How can we know the universe is real?

[Jahnu]

According to Krishna’s statement in Bhagavad Gita, the universe is
unreal.

However, if you throw yourself off of a high building - as you plummet
to the ground you’ll think the universe is real enough. So how can
something, like this material world, seem so real, even though it is
unreal? How do we even define real and unreal?

When, during sleep, we are in a dream, it seems real enough. It is
only when we wake up, we understand the dream was not real. Similarly,
death will be an awakening from the dream that was our life in a
material body.

But we don’t have to wait till death to wake up. To wake up to
reality, however, we must first understand that we're asleep. We souls
inhabiting the material world are under the influence of Krishna's
illusory potency - Maya Devi. Just as one forgets his life during a
dream at night, we live in ignorance of our real identity, and are
considered to be spiritually asleep.

The "reality" to which we have become so accustomed is a dream. Our
spiritual existence, the one we have forgotten - our eternal existence
in the spiritual realm - is the reality. The human life-form is a
unique and rare opportunity for the soul to learn how to distinguish
reality from illusion.

In a dream, everything seems quite real. We go through the same
register of emotions and impressions as when we are awake. What, then,
makes a dream unreal? When do we know the dream is unreal? That's
right, when we wake up.

In Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krishna points out that reality is that which
exists without cessation, and unreality is that which has a beginning
and an end. Real existence is continuous and everlasting. Our life in
a material body is unreal because it comes to an end.

Krishna says:

"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the
nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the
eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by
studying the nature of both." (Bhagavad-gita 2.16)

When Lord Krishna speaks of the material body as "nonexistent," He is
referring to its being temporary; its existence is not a permanent
fact. ‘Nonexistent’ does not mean, the material body and the material
world don't exist, or that they are ‘false’. What it means is that
they are temporary. In contrast to eternal time, our current temporary
existence is fleeting and insubstantial--a short flash in the pan,
like a dream.

Even a long dream like life will come to an end, and in the realm of
eternity a lifespan of sixty, eighty, or even a hundred years is such
a miniscule glimpse in the vastness of eternity that it doesn't even
register.

The same is true of the computer I am writing on. Even if I left it
sitting alone on my desk and never again touched it, time would
eventually destroy it, its form would cease to exist. However long
that would take is immaterial.

To us a thousand or a million years seem like a substantial amount of
time. But from the point of view of, say, Lord Brahma, the first
created living being (who lives for the unfathomable time of 311.04
trillion solar years), surely my computer, the desk my computer sits
on, as well as the house that surrounds the desk, cannot be said to
actually exist.

Before Lord Brahma has even finished his morning ablutions, we would
have died and been born again a million times. Brahma's lifespan is
the same as the lifespan of the universe. So from Brahma's point of
view, our lives are so short and insignificant that for all practical
purposes they might as well not have been. Similarly, in the eternity
of the spiritual realm, Lord Brahma and the universe we live in are as
insignificant and non-existent, as we are in relation to Brahma.

Krishna says:

By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration
of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his night.

At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest
from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they
are merged into the unmanifest again.

Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come
into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly
annihilated.

Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is
transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is
supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is
annihilated, that part remains as it is.

(Bg. 8.17-20)

So the unreality of life is that it ends. Also, it can never fulfill
the promise of happiness we are always longing for. That's the real
illusion of material life. One may consider enjoyment in the material
world substantial. What's wrong with enjoying? What's wrong with
seeking some happiness?

The answer is that the pleasures of the body and mind always end. Such
pleasure can never satisfy the self. Since the self is eternal, it
longs for eternal pleasure.

Krishna says:

"An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them."

(Bhagavad-gita 5.22)

As we can see from Krishna's words here, not only can we not find
satisfaction in temporary pleasures, but the same pleasures will also
cause us suffering. Misery always follows material happiness. Because
the soul is eternal by constitution, we cannot find satisfaction in a
temporary body.

Life in the material world can never satisfy us, no matter how much
sense gratification we get. It is exactly like a dream. We may
experience some sense of happiness, as we engage in pleasurable
activities, but we always have to wake up to the reality of misery and
lamentation. In a dream we wake up to our daily life, and in life we
wake up to disease, old age, death, or some other calamity.

