What About Bad Cops?

[Norm Olson]

Here's what another resident said:

 

Ann Krogseng First, there is a check and balance system in place in the ordinance regarding the chief law enforcement officer. (Please read the ordinance). The State of Alaska also has a check and balance system for the vetting and screening of potential officers, as well as a process in place for the termination and decertification of police officers. These individuals will be union employees, and the union truly does not want a reputation of condoning individuals that do not adhere to the standards set forth. Second, as stated in the ordinance, the the board members themselves must also be accountable to the community: Amongst other reasons for termination as a board member Is if s/he is "convicted of an offense involving a violation of his oath of office or is removed from office pursuant to a recall election." If the board adopts to contract out law enforcement, and there is a problem, the board and mayor will be involved with that contracting agency. If the board adopts its own Nikiski police force and there a concern, the mayor will undoubtedly hear from the community and be involved in that process with the board. Third, it's a small community and word gets around if there are problems. This Service Area Board will be held in high scrutiny by the community for its actions and its accountability to the people--more so than any other service area board. And of course, if no one likes it, we can always vote to dissolve the service area. The final say is from the people through the voting and public process. I don't have all the answers, for sure. The board will have a lot of work to do, and with community input and support, together we can create a safer community.

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[ray southwell]

Where is the link to these posted comments? I cannot find them on FaceBook.

Ray

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[Norm Olson]

 

The Face Book page is     Nikiski Community Action Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/745696202134617/

 

Join in, Ray... There are many threads and comments.  Your

input is valuable in looking at every aspect of this ordinance

BEFORE October.

 

Norm

----- Original Message ----- From: 'ray southwell' via Alaska Citizens Militia

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:50 AM

Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] What About Bad Cops?

[ray southwell]

Thanks Norm. I have been attempting to find the group for some time. I could not find it through Google or Facebook until yesterday.

Like most groups you must get permission to speak. I asked to join yesterday and wait for permission to express my thoughts.

Often, political groups only want to discuss their answers to difficult issues.

Ray

[Norm Olson]

I sent in a request on your behalf yesterday.   The moderator/admin will

give you an okay soon.  

[ray southwell]

Still waiting for permission to discuss all options. This FaceBook group is closed and I am unable to respond or see posts. Perhaps they do not want to here from the likes of me. I wonder why? Perhaps it is because they were told I support vigilantism. As you know, nothing could be further from the truth. 

Ray

[Norm Olson]

They're just slow with the admin's approval.

 

If supporting vigilantism was the reason to keep people off the site, I'd

be blocked.    I fully support vigilantism.   Some of the best law and order

efforts in American history was conducted by vigilantes.    The reason

that vigilantes get a bad rap is that people use the negative aspects

of the process to justify the creation of bureaucracies and governments which can

tax the people for law officers.      As you say, "it's all about the money."

 

Like the militia, vigilantes cost nothing.

[ray southwell]

Vigilantes are cowards who are too frightened to openly stand up against drug dealers. The vigilantes of the 60's generated the creation of the Deacons for Defense.

I have always supported an open militia. Years ago we were told to hide our activities and change our name. We stood in defiance of government and the media with nothing to hide about our activities. 

I stand openly with a few others to disrupt the drug dealers activities. Not through vigilante behavior but through courage and faith, to demonstrate, the community has  had enough.

Others hope they can hide in fear hoping somebody else will take care of the problem with supporting a police department or vigilante violence.

While on the radio the other day the radio personality told me he supported the militia and the Second Amendment. I said, are you in a militia? His quick response was no. Many here are the same. Everybody supports the Second Amendment but few have the courage to actually be in a militia.

And even less are willing to be in the Deacons for Defense and actually do something as a community to decrease the drug activity causing the crime.  

Ray 

[Norm Olson]

I think that it is not the idea of vigilantism so much as the behavior of some groups

that gives it a bitter taste in the mouths of Americans.  

 

 

Vigilantes get a bad rap because we assume that they are lawless renegades bent

on killing and destruction.    The links below show that vigilance groups were a necessary and

important part of bringing law and order to areas where no government "law enforcement"

existed or where the local government was corrupt.   

 

If we look historically at why vigilance groups were formed and why they were created, we get

another point of view.    Especially revealing is the history of the Montana Vigilantes.  I won't

try to explain everything that is in the link below, but it is well worth the time to read.  It may be

an "eye-opener" to see how necessary vigilance groups were in bringing law and order to

America.

