Subwoofers and archaic noise ordinances

[Jim]

Does anyone know if low frequencies which are more "felt" than heard are
adequately covered in city noise ordinances? Many codes seem to have been
written before the advent of modern subwoofers and don't detail their
widespread abuse in today's world.

It used to be that loud music meant (relatively) uniform volume among
bass, mid-range and high frequencies. To get significant low bass you had
to bring up more of the entire spectrum along with it, even with an
equalizer. In most homes and cars there weren't dedicated, discrete
woofers that could output extreme bass levels with the rest of the music
reasonably quiet. Many subwoofers can create output that older all-in-one
speaker enclosures weren't even capable of. Many young people seek music
specifically for its bass content as a primal ritual like banging heavy
drums.

Because of its long wavelengths and ability to travel through walls that
attenuate mid-range and high frequencies, low bass (typically 40 to 100
Hz) has become a pervasive annoyance across the nation. It has the effect
of a wall being pounded on with no physical contact. Imagine someone
bouncing a basketball off your wall for hours on end. The malice
perpetrated with a subwoofer should be treated as equally belligerent,
even without physical wall contact.

This presents an especially big nuisance in dwellings with shared walls
that have a minimal air-gap for sound insulation. Scofflaws in apartments
can listen to "low level" music with the bass curve far out of
proportion, and claim that it doesn't exceed allowed dB levels, even
though they know full well it's disturbing their neighbors.

Subwoofers would ideally be banned altogether in apartments and condos.
Too many people lack the self-control to use them respectfully. Some are
addicted to bass like a drug, or blast it in their cars to show off and
mark territory. Few humans alive today have not been exposed to "boom-
cars," even in isolated rural areas. But legal details don't seem to have
caught up with loudspeaker technology.

Below are excerpts from a California city noise code as a generic
example. The lowest frequency mentioned is 500 Hz, which is mid-bass,
well above the output of a typical subwoofer. This is probably because
it's much harder to measure low bass where dB meters are less sensitive.

-----

Radios, tape players on publicly owned property:
(a) As used in this section, the phrase "a person of normal hearing
sensitivity" means a person who has a hearing threshold level of between
zero decibels and 25 decibels HL averaged over the frequencies 500, 1,000
and 2,000 hertz.
(b) Notwithstanding any other section of this Code and in addition
thereto, it is unlawful for any person to permit or cause any noise,
sound, music or program to be emitted from any radio, tape player, tape
recorder, record player or television outdoors on or in any publicly
owned property, park or place when such noise, sound, music or program is
audible to a person of normal hearing sensitivity 100 feet from the
radio, tape player, tape recorder, record player or television.

Interior noise standards:
(a) In any apartment, condominium, townhouse, duplex or multiple-dwelling
unit, it is unlawful for any person to create any noise from inside his
or her unit that causes the noise level, when measured in a neighboring
unit during the periods 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., to exceed the following:
(1) Forty-five dBA for a cumulative period of more than five minutes in
any hour.
(2) Fifty dBA for a cumulative period of more than one minute in any
hour.
(3) Fifty-five dBA for any period of time.

-----

Subwoofer crimes require sophisticated equipment to document without
first-hand observations, and police generally lack time to witness noise
events. My Radio Shack dB meter won't pick up much below mid-range unless
it's right in front of a speaker. I have dealt with "home invasion" bass
almost daily after a neighboring apartment was bought by a slumlord. It's
loud enough to cause constant stress but not enough to measure easily.
The tenants are too evil to care and the owner won't take action, nor
will the property management company. Calling the police would make my
life hell around these criminals.

In the absence of an official witness for repeat incidents (impractical),
how do you technically get someone evicted who only sends low bass
through your walls?

