the body of Christ, and for very good reason
>>>>> in many cases. In the church you have support and guidance from
>>>>> laity and the priesthood alike. Years and years of study and
>>>>> experience there to guide people in how to live in Christ. Those outside
>>>>> the church have it much harder, and many of their interpretations of
>>>>> scripture can get very radical, like the intentional
>>>>> handling of rattlesnakes in services.
>>>>
>>>> Yet if it is just because it is "the Presbyterian thing" that is
>>>> against the teachings of Jesus.
>
> That rests with what they are teaching...some people that
> have branched away from the catholic church have started
> small cults like the santa morte cult. So it is with many
> faiths. Buddhism did not begin as a religion; it is what
> the people practicing it turned their practices too. Some
> worship and pray to their ancestors...but all people born
> are seeking something greater than themselves in the end,
> many not having an idea what that would be.

Yes but we are talking about what is in this article only. Not the
whole group right?


>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's human nature: things get out of hand.
>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>> For the Record I no longer consider Patrick and Duke Catholic or even
>>>> Christian. I've printed out some of Ear Weber's more colorful post
>>>> as well as Patrick's and have it on good authority they don't
>>>> represent the best of the RCC.
>
> So...what is it that you think they are if not catholic?

Not on a public forum

> Catholic
> means universal...that is a wide definition covering a very big
> spectrum of people. Most of south america is catholic..

So that doesn't make them right or wrong. Just popular.
>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> We all have our weak moments.
>>
>> This is also true.
>>
>
> I need to slow down and type better...

OK can do that. Been a busy week. Had quite a crowd yesterday and
Sunday.

Be Well

Matt

Lucifer Morningstar

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 8:46:03 AM7/6/16
to

Rod

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 9:57:06 AM7/6/16
to
>>>>>> of knowledge based upon the things I have described below about how
>>>>>> some protestant groups take verses out of context, even teaching
>>>>>> you the wrong things in some cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then they should have showed how it was out of context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Catholics have done the same. Purgatory is a example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe they realized that you would not be able to see their
>>>>>> point of view, being a non catholic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like what a Stalinist would say about me not understanding
>>>>> Stalinism or socialism. No matter how many times liberals try to
>>>>> explain it to me just don't get it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry Matt..I didn't intend it to sound that way
>>>> or belittle you. It is like I said above; experience
>>>> is the best teacher. Being a part of something alters
>>>> your vision and it becomes either for the good, revealing
>>>> spiritual things, or for the worse and concealing them. If
>>>> your eyes are open some and you do understand many things
>>>> of catholic life then all the better for you. From where
>>>> I am I have no way of knowing what you know.
>>>>
>>>> There are some things that catholics experience in worship
>>>> or while meditating on God that there are no words to express
>>>> that I know of.
>>>
>>> That could be said to apply to all Christians.
>>
>> Maybe to all people...
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> How would you go about explaining a voice speaking from a
>>>> fire, or a creature leaping out of it ? Drugs? Hallucinations?
>>>> I would not be able to and sound sane. Many people do not
>>>> understand what they do not experience.
>>>
>>> True
>>
>> So...where do you go from here?
>
> That will require thought.
>
>> What is it that you are seeking?
>
> Religion without hate, Religion without all the arrogance we see.
> Basically no fundies in the world :-)). Oh and world peace (Smiling)

You can start here:

James 1:26 If any man among you seemeth to be religious, and bridleth
not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is
this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to
keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then
peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good
fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by them that
make peace.


These verses have always been a big help mastering my worst enemy,
myself.

>
> Going to make wishes wish then big


Large miracles begin in small places.



>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also this was said by Patrick
>>>>> "Which case is that?
>>>>> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>>>>>
>>>>> What was the point Patrick is not a moderator.
>>
>>
>> Patrick is in a catholic group. You were speaking of Presbyterian..
>> (smiling...)politics..
>
> Not going anywhere. Patrick is free to form a moderated group and
> build a commune like Jim Jones had.

I can see Patrick waging war on a jim jones type
but not being one. Religion gets out of hand because
people get out of hand. Jim Jones took a nether route
to God...a man made view of what they believe God see's
and values, twisting truth without altering it's basic
form..a true evil.

It starts when a religious man recognizes that God does not value
flesh. From this point on things get twisted and demented by men,
distorted by them.



Religion and Politics or the
> politics within religion are difficult. There is no perfect Church
> and no one church is needed for salvation according to the Bible. Even
> if Patrick is trying to say so.
>>
>>
The church members are the followers of God, not the building they
meet in, not just the priests that serve God. You are right on one
aspect: there is no prefect church, yet the whole idea is to start
the people on a journey to perfection before God. It's a long walk for
us all, Matt. Sometimes people drop out for their own reasons to return
later in life; others never return but walk alone or with guidance of
the Holy Spirit, while others just don't seek God at all any longer.

Its a big world with many roads, only one road leads to God. It's a
small, hard to walk goat path. Lots of objects on the path, lots of
problems.




>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me they act like Dolf.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They haven't given you a thousand + lines of I'm not sure what
>>>>>> yet or spammed your mailbox.
>>>>>
>>>>> No but there intent is much the same they are trolling. Simple.

People differ. What is opinion of one man is trolling to another,
but trolls speak what they do to force an adverse reaction. We
are all guilty of that to some extent.


>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duke and Patrick, you know what they are talking about. With Dolf,
>>>>>> ....I don't know....it's crazy stuff, but it's coming out of his head
>>>>>> and I viewed some legal papers that say he may have aids or HIV,
>>>>>> and I wish I had know that before I got onto him about spamming my
>>>>>> inbox...I would have shut up and let him talk...maybe it helps him
>>>>>> feel better..I don't know...
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually Patrick I don't understand what he says at time after he has
>>>>> edited a post. He ask the same question over and over and you might
>>>>> think he is just not understanding but he is looking for Troll dirt
>>>>> something to attack, Simple.
>>
>> he was prompting you to think about something,
>> testing to see if you had been, perhaps? Just guessing,
>> I cannot see the mind unless I can see the eyes.
>
> You are defending him just because he is in RCC in my opinion.

I had a feeling that you would think this. You will see in time
what I am pointing at. He was probing you Matt.



> If he
> did the same thing and was say Presbyterian would you excuse his words
> and attitude so easily?


Yes. It is the person acting on belief that determines what actions
and words they take. The trick is to watch people quietly for long
periods of time. Watch how they react, what they say, how they say it.
Everything that comes of the mouth is a key to what lies in the heart;
some mouths use words that heal, others use words that hurt. This is
what two bible verses speak of, so when you speak think, is it for
their better and yours, or can any good come of it?

Matthew_12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak
good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke_6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth
forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of
his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the
heart his mouth speaketh.




>
>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was my comment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>>>>>>> interesting article."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you tell me before God what is the problem with my original post??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mostly it's the Presbyterian thing, Matt. Other faiths are seen
>>>>>> as if they are not in the body of Christ, and for very good reason
>>>>>> in many cases. In the church you have support and guidance from
>>>>>> laity and the priesthood alike. Years and years of study and
>>>>>> experience there to guide people in how to live in Christ. Those outside
>>>>>> the church have it much harder, and many of their interpretations of
>>>>>> scripture can get very radical, like the intentional
>>>>>> handling of rattlesnakes in services.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet if it is just because it is "the Presbyterian thing" that is
>>>>> against the teachings of Jesus.
>>
>> That rests with what they are teaching...some people that
>> have branched away from the catholic church have started
>> small cults like the santa morte cult. So it is with many
>> faiths. Buddhism did not begin as a religion; it is what
>> the people practicing it turned their practices too. Some
>> worship and pray to their ancestors...but all people born
>> are seeking something greater than themselves in the end,
>> many not having an idea what that would be.
>
> Yes but we are talking about what is in this article only. Not the
> whole group right?


It would be both in a sense. You have more than one faith
listed in the newsgroups line. Each one has differences,
no two groups agree on every point.


>
>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's human nature: things get out of hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> True.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the Record I no longer consider Patrick and Duke Catholic or even
>>>>> Christian. I've printed out some of Ear Weber's more colorful post
>>>>> as well as Patrick's and have it on good authority they don't
>>>>> represent the best of the RCC.
>>
>> So...what is it that you think they are if not catholic?
>
> Not on a public forum

That can't be good..but you are doing good of one form
by not sharing it with the world and with them.


>
>> Catholic
>> means universal...that is a wide definition covering a very big
>> spectrum of people. Most of south america is catholic..
>
> So that doesn't make them right or wrong. Just popular.

it shows the open arms of God, inviting all to seek him.



>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> We all have our weak moments.
>>>
>>> This is also true.
>>>
>>
>> I need to slow down and type better...
>
> OK can do that. Been a busy week. Had quite a crowd yesterday and
> Sunday.

Wild party? Good thing to avoid. Lots of drunks.


>
> Be Well
>
> Matt
>

Nicholi Trapolsky

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 10:05:07 AM7/6/16
to
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 08:57:02 -0500, Rod vomited forth:
You friends not talk to Nic. What wrong with them, eh?

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 10:12:07 AM7/6/16
to
Rod <nhra...@gmail.com> wrote:


>> Religion without hate, Religion without all the arrogance we see.
>> Basically no fundies in the world :-)). Oh and world peace (Smiling)
>
> You can start here:
>
>James 1:26 If any man among you seemeth to be religious, and bridleth
>not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
>
>James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is
>this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to
>keep himself unspotted from the world.
>
>James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then
>peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good
>fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
>
>James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by them that
>make peace.
>
>
> These verses have always been a big help mastering my worst enemy,
> myself.

