Are you using a separate SVN client to JDeveloper and why?

[Chris Muir]

This particular post wont apply to all members on this group, only
those who are using JDeveloper and Subversion (SVN) on a day by day
basis.

Previous polls show that SVN is the predominate version control system
used with JDev. As example look to this previous OTN poll:

http://forums.oracle.com/forums/poll.jspa?pollID=254

Those who use SVN will know JDev supplies it's SVN support through the
Java SVNKit. However I happen to know quite a few sites that are
avoiding JDev's SVN integration completely and use a third party
product like Tortoise.

I'd like to put the question in front of members what do you use and
why? - JDev's SVN or a third party SVN client? If you aren't using
SVN built into JDev why? My goal is to drive some discussions around
(if at all) how Oracle could improve their product, and, advise others
of traps (read: bugs) they may get into in the future.

It'd be useful in addressing this question if posters could also
please state their version of JDev and 3rd party product + version.

I'm also mindful that this post will draw more critics of JDev's SVN
integration than people with positive experience (the entirely
annoying nature of the internet). As such I'll put it forward that
while I'm not 100% happy with the JDev SVN integration, there are
certainly bugs and some limitations I've hit in the past and present,
I'm happy enough to continue using it for the time being. If there
are others who are in the same boat please post in the positive too.

For anyone noting a problem which moved you away from JDev's SVN
support, can you state the *specific* issue, not some generalization,
to assist the discussions here please. As the overly dictatorially
moderator, let me say posts along the lines of "JDev sucks" will be
rejected as it doesn't help anybody.

Looking forward to your input with thanks.

CM.

[Jan Vervecken]

hi

I have been using TortoiseSVN for a while now (currently still at
1.6.7).
In JDeveloper 10g I have never tried any kind of source control
integration, mainly because I was happy using TortoiseSVN next to
JDeveloper (and also because of "hearsay" about negative experiences
with the integration so that I didn't even try it).

In JDeveloper 11g (11.1.1.2.0 and 11.1.1.3.0) I have been using some
of the Subversion integration together with TortoiseSVN. That is, it
is "enabled" to allow JDeveloper to assist with the Subversion related
aspects of "refactoring", but when I commit I use TortoiseSVN because
it gives (to my opinion/experience) a better overview of the changes
made and it allows to examine the differences per file (to determine
what has really changed) more easily.

So, since I have not really used many aspects of the JDeveloper
Subversion integration I can't point to specific issues, except maybe
the one in the forum post "Pending Changes (Subversion) : Refresh
(All) default"
at http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=1059639

regards
Jan Vervecken

[Angelica Hernandez]

i use others svn clients  because i have to many repositories and to many branches  for each hint release in my current project

AH

2010/9/9 Chris Muir <chris...@gmail.com>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF Enterprise Methodology Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send email to adf-methodolo...@googlegroups.com

All content to the ADF EMG lies under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/).  Any content sourced must be attributed back to the ADF EMG with a link to the Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology).

[Harry van Oosten]

Hi,

I'am using Toroise as a client. Beside of little bugs and limitations I found the plug-in slowing Jdeveloper, but maybe this is just a "feeling" and can also be contributed to the repository.

More importantly I don't like the interface I think it's unpleasant because of the little overlay icons that are not very clear.

Thats anything I got to say about it. I think a better solution would be a clarifying explorer view/tab instead of little overlays over little icons.

Kind Regards,

Harry

[alex font]

Hi Chris

In my team and clients we use a Tortoise for the following reasons:

*Tortoise is fast and simple (integrates with the filesystem)

*the client of JDeveloper is very heavy and slow.

Also in earlier versions(10g) had many bugs.

For small projects is fine but when you're in big projects notes much the bad performance and slow

Regards

fetishcode.wordpress.com

---

De: Chris Muir <chris...@gmail.com>
Para: ADF Enterprise Methodology Group <adf-met...@googlegroups.com>
Enviado: jue,9 septiembre, 2010 06:57
Asunto: [ADF EMG] Are you using a separate SVN client to JDeveloper and why?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF Enterprise Methodology Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send email to adf-methodology+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[Anthony Yulo]

Been using Jdeveloper 10.1.3.3 and Tortoise. because there is no way we can add/remove svn properties inside Jdeveloper-SVN.