Jim

[David Martel]

Jim,

You are correct that Db meters are often not sensitive below 40 Hz. I
think that replacing the microphone with one designed for bass response may
fix this. But that's an engineering problem and won't help you now.
From what you have posted it sounds as if you have neighbors who play loud
music. You can hear this music in your apartment. You won't call the cops or
complain out of fear. So how will better Db meters or better laws help?
The first step in any noise complaint should be discussing the issue
calmly with your neighbors. I note here that you do not want them to turn it
down, you want them evicted. That's not an attitude that will help you.

Good luck,
Dave M.

[Gordon Burditt]

> You are correct that Db meters are often not sensitive below 40 Hz. I

Db meters are deliberately made with a specific frequency response,
(perhaps something approximating the human ear response) and this
frequency response often specifically called out in regulations
(e.g. OSHA rules about workplace noise levels).

The dbA weighting cuts out most of the bass. The dbC weighting
doesn't, and is intended more to represent the human ear at very
high noise levels, such as for traffic studies.

>think that replacing the microphone with one designed for bass response may
>fix this. But that's an engineering problem and won't help you now.

It won't fix the problem for another reason - if it doesn't make
the measurement the way the regulation says, you can't use it to
invoke the regulation. You have to use a properly calibrated meter,
where properly calibrated depends on the regulation.

I suspect I could make a very loud siren that reads silence at the
3 frequencies mentioned and it still causes ear damage several
blocks away.

[Jim]

"David Martel" <mart...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:dr7Xl.935$tr5...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net:

As I noted, calling the police would only escalate the problem; to the
point of vandalism or even violence.

They have been asked many times to turn down the bass and keep claiming
to be "cool" about it, yet make NO change to their behavior. They get
more belligerent each time, with glassy-eyed stares and jailhouse
language.

The clincher was when one of these creatures said FU! after he woke me up
with a car stereo just feet away from my sleeping area and I asked him to
turn it off. I even said "please" to the cretin, who had lost his right
to politeness six months prior. This was after a Sunday of his dumb kin
thumping bass inside the house for 6 hours. It creates stress similar to
combat duty. You never know when incoming rounds will arrive.

Those who've actually lived near avttref know that negotiation only works
on TV or movies with feel-good endings. In real life, avttref hold their
ground and take on a persecution complex, for they have been historically
wronged and therefor can do no wrong themselves.

So, I'm just looking for a technical way to document it (consumer
product?) and asking that ordinances be rewritten for this particular
modern noise problem.

Jim

[Gordon Burditt]

>So, I'm just looking for a technical way to document it (consumer
>product?)

*Some* Radio Shack sound level meters have settings where they can
measure dbC as well as dbA. I have one that does. (Cost about
$45. I got it when a question came up about whether the workplace
server room noise level exceeded safe levels. It didn't, but it
was close enough I got earplugs anyway. Real, official meters for
regulatory compliance are likely to cost thousands.)

However, you can't take a dbC measurement, point out that it exceeds
the noise levels specified in the ordinance as dbA, and expect to
get any help from the ordinance. They are different measurements,
as you'll find out if you try measuring dbA and dbC for the same
noise, even noise that doesn't have a lot of bass. dbC measures
frequences on the high end higher than dbA also.

You might manage to take measurements in dbC, and compare them to
levels that OSHA considers to be unsafe in the workplace (if OSHA
or other regulatory agencies uses dbC for that at all, the regulations
I found use dbA). However, from what you describe, this sound is
at a level that is *annoying*, not *damaging* and OSHA is concerned
about what's damaging.

[elvisc...@gmail.com]

I have one next door, I have called the police on him 27 times and I finally got him on one violation, hopefully its going to court. It says extremely loud music. I know how the courts are today. oh let them go it wasn't that loud. I'm in San Antonio TX and we are way beyond on noise levels. He and she play that Sub woofer noise like no tomorrow and I have to hear it all over my house. Sometimes I cant even pay my bills because I'm tired from the music from last night but then at 9 am he starts all over again. I have tried taping it and webcam and other taping recordings none of them work like my ears. Jim your writings help me but they don't help me having that noise coming inside my home and I've text and called his landlord.

