Out of Bounds
kjelleman
http://www.mandala.be/declination/pamela3.htm
and found the idea very interesting. One thing that I can't see
mentioned, and which I wonder about, is whether or not it would matter
if the OOB-planet is on its way further OOB or on its way back from the
extreme position. The author (Pamela Welch) thinks that it matters how
far OOB a planet is, but it seems to me that the direction would play a
part too, as the progression of the planet (or the Moon) will be
entirely different depending upon which way it is headed.
IF there is a meaning to attach to which "direction" the "OOB-ness"
has, what would you say about it?
Another thing about OOB'S that I read about but don't understand at all
(not same author, this answer is from Kt Boehrer [1] at the page
http://www.mandala.be/declination/emailKt.htm) was this:
"When a planet is OOB, we had to correct or adjust declination (f.e.
Moon 27N45 results in 19N11 planetary codeclination). It's is like a
sort of mirror point with the corresponding point on the ecliptic - in
this case 23N28 - as midpoint. 19N11 has therefore the same 'value' as
27N45. How can we defend or explain it astronomically?
Thanks, Luc We do not HAVE to defend it astronomically - it is a
physical and mathematical fact that was discovered many, many years ago
and subsequently revealed by the astronomers - as an astrologer I
worked for years applying what the astronomers know (and knew) about
the physical fact of planets whose orbits exceed the angle of the
ecliptic periodically and applying it to astrological interpretation -
this is precisely what medical doctors do with the hard science of
chemistry when they prescribe medication to cure or create a specific
physical condition. The masters of the hard sciences are brilliant but
the masters of the soft sciences are the geniuses - astronomers are
very intelligent but accurate astrologers are very wise - wisdom is
intelligence applied appropriately."
This makes absolutely no sense at all to me. On the one hand, I don't
know the basic astronomy (yet!), but still I just can't even fathom how
the "bounds limit" would work as a kind of mirror (if I even understand
the text correctly). The answer is just verbiage to me. Anyone who can
shed some light on this for me?
Any general comments on OOB is also welcomed!
/Kjell
___________________
Notes:
[1]
No copyright stated for this page, presumably Kt Boehrer (or her
estate) has the copyright to her answers, or perhaps the website where
this was posted.
JohnHalloran
corresponding zodiac positions by considering that 0 declination
corresponds to 0 Aries, and that the sun's maximum declination of 23
deg. 27 min. North corresponds to 0 Cancer, etc. To the extent that
the ecliptic latitude of planets causes them to be north or south in
declination from where they would be if their latitude were zero, their
declination to longitude equivalents will be somewhat different from
their normal zodiac longitude positions. What one ends up with is a
360-degree representation of the planets' declinations that can be
examined for aspects not readily apparent when looking just at ecliptic
longitude or just at declinations.
The question had to do with how to handle planet declinations that are
greater than the sun's maximum declination of 23 deg. 27 min. These
declinations must be converted from OOB positions to mirror positions
suitable for mapping into one of the four quadrants from 0 to 90 of
ecliptic longitude. Here is an example of how this is done for Richard
Allen Davis who murdered Polly Klass. Richard has Moon, Mercury,
Venus, and Mars all with Out-Of-Bounds (OOB) declinations, shown in
parentheses below, after the declinations actually used in the
Declination to Longitude Equivalent mapping.
Dec-L.E. for Davis_Richard Allen
Wednesday, June 02, 1954 6:34:00 PM
Murdered Polly Klass
San Francisco, California
Time Zone: 07:00 (PDT)
Longitude: 122° W 25' 06"
Latitude: 37° N 46' 30"
Placidus Houses
Tropical Zodiac
Mean Nodes
Day Chart
Source Declinations
Declinations:
Sun 22 N 14 Jup 23 N 21 Asc 17 S 47
Moo 22 N 59 (23 N 54) Sat 10 S 13 Mid 11 N 29
Mer 21 N 30 (25 N 23) Ura 22 N 17 MNN 22 S 25
Ven 22 N 21 (24 N 32) Nep 07 S 32 MSN 22 N 25
Mar 20 S 49 (26 S 04) Plu 23 N 13 PF 22 S 41
Does this example make the procedure involving Out of Bounds
declination planets clear?