 

Did you know that Robin Hood and his Merry Men were vigilantes?  Remember that vigilantism

comes about when there is no law enforcement "official" or when the existing government

body is ruthless, cruel, and corrupt.    Remember also that Vigilance groups were created

by the people, with elected leaders and sworn deputies.   Yes, they were harsh against

evil doers, but look at the legal system today that sends criminals back into our communities

or finds guilty those who themselves try to do something about the crime in the community.

Who is more cruel? those who will banish or punish thieves and murderers, or those who

will slap their wrist and send them back into the community to engage is more criminal behavior?

The Vigilance Committee was not about "rehabilitation" of criminals.  They had no jails or

prisons with libraries, gyms, and job-placement counselors.  If criminals survived their trial,

they were often banished and warned never to return to the community.

 

Please read about the "Lincoln County Regulators."   They were a vigilante group that opposed a

corrupt government.   The history of the Lincoln County Wars highlights the need for groups

that will stand for justice against evil men.

 

It could be argued that the militia itself is a Vigilance Group watching and and keeping guard

against a government that is a threat to peace, justice and order.

 

One this is for sure, the Vigilance Groups filled the need to safeguard and protect the public,

both in their homes and while they were traveling (read about the highway bandits in Montana).

 

In every case, when the people were able to seat an honest Sheriff or Constable (who had the

power to deputize), the need for a Vigilance Group disappeared. The same with the militia.

Once we return to a just system of government, the need of a militia will go away and return

to its place within the people.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Vigilantes

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_County_Regulators

[ray southwell]

Vigilantes seek justice as defined by them. We see the growing discontent in the cities where vigilantes seek justice against abusive police behavior. In the mid east we see ISIL seeking their justice against all who see things in a different light. We have talked about this before. Calling it street justice. One gang seeking justice against another.

With expanding vigilantism comes increasing need for more police with more military might. Your support of vigilantism behavior will increase the fear in the people generating more support for the ordinance of creating a police department.

My thoughts continue the same over the years. All issues are based on economics. Government keep us under control with economic fears against us.  Drug dealers do the same.

My plan has never been to seek my justice or your justice against drug  dealers. It is a plan to disrupt the drug dealers financial success. No punishment needed. Take the money motivation out of the  formula and you drive the dealers out of the community. The old common law was to remove from society those who are bringing problems to society. Think about the punishment in our system. It generates money to government and those who work for  government. It does not stop drug crime until the money motivation is out of the formula.

As I posted earlier. Because of the lack of public involvement, the troopers took seven years to arrest a drug dealer. A man told me yesterday we should shoot drug dealers in the head and stop the behavior. (old man talk). But with such great money motivation others will take their place.

We must face our fears and not hide and seek our justice but disrupt the money motivation of the drug dealers.

Ray

[ray southwell]

As the proposed ordinance states. "Whereas grant opportunities may exist which could aid in the startup of the LESA; . . . "

Federal grant money at its finest.  To keep us safe from all types of terrorist, Islamic, drug dealers and vigilantes.

From the Tenth Amendment Center- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K3LxUlGUSQ

[Shane Land]

Ray,

What would be your plan to interrupt the financial success of the drug dealers?  Being that money is the motivating factor for the drug dealers, what about the motivating factor of demand from the drug users?  You discuss the economic factor in your proposal, what of the economic factor of supply and demand?  How would you propose to disrupt this?

I was also wondering a bit about the crime statistics that are specifically related to the drug problem.  What statistical data do you have that supports a rise in criminal activity that specifically relates to drugs/narcotics in Nikiski (other than there being drug dealers obviously)?

Shane

[ray southwell]

Shane,

Allow me to answer your second question first. In October of 2013 the "Nikiski Community Council was asked to sponsor a fact finding committee on what the problems are, and make recommendations to address property crime and promote long-term safety of residents."

There report was finished on January 26, 2015 and a summary was sent to Assemblyman Wayne Ogle on February 2, 2015.

In part it states- "The Community of Nikiski has a drug problem that fuels a property crime problem."

Norm was on the committee for 8 months (Met weekly) and supported the conclusions and recommendations.

Perhaps he can tell you how the conclusion were determined.

My plan is simple but risky. Drug users are community members who frequent the dealers home to purchase the products. Supply and demand. Depending on the drug used addiction rates are around 10%. Much as the same with alcohol use. But just like illegal alcohol, illegal drugs generate great sources of income and the users wants more bang for the buck. 

