Frightened, incompetent and ignorant riders.

[Ron Richings]

Hey John

Denigrating some bicycle riders as  'frightened, incompetent, and ignorant'  really does nothing to attract new folks to the joys and benefits of travelling by bicycle.

And certainly does nothing to improve the mode share and respect for those who choose to cycle.  Compare the mode shares in Vancouver to those in San Diego to see which approach leads to greater success.  And a greater number of cyclists generates its own safety and 'respect' benefits.

But increasing the bicycling mode share and related benefits of  cycling doesn't seem to be what you are about.  Nor does involving more women and children.  So long as your group of middle-aged (or older) guys gets to macho your way around the city, all is right with the world.  Seems like like a fairly advanced case of testosterone poisoning has taken hold.

Most cyclists, pedestrians and drivers seem to like the separated facilities that have been developed here.  And are using them in large numbers.

More than I can say for San Diego, even though in many ways I like your city.  Comfortable bikeability though is not one of its assets, except for some

areas that are more like Vancouer, eg. the Harbor Bikeway and other 'protected' routes.  Too bad.

Ron

Ron Richings

Vancouver, BC

Canada

 

"Safer and more pleasant"? For those bicycle riders who are frightened, incompetent, and ignorant, sidepaths make them feel much safer while actually aggravating the dangers of crossing and turning traffic. While those cyclists who understand traffic recognize the added dangers, added complications, and degradation of their status as drivers of vehicles.     On 11/27/2017 7:49 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:   -- John Forester, MS, PE Bicycle Transportation Engineer 7585 Church St, Lemon Grove, CA 91945 619-644-5481, fore...@johnforester.com

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[John Forester]

Ron Richings advocates the system that was invented by Motordom for the express purpose of making motoring more convenient by frightening cyclists off the roadways, just as Motordom had earlier frightened pedestrians off the roadways. Motordom knew that motorists' greatest problem with cycle traffic was that it slowed motorists down. That enabled Motordom to then get away with the argument that the greatest danger to cyclists is motor traffic that would have to slow down. And so to argue, and get laws enacted, saying that if a cyclist got in the way of motorists he was likely to be killed. Motordom's argument is false both logically (Think about it. Should the fact that motor traffic can go faster than bicycle traffic give motorists the right to run over cyclists?) and factually. Factually, only 5% of car-bike collisions are caused by same-direction motor traffic, while 95% are caused by turning and crossing movements. Presumably, Richings advocates Motordom's system for bicycle traffic because he believes Motordom's arguments. Presumably, Richings is another of those who are ignorant (meaning they don't know the traffic facts) and frightened (else they would advocate for cyclists instead of for motorist convenience) and, presumably, incompetent when cycling in traffic (if they were competent in traffic they would be vehicular cyclists instead of being cyclist-inferiority advocates).

It should be obvious that Motordom's system removes cyclists from the position of having the rights of drivers of vehicle. Under Motordom's system cyclists don't have the rights of drivers of vehicle; indeed it is difficult to say what rights they have.

 Now look at how Richings presents foolish arguments against my position. Note, carefully, that the distinction I consider is that of understanding how traffic operates according to the rules of the road. "Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles." Richings argues that only middle-aged and older men are able to understand how traffic operates, calling this "testosterone poisoning", while women and children cannot understand how traffic operates and therefore cannot obey the rules of the road. Well, there is no organizational or governmental hindrance to women, as a sex, driving automobiles and trucks. We consider them just as capable as men. As for children, it has been shown that the rules of the road are based on easy-to understand principles, so that learning to obey them (which doesn't mean quoting their words) is no more difficult than learning how to play soccer, or cricket, or baseball, or any of the other popular games played by children.

Richings' problem is that, with a population, including himself, who have been frightened that obeying the rules of the road will kill them, how to encourage bicycle traffic. One way is to encourage people to cycle according to the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles. Effective Cycling was an older way to do this; Cycling Savvy is the current most effective way. The other way is to do just what Motordom wants; advocate for facilities that enable a crude form of bicycle traffic operating on facilities that increase the dangers of turning and crossing movements (95% of car-bike collisions) at much greater expense and difficulty, while denigrating cyclists' rights on the roadway as drivers of vehicles.