In life the activities we engage in become memories, and these
memories are like dreams. All the good and bad experiences we have had
in the past are now just memories - like a dream we may have had. In
essence there is no difference between a dream we once had, and
something that actually happened to us.

When an old man sits outside the mall wearily eyeing the young ladies
hurrying by, it is of little comfort to him to think about the
pleasures he once had with women. Sometimes people say they’ve had a
full life, that they have nice memories to fall back on. But the fact
is that the memories of past pleasures cannot satisfy us. The memories
of enjoyment we had in the past or hope to have in the future cannot
satisfy the deep longings for fulfillment that live in our hearts.

Our senses and mind can find some temporary relief in relationships,
or even in possessions, but then it is over. Even if we love the same
person faithfully throughout life, and that person loves us back, the
happiness cannot last--there is bound to be separation, and then
misery sets in. There is no way to avoid it - the end station in
material life is lamentation.

Now, if there weren't any alternative to life in a material body,
existence would be bleak, indeed. Many people who have no knowledge of
the positive alternative of Krishna consciousness, find the truth
about the material world a depressing message. But just as a dream
denotes something real, so our temporary material life is nothing but
a distorted reflection of our real, eternal life.

In reality, we are eternally full of knowledge and bliss. But being
absorbed in the body and its culture, we cannot see that. Instead we
try to find happiness in a body that is destined to perish.

The sages tell us that the solution to this pitiful condition, the
means to get out of this existential ignorance, is to chant the Hare
Krishna mantra.

Therefore the members of the Hare Krishna movement are very eager to
get everyone to chant -

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

"This mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
means against evil in the age of Kali. After searching through all the
Vedic literature, one cannot find a method of religion more sublime
for this age than the chanting of Hare Krishna."

--- Kali-santarana Upanishad

[Lucifer]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:50:58 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>When, during sleep, we are in a dream, it seems real enough. It is
>only when we wake up, we understand the dream was not real. Similarly,
>death will be an awakening from the dream that was our life in a
>material body.

Everything that makes "you" exists in your brain.
When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist at all.

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:52:12 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>Everything that makes "you" exists in your brain.
>When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist at all.

You think? :D


"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

[Lucifer]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 05:40:35 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:52:12 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>Everything that makes "you" exists in your brain.
>>When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist at all.
>
>You think? :D

I'm just the messenger.

>"When people believe in God, they believe in anything."
>   --  GK Chesterton

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:51:43 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch, moan whine

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego --
all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior
energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting
the resources of this material, inferior nature.

All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that
is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain
that I am both the origin and the dissolution.

O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.


--Bhagavad Gita 7.1-7

[Lucifer]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:20:21 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:51:43 +1000, Lucifer went:

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:46:27 +1000, Lucy wrote:

>Everything that makes "you" exists in your brain.
>When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist at all.

You disprove that. You have no brain activity, still you are here
bitching and moaning non-stop.

Krishna says:

Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among
mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the
atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me. (Bg 7.15 )

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 03:29:01 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:46:27 +1000, Lucy wrote:
>
>>Everything that makes "you" exists in your brain.
>>When brain activity ceases "you" won't exist at all.
>
>You disprove that. You have no brain activity, still you are here
>bitching and moaning non-stop.

I have some good news for you. You don't need [G|g]od(s)
to feel worthwhile. You are punishing yourself by hating everybody.
Seriously you should consult a psychologist.

God exists because God exists. Or what? God exists
because of a big explosion? God exists because of chemicals?
God exists because of random chance? That’s just too dumb for
words.