Is this feature already included in Jdev 11g?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF Enterprise Methodology Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send email to adf-methodolo...@googlegroups.com

[John Stegeman]

Hi Chris,

With 10g, I was using the command-line SVN client (GUI, who needs
GUI); I had the SVN extension installed and used it only as a
mechanism to see revision numbers on files and to see which files had
local changes. In 11g, the JDev support is much improved - I really
like the visual merge capability; now I use a mix of JDev native
capability and the command line, simply because old habits die hard (I
still prefer SQL Plus to SQL Developer, and have VI installed on
Windows). I guess that there is nothing preventing me from using JDev
exclusively, but it's just out of habit. I can say, however, that
other team members (old Forms developers) who are not used to SVN much
prefer JDev or Tortoise in order to have a GUI - learning SVN seems to
be much easier if you have a visual client rather than using the
command line.

J

[Aziz Acar]

JDev 10.1.3 and Tortoise 1.4.8
Was originally using JDev-SVN and removed it one day as I suspected
that it may be the cause of <XYZ>ViewImpl.java & <XYZ>ViewRoImpl.java
files showing up in weird locations in the Jdev Applications
Navigator.
Anyhow, I was then blessed with JDeveloper failing to re-offer me the
tool (via 10.1.x updates), I guess it had already deemed it installed
and didn't have any record of it being uninstalled.
So thought "oh well time to use Tortoise instead" and haven't looked
back coz the improved performance was easily noticeable.

Regards, AA

[Sandra Muller]

I'm using JDev 11g release 1 (11.1.1.2.0) with separate TortoiseSVN
1.6.2.
I've disabled the SVN integration in JDev for similar reasons as the
others: slows down JDev and not as user friendly as Tortoise.
I have tried for a while using the JDev SVN integration (with an 11g
version, though it might have been an earlier release than
11.1.1.2.0), and was hoping for additional functionality to
TortoiseSVN like adding new java files to subversion as opposed to
leaving them unversioned. But that didn't happen, and I didn't really
see any advantages above using Tortoise, only disadvantages.
I did not see the visual merge that John Stegeman mentioned, maybe
that is an advantage of JDev SVN that I didn't notice (but John does
not use Tortoise, and Tortoise has nice visual merge too).

On our project we did do some integration between JDev and Tortoise
through the external tools facility.
You can use this to add Tortoise SVN commands to the right-click menu
of your application files:

•Executable: C:\Program Files\TortoiseSVN\bin\TortoiseProc.exe
•Arguments for Blame command: /path:${file.path} /notempfile /
command:blame /startrev:1 /endrev:-1

Change "/command:blame" to "/command:log" to invoke the Show Log
functionality. Other useful commands are revert and add. See
http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-automation.html#tsvn-automation-basics
for other options.

kind regards,
Sandra

[Aino]

Hi,

Actually I'm using both. I'm really used to TortoiseSVN and I love the way it works.

However, in my opinion, integration of an scm in an IDE is essential for development. This is especially the case when it comes to refactoring and the creation of new objects. The IDE 'knows' what changes have been made and how to handle them for subversion. When using an external client, this responsibility lies with the developer and can lead easily to errors. For example, when you move an object, an external client will notice a new file and a missing file and you have to manually remove the missing file, something that will regurly go wrong, especially when you do an update first. In addition you'll loose the history of that file.