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

 

I am late in responding to your earlier posts to me ….   herewith catching up ….

 

In response to ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’ …  https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/12/9/13897078/walkable-vancouver-video

 

John wrote:  "Safer and more pleasant"? For those bicycle riders who are frightened, incompetent, and ignorant, sidepaths make them feel much safer while actually aggravating the dangers of crossing and turning traffic. While those cyclists who understand traffic recognize the added dangers, added complications, and degradation of their status as drivers of vehicles.

 

And in response to Fear narrows the path toward more bicycling?  John wrote:  Neal's vision of using cycling crash analysis to improve the safety of cycling is most unlikely to ever be implemented. Neal, can't blame him, does not know the history of before his time. The task he mentions was done in 1976, the Cross report. But the knowledge thus gained was entirely rejected for two reasons. The first reason is that it disproves the DOT/Motordom policy of cyclist inferiority. The second reason, coming later in time, is that it contradicts the bike activists' policy of cyclist inferiority. 

 

===========================================

 

Responding to John’s familiar prose is fun ….  since John is 88 years old which makes us almost contemporaries  …..   as I go into the most excellent 85-89 age group for triathlons on 1 Jan 2017 ….  to be the new kid on the block … no small advantage when racing  ....

 

At this age (according to the US Census Bureau) we have outlived about ¾ or our cohort now and have about 5 years left ….. if we are average  …. before the grim reaper closes in on one or both of us ….  and we are dead.

 

As John describes it ….   he has “some ‘decrepitude’ of knee, hip, and shoulder that has restricted or eliminated his two-wheel bicycling for some time ….   (John ....to continue please go to ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at 

https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

 

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[John Forester]

This reply does not consider cycling, but my physical condition as introduced by Neal.

I don't have any hip problems. My right knee started giving problems when I was 19 years old. But I did military service, summer mountaineering, winter skiing (including snow camping), folk dancing of many types, cycling all over California, fencing. There was never a diagnosis of why my knee hurt at different times; nothing showed up on any non-invasive examination as new methods were invented. But as my knee's condition deteriorated I had to give up each of the above activities, until all I could do twenty years ago, except cycling, was to shuffle along instead of walking. Then my shoulders grew painful, particularly at the posture required for cycling; the pain became so painful that I could cycle for only a quarter of an hour.

Last spring I shuffled onto a sloping road (I was inspecting a pothole at the steep turn of La Jolla Shores Drive, where a cyclist had crashed.) where my knee became so painful that I could not think of anything else and could neither go up nor down. I got rescued by a motorist. That made me eligible for replacement knee surgery (my physician, when asked, said I may live to one hundred), which surgery was done in July. As soon as you wake up from surgery they hold you standing and trying to walk. My surgery went extremely well; no complications. My son stayed at my house for ten days. After he left I attempted my first outside walk. Half a block on the level, and I felt I had to return, when I fell onto my bed completely exhausted and stayed there for half an hour. I had set my goal on regaining condition for participating in some of the Natural History Museum nature walks, and doing an evening of folk dancing. Three months of walking on level sidewalks with gradually extending length, and one month of walking on trails, often getting to real tiredness where I had to rely on my stick for stability as my legs wobbled. I worried that I had reached the most I could do. Then yesterday I managed to increase my trail distance from 1.0 miles to 1.8 miles, finishing without either pain or exhaustion. That was the best walk I had had in twenty years. Maybe I have persuaded my body to return to proper operation, and I may reach my goals.

On 11/29/2017 8:46 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

 

 

At this age (according to the US Census Bureau) we have outlived about ¾ or our cohort now and have about 5 years left ….. if we are average  …. before the grim reaper closes in on one or both of us ….  and we are dead.

 

As John describes it ….   he has “some ‘decrepitude’ of knee, hip, and shoulder that has restricted or eliminated his two-wheel bicycling for some time …. 

 

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[William D. Volk]

John,

That’s really good news.

I attribute my good knees to quitting American Football at 16 years of age, I was beat out for a starting position by a boy who stood 6’6” and weighed 280lbs :-)  AND the doctor in College who told me I was too large to be a runner without consequences.

William

[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

Good news on your improving health!  Now let's get you on a bike again ....  and your health is all about cycling ....  and cycling is all about your health.