George Carlin says:

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have
to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and
exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion.
Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:39:38 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch moan whine

Krishna says:

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not
to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found
in them. (Bg 16.7)

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other
than lust. (Bg. 16.8)

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves
and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works
meant to destroy the world. (Bg. 16.9)

Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride
and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to
unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. (Bg. 16.10)

They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of
human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is
immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires
and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for
sense gratification. (Bg. 16.11-12)

Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of
illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and
fall down into hell. (Bg. 16.16)

Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demons
become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated
in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against
the real religion. (Bg. 16.18)

Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, I
perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence, into various
demoniac species of life. (Bg. 16. 19)

Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, O son
of Kunti, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down
to the most abominable type of existence. (Bg. 16.20)

[Lucifer]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:25:47 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:39:38 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>>bitch moan whine
>
>Krishna says:
>
>Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not
>to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found
>in them. (Bg 16.7)

Question:
If everybody in India stopped eating meat would that stop the
spread of disease caused by open defecation?

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:27:09 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch moan whine

Brahma (god of creation) says:

Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no
other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

=> Brahma-samhita, 5.1

[Lucifer]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 11:49:16 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:27:09 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>>bitch moan whine
>
>Brahma (god of creation) says:
>
>Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
>eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no

>other origin and He is the prime cause of all our problems.
>
> => Brahma-samhita, 5.1
>
>
>

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:37:33 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>bitch moan whine

Krishna says:

[Lucifer]

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 03:01:18 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:37:33 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>bitch moan whine
>
>Krishna says:
>
>Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
>of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
>doubt.

Does that include advertising and in ap purchases?

Are you the god that created this?

"Open defecation is a major cause of fatal diarrhea. Everyday about
2000 children aged less than five succumb to diarrhea and every 40
seconds a life is lost. It is depressing that all this needless
suffering is actually preventable. In densely populated countries
like India, the health impact is magnified many fold."


and this


“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond
all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to
compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive,
many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others
are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands
of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be
so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will
automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural
state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of
electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic
replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are
going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor
any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the
properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no
purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 09:59:53 +1000, Lucifer wrote:

>So please answer the Question:
>If everybody in the US stopped eating meat would that stop the
>spread of disease caused by flushing shit paper into the oceans?

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from

doubt. (Bg 7.1)

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you

to know. (Bg. 7.2)

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 05:34:43 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 09:59:53 +1000, Lucifer wrote:
>
>>So please answer the Question:
>>If everybody in the US stopped eating meat would that stop the
>>spread of disease caused by flushing shit paper into the oceans?

"It is a matter of national concern as India has the most number of
people practicing open defecation in the world, around 600 million."

"Open defecation is a major cause of fatal diarrhea. Everyday about
2000 children aged less than five succumb to diarrhea and every 40
seconds a life is lost. It is depressing that all this needless
suffering is actually preventable. In densely populated countries
like India, the health impact is magnified many fold."

So please answer the Question:

If everybody in India stopped eating meat would that stop the
spread of disease caused by open defecation?

Could that be a desirable side effect of people in India not eating
meat?

Does it not concern you that open defecation is a major cause
of fatal diarrhea?

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:55:56 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch moan whine

Krishna says:

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other
than lust.

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves
and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works
meant to destroy the world.

Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride
and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to
unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.

They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of
human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is
immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires
and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for
sense gratification. (

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I
will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it
will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have
killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of
everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am
the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none
so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall
give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such
persons are deluded by ignorance.

Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of
illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and
fall down into hell.

Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false
prestige, they sometimes proudly perform sacrifices in name only,
without following any rules or regulations.

Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demons
become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated
in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against
the real religion.

Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, I
perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence, into various
demoniac species of life.

Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, O son
of Kunti, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down
to the most abominable type of existence.

—Bhagavad-gita 16.8-20

[Lucifer]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:48:50 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:55:56 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>>bitch moan whine
>
>Krishna says:
>
>They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
>control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other
>than lust.

I don't know anybody who says that.

How many gods don't you believe in?

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:27:35 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>I don't know anybody who says that.

You really ought to get out more.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

[Lucifer]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:13:09 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:27:35 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>

>Krishna says:
>
>They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
>control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other
>than lust.
>
>

>>I don't know anybody who says that.
>
>You really ought to get out more.
>
>Krishna says:
>
>Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
>of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
>doubt.

We know Krisha created this.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:41:07 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>bitch maon whine

HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989


The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16


The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year


The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times


The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33


The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.