That said, the subversion client in JDeveloper has gone a long way. Especially in earlier versions, the functionality was limited and an extra client like TortoiseSVN was necessary. And because the svn version in older JDeveloper versions was not up-to-date, it resulted in incompatibily issues with a newer external client.
Currently, the svn support in JDeveloper is much better, and I especially like the integration with the local history. But there are still some issues. One of them is the 'pending changes', that doesn't always seem to be up-to-date and include all the files (note that the TortoiseSVN integration in Windows explorer has issues with the icons not representing the actual state). Another is the credentials, when using JDeveloper it seems that my TortoiseSVN credentials are not valid anymore. And currently, I'm working on a versioned project, but JDeveloper doesn't fully recognize it as such. It displays a connection, but doesn't allow me to update or other do other svn commands. I didn't have time to investigate the problem so I'm not sure what's going on. 
I'm also confused by the way JDeveloper performs actions at the project level. With TortoiseSVN, I do a lot svn actions (log, check modifications, update, commit) at project level, that affect all the content in the subdirectories. But with JDeveloper when you do that, it only affects the jpr file and I haven't find a way to get the same behaviour.

And I'd really like an update of previous JDeveloper versions to the latest svnkit (although it can be done manually as I pointed out in one of my blogs), because it's not always possible to upgrade to the latest JDeveloper.

Since I'm so used to TortoiseSVN it's difficult to change old habits and fully convert to JDeveloper, especially when things work differently as expected. But that certainly doesn't mean to not use the JDeveloper svn client at all and even disable it. I think that's a very bad practice. For me, I've always used both tools side-by-side and I'm happy they do without much issues. While working with JDeveloper I regularly discover new (svn) features which I happily adopt in my way of working.
In addition, I'm interested to participate in improving the svn experience in JDeveloper.


Ciao
Aino

[susan duncan]

Hi All,

It's great to see this discussion thread here. I don't want to comment on every response as it comes in but believe me, I will be monitoring and taking note of all your comments. But, as this is the beginning of the discussion I'll offer some feedback -

Our SVN integration team is always striving to improve the product - through eradicating bugs, providing better GUI (I notice the comments on the merge, thank you) and providing additional functionality. We are not able to backport new feature sets so if you are able to move to a newer JDeveloper� you will notice improvements - for instance there is full svn property support in 11g.

Each JDeveloper New Features document lists the improvements and you can also get information from John Stegeman's ADF Essentials series of papers and my blog

There are very few bugs or issues that are raised from yourselves to us - we monitor bugs, OTN forum posts (and answer emails!) - please let me know about bugs and additional functionality that you would like to see

Sandra - do you mean automatically adding new files on creation? There is a preference to do that in Tools -> Preferences -> Versioning -> Subversion -> General

Overlays and labels - you can turn those off - Preferences again

Jan - re refreshing Pending Changes. Apologies, I did take note of this forum post, but forgot to add my thoughts to the thread (which I have now done).

Angelica - I would be interested in hearing more about why having multiple repositories and branches is not possible in JDeveloper. In the 11g release we implemented a number of features to enhance multi branch support including a visual tree hierarchy viewer

Aino - when you have the time I'd like to explore your problems on your current project

Performance: Inevitably there is an overhead to having an SVN client integrated into JDeveloper. But we think that this overhead is outweighed by the convenience and functionality of having the integration of the tool in your IDE - rather than another tool running. We try to minimize that overhead - hence not doing full refreshes with the repository unless necessary (rather using the file system to establish changes to files etc). One very expensive operation is refreshing the Incoming window of Pending Changes. The frequency of this can also be set using Preferences, by default it is 15 minutes, but this may not be appropriate in your environment. If you have specific issues please let me know.

On 09/09/2010 08:22, Sandra Muller wrote:

I'm using JDev 11g release 1 (11.1.1.2.0) with separate TortoiseSVN
1.6.2.
I've disabled the SVN integration in JDev for similar reasons as the
others: slows down JDev and not as user friendly as Tortoise.
I have tried for a while using the JDev SVN integration (with an 11g
version, though it might have been an earlier release than
11.1.1.2.0), and was hoping for additional functionality to
TortoiseSVN like adding new java files to subversion as opposed to
leaving them unversioned. But that didn't happen, and I didn't really
see any advantages above using Tortoise, only disadvantages.
I did not see the visual merge that John Stegeman mentioned, maybe
that is an advantage of JDev SVN that I didn't notice (but John does
not use Tortoise, and Tortoise has nice visual merge too).

