Gil Jesus: Oswald used the front stairs

[Ralph Cinque]

http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus-has-made.html

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

On Wednesday, June 10, 2015 at 5:10:11 AM UTC+2, Ralph Cinque wrote:
> http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus-has-made.html

Is Gil going to be the new Chairman of the OIC, Raff? You're in fine
Company, Jesus. Two thieves on each side of you.

[Ralph Cinque]

This inquiry has progressed, as follows:

http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus-has-made.html

http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/this-diagram-of-2nd-floor-demonstrates.html

http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/two-big-things-larry.html

[tom...@cox.net]

Ralph Cinque <buda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus
> -has-made.html
===========================================================================
==== BAKER GAVE FOUR (4) DIFFERENT STORIES ABOUT SEEING OSWALD IN THE 2ND
FLOOR LUNCHROOM SEE>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
PS;
BUEL FRAZIER SAID HE SAW OALD COMING FROM TTHE REAR OF THE BULDING ON HSTON
STREET ! ! ! ! ! !
===========================================================================
=====

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

[Sandy McCroskey]

Ha ha. Good one!

[donald willis]

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 8:10:11 PM UTC-7, Ralph Cinque wrote:
> http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus-has-made.html

No, the Hosty/Bookhour report does NOT support the blog statement that
Oswald went up and ran into Baker upstairs. "Oswald claimed to be on the
first floor when JFK passed the building" (WR p613). They say that O
claimed to have gone to lunch "at approx. noon", but went up to the 2nd
floor to get a Coke. Nothing about running into a cop! Why would O get a
Coke at 12:30 to go with his lunch which started about noon anyway?

Even confirmed CTers seem cowed by all the testimony which went into
fabricating the 2nd-floor Baker/Truly/Oswald encounter. So much detail!
So much "corroboration"! All to squelch the apparent fact that the
encounter happened on the 1st floor, thus elminating O as a possibility as
s 6th-floor shooter....

dcw

[Ralph Cinque]

There is no doubt that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room and was
encountered there by Truly and Baker. First, he said he was, and there is
no reason to think he was lying. If he was somewhere else at the time, he
would have said so. Why lie to the police about something like that?
Second, the account that Truly and Baker gave of it was too detailed to
have been invented. Third, there is no reason to think that Truly and
Baker knew each other, and you have to know someone pretty well to
conspire to commit perjury with him. Fourth, the encounter with Truly and
Baker was followed immediately by Oswald's encounter with Mrs. Reid, in
which Oswald had a Coke, so you would have to say that she invented it all
too. And fifth, it all works out timewise for Oswald to have done that and
wound up outside in front again to begin his trek home at 12:34. Bottom
line: Oswald went from the doorway to the 2nd floor lunch room, and it was
about the time of the fatal head shot that he left the doorway.

[Anthony Marsh]

What encounter? Baker started on the first floor and was walking up when
he stopped at the second floor when he ran into Oswald on the second
floor. If you have any FACTS to contradict that, please post them.
Otherwise I am not interested in hearing your ever-changing theories.

[tom...@cox.net]

Mark OBLAZNEY <blaz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My apologies for intruding. This is obviously an "OIC Senior
> Member-only" thread.
===========================================================================
=====THE REAL PROBLEM IS FINDING A WARREN SUPPORTER WHO KNOWS ENOUGH ABOUT
THE OFFICIAL EVIDENCE/TESTIMONY TO DEBATE THEM WIYTH ME ! ! !
===========================================================================

[donald willis]

No one has a single fact to support *any* version of the B/T/O
encounter--it's all witness testimony! In his contribution to "JFK First
Day Evidence", Baker did not even *mention* the lunchroom or the 2nd
floor! Nor did he mention a lunchroom in his 11/22 affidavit. It's Baker
whose story was "ever-changing"! Well yes, I guess that is a fact....

dcw

[donald willis]

On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 6:41:50 PM UTC-7, Ralph Cinque wrote:
> There is no doubt that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room and was
> encountered there by Truly and Baker. First, he said he was, and there is
> no reason to think he was lying.

