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Empty3

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Jun 21, 2003, 4:41:12 PM6/21/03
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Just got a old but great looking Vette.

Mobile One is the predominant engine oil I've been told to use
(90 Corvette Coupe L98). Anything wrong with just using
Pennzoil 10-30?

What are the dos and don'ts of using Mobile One synthetic oil?

Any feedback or advice is appreciated.

MT Houston


Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 21, 2003, 4:49:02 PM6/21/03
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"Empty3" <mta...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message...

I use Pennzoil Synthetic in all of my cars (no matter what the age or
mileage). The local Jiffy Lube charges $54 instead of $24; but it's well
worth it. Synthetics have less thickening and less boil-off than regular
oils. Here is an article I posted a few years ago:


Originally published Car and Driver, November 2000
BY PATRICK BEDARD
November 2000
Now that the meaning of "is" has gotten so slippery you need to grab it with
both hands, we'd better keep an eye on longer words, too.
One's already gone squirmy on us -- "synthetic," as in synthetic motor oil.
Most guys know two things about synthetic oils. First, the price is three to
four times that of conventional oils. Second, they're not real oil, not made
from crude.
News flash: Scratch that second part. Now motor oils derived from crude may
be labeled "synthetic." But they still cost over four bucks a quart.
Bait and switch? That's the obvious conclusion. Except in this case the
advertising ethics people have given their approval.
Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade
magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its
Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO)
base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by
volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized"
petroleum base stock.
Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "World's Leading Synthetic Motor
Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising
Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often
arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.
The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant
one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude
oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from
scratch, molecule by molecule? The synthesizing of PAO starts with ethylene
gas, a simple two-carbon molecule, and builds till it gets 10-carbon
molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid
more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at
low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to
oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high
temperatures.
Still, there's more than one road to the point B of improved stability.
Petroleum refiners in recent years have learned how to break apart certain
undesirable molecules -- wax, for example, which causes thickening at low
temperatures -- and transform them by chemical reaction into helpful
molecules. These new hydroisomerized base oils, in the view of some industry
participants, "provided properties similar to PAOs but cost only half as
much," Lubricants World reported.
The argument before NAD tiptoed around the obvious -- does the consumer get
four bucks' worth of value from each quart of synthetic oil? -- and plunged
straight into deep semantics. Mobil's experts said "synthetic" traditionally
meant big molecules built up from small ones. Castrol's side held out for a
looser description, defining "synthetic" as "the product of an intended
chemical reaction."
What do unbiased sources say? It turns out that the Society of Automotive
Engineers (SAE) and the American Petroleum Institute (API) both have
technical standards covering motor oils, and both of these organizations in
the '90s backed away from their old definitions of "synthetic," leaving lots
of room for new interpretations.
In the end, NAD decided that the evidence "constitutes a reasonable basis
for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic
motor oil," said Lubricants World.
The obvious question now: Has the term "synthetic motor oil" been opened up
to the point that it no longer means anything? Maybe. But here's a better
question: Did synthetic ever mean what we thought it meant?
"Great oil" is what most guys think it means. "At that price, it's gotta be
great stuff!"
Okay, but how great? Your car's manual tells what motor oil you should use,
and with few exceptions, that description will consist of only two
specifications. One is for viscosity, such as 10W-30; and another is for the
API service grade, SJ being the current one for gasoline passenger cars.
The buck-a-quart multigrades meet these standards, as do the synthetics.
The synthetics, on the back label, claim compliance with more standards, but
even if you know what they mean, they seem beside the point for U.S.
passenger cars. For example, should you care about diesels if you drive a
gasoline burner? API service CF is the oldest of the current specs for
light-duty diesels; some synthetics list that one. Synthetics may also list
ACEA A1 and B1, which are European specs roughly equivalent to API gasoline
and diesel specs. The Europeans grade their oils by levels of performance,
so that A2 and A3 are tougher specs than A1. Same for diesels. Usually, the
date of the spec is omitted, but A1-98 is newer than A1-96.
Completely absent is the one performance claim that would have real meaning
for all of us -- some indication of longer oil life. But automakers hold
synthetics to the same change intervals as conventional oils. And the oil
companies, if anything, promise even less. "To give added protection and
life to your engine, change your oil every 3000 miles." This same language
appears on the back of both Pennzoil Synthetic and Pennzoil conventional
oils. Valvoline synthetic makes a similar recommendation.
Synthetics do get one unambiguous endorsement: Corvettes, Porsches, Vipers,
and all AMG models from Mercedes-Benz come with Mobil 1 as the factory fill.
Most synthetics mention GM 4718M in their list of claims; that's the unique
spec created by General Motors for Corvette oil. It's a high-temperature
requirement that tolerates less oxidation (thickening) and volatility
(boil-off) on a standard engine test called Sequence IIIE, according to
engineer Bob Olree of GM Powertrain.
But don't expect to learn such details on any label. Mobil 1 at least uses
straightforward declarative sentences. Most of the others read as though
they were written by a lawyer looking for an escape clause. Why else would
the following claim be so rubbery? "Pennzoil Synthetic motor oil is
recommended for use in all engines requiring ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, API SJ, SH,
or SG, and in engines requiring oils meeting GM 4718M." Okay, but does it
actually pass those standards?
"Yes," says James Newsom, Pennzoil's motor-oil product manager.
Castrol Syntec, on its label, "exceeds" every standard it mentions. Hmm. Now
that the meaning of "is" is in play, I have to wonder, does Syntec meet
those standards as well?
"It does," says Castrol's Juli Anne Oberg. While I have her on the phone, I
ask if there will be a Syntec price reduction now that a lower-cost base
stock has been substituted for the old synthetic. She says no.