I seem to recall a picture (a few years back) of Serge helping you to get your bike in working order ...  although I am not sure you could ride it at that point.

Now that you are getting bike worthy ....  perhaps a three wheeler ....  so you do not have to do a flying mount or put your leg down when you stop ... or torque your shoulder.

You may not want to take a tricycle out in traffic .... but I see that Church St. joins Buena Vista and only a couple of residential blocks of traffic to negotiate to get to Broadway  ..... and Broadway has some bike lanes.

You could have a nice loop down the Broadway bike lanes and back for as many miles as you feel up to  ..... it would be a good start.

It appears you are pursuing you goals in a measured fashion ....  adding a bit of distance now and then as you get stronger .....  

The key is to be as consistent (every day if possible) taking a rest when you feel you need it.   Being consistent and getting in some exercise each day (even if it is much less than your scheduled workout) is more important than how far or how fast you go.

I know you are a vehicular cyclist .....  but it would be prudent to stay in the bike lanes and out of traffic  .....  especially when you are traveling much slower than the usual bicycle traffic.

I realize that you have not been biking for awhile ... please be aware that a major problem with motorists today is distracted driving ...  looking at their cell phone when driving .....  or doing some other activity in the motorcar  ... 

and not focusing on the road ahead.

As to aging ...  I think your doctor hedged his bet when he said 'you may live to 100'  .....  although if he was right  ... you will be putting some pressure on the balance of our cohort under the Bell Curve gaussian distribution .....  since the 5 year census number is an average. 

....  But no need to guess ....  Go to Amazon and for $99 you can get a much closer and realistic estimate ... 

 https://www.amazon.com/Telomere-Length-Test-Laboratory-Accredited/dp/B06VWHNXTX/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1512093490&sr=8-1&keywords=telomere+test

By looking at your telomere length you can see how many Hayflicks you have left ....   but then you need to factor in your genetic heritage for various old age diseases  ....  and then the probability of various other causes of death.

I am guessing that the North Korean ICBM will be aimed at Mar a Lago rather than San Diego so I am giving that cause of death a small probability ....  unless the North Korean's aim is really bad.

(John please post to the new ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at        https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

Cheers

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[John Forester]

Neal states views about both my mechanical knowledge and my traffic skills.

He claims that I need the assistance of Serge to get a bicycle in working order. Well, the first set of wheels that I built was in 1943. The first bike I purchased for myself (as opposed to being given by my parents) consisted of a frame ordered from a builder in New York and all the other parts ordered from Holdsworth in London, which I assembled myself in 1949. In those days, the supply of parts and services for good bicycles was very thin; cyclists had to be much more self reliant than today. Over the years I did more than most. I brazed up carrier racks for bicycles without such, brazed on many fittings (including mounts for generators and lamps, which I sold), I built several replacement front forks, and I replaced the top tube of my Viking Tour of Britain, which had failed. You can see the quality of my workmanship in replacing that tube, because that bike is on display at the cycling history museum in Davis, CA.

If Neal had read Effective Cycling he would have seen all the maintenance procedures (except brazing) described in detail.

Neal now urges me to start cycling again, now that my knee has been replaced. My knee was never the cycling problem; cycling did it good. My problem is arthritis in the shoulder joints, about which there's not much that can be done. My latest bike was made for me by Rivendell; a lovely bike. A mixte frame (to make mounting and dismounting easier) running on 650B wheels with lightweight tires, 18 speeds half step with granny, controlled by bar-end shifters, carrier rack. It was shipped to me incomplete; I installed the bar end shifters and cabling (and maybe the brake levers and cabling), because I had the otherwise unobtainable parts. But, as I repeat, pain in my shoulder joints made me give up cycling about three years ago, when I gave that bike to my son. It encouraged him to start cycling with a touring club, so it is still giving good service.

But Neal does not know these private details, and he instructs me in restarting cycling, perhaps even with a tricycle. He tells me of the many bike lanes available in Lemon Grove, so that I can ride safely, as if I am afraid of same-direction motor traffic.

If Neal had read Effective Cycling he would have recognized that I have never been afraid of same-direction motor traffic and that I always enjoyed operating in accordance with the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles.