Regards,
John Halloran
Halloran Software
http://www.halloran.com Windows Astrology Software
LibraLove
watch for in charts, plus converting from Longs to Lats and see where
the planet lands:
http://www.mandala.be/declination/elliptical.htm
Here Mars is seen out of bounds -- outside the ecliptic and you find
super sports heroes have OOB Mars, and really smart people often have
OOB Mercuries -- mine happens to be at 24 N as is Mr. Man's. ;)
Here is the Magi Society chart form that shows the planets above and
below the horizon in the N or S Deks.
I use these tables all the time now:
http://www.mandala.be/declination/convert1.htm
Any planet more than 23 deg, 26-28" North or South Lats is OOB.
http://www.astroscapes.com/out-of-bounds_planets.htm
The energy is highly exaggerated and one might say abnoral. Mr. Man's
brother says he "is so genius; he is almost driven himself mad -- and
thoughts bounce around his brain like ping pong balls". :)
My Mercury is OOB 24N19 and his is 25N19, so he is a full degree
smarter than I am and that is SMART! LOL
Best -- LL
LibraLove
someone says 27 Cancer that is 2Gem28 - so my node is on his Venus by
antiscia. Then there is the contra-antiscia -- opposite point as 2Sag28
which point which completes the man's T-square of Pluto, Venus and
Chiron.
My contra-antiscia makes a cosmic cross out of it. :)) So I create a
Grand Trine and a Cosmic Cross in his chart by synastry. So crummy old
squares and T-squares become Grand Trines and dynamic Cosmic Crosses.
Nice, huh?
You start to see where the real dynamics are if you really dig into the
synastry between people similar to the Demi and Ashton sleuthing here
(need to do some antiscia work also) and then the Magi did a great job
with the last Julia Robert's marriage to the cameraman, Moder.
My Venus at 7.5 Cancer is 22.5 Gemini which is an antiscia of 24Gem
31-- this explains why you see a lot of couples with signs right next
to each other. The antisicia and contra-antisica are very powerful as
well as the Deks. So people that say that synastry does not work or is
not reliable, just are not doing as thorough job as an astrologer.
http://www.mandala.be/declination/convert3.htm
You see this table only goes to 23'27" so anything further off the
ecliptic is OOB and acts abnormaly -- like the brother said about his
OOB Mercury genius. Really brilliant people are often a bit quirky --
you may have noticed. :))
Best to All -- LL
James Aronis
25° 33'
I assume Venus is OOB. How does this delineate in my chart?
LibraLove
of the energy and its effects are exagerated or extreme. What is your
view of how your Venus operates in your life?
Kt Boehrer wrote:
"There are also times in the life of people born with no natal
Out-Of-Bounds planets when planets go OOB either by progression or
transit and create considerable activity in the life. This may be
either negative or positive - each instance must be judged on its own
conditions but it is guaranteed to have an impact on the life.
We also find that natal Out-Of-Bounds planets have a profound effect on
psychological character. This subject is far too complex to discuss
here but the mention is sufficient to alert the serious astrologer to
examine those charts with OOB natal planets very carefully for
indications of psychological attitudes that are not in step with the
average psychology.
We also find OOB planets very active in accidents, serious illnesses,
hair-raising adventures, etc. In fact, introducing declination into
your calculations adds so much greater depth to your comprehension of
the chart that you will be amazed. Even when NOT OOB, the planet's
declination may reveal matters of great importance. For example, those
periods when transiting Mars rides the Ecliptic (sits right on the
ecliptic by declination) of a specific chart (your own, perhaps) are
often a warning of accidents, surgery or infection with fever."
Kt Boerhrer died last year and many have tried to get the executors of
her estate to re-release her great book now out of print is now a
collector's item:
Her book, DECLINATION: THE OTHER DIMENSION, was published in 1994 and
was the best selling new book at the AFA 1994 Convention.
Best -- LL
James Aronis
in the 2nd house. I assume by the fact that it happens to be OOB by a
good margin makes it all the more accentuated. I haven't studied
declinations enough to have sufficient understanding on their partcular
influences in a natal chart. Since I'm more of a traditionalist, I
don't even delineate the 3D aspects. Irrespective, it's difficult to
describe a planetary ruler's effects in a mere paragraph or two.
Perhaps this will help answer your question in brief: "In the wide
realm of aesthetics, I have yet to meet my equal."
James
LibraLove
Then I take that to mean that you have "extreme sensibilities" in a
Venus as "beautiful" kind of way.
LL
James Aronis
My senses (especially sight, hearing and taste) are highly refined for
aesthetic appeal.
