One year without an ADF release

[Regee Chacko]

Hello Oracle,
When is Oracle going to come up with the next release of JDeveloper. It's been a long wait of one year. What are the chances of a more stable and less resource hungry JDeveloper?
Regee

[John Flack]

Of course, Oracle employees are not permitted to say when releases are scheduled.  All the ADF product managers at K'Scope  would say is, "Yes there is a release planned." and they IMPLIED, but did NOT PROMISE that it would probably be within a year from now.  They also said that some sort of major product announcement would be made TODAY, but my impression was that it would be in the MAF or Cloud development area, not JDeveloper/ADF.

[Petros Mikos]

+1 on that question

I have had more crashes with Jdeveloper 12.1.3 than 12.1.2 (despite it fixed some issues like refreshing of drop downs, etc.)

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[Florin Marcus]

I  work regularly with different versions of JDeveloper across different applications: Release 1 (11.1.1.7.0),  Release 2 (11.1.2.4.0)  to the last Jdeveloper 12c (12.1.3.0.0). No doubt, every upgrade brought new bugs along with fixing the old ones, but the major gain after each upgrade - even more important than the new features, imo -  was the productivity boost.  I dare saying I am about 30% more productive with the newest version (12c) than I am with oldest one (11g R1).

Sure, Jdeveloper 12c is 'slower by default', but with some minimum configuration I can get it working pretty fast, even on large workspaces.

[John Flack]

So here is a link to today's announcement. https://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressrelease/comprehensive-cloud-platform-062215.html.

[John Flack]

[Chris Muir]

Thanks to John for publishing the link. You beat me by about 23 seconds ;-)  In my defence the public announcement was 1am my time.

https://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressrelease/comprehensive-cloud-platform-062215.html

For our entire FMW customer base today Oracle is officially announcing a wide range of PaaS offerings, including several that will be of interest to the FMW audience: Integration Cloud Service (ICS), Mobile Cloud Service (MCS) and Process Cloud Service (PCS).  Yep, a whole bunch of new products and acronyms for you to track ;-)

For my team, that is Grant Ronald's Product Management team who are tasked with enabling customers to successful use our products as fast as possible, we're happy to say on the day 0 release of Oracle Mobile Cloud Service, we are also delivering online free training for Oracle Mobile Cloud Service via our Oracle Mobile Platform channel - http://bit.ly/oramobilesub.

I know I'm taking a bit of a liberty on posting to the ADF EMG group about this, but you know, I did help set the group up so I have some spare credits I figure, and I'm hoping our team's track record on providing worthwhile training to customers speaks for itself and you'd like to know about this.

Shay is about to follow up on a post about the next JDev version availability, stay tuned.

Chris Muir - Oracle Product Management

On 23 June 2015 at 07:53, John Flack <Jo...@smdi.com> wrote:

So here is a link to today's announcement. https://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressrelease/comprehensive-cloud-platform-062215.html.

[Shay Shmeltzer]

We are working on JDeveloper/ADF 12.2.1 right now, it's planned to be released along with other components of FMW 12.2.1.

As for timing, our legal department only allows us to say "in the next 12 months".

But as a side note, OOW SF is in October and we do like to have new things to talk about :-)

While we hadn't had an ADF release this year, we did update the MAF parts, which also added features to JDeveloper.

For quality issues, please work with Oracle support to get issues tracked so we can fix them. Also, for some issues you can request one-off patches to your JDeveloper version.

[Raed Turkmani]

This is actually a very important question as more of developers are build with "light weight frameworks" including Angular js, Bootstrap. Will Oracle create a lightweight javascript framework since ADF is so bloated?

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From: Regee Chacko <regee...@gmail.com>
To: adf-met...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: [ADF EMG] One year without an ADF release

Hello Oracle,
When is Oracle going to come up with the next release of JDeveloper. It's been a long wait of one year. What are the chances of a more stable and less resource hungry JDeveloper?
Regee

[Gijith Thomas George]

For the past few months we are waiting on the hope that oracle will release a new version and we can safely move from 11g.
Gijith

[John Flack]

There are actually two answers to that question.