So, Neal's little essay, written as if pontificating from on high, demonstrates only his complete ignorance of cycling affairs and his fear of same-direction motor traffic. His essay demonstrates that he is ignorant, frightened, and incompetent, just those qualities typical of Americans regarding cycling. Those of you who object to my accurate description of the American view of cycling need to recognize that your own spokespeople demonstrate the accuracy of my description.

Given that situation, those Americans who recognize the safety and utility of operating according to the rules of the road, vehicular cycling, need to concentrate on protecting their right to so operate, against the forces of cyclist-inferiority cycling that are largely in control of policy in bicycle transportation.

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[John Forester]

This concerns the cycling portion of Neal's message.

The comparison is in cycling in a typical urban area with streets that cross each other, in one case by obeying the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles (RRDV), and thereby understanding how traffic works, and, in the other case, by cycling on sidepaths, thereby finding that one is fighting traffic wherever it, or the cyclist, crosses or turns, thereby never learning how to operate smoothly in traffic.

The cyclist who obeys the RRDV finds that he fits into traffic and moves just as do the other drivers, in parallel movements together, with reasonable rules for where these streams of traffic cross and turn. The whole system has been worked out through a century of use so that the rough spots, the conflict situations, have been smoothed out. It is true that a few motorists feel that the roads are for motorists only, so they honk and shout about their motorist supremacy ideology, but almost none of them try forceful acts, and when these very few get caught they are prosecuted for criminal assault.

The cyclist who rides in a sidepath system finds that he is involved in right-of-way conflicts with turning and crossing motor traffic, or when he tries to turn himself. Therefore any sidepath system that tries to make cycling safe, in addition to the additional space required for the sidepath, has to add special traffic signals and signal phases to prevent these streams of traffic from colliding with each other. The signals are expensive and the delays that they cause make both motoring and cycling slower.

The supposed advantage of the sidepath system is that it protects cyclists from same-direction motor traffic. It does that, but at the cost of aggravating the causes of car-bike collisions caused by turning and crossing movements. That is, sidepaths protect against the causes of 5% of car-bike collisions, while aggravating the causes of 95% of car-bike collisions. That is why sidepath systems have to have all those additional traffic signals and traffic signal phases, to protect against the added dangers that sidepaths create.

It is quite obvious that the RRDV system is better than the sidepath system.

On 11/29/2017 8:46 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

My invitation to post ot 'Bicycles and Infrastructure' got muddled ...and I cannot find the 'Edit' function here.

I will try the URL again ...  

(John please post to the new ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at        https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure  and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

Cheers.

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[John Forester]

I am not a member of the Bicycles and Infrastructure group. Therefore, I cannot post to it.

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

Bicycles and Infrastructure is a Google Groups forum and works like this one except it is set up for editing your posts after you publish.

Log on and after a couple of hours or so you can post.

Let me know if you have a problem and I will fix it.

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:18:00 PM UTC-8, John Forester wrote:

I am not a member of the Bicycles and Infrastructure group. Therefore, I cannot post to it.

On 12/1/2017 12:41 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

My invitation to post ot 'Bicycles and Infrastructure' got muddled ...and I cannot find the 'Edit' function here.

I will try the URL again ...  

(John please post to the new ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at        https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure  and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

Cheers.

Neal

+1 mph Faster

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[Dan Suchy]

Neal and John,

At this point I would recommend you two start your own forum and just bicker back and forth that way.

-Dan

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 2:45 PM Neal Henderson <nea...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

Bicycles and Infrastructure is a Google Groups forum and works like this one except it is set up for editing your posts after you publish.

Log on and after a couple of hours or so you can post.

Let me know if you have a problem and I will fix it.

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:18:00 PM UTC-8, John Forester wrote:

I am not a member of the Bicycles and Infrastructure group. Therefore, I cannot post to it.

On 12/1/2017 12:41 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

My invitation to post ot 'Bicycles and Infrastructure' got muddled ...and I cannot find the 'Edit' function here.

I will try the URL again ...  

(John please post to the new ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at        https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure  and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

Cheers.

Neal

+1 mph Faster

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-- 
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St, Lemon Grove, CA 91945
619-644-5481, fore...@johnforester.com

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[Serge Issakov]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:57 PM Neal Henderson <nea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I seem to recall a picture (a few years back) of Serge helping you to get your bike in working order ...  

