What's the middle ground between belief in God and atheism?

[Jahnu]

It's called ignorance. If we don’t know God, it’s due to ignorance.
Some people are just ignorant of God, but they don’t worry too much
about it. They just want to live their lives without adding God to the
mix.

Then there are the preaching atheists, they advocate atheism as some
kind of virtue. When asked about it, they can’t really tell you what
the virtues of atheism are. The only thing they can come up with is -
atheism has freed us from the tyranny of religion. Atheism has made us
think for ourselves and so on.

Think for yourselves? hahaha :D

If you didn’t have TV, newspapers, and magazines to tell you what to
think and believe, you’d be in deep shit. Where is the independent
thinking, when you have full faith in the way you were brought in a
Coca-cola society, and the crap they taught you in school?

—but, but NASA put men on the moon in 1969, Ah seen it on TV, and they
also taught us in school.

So, where is the free thinking, when all you do, is living a life
dictated by big money corporations? and the Stars and Stripes, of
course. How is it free thinking.

—but, but Ah seen it on TV.

Srila Prabhupada says:

Now spiritualism, spiritualism means that we should identify ourselves
as God's party. That's all. That is spiritualism. They ask so many
things, that, why the materialists are called crazy by the
spiritualists? Oh, that is also partyism. These materialists also
call, say to the spiritualists, they are crazy.

Just like we are, we have formed some Society of Krishna
Consciousness, and, and those who do not like it, they say we are
crazy fellows. We are assembly of crazy fellows. And, similarly, we
call others who do not associate with us, they are crazy fellows. So
there is, we have written pamphlet, booklet, "Who is Crazy?".

Now how to decide? You are thinking the Swamiji and the party, they
are crazy. And we are thinking those who are materially engaged,
they're crazy. Now how to decide it?

Can you suggest any way how to decide it, how, who is crazy? Who will
decide it? Everyone, two parties, when there is something
disagreement, the two parties will say that, "You are in wrong," the
other party will say, "You are..." Now who will decide it? That who is
wrong? Can you suggest any one of you who'll decide?

The world is going on in partyism and each opposite party is thinking
that the other party is crazy. Now who will decide who is actually
crazy? The actual... Then you have come to the point of reason, who is
crazy?

Now just see. Take any common man. Not yourself, not myself. Any
common man. If you ask him that, "What you are?", he'll say... His
conception is that I am this body. Everyone will say. He'll give you
some description that, "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am Mr. Such
and Such." "I am Mrs. Such and Such."

Everything, whatever he or she will say, that is all due to this body.
All due to this body. Everyone. When you say, "You are American," that
means this is the body.

Because by accident, by something, by some reason, you were born in
this land of America. That is also another artificial name. The land
is neither America nor India. The land is land. But we give some
designation, "This is America." We make some boundary. This is United
States of America. This is Canada. This is Europe, and this is Asia.
This is India.

So this is our name, but actually was there any history that the land
is American, or the land...? Say, four hundred years before, or five
hundred years before, was this land was known as America? You have
named it, America.

Say, some thousands of years before was this, this, the continent
which is known as, I mean, Europe, can you trace out history, that it
was known as Europe? They are all designations.

Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 9.34 -- New York, December 26, 1966, "Who is
Crazy?"

[Lucifer]

On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 19:11:00 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>It's called ignorance. If we don’t know God, it’s due to ignorance.
>Some people are just ignorant of God, but they don’t worry too much
>about it. They just want to live their lives without adding God to the
>mix.

God has the power to make Itself known to It's own creation
but fails to do so.
You are saying God screwed up.
Surely the situation in India with open defecation is unaceptable
for a God.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:06:10 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>God has the power to make Itself known to It's own creation
>but fails to do so.
>You are saying God screwed up.
>Surely the situation in India with open defecation is unaceptable
>for a God.

Funny how you know so much about God, Lucy :D

Arjuna says:

O descendant of Vrishni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even
unwillingly, as if engaged by force? — Bg 3.36

Krishna says:

It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material
mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the
all-devouring sinful enemy of this world. — Bg 3.37

As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the
embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered
by different degrees of this lust. — Bg 3.38

Thus the wise living entity’s pure consciousness becomes covered by
his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satis?ed and
which burns like fire. — Bg 3.39

The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of
this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living
entity and bewilders him. — Bg 3.40

Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bharatas, in the very beginning curb
this great symbol of sin [lust] by regulating the senses, and slay
this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization. — Bg 3.41

The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than
the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he [the
soul] is even higher than the intelligence. — Bg 3.42

Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to the material senses, mind
and intelligence, O mighty-armed Arjuna, one should steady the mind by
deliberate spiritual intelligence [Krishna consciousness] and thus –
by spiritual strength – conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust. —
Bg 3.43

[Malcolm McMahon]

On Monday, 1 July 2019 14:41:04 UTC+1, Jahnu wrote:
> It's called ignorance.