Answer one: At KScope on Sunday, Brian Fry of Oracle showed us a new web-based development tool that Oracle has been working on, which generates HTML5 and JavaScript.  It will be available as Software as a Service.  It seems aimed at power users rather than developers (which means to me that developers will wind up using it) and seems a little limited, but DOES have a lot of the drag and drop ease of development as in JDev.  Its data source is web services rather than an ADF-like Model project, so you still might use JDev to create those underlying web services.

Answer two: ADF Faces (and JSF in general) separates the components from the rendering engine.  That means that theoretically, Oracle can change the rendering engine so that ADF Faces renders as HTML5 and JavaScript, without us having to change our applications.  Beyond theory, my understanding is that some of the newest components are rendered that way already.

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 6:07:27 PM UTC-4, rturkman wrote:

This is actually a very important question as more of developers are build with "light weight frameworks" including Angular js, Bootstrap. Will Oracle create a lightweight javascript framework since ADF is so bloated?

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From: Regee Chacko 

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:00 PM

Subject: [ADF EMG] One year without an ADF release

[Shay Shmeltzer]

What specifically do you consider "bloated" in ADF?

One thing to keep in mind is that ADF covers not just the UI/binding layer (which is what most JS framework cover) but also the whole business services and database access layer, in addition to security and customization across the layers.

As mentioned Oracle does venture into JavaScript based development in some cases and some products, and we'll be providing more information at OOW this year.

But, for those looking for Oracle to provide a JavaScript framework, one question is what specific capabilities are you missing in existing JavaScript frameworks that are already out there? What specific value do you want Oracle to bring to this space? Why should Oracle provide its own JS framework?

Is it just that you need a framework that will be supported in the long term and not suddenly switch the whole development approach the way that Angular did recently?

Or is it something else?

[Wilfred van der Deijl]

I would love for Oracle to put its support and power behind a javascript framework. Building one from scratch seems like a craze idea but supporting an existing one seems more feasible. AngularJS seems a likely candidate. It's controller focused, structured and component based way of working fits well with the ADF mindset. The combination of AngularJS and Oracle could bring a number of benefits that are hard to achieve with plain ADF:

• Use of the same programming model for on-device mobile, mobile browser, tablet, and desktop. Oracle tried this with ADF Mobile but with the rebranding and changes to MAF the differences with ADF only grow. You can't take your big ADF pages and code and run it on mobile.
• Modern UI frameworks are truly responsive; they adapt to the screen size even while resizing the browser. This can only work if the layout management and rendering is handled by the javascript/css client and is less reliant on server side rendering as with ADF.
• ADF is a very powerful framework for building transactional enterprise applications, hence the A in its name. It is less suitable for public facing high volume web sites and applications. Those use cases need full control over the URL and html content for SEO and other purposes. Also making a server side statefull framework like ADF scale for tens of thousands of concurrent users can be a real challenge. Let alone things like google bot hitting a million public URLs a day without something like a session cookie so creating a million server side ADF sessions. I've been there....
• Sure we could go for any of the hip javascript frameworks without Oracle's "blessing". But having (lifetime) support from a company like Oracle can be very important and a unique selling point at boardroom level.
• Oracle has just launched Mobile Cloud Service which perhaps should have been named API Cloud Service. It's core feature is offering REST/JSON APIs with all the added benefits of security, storage, etc. These APIs can not only be consumed by mobile apps, but also mobile/tablet browser apps and desktop browser apps. Having a great Oracle API Cloud Service with a fully supported javascript client stack is a great sell to customers.
• Oracle could add a number of unique extensions to angularJS aimed at enterprise customers. Think about things like security or perhaps customisation and personalisation.
• Oracle could bring its great set of DVT and ADF Faces, which are already heavy on javascript, to the angularJS ecosystem.
• Oracle enterprise customers love the single vendor concept; having a full javacript development stack allows Oracle to cross-sell it all in one bundle with Mobile (or API) Cloud Service, full Fusion Middleware, SOA Suite, ExaLogic, etcetera.
• Another reason customer like the single-vendor concept is that they know there is a single vendor where they can ask/complain when things go wrong. Having Oracle Support answer both your weblogic, database, and angularJS questions is a very powerful argument, especially at the boardroom level.

This post is not aimed at bashing ADF. It is a very powerful framework for enterprise applications and has some unique features like strong security and customisation which is a great feature for ISV's. ADF is here to stay and Oracle support it for the very long feature, if only because of Fusion Apps. But there are things that ADF is not very well suited for that can be achieved with client-side javascript frameworks. It would be great if we could also add the javascript stack option to our Oracle ecosystem.