Lovely verses.... Thanks for sharing.



> The church members are the followers of God, not the building they
>meet in, not just the priests that serve God. You are right on one
>aspect: there is no prefect church, yet the whole idea is to start
>the people on a journey to perfection before God. It's a long walk for
>us all, Matt. Sometimes people drop out for their own reasons to return
>later in life; others never return but walk alone or with guidance of
>the Holy Spirit, while others just don't seek God at all any longer.
>
> Its a big world with many roads, only one road leads to God. It's a
>small, hard to walk goat path. Lots of objects on the path, lots of
>problems.

More wisdom from Rod.


>Matthew_12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak
>good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
>
>Luke_6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth
>forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of
>his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the
>heart his mouth speaketh.

I think you are one rightous man, Rod, Thanks.

Rod

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 10:35:56 AM7/6/16
to
You remind them of Russians and Putin, and you are new
to them, and you are a smartass. I see that you already
have Mikey upset with you( smiling..).."been here 5 minutes"
warning. He he he he ! That was funny. it could also be that
they saw your facebook page and what you did to that hog. That
was one big, mean hog. I still have your picture from two years
ago. Daniel was impressed last night. he wants a rig like yours
and I do to..but I don't want to be murdered in my sleep over
9K so I'll stick with the 70.

So how is the hog problem in sofia these days? It isn't good here in
the 3 state area, and they are spreading from Louisiana up into Arkansas
and a part of Missouri. Mary is coming with me in september, but you
will have to convince her that her 243 isn't going to stop a hog. She
is proud of her daddy's gun, but that hog is not an elk. I'm looking
forward to it. I hope you have a good guide this time. I'll try to talk
her into buying a rifle over there and leaving "daddy" here in the states.



Rod

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 10:40:20 AM7/6/16
to
Very unworthy of that..but thank you.

MattB

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 3:13:16 PM7/6/16
to
Good choices. James 1:27 the first is easy and good the second part
is hard in this world.
>
>
> These verses have always been a big help mastering my worst enemy,
> myself.

Meditation and long walks in the mountains help me. Listening to the
books on the Ipod while walking.
>
>>
>> Going to make wishes wish then big
>
>
> Large miracles begin in small places.

I will ask for a large miracles a decent person as President and a
congress that cares.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also this was said by Patrick
>>>>>> "Which case is that?
>>>>>> Are you trying to post in a Presbyterian website?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What was the point Patrick is not a moderator.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick is in a catholic group. You were speaking of Presbyterian..
>>> (smiling...)politics..
>>
>> Not going anywhere. Patrick is free to form a moderated group and
>> build a commune like Jim Jones had.
>
> I can see Patrick waging war on a jim jones type
> but not being one. Religion gets out of hand because
> people get out of hand. Jim Jones took a nether route
> to God...a man made view of what they believe God see's
> and values, twisting truth without altering it's basic
> form..a true evil.

He was a true fanatic to me or he just used religion to serve his ego.
>
> It starts when a religious man recognizes that God does not value
> flesh. From this point on things get twisted and demented by men,
> distorted by them.

I think God cares less about some things than we know. I've always
wondered why God was so worried about sex?

>
>
>
> Religion and Politics or the
>> politics within religion are difficult. There is no perfect Church
>> and no one church is needed for salvation according to the Bible. Even
>> if Patrick is trying to say so.
>>>
>>>
> The church members are the followers of God, not the building they
>meet in, not just the priests that serve God. You are right on one
>aspect: there is no prefect church, yet the whole idea is to start
>the people on a journey to perfection before God. It's a long walk for
>us all, Matt. Sometimes people drop out for their own reasons to return
>later in life; others never return but walk alone or with guidance of
>the Holy Spirit, while others just don't seek God at all any longer.

What you say here is true. Though I have seen some Churches I don't
think follow God.
>
> Its a big world with many roads, only one road leads to God. It's a
>small, hard to walk goat path. Lots of objects on the path, lots of
>problems.

I don't see it being that hard a path. Jesus gave us the design and
man has added obstacles that aren't needed.

duke

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 4:11:43 PM7/6/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 23:18:08 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 07:16:58 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:32:27 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 15:28:25 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 12:18:55 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually this was a message and a test. I wanted to see if Patrick
>>>>>>>Barker and Duke AKA Earl Weber would find a way to bring negativity
>>>>>>>into this thread. Sadly you did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Being truthful does not bring negativity. If you understood, you wouldn't be a
>>>>>>fundie.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again my point is made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name
>>>>>>>and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name
>>>>>>>can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not
>>>>>>>against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yep, Jesus and the new covenant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes isn't that what the RCC teaches?
>>>>
>>>>Just as Jesus teaches.
>>>
>>>So RCCers are fundies?
>>
>>They can be, if they act like protest_ants.
>
>Fundies are those who follow God's word to the letter, right?

Basically. It's more a matter of thinking that everything in scripture is
literally true. Although I'm not sure is that's an accurate depiction.

For instance, we know that Gen 1-11 is not a scientific accounting of the
beginning of the universe or of life. They are Israel's faith statement of
God's activity in the origin of the universe and of mankind.

fundamentalism

1. a conservative movement in 20th-century American Protestantism in reaction to
modernism, asserting especially the inerrancy of the Scriptures as a historical
record and as a guide to faith and morals, and emphasizing, as matters of true
faith, belief in the virgin birth, the sacrifice and death of Christ upon the
cross, physical resurrection, and the Second Coming.
2. an adherence to the doctrines and practices of this movement. —
fundamentalist, n., adj.
See also: Protestantism

the rationale of conservative American Protestants who regard the Bible as free
of errors or contradictions and emphasize its literal interpretation, usually
without reference to modern scholarship. Also called literalism. —
fundamentalist, n., adj.

duke

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 4:12:36 PM7/6/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 23:19:11 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 07:17:58 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:43:45 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 17:32:50 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>>>matty thinks so.
>>>>Ask him.
>>>
>>>Not all of them. Duke and Patrick very much so.
>>
>>Sound confirmation that you are clueless as to what a fundie is. Also that you
>>yourself are one and not Patrick nor I.
>
>Fundies are those that follow God's word to the letter, right?

duke

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 4:13:22 PM7/6/16
to
On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:08:43 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:56:47 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>Nope.
>>Not even close.
>>Fundies are those who INTERPRET scripture in a false way and demand or
>>force others to accept their interpretation of this scripture.
>
>
>There you go. Fits you completely as well as Duke. Patrick Barker
>that fits you completely. Going to use that.

Haahaahaa. What an idiot.

duke

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 4:15:06 PM7/6/16
to
>You are RCC Fundie hate filled lying assholes both of you.

Nope, Sbaptists are a prime example of fundamentalism. That's why the Pope
accused some Catholics of fundamentalism, ie, acting like or thinking like you.

Lucifer Morningstar

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 5:38:30 PM7/6/16
to
You are jealous because only fundies will go to heaven.

>the dukester, American-American

Rod

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 6:34:23 PM7/6/16
to
Many times the first part is very hard. Kids without a fathers
guidance, widows in mourning for years and years, destitute with
no shoulder to lean on..when you serve God many times God makes
you become that rock that they need. That is when you come to
understand a fraction of the difficulties that God is faced with
when helping people. Ministry is no place for those who do not rely
on God or that fear solving problems. Some men feel called to the
ministry just for a paycheck, and many of them end up leaving.

If you choose a closer relationship with God; this is where it will
lead; ministry of some form.





>>
>>
>> These verses have always been a big help mastering my worst enemy,
>> myself.
>
> Meditation and long walks in the mountains help me.

I meditate a lot. Many people do. Not all of them reach a state of
perfect self mastery. Some people have said that they have heard
voices while meditating; if that ever happens to you shut it down.
God speaks to your spirit; not your ears or your mind. What He wants
you to know manifests itself inside of you.



> Listening to the
> books on the Ipod while walking.

Before you sleep..if you seek knowledge and understanding,
make it known to God. It is always easier to come before Him
with requests if you know you have things to repent of ahead
of time.

If God grants your request..you will find your head filled with
with wonderful things that you have never heard of or seen.




>>
>>>
>>> Going to make wishes wish then big
>>
>>
>> Large miracles begin in small places.
>
> I will ask for a large miracles a decent person as President and a
> congress that cares.


You ask a lot. I would not ask God to put a man led by
Him into a pit of snakes. It might be better to let the
corruption that is tumble into the dirt..that God can
raise up a nation free of what plagues us now.

MattB

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 7:29:15 PM7/6/16
to
It is good for you.
>
>
>
>> Listening to the
>> books on the Ipod while walking.
>
> Before you sleep..if you seek knowledge and understanding,
> make it known to God. It is always easier to come before Him
> with requests if you know you have things to repent of ahead
> of time.
>
> If God grants your request..you will find your head filled with
> with wonderful things that you have never heard of or seen.
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Going to make wishes wish then big
>>>
>>>
>>> Large miracles begin in small places.
>>
>> I will ask for a large miracles a decent person as President and a
>> congress that cares.
>
>
> You ask a lot. I would not ask God to put a man led by
> Him into a pit of snakes. It might be better to let the
> corruption that is tumble into the dirt..that God can
> raise up a nation free of what plagues us now.