Never happened. Your mind is playing tricks on you. 

Serge

[Neil Schneider]

Why, are you offended? If so, maybe you should unsubscribe. 

On Dec 1, 2017 8:09 PM, "Dan Suchy" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:

Neal and John,

At this point I would recommend you two start your own forum and just bicker back and forth that way.

-Dan

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 2:45 PM Neal Henderson <nea...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

Bicycles and Infrastructure is a Google Groups forum and works like this one except it is set up for editing your posts after you publish.

Log on and after a couple of hours or so you can post.

Let me know if you have a problem and I will fix it.

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:18:00 PM UTC-8, John Forester wrote:

I am not a member of the Bicycles and Infrastructure group. Therefore, I cannot post to it.

On 12/1/2017 12:41 PM, Neal Henderson wrote:

Hello John Forester and All,

My invitation to post ot 'Bicycles and Infrastructure' got muddled ...and I cannot find the 'Edit' function here.

I will try the URL again ...  

(John please post to the new ‘Bicycles and Infrastructure’ group at        https://groups.google.com/group/bicycles-infrastructure  and the Topic ‘Let’s Hear It For Vancouver’.)

Cheers.

Neal

+1 mph Faster

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-- 
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St, Lemon Grove, CA 91945
619-644-5481, fore...@johnforester.com

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello Dan Suchy and All,

Thanks for the feedback ....   I know we are not the only voices here on this website  ....  and I hope John and I are not taking up all the bandwidth.

This is a place where people who love bikes and love to ride them can communicate.  There are increasing numbers of bicycle riders on our roads (that's a good thing) and we frequently do not have to time to be able to meet one, slow down, say hello, and have a conversation  --  so we can chat here.

While John is not riding a bike yet (perhaps we can encourage him to start riding) he is an interesting character that has been a bicycle rider .....  and while he can be abrasive at times ....  his attitude and knowledge is very useful on various forums since he stimulates conversing (posting) to the website ....  with a vigorous exchange of ideas and opinions.

But enough about John and me ...  What do you ride and where do you ride?   How about a picture of your bike?  What is your favorite hobby?  What do you think of Trump?

Do you race?  Are you a commuter?  Do you do group rides?   Roadie or Mountain Bike or CX or eBike or Tri?

Cheers,

Neal

Check out Google Group 'Bicycles and Infrastructure' 

[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

 

A centenarian is a person who lives to or beyond the age of 100 years. Because life expectancies worldwide are less than 100, the term is associated with extreme longevity. In 2012, the United Nations estimated that there were 316,600 living centenarians worldwide.^[1] As life expectancy is increasing across the world, and the world population has also increased rapidly, the number of centenarians is expected to increase quickly in the future.^[2] According to the UK ONS, one-third of babies born in 2013 in the UK are expected to live to 100.^[3]

 

The Good News!  Look at how many people are over 100 in the USA …..

 

A growing number of Americans are living to age 100. Nationwide, the centenarian population has grown 65.8 percent over the past three decades, from 32,194 people who were age 100 or older in 1980 to 53,364 centenarians in 2010, according to new Census Bureau data.Jan 7, 2013

 

The population of the United States in 2010 was approximately 309 million. Thus, today only 0.0173% of Americans live to 100.

 

The Bad News!   Hmmmmm ….  For John and me this is not looking so good …  Females provide about 83% of Centenarians …..  17% is left for males or 9,072 men of the 53,364 centenarians.

 

US Male odds are 309,000,000 / 9072  = 0.0029%*   ‘Anything is Possible’  ….   but those odd look like a tough challenge.

 

Those of us that are in our 80’s now were born too soon ….  As 1 out of 3 babies born now in UK are expected to live to 100.

 

Japan has 48 centenarians per 100,000 whereas the US has 22 and the UK 21.49 ….  Canada 22.31   …..  Russia sucks at 4.76 (do not move there.)

 

Here is some information on aging:   https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging

 

So what to do to extend life?

 

1.  Move to Japan ….  Odds in Japan are more than twice as good as in the US for humans to make it to 100 years.

 

2. Follow in Caitlyn Jenner’s footsteps and go female ….  Odds are about 5 times better for female than male human to make it to 100 years.