James
kjelleman
/Kjell
LibraLove skrev:
kjelleman
I think I understand how to do it now, what I do not understand is the
justification for doing it; the underlying astronomy.
With antiscia it's all clear to me, daytime 23 days before the summer
solstice equals daytime 23 days after, and equals nighttime 23 days
before or after the winter solstice. Clear as day.
But I cannot see in what ("astronomical") sense and to what extension
going beyond a certain declination mirrors or "shadows" what's on the
other side of that declination. Or am I overcomplicating trying to
understand? I don't know!
/Kjell
JohnHalloran skrev:
kjelleman
transits" and what effect such would have? Say a natal OOB Venus at
25° N, would you expect or have you in such situations noted whether
or not a decl. transit from a planet (Venus or not) has any noticeable
effect?
I would expect the longterm and comparatively slow progressions to
have, but perhaps transits are too quick to pass to really be
noticeable? The Moon being OOB for a day or two seems like there's not
really much time for her to traverse that particular declination,
consequently not much time to have much of an effect.
/Kjell
LibraLove
Sec. 2006 progressions:
Mercury 21 Virg at 0S
Mars 0 Libra at 0N
Neptune 3 Libra at 0N
Chiron 19Virg 0N
This is about as powerful as Deks can be and there are 4 of them!
I have N. Moon 5 Libra conj Neptune 1 Libra and 0 N and Pallas 3 Can
and 0S natally.
I think those both are science related and Pallas is women's lib and
fairness issues. Neptune in my life has been intoxication (now sex with
an appropriate one partner) and music and science -- Pallas is DNA and
genetic code which I do a lot for part of my living.
The Lunar eclipse 24Pis/Virg before the Solar at 8 Aries has Vesta at 8
Cancer and 26N. That is on my Venus and his Sun/Moon point.
Mars is 24N OOB and 13 Gem in the spring LE.
So any takers on interpreting those Longs and Deks?
LOL -- LL
LibraLove
> Have you checked whether or not OOB's are sensitive to "declinatory
> transits" and what effect such would have? Say a natal OOB Venus at
> 25° N, would you expect or have you in such situations noted whether
> or not a decl. transit from a planet (Venus or not) has any noticeable
> effect?
Yes, Kjell, those transiting Deks are very powerful!
Example:
My mom died when T. Mercury opposed my Saturn in Cancer (Moon = Mother)
at 1 Capricorn and it was 25S40. I got the call from hospice she was
gone.
Unfortantely, due to the laws of this country, she was forced to
dehydrate to death (a la Terry Schiavo) -- no food and no water. Then
after 10 days the kidneys shut down and they die from kidney failure
and thus from the poisons in their blood from the dehydration. A
nightmare in my view and I finally understood why Kervorkian is
actuslly a hero to the terminally ill.
You do not want to have a terminal condition and be forced to die in
that manner. It is horrendous even with the morphine they stick up
their butt. No way to know if they are receiving enough of it unless
they are grimacing and then you know they are experiencing pain even
while semi-comatose.
They would never do this to a German shephard -- why do the terminally
ill get treated so badly? It was really, really sick what she had to
endure to leave this life and I got to watch it sadly and helpless to
help her.
The other very important Dek is 0 deg latitude or longitude and
crossing over from N to S or S to N.
My first marriage had Mercury in Libra at 0N Dek with Venus at 0
Scorpio longs, and my second marriage had Venus at 0S Dek and in Libra
and Mercury at 0 Virgo longs.
I met a guy online the other night and as soon as he gave me his data,
I knew his mother was stark raving insane. He agreed that she was very
psychotic and extremely narcissistic. He had also had a fiance that
almost destroyed him -- or tried really hard to do so.
How did I see his very sick mom? His N. Moon was 26S55. I have never
seen a Moon so OOB! It was in Capricorn opp Neptune square Uranus and
quincunx Pluto. Got that?!
IMO, the only reason he is still alive with that mother is he has a
hiDek Mars in Capricorn -- and has been a sports hero and now a
fireman.
Would I date him? No way. I explained to him that in order to be a
match -- his Moon would need to describe me, fortunately it did NOT. No
comments from the peanut gallery! LOL
Best regards -- LL
chrissyb
Perhaps this will help answer your question in brief: "In the wide
"I HAVE YET TO MEET MY EQUAL." (my caps. CB.)
James
Hi,
When reading this and checking against James' chart, why wasn't I
surprised to see, apart from the 12th house Sun and NN in Taurus, a
Venus square MEAN BML in Aries joined in T-square to Mars in Libra.
