T-square in composite
Andrew Kern
I was looking at the synastry comparison chart and the composite chart of me
and mygirlfriend. In the comparison chart, we have [Sun sextile Moon] +
[Moon Trine Sun] to each other, in addition it resulted in [Sun square Moon]
in the composite chart. I was wondering how to interpret this ambiguity that
two soft aspects ended up in a hard aspect.
In addition, The composite sun (conjunt ascendant) is opposite to Mercury
(conjunct descendant) thus forming a T-square pointing to the moon. What
significance will this T-square give?
Many Thanks
Andrew
SeaGtGruff
> Hi all,
>
> I was looking at the synastry comparison chart and the composite chart of me
> and mygirlfriend. In the comparison chart, we have [Sun sextile Moon] +
> [Moon Trine Sun] to each other, in addition it resulted in [Sun square Moon]
> in the composite chart. I was wondering how to interpret this ambiguity that
> two soft aspects ended up in a hard aspect.
This is a mathematical consequence of the synastry aspects, so I'm not sure if
I'd worry about it much. Some astrologers put great stock in the composite
chart, but I think it plays "second fiddle" to the synastry. And if you're
going to study a composite chart, I think it's essential to have an
understanding of how the positions and aspects of the two natal charts, as well
as the synastry between them, can combine to create positions and aspects in
the composite chart.
You probably already understand how the sign positions combine to create the
composite chart. (In this discussion I'll use "A" for the first natal chart,
"B" for the second natal chart, and "C" for the composite chart.) For example,
if Sun A is in Aries, and Sun B is in Gemini, then Sun C will be in Taurus--
because Taurus is halfway between Aries and Gemini-- right? Well, the same
sort of thing is usually true with the house positions, although the sizes of
the houses can be a factor, as well as whether the closest midpoint would fall
in that house or the opposite house of the composite chart. For example, if
Sun A is in the 1st House, and Sun B is in the 3rd House, then Sun C will very
likely (but not always) be in the 2nd House-- because the 2nd House is halfway
between the 1st House and the 3rd House.
With aspects, a similar effect occurs. (Keep in mind that this is a
mathematical result of the way composite charts are calculated.) For example,
if Sun A and Moon A are conjunct, and Sun B and Moon B are opposite, then Sun C
and Moon C will be square-- because the square is halfway between the
conjunction and the opposition.
With the other aspects (trine, square, sextile, etc.), you have to consider the
phases, because they will make a difference. For example, if Sun A is in a
waxing square with Moon A, and Sun B is in a waxing square with Moon B, then
Sun C will be in a waxing square with Moon C. But if Sun A is in a waxing
square with Moon A, and Sun B is in a waning square with Moon B, then Sun C
will either be conjunct or opposite Moon C-- because these aspects are halfway
between the waxing square and the waning square.
These effects work with the synastry charts, too. For example, if Sun A is in
the 7th House of chart B, and Sun B is in the 7th House of chart A, which house
of chart C (the composite chart) do you think Sun C will be in? If you said
"probably the 7th House," you answered correctly! :-)
In the case you cited, Sun A is sextile Moon B, and Moon A is trine Sun B. I
can tell that either both aspects are waning, or both are waxing, because Sun C
is square Moon C-- the square being halfway between the sextile and the trine.
If one aspect had been waxing and the other waning, then Sun C would have ended
up being either semisextile or quincunx Moon C-- because these two aspects are
halfway between a waxing sextile and a waning trine, or halfway between a
waning sextile and a waxing trine.
I don't know if you've been able to follow everything I've said, but the gist
of it is that Sun C being square Moon C is a mathematical consequence of the
sextile and trine in the synastry charts. And in my opinion, you can't
adequately interpret the composite square without taking the two synastry
aspects into account. After all, consider that the following scenarios could
result in Sun C square Moon C:
(1) Sun A conjunct Moon B, Moon A opposite Sun B
(2) Sun A semisextile Moon B, Moon A quincunx Sun B
(3) Sun A decile Moon B, Moon A biquintile Sun B
(4) Sun A semisquare Moon B, Moon A sesquisquare Sun B
(5) Sun A sextile Moon B, Moon A trine Sun B
(6) Sun A quintile Moon B, Moon A tredecile Sun B
(7) Sun A square Moon B, Moon A square Sun B
To say that Sun C square Moon C would mean the same things in all of these
scenarios is, in my opinion, rather simplistic. Surely the synastry aspects
have some input into the way the composite aspect will tend to manifest? For
example, wouldn't you expect the people in scenarios 3, 5, and 6 to have an
easier time with the composite square than the people in scenarios 1, 2, 4, and
7? Still, there ought to be certain basic similarities in all seven scenarios,
such that we can give a generalized delineation of the Sun square the Moon in
the composite chart.