Jim

unread,
Jun 21, 2003, 8:19:50 PM6/21/03
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Penzoil is the WORST oil on the market. It uses paraphin, which is wax. If
you want to use a standard oil. use Valvoline or Castrol GTX. If you are
going to use a synthetic, theay are all about the same.


"Empty3" <mta...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
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DH

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Jun 21, 2003, 9:12:28 PM6/21/03
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Ive always been a Valvoline man (hate Pennzoil) but switched to Mobil 1
after hearing about every other vette owner on the planet swear by it. Just
driving away from the place I had it done I could feel a diff. My '91 coupe
has 108k miles on it but the heads are clean enuff to eat off under the
valve covers. I do a Mobil 1 oil and filter change every 4-5k miles. That
comes to about twice a year with the mileage I put on it. Sure it costs a
bit more but my vette deserves it. And so does yours :-)

DH

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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 21, 2003, 11:57:00 PM6/21/03
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"DH" <dark...@1corvette.com> wrote in message...

> Ive always been a Valvoline man (hate Pennzoil) but switched to Mobil 1
> after hearing about every other vette owner on the planet swear by it.
Just
> driving away from the place I had it done I could feel a diff. My '91
coupe
> has 108k miles on it but the heads are clean enuff to eat off under the
> valve covers. I do a Mobil 1 oil and filter change every 4-5k miles. That
> comes to about twice a year with the mileage I put on it. Sure it costs a
> bit more but my vette deserves it. And so does yours :-)

I know most folks here prefer to do their own oil changes, but I have been
doing the $59 synthetic oil changes at the local Jiffy Lube in all of my
cars. The Pennzoil and Castrol synthetics have *exactly* the same
certifications that the Mobil 1 synthetic does.

Empty3

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Jun 22, 2003, 10:51:36 AM6/22/03
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All,

Thanks for the feedback. Mobile One it is! I too will only need about 2
changes per year
due.

Cheers!

"Empty3" <mta...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
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Procrastination Racing

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Jun 22, 2003, 12:37:25 PM6/22/03
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I bet if you check, generic Wal Mart oil or K-Mart oil does also. Those
certifications have to be met by all to have a certain level and are usually
loose enough to let various manufacturer put a lot of differences in their
brand.

Otherwise, wouldn't they all be the same? Kind of like the Rochester
QuadraJet and the Carter QuadraJet.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
What a piece of junk my HP Officejet is!
With their total lack of support, I recommend no one ever buy HP again.


-
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Procrastination Racing

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Jun 22, 2003, 12:41:32 PM6/22/03
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All said and done on what is best, the only oil related failures I've ever
in 20 years of racing had have been oil-starvation, and $1 a quart or $10 a
quart, dino or synthetic, won't solve that problem.

Other than the time some person dumped Slick 50 Teflon into the engine,
which took out the crank in short order.


--------------------------------------------------------------
What a piece of junk my HP Officejet is!
With their total lack of support, I recommend no one ever buy HP again.


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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 22, 2003, 4:29:27 PM6/22/03
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"Procrastination Racing" <procrast_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message ..

> I bet if you check, generic Wal Mart oil or K-Mart oil does also. Those
> certifications have to be met by all to have a certain level and are
usually
> loose enough to let various manufacturer put a lot of differences in their
> brand.


Good point, but those synthetics have some serious specifications to meet.
I searched google for synthetic+oil+comparison but nothing enlightening
came up. I use that Jiffy Lube synthetic in all of my cars and SUV's; and
have never had an oil problem in any car. They use Pennzoil or Quaker
State, IIRC. It's not a no-name brand; and I assume it is as good as
Mobil 1.