 

What do you think?

 

*

0.0029
95 % CI:	0.0027 to 0.0031
z statistic	174.839
Significance level	P < 0.0001

[Derek Hofmann]

A male born in 1929 had, at birth, a 2% chance of reaching 100. Someone who today is 83-84 has a 7.2% chance, and the odds go up the closer you are to 100: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/aug/04/live-to-100-likely

So I think John can do it.

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello DHofmann and All,

You are correct ............  and perhaps that is a more comfortable way to look at aging ....  I think I am optimistic and even though there is about a 7% chance for John or me to get to 100 (slightly better for John as he is closer to 100) focus on that 7% chance .....   rather than the 93% chance of a dirt bath.before getting to 100.

https://i.imgflip.com/zclj5.jpg

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[Neal Henderson]

Hello Serge Isakov and All,

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!searchin/san-diego-bicyclist-forum/john$20forester$20back$20in$20saddle%7Csort:date/san-diego-bicyclist-forum/EEBmlnto80c/MP2PYOa1YBAJ

 

I may have been recalling reading your forwarded post of Sep in 2011 about John Forester and his ‘Betty Foy’ Rivendell mixte bike and John's attached letter telling about John getting in ten rides and stating in part:  I feel healthier than I have felt in the last ten years.”

John noted that he was concerned with step-over height with his Betty Foy bike ......  with a trike he would not have to worry about that when stopping and starting or falling over if he has balance problems.

 

Perhaps John should consider riding a tricycle bike in light of his disabilities …  I see them about every now and then …  For example ….

 

Here is a sweet one from Walmart for $219.95 and has the advantage that it folds ….  And the rider is quite upright putting little stress on the shoulders .....  with a nice basket for carrying items.

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Kent-Monterey-Adult-Folding-Trike-Red/54988148?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227079656649&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=c&wl3=192133624294&wl4=pla-301724431402&wl5=9031296&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=54988148&wl13=&veh=sem

 

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/f15412e7-0058-4eeb-97ca-91510f731e10_2.d2bb8d27c8b16cb0f457c8cca670e9ea.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF

 

If stamina is a problem John could get an eBike like this ….  Sitting quite upright so no stress on the shoulders.

Here is a recumbent 3 wheeler that has your arms relaxed by your side ….  $399.99 at Walmart

 

However if John goes for a recumbent  .....   he will need to be very careful when not in a bike lane  .......   as it sits so low and he rides so slowly  .........     and it is not especially visible to motorists ....  particularly since John noted that he was "averaging 6 miles and 50 minutes each" for his rides.

What do you think?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Neal

 

+1 mph Faster

[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

If you say that you are not .....   I do not think you are afraid of same directions traffic ....  although it could be considered a mite bit strange that you mention it so much.

When you write stuff like   ........"His essay demonstrates that he is ignorant, frightened, and incompetent, just those qualities typical of Americans regarding cycling."  ...

It is curious ....  I read that you came to America when you were age 11,  are you a British citizen?  Where is the country where cyclists are not ignorant, frightened, and Incompetent?  (in your view?)

I revisited the note your wrote a few years back to Serge and the thread you wrote about fixing and riding your light blue Betty Foy mixte bike on this forum  ......   so I understand that you did not require Serge's assistance to fix it.  After you fixed it how long were you able to cycle?

I also posted a note to Serge about the same and included some thoughts on how a tricycle might fit your needs quite well now  .....   so you could get cycling again and "feel healthier than I have felt in the last ten years."   It seems a goal worth pursuing.

There a some examples posted in this thread of inexpensive trikes in manly colors (orange and red) that would fill the bill nicely and you could be cycling again.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

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[John Forester]

I have ridden different types of recumbent since they first came out, just to see how they are, or, sometimes, to advise the manufacturer. (And high wheelers also.) Supposing that I were not allowed to drive a motor vehicle, I would look for the recumbent I liked best. The manufacturer may well be no longer in business, but I know the characteristics I like. Long wheelbase (to prevent flip over), steering below the saddle. But, I would have to see if I could get away with a tent garage, or, if the city would not agree to that, I would have to move out my larger machine tools to make room for it in the garage. I don't want to do any of these things.