Not all users are addicts and crooks. They support their recreational habits while working and holding down jobs. 

The Deacons for Defense will be an armed neighborhood watch. We will take pictures and license plates of the dealers customers. Sharing the information with the police and the community. The recreational user will move to another dealer to keep safe from exposure.

The dealers revenue stream will decrease. I believe their response will be simple. Move out of the community. Move to one where their economic success can return.

There was a time I cared about my nation and Alaska. But the people accept the status quo with the money in their pockets. I have accepted the only thing left is to serve my community for the sake of the children.

Ray  

[Norm Olson]

The cold hard reality remains:  People will oppose ANY, repeat ANY, self-imposed system of

law enforcement if they (the people) have to get personally involved.      

 

The plan to disrupt the drug dealer's financial success is at this point an idea.   To convince

the community that the idea can work, there must be a demonstration of its effectiveness.

Even if the LESA ordinance passes, it will be at least 3 years before any police boots hit

the ground.   If those who have a plan that will rid Nikiski of the dealers and take away the

source of drugs from users, they should implement the plan immediately.  Show the community

that there is an alternative to a police force. 

 

I agree that the economic aspect of the drug trade is the key to breaking the cycle, BUT so

far no one in our community is lifting a finger to put something into action.     And, if it is to fly,

it will have to be done covertly and clandestinely because the people, by their nature,  would

rather wait on uniformed police.  But, if a group of individuals were to actually take action,

it would show the community that maybe there's another way to solve the problem without

hiring someone else to do it.

 

I hope that those who support an alternative plan will hold public meetings to discuss it.

 

We have three years to wait before any kind of police department is established in Nikiski.

What will we do until then?   Who will take the lead?   The time is right to put the plan to

the test.

 

Solid ideas, no matter how seemingly successful are just that:  Ideas.   Show that it will

work and the people will come.     

[Shane Land]

I would also suggest constructing a link analysis/social network chart. This provides a good idea of who is connected to whom and how and it will compliment your other efforts. Plus, it provides you a lay of the land with pictures, log entries, etc. and it may assist tremendously on uncovering the trafficking pipeline into Nikiski.

No doubt you care, no doubts at all.

Shane

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: 'ray southwell' via Alaska Citizens Militia

Sent: 6/14/2015 9:41
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] What About Bad Cops?

Shane,

Allow me to answer your second question first. In October of 2013 the "Nikiski Community Council was asked to sponsor a fact finding committee on what the problems are, and make recommendations to address property crime and promote long-term safety of residents."

There report was finished on January 26, 2015 and a summary was sent to Assemblyman Wayne Ogle on February 2, 2015.

In part it states- "The Community of Nikiski has a drug problem that fuels a property crime problem."

Norm was on the committee for 8 months (Met weekly) and supported the conclusions and recommendations.

Perhaps he can tell you how the conclusion were determined.

My plan is simple but risky. Drug users are community members who frequent the dealers home to purchase the products. Supply and demand. Depending on the drug used addiction rates are around 10%. Much as the same with alcohol use. But just like illegal alcohol, illegal drugs generate great sources of income and the users wants more bang for the buck. 

Not all users are addicts and crooks. They support their recreational habits while working and holding down jobs. 

The Deacons for Defense will be an armed neighborhood watch. We will take pictures and license plates of the dealers customers. Sharing the information with the police and the community. The recreational user will move to another dealer to keep safe from exposure.

The dealers revenue stream will decrease. I believe their response will be simple. Move out of the community. Move to one where their economic success can return.

There was a time I cared about my nation and Alaska. But the people accept the status quo with the money in their pockets. I have accepted the only thing left is to serve my community for the sake of the children.

Ray  

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 8:52 AM, Shane Land <lshan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray,

What would be your plan to interrupt the financial success of the drug dealers?  Being that money is the motivating factor for the drug dealers, what about the motivating factor of demand from the drug users?  You discuss the economic factor in your proposal, what of the economic factor of supply and demand?  How would you propose to disrupt this?

I was also wondering a bit about the crime statistics that are specifically related to the drug problem.  What statistical data do you have that supports a rise in criminal activity that specifically relates to drugs/narcotics in Nikiski (other than there being drug dealers obviously)?

