Bronze Port Lights

[Anne Baptista]

We have a 1983 Passport 40. We have replaced all of the bronze port light glass/ Lexan with great success. My next step Is to remove the bronze rings / flange around the port lights to caulk and re-bed. Outside being the priority then inside if needed. Has anyone have any tips and how difficult the process is?

[Rob Raymond]

I don't think you should need to remove and re-caulk the whole port, removing and re-calking the outside rings should be enough. On our P40 the ports are glassed in, it wold have been a big job to remove them! You have to very careful removing the rings, they like to bend. A bit of heat will help them release. The fiberglass will have to be drilled out and filled with thickened epoxy for any screws that don't bite anymore, but one a P40 that should be very few.

You replaced the port light with Lexan? Safety glass was what was in our boat so that's what we replaced them with... medium neutral brown.

Rob Raymond

S/V Azura Kai

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Anne Baptista <abblit...@gmail.com> wrote:

We have a 1983 Passport 40. We have replaced all of the bronze port light glass/ Lexan with great success.  My next step Is  to remove the bronze rings / flange around the port lights to caulk and re-bed.  Outside being the priority then inside if needed. Has anyone have any tips and how difficult the process is?

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[Jeff and Jane Woodward]

Hi Anne,

We attempted to remove the portlight frames on Adagio without success.  We worked on two of them.  Both were mudded in.  Meaning they were firmly affixed to the sides of the house with some sort of resin.  We tried heat, solvents, wedges and brute force.  We stopped trying to remove them after the laminate on the interior of the cabin was split open at both portlights.

The reason for our attempt to remove the portlight frames was to stop water intrusion into the cabin from around the portlights.  We were able to stop the leaks by caulking under the exterior bronze rings.  We also removed all the wood screw fasteners and replaced them with machine screws.  Finding oval head bronze machine screws was difficult.  I think we finally found some online in England.   I forget the source.  It was 10 years ago now.  Wood screws exert a wedge like force opening up the plywood core of the cabin side.  This creates a route for water to follow into the wood and into the boat where it can do ugly stuff.  Machine screws exert a pure tension force and do not open up the wood.  To switch from wood screws to machine screws you need to remove all the wood screws.  Overdrill the holes.  And fill the holes with thickened epoxy.  After the epoxy has cured, drill and tap the epoxy for the machine screws.  The epoxy seals all sides of the fastener hole and stops water intrusion.  

Good Luck.  I hope this helps.

Jeff and Janie

Adagio, P-40 #109, 1986

Marina San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico

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From: passpor...@googlegroups.com <passpor...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Baptista <abblit...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 5:05 AM
To: Passport Owners
Subject: [Passport] Bronze Port Lights

 

We have a 1983 Passport 40. We have replaced all of the bronze port light glass/ Lexan with great success.  My next step Is  to remove the bronze rings / flange around the port lights to caulk and re-bed.  Outside being the priority then inside if needed. Has anyone have any tips and how difficult the process is? 

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[Anne Baptista]

Rob,

Thanks for the response. I can completely understand not taking the whole port out.  This discussion as to what to do has led me to concluded that the best course of action at the moment is to not remove the rings, but to caulk were the rings meet the fiberglass. In addition try to put a bead of caulk where the flange meets the sill of port.  We will see. 

We would have preferred safety glass, but being  in Trinidad we replaced with what we could find.  

Annie Baptista

s/v Little Wing

Passport 40

[Anne Baptista]

Jeff and Jane,

Thanks for the quick response. Our goal is also to slow or stop the water infiltration that seeps in. We have done extensive work to prevent water from entering below and this is the last to accomplish.  

The discussion of what it will take to release the outside flange/ ring with the original mastics that was used maybe a bit to much to tackle at the moment. We hope to just caulk where the flange meets the fiberglass and then caulk where the flange meets the sill. 

I will keep your suggestions on file. It is amazing that all of these early Passport 40's has such individual components.  But we love our boat.

Annie Baptista

s/v Little Wing

Passport 40

[Kevin]

Annie,

We also have a 1983 P40 (#45) and likely many of the same challenges you're facing.  We did have to completely remove one port light - the one on the starboard side over the nav table - because of extensive water intrusion and a lot of rot.  It isn't a project I want to repeat.  Suffice it to say that the builder had no thought of the port lights coming out.  We've also removed several of the outer bronze flanges and as others mentioned drilled out the old screw holes, filled with thickened epoxy, drilled and tapped for new machine screws and rebedded the flanges.  On Casi Cielo, our P40, we used butyl tape for the bedding and have been pleased with the results - no water.

Good luck with the project.

Kevin Muilman

[Tim Bowie]

I removed all the port lights which included removing the outside ring and the port light frame on our Passport 40.  I used a putty knife to remove the outside ring, take your time so that you don't bend it.  To remove the frame pound in a very thin but stiff putty knife between the frame and the fiberglass.  Use the thin stiff bladed putty knife made by Hyde, a flexible thin blade will not work.  If I was unable to get the putty knife in I used a multipurpose tool to open up a slot.  Use the multipurpose tool very sparingly, you do not want to remove any more of the epoxy than necessary.  You want to preserve the existing epoxy as much as possible to keep a tight fit for reassembly.  Once I got going it took about an hour per port light to remove both the outer ring and inner frame. 

