Rule Change proposals

[Paul Veen]

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

[Kyle Benjamin]

1) No argument there

2) Curses! Foiled again!   But seriously…I’m with Paul here too. There is little reason to be awarded a compensatory pick for making a slick roster move. The slick roster move should be compensation enough. 

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[Brent Hamby]

Rule 1 - yay

Rule 2 - yay

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[Kyle Benjamin]

Is there any reason we can’t implement at least Rule 2 this season?

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[Josh Hanson]

I would vote yes to both proposals as well. 

When is the proposed implementation?  

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:07 AM Brent Hamby <brento...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rule 1 - yay

Rule 2 - yay

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

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[Paul Veen]

1 - next year

2 - I'd be open to starting it at this years auction, but if I had to guess, there was at least one move already this offseason that could have been done differently if this rule was in place, so not sure if itd be fair to start this year already or not

Veen

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Josh Hanson <hanso...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would vote yes to both proposals as well. 

When is the proposed implementation?  

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:07 AM Brent Hamby <brento...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rule 1 - yay

Rule 2 - yay

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

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[Josh Hanson]

Multiple deals have already occurred with holdout players this offseason. I think 2018 probably makes the most sense for implementation on both. 

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:13 AM Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

1 - next year

2 - I'd be open to starting it at this years auction, but if I had to guess, there was at least one move already this offseason that could have been done differently if this rule was in place, so not sure if itd be fair to start this year already or not

Veen

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Josh Hanson <hanso...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would vote yes to both proposals as well. 

When is the proposed implementation?  

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:07 AM Brent Hamby <brento...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rule 1 - yay

Rule 2 - yay

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

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[Aaron Watson]

On rule 2, I always interpreted the charter to not allow the trickery that Kyle pulled...

"A $ value of players lost will be determined..."

If Kyle resigns the player, that player hasn't been "lost" and therefore the comp pick wouldn't apply. 

So I obviously agree with the change, I just already thought it was a reasonable way to read the current rule. 

On rule 1, I don't like conditioning this... If a player holds out, the team should control their rights no matter how old they are. We've seen players hold out into an NFL season before (Bosa, Carson Palmer, V Jackson)

I much prefer something that resembles the NFL rule that players are not eligible to renegotiate their rookie contracts until after year three (so no holdouts for players until after year 3). Definitely rewards owners who draft well and encourages building through the draft, but that's how the NFL works. Seahawks built a dynasty because R. Wilson wasn't paid anything as a 3rd round pick. Cowboys can do the same with Dak. 

So I vote no on rule 1. 

Sent from my iPhone

[breslowwb BRESLOW]

Rule 1. I agree with no holdout on rookie players until after season 3.

Rule 2. I don't care

[Brent Hamby]

Here's my problem with changing the rookie holdout rules.

1. I would want this pushed out at least a couple of years.  Changing this drastically changes the impact of the rookie draft.  It also changes how many people would have handled their roster even this off-season.  To me, with the structure of our league I'm honestly not sure there is a totally "fair" point in time that we could even change this rule and not impact a few people.
2. It reduces the trade and player movement activity in the league. 
   
3. It would change the holdout and franchise salaries.

I'm not opposed to the rule, I actually think it should have been in place from the beginning.  I'm just personally not sure you can change it at this point given the age of our league without rebooting.

 

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[Kyle Benjamin]

How would it reduce the impact of the draft or reduce trades?

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[Paul Veen]

Before we go too far off the rails here, we arent currently discussing the holdout rule at all, we are just talking about the Jim rule and comp picks.  

rule 1 has  four yes (veen, kyle, brent, josh), one no (watson) and Bill didnt weigh in on the current discussion

rule 2 has  five yes (veen, kyle, brent, josh, watson)  and one "I dont care" (bill)

[breslowwb BRESLOW]

For #1 put me down as yes

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[Sean Tompkins]

I will say yes for 1 and 2

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[Chris Reiff]

I agree on both

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[barnes.seth]

My votes:

#1 no

#2 yes

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[Jim Gunst]

I say no to 1

I'm aligned to 2

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:15 PM barnes.seth <barne...@gmail.com> wrote:

My votes:

#1 no

#2 yes

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Chris Reiff <reiffc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree on both

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

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[Chris Fauble]

So let's see lot going on 

1. Looks like this passed.  I would have gone with no I think, but whatevs.  My only condition is that I don't have to keep track of whether a player has been in the league for 3 years and thus cannot be Jim ruled.

2. This one passed as well.  Not sure I had opinion either way.  Again as long as I'm not in charge of tracking this that's the key :-) 

Due to roster changes this offseason neither of these rules would go into effect until next offseason.  

(As you can see from above the commish has gotten lazy.  I need a more ceremonial title to represent my reduced role!)

As for Watson's holdout rule thing, I'll leave it up to him to create a new thread.  That one will have to be pushed out a ways though, since people may not have so willing traded their 2018 picks away.  So basically the first rookie class this would apply to is 2019 rookies would not hold out until after their 3rd year in the league (if it passes)

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:15 PM barnes.seth <barne...@gmail.com> wrote:

My votes:

#1 no

#2 yes

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Chris Reiff <reiffc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree on both

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Veen <pwv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would like to propose two new rule changes:

1 - The Jim rule only be used on players in their first three years in the league.  The original intent of this rule was so that you could make sure a young player wasn't a flash in the pan before committing to a long term contract.  Occasionally this rule is used to just keep a veteran player out of the FA pool even though there really isnt much intent on signing them, which I believe goes against the original intent, so just would like to change that. 

2 - Currently, when you allow a holdout to go to auction, you can be eligible for a compensatory pick if that player goes above certain levels (this year, 12.25 for a 2nd round pick and 28 for a 1st round pick).  I propose that you only get the the comp pick if the player isnt signed by the team that allowed him to go into the auction.  For example, Kyle let T.Brady go into the auction last year and he went over the 2nd round mark.  Kyle not only signed his player cheaper than the holdout price, but also got a comp pick for doing so.  I believe it should be one or the other, either sign your own player OR get the comp pick if someone else signs him.  This would mirror the NFL comp pick system more closely, aka, NFL teams dont get picks for resigning their own players either. 

Thoughts?

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