42nd Street

[philo]

1966

42nd Street and a burning car.
The streets were filled with:
Drunks,
Hookers.
Drunk hookers.

They didn't say it with disgust.
They didn't say it with dismay.
More like pride:
“They'll never clean up 42nd Street.”


2014

42nd Street and no cars.
The streets were filled with:
Mickey Mouse,
Tourists.
Mickey Mouse tourists.

I was dismayed.
I was disgusted.
My God.
It's even worse.

[ktell...@gmail.com]

Oh yes, I saw both and the later was worse. I grew up 15 mile northwest as the crow flies. I got my first pair of glasses in 1961 near there, but I only remember meeting my Granddaddy who worked as a policeman for the Hudson-Manhattan Tubes. There were always a lot of police officers there back when, so even though it was sleazy, it was fairly safe.

[philo]

Yeah, back in the late 60's my friends and I once got surrounded by 17
cops in NY.

My friends played it cool but I was the wise ass.

When one cop threatened to give me some "lead" I shut up.

It is now so expensive and gentrified I doubt we will go back.

BTW: Yeasr ago my wife and I always stayed at the Chelsea Hotel>

We actually got to know...slightly...some of the residents including
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie


When we'd go and our friends asked us what plays were were going to see.
we told them NONE

It's better to just hang out in the lobby of the Chelsea !

[Will Dockery]

Cool stuff, Philo, glad you're back.

;)

[philo]

Thanks!

[Will Dockery]

> Thanks!

"I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel, you were talking so brave and so sweet..." -Leonard Cohen

It turns out that even my current favorite poet, Mina Loy, was a resident there:

https://strangeflowers.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/pearls-mina-loy/

"The flux of life is pouring its aesthetic aspect into your eyes, your ears – and you ignore it because you are looking for your canons of beauty in some sort of frame or glass case or tradition..." -Mina Loy

[philo]

So many people had lived there.

It's being gentrified now of course

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:59

A Leonard Cohen icon......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Skin_for_the_Old_Ceremony

"Chelsea Hotel #2" refers to a sexual encounter in the Chelsea Hotel, probably New York City's most famous Bohemian hostelry. For some years, when performing this song live, Cohen would tell a story that made it clear that the person about whom he was singing was Janis Joplin.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:18

New York City is 450 miles from Buffalo.... so when we wanted to go jukin' in the City our choice was more often Toronto......

[philo]

I had a lot of friends from New Jersey.
NY was the place.

Still recall seeing the burning car and the cop walking by ignoring it.

[Will Dockery]

That must have been amazing... what was up with cops back then?

[philo]

They were stopping all cars with out of state plates.
Probably just bored

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 7:09:34 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
>
> They were stopping all cars with out of state plates.
> Probably just bored

That seems to be a favorite passtime of cops everywhere, along with the doughnuts.

;)

[philo]

After that experience I figured out that it's best to be polite.

Saved me a few speeding tickets.

I did blow it once though.

When he stopped me he said that he never gives anyone more than one ticket.
He said that if he ever stops me again just to tell him he wrote me up once before.

What I should have said was:

Yep. That's what you told me last time!

[George Sulzbach]

I really miss the peep shows and cheap hookers on 42nd Street. Caught many a male XXX flick there too.

[Will Dockery]

Another George Costanza moment.

;)

[philo]

I was just glad to catch the last days of the Chelsea Hotel. First there in the 90's.
My wife and I made it a point to stay one week every year until they finally deposed "the Bard."

Still in contact with one resident who they could not force out.

Even slightly got to know Stormé.

For those who don't know..
Google ...Stormé DeLaverie .

First time I saw him/her thought : just an old wino.

[Rocky]

Yes that must have been some cool times....

[philo]

Will never forget the first time I saw her shuffle drunkenly across the
lobby.

All I thought was : Old bum who never had a life


WOW was I wrong.


She still was packin' heat!

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Philip Kassner wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 16:30

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie

Wow.........

[philo]

No fooling.
The Chelsea Hotel was just full of incredible people but she/ he might have been the best.

I thought she was an old bum...but soon noticed that all the residents there really respected her.


So glad we were able to talk to her year after year.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

ktellefsen2 wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:31

Sounds like interesting times.....

[philo]

Yes.

Kind of weird though thinking my wife and I will probably not go back.

Where we hope to return each year is Medellín

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Philip Kassner wrote on Sat, 11 April 2020 08:54

> Yes.
>
> Kind of weird though thinking my wife and I will probably not go back.
>
> Where we hope to return each year is Medellín

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medell%C3%ADn

?