 

Once you have the frames out you might as well replace the seals between the window frame  and the internal frame.  The internal frames and windows frames usually have bow in them that can cause leaks.  To replace the seals, do a test fit of the seal first by placing the seal in the window frame with 4200 then reassemble and lightly tighten.  Check for gaps between the seal and the window frame.  If there are any gaps, pull the seal up and add more sealant under the gap section.  Then reassemble and lightly tighten, if there are no gaps clean up the extra sealant  and let the sealant cure while under light tension.  This is a very messy task, wear gloves and have lots of paper towels.

 

To reassemble the port lights use 4200 adhesive sealant on both the frame and ring, be generous with the 4200. If the 4200 does not ooze out from all the seams you have not used enough.  Test fit all the screws prior to reassembly.  If a screw does not hold use toothpicks in the hole to fill the gap.   Make sure you place 4200 in all the screw holes prior to reassembly.  The 4200 will hold the ring and frame in place once cured, the screws are only needed to hold the frame and ring in place while the 4200 cures.  On the long port light with the teak frame use Dow Corning 795 to seal the Plexiglas, 4200 will not work.  It would be of help to have a helper when you install the long port light, by the time you are finished applying the sealant you may go beyond the working time if you do it by yourself. 

 

If you have questions let me know and good luck,

Tim

S/V Osprey Passport 40

[Daniel Leach]

Does anyone have a good outline for the process to replace the safety glass in the opening portlights.  Many on our 1985 P40 are in need of replacement, and I'm not sure about the process.

Dan Leach

Endless Song

Anacortes, WA

[Matthew Davidson]

Wow.. well written Tim. I would only add... a heat gun to a putty knife is a beautiful thing... a super thin - very hot knife makes inserting into a tight spots way easier with less chance of bending the frames. I put the heat to the putty knife... get it hot as all get out then and insert... it will typically slide all of the way in. I used a 2" wide knife. This Made removing the Cleat Chocks through the Bullwark very easy. 

To get the glass out from the hold down frame... I used a healthy wetting of MEK on teh old adhesive around the port glass... it softened bond so I could get a very thin 1" wide knife worked into and around between the glass and the hold down frame... requies a very thin hot knife and a ton of patience to let the MEK work. Be careful... MEK is really bad stuff. Must wear Chlorobuty gloves and a mask... don't use the cheap throw away gloves. 

I'm still looking for a port window that will match the same hinge CL to CL of our P40 frame. The one Kenyon sent me off of his P42 did not have the same hinge CL to CL alignment. If anyone has a spare or take-off unit... I'd really like ot talk to see it it will fit our frame. 

Matthew

SV Wildflower P40

206-660-1311

[Daniel Leach]

So we news to replaced the safety glass in our opening put lights. I know we can get them off punching the pin. Any one know good glass company in Western Washington state that can replace the glass? We're in Anacortes. There are auto glass guys around, but I thought some one might have better lead.

Dan Leach
Endless Song, P40, hull #82

[Rob Raymond]

Any glass shop should be able to make them. We are fortunate to have an excellent local one that we've used for years. After removing the glass I took the best two to the shop and they color match and cut them for less than $200 CAD.

BTW, since we were replacing the glass I didn't worry too much damaging the lenses, which are easily cracked with heat. To remove the glass retaining rings I heated the rings with a propane torch until the caulking just started to smoke and they just lifted off. Any force at all will bend them.

Finished product anxiously awaiting their return to the boat

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[Matthew Davidson]

We are replaceing the glass on ours as well since the glass seals are leaking. So far we have 4 done... 6 to go. Got our glass cut at White Center Glass & Upholstery in the Hood of Seattle. Very-light smoke tint Safety Glass. Cost came out $158 for 8ea pieces. They had to cut glass twice as the 1st batch had corners wrong. The new cuts are great. Tip: Not only does the fit into the port recess have to be fairly close tolerance... you have to check to see if the glass is not cut too big to fit inside the raised perimeter of the retaining ring!!! This is kind of important to check before you leave the glass shop... other wise you may find out the asssembly is way too high to fit into the Port...  

We set the glass with Chemlink-Clear. Super good stuff. Going to try dry fit of soft soft durometer gasket material I found at Gardico Rubber in Seattle. The old hollow gaskets are completely shot. Any suggestions on gasket source would be very helpful? So far I have not found the perfect source!

Matthew

SV Wildflower P40

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 10:38:57 AM UTC-8, Rob Raymond wrote:

Any glass shop should be able to make them. We are fortunate to have an excellent local one that we've used for years. After removing the glass I took the best two to the shop and they color match and cut them for less than $200 CAD.

BTW, since we were replacing the glass I didn't worry too much damaging the lenses, which are easily cracked with heat. To remove the glass retaining rings I heated the rings with a propane torch until the caulking just started to smoke and they just lifted off. Any force at all will bend them.