With Libra, equality issues will always play a large role in one way or
another.
BML in Aries seems to have a relevance to 'Who I physically am not,
rather than who I am within that you cannot perceive.'
Any 'abnormality' of expression of Venus ( per LL's preceding post)
would appear to come from other people's attitudes towards how James
*should* act and be, rather than how he naturally acts and feels right
within himself about. IMHO,the OOB Venus doesn't produce any more
information towards interpretation than 'normal' factors do.
But that's just me :-)
Regards,
Christine.
LibraLove
Seems you missed the point. Neither James nor I mentioned anything
about people judging James' action or being.
He has an "extremely refined aesthetic judgment" in regards to Venus
(i.e. beautiful) things and issues.
That is rare IMO, and it has nothing to do with your statement. So you
must have missed the info (detail) that the OOB Venus offered in his
chart.
Regards -- LL
chrissyb
>Seems you missed the point. Neither James nor I mentioned anything
about people judging James' action or being.
Or maybe you missed mine :-)
>He has an "extremely refined aesthetic judgment" in regards to Venus
(i.e. beautiful) things and issues.
That is rare IMO,
With, as I mentioned, a 12th house Sun and NN in Taurus? Such seems to
draw one away from tangible materialism towards appreciation of the
'intangible' aesthetic beauty as perceived through the senses.
>and it has nothing to do with your statement. So you
must have missed the info (detail) that the OOB Venus offered in his
chart.
Depends upon the perspective of chart interpretation taken regarding
what you called an 'abnormal' and 'extremeties of' Venus, I guess, and
whether one with an OOB planet recognises traits that cannot also be
explained by 'normal' chart factors.
Regards,
Christine.
Regards -- LL
LibraLove
FTIW: Genius and *extreme* sensibilites or abilities are "abnormal",
IMO -- means "not-normal", i.e. they are not common in the majority of
people. And by degrees of abnormal (not-normal) they can be "extreme"
as in the case of OOB placements.
So by virtue of his extreme aesthetic judgment, his OOB Venus proclaims
his abnormality in regards to aesthetics. :)
Your explanation:
"With, as I mentioned, a 12th house Sun and NN in Taurus? Such seems to
draw one away from tangible materialism towards appreciation of the
'intangible' aesthetic beauty as perceived through the senses. "
This placement does not in any way describe what he and I are talking
about. It would be rare for someone to pick up "extreme and abnormal"
aesthetic judgment based on the general placement you mention here.
It is far too general, IMO, and that is the problem with "standard
astrology" in my view -- not enough shades of intensity and precise
adjectives without the extra stuff like Deks, OOBs and asteroids. Add
an OOB Venus ruler of that placement and you really have something
AMAZING in his ability.
We are talking about something that is 'OUT OF BOUNDS", not your
average 12th house Sun and NN in Taurus in the 12th, which would be
better than most aesthetically but not EXTREMELY talented in that
regard, IMV.
Regards -- LL
James Aronis
When I saw this thread, the last thing I expected was an interpretation
of my BML placement, LOL. Since I don't recall anyone looking at my BML
before, any interpretation is certainly welcome.
In regards to my natal Venus reply to LL, she is totally correct. We
were discussing my aesthetic judgement. To clarify a bit, what I meant
by aesthetics is the appreciation or critique of anything regarded as
beautiful, and improvement thereof.
When others who have known me, made comments concerning any of my
aesthetic judgements in the past, they always seem to point out to my,
"incredible attention to seemingly insignificant details that when
combined, amount to a major difference," their quote. It's the same
situation whether we're discussing the visual or aural arts,
literature, drama, etc. My chart is highly mercurial, and I believe
that this only serves to enhance things.
There's a lot more that can be said than the aforementioned, such as my
sense of correct proportion, color combinations, timing and pitch in
music, choice of words in poetry, etc. that can be "quite excessive"
(other's quote), but I don't wish to hijack this thread. In any case,
it's really a moot point, because beauty is a purely subjective thing.
James
chrissyb
I feel flattered; it's a long time since I've been told I work with
'standard astrology'.
I admire your own professionalism in surrounding yourself with umpteen
charts in order to reach a conclusion.
I am not disclaiming the use of OOB planets. I am just saying that the
words you use to apply to an OOB Venus, I could similarly use to apply
to the strong 12th house Taurus influence, strengthened in the chart in
question by its ruler Venus square MEAN BML.