I highly doubt that Oswald confirmed the 2nd-floor story. It was not
mentioned in the Hosty/Bookhout joint report re the first interview. In
same, O goes up to the 2nd floor to get a coke, and there's no mention of
a cop. How did the powers that were rectify this? They had Bookhout do a
follow-up report on the first interview, which indeed seems to place the
encounter on the second floor. But, as Hosty notes, before the
Commission, if two agents attend an interview, both must review their
report and sign off on it. Bookhout's report was not signed by Hosty.
In fact, there would have been no reason for a follow-up report--Bookhout
signed off on the joint report. The solo Bookhout report is a fraud.

Also, note that Bookhout, though he discusses the joint report done with
Hosty re the first interview--before the Commission--he does not so much
as mention in passing his *solo* report on it. Of course--because then
he'd have to explain why he went against FBI reporting protocol!

Oswald did *not* confirm the 2nd-floor encounter....

If he was somewhere else at the time, he
> would have said so. Why lie to the police about something like that?
> Second, the account that Truly and Baker gave of it was too detailed to
> have been invented.

I recall that, before the recordings were revealed, there were tons of
details given in testimony, by many people, about Watergate. So much
detail! So little truth! When not before the Commission, Baker at least
twice made statements about the encounter that omitted any mention of the
lunchroom--his original affidavit and his piece collected in "JFK First
Day Evidence"....

Third, there is no reason to think that Truly and
> Baker knew each other, and you have to know someone pretty well to
> conspire to commit perjury with him.

Ever hear of *suborned* perjury? A third party gets the subjects to
change their original stories. Baker and Truly would not even have to
have met again, after that first day....

Fourth, the encounter with Truly and
> Baker was followed immediately by Oswald's encounter with Mrs. Reid, in
> which Oswald had a Coke, so you would have to say that she invented it all
> too.

Well, you tell me. Baker said that he saw Oswald in sleeves in the
lunchroom. A minute later, Mrs. Reid sees him in a T shirt. *Something*
has been invented here, or badly misremembered, or mistimed....

And fifth, it all works out timewise for Oswald to have done that and
> wound up outside in front again to begin his trek home at 12:34. Bottom
> line: Oswald went from the doorway

A not generally accepted strope

to the 2nd floor lunch room, and it was
> about the time of the fatal head shot that he left the doorway.

And of course those inept conspirators allowed Oswald to be photographed
in public while the shooting was going on! They made some mistakes, but
that was not likely one of them. The patsy had to be kept out of the
public eye to be usable....

dcw

[Ralph Cinque]

What encounter? The encounter that Oswald had with Truly and Baker, that's
what encounter. This is what I am talking about, and no my theories are
not ever-changing. It's Oswald in the doorway during the shooting, and
it's never Oswald shooting Tippit but not Kennedy.


Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, first of all, handing you what the court
reporter has marked as Exhibit 498, I would like you to state if you know
whether or not this appears to be the door leading from the second floor
hallway into the vestibule going into the lunchroom.

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it does.
Mr. BELIN - Is this the door through which you glanced as you came around
the stairs coming up from the first floor?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you see that caused you to turn away from going up to
the third floor?
Mr. BAKER - As I came out of that stairway running, Mr. Truly had already
gone on around, see, and I don't know, as I come around----
Mr. DULLES - Gone on around and up?
Mr. BAKER - He had already started around the bend to come to the next
elevation going up, I was coming out this one on the second floor, and I
don't know, I was kind of sweeping this area as I come up, I was looking
from right to left and as I got to this door here I caught a glimpse of
this man, just, you know, a sudden glimpse, that is all it was now, and
it looked to me like he was going away from me.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I ran on up here and opened this door and when I got this
door opened I could see him walking on down.
Mr. DULLES - Had he meanwhile gone on through the door ahead of you?
Mr. BAKER - I can't say whether he had gone on through that door or not.
All I did was catch a glance at him, and evidently he was--this door might
have been, you know, closing and almost shut at that time.