[Will Dockery]

Of all the dozens of iconic residents at the Chelsea, the eccentric, almost forgotten rock-n-roller Jobriath is high on the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobriath#Cole_Berlin,_cabaret_and_The_Chelsea_Hotel

"In January 1975, Jobriath announced his retirement from the music industry and moved into a pyramid topped rooftop apartment at the Chelsea Hotel in New York City. He attempted to resume his acting career, and was invited to audition for the role of Al Pacino's lover in the film Dog Day Afternoon. According to keyboard player Hayden Wayne, Jobriath had the script for 'Dog Day Afternoon' backstage at a concert at Nassau Coliseum, and claimed he didn't want to do the film due to the character's wearing of a dress. Calling himself "Cole Berlin" (a play on both Cole Porter and Irving Berlin), he worked as a cabaret singer at a restaurant called the Covent Garden, as well as clubs and cabarets..."

[philo]

Never even heard of him.
Thanks for the info

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:03:33 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
>
> Never even heard of him.
> Thanks for the info

I was lucky to see Jobriath once on Wolfman Jack's late night music show Midnight Special in the mid 1970s... he was wild, dancing in some kind of green lamp shade hula hoop space suit garb, an unforgettable sight, but I can barely remember his music, sort of a Bowie/Roxy Music pastiche.

[philo]

On 4/9/20 3:59 AM, Zod-The...@none.i2p wrote:
> philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:59
>> On 4/8/20 8:31 AM, ktell...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >  On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:18:21 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
>> >>  1966
>> >> >>  42nd Street and a burning car.
>> >>  The streets were filled with:

>> >>  Drugh it was sleazy, it was
>> fair
>>

>> When we'd go and our friends asked us what plays were were going to
>> see. we told them NONE
>>
>> It's better to just hang out in the lobby of the Chelsea !
>
> A Leonard Cohen icon......
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Skin_for_the_Old_Ceremony
>
> "Chelsea Hotel #2" refers to a sexual encounter in the Chelsea Hotel,
> probably New York City's most famous Bohemian hostelry. For some years,
> when performing this song live, Cohen would tell a story that made it
> clear that the person about whom he was singing was Janis Joplin.
>
>

Paul told me that when Janice was singing, she was the most beautiful
woman on Earth

[philo]

Damn. I would probably have been more thrilled to have seen Wolfman !

[philo]

Yep.


Twenty five years ago it was the most dangerous place on earth.

When friends of ours bought a condo there about five years ago, I
thought they were nuts when they asked us to visit.


What not everyone knows is that 25 years ago the government took
military action against the drug lords and invested heavily in building
infrastructure.

Now it is a haven.


Of course it would be impossible to 100% get rid of crime, but it is
much safer than most large US cities.

The Metro system there is incredible."

Spotlessly clean and the trains run about every four minutes.

No one pushes and shoves because ti will be just a short wait until the
next one.

Woman and the elderly are ALWAYS offered seats.

I am 70 and in A-1 shape and I don't know how many times I've had to
smile and refuse.

Food is so cheap there, the money we saved pretty much paid for our airfare.

Vendors with carts of farm fresh fruits and vegetables are everywhere.

[philo]

LOL


I once got a speeding ticket in a small town.

It was only $90 so not a big deal.

I was so polite to the cop he actually felt bad about it. He was not
going to cancel the ticket because they needed the money but he insisted
I take it to court, "because they will do something."

I actually drove away with a smile..then realized that maybe my car
insurance would go up with a moving violation...so I did go to court.


Before I could say a word, they just said:

How about we change this to a non-moving violation with the same fine.


When I got home I looked at the ticket to see what they charged me with:

Vandalizing a street sign !


LOL


Now I'm a criminal

[Will Dockery]

Speaking of Wolfman Jack, have you heard the new Bob Dylan song?

Wolfman is a major "character" there:

Bob Dylan - Murder Most Foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbQkyvbw18

"Greetings to my fans and followers with gratitude for all your support and loyalty across the years. This is an unreleased song we recorded a while back that you might find interesting. Stay safe, stay observant and may God be with you." - Bob Dylan

;)

[philo]

I have only heard about it but have not heard it.

[Will Dockery]

> I have only heard about it but have not heard it.

It is a pretty interesting track... to be 17 minutes long.