It has been said before that there are a number of interpretative ways
to reach the same theme, depending upon the direction one chooses to
follow.
Regards,
Christine.
LibraLove
But you didn't use the words I used to describe his attributes -- not
even close. In fact, when in a positive re-inforcement mode one could
say what you said about anyone slightly artistic, IMO.
You never said that his approach was "extreme or abnormal or highly
unusual", so from what you wrote, seems like he's a normal, but a bit
more aesthetical than an average person.
>From his description and those of his friends, he is over-the-top and
that is what an OOB Venus describes not the mild version you put forth.
The more data -- the more reliable the results, IMO -- from my days in
science. :) LL
chrissyb
My thoughts regarding a connection to BML arose simply from your use
of the phrase that I emphasised in a previous post and it's not my
intention to change the line subject of this thread:-). Suffice to say
there also appears to be a natural ' higher rather than earthy quality'
(for want of a better phrase) in BML that does not manifest in form
except through the planet(s) to which it is linked.
In your reply above, you use terms that I would connect to a strong
Virgo element.Your chart indicates that the 12th natal Sun is also
strongly bound to that sign.
With the use of words such as exaggeration, I would tend to look
towards Jupiter; for abnormal and extreme I would look towards Uranus,
for aesthetic qualities Neptune and/or 12th house influence would
spring to mind, for further information regarding how such qualities
manifest.
Your nodal axis also takes in the difference between material and
emotional values.
As I said earlier I think it has much to do with the perspective of
perception one uses in astrological interpretation. I have a strong
Virgo element myself, so am inclined to be rather nit-picky in
searching the forest and the presence of its trees:-). Whether that's
my own 12th house BML in Virgo and its aspects to Venus (that also
provides the love of natural beauty), who can say :-)
I stress that I am no way disclaiming OOB's and LL's use, accuracy, and
explanation of their qualities. Would an unaspected planet show similar
qualities, LL ?
Regards,
Christine.
LibraLove
qualities, LL ?
Sorry, Christine. I've not spent any time looking at unaspected planets
across many friends, clients and aquaintances charts in regards to
their talents and/or activities.
Regards -- LL
kjelleman
> I stress that I am no way disclaiming OOB's and LL's use, accuracy, and
> explanation of their qualities. Would an unaspected planet show similar
> qualities, LL ?
I've come across pages on the Internet talking about LAP (Least
Aspected Planet), which say that, shortly, the planet with the least
aspects is less constrained (for better or worse) than the more
aspected planets. (Sounds a bit like the effect that out of
bounds-planets have, doesn't it?) This then makes the planet pivotal in
interpreting the chart.
An example of such a page: http://www.dominantstar.com/1lap.htm
I do not know how widespread this idea is, how well researched it is
etc, but the idea itself seems plausible enough to me. Aspects do
somehow denote what kind of a relation two planets have, and it stands
to reason that a planet not having so many relations would have the
freedom of the loner to do pretty much what it pleases in the chart.
/Kjell
kjelleman
I have an OOB Venus, and aesthetics is a great interest of mine. Even
though I don't have deep knowledge in the arts I am very interested in
the subject as such.
My Venus is on the Ascendant (XII house) and I often get to hear that I
live in the most exquisite and lovely area, and that has been true for
I think all my homes.
Also the majority of women in my life is in one way or another
connected to the arts, whether as artists, promoters or dealers. At the
very least they have an extremely refined taste. Hmmmm... obviously I
seem to think myself capable of making that judgement! :-)
/Kjell
James Aronis wrote:
---
kjelleman
> So any takers on interpreting those Longs and Deks?
Oh, I'm but a fumbling newbie, especially in the OOB-area, but I hope
you'll keep us posted so that we may learn from you! :-)
/Kjell
kjelleman
possible confusion:
"With antiscia it's all clear to me, [for instance,] daytime 23 days
before [...]"
/Kjell
Ed Falis
> I do not know how widespread this idea is, how well researched it is
> etc, but the idea itself seems plausible enough to me. Aspects do
> somehow denote what kind of a relation two planets have, and it stands
> to reason that a planet not having so many relations would have the
> freedom of the loner to do pretty much what it pleases in the chart.
But the least aspected planet theory has to confine itself to some small
number of aspects (which contradicts harmonics theory), so generally you
have to draw the line somewhere. I believe it's often the set of
Ptolemaic aspects, which is pretty limiting for general interpretation.