The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004


The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive


The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:29:27 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:41:07 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>bitch maon whine
>
>HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

Question:
If everybody in India stopped eating meat would that stop the
spread of disease caused by open defecation?

It's a valid question given the following;

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:40:01 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch maon whine

Meat-eaters stink like shit.

HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:54:02 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:40:01 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>>bitch maon whine
>
>Meat-eaters stink like shit.

You are not interested in promoting a religion or a better world.
You contradict yourself and make stupid mistakes.
You are looking for reasons to hate everyone.
You are not interested in what I post because you don't care
about cows or people.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 21:14:18 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch maon whine

How is there existence? Because there is. Existence is eternal. So the
questions - how and why is there existence? is best answered - God is
the eternal cause of all causes.

In other words - existence is causeless. There is no cause other than
the supreme person. So there is no material cause to existence. That’s
why it’s called causeless.

How can something be causeless? The only reason something is
causeless, is if that something has always existed. Otherwise, there
has to be a beginning point - the first cause.

In science it is asserted that the first cause is material. In the
Vedic model, it is pointed out that the first cause must be conscious.
Otherwise, how are we conscious?

So the Vedic model clearly provides the best explanation for the
reality of our existence.

The faith i atheism - that the first cause is material, is an
irrational, blind type of faith. It is a non-observable phenomenon,
and is thereby unscientific. The Vedic model - that life comes from
life - it’s not even a matter of faith. It is a direct, observable
fact of nature,

So atheists are basically ignorant people - ignorant of the first
cause.

Krishna says:

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other

than lust. (Bg. 16.8)

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves
and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works

meant to destroy the world. (Bg. 16.9)

Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride
and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to

unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. (Bg. 16.10)

[Lucifer]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:13:32 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 21:14:18 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>>bitch maon whine
>
>How is there existence? Because there is. Existence is eternal. So the
>questions - how and why is there existence? is best answered - God is
>the eternal cause of all causes.

Therefore God is the cause of all our problems.

God wants the world this way,

[duckg...@cox.net]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:50:58 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>According to Krishna’s statement in Bhagavad Gita, the universe is
>unreal.

Educated people can see.

the dukester

[Cloud Hobbit]

Jesper lied:

>Krishna says:

Absolutely nothing.

Krishna is a fictional character who never existed.

Nonexistent entities don't say anything. They don't teach anything, they don't do anything.

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:48:49 -0500, duckg...@cox.net wrote:

>Educated people can see.

So that excludes you.

Krishna says:

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything
emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My
devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. (Bg 10.8)

The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully
devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss
from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me. (Bg
10.9)

To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give
the understanding by which they can come to Me. (Bg 10.10)

To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with
the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.
(Bhagavad Gita 10.11)

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:02:24 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:48:49 -0500, duckg...@cox.net wrote:
>
>>Educated people can see.
>
>So that excludes you.
>
>Krishna says:
>
>I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything
>emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My
>devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. (Bg 10.8)

Out of fear and stupidity.

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 18:54:10 +1000, Lucifer went:

>bitch moan whine

I have yet to see an atheist who was willing to critically evaluate
atheism, to actually study the ramifications of atheism. Or even to
doubt his conviction, there is no God. Atheists never doubt their
convictions.

Just as you can have blind faith, you can also have blind doubts.
Like, atheists doubt only religion, they don’t for a minute doubt the
way they were brought up to believe and think, they don’t doubt what
they learned in school. They don’t doubt the American way. That’s
blind doubts

So, you can either be a brain-dead Mickey Mouse clone, who can’t think
beyond the ways he was brought up in a Hollywood culture, or you can
be a thinking human being.

The choice is yours.

