Bad Neutral Safety Switch?
Talal Itani
On my 1997 Camry, the reverse lights do not come on. I checked the fuse,
and I tried different bulbs. Also, the gear indicator indicates the wrong
gear. For example, when the car is in neutral, the drive light comes on.
My friend told me, that a switch is bad. Maybe called Neutral Safety
Switch. Can you tell me if this is the case, and how to replace this
switch. I tried to dismantle the gear stuff, by the right-side of the
driver, but I was unable to remove the plastic parts in order to get to the
switch. Thanks for your help.
T.I.
Jeff Strickland
The linkage actually selects the gear and aims the indicator at the correct
position. I suggest parking your car in front a window or other highly
reflective surface at a position where you can observe all of the lights in
the reflection. Hit the brakes, try the turn indicators and the lights. This
will tell you what is working on the back of the car and what is not.
Once you have operated the turn, stop, and tail lights, then select R and
see if the back-up lights come on. I suspect they will not. Then, try moving
the shift lever around (fore and aft) to see if the lights work in another
position of the selector. This will confirm the linkage as a problem.
Assuming the back-up lights come on, it will confirm the NSS is good.
I make it a habit, especially at night in an empty parking lot, of backing
up to a window at ground level and checking my lights.
"Talal Itani" <tit...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Qhkxj.42205$R_5.15558@trnddc08...
Ray O
instrument panel. If the instrument panel lights work, then the gauge fuse
is OK.
First thing to check is to see if there is power at the backup light bulb
sockets. To do this, you will need a volt meter (get an inexpensive digital
one at Radio Shack or your local hardware store for under $40) or a 12 volt
test light. Set the parking brake, turn the ignition switch to the on
position without starting the engine, and shift into reverse. Check to see
if there is voltage at the bulbs with the test light or volt meter. If
there is voltage, then the replacement bulbs you tried were the incorrect
ones or they are bad. This is the most common reason that backup lights do
not work.
If there is no voltage at the sockets, then the park/neutral position switch
may be bad or the connection between the shift linkage and switch may be
loose. This will also cause the indicator lights on the instrument panel to
be incorrect. The switch is not under the center shift console, it is
located on the transmission next to where the shift linkage enters the
transmission case. Check to see that the lever on the switch moves with the
shift linkage. Testing the switch itself will require a manual. I think
there are 9 terminals, and you have to check continuity between various
terminals.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:GtGdna1BNfPLglva...@comcast.com...
What Ray said.
Caveat, if the shift indicator points to the wrong selection, then there may
be issues relative to the linkage that affects the NSS position, and the
back up lights may not work solely due to the switch being in the wrong
spot. I suggested in another post that you back the car towards a window or
similar reflective surface, then move the shift selector to see if the
lights come on in the wrong postion of the selector.
I do not know what the linkage consists of, but to gain access to the NSS,
one generally has to do it from underneath the car. There may be a linkage
adjustment inside the center console, but I'd be looking for reasons the
back up lights did not work before I set my sights on the gear selector
indicator.
Ray O
"Jeff Strickland" <cr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Umpxj.17288$Hd.6501@trnddc02...
>
<snipped>>
>> If there is no voltage at the sockets, then the park/neutral position
>> switch may be bad or the connection between the shift linkage and switch
>> may be loose. This will also cause the indicator lights on the
>> instrument panel to be incorrect. The switch is not under the center
>> shift console, it is located on the transmission next to where the shift
>> linkage enters the transmission case. Check to see that the lever on the
>> switch moves with the shift linkage. Testing the switch itself will
>> require a manual. I think there are 9 terminals, and you have to check
>> continuity between various terminals.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>
>
> What Ray said.
>
> Caveat, if the shift indicator points to the wrong selection, then there
> may be issues relative to the linkage that affects the NSS position, and
> the back up lights may not work solely due to the switch being in the
> wrong spot. I suggested in another post that you back the car towards a
> window or similar reflective surface, then move the shift selector to see
> if the lights come on in the wrong postion of the selector.