;)

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

philo wrote on Wed, 15 April 2020 14:40

> Paul told me that when Janis was singing, she was the most beautiful
> woman on Earth

I can sure believe that......!

[Rocky]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:18:21 AM UTC-7, philo wrote:
>
> 1966
>
> 42nd Street and a burning car.
> The streets were filled with:

> Drunks,
> Hookers.
> Drunk hookers.
>
> They didn't say it with disgust.
> They didn't say it with dismay.
> More like pride:
> “They'll never clean up 42nd Street.”
>
>
> 2014
>
> 42nd Street and no cars.

> The streets were filled with:

> Mickey Mouse,
> Tourists.
> Mickey Mouse tourists.
>
> I was dismayed.
> I was disgusted.
> My God.
> It's even worse.

Already a favorite poem, thanks for posting....

[philo]

Glad you like it.

Still recall going there on a HS trip when I was 16. 1966

They made us promise not to go out at night.

We of course did and took the subway to Greenwich Village.
Scared the hell out ourselves !

[Zod...@novabbs.i2p]

Philip Kassner wrote on Fri, 17 April 2020 00:18

Ha ha ha...

[ktell...@gmail.com]

At 16, I was begging my parents to let me go to the Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum by myself. I had a friend who attended Saturday lectures at the planetarium. Their response was always, "You're a girl."

[philo]

Of course...where I lived, in Milwaukee things seemed safe back then.
I did let my young daughter take the bus and go to the playground.


No way could I do that today

[Hieronymous Corey]

Things seemed safe last month. I don't think you could do that today
even if you wanted to. All the public playgrounds are closed, and public
transit runs on a limited schedule with new safety requirements.

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:40:39 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
> On 4/9/20 3:59 AM, Zod-The...@none.i2p wrote:
> > philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:59
>

> >> >>  1966
> >> >> >>  42nd Street and a burning car.
> >> >>  The streets were filled with:
> >> >>  Drugh it was sleazy, it was
> >> fair
> >>
> >> When we'd go and our friends asked us what plays were were going to
> >> see. we told them NONE
> >>
> >> It's better to just hang out in the lobby of the Chelsea !
> >
> > A Leonard Cohen icon......
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Skin_for_the_Old_Ceremony
> >
> > "Chelsea Hotel #2" refers to a sexual encounter in the Chelsea Hotel,
> > probably New York City's most famous Bohemian hostelry. For some years,
> > when performing this song live, Cohen would tell a story that made it
> > clear that the person about whom he was singing was Janis Joplin.
>

> Paul told me that when Janis was singing, she was the most beautiful
> woman on Earth

She had a unique beauty.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 17 April 2020 13:15

That she did, my friend, that she did....

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 13:59

> On 4/8/20 8:31 AM, ktell...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:18:21 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:

> >> 1966
> >>
> >> 42nd Street and a burning car.
> >> The streets were filled with:

> >> Drunks,
> >> Hookers.
> >> Drunk hookers.
> >>
> >> They didn't say it with disgust.
> >> They didn't say it with dismay.
> >> More like pride:
> >> "They'll never clean up 42nd Street."
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014
> >>
> >> 42nd Street and no cars.

> >> The streets were filled with:

> >> Mickey Mouse,
> >> Tourists.
> >> Mickey Mouse tourists.
> >>
> >> I was dismayed.
> >> I was disgusted.
> >> My God.
> >> It's even worse.
> >

> > Oh yes, I saw both and the later was worse. I grew up 15 mile northwest as the crow flies. I got my first pair of glasses in 1961 near there, but I only remember meeting my Granddaddy who worked as a policeman for the Hudson-Manhattan Tubes. There were always a lot of police officers there back when, so even though it was sleazy, it was fairly safe.
> >
>
>
>
> Yeah, back in the late 60's my friends and I once got surrounded by 17
> cops in NY.
>
> My friends played it cool but I was the wise ass.
>
> When one cop threatened to give me some "lead" I shut up.
>
> It is now so expensive and gentrified I doubt we will go back.
>
> BTW: Yeasr ago my wife and I always stayed at the Chelsea Hotel>
>
> We actually got to know...slightly...some of the residents including
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie

>
>
> When we'd go and our friends asked us what plays were were going to see.
> we told them NONE
>
> It's better to just hang out in the lobby of the Chelsea !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma7BK2MJNqo

I can still hear the sounds of those Methodist bells,
I'd taken the cure and had just gotten through,
Staying up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,
Writing "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.
--Bob Dylan

[Rocky]

Ha ha ha....