It's called agnosticism. The admission that we don't, and probably can't know.

[Lucifer]

On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 06:50:39 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:06:10 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>God has the power to make Itself known to It's own creation
>>but fails to do so.
>>You are saying God screwed up.
>>Surely the situation in India with open defecation is unaceptable
>>for a God.
>
>Funny how you know so much about God, Lucy :D

I only know what people tell me.
If you don't correct me I'll assume I'm right.

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 01:24:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
<malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>It's called agnosticism. The admission that we don't, and probably can't know.

Yes, it's called ignorance. The idea that we can't know about God is
just plain idiotic. THat's why atheists per definition are scumbags.
Who, but a complete scumbag, would not want to know about God?

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

[Lucifer]

On Thu, 04 Jul 2019 05:23:34 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 01:24:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
><malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>It's called agnosticism. The admission that we don't, and probably can't know.
>
>Yes, it's called ignorance. The idea that we can't know about God is
>just plain idiotic. THat's why atheists per definition are scumbags.
>Who, but a complete scumbag, would not want to know about God?

With new gods popping into existence from nothing everyday it
is not possible for us to know them all.
The best thing is for us to ignore them.

[Malcolm McMahon]

On Thursday, 4 July 2019 00:53:36 UTC+1, Jahnu wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 01:24:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
> <malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >It's called agnosticism. The admission that we don't, and probably can't know.
>
> Yes, it's called ignorance. The idea that we can't know about God is
> just plain idiotic. THat's why atheists per definition are scumbags.
> Who, but a complete scumbag, would not want to know about God?
>

It's called an _admission_ of ignorance.

And it's in the face of many people who think they know, and have different, incompatible opinions.

I'm a "strong" agnostic. Not only do I not know, but I don't believe anyone else knows either.

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 03:01:42 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
<malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>I'm a "strong" agnostic. Not only do I not know, but I don't believe anyone else knows either.

Seriously, Mac. Who gives a shit what you believe?

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego --
all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior
energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting
the resources of this material, inferior nature.

All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that
is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain
that I am both the origin and the dissolution.

O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.


--Bhagavad Gita 7.1-7

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 11:10:05 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 03:01:42 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
><malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm a "strong" agnostic. Not only do I not know, but I don't believe
>>anyone else knows either.

There is no excuse to be agnostic.

>Seriously, Mac. Who gives a shit what you believe?

You are not interested in promoting a religion or a better world.
You contradict yourself and make stupid mistakes.
You are looking for reasons to hate everyone.
You are not interested in what I post because you don't care
about cows or people.

[Malcolm McMahon]

On Friday, 5 July 2019 06:40:07 UTC+1, Jahnu wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 03:01:42 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
> <malcol...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm a "strong" agnostic. Not only do I not know, but I don't believe anyone else knows either.
>
> Seriously, Mac. Who gives a shit what you believe?
>
>

You clearly do.

[Cloud Hobbit]

Jesper lied:

>Yes, it's called ignorance. The idea that we can't know about God is
just plain idiotic. THat's why atheists per definition are scumbags.
Who, but a complete scumbag, would not want to know about God?

We do know about God, all gods.
They are all the same, fictional.

Yours is particularly stupid if he can't get people to learn to clean their own shit off the street.

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 21:16:42 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>There is no excuse to be agnostic.

There is no excuse for you to be ignorant, except the fact that you
grew up in a shithole culture with no knowledge of the absolute truth.
I mean, seriously, you actually grew up to think eating snot and fried
cadavers is comletely normal.