The "theory" strikes me as a bit contrived, much like kt's (god bless her)
approach of reflecting OOB declinations around the solstice points when
mapping declinations of planets onto a zodiac-like circle. Much as I
counted her a great friend, I see no sound basis for this approach.
- Ed
JohnHalloran
to both the ecliptic and the equator - this is Kt Boehrer's copyrighted
invention, which she authorized me to program into AstrolDeluxe
ReportWriter and which I presented in finished form to her in the last
year of her life.
I have uploaded three image files that use the chart of attorney Melvin
Belli, with extreme Mars Out-of-Bounds (OOB) declination at 28S54, as
an example. Here is his birth data:
Melvin Belli
Monday, July 29, 1907 8:00:00 AM
Attorney; Author
Source: Penfield/AA
Sonora, California
Time Zone: 08:00 (PST)
Longitude: 120° W 22' 52"
Latitude: 37° N 59' 03"
First is his normal chart, at:
http://www.halloran.com/bellicht.gif
Then is his Declination to Longitude Equivalent chart, at:
http://www.halloran.com/bellidle.gif
Then is his Boehrer Graphic Declination Chart, at:
http://www.halloran.com/belligrf.gif
What you can see is that the Longitude Equivalents (L.E.s) result from
drawing horizontal lines along the equatorial declination from the
planet declination point and seeing where the line intersects the
eye-shaped ecliptic. There are two intersection points and thus two
L.E.s, the normal one in the same longitudinal quadrant as in the
normal chart, and the antiscia L.E. in the other quadrant.
What Kt realized is that one can fold over the declinations that are
greater than the sun's maximum declination to get the 'active point'
that would map in a normal way to the ecliptic. The result of doing
this for Melvin Belli's chart is that the Declination L.E. for his Mars
at 8 Capricorn is, because of its extreme OOB declination of 29S,
actually at 9 Aquarius. This is the point on the ecliptic that
corresponds to his 29S declination Mars. Kt Boehrer became convinced
of this technique's validity during the 20 years that she tested it
between discovering it in the 1970's and publishing her book in 1994.
kjelleman
examples will clarify things for me.
/Kjell
kjelleman
somewhere, and I actually thought myself about whether that would be
the Ptolemaic aspects or not. Yet there's something in it that speaks
to me. I think the theory seems analogically sound, it describes what I
would have guessed at had anyone asked me to present a hypothesis about
the meaning of such planets. I also don't think the obstacles are
insurmountable.
For instance, considering the theory in the light of harmonics one
could accord handicaps to the aspects according to where in the numeric
hierarchy they are and so get a value of what would be the least
aspected planet. The non-complex Ptolemaic (to which I'd like to add
the 72-degree aspect) would get lower values than semi-noviles and
stuff like that. Squares and sextiles I'd place somewhere inbetween.
I think a reasonable way to arrive at harmonic values could be figured
out. At any rate, I guess the LAP theory wouldn't work if there are
several planets competing for the position as least aspected. Having
more than one planet "freewheeling" I think would make for quite
another picture. Also, "least aspected" would have to mean "not having
that much aspects". If the least aspected planet still has a bunch of
trines and squares, it's hard to apply the analogy of it being not
constrained by aspects to the others.
However, that said I must say that I don't yet have enough experience
from actual chart reading and I guess my final conclusion must await
such experience.
/Kjell
Ed Falis
> However, that said I must say that I don't yet have enough experience
> from actual chart reading and I guess my final conclusion must await
> such experience.
Seems a very reasonable approach.
JohnHalloran
(OOB) declination Mars, a quote from San Francisco Chronicle columnist
Herb Caen is instructive:
"He loved it when I called him Mellifluous Belli, a tribute to his
melodious voice that snake-charmed so many juries. He was not so fond
of Bellicose, which I coined after experiencing his awesome temper."
Regards,
John Halloran
--
LibraLove
Neat story! Yes, that OOB can be a sports hero or an obnoxious, but
talented (depending on the sign and placement) blow-hard with a
volatile temper, I would imagine. Good example!
Best -- LL
Wollmann, Edmond H.