[Florin Marcus]

Though not well enough advertised, ADF do comes with a powerful Javascript API.

 Every ADF Rich Faces component has a Javascript object equivalent. Lately, I find myself  using  the ADF Javascript  API  more often,  though while it works beautifully for lot of cases, I do see the need of making that Javascript API more powerful.

But going further than that it would mean dropping JSF and perhaps ADF BC and this means a brand new framework.

In terms of using ADF for  public facing web sites, I cannot think of a worse idea: ADF was designed for  Desktop-Like applications experience, making use of a thick stateful business layer - the opposite of how a website should be. And this is perfectly fine, ADF fits well with its purpose, I find it very productive, if used correctly.

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[Wilfred van der Deijl]

I agree that there is a sweet spot were ADF is the perfect fit. But there is a whole bunch of use cases where ADF is not the perfect fit and the world seems to move to a javascript stack for those. Would be great if Oracle also jumps on this bandwagon so it can cover all use cases, including the ones were ADF is not the best fit. 

[Eric van Mourik]

Could not agree more with Wilfred's statements.

I think it's all about: “ADF is a very powerful framework for enterprise applications ... But there are things that ADF is not very well suited for that can be achieved with client-side javascript frameworks."

When discussing something hip & happening (like the client-side frameworks nowadays) versus something more mature (ADF/server-side frameworks) the focus tends to be on the first one's emerging features and the last one's known limitations. It takes some serious time spent with the new kid to learn that he also has some shortcomings. And to appreciate the old man's unique characteristics (again). I think it's called disillusion and nostalgia in real life. In software development it's just a matter of new insights and "no silver bullet".

So, the question "Should we use a client-side or a server-side framework for enterprise development?" might most likely be answered with; "It depends..." On the use case, on the enterprise, on the infrastructure, on your skills, on your legacy, etc. Even on future developments we cannot be aware of jet.

In my opinion, enterprise development will always stay hybrid. Within the JDeveloper/ADF stack, Oracle addresses this hydrid nature of enterprise development with the "Productivity with Choice" paradigm. From an enterprise development point of view, adding a client-side based view/controller option to the "choices" will be an attractive route. This would mean stability, evolution paths, long time support and conservation of current investments. Exactly what enterprises are looking for when distinguishing between a (commercial) framework and the many (open source) alternatives.

From a marketing point of view, I think the current portfolio of Oracle's development tools, frameworks and accompanying acronyms is getting somewhat diffuse. I'm pretty sure that's confusing decision makers and occasionally even drives them into the arms of other vendors with less powerful or complete offerings.

Regards,

Eric

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[Andreas Koop]

>> Shay writes "But, for those looking for Oracle to provide a JavaScript framework, one question is what specific capabilities are you missing in existing JavaScript frameworks that are already out there? What specific value do you want Oracle to bring to this space? Why should Oracle provide its own JS framework?"

Well, I think for the same reason ADF has been created long time ago. It puts together all available parts from the Java EE ecosystem to a full stack development framework for RIAs with great IDE Support. Plus it extends Java EE where appropriate. i.e. Taskflows. 

With all arising JS-Frameworks nowadays things are even worse compared to the time many Java Web Frameworks had been created. Today the lifetime of most JS-Frameworks is not longer than 1y.  Having some framework from a big vendor like Oracle would be a great benefit to fullfill current upcoming requirements for web apps, like offline-first, reactivity!

Further. The architecture of web apps tends to move for client-server (client:JS app in browser, Server: provides HATEOAS REST-Services), apps. So it looks like the way we are going to build (web) applications might change in future. We will see. I am looking forward to OOW15 :)

Regards

Andreas

[Luc Bors]

Hi all,

For those of you who missed it, at the ODTUG KScope conference in June, Oracle showed a great demo of ABC Service (Applications Builder Cloud Service).