On our project we did do some integration between JDev and Tortoise
through the external tools facility.
You can use this to add Tortoise SVN commands to the right-click menu
of your application files:

�Executable: C:\Program Files\TortoiseSVN\bin\TortoiseProc.exe
�Arguments for Blame command: /path:${file.path} /notempfile /
command:blame /startrev:1 /endrev:-1

Change "/command:blame" to "/command:log" to invoke the Show Log
functionality. Other useful commands are revert and add. See
http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-automation.html#tsvn-automation-basics
for other options.

kind regards,
Sandra

On Sep 9, 6:57�am, Chris Muir <chriscm...@gmail.com> wrote:
  

This particular post wont apply to all members on this group, only
those who are using JDeveloper and Subversion (SVN) on a day by day
basis.

Previous polls show that SVN is the predominate version control system
used with JDev. �As example look to this previous OTN poll:

http://forums.oracle.com/forums/poll.jspa?pollID=254

Those who use SVN will know JDev supplies it's SVN support through the
Java SVNKit. �However I happen to know quite a few sites that are
avoiding JDev's SVN integration completely and use a third party
product like Tortoise.

I'd like to put the question in front of members what do you use and
why? - JDev's SVN or a third party SVN client? �If you aren't using
SVN built into JDev why? �My goal is to drive some discussions around
(if at all) how Oracle could improve their product, and, advise others
of traps (read: bugs) they may get into in the future.

It'd be useful in addressing this question if posters could also
please state their version of JDev and 3rd party product + version.

I'm also mindful that this post will draw more critics of JDev's SVN
integration than people with positive experience (the entirely
annoying nature of the internet). �As such I'll put it forward that
while I'm not 100% happy with the JDev SVN integration, there are
certainly bugs and some limitations I've hit in the past and present,
I'm happy enough to continue using it for the time being. �If there
are others who are in the same boat please post in the positive too.

For anyone noting a problem which moved you away from JDev's SVN
support, can you state the *specific* issue, not some generalization,
to assist the discussions here please. �As the overly dictatorially
moderator, let me say posts along the lines of "JDev sucks" will be
rejected as it doesn't help anybody.

Looking forward to your input with thanks.

CM.
    

[John Flack]

I'm rather new to SVN - we use ClearCase a lot, and my first
JDeveloper projects are in ClearCase. I used the ClearCase extension
in JDev 10g, and it was a pain sometimes. ClearCase requires a check
out before you make changes, and JDev 10g tries to proactively check
out any file that you might be changing. For instance, if I go to
make an Application Module configuration change, which only changes
bc4j.xcfg, it checks out the AM's .xml and .java files too, and
sometimes some of the VO files - I don't know why it does that.
ClearCase complains if you try to check in files that have no changes.

My JDev 11g projects are in SVN. I tried TortoiseSVN, and it prompted
me for my repository password every time I did anything - what a
pain. I got rid of it, and have been using JDev's SVN extension
exclusively. The only slowness I see is on the first start up of the
day - bearable. No bugs that I've seen - but then, I haven't
stretched the envelope much. I haven't seen anything I wanted to do
with SVN that I can't do inside JDev. I have two SVN repositories,
one on a corporate server for shared projects, and one on my local PC
for experiments, demos, and creating samples for investigating
problems. All applications are in one or the other repository, never
split. No problem switching between the two.

I'm with Susan - I don't want to have to leave JDev if I don't have
to. I've been evaluating some reporting tools, and none of them work
inside JDev. At least I've been able to add one as an External tool.
SVN doesn't require check out, and tracks what files have changed, so
JDev works much better with SVN. I'm a much happier camper with SVN,
but is that SVN, or is that JDev's SVN extension? I don't care.