Finished product anxiously awaiting their return to the boat

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Daniel Leach <danle...@gmail.com> wrote:

So we news to replaced the safety glass in our opening put lights. I know we can get them off punching the pin. Any one know good glass company in Western Washington state that can replace the glass? We're in Anacortes. There are auto glass guys around, but I thought some one might have better lead.

Dan Leach
Endless Song, P40, hull #82

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[Rob Raymond]

We used Wefco profile 375.0 (click on the picture for a list of profiles), flat side out for window seals. It was a perfect fit. In October and November we had something like 54 days of rain, so far so good.

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[Matthew Davidson]

Rob... I come up with ideas that you have already figured out! I love this!!!

I ordered 50 ' of the Wefco Profile 375.0 yesterday. going to keep it around in case my 3/8" soft trial material doesn't workout. Thanks so much for the feed back on your source. 

I am in the process of mounting our Genoa Tracks onto the raised G10 pads. 

Matthew

[Rob Raymond]

Finding seals was a real PITA. I tried solid neoprene, it was way to firm. Then I tried neoprene foam, which kept the rain out, but I was concerned green water would be able to force it's way past the seals. When I was getting ready to replace the glass in the ports I was fortunate to come across Wefco.

For some of the jobs we've done on our boat I've spent more time sourcing parts than doing the work!

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[Chandler Clark]

Would anyone like a set that needs to be refurbished?

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-5, Anne Baptista wrote:

[Brian McCann]

Hey Chandler,

I am interested. Where are you located?

-Brian

Brian

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[John Baudendistel]

Hi there.  I can use 4.  Let me know.  

Thanks.  John 

jo...@ets247.com

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Thanks, 

John Baudendistel

jo...@ets247.com

[Chandler Clark]

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-5, Anne Baptista wrote:

[John Baudendistel]

Hi Clark.  

I have not done so but have heard and read the following.  Tape all around the port lights with blue tape to protect the fiberglass.  Likely 2 layers.  Use a 3inOne tool with a sharp beveledge.  Gentley hammer the tool into the edge until it begins to lift.  It will likely take many to get the port light to lift off.  Use the 3inOne tools which have the steel all the way through.  Some have also applied heat with a propane torch to melt and or break the seal.  Lots of patience is needed.  Search this forum and you will likely find the write ups.  Good luck!.  

John B. 

P42.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Chandler Clark <c...@signaturecanvasmakers.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-5, Anne Baptista wrote:

We have a 1983 Passport 40. We have replaced all of the bronze port light glass/ Lexan with great success.  My next step Is  to remove the bronze rings / flange around the port lights to caulk and re-bed.  Outside being the priority then inside if needed. Has anyone have any tips and how difficult the process is?  

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[Matthew Davidson]

I used a very thin putty knife and a heat gun on the knife to make it hot as all get out... it was very easy to get off the ring without bending the ring. The bad news for you is if you are not repainting... you have to be super careful to not damage your cabin truck paint. Whatever you do... heat will be your friend. 

Matthew

Matthew A Davidson - Mat...@AntecCorporation.com
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(Office) 425-888-9090, (Cell) 206-660-1311, (Fax) 425-888-6492  ,

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On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:44 AM, John Baudendistel <jo...@ets247.com> wrote:

Hi Clark.  

I have not done so but have heard and read the following.  Tape all around the port lights with blue tape to protect the fiberglass.  Likely 2 layers.  Use a 3inOne tool with a sharp beveledge.  Gentley hammer the tool into the edge until it begins to lift.  It will likely take many to get the port light to lift off.  Use the 3inOne tools which have the steel all the way through.  Some have also applied heat with a propane torch to melt and or break the seal.  Lots of patience is needed.  Search this forum and you will likely find the write ups.  Good luck!.  

John B. 

P42.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Chandler Clark <c...@signaturecanvasmakers.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-5, Anne Baptista wrote:

We have a 1983 Passport 40. We have replaced all of the bronze port light glass/ Lexan with great success.  My next step Is  to remove the bronze rings / flange around the port lights to caulk and re-bed.  Outside being the priority then inside if needed. Has anyone have any tips and how difficult the process is?  

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Thanks, 

John Baudendistel

jo...@ets247.com

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[lanie...@verizon.net]

Here is the reply from Jonathin Keithline jonkei...@aol.com  He is doing all of the restoration on my Passport 40 and recently replaced the glass in our ports.

"Not extremely difficult. Except all the frames of the windows were built badly and rotten. So the window pull out project turned into a framing fix. This part of the passport I was not impressed with. Where there was  a one inch gap between the port and the actual boat. They filled with some kind of bondo. Make sure you mark which window goes where the inside frame is different on each one. If you don't mark which goes where you'll be juggling windows back and forth too see which fits best where. And same thing gos with frames they all match a certain port."

Richard

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-5, Anne Baptista wrote:

[Rob Raymond]

Hey Richard, I guess it's too late to get him to stop. A one inch gap is crazy! Our ports are glassed in, but there is only about 1/4" gap.

With the money you're going to spend on getting someone else to re-glaze ports that don't fit, it would be better to buy some slightly larger Newfound Metal ports and re-cut the openings for a better fit.

Rob

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