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[Derek Hofmann]

Option #3 is to store it in a cheap used cargo van parked on the street. Just remember to move it every 72 hours!

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-- 
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St, Lemon Grove, CA 91945
619-644-5481, fore...@johnforester.com

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[John Forester]

I came to the USA with my family in February, 1940, when I was 10. My father preceded us because his war plan was to write the news and stories to keep American opinion favorable to the British cause. At first, it was thought we would stay only as long as WWII lasted, but, what with Britain's economic problems and such, and the effect of US schooling, staying in the USA seemed much preferable.

Under the arrangements of that time, I could choose to become an American citizen between my 21 and 22 birthdays, and I did so.

I am a fourth generation British cyclist; there is a family story that my great grandmother rode a bicycle, at that date either a tricycle or a high wheeler. My paternal grandmother received a bicycle, at that date a safety bicycle, as a wedding present.  I have a photograph, a bicycle club group portrait with bicycles, showing my maternal grandparents and great-aunt with husband. I started riding on the streets of London as soon as I could stay up, age 6. (Before that I had strayed away from home, riding a tricycle on the sidewalks, to my paternal grandparents' house. But they weren't home, so I became the subject of a search.) I was taught that all drivers of vehicles (to use the US name) obeyed the same rules and had the same rights.

Upon coming to the USA, my father instructed my mother to find a house in San Francisco, "the only civilized city on the Coast". (Part of my father's work had been in Hollywood, and he didn't like LA at all.) My mother rented a house in the north side of Berkeley, just about 1,000 feet above sea level. I got back to cycling in 1942, I suppose when I could manage the climb from downtown to home. So I descended to school going as fast as the cars, but even climbing back much more slowly I could beat the streetcar, so at the top of the line I could meet a neighbor girl whom I was coaching in physics. At that time I subscribed to the British magazine Cycling, so I read the editorials opposing British motoring's attempt to kick cyclists off some roads.

Neal wonders why I mention the danger of same-direction traffic so much, since it doesn't frighten me. I have to suppose that Neal has not noticed that all of American policy for bicycle transportation and all American special traffic laws for bicyclists are based on the fear of same-direction motor traffic. Maybe he has not noticed this fact because that fear is so pervasive and prevalent that it is just part of the background to any cycling discussion.

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[Serge Issakov]

Like I said, your memory is playing tricks on you, Neal. 

Be careful.  You recalled “a picture (a few years back) of Serge helping you to get your bike in working order”.   You recalled a picture of something that never happened. 

That’s reveals a trait that qualifies one to be president these days. 

Serge

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[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forester and All,

That is good news ....  about the recumbent ....   and you having experience riding one.

I expect there are some models that fold so they do not take up so much room .... and as DHofmann writes ....  using a van (with a ramp) or some other ingenious non conspicuous storage is possible.  Maybe instead of a tent garage ....  just a large crate with siding that looked good with your house so the neighbors would not complain.

Do you do CNC machining?   It looks like some machining is being replaced by 3D digital printing which is great for prototypes ....  but it is too expensive for quantity production unless the part is technically not feasible with CNC milling.    I have some small titanium parts I need machined.  Any recommendations for a shop?

Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

[Neal Henderson]

Hello John Forster and All ....  again ...

You have an interesting story ...  my early life was more rural ....  I lived in Napa, CA out of town near Yountville.   We were next door to a one room 8 grade school ....  up against the hills.   My brother was allergic to cow's milk so we had goats for milk and I raised pheasants, rabbits, and pigeons for my 4H projects.  I hiked the hills with my dog ....  and in the summer we swam in the river.  

WWII was just starting and the fighters from Travis flew down our road so low we could see the pilots.  I was hooked on flying after that.  When I was in the 6th grade we moved much closer to town (about one mile) and I was amazed at the difference in my new school.  My old school had a pot belly wood stove in the center to keep about 14 of us (various grades) warm ....  the new school had steam radiators ...  had 2 floors of classrooms and my 6th grade class there had about 25 students and it had 'real' flush toilets instead of an outhouse and the Montgomery Ward Catalog.

My brothers allergies cleared up and we got a cow that I milked each day and I got a Schwinn bike that I rode to school and later used for my paper route.