Krishna says:

O mighty-armed Arjuna, according to the Vedanta there are five causes
for the accomplishment of all action. Now learn of these from Me. (Bg.
18.13)

The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the
many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul—these
are the five factors of action. (Bg. 18.14)

Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech
is caused by these five factors. (Bg. 18.15)

Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the
five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things
as they are. (Bg. 18.16)

One who is not motivated by false ego, whose intelligence is not
entangled, though he kills men in this world, does not kill. Nor is he
bound by his actions. (Bg. 18.17)

[Lucifer]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 08:40:02 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 21:16:42 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>There is no excuse to be agnostic.
>
>There is no excuse for you to be ignorant, except the fact that you
>grew up in a shithole culture with no knowledge of the absolute truth.

Not even then. We know all [G|g]od(s) are man made.

>I mean, seriously, you actually grew up to think eating snot and fried
>cadavers is comletely normal.

Krishna made us that way.

>Krishna says:
>
>I make things the way I choose. Jahnu has no say in what I do.

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:55:22 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>Not even then. We know all [G|g]od(s) are man made.

You wish...



Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. In other words, it is a
belief that cannot be verified. It is impossible to prove there is no
God. By definition, you cannot prove a negative. So atheism is a
totally blind belief, that cannot be verified. Who but a less
intelligent person would believe in something blindly?

On the other hand, a theist, at least theoretically, has the
possibility to have his faith in God verified. God, if He exists, can
certainly prove His own existence beyond doubt. So theists are
intellectually better situated than atheists because they believe in
something that has the possibility of verification.

Thus theists are fundamentally more intelligent than atheists.

Now, some atheist might ask, if God can verify Himself, why doesn't He
do so to me? And here is the answer that God gives in the Bhagavad
Gita. Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)

Somebody might think - this is unfair of God. But when you think about
it, it is actually not. It is rather benevolent of God. Atheism is
actually not a matter of evidence of this and proof of that. For
someone who has the eyes to see, this whole world is proof of an
intelligent, Supreme Designer. Obviously, nobody is an atheist out of
a lack of proof of God.

To be an atheist or a theist is simply a matter of choice. Atheism is
a choice you make when you don't want God in your life. It's as simple
as that. Most religions have no real good explanation for why somebody
would not want God in his life, but the Vedic version predicts this.
God is the Supreme Enjoyer, and the soul is meant for His enjoyment.
But if the soul wants to imitate God and become an independent
enjoyer, Krishna then gives the material world as the soul's field of
activity.

So all of us, whether we call ourselves Christians, atheists,
Buddhists, Muslims, liberals, democrats or whatever, are fallen souls,
who have fallen down into the material world to become enjoyers and
controllers. If we actually knew the truth - that Krishna is the only
enjoyer and controller - we wouldn't be able to live out the illusion
of being independent enjoyers and controllers. So Krishna mercifully
keeps the fallen souls in ignorance. It is out of respect for the
deluded soul's wishes, that Krishna stays away from Him. When an
atheist has a very strong conviction that there is no God, it is
Krishna Who sits in his heart and makes that conviction strong.

Krishna says:

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance,
knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known.
Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the
Vedas. (Bg. 15.15)

So the only way a fallen soul will again see God, is by asking Him for
it. As long as the basic desire is there - to not have anything to do
with God, Krishna will stay far away from such a soul, and He will
offer oceans of good reasons to not believe in Him. So when atheists
ask for evidence and proof of God, it is merely obfuscation. There is
nothing that a die-hard atheist wants less than proof of God.

Anyone who wants to know God beyond doubt will certainly do whatever
is necessary to accomplish that. And the first thing one must do to
see God is give up one's atheistic mentality and develop a genuine
desire to see God. If you wish to see God, you'll follow the method of
how to access Him.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Pritha, how by practicing yoga in full

consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in

full, free from doubt. (Bg. 7.1)

[Lucifer]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 15:39:08 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:55:22 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>Not even then. We know all [G|g]od(s) are man made.
>
>You wish...

I wish there was a good god but we don't get what we want
unless its on Ebay or Amazon.

"It is a matter of national concern as India has the most number of
people practicing open defecation in the world, around 600 million."

"Open defecation is a major cause of fatal diarrhea. Everyday about
2000 children aged less than five succumb to diarrhea and every 40
seconds a life is lost. It is depressing that all this needless
suffering is actually preventable. In densely populated countries
like India, the health impact is magnified many fold."

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond
all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to
compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive,
many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others
are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands
of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be
so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will
automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural
state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of
electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic
replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are
going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor
any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the
properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no
purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”

>Krishna says:
>
>I fucked up. I don't know any better.

[Lucifer]

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 20:55:22 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:


>Not even then. We know all [G|g]od(s) are man made.