I don't think anyone good and qualified would want the job.

MattB

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 10:43:41 PM7/6/16
to
While looking found this

"Smile at each other,
smile at your wife, smile at your husband, smile at your children,
smile at each other -- it doesn't matter who it is -- and that will
help you to grow up in greater love for each other."

Mother Teresa

This might fit for my walks here.

The beauty of the trees,
the softness of the air,
the fragrance of the grass,
speaks to me.

The summit of the mountain,
the thunder of the sky,
the rhythm of the sea,
speaks to me.

The strength of the fire,
the taste of salmon,
the trail of the sun,
and the life that never goes away,
they speak to me.
And my heart soars."

Chief Dan George
Snipped for space

This is off topic but found it a good story

A wise woman who was traveling in the mountains found a precious stone
in a stream. The next day she met another traveler who was hungry, and
the wise woman opened her bag to share her food. The hungry traveler
saw the precious stone and asked the woman to give it to him. She did
so without hesitation. The traveler left, rejoicing in his good
fortune. He knew the stone was worth enough to give him security for a
lifetime. But a few days later he came back to return the stone to the
wise woman.

"I've been thinking," he said, "I know how valuable the stone is, but
I give it back in the hope that you can give me something even more
precious. Give me what you have within you that enabled you to give me
the stone."

"The Wise Woman's Stone"
Author Unknown


Be Well

Matt

Rod

unread,
Jul 6, 2016, 11:02:23 PM7/6/16
to
Wise choice Matt..a very good story.

Rod

unread,
Jul 7, 2016, 7:38:48 PM7/7/16
to
On 7/5/2016 5:14 PM, MattB wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:18:40 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.
>>> You will come visit me and are an expert with guns (turns out you
>>> passed basic in the AF LOL). You will have a throw down weapon.
>>> Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
>>> expert ROFL
>>> Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
>>> to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?
>>
>> I know you are trying to provoke me.
>> I forgive you for your loss of self-control.
>
> Haven't lost control.

Are you trying to wrangle an apology or are you
holding a grudge, matt ?


> That would take more than you have the ability
> to do.
>

But not you. He forgave you...where is your forgiveness ?

MattB

unread,
Jul 7, 2016, 7:57:22 PM7/7/16
to
On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 18:38:44 -0500, Rod <nhra...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/5/2016 5:14 PM, MattB wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:18:40 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.
>>>> You will come visit me and are an expert with guns (turns out you
>>>> passed basic in the AF LOL). You will have a throw down weapon.
>>>> Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
>>>> expert ROFL
>>>> Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
>>>> to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?
>>>
>>> I know you are trying to provoke me.
>>> I forgive you for your loss of self-control.
>>
>> Haven't lost control.
>
> Are you trying to wrangle an apology or are you
> holding a grudge, matt ?

Well what I see is you don't hold the same standards to both. That
also says much about the RCC teachings.

>
>
>> That would take more than you have the ability
>> to do.
>>
>
> But not you. He forgave you...where is your forgiveness ?

He hasn't apologized and admitted those lies. He doesn't repent them.
In fact he repeated some just today. Yet you ignore his lies.

Forgiving does not mean forgetting. You are required to forgive
Hillary are you going to forget she is corrupt? Apply your standards
to Dolf?

My personal feeling toward Patrick are much like I believe yours are
toward Dolf.

He isn't worth my time for now. He is a Blank Page.


Rod

unread,
Jul 7, 2016, 11:32:31 PM7/7/16
to
I can't argue with that...

Rod

unread,
Jul 7, 2016, 11:51:19 PM7/7/16
to
I haven't ignored Patrick. He KNOWS what he has to do,
and it may take him some time to do it. Give him that time,
don't make things worse than they are.

I am just trying to help YOU because you may not have the knowledge
or training of what to do. I am passing onto you something that was
given me because someone cared about me as I care about you.

If you feel you need time then take it, but please don't make things
harder...it just doesn't help.



>
> Forgiving does not mean forgetting. You are required to forgive
> Hillary are you going to forget she is corrupt?

Hillary has not wronged me, but she HAS wronged others
and I am using that to avoid being a victim as well. I cannot
have something against someone that has done me no wrong,
so how do I forgive someone for something they have not done ??




> Apply your standards
> to Dolf?

I want to help Dolf, but he keeps biting my hand. He is dying
and I'm not sure his mind is sound from what I can understand
his emails.




>
> My personal feeling toward Patrick are much like I believe yours are
> toward Dolf.

I hold no hatred for Dolf. I cannot understand Dolf. He talks straight
to others like Colonel Burke but he is unable to do so with me. The
cause is not natural...I know what to do, I just don't know if there
is time to do it.




>
> He isn't worth my time for now. He is a Blank Page.


This is where you are wrong Matt. Everyone is deserves
your time, your concern and your help. You can't walk
with God and feel that way..YOU have a lot to offer
us all. While you are thinking it over, remember that.

mino tibek.



>
>

MattB

unread,
Jul 8, 2016, 4:23:41 PM7/8/16
to
I did what I need to do and submitting to the RCC isn't part of it.
Patrick thought he'd act like a ass and I'd be a submissive puppy. I
don't work that way.
>
> I am just trying to help YOU because you may not have the knowledge
> or training of what to do. I am passing onto you something that was
> given me because someone cared about me as I care about you.

I have the knowledge of what Jesus said. No training in that
department.
>
> If you feel you need time then take it, but please don't make things
> harder...it just doesn't help.

I've slowed down responding to Blank Page. Though he and his
supporters were talked about in another forum.
>
>
>
>>
>> Forgiving does not mean forgetting. You are required to forgive
>> Hillary are you going to forget she is corrupt?
>
> Hillary has not wronged me, but she HAS wronged others
> and I am using that to avoid being a victim as well. I cannot
> have something against someone that has done me no wrong,
> so how do I forgive someone for something they have not done ??

Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
him as such.


>
>
>
>
>> Apply your standards
>> to Dolf?
>
> I want to help Dolf, but he keeps biting my hand. He is dying
> and I'm not sure his mind is sound from what I can understand
> his emails.

His E-mail worse that here? I've stayed out of it because it seems
to be about things before I started posting here more that a few times
a month again.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> My personal feeling toward Patrick are much like I believe yours are
>> toward Dolf.
>
> I hold no hatred for Dolf. I cannot understand Dolf. He talks straight
> to others like Colonel Burke but he is unable to do so with me. The
> cause is not natural...I know what to do, I just don't know if there
> is time to do it.

I don't hate Patrick any more than I hate a pile of dog shit I walk
past.


>
>
>
>
>>
>> He isn't worth my time for now. He is a Blank Page.
>
>
> This is where you are wrong Matt. Everyone is deserves
> your time, your concern and your help. You can't walk
> with God and feel that way..YOU have a lot to offer
> us all. While you are thinking it over, remember that.

I could say the sky is blue and Patrick and Duke would find a way to
attack it. Look at this post. Wasn't the words that mattered it was
who wrote them the message has gotten lost and all because they were
not written by the RCC.


>
> mino tibek.

No clue
>
>
>
>>
>>

duke

unread,
Jul 8, 2016, 5:44:36 PM7/8/16
to
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 07:38:26 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
I have confidence in God's decisions. If you want to go yourself, you need to
elevate your game to fundie level for starters..

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 8, 2016, 6:21:05 PM7/8/16
to
MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>him as such.

Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
Did Patrick announce your address and social security account number?
Did Patrick berate your daughter and call her a whore?
Did Patrick announce where your children reside?
Did Patrick try to hide his career, his life, his religion?

No, that would be you.

Mattb.

unread,
Jul 8, 2016, 6:49:01 PM7/8/16
to
On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:

> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>him as such.
>
>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?

Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.

>Did Patrick announce your address and social security account number?

You tried but got it wrong.

>Did Patrick berate your daughter and call her a whore?

You said you were going to bring a son in law to kill "injuns" since
he is from Turkey. You said you know where my kids were so I did some
checking and your daughter was in the area and worked at a nearby
college. No lies.


>Did Patrick announce where your children reside?

Said you knew. Fact is you don't.


>Did Patrick try to hide his career, his life, his religion?

Nope.
>
>No, that would be you.

Yep and have you wondered how?

You are a Blank Page.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 8:45:45 AM7/9/16
to
On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:50:14 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>>him as such.
>>
>>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
>
>Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.

(yawn)
<snip>

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:21:46 PM7/9/16
to
+ I knew this would eventually affect Catholics.


By Kevin Jones
Des Moines, Iowa, Jul 9, 2016 / 06:44 am (CNA/EWTN News).- An Iowa
church fears the state civil rights commission could penalize it for
preaching and following its views on homosexuality and transgender
issues – including penalties for single-sex bathrooms.

The Iowa Civil Rights Commission has produced a self-described guide
to Iowa law for public accommodations providers concerning sexual
orientation and gender identity.

The brochure-sized guide says the 2007 Iowa Civil Rights Act applies
to churches “sometimes.” It acknowledged that the law does not apply
to religious institutions in the matter of a “bona fide religious
purpose.”

“Where qualifications are not related to a bona fide religious
purpose, churches are still subject to the law’s provisions. (e.g. a
child care facility operated at a church or a church service open to
the public),” the pamphlet says.

The pamphlet says the law bars discrimination on the basis of sexual
orientation or gender identity in services, facilities or goods for
any place of public accommodation. It bars harassment including
“intentional use of names and pronouns inconsistent with a person’s
presented gender.”