Shane

[Shane Land]

Norm,

I agree.  Ideas are just that until they are put into motion.  The questions here are, which idea is the BEST idea that everyone involved agrees upon?  What is the official plan and plan for collaterals?  Target date for implementation of plan (go hot date)?   What is the damage control plan?  And, what is the worst case scenario planning if the people do not follow or like what is being done?  

 

You are right, someone has to take the lead as your community cannot wait for threes years.  I do not agree that at this time that any type of direct action is necessarily the best course of action.  I do like Ray's idea of collecting intelligence in the which could lead eventually to actionable intelligence at some point.

The people may follow, although hesitantly, after a series of successful interventions but this following may very well be intervention and social status dependent.  I am not certain about Nikiski, as I have never been there, but if it is like other places I have lived in Alaska, the generation rule is likely to come into play.  I would certainly believe that contingency planning for this must be incorporated into overall planning and efforts.

Just some of my thoughts.  Going kayaking with the kids now and will be back later.

Shane

[Norm Olson]

While the property crime problem, fueled by the drug trade, was listed as

the priority issue that promoted the plan to establish a police presence in

Nikiski, there were other issues shared by community members.

    Nikiski is like many rural communities, but unlike native villages who

have the power and authority to establish Village Safety Officers. 

The village of Nikiski is left to depend on the State Troopers who are

40 minutes away and who do not provide the policing services THE

PEOPLE feel necessary.    Property crimes are seldom investigated.

There is no quick response to threats at the two schools. Drug dealers

keep returning to the community even though they are known.

     IT WAS THE PEOPLE who decided that a police force would provide

the answers.   And, IT WAS THE PEOPLE, through their Community

Council's democratically established self-governance that called for

and has promoted the idea of a police force.    Personally, I am against

a police force, but my time spent on the special committee was needed

to play "devil's advocate" to raise the many concerns of worried

residents.   I heard from many who opposed the idea of a police force

for various reasons and tried to be supportive to their concerns.

    It would do well to remember that "perception is never reality."   What

people "gather" and what they hear and talk about isn't necessarily fact.

When 400 people gathered last year and 80 percent of those raised their

hand when asked if they or their neighbor had been a victim of property

crime, it started the ball rolling.

    Nobody is forcing this ordinance on the people.  We've all had ten

years to discuss the issue (it was tried back in 2004, but failed to

get the votes).   We've had this past year to listen to input and to talk

with residents.   Every meeting has been public and residents were

encouraged to come to share their point of view.   Sadly, over the last

nine months, with open meetings every Thursday, less than a

half-dozen residents showed the interest to even visit one of our

meetings.

    There will be another opportunity to give testimony on the 16th, when

the Borough Assembly will take up the question of whether to put the

ordinance on the ballot for October.   How many do you suppose will be

there to oppose the Ordinance to establish a police department in Nikiski?

 

Again, IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATE PLAN to rid our community of

crime, AND, to meet the need of fast and reliable security to our schools,

there should be a demonstration of that plan.

 

The proposed Ordinance will cost taxpayers 2.2 million dollars per year.

Is there a better way?   Perhaps, but without a demonstration of an alternative,

people will go with the perception that a police department will be the answer.

 

It may not be.     So where are we now?

[ray southwell]

Yes Norm, it is our elected representatives in Washington that have generated the Orwellian surveillance state and massive militarization of our police. All on borrowed money. Democracy in action. All based on the people's fear and lack of faith.

As for having a meeting. Great idea. Just like the meeting I called for back in April of 1994. Meeting on my land to establish the first militia that evolved to become known as the Michigan Militia. Or the meeting I called for in the summer of 1994. Held in the Community College in Petoskey to explain why the need for establishment of militias. Or the meeting with other employees where I worked to discuss working conditions in 2008, 2009, 2010. Those meetings and my public exposure of working conditions led to my illegal firing. So the judge said. Or the meeting we had to establish the Alaska Citizens Militia.

I think I will have a public meeting. It is in my nature to stand for my ideas and against evil.

You are correct without people of courage and faith my ideas for safety will not be accomplished. Only time and experience will determine that. I never look at the odds of success. I just march forward. I want to see how great my God is.

Ray

[Norm Olson]

It has been said that ideas need landing gear as well as wings, for without

it ideas are nothing more than dreams.