You wish...

Krishna says:

Again I shall declare to you this supreme wisdom, the best of all
knowledge, knowing which all the sages have attained the supreme
perfection. (Bg. 14.1)

By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the
transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born
at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution. (Bg.
14.12)


The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth,
and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births
of all living beings, O son of Bharata. (Bg. 14.3)


It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are
made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the
seed-giving father. (Bg. 14.4)

Material nature consists of three modes—goodness, passion and
ignorance. When the eternal living entity comes in contact with
nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, he becomes conditioned by these modes.
(Bg. 14.5)

[Lucifer]

On Sun, 07 Jul 2019 05:40:06 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 20:55:22 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Not even then. We know all [G|g]od(s) are man made.
>
>You wish...

I wish there was a good god.

>Krishna says:
>
>I fucked up

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 07 Jul 2019 13:32:50 +1000, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>I wish there was a good god.

hahaha :) You wouldn't know good if it fell on your little pointy
head.

I have never could make sense of the idea of the Church about the
resurrection of the dead. It's obvious it's not a bunch of rotten
corpses who resurrect and follow Christ up to heaven. So which type of
body does one resurrect in? Is it the body that one dies in?

If one dies in as an infant or an old man or woman, is that the body
one will inhabit forever at resurrection? A rather scary thought. Then
I think the Vedic explanation makes more sense. One's physical body is
just one out of billions one has had in different life-forms. At
salvation or liberation one gets one's spiritual body back and returns
to Krishna on the eternal plane.

The Church tells us, that one goes to heaven and spends eternity there
with his friends and family. But that is not such an attractive idea.
I mean, who wants to spend eternity with his earthly family? What if
one's wife was a bitch or one was abused as a child? Are those the
ones you want to spend eternity with? I don't see how this is
attractive. When I look at the happy nucleus family on the cover of
the Watch Tower, I think, gee, it must be boring there.

And what's God doing in the Christian Heaven? They don't tell us. It
must be extremely boring to be God in Christianity - to sit on a cloud
surrounded by harp-playing angles; or to be a baker in the greates
bakery in the universe so He can deliver bread to everyone; or sit and
listen to people whine and moan in their prayers? Is that how it is?
Or, as the Lutherans believe - Jesus is God who became flesh to suffer
for all the sinds I do... what's so cool about that?

And what does God do in His spare-time when He is not bored by a bunch
of Angles, or when He is not hanging, suffering and bleeding, nailed
to a pole? What does God do then? The Church doesn't tell us about
these things. That's one reason I find the Vedic Version so
fascinating. Here Gods name, form, qualities and pastimes are
described in detail.

That Krishna is God, is just a secondary thing. The God-business is
carried out by His expansions like Vishnu and Narayan. Krishna Himself
is absorbed in enjoying and playing with His friends and girl-friends
in Vrindavan.

I think it was Nietsche who said that he could believe in a God who
dances. Funny enough, one name of Krishna is Nataraja - the greatest
of dancers.

And to try to love Krishna, delivers the highest form of pleasure and
enjoyment. It's a fact anyone, who practices the process, can
experience. It has nothing to do with belief. Anyone who seriously
tries to add Krishna to his life, will immediately experience how his
or her suffering will diminish and his joy will expand. It is a
demonstrable fact

Krishna says:

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything
emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My
devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. (Bg 10.8)

The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully
devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss
from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me. (Bg
10.9)

To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give
the understanding by which they can come to Me. (Bg 10.10)

To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with
the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.
(Bhagavad Gita 10.11)

[Lucifer]

On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 12:19:06 +0530, Jahnu <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Jul 2019 13:32:50 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>I wish there was a good god.
>
>hahaha :) You wouldn't know good if it fell on your little pointy
>head.

By your own admission you lack the intellect to know good
from bad. Therefore you can't say God is good.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:11:59 +1000, Lucifer went:

>blither blather


Suta Goswami says:

Glorification of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is performed in
the parampara system; that is, it is conveyed from spiritual master to
disciple. Such glorification is relished by those no longer interested
in the false, temporary glorification of this cosmic manifestation.
Descriptions of the Lord are the right medicine for the conditioned
soul undergoing repeated birth and death. Therefore, who will cease
hearing such glorification of the Lord except a butcher or one who is
killing his own self? 祐B 10.1.4

[Jahnu]

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq-n0bbhpaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B46rjU_q_cM