According to the commission, the law requires locker rooms, restrooms
and living facilities in places of public accommodation to be open to
persons based on their self-identified “gender identity.”


Those who believe they have suffered discrimination may file a
complaint with the civil rights commission, the pamphlet says, adding
that it is designed for educational purposes only and is not intended
to be legal advice.

The Fort Des Moines Church of Christ “fears that speaking publicly
about the church’s beliefs on human sexuality or making known its
facility use policy could trigger enforcement action by the commission
and substantial penalties,” said Alliance Defending Freedom legal
counsel Christina Holcomb.

“If this law is not challenged, then the commission retains unchecked
power to violate basic constitutional rights,” Holcomb told CNA July
6.

The Alliance Defending Freedom legal group said the commission’s
interpretation could ban churches from voicing their views if doing so
would “directly or indirectly” make persons of any gender identity
feel “unwelcome” in church services, events and other religious
activities.

“Regardless of our personal views on human sexuality, we should all be
able to agree that the state has overstepped its bounds when it tries
to control the internal communications and operations of a church,”
Holcomb said. “These are the very types of intrusions that Jefferson’s
‘wall of separation between church and state’ was designed to
prevent.”

The legal group filed a lawsuit on behalf of the Des Moines church
against members of the Iowa Civil Rights Commission, the Iowa attorney
general, and the city of Des Moines, which has a law similar to the
State of Iowa’s. The lawsuit is a “pre-enforcement challenge” intended
to challenge a law before it is potentially used against the church.

“No church should have to live in fear that, at any time, the
commission could declare that something the church said or did
violated state law,” Holcomb said. “No one, including church leaders,
must wait for fines or punishment before challenging an
unconstitutional law.”

The lawsuit charged that the anti-discrimination law as interpreted by
the civil rights commission would compel the church to “communicate
government messages to which it objects” and force the church to “use
its building in violation of its religious beliefs.”

Some experts criticized the church’s legal action, but acknowledged
there was ground to believe the law could affect church operations.

Prof. Paul Gowder, a constitutional expert at the University of Iowa
Law School, said it would be “blatantly unconstitutional” for state
officials to try to regulate church sermons. He told the Des Moines
Register it is “absurd on its face” to think the commission would
prohibit a church from sermonizing.


However, he said access to church bathrooms by those who identify as
transgender is more complicated, given jurisprudence that sees
churches as non-exempt from general laws that apply to everyone under
the U.S. Constitution.

“So I guess the honest answer to the bathroom question would be I am
not sure,” Gowder said.

Law professor Maura Strassberg of Drake University said the U.S.
Supreme Court has ruled that public facilities’ decisions on allowing
someone to use a restroom are not considered free speech and would not
be protected by the First Amendment.

She argued that there are situations where a preacher’s remarks could
become harassment.

“There is a line: You can go from, ‘This is what God believes’ … to
‘You are bad, so we don’t want you here’,” she said.

However, Holcomb said these professors overlooked the “critical”
constitutional principle of church autonomy.

“The Supreme Court has recognized again and again that the state has
no jurisdiction to intrude into internal church matters, which include
not only teaching its religious beliefs, but also operating its house
of worship consistently with those beliefs,” she said.

“Churches order their houses of worship to reflect and reinforce their
religious teaching. They are not businesses, they are not public
accommodations: they are inherently sacred spaces, and enjoy special
protections under the religion clauses.”

Ben Hammes, a spokesman for Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad responded to the
legal challenge. He said that Governor Branstad “has confidence in the
commission to enforce the laws we currently have that protect
religious institutions' right to exercise a religious exemption while
protecting personal rights.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/will-new-civil-rights-silence-churches-in-iowa-the-fear-is-real-64813/

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:23:55 PM7/9/16
to
+ Something to think about....

Washington D.C., Jul 8, 2016 / 04:16 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Ten states
have announced that they are suing the federal government over a rule
that would allow students to use the restrooms and locker rooms of
their choice, rather than those that match their biological sex.

The July 8 lawsuit was filed in Nebraska federal court. In addition to
the state of Nebraska, Arkansas, Kansas, Michigan, Montana, North
Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Wyoming joined in the
legal challenge.

Friday’s lawsuit follows an earlier lawsuit by 11 states challenging
the same federal directive.

“When a federal agency takes such unilateral action in an attempt to
change the meaning of established law, it leaves state and local
authorities with no other option than to pursue legal clarity in
federal court in order to enforce the rule of law,” said a statement
by Nebraska’s attorney general, announcing the new lawsuit.

“Current state law and federal regulations allow schools to maintain
separate facilities based upon sex,” the announcement said.

“The recent action by these two federal agencies to require showers,
locker rooms, and bathrooms be open to both sexes based solely on the
student’s choice, circumvents this established law by ignoring the
appropriate legislative process necessary to change such a law. It
also supersedes local school districts’ authority to address student
issues on an individualized, professional and private basis.”

In May, the Department of Justice and Department of Education sent a
letter to all U.S. school districts announcing a new federal guidance,
which instructed every public school in the country to allow students
who identify as transgender to use the facilities – including
restrooms and locker rooms – that match their self-determined “gender
identity.”

“A school may not require transgender students to use facilities
inconsistent with their gender identity or to use individual-user
facilities when other students are not required to do so,” the
directive said. It added “a school must not treat a transgender
student differently from the way it treats other students of the same
gender identity.”

The federal guidance may also affect sex-segregated athletics and
roommate assignments on trips.

Although the directive does not have the force of law, it implicitly
threatens schools that do not comply with lawsuits or a loss of
federal aid, according to the New York Times.

For the purpose of Title IX compliance, the federal departments said
they “treat a student’s gender identity as the student’s sex.” The
guidance said gender identity is “an individual’s internal sense of
gender” that may differ from “the person’s sex assigned at birth.”

In the last two months, the federal guidance has sparked controversy,
with critics warning that it has a wide potential for abuse and
endangers the safety and privacy of students.


The U.S. bishops responded to the “deeply disturbing” federal guidance
by warning that it “contradicts a basic understanding of human
formation so well expressed by Pope Francis: that ‘the young need to
be helped to accept their own body as it was created’.”

The bishops’ May 16 statement was authored by Bishop Richard Malone of
Buffalo, chairman of the bishops’ Committee on Laity, Marriage, Family
Life and Youth, and by Archbishop George Lucas, who chairs the
bishops’ Committee on Catholic Education.

“Children, youth, and parents in these difficult situations deserve
compassion, sensitivity, and respect,” they said. “All of these can be
expressed without infringing on legitimate concerns about privacy and
security on the part of the other young students and parents.”

However, the federal guidance fails to achieve this balance, the
bishops said, citing Pope Francis’ caution that “biological sex and
the socio-cultural role of sex (gender) can be distinguished but not
separated.”

They stressed that the Catholic Church “consistently affirms the
inherent dignity of each and every human person and advocates for the
wellbeing of all people, particularly the most vulnerable.”

“Especially at a young age and in schools, it is important that our
children understand the depth of God's love for them and their
intrinsic worth and beauty. Children should always be and feel safe
and secure and know they are loved,” they added.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/nearly-half-of-us-states-have-sued-over-transgender-bathroom-rule-in-schools-34681/

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:26:34 PM7/9/16
to
Chaput explains divorce:

Philadelphia, Pa., Jul 7, 2016 / 03:25 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope
Francis’ teaching on divorce-and-remarriage and the sacraments
represents Catholic tradition and shows the way forward for engaging
those who are estranged and hurting, Archbishop Charles Chaput of
Philadelphia has said.

“As with all magisterial documents, Amoris Laetitia is best understood
when read within the tradition of the Church’s teaching and life,”
Archbishop Chaput said in July 1 pastoral guidelines for the
Archdiocese of Philadelphia.

Amoris Laetitia is Pope Francis’ apostolic exhortation written as a
culmination of the 2015 Synod on the Family. Some vague language in
the exhortation had allowed a variety of interpretations, and
Archbishop Chaput's guidelines were meant to help in the
implementation of the document in the Philadelphia archdiocese.

“The Holy Father himself states clearly that neither Church teaching
nor the canonical discipline concerning marriage has changed,” the
archbishop said. “The Holy Father’s exhortation should therefore be
read in continuity with the great treasury of wisdom handed on by the
Fathers and Doctors of the Church, the witness of the lives of the
saints, the teachings of Church councils, and previous magisterial
documents.”

The archbishop said the exhortation, which includes “sections of
exceptional beauty and usefulness”, calls for “a sensitive
accompaniment” for those whose grasp of Christian teaching on marriage
and family life is imperfect and for those who may not live according
to Church teaching but desire to take part in Church life, including
the Sacraments.

“In all of this the Holy Father, in union with the whole Church, hopes
to strengthen existing families, and to reach out to those whose
marriages have failed, including those alienated from the life of the
Church,” he added.

Pope Francis' statements, he said, “build on the classic Catholic
understanding, key to moral theology, of the relationship between
objective truth about right and wrong … and how the individual person
grasps and applies that truth to particular situations in his or her
judgment of conscience.”


He recalled that “the subjective conscience of the individual can
never be set against objective moral truth,” and quoted several times
from Veritatis splendor, St. John Paul II's 1993 encyclical on
fundamental questions regarding the Church's moral teaching.

Archbishop Chaput considered how this applies in cases of
divorced-and-remarried persons, cohabiting couples, and persons with
same-sex attractions or relationships.