On Sep 9, 6:10 am, susan duncan <susan.dun...@oracle.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It's great to see this discussion thread here. I don't want to comment
> on every response as it comes in but believe me, I will be monitoring
> and taking note of all your comments. But, as this is the beginning of
> the discussion I'll offer some feedback -
>
> Our SVN integration team is always striving to improve the product -
> through eradicating bugs, providing better GUI (I notice the comments on
> the merge, thank you) and providing additional functionality. We are not
> able to backport new feature sets so if you are able to move to a newer

> JDeveloper  you will notice improvements - for instance there is full

> svn property support in 11g.
>
> Each JDeveloper New Features document lists the improvements and you can
> also get information from John Stegeman's ADF Essentials

> <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/adf/adf-essentials-098792....>
> series of papers and my blog <http://www.susanduncan.blogspot.com/>

[Luc Bors]

Some years ago I have been working with  JDev's SVN integration. That was during an ADF 10.1.3 project. I ran into some issues that made me decide to use Tortoise. Tortoise works very well for me and this is the main reason that I never tried the JDev SVN integration since.

I usually advice parties new to ADF and JDev to use Tortoise as well and I have to admit that this is merely based on sentiment and not on knowledge of the current status of the integrated SVN support.

Luc

[Jean-Marc Desvaux]

Hi Chris,

Our developers are using JDev 11.1.1.3.0, one use TortoiseSVN (GUI),
another one use subversion client (CLI) from package available from
official Ubuntu dist (tigris/apache).

They are used to these clients and when they tried JDev's SVN
integration in 10g and 11.1.1.1 they did not insist for no good
reasons apart the mentioned refresh issue and the fact that you don't
see all files that have been changed in JDev compared to other clients
and sometime it's good to see these changes.

I've asked them to try to use JDev's SVN as their primary SVN client
together with their current client a bit like SqlDeveloper &
sqlplus....
We will contribute eventually on any bad or good experience.

JMD

[Chad Thompson]

The only 'external' tool I use with SVN is the command line SVN client itself.  I can't really pinpoint a reason 'why' other than a greater familiarity with the command line and the Linux Diff/Mac OS X OpenDiff tools.

I've recently introduced SVN to a team that is still rather new at SVN and have encouraged them to use the JDeveloper integrations for all of the work that they have done.  I still lean on the command line client for a few operations, but it's more out of familiarity/productivity than it is a lack of functionality in JDeveloper.

- Chad

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Chris Muir <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd like to put the question in front of members what do you use and
why? - JDev's SVN or a third party SVN client?  If you aren't using
SVN built into JDev why?  My goal is to drive some discussions around
(if at all) how Oracle could improve their product, and, advise others
of traps (read: bugs) they may get into in the future.

[Andrejus Baranovskis]

We are using JDev 11g PS2 SVN client and quite happy. In latest release JDev SVN performance is improved.

 

Not using Tortoise SVN, because it is not aware about ADF metadata files. For example, you can't revert VO implementation class together with VO XML file.

 

Regards,

Andrejus

--
Oracle ACE Director

My Blog - http://andrejusb.blogspot.com/
My JDev/ADF Samples list - http://andrejusb-samples.blogspot.com/

[Donovan Sherriffs]

Hi,

We use JDeveloper 11g (11.1.1.3.0) and TortoiseSVN 1.6.8.

I have found that due to the project structure we have it is eaiser to
use the tortoise for changes that span multiple projects.
Also I have not found a nice way to rollback changes to a version in
JDev.

Thanks Donovan

[florin pop]

I use TortoiseSVN... it's Explorr Integrated. And it seams much manageble than JDev 

2010/9/9 Chris Muir <chris...@gmail.com>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF Enterprise Methodology Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send email to adf-methodolo...@googlegroups.com

All content to the ADF EMG lies under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/).  Any content sourced must be attributed back to the ADF EMG with a link to the Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology).

--
This message is intended only for the original recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

[Nathalie Roman]

We use tortoise separatly from Jdeveloper as well for the same reasons
fellow developers already mentioned such as latency in Jdeveloper and
less functionality.

Kind regards,
Nathalie

[Marcos Ortega]

Idem;

       Marcos Ortega
  Analista de Sistemas
   Campo Grande - MS
http://www.santoandrea.com.br

2010/9/9 Donovan Sherriffs <dsher...@gmail.com>

[jayaram nagarajan]

Hi All,

We use mostly JDev 11g with SVN and then have tortoise as well as a secondary tool and use it for export /overcome some bugs in Jdev integration with SVN.