Charlie

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Jun 22, 2003, 6:28:23 PM6/22/03
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My 93 calls for Mobil 1 synthetic and that's all I use.

--
Charlie
1993 Convertible Corvette
cpa...@houston.rr.com
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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 22, 2003, 10:38:55 PM6/22/03
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"Charlie" <cpa...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message...

> My 93 calls for Mobil 1 synthetic and that's all I use.

Actually, if your 93 is anything like my 98, 01, and 03; it says synthetic
oil that meets standards posted in the owners manual. On the oil filler cap
it has a Mobil 1 logo my 01, but not my 03.

Bob Irelan

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Jun 23, 2003, 7:56:56 PM6/23/03
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Humm, our '03 'vert has "Mobil1" on the oil filler cap.

Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 23, 2003, 8:28:25 PM6/23/03
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"Bob Irelan" <bir...@chaterNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
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> Humm, our '03 'vert has "Mobil1" on the oil filler cap.

It's not on my Z06. I suspect it may be across the GM board as well - my
02 Dually had an oil cap with oil specs on it, my 03 Avalanche has nothing
on the cap.


L C

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Jun 24, 2003, 6:20:07 AM6/24/03
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How does Royal Purple stack up against any of the major brands? Is it
alot of hype, or is it all its cracked up to be? Thanks for any info!
Larry

dave

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Jun 24, 2003, 7:48:48 AM6/24/03
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I have used AMSOIL (.com) Ow30 synthetic in all my cars for the last 8
years. They offer an independent 4 ball wear test that proves it beats
Mobil 1 and Castrol hands down . The Ow30 gives excellent cold start
lubrication...and meets high temp driving as well. When choosing a good
motor oil, you need to try and find an 'independent' test on the major
brands...and not rely on hype.

Dave

Charlie Funk

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Jun 24, 2003, 9:18:46 AM6/24/03
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If the prior owner used synthetic in the car, continue to use it. If the
prior owner used a "regular" motor oil, switching to a synthetic may create
problems. There have been reports (urban legends?) of synthetic oil
detergents and additives dissolving or causing deposits to loosen in an
engine which led to oil leaks. I included the note about urban legend
because the same stories about leaks made the rounds when detergent oils
were first introduced in the fifties.

--
Charlie Funk
Just Cruisin' Plus
800 888-0922
615 833-0922
www.justcruisinplus.com
We prefer the MasterCard card


"Empty3" <mta...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
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Mike

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Jun 24, 2003, 5:59:38 PM6/24/03
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Royal Purple was developed for Union Oil back in 1950
as one of the first high detergent oils for use in diesel
engines. It gained popularity since it was the first oil
that really kept hydraulic valve lifters clean. Real
problem in the Lincoln, Olds and Cadillac engines of
that era. Over the years it has been marketed by several
oil companies. It was good stuff. Probably in a league
with any other conventional oil of similar ASTM grade.

The unique purple color was a dye that held up at
high temps.

Regards, "Mike"
-- mikeell...@zzzcox.net --

Bob Irelan

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Jun 24, 2003, 8:52:10 PM6/24/03
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Humm, switched the Astro at 95,000 miles to Mobil 1 (only vehicle out of
4 that didn't call for it) and no leaks yet, at 105,000. Must be urban
legend.

Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 24, 2003, 9:25:04 PM6/24/03
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"Charlie Funk" <cha...@justcruisinplus.com> wrote in message...

> If the prior owner used synthetic in the car, continue to use it. If the
> prior owner used a "regular" motor oil, switching to a synthetic may
create
> problems. There have been reports (urban legends?) of synthetic oil
> detergents and additives dissolving or causing deposits to loosen in an
> engine which led to oil leaks. I included the note about urban legend
> because the same stories about leaks made the rounds when detergent oils
> were first introduced in the fifties.


I think that is an urban legend. I recently read that going from dino to
synthetic is viable at any mileage.

Dad

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Jun 24, 2003, 10:15:03 PM6/24/03
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I switched my18 year old garden tractor over to Mobil 1 and no leaks.

Reason, it starts better in the winter when I plow snow, turns over better,
uses less oil, less gas to mow 2 acres.

Changed the Astro over on the second oil change, picked up about 2.5 miles
per gallon on the second 10,000 miles.

Changed the Eldorado over to Mobil 1 at about 100,000 with no leaks, now the
Seville, that's another story. Do you know what the Northstar holds? Got rid
of that sucker. Did not like the Northstar, no guts until you were double
the speed limit.