“With divorced and civilly-remarried persons, Church teaching requires
them to refrain from sexual intimacy,” he explained. “This applies
even if they must (for the care of their children) continue to live
under one roof. Undertaking to live as brother and sister is necessary
for the divorced and civilly-remarried to receive reconciliation in
the Sacrament of Penance, which could then open the way to the
Eucharist.”

Pastors should avoid “both a subjectivism that ignores the truth or a
rigorism that lacks mercy,” he said. They must always convey Catholic
teaching “faithfully to all persons – including the divorced and
remarried – both in the confessional as well as publicly.”

“They should do this with great confidence in the power of God’s
grace, knowing that, when spoken with love, the truth heals, builds
up, and sets free,” he added.

Archbishop Chaput said pastors who give Communion to
divorced-and-remarried persons who try to live chastely must take care
to avoid the appearance of endorsement of divorce-and-remarriage.

“As Amoris Laetitia notes, bishops must arrange for the accompaniment
of estranged and hurting persons with guidelines that faithfully
reflect Catholic belief,” he said, citing paragraph 300 of the Pope’s
document.

That passage stressed careful discernment that does not avoid “the
gospel demands of truth and charity, as proposed by the Church.” It
stressed the need for “humility, discretion, and love for the Church
and her teaching” for discernment for those in irregular marital
situations.

The divorced-and-remarried are invited to attend Mass, pray, and take
part in parish activities. Their children should be brought up in the
faith and are “integral to the life of the Catholic community.”

Cohabiting couples without children should domestically separate to
prepare themselves for marriage. Those with children may have to live
together, for the children’s sake, “but in chastity.”

For those with same-sex attractions, Church ministers should emphasize
“that they are loved by God, that Jesus desires them to receive an
inheritance as adopted sons and daughters of the Father, and that, as
with every Christian, this is made possible through the gift of
grace,” Archbishop Chaput said.


Given Christian teaching on marriage and sexual intimacy, those with
same-sex attractions are “called to struggle to live chastely for the
kingdom of God.”

For same-sex couples, the archbishop noted the importance of
remembering that some couples “live together in chaste friendship.”

“The Church welcomes all men and women who honestly seek to encounter
the Lord, whatever their circumstances,” he said. “But two persons in
an active, public same-sex relationship, no matter how sincere, offer
a serious counter-witness to Catholic belief, which can only produce
moral confusion in the community. Such a relationship cannot be
accepted into the life of the parish without undermining the faith of
the community, most notably the children.”

Archbishop Chaput noted the “great suffering” of those who are
separated or divorced.

There is no obstacle to receiving Holy Communion for those who
recognize that their first marriage is indissoluble and refrain from a
new union. Indeed, they should receive the sacraments regularly, he
noted.

“God is faithful to them even when their spouses are not, a truth that
fellow Catholics should reinforce,” he said.

Archbishop Chaput repeated that marriage is permanent, monogamous, and
open to life.

“Jesus himself raised marriage to new dignity,” he said. “The valid
marriage of two baptized persons is a sacrament that confers grace,
with the potential to deepen the couple’s life in Christ, especially
through the shared privilege of bringing new life into the world and
raising children in the knowledge of God.”

The archbishop stressed the great joy of marriage, acknowledging its
stresses and suffering while also praising the grace of the sacrament,
which can “strengthen [the couple's] relationship, not just as an idea
but as a reality that impacts their daily married life.”

One prominent Catholic objected to the archbishop’s presentation of
Catholic teaching. Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney on Twitter snapped
that Archbishop Chaput’s actions “are not Christian.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-chaput-pope-francis-shows-continuity-on-divorce-remarriage-80478/

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:28:24 PM7/9/16
to
by Elise Harris

Vatican City, Jul 7, 2016 / 12:08 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis
has dedicated the month of July to praying for the world’s indigenous
peoples, asking specifically in his new prayer video that their
identity and cultural traditions be respected.

“I want to be a spokesman for the deepest longings of indigenous
peoples,” the Pope said in the video, released July 6.

Speaking in his native Spanish, Francis said that “I want to add your
voice to mine in a heartfelt prayer that all will respect indigenous
peoples, threatened in their identity and even in their existence.”

The video opens with an Indian woman walking up to a podium, asking
her audience on behalf of all indigenous peoples “that our ways of
life be respected, our rights and our traditions. Will you listen to
me?”

When the video pans out showing that the auditorium is empty, Pope
Francis appears, expressing his desire to be the spokesman for the
rights of indigenous communities throughout the world as one-by-one
members of other indigenous populations join the woman on stage.

Indigenous peoples have been a theme in many of Pope Francis’ speeches
and travels abroad since his election, including his 2015 encyclical
“Laudato Si.”

After speaking out on issues indigenous peoples face in the
environmental document, he advocated on their behalf exactly one year
ago during his July 5-13, 2015, trip to Latin America, which included
stops in Ecuador, Bolivia and Paraguay.

In a lengthy, powerful speech to the World Meeting of Popular
movements in Bolivia, the Argentine Pope echoed his predecessor St.
John Paul II in asking forgiveness for crimes committed against the
native peoples of Latin America during the “so-called conquest of
America.”

“I say this to you with regret: many grave sins were committed against
the native peoples in the name of God,” he said, asking, like St. John
Paul II, that “the Church ‘kneel before God and implore forgiveness
for the past and present sins of her sons and daughters.’”

During his Feb. 12-17 trip to Mexico this year, the Pope made a point
to visit Chiapas, one of the poorest regions of the country which is
also home to the majority of Mexico’s large indigenous populations.

Upon landing he was greeted by a group of indigenous people who
offered him three gifts of great symbolic value: a “staff of office”
with three points representing the Holy Trinity, a crown, and a
necklace of flowers with the Vatican colors of yellow and white.
According to their custom, these gifts are given to very beloved
persons.

While in Chiapas, he also celebrated a special Mass with
representatives of Mexico’s indigenous community.

An initiative of the Jesuit-run global prayer network Apostleship of
Prayer, the Pope’s prayer videos are filmed in collaboration with the
Vatican Television Center and mark the first time the pontiff’s
monthly prayer intentions have been featured on video.

The Apostleship of Prayer, which produces the monthly videos on the
Pope’s intentions, was founded by Jesuit seminarians in France in 1884
to encourage Christians to serve God and others through prayer,
particularly for the needs of the Church.

Since the late 1800s, the organization has received a monthly,
“universal” intention from the Pope. In 1929, an additional missionary
intention was added by the Holy Father, aimed at the faithful in
particular.

While there are two intentions, the prayer videos are centered on the
first, universal intention.

Though Pope Francis’ July video focused on his universal intention to
respect indigenous peoples, his missionary intention is for Latin
America and the Caribbean, specifically that “the Church in Latin
America and the Caribbean, by means of her mission to the continent,
may announce the Gospel with renewed vigor and enthusiasm.”

His intentions this year have so far focused on themes he speaks out
about frequently, such as interreligious dialogue, care for creation,
families in hardship, the elderly and marginalized, and respect for
women.

Francis’ prayer intentions for the rest of the year are listed on the
organization’s website and center on other themes close to Francis’
heart, such as prayers for countries receiving migrants and refugees,
and an end to child-soldiers

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/respect-indigenous-cultures-traditions-pope-asks-in-new-prayer-video-57229/

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:30:52 PM7/9/16
to

++ Only in the courts in Caleefornia....

Sacramento, Calif., Jul 6, 2016 / 03:02 am (CNA/EWTN News).- A
California court ruled last week that ChristianMingle and it’s
affiliate faith-based dating websites must allow LGBT singles to
search and be matched with people of the same gender.

The ruling comes at the end of a 2.5 year legal battle after two gay
men noticed in 2013 that new members to the popular dating site, which
boasts over 15 million users, could only search for dates of the
opposite sex.

The men filed a lawsuit on discrimination charges against Spark
Networks, which owns ChristianMingle and a host of other faith-based
dating websites, including CatholicMingle, JDate (Jewish Date), and
LDSSingles.com, the “largest dating site by Mormons for Mormons.”

“Spark has engaged in a systemic and intentional pattern and practice
of arbitrary discrimination against gays and lesbians throughout
California by denying them full and equal services, accommodations,
advantages and privileges in connection with many of its commercial
dating services,” the lawsuit filed in 2013 said.

Last week, Judge Jane L. Johnson of the Superior Court of California
in Los Angeles County ruled that ChristianMingle’s policy of only
allowing for opposite-sex searches violated a California
anti-discrimination law, the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which states that
“all business establishments of every kind whatsoever” must treat
every person within the jurisdiction as equal regardless of sex, race,
religion, marital status and sexual orientation, among other things.

Judge Johnson approved a settlement of the case, which mandates that
Spark must change its policies and websites to better accommodate LGBT
individuals. The ruling will affect all dating sites owned by Spark,
and changes must be made within the next two years. The JDate site
already featured search options for LGBT individuals to find matches.

Spark will also have to pay $9,000 each to Aaron Werner and Richard
Wright, the two gay men who sued the company, as well as $450,000 in
attorneys' fees, as part of the settlement.

After the settlement, ChristianMingle's homepage now asks users only
for their gender. There are currently no options for selecting the
desired gender of one's matches throughout the sign-up process, in
filling out a profile, or in searching the site for matches once
registered, CBC News reports. Further changes to the site's search
options are expected as part of the settlement.Sacramento, Calif., Jul
6, 2016 / 03:02 am (CNA/EWTN News).- A California court ruled last
week that ChristianMingle and it’s affiliate faith-based dating
websites must allow LGBT singles to search and be matched with people
of the same gender.