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

philo wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 16:47
> On 4/8/20 10:22 AM, Will Dockery wrote:

> > Cool stuff, Philo, glad you're back.
> >
> > ;)
> >
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!

Agreed and seconded....

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Wed, 08 April 2020 15:22

Agreed and seconded.....

[Rocky]

Things seem to be getting better around here...

[Rocky]

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 8:18:55 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:

Ha ha ha...

[philo]

BTW:

We stayed at the Edison Hotel and I stole a hanger

49 years later I again stayed at the Edison and I brought the hanger back.

I took a good look at it before I brought it to the front desk, then
noticed that they in fact had stolen it from the (no longer existing)
dry cleaner next door...so I brought it back home again and is in my
closet now!

[Rocky]

Cool stories....

[philo]

Thanks.
Now another one.

My great-grandfather had a dry goods business in the early 1900's and
from city records knew where the building is and pass by occasionally.
He passed away in 1931 and it became a tavern with residence upstairs.

A few days ago on a local Facebook page a woman posted a photo of the
building and wanted to know if anyone had info about it because she was
pretty sure her great-grandfather had a tavern there,
I almost feel off my chair when I saw the photo..then told her ...you
bet I have info!


From city records it seems that on that lot was originally a small
wooden house that was moved out on the the street while a new brick
building was constructed.

Amazingly I found the 1911 city records for Milwaukee:




Jacob Kassner Property 1911

By ALD. SZCZERBINSKI
FILE NUMBER 542

Resolved, That permission be and hereby is granted Jacob Kassner to move
his house on Eleventh avenue, in the Fourteenth ward, for a period not
exceeding 90 days, pending the erection of a new building on the
premises known as 732 Becher street. The said Jacob Kassner to put the
street in as good condition as the same now is at the expiration of this
permit and to maintain danger signals between sundown and sunrise on
said obstruction during the occupancy of said street.

Resolved further, That the said Jacob Kassner will hold the city of
Milwaukee harmless from all accidents or damages which may arise by
reason of the granting of this permit.

Upon motion the rules were suspended and the resolution adapted.





<<<< ... ... >>>

Perhaps even more amazing is that I've lived in Milwaukee long enough
that I know how SZCZERBINSKI is pronounced.

Probably something like Sherbinski

[ktell...@gmail.com]

My great-grandfather had a butter and eggs store in Washington Market, where the World Trade Center is today. He had a refrigerated warehouse across the street. In 1921, Edwin O'Malley, part of the notorious Tammany Hall, forced him to sell the warehouse to New York Telephone so they could use the entire block to build a large office building.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_Building

[Dental River]

The WTC was built over Cortlandt Street, which in the 40s-60s was NYC's "Radio Row", a conglomerate of small shops that sold every electronic part. It was all razed for the new project around 1963.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 17 April 2020 13:15

That she did.....

[ktell...@gmail.com]

Interesting. I don't know when the butter and eggs store closed, but my grandfather stopped driving the delivery truck during WWII and went to work for Air Reduction. By the time I bought parts, the shops were on Canal St and Midtown.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Dental River wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 02:08

Fascinating back story.....

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

ktellefsen2 wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 02:30

> On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:08:01 PM UTC-4, Dental River wrote:
> > On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:56:24 PM UTC-7, ktell...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 8:50:54 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
> >>> On 4/24/20 6:42 PM, Rocky wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:17:45 PM UTC-3, philo wrote:
> >>>> > On 4/22/20 7:03 PM, Rocky wrote:
> >>>> >> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 8:18:55 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
> >>>> >>> Glad you like it.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Still recall going there on a HS trip when I was 16. 1966
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> They made us promise not to go out at night.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> We of course did and took the subway to Greenwich Village.
> >>>> >>> Scared the hell out ourselves !
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Ha ha ha...
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > BTW:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > We stayed at the Edison Hotel and I stole a hanger
> >>>> >
> >>>> > 49 years later I again stayed at the Edison and I brought the hanger back.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I took a good look at it before I brought it to the front desk, then
> >>>> > noticed that they in fact had stolen it from the (no longer existing)
> >>>> > dry cleaner next door...so I brought it back home again and is in my
> >>>> > closet now!
> >>>>
> >>>> Cool stories....
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Now another one.
> >>>
> >>> My great-grandfather had a dry goods business in the early 1900's and

> >>> from city records knew where the building is and pass by occasionally..
> >>> He passed away in 1931 and it became a tavern with residence upstairs..

Very cool history lesson....