--
Dad
98 C5 Black/Black/Auto
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd


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Charlie

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Jun 25, 2003, 12:21:31 AM6/25/03
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On page 252 of my manual, under Service & Appearance Care it says "Your
Corvette engine is filled at the factory with a Mobil 1 synthetic oil, which
meets all requirements for your vehicle."

--
Charlie
1993 Convertible Corvette
cpa...@houston.rr.com

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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 25, 2003, 10:36:11 AM6/25/03
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"Charlie" <cpa...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message ...

> On page 252 of my manual, under Service & Appearance Care it says "Your
> Corvette engine is filled at the factory with a Mobil 1 synthetic oil,
which
> meets all requirements for your vehicle."

Mobil 1 *is not* the only oil that meets all of the requirements of your
vehicle. Mobil 1 probably paid a shitload of money to be picked by GM as
the first oil; just as Chevron paid a ton of money to be the gas that is
put in the tank first. In fact, Chevron totes that fact in about 50% of
their commercials. You snipped one sentence out of an entire statement.


2003 Z06 Corvette Owners Manual
Page 5-15
What kind of Engine Oil to Use

Look for two things:

-GM4718M
Your vehicle engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M.
Oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However, not
all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. You should look for and use
only an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M. Notice: If you use oils that
don't have the GM Standard GM4718M designation, you can cause engine damage
not covered by your warranty.

- As shown in the chart, SAE 5W-30 is the best for your vehicle. Do not use
other viscosity oils. Oils meeting this requirement should also have the
API Certified starburst symbol on the container. You should look for this on
the oil container, and use only those oils that are identified as meeting
the GM Standard GM4718M and have the starburst symbol on the front of the
oil container. Your vehicle's engine was filled at the factory with a Mobil
1 synthetic oil, which meets the requirements for your vehicle.

Substitute Engine Oil
When adding oil to maintain the engine oil level, oil meeting GM Standard
GM4718M may not be available. You can substitute oil designated SAE 5W-30
with the starburst symbol. Substitute oil not meeting GM Standard GM4718M
should not be used for an oil change.

Charlie

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Jun 25, 2003, 11:57:32 AM6/25/03
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Point being, the manufacturer chose Mobil 1, while others may meet the
standard, why take the risk? I know by using Mobil 1, I wouldn't have been
in a bad situation if something happened to the engine. They couldn't come
back and say I violated the warranty by using something different.

--
Charlie
1993 Convertible Corvette
cpa...@houston.rr.com

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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 25, 2003, 2:59:13 PM6/25/03
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"Charlie" <cpa...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message ...
> Point being, the manufacturer chose Mobil 1, while others may meet the
> standard, why take the risk? I know by using Mobil 1, I wouldn't have
been
> in a bad situation if something happened to the engine. They couldn't
come
> back and say I violated the warranty by using something different.

The manufacturer also put Goodyear tires on your car, a Delco oil filter on
the car, hella bulbs, and a host of other parts that have equal quality
competitors. GM had to pick somebody, and Mobil 1 probably paid money to
be the sponsor of that item. You think Mobil 1 got their name on the oil
filler cap for free? Highest bidder does not always equal best product.
The owners manual barely mentions Mobil 1, as my post of the entire chapter
indicated. All they cared about was the GM Standard GM4718M adherence.
There are oils that are better, equal, and worse than Mobil 1.

Charlie

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Jun 25, 2003, 3:59:01 PM6/25/03
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I keep mine fairly stock, I use Delco filters, Mobil 1 oil and most my parts
come from the dealer (most parts stores have the wrong info on the 93).
But, I run Firestone tires and have an Interstate battery.

--
Charlie
1993 Convertible Corvette
cpa...@houston.rr.com
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Hob...@calvinball.net

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Jun 25, 2003, 10:31:54 PM6/25/03
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"Charlie" <cpa...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
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> I keep mine fairly stock, I use Delco filters, Mobil 1 oil and most my
parts
> come from the dealer (most parts stores have the wrong info on the 93).
> But, I run Firestone tires and have an Interstate battery.

Optima batteries are amazing. You will shave weight from your car and have
a more durable and long lasting battery. Delco duraguard and gold
ultraguard filters suck, BTW; as it is really just a $3 Champion filter
with a different logo. Tires, I run stock on all of my cars; though I am
getting Mickey Thompson Street Slicks for my 2003 Z06 so I can do better at
the local NHRA track where I race it. I do not use Mobil 1, but instead
use synthetic that Jiffy Lube sells (Castrol or Pennzoil, IIRC). For
filters I use the Purolator. Here is a link to a good filter study, and
IMHO a shitty filter can cause you as much pain as a poor oil.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html


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