Krishna says:

O winner of wealth, now please listen as I tell you in detail of the
different kinds of understanding and determination, according to the
three modes of material nature. (Bg 18.29)

O son of Pritha, that understanding by which one knows what ought to
be done and what ought not to be done, what is to be feared and what
is not to be feared, what is binding and what is liberating, is in the
mode of goodness. (Bg 18.30)

O son of Pritha, that understanding which cannot distinguish between
religion and irreligion, between action that should be done and action
that should not be done, is in the mode of passion. (Bg 18.31)

That understanding which considers irreligion to be religion and
religion to be irreligion, under the spell of illusion and darkness,
and strives always in the wrong direction, O Partha, is in the mode of
ignorance. (Bg 18.32)

[duckg...@cox.net]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:02:24 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:48:49 -0500, duckg...@cox.net wrote:
>
>>Educated people can see.
>
>So that excludes you.

No, I can see it. Maybe you think all those nite light are grass eaters
planting grass at night.


the dukester

[Lucifer]

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:40:58 -0500, duckg...@cox.net wrote:

>No, I can see it. Maybe you think all those nite light are grass eaters
>planting grass at night.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

[duckg...@cox.net]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 04:36:09 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:40:58 -0500, duckg...@cox.net wrote:
>
>>No, I can see it. Maybe you think all those nite light are grass eaters
>>planting grass at night.
>
>Krishna says:

Even k understands.

the dukester

[TT Liams]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:17:18 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 18:54:10 +1000, Lucifer went:


> >bitch moan whine


> I have yet to see an atheist who was willing to critically evaluate
> atheism, to actually study the ramifications of atheism. Or even to
> doubt his conviction, there is no God. Atheists never doubt their
> convictions.

> Krishna says:

Krishna is Satin, rumdum. Your gone to hell

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:58:51 -0400, TT Liams <drliams@t.t> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:17:18 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 18:54:10 +1000, Lucifer went:
>
>
>> >bitch moan whine
>
>
>> I have yet to see an atheist who was willing to critically evaluate
>> atheism, to actually study the ramifications of atheism. Or even to
>> doubt his conviction, there is no God. Atheists never doubt their
>> convictions.

The deliberate, proven serial liar knows there is nothing to evaluate
because all it means is that we aren't theist. We don't have the
beliefs that stupid theists invent for us because they can't think
outside the box.

The only ramifications are when theists like him can't live and let
live,

And...

WHAT FUCKING "CONVICTION, THERE IS NO GOD" was the lying liar lying
about? That is a perfect example of a stupid theist inventing a
position we don't have, because he can't think outside the box to
accept that his god is merely somebody else's religious belief.


>> Krishna says:

WHAT FUCKING KRISHNA?

>Krishna is Satin, rumdum. Your gone to hell

Religion makes people stupid as well as narcissistic.

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:04:45 -0500, Christopher A. FLee went:

>bitch moan whine

Krishna says:

Those who study the Vedas and drink the soma juice, seeking the
heavenly planets, worship Me indirectly. Purified of sinful reactions,
they take birth on the pious, heavenly planet of Indra, where they
enjoy godly delights. (Bg. 9.20)

When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the
results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this
mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering
to the principles of the three Vedas achieve only repeated birth and
death. (Bg. 9.21)

But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on
My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve
what they have. (Bg. 9.22)

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith
actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong
way. (Bg. 9.23)

I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those
who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. (Bg.
9.24)

Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods;
those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship
ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who
worship Me will live with Me. (Bg. 9.25)

Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender
unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of
worship according to their own natures. (Bg. 7.20)

[TT Liams]

Your rite. Religion is for rumdum's

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 23:58:24 -0400, TT Liams <drliams@t.t> wrote:

>Your rite. Religion is for rumdum's

Your rite? hahaha :) Get an education, retard.

The sages say:

O learned one, in this iron age of Kali men have but short lives. They
are quarrelsome, lazy, misguided, unlucky and, above all, always
disturbed.

-- Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.1.10

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 11:34:06 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 23:58:24 -0400, TT Liams <drliams@t.t> wrote:
>
>>Your rite. Religion is for rumdum's
>
>Your rite? hahaha :) Get an education, retard.

He kneads a spell chequer to.

>The sages say:
>
>Bitch whine moan

[Kurt Nicklas]

Ever read Shakespeare? Dostoyevsky? Dickens?

Did you learn anything from the characters?