>
> I do not know what the linkage consists of, but to gain access to the NSS,
> one generally has to do it from underneath the car. There may be a linkage
> adjustment inside the center console, but I'd be looking for reasons the
> back up lights did not work before I set my sights on the gear selector
> indicator.
>
You should be able to gain access to the park/neutral position switch by
removing the air cleaner assembly.
The switch mounts on the shaft coming out of the side of the transmission
that controls gear selection. On the shaft is a groove that should be lined
up with the neutral groove on the face of the switch when the shifter is in
neutral and the parking brake is engaged. After the groove on the shaft is
lined up with the line on the switch, install the shift arm and locknut and
re-attach the shift cable. Check to make sure that the starter only engages
in park and neutral.
john...@hotmail.com
shift into N and the switch isn't, then adjust the linkage cable. Make
sure the parking brake is securely applied and all safety precautions
taken. (The A140E is the same transmission:)
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/13/f4/46/0900823d8013f446/repairInfoPages.htm
john...@hotmail.com
cable first.
Ray O
<john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffa09056-4579-42d1...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Well, if he shifts into N and the D light comes on, I'd check linkage
> cable first.
>
The shift cable connects to an arm which is connected to a rod which rotates
as the cable moves. The rotating rod passes through the park/neutral switch
and enters the transmission. If the linkage cable was out of adjustment,
then shifting into N would select the wrong range in addition to indicating
the wrong range on the instrument cluster indicator. Since the OP did not
mention that the shifter was not selecting the incorrect range, I thought it
would be more likely that the switch and not the shift cable is out of
adjustment or bad.
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
The car is selecting the wrong range. When the selected range is D, the
actual selection is N, or some variation on that. He clearly stated that the
shift lever was pointing at the wrong selection. This is precisely why I
suggested he back his car towards a window and move the shift selector fore
and aft to see if the back-up lights come on at an unexpected position of
the selector.
My point is that it seems to me that the OP doesn't really know what is
wrong, and I need a couple of tests done to help dial in on the problem.
PS
The OP could have a friend or spouse stand at the back of the car, but I
find this gives unreliable results. I prefer to use the reflection in a
window than rely on somebody with a confused idea of what they are doing
back there.
Ray O
I didn't save the original post, but from what I read, when the shifter is
not selecting the wrong range. The symptoms that I recall were that the
backup lights do not work and that the wrong range is indicated on the
instrument panel indicator. Besides the shift lever and the markings on the
console next to the shift lever, there is another indicator in the
instrument cluster, and I thought that the instrument cluster indicator is
wrong. But when he selected D, he got D.
john...@hotmail.com
comes on."
I think Jeff is right in saying that "The NSS could be bad, but I
suggest a linkage issue ahead of a bad switch." Now where is Talal?
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
I get it.
The OP said that N is indicated with D selected, but I did not pick up on
the part about having the gear selection shown in two places, or which place
the wrong indicatin is shown.
Combining the wrong indicatiion with the refusal of the back up lights to
come on when R is selected, I need to know if the back up lights come on
when something else is selected. I also need to know if the indication
changes if the selector is moved full scale to L, then moved back to the
desired gear.
In any case, to gain access to the NSS, one has to crawl under the car and
take at least a small portion of the linkage off. It would be a smart move
to inspect the other parts of the linkage for loose bolts and worn parts. I
think there is a linkage problem ahead of a NSS problem, but I haven't
enough information to know for sure.
Ray O
>
<snipped>
> I didn't save the original post, but from what I read, when the shifter is
>> not selecting the wrong range. The symptoms that I recall were that the
>> backup lights do not work and that the wrong range is indicated on the
>> instrument panel indicator. Besides the shift lever and the markings on
>> the console next to the shift lever, there is another indicator in the
>> instrument cluster, and I thought that the instrument cluster indicator
>> is wrong. But when he selected D, he got D.