> Hmnn... you stumbled onto one of my this past year's favorite things to
> watch for in charts, plus converting from Longs to Lats and see where
> the planet lands:
> http://www.mandala.be/declination/elliptical.htm
> Here Mars is seen out of bounds -- outside the ecliptic and you find
> super sports heroes have OOB Mars, and really smart people often have
> OOB Mercuries -- mine happens to be at 24 N as is Mr. Man's. ;)
Are they in the Gauquelin sector? This makes for a mental athelete.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H134365FB
http://cura.free.fr/gauq/11gdcura.html#**
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
(c) 2005 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Academic http://astroconsulting.com/FAQs/ancient.htm
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
LibraLove
Gemini which is my Sun (6Can) conj Venus (7Can) antisica. His brother
says his genius is "off the charts" and has driven him somewhat mad. He
is fasinating to listen to and talk with, IMO, but we both have OOB
Mercuries and my Jupiter is very tight sextile to his Mercury, so... I
am very receptive and supportive of anything he wants to talk about.
Nothing sexier than a brilliant man, IMO.
I guess you are pretty amazing yourself with Mercury OOB// Mars OOB.
Are you a super-sports hero? We know from your posts you are a mental
athlete. I think I read where you jog a lot. How are the knees holding
up -- you're a Cappy right?
The OOB Mercury man, Mars is normal except for /-/ Juno and Chiron. ;)
If you call that "normal". LOL
My Mercury is just a puny 24N19 OOB at 3 Cancer -- antiscia 26 Gem. And
people wonder why Cancers and Gemini's hook-up. LOL
I do not think any of ours are in a Gaugelin sector (near angles) --
his is deep in the 8th and mine in the 11th which carries my Jupiter at
23 Leo contra-antiscia (23 Aqua) to his Neptune at 6 Scorpio.
(Scorp-Aqua antiscias) like Demi and Ashton.
The fireman who wanted to take me out had a Moon at 26S55 and Mars at
24S47 = super sports fireman type with an insane mother. :)) I refused
to meet him, he got his mother's genes from the 10 minute phone
conversation we had.
Working with Deks and antisicia is FUN, Ed! Doncha think?
Best regards -- LL
LibraLove
One more thing... I presently have Progressed Mercury, Mars, Neptune
and Chiron at 0 Deks -- any ideas about 0 declination positions?
My Prog. MC conjunct my Sun at 6 Cancer is 23N19 and that is my
Sun//Mercury//Venus//Pluto.
Best -- LL
James Aronis
> Yes, Ed, he's an mental athlete OK! LOL His is 25N19 OOB and 24.5
> Gemini which is my Sun (6Can) conj Venus (7Can) antisica. His brother
> says his genius is "off the charts" and has driven him somewhat mad. He
> is fasinating to listen to and talk with,
What areas of knowledge does he specialize in? What is he mentally
proficient at?
> IMO, but we both have OOB
> Mercuries and my Jupiter is very tight sextile to his Mercury, so... I
> am very receptive and supportive of anything he wants to talk about.
> Nothing sexier than a brilliant man, IMO.
Funny, that's what I always said about women.
> I guess you are pretty amazing yourself with Mercury OOB// Mars OOB.
> Are you a super-sports hero? We know from your posts you are a mental
> athlete. I think I read where you jog a lot. How are the knees holding
> up -- you're a Cappy right?
>
> The OOB Mercury man, Mars is normal except for /-/ Juno and Chiron. ;)
> If you call that "normal". LOL
>
> My Mercury is just a puny 24N19 OOB at 3 Cancer -- antiscia 26 Gem. And
> people wonder why Cancers and Gemini's hook-up. LOL
>
> I do not think any of ours are in a Gaugelin sector (near angles) --
> his is deep in the 8th and mine in the 11th which carries my Jupiter at
> 23 Leo contra-antiscia (23 Aqua) to his Neptune at 6 Scorpio.
> (Scorp-Aqua antiscias) like Demi and Ashton.
Precisely what regions of a chart do the Gaugelin sectors govern?
> The fireman who wanted to take me out had a Moon at 26S55 and Mars at
> 24S47 = super sports fireman type with an insane mother. :)) I refused
> to meet him, he got his mother's genes from the 10 minute phone
> conversation we had.
>
> Working with Deks and antisicia is FUN, Ed! Doncha think?
I've noticed an increase in posts mentioning antiscia charts lately.
Although, I've heard about them, I'm not exactly certain what they are
or why they are important?
James
LibraLove
> LibraLove wrote:
> > Yes, Ed, he's an mental athlete OK! LOL His is 25N19 OOB and 24.5
> > Gemini which is my Sun (6Can) conj Venus (7Can) antisica. His brother
> > says his genius is "off the charts" and has driven him somewhat mad. He
> > is fasinating to listen to and talk with,
>
> What areas of knowledge does he specialize in? What is he mentally
> proficient at?