This enables you to "declaratively" develop JS Applications. I recorded some of that demo. It is available on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/2CMjJbPQotY
And
https://youtu.be/HAkBn-vc6T8

The ABCs is not available yet as you can see here https://cloud.oracle.com/ApplicationBuilder

As Andreas said, I am also looking forward to OOW15 :-)

Luc

Op 20 aug. 2015 12:06 AM schreef "Andreas Koop" <a.ko...@gmail.com>:

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[Regee Chacko]

I had started this topic almost 3 months back and from the posts it is obvious people are looking forward for an update.
Now it seems Oracle is also ashamed of the progress. They have removed the section from the Jdeveloiper Home page where it shows that last update was in June 2014 :-)
This complete silence from Oracle makes us think whether we made a wrong choice in investing our resources in learning this tool.

Regee

[Shay Shmeltzer]

Regee,

Maybe I should have clarified that I work for Oracle as Director of Product Management for ADF (and other development tools and frameworks).

I replied to your thread on June 22nd with information on ADF 12.2.1.

I was also the one who removed the "news section" from the OTN page because updating it in the frequency I wanted is hard to do on OTN right now (involve downloading and updating manually HTML pages). I find that the twitter and Facebook feeds for JDeveloper/ADF are much more reflecting of what's going on in the ADF community.

See for example - https://twitter.com/jdeveloper and http://facebook.com/JDeveloper

Rest assure that work on ADF 12.2.1 is progressing as planned, if you want to see more demos and learn about what's new in this release don't miss the OOW session - 

• Oracle Application Development Framework and Oracle JDeveloper—What’s New and How to Use It [CON8333]

Shay

[Lovin Joy Varghese]

Appreciate the clarification shay. Kool!!

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[sashank pappu]

HI Shay , 

 Can you please let us know the strategy on Oracle ADF in future scope as i dont see much customers using ADF when they have many Open Source Frameworks to work on . One more thing to worry is the Fusion Apps ,Cloud based applications  are completely prebuilt and has very less scope for developer to design the customization s . How is ADF used in this space of Fusion Apps for developers.

Can you please also put some light on Application Builder for Cloud and how is it different from ADF and what is its statergy when compared with ADF. 

Thank you,
Sashank P.

Thank you,

Sashank P.

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[Jernej Kaše]

Actually fusion apps are designed to be heavily customisable and extensible. The idea is for partners to develop custom extensions and deploy them to Java cloud for saas extensions. Of course integration is not on the jar level, but through web services and iframes; that said, to deliver the native user experience, ADF is the tool of choice.

[Shay Shmeltzer]

In terms of strategy for Oracle ADF we continue to focus on providing a fast way to build server side Java apps in a more declarative and visual approach while adopting new technologies in a seamless way into the framework.

Specifically as mentioned in Oracle ADF statement of direction (Doc ID 1985782.1 which you can get from Oracle Support Site), two of the focus areas are REST services exposure and consumption, and responsive UI development with ADF Faces. 

For extending Oracle SaaS apps Oracle ADF is a great choice for Java shops - it provides you with the same framework as the rest of the architecture for those apps. We even provide quick start development kits for this. (here is a blog entry published today about sessions related to this at OOW - https://blogs.oracle.com/VOX/entry/if_you_build_it_they )

To learn more about the Oracle Application Builder Cloud Service go to https://cloud.oracle.com/ApplicationBuilder

In general this tool is aimed at what Gartner refers to as "Citizen Developers" - basically power users who are looking for a quick way to build and host web and mobile apps. ADF on the other hand is a tool for Java developers - so the audience for both is different and this leads to many other differences in every other aspect from technology to development experience to capabilities.

Oracle Application Builder Cloud Service is going to be covered in more details in various sessions at OOW - and I'll be happy to further discuss the two tools after people get to see them there and learn more about their aim.

Shay

[John Flack]

Of course, in my long experience in IT, every time a vendor puts out a tool aimed at "power users", we IT professionals wind up having to make it work.  Now that isn't necessarily bad - I'm thinking that APEX started out that way.  The trouble is that to reduce complexity and shorten the learning curve, tools for power users have tended to be missing features that we need to go beyond the simple single table, or simple master/detail application.

ADF has a long learning curve, but it isn't hard to get a simple application up and running.  The virtue is that when you need to go further, ADF has the features to get you there.  May take a while to learn to use these features, but they're there.

[Regee Chacko]

Thanks Shay, for clarifying again. Hopefully awaiting for OOW.
Read your blog today and it seems the wait might be worth it.

Regee