Mr. BELIN - You are pointing by "this door" to the door on Exhibit 498?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES - You mean you might have seen him as he was opening and going
through the door almost?
Mr. BAKER - Well, to me it was the back of it. Now, through this window
you can't see too much but I just caught a glimpse of him through this window
going away from me and as I ran to this door and opened it, and looked on
down in the lunchroom he was on down there about 20 feet so he was moving
about as fast as I was.
Mr. DULLES - How far were you as you left the stairwell, the stairway----
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES - From that door through which you eventually went through and
then saw Oswald?
Mr. BAKER - I would say that was approximately 15, 20 feet, something like
that.
Mr. BELIN - All right. On Exhibit 499 is this a picture of the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know what direction the camera is pointing to take this
picture?
Mr. BAKER - It would be pointed eastward.
Mr. BELIN - All right. I see a coke machine off on the left. When you saw
Oswald after you got to this doorway inside the lunchroom, had he gone as
far as the coke machine?
Mr. BAKER - I didn't notice the coke machine or any item in the room there
All I was looking at was the man, and he seemed to be approximately 20 feet
down there from me.
Mr. BELIN - As you got to the doorway which on Exhibit 497 is marked as
number, what number is that, you are referring to this number 24 here?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now, with relation to Exhibit 497 perhaps you can try to trace
your route as you came out from the stairway, as to the route you took and
the point you were when you first caught a glimpse of some movement through
that window or door?
Mr. BAKER - At the upper portion of this stairway leading to the second
floor, I was just stepping out on to the second floor when I caught this
glimpse of this man through this doorway.
Mr. BELIN - Do you want to put a spot there, with the letter "B" at the
point you believe you were when you were looking through that door? You put
the letter "B" on Exhibit 497 when you first saw the movement.

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - And then you, from that point, could you kind of trace your
route to the
Mr. DULLES - Could I ask one question before you ask this question, and
this is a bit of a leading question, and think carefully.
If Oswald had been coming down the stairs and going into the lunchroom would
he have been following the course insofar as you saw a course, that he--that
you saw him follow?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. The reason I say that, this hallway to the right.
Mr. BELIN - By the right you mean the hallway that goes to the-- this is--
Mr. BAKER - This is a hallway right here.
Mr. BELIN - It is a hallway that has the number 27 on it?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; from what I understand these are offices in there.
Mr. DULLES - Yes.
Mr. BAKER - And he had no business in there and the lunchroom would be the
only place that he would be going, and there is a door out here that you
can get out and to the other part of the building.
Mr. BELIN - I think Mr. Dulles' question relates to whether or not any
person would have taken a stairway or elevator to have gotten to that point,
is that correct?
Mr. DULLES - Yes; that is correct. I am clear as you come up the stairs
you take a certain course you would go into the lunchroom.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES - I am not quite clear as to where you would end up on the
second floor as you come down the stairs, is it the same point?
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Dulles, if you will look on Exhibit 497, the stairway
appears to be the same stairway. You see the letter, the arrow, 21, points
to the stairway going up to the third floor which, of course, would be the
same stairway going down from the third floor and on the building.
Mr. DULLES - You would cross if you were going up and down, you would
cross right there at the same point?
Mr. BELIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES - And if a man were going up the stairs and then going to the
lunchroom and then coming down the stairs and going to the lunchroom, he
would be approximately following the same course from the time he got off the
stairs and went into that room before you get to the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN - Yes, sir.
(Discussion off the record.) Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, you had just marked
on Exhibit 497 point "B" where you thought you were at about the time you
caught a glimpse of something, either through a door or through the window
in the door marked 23, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Could you trace your route from point "B" to the doorway 23,
if you would, sir.
Mr. BAKER - I ran right straight across here and through this doorway and
this is approximately where, I would say 23 here, is approximately where I
looked through this lunchroom and saw a man on down here.