Hi James!
He was a jazz musician early on (saxophone) and still loves jazz turned
accountant (Bus. Adm.) and now lawyer (LB), I think those are his
correct determinations. He is just very quick witted and I would
imagine the IQ is off the charts and his brother agrees. But in some
ways, he has lead a somewhat limited as far as experience by virtue of
his civil service job and his choices of women friends.
Not a lot of intellectual stimulation -- if I may be so... uh..
judgmental toward his choices in other women in 20 years. LOL
>
> > IMO, but we both have OOB
> > Mercuries and my Jupiter is very tight sextile to his Mercury, so... I
> > am very receptive and supportive of anything he wants to talk about.
> > Nothing sexier than a brilliant man, IMO.
>
> Funny, that's what I always said about women.
Yes, James, and humor is great also. Someone who makes me laugh.
This man hates it when I laugh. "Stop laughing", but then that is what
his parent(s) said to him to put him down as well as holding a hand up
like a crossing guard policeman to "Stop" talking or explaining
something when I am trying to express something -- again his
interjected parent(s) acting out. So I just stop talking, but it does
not make me angry as it would some women, only later when I remember
the moment, I feel sad for him.
>
> > I guess you are pretty amazing yourself with Mercury OOB// Mars OOB.
> > Are you a super-sports hero? We know from your posts you are a mental
> > athlete. I think I read where you jog a lot. How are the knees holding
> > up -- you're a Cappy right?
> >
> > The OOB Mercury man, Mars is normal except for /-/ Juno and Chiron. ;)
> > If you call that "normal". LOL
> >
> > My Mercury is just a puny 24N19 OOB at 3 Cancer -- antiscia 26 Gem. And
> > people wonder why Cancers and Gemini's hook-up. LOL
> >
> > I do not think any of ours are in a Gaugelin sector (near angles) --
> > his is deep in the 8th and mine in the 11th which carries my Jupiter at
> > 23 Leo contra-antiscia (23 Aqua) to his Neptune at 6 Scorpio.
> > (Scorp-Aqua antiscias) like Demi and Ashton.
>
> Precisely what regions of a chart do the Gaugelin sectors govern?
Since Ed has not responded in this regard here and may not. Jump right
in, Ed!
The planetary postions are generally are right before the angle like a
portion of the 9th house and a sliver of the the 10th near the MC. But
unlike what most people think, it is the planet(s) in the 9th coming
toward the 10th, as well as the 6th, 12th and 3rd house planets that
have the power.
Mr. Man has Moon in Leo right inside the 9th house side of the MC, so a
very powerful position.
I suspect that the reason for that is that the natal planets in those
cadent houses progress from birth to the angular house where the person
achieves great fame, power or accomplishment at the progressed point in
time.
>
> > The fireman who wanted to take me out had a Moon at 26S55 and Mars at
> > 24S47 = super sports fireman type with an insane mother. :)) I refused
> > to meet him, he got his mother's genes from the 10 minute phone
> > conversation we had.
> >
> > Working with Deks and antisicia is FUN, Ed! Doncha think?
>
> I've noticed an increase in posts mentioning antiscia charts lately.
> Although, I've heard about them, I'm not exactly certain what they are
> or why they are important?
They are a mirror of the planet across the ecliptic.
Try these links to understand:
http://www.panplanet.com/library/declinations.htm
Here are the tables so you can convert and see the antiscia:
http://www.mandala.be/declination/convert1.htm
Here is an example looking at this table:
http://www.mandala.be/declination/convert3.htm
My Sun is 6 Cancer and it is also 23N17, - if you look at this table
you will see the antiscia point is 23 Gemini 33, so lets say your Venus
(or Mercury for Mr. Man) is at 23-24 Gemini or at 23-24N or S
declination then we have a powerful parallel // or contraparallel /-/.
His Mercury is OOB, so it is 25N17, so it is OOB for this table for
"normal" declinations. My Mercury is OOB at 3 Cancer, but it is 24N17
declination, so OOB also for this table.
The contra-antiscia is on the other side of the chart -- or 23 Sag
where Pluto is right now... so... LOL
A parallel or contraparalel in declinations is as good or better than
as any planetary conjunction -- trust me, and antiscia longitudes are
part of that configuration.
Best -- LL
>
> James