The ruling comes at the end of a 2.5 year legal battle after two gay
men noticed in 2013 that new members to the popular dating site, which
boasts over 15 million users, could only search for dates of the
opposite sex.

The men filed a lawsuit on discrimination charges against Spark
Networks, which owns ChristianMingle and a host of other faith-based
dating websites, including CatholicMingle, JDate (Jewish Date), and
LDSSingles.com, the “largest dating site by Mormons for Mormons.”

“Spark has engaged in a systemic and intentional pattern and practice
of arbitrary discrimination against gays and lesbians throughout
California by denying them full and equal services, accommodations,
advantages and privileges in connection with many of its commercial
dating services,” the lawsuit filed in 2013 said.

Last week, Judge Jane L. Johnson of the Superior Court of California
in Los Angeles County ruled that ChristianMingle’s policy of only
allowing for opposite-sex searches violated a California
anti-discrimination law, the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which states that
“all business establishments of every kind whatsoever” must treat
every person within the jurisdiction as equal regardless of sex, race,
religion, marital status and sexual orientation, among other things.

Judge Johnson approved a settlement of the case, which mandates that
Spark must change its policies and websites to better accommodate LGBT
individuals. The ruling will affect all dating sites owned by Spark,
and changes must be made within the next two years. The JDate site
already featured search options for LGBT individuals to find matches.

Spark will also have to pay $9,000 each to Aaron Werner and Richard
Wright, the two gay men who sued the company, as well as $450,000 in
attorneys' fees, as part of the settlement.

After the settlement, ChristianMingle's homepage now asks users only
for their gender. There are currently no options for selecting the
desired gender of one's matches throughout the sign-up process, in
filling out a profile, or in searching the site for matches once
registered, CBC News reports. Further changes to the site's search
options are expected as part of the settlement.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:32:47 PM7/9/16
to
by Elise Harris

Vatican City, Jul 5, 2016 / 04:34 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In his message
for a new campaign promoting peace in Syria, Pope Francis called out
world leaders who speak of ending the conflict, but at the same time
fund the war through the sale of arms.

“While the people suffer, incredible quantities of money are being
spent to supply weapons to fighters,” the Pope said in his video
message, published July 5.

He noted that some of the countries supplying the weapons “are also
among those that talk of peace. How can you believe in someone who
caresses you with the right hand and strikes you with the left hand?”

Francis encouraged people of all ages throughout the world to use the
Holy Year of Mercy as an occasion to “overcome indifference and
proclaim with strength that peace in Syria is possible! Peace in Syria
is possible!”

His message accompanied the launch of a new campaign by Catholic
charity organization Caritas Internationalis titled “Syria: peace is
possible.”

The Syrian civil war, already in its fifth year, is the largest relief
operation undertaken by Caritas. Since the conflict began it has
claimed the lives of more than 270,000 people. There are more than 4.6
million Syrian refugees in nearby countries, and an additional 8
million Syrian people are believed to have been internally displaced
by the war.

Among other things, Caritas provides food, healthcare, essential
necessities, education, housing and psychological care to refugees. In
2015 alone national Caritas branches in the conflict area provided
assistance to 1.3 million people.

In their campaign, promoted on Twitter and other social media sites
with the hashtag: “#peacepossible4syria,” asks that Caritas supporters
throughout the world “put pressure on their governments,” according to
a July 5 press release.

This pressure, the release read, ought to ensure that all parties
involved in the conflict “unite to find a peaceful solution;” that
they support the thousands of people suffering due to the consequences
of war and that they provide Syrians both inside and outside the
country “dignity and hope.”

In his message, Pope Francis said that the Syrian conflict is a
situation of “unspeakable suffering” and “saddens my heart a lot.”

Syrian people, he noted, “are victims” of this suffering and are
“forced to survive under bombs or to find escape routes to other
countries or areas of Syria that are less war-torn: to leave their own
home, everything.”

He also turned his thoughts to the Christian communities and the
“discrimination they have to bear,” giving them his full support.

Francis extended the invitation for people and world leaders
everywhere to pray for peace in Syria and for its citizens at events
such as prayer vigils, awareness-raising initiatives, in parishes and
in communities, so that the message of peace, unity and hope is
spread.

“Works of peace then follow prayer,” he said, and urged those involved
in peace negotiations “to take these agreements seriously and to make
every effort to facilitate access to humanitarian aid.”

Everyone must recognize that “there is no military solution for Syria,
but only a political solution,” he continued, stressing that the
international community “must therefore support the peace talks
heading towards the construction of a government of national unity.”

Pope Francis encouraged people at all levels of society to “join
forces” in ensuring that “peace in Syria is possible.” That, he said,
“will be a great example of mercy and love lived for the good of all
the international community!”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-to-world-leaders-if-you-want-to-help-syrians-stop-paying-for-the-war-71325/

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 12:38:22 PM7/9/16
to

Mexico City, Mexico, Jul 8, 2016 / 03:33 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Sister
Lucia dos Santos, one of the three children who witnessed the Marian
apparitions at Fatima, died in 2005. But before her death, she
predicted that the final battle between Christ and Satan would be over
marriage and the family.

So says Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, who reports that the visionary sent
him a letter with this prediction when he was Archbishop of Bologna,
Italy.

This reported statement by Sister Lucia, expressed during the
pontificate of Saint John Paul II, was recently revisited by the Desde
la Fe (From the Faith) weekly of the Archdiocese of Mexico, in the
midst of the debate generated by President Enrqiue Pena Nieto, who
announced his intention to promote gay marriage in this country.

The Mexican weekly recalled the statements that Cardinal Caffarra made
to the Italian press in 2008, three years after the death of Sister
Lucia.

On February 16, 2008, the Italian cardinal had celebrated a Mass at
the tomb of Padre Pio, after which he gave an interview with Tele
Radio Padre Pio. He was asked about the prophecy of Sister Lucia dos
Santos that speaks about “the final battle between the Lord and the
kingdom of Satan.”

Cardinal Caffarra explained that Saint John Paul II had commissioned
him to plan and establish the Pontifical Institute for Studies on
Marriage and Family. At the beginning of this work, the cardinal wrote
a letter to Sister Lucia of Fatima through her bishop, since he could
not do it directly.

“Inexplicably, since I did not expect a reply, seeing as I had only
asked for her prayers, I received a long letter with her signature,
which is now in the archives of the Institute,” the Italian cardinal
said.

“In that letter we find written: ‘The final battle between the Lord
and the kingdom of Satan will be about Marriage and the Family.’ Don't
be afraid, she added, because whoever works for the sanctity of
Marriage and the Family will always be fought against and opposed in
every way, because this is the decisive issue. Then she concluded:
‘nevertheless, Our Lady has already crushed his head’.”

Cardinal Caffarra added that “speaking again with John Paul II, you
could feel that the family was the core, since it has to do with the
supporting pillar of creation, the truth of the relationship between
man and woman, between the generations. If the foundational pillar is
damaged, the entire building collapses and we're seeing this now,
because we are right at this point and we know it.”

“And I am moved when I read the best biographies of Padre Pio,” the
cardinal concluded, “about how this man was so attentive to the
sanctity of marriage and the holiness of the spouses, even with
justifiable rigor at times.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/fatima-visionary-predicted-final-battle-would-be-over-marriage-family-17760/

MattB

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 2:32:30 PM7/9/16
to
On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:45:46 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:50:14 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>>>him as such.
>>>
>>>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
>>
>>Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.
>
>(yawn)
><snip>


Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.

You will come visit me and are an expert with guns (turns out you
passed basic in the AF LOL). You will have a throw down weapon.
Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
expert ROFL

Then you are going to Montana and will bring your son-in-law either
Christopher or Mehmet who will all stay on Malmstrom Air Force Base
so he can shoot "injuns" up near Great Falls.

You claim to be Rich a lie. You also claim to have a copy of my birth
certificate yet don't know my middle name or my parents real names.
Don't even know where I was apparently born.

•RLMeasures

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 2:44:17 PM7/9/16
to
In article <5092ob9qsnnmu34ee...@4ax.com>, PATRICK
€€ PB: The trouble with allowing people to choose their sexual identity
potty room is there will be hetero guys in dresses, skirts, and kulats
entering the girls' potty. Another problem would be with Lolitas in need
of "dick".

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 3:32:34 PM7/9/16
to
On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:32:30 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:45:46 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:50:14 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>>>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>>>>him as such.
>>>>
>>>>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
>>>
>>>Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.

You don't recall.
How convenient.
And you wonder why I laugh so hard AT you.

>>
>>(yawn)
>><snip>
>
>
>Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.
>
>You will come visit me

No, I will not.
I have already told you that you are not worth my time.


> and are an expert with guns

Yes, I received an "expert" rating each time I shot a weapon at a
military firing range. This does not mean I am an expert on all guns.

> (turns out you>passed basic in the AF LOL).

And received an "expert" rating on the firing range.
And also did the same prior to my deployment to Viet Nam.
And also received an "expert" rating when I attended Officer Training
School.


>You will have a throw down weapon.

I have claimed that I have one.
I do not carry it with me.
I do not take it on vacations.


>Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
>expert ROFL

I still don't know what you are talking about.
That is like claiming you have a Ruger. Or Smith & Wesson.
Or a Colt. That doesn't really mean much unless you explain more in
detail.


>Then you are going to Montana and will bring your son-in-law either

I will be going to Montana with my wife.
The rest of the family will be busy.
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you were not invited to the reunion
anyway.



>Christopher or Mehmet who will all stay on Malmstrom Air Force Base
>so he can shoot "injuns" up near Great Falls.

I will be on Malmstrom for 5 nights. Glacier Natl Park for 2 nights.
And the Hampton in for one night. I'll be driving a mini SUV from
Hertz I think.


>You claim to be Rich a lie.

I am rich with priceless grandchildren.
I will be assisting my oldest grand-daughter for her tuition starting
in the Fall.



> You also claim to have a copy of my birth certificate

No, I said I could get it in a heartbeat.
It just isn't worth the $ 29.00 to pay for it.


> yet don't know my middle name or my parents real names.

I know.
But you are ashamed of them.
And Rod said I shouldn't disclose this info here.


>Don't even know where I was apparently born.

Do you know?
I know where I was born. Great Falls MT, 11 Sep 1948.
I am not ashamed of where I was born.
I am not ashamed of my parents or where they are from.
That would be .... YOU.



>Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
>to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?

Only those I know to be trolls, pretending to be honest.
That would be you.

And I was right. You are a troll. You are not honest. You are just
a bully, looking to insult and degrade other people. It must be some
sort of turn on for you. And I find people like you to be fascinating
because I could never have dreamed up such a jerk.

MattB

unread,
Jul 9, 2016, 4:04:01 PM7/9/16
to
On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 15:32:35 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:32:30 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:45:46 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:50:14 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>>>>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>>>>>him as such.
>>>>>
>>>>>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
>>>>
>>>>Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.
>
>You don't recall.
>How convenient.
>And you wonder why I laugh so hard AT you.

Do you really think I care? Your are nothing just a Blank Page to me.
>
>>>
>>>(yawn)
>>><snip>
>>
>>
>>Lets see Patrick Barker of Dayton.
>>
>>You will come visit me
>
>No, I will not.
>I have already told you that you are not worth my time.

Good. Would be interesting watching you get your fat ass over the
gate. That would be a youtube moment.
>
>
>> and are an expert with guns
>
>Yes, I received an "expert" rating each time I shot a weapon at a
>military firing range. This does not mean I am an expert on all guns.

Right you shot at a range of 1000 Yards at Lackland Airforce base?
They don't have a range that long. Been there.

>
>> (turns out you>passed basic in the AF LOL).
>
>And received an "expert" rating on the firing range.
>And also did the same prior to my deployment to Viet Nam.
>And also received an "expert" rating when I attended Officer Training
>School.

LOL AF OTS LOL Sorry that rating is a joke. Now if you had
attended sniper school might be impressed a little. OTS ROFL
>
>
>>You will have a throw down weapon.
>
>I have claimed that I have one.

Why would you say that on a public forum. Even if you did.

>I do not carry it with me.
>I do not take it on vacations.

Good.
>
>
>>Didn't even know what an Eagle was ROFL. So much for you being an
>>expert ROFL
>
>I still don't know what you are talking about.
>That is like claiming you have a Ruger. Or Smith & Wesson.
>Or a Colt. That doesn't really mean much unless you explain more in
>detail.

No just shows how much of a expert you are not.

>
>
>>Then you are going to Montana and will bring your son-in-law either
>
>I will be going to Montana with my wife.
>The rest of the family will be busy.
>I am sorry to disappoint you, but you were not invited to the reunion
>anyway.

No don't want to go. Like that area. The shooting complex is nice
although basic.
>
>
>
>>Christopher or Mehmet who will all stay on Malmstrom Air Force Base
>>so he can shoot "injuns" up near Great Falls.
>
>I will be on Malmstrom for 5 nights. Glacier Natl Park for 2 nights.
>And the Hampton in for one night. I'll be driving a mini SUV from
>Hertz I think.

Hope Malmstrom checks you for weapons violations. Wouldn't want any
dead injuns while you are there. That would be very bad for the base
commander.
>
>
>>You claim to be Rich a lie.
>
>I am rich with priceless grandchildren.
>I will be assisting my oldest grand-daughter for her tuition starting
>in the Fall.

So you feel the need to brag you are helping your family. What does
the Bible say about that?

>
>
>
>> You also claim to have a copy of my birth certificate
>
>No, I said I could get it in a heartbeat.
>It just isn't worth the $ 29.00 to pay for it.

Wouldn't you need my place of birth and full name?

You don't have those it seems. So you lied AGAIN
>
>
>> yet don't know my middle name or my parents real names.
>
>I know.
>But you are ashamed of them.
>And Rod said I shouldn't disclose this info here.

Rod also knows what you have is incorrect. Pretty much been scrubbed
or you lack the skills.

>
>
>>Don't even know where I was apparently born.
>
>Do you know?
>I know where I was born. Great Falls MT, 11 Sep 1948.
>I am not ashamed of where I was born.
>I am not ashamed of my parents or where they are from.
>That would be .... YOU.

Not ashamed you just want it. They have both passed so what is the
point.

You ask many people for their personal info. Robert was ashamed of
you.

>
>
>
>>Face it Patrick like the RCC you will lie to defend and use deflection
>>to defend the pedos. How many people do you ask for personal info?
>
>Only those I know to be trolls, pretending to be honest.
>That would be you.

Yes I remember I asked this "How much of the Old Testament are we
required to live by and how do we know?" and you claimed that to be a
direct attack on the Roman Catholic Church and ordered me to leave.
Still don't understand how that was a attack on the RCC.

>
>And I was right. You are a troll. You are not honest. You are just
>a bully, looking to insult and degrade other people. It must be some
>sort of turn on for you. And I find people like you to be fascinating
>because I could never have dreamed up such a jerk.

Do you read your gangs own post? You follow people from thread to
thread posting snide little remarks you and your gang respond to these
snide remarks with things like "hehe" and such.

You'd like to be a bully with your threats and such. Yes after you
said you knew where my kids were made a phone call. Turns out you are
and were a failure most your life and not a credible threat. Mediocre
reviews and a few complains even. Patrick Barker go try to bully
somewhere else your days here are limited to me you are a blank page.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 10, 2016, 8:33:52 AM7/10/16
to
On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 13:04:01 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 15:32:35 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:32:30 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:45:46 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:50:14 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:21:05 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Patrick has wronged me and being RCC doesn't excuse that. If he
>>>>>>>follows me from thread to thread acting like a mad dog,I will treat
>>>>>>>him as such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did Patrick call your wife a whore?
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't recall. Though you have lied about her.
>>
>>You don't recall.
>>How convenient.
>>And you wonder why I laugh so hard AT you.
>
>Do you really think I care? Your are nothing just a Blank Page to me.

And yet you keep coming back for more.

<SNIP>

MattB

unread,
Jul 10, 2016, 4:11:34 PM7/10/16
to
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 08:33:54 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
Yes I posted this thread so yes I am taking part in it. You just come
here to Troll and pretend you are something you are not. Important.
Failed Major and Pedo lover.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 10, 2016, 5:16:54 PM7/10/16
to
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:11:36 -0700, MattB <trdel...@gmail.com>
I am NOT the person who called another man's wife a whore.
You did that.
And now you say you don't recall?
What bull shit.
You even apologized for it, and then you took it back.
And now you call me a pedo?

And you wonder why you don't have any friends.

MattB

unread,
Jul 10, 2016, 7:47:36 PM7/10/16
to
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:16:58 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
Is she?

>You did that.
>And now you say you don't recall?
>What bull shit.

I public apologized for it. Your just mad because that did not make
me stop posting. You just went crazy thinking I'd backdown. Sorry
Major Wuss USAF retired, never going to happen. Rod says how he'd
like to torture me where is your threat? You two show the true RCC
Fundie dogma.

>You even apologized for it, and then you took it back.

No I did not take it back. Guess I should call her and apologize
directly.



>And now you call me a pedo?

Yes in my opinion there is a high possibility you are or have been a
pedophile.
>
>And you wonder why you don't have any friends.

Lots of friends even more acquaintances. That the best you can do.


PATRICK

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 7:42:56 AM7/11/16
to
MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick said:
>>I am NOT the person who called another man's wife a whore.
>
>Is she?

I thought you already decided that.
Why else would you say such a thing?


>>You did that.
>>And now you say you don't recall?
>>What bull shit.
>
>I public apologized for it.

But now you said you don't recall.
Make up your mind.


> Your just mad because that did not make
>me stop posting. You just went crazy thinking I'd backdown. Sorry
>Major Wuss USAF retired, never going to happen. Rod says how he'd
>like to torture me where is your threat? You two show the true RCC
>Fundie dogma.

You'll be gone soon enough.
All you loozers go by the wayside.
Eventually.
In the meantime, we will accept you as bad entertainment.



>>You even apologized for it, and then you took it back.
>
>No I did not take it back. Guess I should call her and apologize
>directly.

If you elect to raise the bar, you will be sorry.




>>And now you call me a pedo?
>
>Yes in my opinion there is a high possibility you are or have been a
>pedophile.

Find anyone in this newsgroup who values your opinion.
That would be quite a feat.


>>And you wonder why you don't have any friends.
>
>Lots of friends even more acquaintances. That the best you can do.

I'm not trying to impress you with insults.
That is what you do.

Mattb.