To put this another way, consider a sign placement in a natal chart, such as
the Sun in Aries. Suppose you have a dozen natal charts in front of you, all
with the Sun in Aries. Can you interpret that sign placement the same way in
all twelve charts? Well, to a certain extent you can, but the delineation
would either have to be rather vague and generalized, or else it would have to
try to describe as many distinct manifestations as possible, because that's the
only way the very same delineation could ever fit all twelve charts at once.
On the other hand, if the delineations of the Sun in Aries were tailored or
customized for each individual chart-- taking the whole charts into account--
you would end up with twelve unique delineations of the same sign placement,
but they would probably have some similarities, as well.
Likewise, when you interpret an aspect in a composite chart, you not only have
to take the rest of the composite chart into consideration, you also have to
take the separate charts and the synastry between them into consideration, as
well.
So, how do you interpret the Sun square the Moon in the composite chart? Well,
let's suppose that the square aspect generally indicates "stress." In the
composite chart, this square might simply indicate that the Sun-Moon
relationship is *stressed*, or emphasized in some way. In other words, perhaps
it's a "critical" feature of the relationship? To see whether this is a "good
thing" or a "bad thing," you could look back at the original charts and the
synastry. You then notice that Sun A is sextile Moon B, and Moon A is trine
Sun B, so perhaps this is more of a "good thing" than a "bad thing"?
However, you would also want to look at the Sun-Moon aspects in the separate
natal charts. For example, Sun A might be square Moon A, and Sun B might be
square Moon B, in which case the composite square would be a reflection of the
two natal squares.
> In addition, The composite sun (conjunt ascendant) is opposite to Mercury
> (conjunct descendant) thus forming a T-square pointing to the moon. What
> significance will this T-square give?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Andrew
I'm hesitant to give any interpretations without looking at all three charts,
but from a very general standpoint, it seems like there might be some problems
or differences with regard to how the two of you feel about and think about the
relationship. These might manifest as a need to be more communicative and
objective about your ideas of what the relationship is "supposed" to be and
where it should be headed, as well as a need to avoid becoming too emotional
when discussing the relationship.
Personally, I'm inclined to say that the composite Sun and composite Mercury
should be kept close, so that if they end up being opposed (as in this case),
then you should take the opposite midpoint for one of them (so they would, in
this case, end up being conjunct). However, my own ideas about the way
composite charts "should" be calculated are a bit complex, because I think that
phases should be taken into account when deciding which midpoints to use. My
ideas are not in complete agreement with the way composite charts are usually
calculated.
Michael Rideout
Andrew Kern
but I was wondering about the chart interpretation. Your response was quite
helpful to me. To elucidate the points, I enclosed the chart information:
Apr 30 1979 3:06pm ST -8:00 121:30E 25:02N
Oct 20 1980 9:36pm ST -8:00 103:50E 01:18N
Thanks again
Andrew
"SeaGtGruff" <seagt...@aol.com> Wrote in
:20020225000141...@mb-mp.aol.com...
> Andrew Kern (nos...@spamfree.com) wrote:
>
>> (snip)
> > In addition, The composite sun (conjunt ascendant) is opposite to
Mercury
> > (conjunct descendant) thus forming a T-square pointing to the moon. What
> > significance will this T-square give?
> >
> > Many Thanks
> >
> > Andrew
> Michael Rideout
SeaGtGruff
> Michael, Thanks for your help. I realised that the property of these
> charts but I was wondering about the chart interpretation. Your
> response was quite helpful to me. To elucidate the points, I enclosed
> the chart information:
>
> Apr 30 1979 3:06pm ST -8:00 121:30E 25:02N
Is that Taipei?
> Oct 20 1980 9:36pm ST -8:00 103:50E 01:18N
Is that Singapore?
> Thanks again
>
> Andrew
Thank you for posting the data.
The April chart has an aspect configuration involving the Sun, Moon, Chiron,
Midheaven, Ascendant, Vertex, and Equatorial Ascendant (although some
astrologers don't allow points-- chart angles, nodes, parts, etc.-- as part of
aspect configurations). I don't know what to call this configuration, but it's
always reminded me of the little cardboard boxes that are used with Chinese
take-out food, because it has the same general shape. You could also say it
looks like a flower pot. The bottom of the box is a semisquare, the top of the
box is a sesquisquare, and the two sides of the box are squares.