[lgu...@reninet.com]

On Sunday, June 7, 2009 7:43:19 PM UTC-7, Jim wrote:
> Does anyone know if low frequencies which are more "felt" than heard are
> adequately covered in city noise ordinances?

Hi Jim,
Such a well written comment! But old, 2009, so I'm curious to know how you've progressed. I do not live in an apartment, but in a wooden house, in a neighborhood. My subwoofer neighbor's house is about 12 yards from mine, with a tall fence in between. The subwoofer beat enters my house easily, and sometimes when he plays it "quietly" I cannot hear it outside, but can hear it inside since I believe that basically it vibrates the structure of my house. It's like living inside a drum. I'm curious to know if you, or others you've heard of, have made any headway in updating residential noise restrictions. Also if you know of any groups or links active on this subject. Best wishes, Lynne

[mari...@abv.bg]

I have the same problem with subwoofers neighbors, is there a law that limits and how to make measurements svarhniskite frequencies to prove at home?

[alan...@gmail.com]

[kept...@gmail.com]

I literally feel your pain. When I hear a base, especially in a car, my ear drum (inner ear) hurts. Like someone is poking it with a dull pencil point. I live in a newly built home and the contractor used specific boards/walls in my bedroom to help with noise reduction. My architect husband verified. It’s great, except for the base played at my neighbors home and at the new bar four blocks away that has loud music outside for food truck Friday. I called the bar and asked nicely. to turn down. The following week I called the police, but the place had a permit to play music outside. I’m pretty sure the police did not check the decibels. I finally went down and literally unpluged the speakers. They said they will call the police and I said would you like to use my phone or yours. Police never showed.

I’m lost, frustrated and feel helpless. I believe in letting people do what they want as long as it doesn’t harm someone else and hopefully them self. But I’m being hurt and can’t prove it.

If the offender was hitting me with a hammer the police would do something. But the base they play is like an invisible hammer to my ears.

I don’t know what to do!

[meado...@gmail.com]

Loved Jim's original post. I, too, would love to know if any progress has been made in regulating the noise from sub woofers. I've never been in combat, but the comment about combat stress and always wonder when the next incoming attack will occur really resonates with me. I have gotten almost no sleep since my downstairs neighbors moved in two weeks ago. I am practically in tears all the time because of the stress from their noise.

[chriscle...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 4:58:10 PM UTC-4, meado...@gmail.com wrote:
> Loved Jim's original post. I, too, would love to know if any progress has been made in regulating the noise from sub woofers. I've never been in combat, but the comment about combat stress and always wonder when the next incoming attack will occur really resonates with me. I have gotten almost no sleep since my downstairs neighbors moved in two weeks ago. I am practically in tears all the time because of the stress from their noise.

I retained a lawyer who is taking a different approach based on real property rights and encroachment. I have an inconsiderate neighbor that does not understand that an unwanted, unescapeable rhythmic sound, however soft, can totally drive others insane. It affects our health and ability to concentrate. I am financing it as a major home improvement.

[watki...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, June 7, 2009 at 7:43:19 PM UTC-7, Jim wrote:

Check the city noise ordinance. You can call the police if your landlord is not taking action. The police usually employ special officers who deal only with noise complaints.They are fully aware of the inaudible noise you speak of. You might check to see if other neighbors are also bothered. You can have visitors come over and witness it as well. The more people the better because everyone will report that it is far worse than audible higher frequency noise. If the landlord refuses to believe you, there are lots of pages on the internet you can refer him to so he understands that he has to be living in your unit to realize the damage to your peace this is causing. You can print a bunch of articles on the subject and start raising awareness of it. The offender would have to prove he/she doesn't have the means to create such a vibration, but if the police or security can hear it outside their unit, they can knock on the door and see if there is a warm sub-woofer in the unit. I downloaded a seismometer on my iphone to record vibrations off the wall. It certainly shows vibration directly from the neighbor's sub-woofer. He isn't playing music, it's a video game, so it's just explosions. Really daunting. 5 hours a day.