>> --
>
> I get it.
>
> The OP said that N is indicated with D selected, but I did not pick up on
> the part about having the gear selection shown in two places, or which
> place the wrong indicatin is shown.
>
> Combining the wrong indicatiion with the refusal of the back up lights to
> come on when R is selected, I need to know if the back up lights come on
> when something else is selected. I also need to know if the indication
> changes if the selector is moved full scale to L, then moved back to the
> desired gear.
>
> In any case, to gain access to the NSS, one has to crawl under the car and
> take at least a small portion of the linkage off. It would be a smart move
> to inspect the other parts of the linkage for loose bolts and worn parts.
> I think there is a linkage problem ahead of a NSS problem, but I haven't
> enough information to know for sure.
The neutral safety switch is under the air filter housing, not under the
car. To access the Park/Neutral switch, you have to remove the air filter
housing.
The switch is a rotating switch, and the linkage passes through it, kind of
like putting a pencil in the spindle of a cassette tape. If the linkage
were out of adjustment, then the wrong gear range would be selected and the
gear range indicated on the dash would correspond to the gear range the
transmission is in but not the gear range that the shift lever point to.
Since the shifter position corresponds to the gear range that the
transmission has actually engaged but just the indicator lights on the dash
and reverse lights are incorrect, the most likely culprit is that the switch
has rotated out of position.
--
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
Really! I have 5 cars in my driveway, and the NSS is mounted to the side of
the transmission in 4 of them, the 5th has a manual transmission.
> The switch is a rotating switch, and the linkage passes through it, kind
> of like putting a pencil in the spindle of a cassette tape. If the
> linkage were out of adjustment, then the wrong gear range would be
> selected and the gear range indicated on the dash would correspond to the
> gear range the transmission is in but not the gear range that the shift
> lever point to. Since the shifter position corresponds to the gear range
> that the transmission has actually engaged but just the indicator lights
> on the dash and reverse lights are incorrect, the most likely culprit is
> that the switch has rotated out of position.
> --
We are a bit fuzzy on what is pointed to where.
But, it appears you and I are on the same page at the end of the day -- the
NSS works right, but is in the wrong position. I need a Camry in my stable
to know about this kind of stuff. At least I can figure it out ..
Ray O
Really. The NSS is mounted on the side of the transmission, but since the
Camry is front wheel drive with a transverse mounted engine and transaxle,
the side of the transmission ends up at the front of the car.
If all of your cars have a longitudinally mounted engine and transmission,
then you have to get at the switch from underneath. If any has a transverse
mounted engine and transmission, the NSS will be in the engine compartment.
>
>
>
>> The switch is a rotating switch, and the linkage passes through it, kind
>> of like putting a pencil in the spindle of a cassette tape. If the
>> linkage were out of adjustment, then the wrong gear range would be
>> selected and the gear range indicated on the dash would correspond to the
>> gear range the transmission is in but not the gear range that the shift
>> lever point to. Since the shifter position corresponds to the gear range
>> that the transmission has actually engaged but just the indicator lights
>> on the dash and reverse lights are incorrect, the most likely culprit is
>> that the switch has rotated out of position.
>> --
>
> We are a bit fuzzy on what is pointed to where.
I'm not quite as fuzzy - after years of listening to customers and my wife
try to describe what is going on with their cars, I've learned to decipher
customer-eze.
>
> But, it appears you and I are on the same page at the end of the day --
> the NSS works right, but is in the wrong position. I need a Camry in my
> stable to know about this kind of stuff. At least I can figure it out ..
>
>
I don't have a Camry in my stable either, but our Avalon (and my factory
repair manual for the Avalon) is close enough. For the rest of the cars, I
check them out during my annual visit to the auto show and try to remember
anything that is different from Toyota's usual setups.