We had a neat school system then 6-4-4 plan and for a time a split shift with some students starting early and finishing at noon and others starting at noon and finishing late.   That lasted for a couple of years until the new buildings were finished along with some 'temporary' buildings that are still there.  The 6-4-4 plan was 1 thru 6 grades, then 4 years of middle school, then 2 years of high school and 2 years of college.  With college classes in the same building as the upper division high school classes you could take college classes in high school.

With that system I was able to graduate from high school at 17 with one year of college credit which really helped the budget.  After that I tested and applied for a civil service job as an engineering draftsman trainee at Mare Island Shipyard that was advertised statewide.  The Navy was developing an in house engineering group for building the first nuclear powered subs.  We had half day of classes (which counted for college credit) and did entry level jobs in the different shops in the afternoon....  electrical shop, damage control shop, and so on.  It was a fun job.  I ended up in the patent section doing the pencil drawings for the 'artists' that inked them ....   and it was an art.   If there was one mistake the drawing would be redone.  I never developed the talent to ink a drawing without a mistake but I was good at doing the pencil drawings.

After about a year and a half at Mare Island I moved to Berkeley to live with my aunt and uncle who lived a few blocks from UC,  I got a job in the hod carriers and labor union and went to work for the City of Berkeley.working for my uncle part time  ..... he was the city engineer  ..... digging ditches and pouring concrete while attending UC.  While at UC I tested and got accepted into the Naval Aviation Cadet Program and upon completion became a USMC officer.

After several years in the USMC I went back to school on the GI Bill for about one year and got hired by Northwest Airlines. I worked there (except when furloughed or on military leave) until retirement.   After a period at NWA as a copilot ... I flew Captain on B-707, DC-10, and B-747 for many years....  mostly on international routes.

While at NWA .....  when less pilots were needed  I was furloughed for about a year .....   and also had time off from the airline during strikes .... I used that time working for an inventor (who was also an NWA pilot) designing aircraft parts ,,,, and selling a speed control device ........  and later  I was CEO for a small computer corporation in Redmond, WA for 5 years ....  and had some other business interests. 

I got back into cycling when I was complaining to my copilot about how my knee was barking at me after my long runs.   He suggested new shoes and trying (pun?) the new sport of triathlon where you did 3 sports and less running.  I told him I had not ridden a bike for many years.  He said no sweat you never forget!   So I got a nice old used Celeste color Bianchi and kept it at he NWA Hotel in Narita Japan and later moved it to Honolulu.  (Our middle son has it now restored to pristine original shape)  

I started with some local triathlons and then later the Bud Light Triathlon Series ....  That was probably about 1988 or  so I would be about 55.  One of my training buddies ....  who was sort of coaching me .....  said ......  now don't try to keep up with these young gals ....  and he was not kidding ...   on one of the early races I got the dry heaves at the end or the run ....  and being old ....  the volunteer said ....  are you all right sir?   I guess I looked like I was going to die.  Later with a lot of training I got much better and along with the shorter races started doing Ironman races ....  Germany .....  New Zealand .... Australia .....  Brazil ...... and in the US ..... and had moved from the good old Bianchi, to Trek, to Softride, and now Cervélo.

Looking for transportation solutions that work.

 

http://www.cityam.com/276800/not-so-fast-transport-london-has-been-told-reduce-speed

Excerpts:

 

The new protected cycle lanes that opened last year in London can move five times as many people per hour as a main carriageway lane in the most congested parts of our city. At peak times, the new cycling infrastructure moves an average of 46% of people along the route despite occupying only 30% of the equivalent road space. Just two weeks after opening, the east-west and north-south cycle superhighway roads were moving 5% more people per hour than they could without cycle lanes – and that number is increasing as more cyclists are attracted to the routes.

Consultations on plans for two new major cycle routes, CS4 and CS9 so far suggest that the most effective way to get more people cycling is by building protected lanes on main roads. These break down a crucial barrier for those people who don’t cycle because they don’t feel safe. The results of this success benefit everyone – whether or not they cycle themselves.

Overall, the numbers of people using these new protected routes has grown by a phenomenal 50% in some cases, proving that it’s not the English weather that’s stopping people cycling but the traffic-dominated nature of most of London’s roads. In total, more than half a million kilometres are ridden by cyclists on the average day within central London, a rise of 7% in three years.