[sweetne...@gmail.com]

I'm currently experiencing the same issue with my neighbor. While he doesn't play his music on a daily basis, once a week he will blast his stereo with subwoofers for hours on end. It penetrates the wall of my apartment and like another poster said here it's like I'm living in a drum. I spoke with him about it once last year and he turned the music down. Then I just kind of put up with it for the rest of the year until today. I couldn't take it anymore. He wasn't so nice about it and he took offense saying he should be able to listen to his music how he likes it. It's the holiday weekend. I asked him to just turn down the bass. We'll see how that works out. He said he's leaving for the weekend so I won't have to hear it. I've lived here 5 years and never had any issue till he moved in two years ago. And I don't like to complain but the noise is affecting my sanity. My blood pressure goes up, I feel stressed and anxious.
I want to thank you for your very informative post and for detailing everything. I'm going to follow what you've said. I have my homework to do.
Stressed in Los Angeles

[honol...@gmail.com]

I’m going thru the same thing with renters next door, it’s electronic harassment. HOA won’t do anything. The low frequency bass and rumbling goes into my house 24 hours a day, I think they must leave the subwoofer or system on all the time. Worse when they’re watching tv or gaming. I’ve complained several times to no avail so I’m getting a lawyer as it’s making my life hell and affecting my property values. No one would want to live here.

[jsincl...@gmail.com]

Hi Jim and other Posters
As with other posters here, I am going through exactly the same thing. I have lived in harmony with rented neighbours for six years until they recently made a den in the garage between our houses, but right up against my wall for their 20 year old son. He sleeps all day and then early evening goes into the garage and plays music until daylight next morning. I cant hear the music, but the low frequency bass vibrations go right through my house and me and I am becoming a nervous wreck. I have complained and complained and complained amicably, but now it has gone far past this. My neighbours deny that there is any bass on, and that there is only a 30 watt speaker and a lap top, and that the son plays music on headphones. However I hear the thumping beat all night long so I dont believe it. It makes me a woman possessed, and I got out of bed the other night and thumped on the garage at 3.30am in the morning. Bad idea, the repercussions are rebounding on me with all the sons friends turning up in their cars and sitting on my drive with their sub woofers on (it is their "culture"apparently). I am scared to make an official report until I can prove what I am going through as my other neighbours do not hear the low frequency bass noise and I live on my own. It is Covid lockdown here, so could not be a worse time to be going through this. As it is now 2020, are there any non expensive meters that can pick up this low frequency noise to help me with building my case. I am in the UK, and the law says it is on your side, but in reality, you do not make an official report until you can really prove your case. The noise can not be heard outside the garage, but inside my house it is unbearable, as another poster said, it is like being inside a drum. I am keeping a log, but need to be able to monitor the sounds to go forward. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. I am at my wits end and stressed beyond belief.

[walsh...@gmail.com]

I have same problem. The neighbors below me play the bass all night! We have complained to the landlord 4 times! They say it is my word against the word of the tenant below me and they can't do anything about it without proof and to call the police. The sound doesn't record and it is a low boom,boom,boom all night! I have lived here for 7 years and love it here but for sanity reasons I will have to move even though it will be financially hard!

[laurap...@gmail.com]

Can you please share if and how the lawyer was able to prove the encroachment?

[Richard Hanslip]

I am experiencing the same thing. It's awful. I live outside the city limits and it's a pretty quiet area but a couple of new neighbors moved in several weeks ago and started disturbing the peace. If it's not the bass from their car, it's the bass from a subwoofer in their trailer. Thankfully, they don't do it very much at night but they feel no compunction about letting it rip at random times throughout the day. It's so loud that there's often nowhere in my house that I can get away from the thumping bass even though their place is approximately 300 feet away. I've asked them to turn it down but they obviously feel entitled to wreck the peace of others. Definitely a nerve-wracking situation as you all have described. I'm at my wits end.