Mr. BELIN - All right. I am going to put an arrow at that point on Exhibit
497, and this arrow in pen, I am going to put a "B-I" and, at that arrow
which is just to the left of the circle with the number 24 in it you say you
then looked through the doorway and saw a man in the lunchroom, right?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; walking away from me.
Mr. BELIN - Walking away from you. And then where did you move from point
"B-I"?
Mr. BAKER - I moved on to this position 24 right here in this doorway.
Mr. BELIN - All right. I am going to put--you have put an "X" there, and
I am going to put that on Exhibit 497 as an arrow pointing to it, with "B.-2".
Is this where you stood when you called to the man to come back to you?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you move from that time until the man came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - As I called, I remember moving forward a little bit and meeting
him right here in this doorway.
Mr. BELIN - As you called you say you remembered moving forward. and.
meeting him right in the doorway which would be marked with the arrow with
number 24 on it on Exhibit 497, is that right?
Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN - After you got there, did you move until the man came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up
to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it
seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking
shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there
that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150,
would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he
came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was
a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.
Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository
Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a
light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I
couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it
it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the
jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either
one?
Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a
jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't
really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay
any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that
correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the
police station?
Mr. BAKER - He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when
you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection
it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.
Mr. DULLES - You saw Oswald later in the lineup or later
Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw him
when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him down there,
of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into the building and on
up what we are discussing now.
(At this point Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker
Mr. DULLES - I didn't get clearly in mind, I am trying to check up, as to
whether you saw Oswald maybe in the same costume later in the day. Did you
see Oswald later in the day of November 22d?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. DULLES - Under what circumstances? Don't go into detail, I just want
to tie up these two situations.
Mr. BAKER - As I was in the homicide office there writing this, giving this
affidavit, I got hung in one of those little small offices back there,
while the Secret Service took Mr. Oswald in there and questioned him and I
couldn't get out by him while they were questioning him, and I did get to see
him at that time.
Mr. DULLES - You saw him for a moment at that time?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, you then left the second floor lunchroom with
Mr. Truly, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN - How long did you stay in the lunchroom after Truly identified
this person as being an employee?
Mr. BAKER - Just momentarily. As he said, "Yes, he works here," I turned
and went on up the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Do you have any time estimate as to the period of
time that elapsed between the time that you first got to the head of the
stairs and saw some movement through that first doorway and the time you
left-to go back up to the flight of stairs going to the third floor?
Mr. BAKER - I would say approximately maybe 30 seconds, something like
that. It was a real quick interview, you know, and then I left.
Mr. BELIN - All right. As you left, did you notice whether or not the man
in the lunchroom did anything or started moving anywhere?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. As I left he was still in the position that he was
when. ever I was facing him.

[bigdog]

Gee, I wonder why Gillie is a FORMER policeman.

[jfkdis...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 11:10:11 PM UTC-4, Ralph Cinque wrote:
> http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2015/06/former-policeman-gil-jesus-has-made.html

Gil Jesus is a pretty sharp researcher.

[Bud]

Truer words are often spoken.

[bigdog]

On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 9:18:50 AM UTC-4, jfkdis...@gmail.com wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, wait. You were serious.

[Ralph Cinque]

Gil's analysis of JFK's bodily movements after being shot is the best that
has ever been done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk

[Steve Barber]

On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 9:18:50 AM UTC-4, jfkdis...@gmail.com wrote:

Gil Jesus is nothing but a goofball!

[OHLeeRedux]

Ralph Cinque

Gil's analysis of JFK's bodily movements after being shot is the best that has
has ever been done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk

I don't know about his research, but GI Jesus is a pretty cool name.
Sounds like a kids' toy endorsed by Billy Graham.

[bigdog]

It would be the second best if all the others were tied for first.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

Gil's nickname wouldn't be........ 'christ', would it ? Is that who you
were talking about earlier, Raff? Why would you want Gil to be on a
cross? Is he a 'senior member', too ?

[Ralph Cinque]

Steve. This isn't the 6th grade. Calling someone a goofball doesn't cut
it. It amounts to nothing, to not saying anything. Nobody cares about your
ability to call someone names. If you want to criticize him, you have to
delve into his work and find specific faults with it. Capisce?

[bigdog]

Every major college football coach in the country who is on the hot seat
has been compared to Billy Graham. They can both make 90,000 people stand
up and say "Jesus Christ".

[Steve Barber]

Ralph, I call it like I know. He's a goofball and I knew all about his
"work" well before you were ever around here, Ralph! So alas, no capisce!

[Anthony Marsh]

He had to use "goofball" because I already registered "kook."

[Anthony Marsh]

Oh, so you think EVERY Jesus is named Christ? Do you even know what
Christ means? For Christ's sake, do some research.
Do you even know Christ?

[Steve Barber]

That's not funny! That's not funny at all, Mr. Corbett!

[Jason Burke]

Sure you did, Tony. Sure you did.

[OHLeeRedux]

Anthony Marsh

I need to find Jesus.

He hasn't been here to mow my lawn in three weeks.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

I thought you were a registered 'NEWBE', Anthony.

[Anthony Marsh]

McAdams forbade me from using the word Newbie. Or Logo.
Or the term Summa Cum Laude.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

Sulla non approbat. Summa is loud in bed.