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 8:58:32 AM7/11/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:43:00 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:

> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick said:
>>>I am NOT the person who called another man's wife a whore.
>>
>>Is she?
>
>I thought you already decided that.
>Why else would you say such a thing?

I have no evidence to say she is at this time. You keep bringing her
into the discussions.
>
>
>>>You did that.
>>>And now you say you don't recall?
>>>What bull shit.
>>
>>I public apologized for it.
>
>But now you said you don't recall.
>Make up your mind.

I never said that.

Patrick Barker Wrote:
"That is not how it works.
You made a stupid claim.
I call you on it.
I call you a liar because what you said is patently false."

"It is up to you to prove your stupid lie."

Message-ID: <schgkbhr044e9uf3u...@4ax.com>

prove it in a un edited post.
>
>
>> Your just mad because that did not make
>>me stop posting. You just went crazy thinking I'd backdown. Sorry
>>Major Wuss USAF retired, never going to happen. Rod says how he'd
>>like to torture me where is your threat? You two show the true RCC
>>Fundie dogma.
>
>You'll be gone soon enough.
>All you loozers go by the wayside.
>Eventually.
>In the meantime, we will accept you as bad entertainment.

Well I've been saying you are entertainment for some time.


>
>
>
>>>You even apologized for it, and then you took it back.
>>
>>No I did not take it back. Guess I should call her and apologize
>>directly.
>
>If you elect to raise the bar, you will be sorry.

LOL You are nothing.
>
>
>
>
>>>And now you call me a pedo?
>>
>>Yes in my opinion there is a high possibility you are or have been a
>>pedophile.
>
>Find anyone in this newsgroup who values your opinion.
>That would be quite a feat.

LOL some do some don't
>
>
>>>And you wonder why you don't have any friends.
>>
>>Lots of friends even more acquaintances. That the best you can do.
>
>I'm not trying to impress you with insults.
>That is what you do.

No you use lies.

Now tell us about this Matthu again and Larry.

Maybe you better tell everyone how I work at Wal Mart and you have my
ID number. ROFL All you do is lie.



PATRICK

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 4:12:07 PM7/11/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 06:00:03 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:43:00 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick said:
>>>>I am NOT the person who called another man's wife a whore.
>>>
>>>Is she?
>>
>>I thought you already decided that.
>>Why else would you say such a thing?
>
>I have no evidence to say she is at this time. You keep bringing her
>into the discussions.

You deliberately called my wife a whore.
That is unforgivable.

duke

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 5:32:35 PM7/11/16
to
Absolutely. I recall it like it was today, ie, Mary is a whore.

>And now you say you don't recall?
>What bull shit.
>You even apologized for it, and then you took it back.
>And now you call me a pedo?
>And you wonder why you don't have any friends.

And others wishing to get away.

MattB

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 5:47:51 PM7/11/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 16:12:12 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 06:00:03 -0700, Mattb. <trdel...@outlook.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:43:00 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Patrick said:
>>>>>I am NOT the person who called another man's wife a whore.
>>>>
>>>>Is she?
>>>
>>>I thought you already decided that.
>>>Why else would you say such a thing?
>>
>>I have no evidence to say she is at this time. You keep bringing her
>>into the discussions.
>
>You deliberately called my wife a whore.
>That is unforgivable.

Not what the Bible says. You claiming your wife is God. Have to tell
her this when I call her.

PATRICK

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 7:23:16 PM7/11/16
to
MattB <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>You deliberately called my wife a whore.
>>That is unforgivable.
>
>Not what the Bible says. You claiming your wife is God. Have to tell
>her this when I call her.

And you wonder why everyone laughs at you.

MattB

unread,
Jul 11, 2016, 7:25:52 PM7/11/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:23:21 -0400, PATRICK <pbark...@woh.rr.com>
wrote:
So everyone does. You even know the lurkers? Maybe you think you are
God? No you lie and God doesn't lie.

Jesus only said there was one unforgivable sin.


GTG

unread,
Jul 12, 2016, 12:58:06 AM7/12/16
to
On 7/4/2016 6:56 AM, PATRICK wrote:
> I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
> Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?

It doesn't surprise me that a story about forgiveness is considered
"strange" in a Catholic group. Christ's death satisfied God's righteous
demands against our sins. This is the basis for a just God to forgive
those who trust Christ as Savior. I know you're probably not hearing
that in the Catholic church. You're probably being told forgiveness
depends on your merits or good works. That false gospel, will result in
your eternal damnation, not your forgiveness.

GTG

unread,
Jul 12, 2016, 1:01:10 AM7/12/16
to
On 7/2/2016 11:41 PM, Mattb. wrote:
>
> http://bible-truth.org/msg83.html
>
> by Cooper P. Abrams III
>
>
> I. DOES GOD REQUIRE YOU TO FORGIVE AND FORGET?
>
> I think we know the answer to that, but lets see what the Bible
> says. An unforgiving, vengeful, or bitter spirit will not only
> effect us and those around us, it will separate us from the blessing
> of God. Therefore we must forgive others no matter what the offense.
>
>
> And
>
> CONCLUSION:
>
> Sir Walter Scott had difficulty with the idea of "turning the
> other cheek." But Jesus' words took on special meaning one day when
> Scott threw a rock at a stray dog to chase it away. His aim was
> straighter and his delivery stronger than he had intended, for he hit
> the animal and broke its leg. Instead of running off, the dog limped
> over to him and licked his hand. Sir Walter never forgot that
> touching response. He said, "That dog preached the Sermon on the
> Mount to me as few ministers have ever presented it." Scott said he
> had not found human beings so ready to forgive their enemies.
>
>
> With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
> interesting article.
>
>
> Matt
>

Since Christ's death satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin,
we can have justice and forgiveness at the same time. Knowing that a
just penalty was paid for the offense against you helps people forgive.

Lucifer Morningstar

unread,
Jul 12, 2016, 5:07:21 AM7/12/16
to
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 00:00:58 -0500, GTG <nos...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2/7/2/2016 11:41 PM, Mattb. wrote:
>>
>> http://bible-truth.org/msg83.html
>>
>> by Cooper P. Abrams III
>>
>>
>> I. DOES GOD REQUIRE YOU TO FORGIVE AND FORGET?
>>
>> I think we know the answer to that, but lets see what the Bible
>> says. An unforgiving, vengeful, or bitter spirit will not only
>> effect us and those around us, it will separate us from the blessing
>> of God. Therefore we must forgive others no matter what the offense.

Should we forgive God?

>>
>> And
>>
>> CONCLUSION:
>>
>> Sir Walter Scott had difficulty with the idea of "turning the
>> other cheek." But Jesus' words took on special meaning one day when
>> Scott threw a rock at a stray dog to chase it away. His aim was
>> straighter and his delivery stronger than he had intended, for he hit
>> the animal and broke its leg. Instead of running off, the dog limped
>> over to him and licked his hand. Sir Walter never forgot that
>> touching response. He said, "That dog preached the Sermon on the
>> Mount to me as few ministers have ever presented it." Scott said he
>> had not found human beings so ready to forgive their enemies.
>>
>>
>> With what I have seen going on this past few weeks thought this was a
>> interesting article.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
>Since Christ's death satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin,
>we can have justice and forgiveness at the same time. Knowing that a
>just penalty was paid for the offense against you helps people forgive.

God caused us to sin. Romans 3:23 Romans 5:12

You are being irrational. God should be begging our forgiveness.

God needs to get of it's arse and do something good.

Please talk to an atheist psychologist.

--
Do you love Jesus in a non-faggot way?

Lucifer Morningstar

unread,
Jul 12, 2016, 5:07:30 AM7/12/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:57:54 -0500, GTG <nos...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On 4/7/2016 6:56 AM, PATRICK wrote:
>> I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>> Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?
>
>It doesn't surprise me that a story about forgiveness is considered
>"strange" in a Catholic group. Christ's death satisfied God's righteous
>demands against our sins.

God doesn't have demands against our sins.
God caused us to sin. Romans 3:23 Romans 5:12

>This is the basis for a just God to forgive
>those who trust Christ as Savior.

You are being irrational. God should be begging our forgiveness.

>I know you're probably not hearing
>that in the Catholic church. You're probably being told forgiveness
>depends on your merits or good works. That false gospel, will result in
>your eternal damnation, not your forgiveness.

duke

unread,
Jul 12, 2016, 8:35:16 AM7/12/16
to
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:57:54 -0500, GTG <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 7/4/2016 6:56 AM, PATRICK wrote:
>> I find it strange that you would post this to a Catholic newsgroup.
>> Was there some sort of lesson you are trying to convey?
>
>It doesn't surprise me that a story about forgiveness is considered
>"strange" in a Catholic group. Christ's death satisfied God's righteous
>demands against our sins.

Oh, then why did he give us the sacrament of Confession + the statement that if
we continue to willfully sin after we have learned the truth, then there is no
more sacrifice for us but only the fires of hell?

Would you care to comment?

>This is the basis for a just God to forgive
>those who trust Christ as Savior.

If you sin, you don't trust or desire to follow Christ as Savior.

> I know you're probably not hearing
>that in the Catholic church. You're probably being told forgiveness
>depends on your merits or good works.

Nope. To love and obey (you know that word?) God and to love your neighbor as
yourself.

Now that's what it takes to trust Christ as savior.

>That false gospel, will result in
>your eternal damnation, not your forgiveness.

You're headed for trouble.
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