There is a noise ordinance but it does not cover dB(c) bass frequency- only dB(a) for higher frequency noises. I've contacted the sheriff's office and the state police but they don't even have a decibel meter out here. There is supposed to be a special officer who handles these kind of things but they currently haven't hired one. I've made a report and the deputies have said that they will try to contact the culprits although I'm not sure if they've had any success. Some of them seem sympathetic while some seem to think I'm nuts. I think they know that the ordinance doesn't really give them much authority. That, and it's something that a lot of people just seem to not take very seriously even though it's obviously a widespread problem and affects quality of life.

I've even considered reaching out to the board of county commissioners to see what it takes for a new ordinance to be drafted (or the existing one to be updated). I just don't know what else to do. I wish people would have more consideration for others but even when some people know that they are offending those around them they just get defensive and act as though they have right to be obnoxious. What sort of a decent person moves into a new neighborhood causes such a disturbance?

Has anyone had any luck pushing back on this kind of thing? I'm interested to know if anyone has had any resolution? I'll follow-up here as my situation progresses. Good luck everyone.

[Chris Clement]

writing letters -
re: noise ordinances
I am requesting as a citizen and property owner that you examine and update existing noise ordinances county-wide to cover loud bassy music 24 x 7. This low-frequency energy travels through most walls and resonates in rooms with standing waves 4 to 60 feet long matching most room dimensions. It can go from one person's vehicle or property line into another person's home regardless of setbacks. This should not be allowed at any time of day. Modern technology coupled with consumer irresponsibility affects people living, working, sleeping, studying, reading, or doing anything involving concentration. No person shall, for their enjoyment only, put others in such uncomfortable and unavoidable circumstances with their sonic energy discharge at any time.
Measurement and documentation is complex but simply being able to hear it inside one's home at any level by a person with normal hearing should suffice as proof. The unincorporated county daytime decibel limit of 72 can easily be exceeded in the form of rhythmic bass pulses or moans with inexpensive but powerful consumer entertainment gear that should require a license to operate. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/363516274630163
Thumpers - Are you bothered by loud bassy music that is not yours?

[Sean Rainey]

Still having this problem in New Haven CT in 2022. The city NEEDS to do something about constant subwoofer abuse in neighborhoods.

[Chris Clement]

Chris Clement
9:24 PM (3 minutes ago)
to alt.activism.noise.pollution

I had some success with code enforcement based on the idea that "if it isn't too loud, it is too close" and the calculated setback would put them off their lot. This is part of your right to "peaceful enjoyment" of your land.

[Chris Clement]

The code people claim to have equipment that can accurately measure this but won't. What you can do is create a sound field that disturbs them but would require a measurement to prove. A cheap siren or horn operated at less than the normal voltage so that the manufacturer's specification would not apply, for long periods of time during the day will give you a bargaining chip.Their ability to complain is no different than yours. You can say you are meditating or testing or know nothing about it.

[Bee Dear]

Congress needs to enact laws concerning bass abuse. Powerful subwoofers should not even be legal to buy unless they are are for concert halls or areans. Someone should not have powerful subwoofers that send bass sounds miles from where they live in residential areas. Apartment residents should not own subwoofers at all. For some reason bass sounds bother me to no end. Presently, I work at Amazon and they play very loud bass music. I'm going to have to quit. I've been very fortunate not to have close neighbors that play loud bass for long periods of time. There are some Mexicans that live pretty far from me but their bass reaches my place. I walked the neighborhoods searching for it and have discovered it's several different Mexicans playing their truck subwoofers. They don't speak english. I wrote a note saying "bass music travels far distances, bass sounds like a fog horn, please turn the bass dIown." I told a neighbor of theirs that I came to get their address for when I call in a noise complaint to the police. She asked me to please call the police because they bother her with loud music every night. I did not though because they turned down the bass to where I can't hear it. It's been 3 days since I heard it. I absolutely could not tolerate a neighbor that played consistant loud bass. If I could not move, I swear I would have to kill myself.