 

Without the effort, the Michigan Militia would have died in the woods along with

the smoky fire.   However, it was an idea whose time had come and people

were ready to support it.    A public meeting to discuss the LESA idea AS WELL

AS other options is essential.    Your idea has not been "de-railed," because

it has never been put into action or demonstrated to be workable. Show the

community that there is an alternative.   You don't have to sell me....you've got

to convince 4000 of your neighbors.

 

Mark Twain said:   "The man with a new idea is a crank -- until the idea succeeds."

But in order to succeed, it must be implemented, experimented with, and tried.

 

I hope that you'll soon be on the Nikiski Community Action Group facebook site.

Float your ideas and listen closely to the responses.   Ask the 230 subscribers

for their objections and opinions.

 

The debate is good, necessary, and absolutely essential because it will get people

thinking before October.    If you can provide them with a alternative that they can

believe in, you'll do us all a great service.

 

I've already heard dozens of dissenting opinions to the creation of a police force.

But, I've also heard from many residents that they would chose a police force

BECAUSE there are no reliable, sustainable, or long-term solutions to the

problems we face.

 

So, put some "landing gear" on your ideas... The debate must continue.

[ray southwell]

Ideas generate change because people recognize the need to change. But it always takes courage and faith to implement change.

Generally, people are different than 25 years ago. The courage and faith of the past has weakened. Fear is rampant everywhere.

It is not clear to me, whether there are enough individuals to create the Deacons for Defense. But it is difficult to generate discussion when an old friend tells my neighbors I support the illegal activities of vigilante justice. Which is nothing more than terrorist activities.

Reminded me of those who said I supported other terrorist activities. All those lies from the Media, Southern Poverty Law Center and a previous employer.

Still waiting to be  able to discuss all options, for Nikiski, on the Facebook site. As you understand, all ideas must have a marketing plan. This closed group is not about discussing all ideas but to sell the LESA plan to the community. And like all government entities they have deeper pockets to market their plan than individuals can market an alternative.

Ray 

[Norm Olson]

Ray,

 

    Why not start your own Face Book page?  There are 235 members of the Nikiski Community

Action Group who could be encouraged to engage in a discussion.  Others, I'm sure, could be

encouraged to debate the issues. 

 

I would encourage you to begin by setting the record straight concerning the Deacons for Defense. 

I doubt that anyone at the public meeting had ever heard of them.  According to historical writers

the organization was controversial.  Many black leaders of the civil rights movement distanced

themselves from the group.  Why?    Explaining to the community who they were and what they

did should be a first step.   If someone has specifically cited that group as terrorists, you should

correct it.  As I recall, nobody at the meeting a couple weeks ago said that the Deacons for Defense

were either terrorists or vigilantes. Some black historians however have.  What WAS said was

that the community will not support ANY kind of vigilante group.  (In the context, it meant the

militia as well).  But that aside. 

    

   As far as the community is concerned, any armed group, regardless of what it is called, whether

militia, neighborhood watch,  or Deacons for Defense, will be looked at closely.   As I've stated, I am in favor of

the Deacons for Defense because they are armed and chartered to protect the community.  But who

were they protecting it from?  but as much as I support armed community defense, the community

will not support the effort once they do their own research into the movement.   (Google:   Deacons for Defense)  

 

   And don't think for a minute that one critic's voice can defeat a good idea.  With the formation

of the militia, thousands of naysayers proclaimed its illegitimacy in print, on TV, and on the radio.

The first year of the militia's existence was directed toward changing the minds of people.

Of course, it didn't change the general feelings that the militia were indeed vigilantes and

domestic terrorists.  But the militia grew in spite of the tidal wave of public criticism.   You can

remember very well the effort put into changing public opinion, even though it was a lost cause.

 

    First, you must engage the community in dialog and discussion.   Let the voices of the entire

community tell you what they feel.  Again, your idea has not and cannot be "de-railed" by the

voice or voices of critics.  Take it to the people.   If you think that my one opinion holds sway

or the entire community, you're mistaken.   In fact, I've promoted the use of the militia and

vigilance groups, such as the Deacons for Defense, but it didn't fly in the 90s and it isn't

being given much support today.

[ray southwell]

More talk. Just like this site. We all talk and talk about government overreach and few attempt any economic disruption to the current corrupt government. Everybody talking and hoping somebody else will change things.

No, my behavior is always getting involved with active change to problems.

Oh By the Way. My request to join the closed group on Facebook has disappeared.( Nikiski Community Action Group) I requested to join again this morning.

Ray