The October chart has the same type of configuration, involving the Sun, Moon,
Pluto(?), Midheaven (?), Ascendant, Equatorial Ascendant, and Part of Fortune.
The composite chart (as calculated by the standard method) also has the same
type of configuration, involving the Sun, Moon, Saturn, Neptune, Midheaven,
Ascendant, Equatorial Ascendant, and Part of Fortune. It isn't surprising to
see the Sun, Moon, Midheaven, and Ascendant involved, given their involvement
in both natal charts.
Both natal charts show a lot of red aspect lines (oppositions, squares,
semisquares, and sesquisquares), so it seems very natural to me that the
composite chart would also show a lot of red aspect lines. These reflect the
fact that both of you, as separate individuals, have personal issues or
stresses or conflicts to resolve; and as a couple (friends, lovers, or
whatever) you therefore also have issues to resolve. This is not necessarily a
"bad" thing, because I'm inclined to think that these issues helped draw the
two of you together, either because you felt like you have a lot in common, or
so the two of you can work out your problems together. The composite chart
shows the two of you as a couple, so the stress or conflict aspects don't
necessarily mean that you'll have problems relating with each other, but
instead show the kinds of things that will be significant to you as a couple.
If I take out the aspects involving the points, the number of red aspect lines
decreases quite a bit in the two natal charts, but there are still a lot of red
lines in the composite. The synastry, on the other hand, shows remarkably few
red aspect lines of a "solid" nature (i.e., most of them are "dashed," which
means they have wide orbs). To me, this suggests that you tend to get along
with each other very well, and are probably "good" for each other, regardless
of how many problems you face individually or as a couple.
By the way, the April chart (yours?) has several 5th- and 10th-Harmonic
aspects, which form a 10th-Harmonic configuration:
Moon quintile Mercury
Moon decile Jupiter
Moon quintile Saturn
Moon biquintile Uranus
Mercury tredecile Jupiter
Mercury biquintile Saturn
Mercury biquintile Uranus
Venus tredecile Neptune
Jupiter decile Saturn
Jupiter tredecile Uranus
Saturn quintile Uranus
Moon = Mercury/Saturn
Mercury = Saturn/Uranus
Jupiter = Moon/Saturn = Mercury/Uranus
Saturn = Moon/Uranus
Uranus = Moon/Mercury
The Venus-Neptune tredecile isn't part of the harmonic configuration, but it
does tie in with the other tredeciles as far as common midpoint axes are
concerned:
Mercury/Venus = Jupiter/Neptune
Venus/Jupiter = Uranus/Neptune
I'm almost hesitant to mention the configuration, because I suspect that now
you'll want to ask what it means, and I'm not skilled or experienced enough at
interpreting those types of aspects to give you any decent interpretations.
However, it would appear to indicate a great potential for creatively shaping
or manipulating the circumstances of your life (if the April chart is yours).
And it's focused on Jupiter in the 11th House, so it seems as though gaining
the helpful support of friends, or perhaps being involved with groups and
organizations, would be a key to manifesting the potentials of this harmonic
configuration.
Getting back to the issue of composite charts, I had mentioned that I have
unusual ideas about how to calculate them. In particular, I've been toying
with the idea that a composite chart should take the midpoints of the phasal
relationships between the planets, although it isn't as simple as that, because
the number of cycles might also be a factor. In essence, I'm suggesting a
cross between a standard composite chart and a "time-space midpoint" chart.
When I calculate the composite of the two natal charts this way, I get the
following composite positions:
Plu Lib 19:35:08
Nep Sag 20:20:20
Ura Sco 21:46:16
Chi Tau 13:03:22
Sat Vir 20:21:06
Jup Leo 29:45:41
Mar Leo 11:56:55
Sun Aqu 3:20:12
Ven Sag 28:24:05
Mer Aqu 1:39:48
Moo Tau 3:16:33
Nod Vir 1:48:18
As you can see, it's the same as the standard composite chart as far as the
outer planets are concerned, but the positions of the composite Mars, Sun,
Venus, Mercury, and Moon can be opposite from the standard results. And the
results for the outer planets could be different if there is a great deal of
time elapsed between the two natal charts-- much longer than just a few years.
I'm not sure about the house cusps doing it this way, because the time-space
midpoint chart suggests that the "phasal composite chart" (for lack of a better
term) should have 2 Aquarius on the Ascendant, but then the midpoints of the
house positions would be reversed. For example, if both charts have the Moon
at the Midheaven, then should the composite chart also have the Moon at the
Midheaven? Or if the two charts had been just one day apart (to keep the
example simple), such that the Moon had made one full circle through the
houses, then should the composite chart have the Moon at the Imum Coeli (i.e.,
half of that one full circle)?
Anyway, this alternative method of mine is very much experimental, and I
suspect that most astrologers who use composite charts would think me daft for
suggesting it! :-)
But we should also keep in mind that the composite chart is constructed of
midpoints, and there are *two* midpoints-- the near one and the far one-- so
both may be just as valid. For that matter, there is actually a great circle
of midpoints between two planets, made up of all points which are equidistant
from the two planets, so we could even get into a discussion of how the
midpoints are calculated (i.e., in longitude? in declination? on the great
circle between the two planets? etc.).
Michael Rideout
Andrew Kern
"SeaGtGruff" <seagt...@aol.com> Wrote in:
20020302131824...@mb-ft.aol.com...
> Andrew Kern (nos...@spamfree.com) wrote:
>
> > Apr 30 1979 3:06pm ST -8:00 121:30E 25:02N
>
> Is that Taipei?
Yes :)
> > Oct 20 1980 9:36pm ST -8:00 103:50E 01:18N
>
> Is that Singapore?
Yes again :)
> By the way, the April chart (yours?) has several 5th- and 10th-Harmonic
> aspects, which form a 10th-Harmonic configuration:
>
> Moon quintile Mercury
> Moon decile Jupiter
> Moon quintile Saturn
> Moon biquintile Uranus
> Mercury tredecile Jupiter
> Mercury biquintile Saturn
> Mercury biquintile Uranus
> Venus tredecile Neptune
> Jupiter decile Saturn
> Jupiter tredecile Uranus
> Saturn quintile Uranus
>
> The Venus-Neptune tredecile isn't part of the harmonic configuration, but
it
> does tie in with the other tredeciles as far as common midpoint axes are
> concerned:
>
> Mercury/Venus = Jupiter/Neptune
> Venus/Jupiter = Uranus/Neptune
>
> I'm almost hesitant to mention the configuration, because I suspect that
now
> you'll want to ask what it means, and I'm not skilled or experienced
enough at
> interpreting those types of aspects to give you any decent
interpretations.
> However, it would appear to indicate a great potential for creatively
shaping
> or manipulating the circumstances of your life (if the April chart is
yours).
Yes :)
I have especially taken notice on my 5-th harmonic chart, with Saturn, Moon,
Mercury, and Uranus are involved in the four points. The point in 01Aqu I
call it a "sensitive point" because it forms a grand quintile whenever an
object
stands on that point. Therefor I keep monitoring any transits and other
comparisons
with other friends. I started studying astrology since late 1999. Because I
had no access
to good astrological books, I had to study it retrospectively based on my
life experience.
I discovered the following:
Uranus transit over 01Aqu: (1996)
- Making a big progess in studying and preparation for University
Entrance Exams
Jupiter transit over 01Aqu: (1997)
- Attended a Science Camp that had greatly influenced my life.
- Interestingly, I met a good friend to whom i felt extremely close. She
also had
01Aqu as a "sensitive point", where it completes a grand trine (natal
Sun, natal Jupiter,
and transit Jupiter) on her chart.
Neptune transit over 01Aqu: (1998-1999)
- First retrograde visit: Also felt uncertainty about future direction,
mood unstable
- Last antegrade visit: Being accepted into medical school but felt
uncertainty about
future, however vision of future are formulated at that time.
Mars transit over 01Aqu: (2001)
- Started a big research project
Also, January and February had been my most productive area during a year
for many years.
Perhaps it is coinciding with the Sun/Mercury/Venus "clump" transit?
In addition, I have met a female friend who I also felt close with. When I
casted her chart, she had
her Sun/Moon/Venus clump around that area (i.e. born in early January)
> But we should also keep in mind that the composite chart is constructed of
> midpoints, and there are *two* midpoints-- the near one and the far one--
so
> both may be just as valid.
That is the other thing puzzling me. For composite conjunctions and
oppositions, shouldn't they be
having the same interpretation because of this fact? And are signs important
in composite charts?
Andrew